Judicial Security, AI, and What’s Really at Stake for the Federal Bar – 2026 ALPS Bar Leaders Retreat

Episode Notes

Transcript

Kevin Maxim [00:00:00 – 00:00:19]

all of us, all ages, uh, no matter how many years we’ve been practicing, continuing legal education, particularly in the, in the realm of technology, is going to be vital, uh, for a law firm to serve their clients well and compete with other, uh, providers out there.

Marc Raco [00:00:23 – 00:01:18]

Welcome to another edition in our ongoing series of Conversations recorded on location in Missoula, Montana at the Alps Insurance Retreat for bar leaders. I’m Marc Raco. Glad to have you here as we talk with Kevin Maxim. He is the national president-elect for the Federal Bar Association. He’s also a principal of the Maxim Law Firm in Atlanta, Georgia, a commercial litigator focused on business disputes, contracts, fraud, real estate insurance, and restrictive covenant litigation. And Kevin is a longtime Federal Bar Association national leader, including board service, general counsel, treasurer, and now president-elect. And he is also the former president of the FBA Atlanta chapter. I know we have a lot to talk about with him, so let’s do that now.

Marc Raco [00:01:19 – 00:01:56]

Kevin, thanks so much for joining here in beautiful Missoula, Montana, at the Alps Insurance Retreat for Bar Leaders, which you certainly are one. So tell me, this particular city is at the intersection of 5 different mountain ranges. I find that so fascinating. So maybe we could lead off. What are you working in your leadership at the intersection of yourself? What are all the different places, the connective tissue where you live as a leader in the Federal Bar Association?

Kevin Maxim [00:01:57 – 00:02:40]

So I think that, well, first, thank you for having me, Mark. It is indeed wonderful to be here in Missoula and it’s kind of ALPS to host us all and allow these connections to be made. I think I would, to answer your question, I would look at our constituency and who our members are. We are a national organization, and our members are judges, private practitioners, clerks of court, and law students. And so each has different interests and focuses. And from a customer service perspective, as an association serving their needs, we need to be mindful of that. And I think those would be our mountain ranges and where they intersect. And it’s just a wonderful spot to be in, just like Missoula.

Marc Raco [00:02:41 – 00:03:03]

There you go. Beautifully, beautifully done. All right, so I liked a little Talk a little bit about the current environment within the membership that you have, and that’s a reflection of a large part of the overall legal profession. What do you feel the nature of current professional satisfaction and well-being is across your constituency?

Kevin Maxim [00:03:03 – 00:03:59]

So I certainly can’t speak for everyone, but I think particularly those of us who practiced pre-COVID, know that a Zoom conference— we have a lot of them because we have volunteer members across the country who need to get together and accomplish things, but it’s not the same. I just remember that cold feeling of clicking out of a Zoom conference and say, wait a minute, I didn’t get a chance to meet Mark and learn about his story and make those connections among our members. So I think that’s something that maybe all of us as attorneys struggle with a little bit. As we’re having more and more court hearings online, it’s just harder and harder to get people together and to meet and sit down and break bread. I had a friend who said he loved getting together with other attorneys pre-COVID. He thought after COVID, these lunch meetings would start back up. And he said they kind of haven’t. So there’s a little bit of sadness.

Kevin Maxim [00:03:59 – 00:04:09]

And I think we all need to work better at that interpersonal connection and getting to know people, because I’m not sure that the computer does that for us.

Marc Raco [00:04:10 – 00:04:52]

How do you look at your own responsibility as a leader to drive that connection, to facilitate opportunities for that connection so that it isn’t lost and you’re leading in a way that’s saying this is important? Because someone pointed out the other day that it’s like you might get an email, let’s say, and you’re going to read the tone of that email Based on knowing that person. If they’re basically a stranger, you might assume it’s adversarial, let’s say. But if you know what that person’s like, you go, oh no, I understand the tone and intent of this, and I’m going to consider that in the way I, you know, weight their offer or, you know, what their communication is.

Kevin Maxim [00:04:53 – 00:05:51]

So how are you thinking about your need and how you’re thinking about going about trying to Others in my organization are probably tired of hearing me say this, but my philosophy is we’re a service organization and we have a chapter meeting in Atlanta. It’s maybe at a courthouse or at some other space. The most important person in the room is the person that you’ve never seen before, right? We’ve all been there when you— I call them conversation circles. Friends tend to get in these conversation circles. And if you come to a meeting and you don’t know anybody, Those are difficult to break into, just sort of psychologically. So I think it’s so important to reach out to that person. When I’ve done that, that person, or invite them to the circle, you’d be surprised who you’d meet. And to break that barrier, to welcome them to the organization and to begin inviting them into friendships is such an important part of what we do.

Kevin Maxim [00:05:51 – 00:05:57]

And I think it It’s a value that we provide. We can’t forget about that person we haven’t seen before as we’re catching up with old friends.

Marc Raco [00:05:58 – 00:06:40]

It’s important too, connecting with people for so many reasons. But one of it is we are in a particular moment of a lot of attack on the rule of law, and we’re in a situation where the political environment is affecting a lot of decision-making, especially with judges and so forth. So Having people to reflect with, to bounce ideas off, to get their thoughts on it so you’re not operating in an echo chamber. How do you see the career outlook and professional direction that your members— what are they thinking about right now? What’s on their minds in terms of what’s ahead?

Kevin Maxim [00:06:40 – 00:07:43]

I’ve got kind of a philosophy, particularly when it comes to politics and all the things going on in Washington and the fantastic articles written by different newspapers around the country. Digging into issues. I have a feeling most of America are just trying to make a living and trying to do their jobs well. I think a lot of people, including attorneys, are so busy with what they do, they can’t keep up. They certainly can’t keep up with all the information. But I can tell you this, that I think that there is a peace of mind in our organization and other bar associations that our courts, our justice system, is a solution to many of these issues that we face. And it is our hope that the courts will get this right in our balances of power and where authority lies. And, you know, there are unanswered questions in our democracy, and sometimes they need to be run up through the courts to answer some of those questions for us.

Kevin Maxim [00:07:43 – 00:07:50]

I think there is some satisfaction and some hope that our courts are front and center part of that process.

Marc Raco [00:07:51 – 00:08:07]

What’s your take on what your members are thinking about in terms of the workload they’re facing and the way they— the realities of their business, the operations considerations that they’re thinking about right now?

Kevin Maxim [00:08:08 – 00:09:32]

I think everybody is intrigued and afraid of AI to some degree. There will be a time when AI has a much more prominent role in what we’re doing, perhaps even with the courts. We’ve always used, well, in my years of practicing, we’ve always used some search engines, right? We’ve gotten into legal research online and search words. And so AI is not entirely different from those processes. It just brings a lot more to us in human phrasing that is awfully persuasive sometimes. And so I think all of us as practitioners are wondering, where is this going to go? Where is this going to play out? Where will the human element remain essential in the process? I’m kind of curious as to some point whether it becomes a tool of the judiciary as well, who are often far overburdened in workload and caseload, how they might be able to employ it to still ensure just ends, but to make the justice system work more efficiently. I think there’s a lot of promise in it, But we’re still pretty early in the development.

Marc Raco [00:09:33 – 00:10:17]

Now, I don’t think this is the kind of thing you leave it up, I assume, and say, well, we’ll see what happens and how it develops and unfolds, and we’ll live with that reality. I would think the chair that you sit in and the opportunity that the Federal Bar has to lead that result is important power, important responsibility. How are you thinking about that in terms of not just reacting to however things unfold? with AI, but to, again, using the word shepherd, understanding and possibility and also education about risk mitigation and so forth. How are you thinking about playing that role?

Kevin Maxim [00:10:17 – 00:11:00]

I think our organization and how it’s structured and whom we serve, the answer is pretty easy to that. And that is we are going to listen to the federal judiciary as to what will be acceptable and what is not, and we will support that position. I don’t look to us as any type of pioneering organization in the AI realm. That’s going to be— we have too many volunteers that need to focus on other things, right? As opposed to making a push for AI. There’ll be other forces that do that. But in the final analysis, it’ll be the courts that decide What will be acceptable and what will not be.

Marc Raco [00:11:00 – 00:11:03]

What are some of those other things that are on your radar as priorities?

Kevin Maxim [00:11:04 – 00:11:42]

So we are set up through chapters. They’re sort of our lifeblood. We have about 100 chapters around the country who serve their local courts, local federal courts and districts, and they do a lot there locally. Many of them have events that provide continuing legal education. Sometimes that the court has asked them to to bring to the local practitioners. We celebrate our new judges, our incoming federal law clerks. We memorialize those who are no longer with us. We put on civics programs throughout the country.

Kevin Maxim [00:11:43 – 00:12:26]

So often I hear from judges the disappointment that we don’t have civics education like we used to, and so. I think the federal courts, for one, feel it’s crucially important that our young people learn something about civics and how our 3 branches of government are supposed to operate. And so we do that on a local level. Then on the national level, we have sections and divisions who focus on practice areas. We have a Judiciary Division. We have a Young Lawyers Division. Each of them have interests that Career goals, things that we can do to support them, including on Capitol Hill. We have a Capitol Hill day, and that’s one of the most exciting things we do.

Kevin Maxim [00:12:27 – 00:12:58]

We go up to Capitol Hill, about 150 volunteers last March. We had 200 meetings with congresspeople. We talked about things like the budget for federal courts, judicial security, judicial vacancies, and by doing so, we not only serve. our judges and our courts, but our practitioners as well who are practicing in these environments and clients, you know, our Americans who are sometimes long in a queue waiting for a justice to be done. We want to help with that process as best we can.

Marc Raco [00:12:59 – 00:13:27]

When you go up to Capitol Hill, do you feel like the leadership there is listening? Are they interested in what you have to say, or are they going through the motions? Now, I know you have to be careful with your answer, probably politically yourself, but I’m I’m curious if you feel that there’s a receptiveness. I don’t mean this on a political— through a political lens. Like, this is an important tool for you when you go up there. Is your message getting across?

Kevin Maxim [00:13:28 – 00:14:19]

I do believe so. And one of the factors that I look at is when we schedule these meetings every year, we get to know the staffer and sometimes we get to know the congressperson. And once you start building those relationships, Yeah, after we see them year after year and we talk about maybe some nuances that have changed, maybe we have some new issues on the agenda, they do sit and listen with us and they do pay attention. And we have follow-up questions and we will communicate with them throughout the year regarding issues that are of concern to the federal courts. I’ve actually had some staffers say, thank you for coming up here, because for one of the 3 branches of government, We never— no one ever comes to talk to us about the federal courts. So I think we, we, we are filling that role. We’re doing it every year. We’re following up.

Kevin Maxim [00:14:19 – 00:14:24]

We’re forming those friendships. And hopefully together we can better serve the judicial system.

Marc Raco [00:14:25 – 00:14:26]

That’s fantastic.

Kevin Maxim [00:14:26 – 00:14:26]

All right.

Marc Raco [00:14:26 – 00:14:51]

So let’s switch topics a little bit. Let’s talk about the risks that are out there right now. Everything from cybersecurity to succession planning, issues to operational issues, and then of course technology and everything in between. What are the risks out there that the Federal Bar Association is most thinking about?

Kevin Maxim [00:14:51 – 00:15:31]

I would say judicial security. I have to respect the courage of our judges who are serving at this time. They— and I’m not a criminal law attorney. So I’m not even in there for some of the most sensitive and dangerous cases that they see. But, you know, they have difficult decisions to make. Not everybody’s happy with those decisions. So judicial security absolutely must be a priority because, uh, we want to have the best minds on the bench. And if they are getting threatened, uh, and don’t feel safe, That’s going to be a problem for our democracy.

Kevin Maxim [00:15:31 – 00:15:36]

So that is of utmost concern. And it’s definitely a point that we make on Capitol Hill Day.

Marc Raco [00:15:36 – 00:16:37]

And, you know, let’s not, let’s not forget, these are just regular human beings living their lives in these positions, in these roles. They are— they can be afraid. They may decide to still persevere and do their job and do it well. But it doesn’t mean they don’t have feelings about it. And, and for them and their families and their staffs. As well as how can it not affect psychologically you and the way you go about your job and how fearless you go about it? So are you finding that most of the people in this kind of position, Kevin, are saying, I have an important role to play and I’m going to play it and trust the people around me to deliver the security that I need? reduce that risk, or is this meaningfully affecting the sense of job satisfaction and longevity of people in these roles?

Kevin Maxim [00:16:38 – 00:17:27]

Yeah, I don’t, I don’t have any direct knowledge of how it’s affecting any particular judge on the bench. But based on what we hear, what we read, as you said, they’re human beings. And they have families, they have a life outside the courtroom. And absolutely, it has to, it has to be affecting how they go about their days and, and just being concerned about being safe. I have had judges tell me that they’ve told their children, you don’t answer the door to strangers anymore. We can’t do that anymore. It’s a shame that we’ve gotten to that. But that’s how, that’s how you protect yourselves these days with unknown threats out there.

Marc Raco [00:17:28 – 00:18:06]

Even more important to have a community around you like the Bar of that support system and people you can talk this through with and find out the experiences of others, find out you’re not alone perhaps, and get input and ideas on how to make, you know, make your environment safer and to think about the things maybe haven’t occurred to you yet. Right. What kind of practice control do you think people across the federal bar have been thinking about or putting into practice in recent times within their own practices? The actual control over the way their practice operates? Let’s take it from that standpoint operationally.

Kevin Maxim [00:18:06 – 00:18:25]

So my sense is there are a couple of areas that are of key concern right now. Cybersecurity is such a huge concern of practitioners. Daily, I will get some fake requests, fake phishing emails.

Marc Raco [00:18:26 – 00:18:27]

Targets by nature.

Kevin Maxim [00:18:27 – 00:18:27]

Yes.

Marc Raco [00:18:27 – 00:18:29]

In their role, they’re targets.

Kevin Maxim [00:18:29 – 00:18:30]

Correct.

Marc Raco [00:18:31 – 00:18:33]

And by virtue of the people they’re serving are targets.

Kevin Maxim [00:18:33 – 00:19:00]

Right. And I do believe that law firms are a target. Money flows through there. Sensitive information flows through there. So yes, we are constantly under attack. from hacking attempts. That’s just the reality of what we do. And so those of us who manage law firms need to keep up with what best practices are and educate our young people about these threats.

Kevin Maxim [00:19:00 – 00:19:32]

I think as I see my own young people and the many apps that they have and the comfort that they have with their phones and the applications that they’re accessing, Those, we need to be a little bit more circumspect when we’re in a law firm environment. I think I’m gonna bring it back to AI, that young people are much more comfortable with having computer assistance in how they write and how they form articles and things like that.

Marc Raco [00:19:32 – 00:19:32]

It’s the world they know.

Kevin Maxim [00:19:33 – 00:20:25]

It is. And so there is a little bit of a transition between those older members of the bar who are much more used to organically writing things. And now we’re working with, and our future is with these young people who are much more comfortable with computer-aided writing and editing. And so we need to work together to find the best solution there and how best to serve our clients. And AI may be a very important part of that. I think it gets back to All of us, all ages, no matter how many years we’ve been practicing, continuing legal education, particularly in the realm of technology, is going to be vital for a law firm to serve their clients well and compete with other providers out there.

Marc Raco [00:20:25 – 00:21:36]

The younger generation is looking at their information as currency they can spend if they can get something sufficient out of it. They’ll spend that currency, whereas the previous generations, there was no amount that you could pay me to give that out, basically. Right. How do you, as particularly the Federal Bar, think about, you know, eventually there will be a younger generation moving in and, and taking over that membership over time? Coming with them is a different perspective on protecting information. They may be able to rationally understand the importance of protecting it, but they’re coming in with an entirely different paradigm about, is it important? When is it important? How do you think about rolling with the reality of that change and making adjustments versus pushing back on that and trying to educate? on the importance and hoping to preserve as much consideration of security needs and protection and vigilance as possible?

Kevin Maxim [00:21:38 – 00:22:54]

Yeah, I think our profession is unique in that— maybe not unique. We’re part of a handful of professions where those communications between client and professional are sacrosanct and need to be protected as such. And so I’m curious about AI and large language models. Where are they drawing their information about the legal world from? If there is someone who accidentally uploads attorney-client communications, for instance, into an AI database, um, there are going to be ramifications to that. And I suspect it’s happening as we speak. Like, so there needs to be an effort to wall off any information that a law firm has that they are going to later process through some AI support for feedback and output and making sure that no one else in the world has access to that data and that information. I hope that’s what these providers are thinking about as well to protect us. But we need to be careful about that and trust but verify.

Marc Raco [00:22:55 – 00:23:15]

So given this, what do you think some of the resources going forward that law firms and legal professionals, particularly those within your bar, have to be thinking about investing in and implementing in order to meet all of these different responsibilities.

Kevin Maxim [00:23:16 – 00:24:00]

All of us will eventually have some access and find some utility in AI. Not all of us are there yet. Not all of us need it yet. But it’s certainly something we’ll all need to be paying attention to. As we talked earlier, young people are very comfortable with it. And it can actually enhance our practices to better serve our clients, better make a living, but it’s gonna take an investment. And we’re such an— in such an early phase of AI, I wonder about whether we’re sort of at loss leader pricing. And once everyone needs it, we’ll start seeing the price go up and that’ll be a larger part of our budget.

Marc Raco [00:24:01 – 00:24:02]

You got us now.

Kevin Maxim [00:24:02 – 00:24:13]

Yes, exactly. So that’s something we’ll all just have to be mindful of. But there seems to be enough competition out there that, Hopefully it’ll be affordable for all practitioners.

Marc Raco [00:24:13 – 00:24:26]

What’s on your mind right now in your position within the Federal Bar? Like, if you were to leave us with a final thought, like, here’s what’s on my mind, what I’m thinking about, what I’m leading with right now, what is that?

Kevin Maxim [00:24:26 – 00:25:09]

Our organization is a service organization, and I view leading the organization as simply another opportunity to serve. an important one, one that comes with it a lot of goodwill that has been built up over nearly 100 presidents of our organization. But I need— I take that very seriously, and I will— I look forward to deploying that goodwill, generating that goodwill, and I hope that after a year’s service, the organization will be better off and we will have stronger connections among our members. And we’ll provide better value for all of them. I think that’s something we’re all thinking about, and hopefully we succeed in that.

Marc Raco [00:25:10 – 00:25:39]

Thank you. So speaking of service, you know, here we are at the ALPS Insurance Retreat for Bar Leaders. You know, ALPS, as an example, is a partner to a lot of people here, not just as a vendor, if you will, of insurance products and risk mitigation, but a partner in their success. How do you view companies like ALPS as A necessary partner in your own success, either for the bar or just as, as an attorney yourself?

Kevin Maxim [00:25:40 – 00:26:19]

I think ALPS does a great job of understanding its market and, and who’s out there and, and what issues they’re facing. They can be a resource for practitioners regarding risk mitigation, what’s out there, what they’re seeing, what types of claims they’re seeing. And I think also when it comes to technology, different products that are out there, they seem to take that role very seriously as being sort of a resource hub for not just insurance needs, but other needs of the practitioner. And I think that’s a great spot to be in and one that should be very attractive to practitioners out there.

Marc Raco [00:26:20 – 00:26:23]

Great, thanks. Okay, last question, I promise. Favorite ice cream?

Kevin Maxim [00:26:25 – 00:26:30]

Wow, that’s a great— probably coffee ice cream, maybe a gelato, just ice cream. We’re talking gelato possibly too.

Marc Raco [00:26:31 – 00:26:36]

Very nice. I had a cold brew ice cream yesterday. So, you know, coffee but cold brew.

Kevin Maxim [00:26:36 – 00:26:36]

Right.

Marc Raco [00:26:36 – 00:26:37]

It was good.

Kevin Maxim [00:26:37 – 00:26:39]

And is that one of your favorites as well?

Marc Raco [00:26:39 – 00:26:57]

I’ll be honest with you, it’s unfair of me to say this after asking you that question, but I’m not sure I have a favorite ice cream. It’s whatever I feel in the moment. You know, I’m actually more of a I guess we’ll go with mint chocolate chip, but I like me a good root beer ice cream, which you don’t see very often.

Kevin Maxim [00:26:57 – 00:26:57]

No, you don’t.

Marc Raco [00:26:57 – 00:26:59]

It’s a great ice cream.

Kevin Maxim [00:26:59 – 00:27:00]

There’s a market niche for you.

Marc Raco [00:27:00 – 00:27:02]

All right, thank you very much, Kevin.

Kevin Maxim [00:27:02 – 00:27:03]

Thank you, Marc. Have a good day.

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