Olympic Lawyer on Competition, Law Firm Growth, and the Rule of Law

Episode Notes

Transcript

Gyi Tsakalakis:

Welcome to Lunch Hour Legal Marketing. I’m Gyi from AttorneySync and I am wearing my hot custom lunch hour legal marketing Nike hoodie gear today.

Conrad Saam:

That’s high end, dude. We’re going high end at lunch hour legal marketing.

Gyi Tsakalakis:

Well, I just bought a patch and now my wife makes fun of me because I’m putting these patches on all my stuff, so I’m sweating out.

Conrad Saam:

Is it an iron on patch?

Gyi Tsakalakis:

It’s an iron on patch.

Conrad Saam:

Why are you laughing? I love that. That’s great. That’s a commitment.

Gyi Tsakalakis:

It’s

Conrad Saam:

Not a

Gyi Tsakalakis:

Velcro,

Conrad Saam:

Right? It’s not a pin.

Gyi Tsakalakis:

Hey, you know what? We’re here at Lunchchar Legal Marketing. We are on budget, and so it’s cheaper for me to turn my Nike sweatshirts into Lunch Our Legal Marketing Gear than to buy one for every day of the week.

Conrad Saam:

And I’m Conrad Saam from Mockingbirden. I am deliberately wearing a Dropkick Murphy’s shirt to foreshadow our guest who is coming to us from the state of Minnesota. Drop Kick Murphys are playing at a charity concert in support of Alex Peretti and Renee Goode in Minnesota. And we have a great guest today from the great state of Minnesota.

Gyi Tsakalakis:

But we don’t just talk about the drop kick Murphy’s here on Lunch Harlegal Marketing. We also talk about, wait for it, legal marketing. Conrad, what do we got for the good listeners today?

Conrad Saam:

So as usual, we are starting with the news. And then we don’t do guests a lot. And I got to be honest, this is a guest I am really excited to have. Rich Ruohonen is joining us. The oldest US Olympian has just returned from Italy and he is a personal injury lawyer out of Minnesota, which is why we’re talking about Minnesota so much and the Dropkick Murphys and has also made some great statements, great political statements about the importance of the rule of law. When we come back, we’ll start with the news.

Gyi Tsakalakis:

Music.

Announcer:

Welcome to Lunch Hour Legal Marketing, teaching you how to promote market and make fat stacks for your legal practice. Here on Legal Talk Network.

Conrad Saam:

All right, everyone. As usual, we’ll start with the news. All right, Gyi, I believe this was sent to you by our good friend, Visi Friday. United States first Hepner, what’s going on?

Gyi Tsakalakis:

Yes. For everybody that is uploading or asking ChatGPT about what they should do after they commit a crime, don’t do it because you do not have privilege. I think there’s some nuance here. There was some good coverage of this by the folks at Clio in distinctions between using free ChatGPT and legal-based AI technology. But I do think it behooves all of us to take note of this decision and to be conscientious about what we are posting into these AI tools.

Conrad Saam:

And while we’re talking about AI and what we’re pacing into these tools, some of what is coming out of these tools is just as disturbing. We have experienced a little, enjoyed a little Shaden Freud with some lawyers abuse of AI in the court systems before this one coming out of Australia. Lawyer apologizes for fake quotes and fabricated judgments generated by AI in a murder case. This is the quote from the attorney in question. “We are deeply sorry and embarrassed for what occurred Nathwani told Justice James Elliot on Wednesday on behalf of the defense team. The errors caused a 24-hour delay in resolving a case that Elliot had hoped to conclude on Wednesday. This is a murder trial involving a minor. So don’t do that. Come on guys, you know better.

Gyi Tsakalakis:

“In other news, we got a hot tip from Brooks Derrik. Thank you, Brooks, for being a part of the community and bringing this to our attention. But a South Carolina lawyer was indicted for stealing money from the firm and clients. And Brooks brought to our attention that he was trying to, as he was hearing about this new story, he was going to try to figure out if it was someone that he knew. And he noticed that this lawyers … Is it AV, excuse me, AV Preeminent Peer Rating Review 2026 from lawyers.com award, even though his license was suspended in 2024. And so- Wait, can

Conrad Saam:

You just say what’s the takeaway here? I don’t understand how that works. This is an AV rated lawyer who does not have a license.

Gyi Tsakalakis:

That’s what it’s looking like. I haven’t validated the facts on this, but you can go search for this yourself because I believe this list is so

Conrad Saam:

Last. If you would like to search for it, the name of the lawyer involved is William Christopher Swett, S-W-E-T-T, who fraudulently obtained at least $1.5 million, sorry, and is going to go to federal prison for 20 years. But apparently, is it Martindale still thinks he is an AV rated lawyer, even though he lost his license two years ago?

Gyi Tsakalakis:

Yeah. I believe this is on lawyers.com, which it’s in the internet brands portfolio of Avo, Martindalelawyers.com and a bunch of other stuff. So again, I think what do we take away from this? I think lawyers know that a lot of these review platforms aren’t necessarily validating and keeping up to date with what’s going on with some of the people posted on the site.

Conrad Saam:

This seems a pretty low bar, internet brands. Come on.

Gyi Tsakalakis:

Right? I mean, even Avo used to do the … If they were in good standing with the state bar, if there had been a grievance filed. I mean, I should

Conrad Saam:

Check this. That was really important. That was a really important part of what Avvo did early on was validate licenses and discipline and those types of things. Avvo is a 2006 launch. We are now in 2026. 20 years later, you guys can’t get this right. Shame on you.

Gyi Tsakalakis:

And if you’re looking for some marketing positioning or creating social posts, maybe this is something that you educate your local community about in the unreliability of many of these award and just the problem of online reviews in general.

Conrad Saam:

And Gyi, we are really excited to start announcing speakers for the Luncheil Legal Marketing Summit, which you can get your tickets at, at lunchartlegalmarketing.com. Who’s our first speaker that we’re talking about?

Gyi Tsakalakis:

We are very excited to announce that Jay Ruane will be joining us to present at Lunch Hour Legal Marketing. He’s the first speaker that we’ll be announcing. Stay tuned for future announcements. And as Kodrad mentioned, please go grab your tickets at lunchhourlegalmarketing.com or submit a Fry Ignite Talk. We are still reviewing Legal Marketing Talks if you’re interested in joining us and speaking at Lunch Hour Legal Marketing Summit in August.

Conrad Saam:

Hey Gyi, where can they submit those?

Gyi Tsakalakis:

LunchhourlegalMarketing.com. And if you are watching us on YouTube, please like this video or do us one better and subscribe. We’d love to hear from you. We like to engage in the comments. And if you like this episode, check out this other episode where Conrad and I rock the boat.

Conrad Saam:

And we’re very excited at Lunch Hour Legal Marketing here to have our first ever Olympic guest, Rich Ruohonen, the oldest American to ever compete in the Olympics. Rich, thank you for joining us. We are really, really excited to have you.

Rich Ruohonen:

My pleasure. I’m looking forward to it, guys.

Conrad Saam:

Would love to hear more about the story. How did this happen? The ins and outs. You’ve been doing this for a very, very long time. Give us the story of your Olympic journey.

Rich Ruohonen:

I played in my first Olympic trials when I was 17 or 16 years old in 1988. And it was a demonstration sport back then, and I missed making the final 24 in the country by the last game. And I played in 92 and then had law school and college made things a little bit different. I kind of took a little bit of a step back, but I still played. And curling the way it works is there’s a world championship every year and a national championship. And then you have an Olympic trials during every four years for the Olympics. So the ultimate goal is obviously to make the Olympics, but going to worlds and winning national championships is great too. I won in 2008. In 2018, I won the national championship every four years with the Olympics. I took second a few times and third and fourth, but never quite cracked that gold medal in the Olympic trials until this past November.

Rich Ruohonen:

After I lost it four years ago, my partner, Jamy Sinclair and I and mixed ubles lost on last shot to go to the Olympics. Really disappointed and devastating, to be honest, because I thought it was over. You’re 50 years old. Who’s going to take a 50-year-old guy?

Rich Ruohonen:

Most people retire and curling at a minimum early 40s. And then so I pretty much thought it was over. After that Olympic trials, one of the guys who’s on our team now, they were a junior team. Their skip quit on them right before national. So they asked me to play for them, come in and skip for them, which is the quarterback of the team, the guy that’s down at the end calling the shots. And then I played with them for a year, but they were young and they were going to go on to younger teams. And then I thought I was retiring. This is last, so October or September of 24, that season. And I got a call from Team Casper, from Danny Kasper, and he was having some medical issues. He had Gianbari’s syndrome and was really having problems being able to curl. It was kind of like attacking the nerves and his hands and his feet.

Rich Ruohonen:

And so it felt like his feet and hands were always asleep and a little bit painful and stuff like that. So he really couldn’t play. And so they asked if I would basically help him out and kind of come out of retirement, so to speak, to be that skip. So I would throw lead rocks. We call it the first guy who throws, but then go down and call the game because that takes a lot of experience and strategy.

Rich Ruohonen:

And I had more than just about anybody out there that was available. So I joined them and things went really well. And we got to the national championship in 25. And we played every other game to get him to the playoffs. And then we lost on last shot to go to win the national championship and be able to go to the world championships. And so they asked me to stay on for the next year for the Olympics. Now, Danny was getting a lot better. He still has some issues, but he’s able to curl now pretty much full-time. So I kind of became more of an alternate role and a mentorship role. And we have a coach, but also helping with that strategy and coaching kind of stuff too. Things were going pretty well. I could play if I needed to, but goal was ultimately just to win the trials, which was in November.

Rich Ruohonen:

And we beat unseated Team Schuster. I’d won five in a row, including beating me a bunch of those times on my other teams.

Rich Ruohonen:

But the worst part about it was usually when you win the Olympic trials, you’re automatically in the Olympics and curling, but our team needed to finish the team that beat us the year before in the final needed to finish 10th or better at Worlds to automatically qualify for the Olympics. And they finished 11th. So then we had to go to this thing called the Olympic Qualification Event, which we played in Kelowna, British Columbia, and we had to take top two, or we don’t go to the Olympics. So you want to talk about pressure. That’s probably more pressure than the Olympics because you’re at least there. But I always said the only thing worse than finally winning Olympic trials, having to wait that long would be winning and then not getting to go to the Olympics. But we did win it. And then we went to the Olympics at the end of January.

Rich Ruohonen:

So that’s the story. It was quite a whirlwind and a lot of work. These guys wear me out, but it’s fun.

Rich Ruohonen:

A lot of people don’t know, but I leave my house at 5:15, three or four mornings a week to drive 30 miles to go to workout at the Vikings facility at Twin Cities Training House because we have a trainer and stuff. And then you go work 10 hours and then try to practice at nine o’clock at night some days. And every weekend when we’re not playing, we’re practicing for at least two hours a day and a lot of times more than that, playing practice games and all that. And then we’re traveling a lot. So a lot of work on the road. For me, being a lawyer too, it’s tough at times. I’m working in between every game and every weekend and at nights. And so it’s a lot of work, but it was so rewarding to finally make it. And it was worth it all.

Rich Ruohonen:

Everybody is so great and the way you get treated and you work hard for it, but to actually see it finally pay off, not that it didn’t. I mean, I loved my curling career. It’s just could have had a few more goals at the nationals and been to a few more worlds, but the ultimate goal was always to make the Olympics. And I thought it was over other than as a coach potentially. They want me to coach and eventually I will do that because I want to give back to the game that’s given so much to me too.

Conrad Saam:

And was that like from the very beginning, like a youthful … I think of gymnasts, that is the pinnacle. That’s where you want to get to. There are other sports where that’s not necessarily the case, but in curling, that’s where you’re really trying to get to. That’s the goal.

Rich Ruohonen:

Obviously the world championship each year is great too because only one team every four years from each country makes the Olympics, right? And there’s a lot of really good teams in the US or in Canada or whatever. So 99% of those people aren’t going to reach that pinnacle. But yeah, it is. Once it became a full metal sport, it was a demonstration sport in late 80s and early 90s. And then I think it was in 98 when it became a full on sport. And ever since then, that is the ultimate goal, but it is every four years. And there are lots of people who have took … My team was by far the best in the country in 2009 and we blew it. We won everything except the Olympic trials. We went to the worlds in 2008 and we got that next year, we were the team, but it slipped away.

Rich Ruohonen:

We had a bad weekend, a couple bad games, couple bad breaks, and suddenly all that four years is gone and you got to think about the next four years.

Gyi Tsakalakis:

I was going to say, thanks for sharing an amazing story. I mean, experience of a lifetime. You’ve talked a little bit about some of the challenges of being a practicing trial lawyer and that kind of the commitment that it takes to get to the Olympics. One of the other contexts … Our show is a lot of people that are interested in legal marketing, law firm owners, practicing lawyers. And one of the things that Conrad and I are always talking about is the impact on the business, the impact on the firm from … Whether it’s you’re passionate about some kind of cause, or in your case, you’re an athlete, but letting that shine through in terms of the connection that … Some lawyers, they’re not willing to share that part of their life, right? So if they’ve got an interest that they do in their personal life, talk to us about what role your journey in curling has played, if at all, maybe I don’t want to be presumptuous, maybe it hasn’t, in the context of the law firm, client development, PR, we’ve done some preliminary research.

Gyi Tsakalakis:

You got tons of media coverage, obviously. I even noticed that the firm website even got some links back from places like CBS and Fortune Magazine. So obviously there’s at least some halo impact on that, but I’m going to shut up now and let you talk about the intersection of your curling journey with your business development, the firm.

Rich Ruohonen:

I mean, I think it’s played a major role first from just looking back on its standpoint, I learned a lot about … I think being an athlete and playing at a high level and being a trial lawyer, really, they have a lot of similarities, a lot of qualities that help you. And I’ve learned from being an athlete and from being a lawyer in both disciplines. An example would be like in curling, a lot of people when you play a sport, you practice all the time, right? We practice, we just throw as many rocks we call it as we can. Or if you’re a basketball player, you shoot as many free throws or three pointers and you do all that. But one of the things that I think people don’t do enough of in the legal world is practice. Practice giving an opening, practice giving a closing, practice doing direct and cross exams.

Rich Ruohonen:

And I kind of help bring that into my firm. We don’t go into a trial without having given our opening statement at least once to a group of people. If not, we call it fight club, no compliments. Just here’s what’s wrong with it. Let’s fix it and let’s give it again. And I think a lot of lawyers don’t do that. In fact, I would say a large majority of them don’t. They go in and just think they can handle it without giving it. I’ll give my closing argument to the wall in my basement when I was learning and growing up. And then I give it to my family and I call in neighbors who want to see it and I do that. So that is a part of being an athlete and learning that. The other thing is psychology. Sports psychology has become huge since about 2010.

Rich Ruohonen:

It was bigger back then, but we just didn’t really have access to it, but it’s been great. And I’ve read a lot of books about the psychology of jurors. And how do I talk to people that I don’t know? And I always give this example, if I say don’t think about a purple elephant, no matter what I say, don’t think about a purple elephant, you can’t help it. And so I believe in psychology and what I say can make a difference between winning and losing. And the purple elephant example is like, I’m a personal injury lawyer, as you guys know. And if I’m in a trial, I’m not going to say my client, Mr. Jones, didn’t run the red light because they’re going to see him running the red light. I say, my client, Mr. Jones, had a green light and Mrs. Johnson over here, she says she didn’t run the red light and they are picturing her running the red light because your mind works in order to experience the negative to say that, okay, it’s not that negative, you have to see it first.

Rich Ruohonen:

That’s how the mind works, I’m telling you. And so I’m very careful about what I say. And we don’t call things accidents because accidents means nobody’s at fault. We call them crashes and collisions, right? Because otherwise you’re playing into that psychology. So there’s a lot of things that, that’s just one example of how I talk to people and what I do and being always making eye contact before I let the juror off before I go to the next juror. There’s just numerous ways to really become, use that psychology and that understanding that I’ve learned in sports with juries and vice versa. And always learning new things and try new things. As athletes, we try new things, better ways to sweep, better brooms, better equipment. And I think one of the things that lawyers don’t do enough is they don’t try new things. I hear all the time, “We can’t do that in Minnesota.

Rich Ruohonen:

You can’t say that. ” And I said, “Where is that from? Where’s the rule you’re talking about? Because I don’t know one. I say that all the time.” And so I have made a living off trying cases, but doing new things all the time. And yeah, a lot of them I’ve ripped off from other lawyers, but I’ll give them credit when I do. But a lot of it I’ve come up with on my own, like, “I’m going to try this. ” And people are like, “You can’t do that. ” And I’m like, “Says who? I’m going to do it. ” And I do it and it works. And then you use some of the stuff you learn and you keep doing it and getting better at it. So it’s things like that that just … In injection cases, I bring a needle into the courtroom.

Rich Ruohonen:

I show them what’s happening to my client because I think half the people are scared of needles in the world. Every time I do it, jurors duck their head. But if I don’t bring that needle out there, maybe it’s not as big of a deal to them. So things like that is just about psychology and they kind of all intersect. And then a lot of my competitions are week long and you’re tired at the end. Trials are weeks long and you’re working 16 hour days and you’re so tired, but you got to get up the next day and it’s a rollercoaster. And one day you feel great. We’re winning all our games curling. And one day we have a bad loss and now or two bad losses in a row and we got to overcome them. Same thing happens in trial. You get a good witness and then the next day one kills you and you’re like, oh my gosh.

Rich Ruohonen:

So it’s that whole just … I mean, I think that whole mentality of being a high level athlete and a high level trial lawyer, they’re very similar in my book. And so I try to use whatever I can glean from either side when I’m doing the other part and how you talk to people and stuff. And curling, we don’t say, don’t be heavy, don’t throw it wide, don’t throw it. Because that’s like, don’t think about a purple elephant. That’s another example. So when I go there, I go, “Hey, it’s okay to be there on this one. We have to learn how to talk to people because the way you say things really can make a difference on whether a person will make the next shot or whether a juror will believe you. “

Conrad Saam:

Curling has to be one of the most Minnesota things I could possibly come up with. For sure. And you might be one of the most Minnesota people I’ve ever met, right? Yeah,

Rich Ruohonen:

For sure.

Conrad Saam:

When you’re meeting with new prospects or other lawyers, how much does the curling and the legal overlap, or are they kind of separate, right? Is it part of who you are as both a professional and an athlete?

Rich Ruohonen:

I think it is. I mean, I think most people, if they’ve done … New clients don’t know that I’m the curl. They do now. I mean- They do now. So many clients that were like, “Oh my gosh, I saw you. ” And I was like, “That’s my lawyer.” And they loved it, but a lot of them do know. I get a lot of business from curling, frankly. I know people all over the country and so many people in Minnesota that when someone gets hurt, Rich is the guy

Rich Ruohonen:

And we have a lot, it’s a tight-knit community. So people keep those referrals within the curling community. I’ve gotten more business off curling than any other part of my life. So a lot of people do know I’m a curler, a lot of people don’t, but they do intersect a lot because if they ask, I’m going to talk to them about it. I do talk about, if I’m going to be gone for a week, I’ll tell my clients, “Hey, I’m playing in the national championship for curling.” And they’re like, “Wow.” And then they love it and they’re okay with it. They’re okay with waiting. I had so many people tell me, “My case can wait for a month, have fun at the Olympics,” which is great to hear, but I don’t go out and say, “Hey, by the way, I’m a curler and this is why it’s good for your case.” But I will tell them when they ask and I do tell them I have some other passions and I think it makes me more of a well-rounded attorney as I just explained.

Rich Ruohonen:

I mean, making those connections just between the two and how you can really become a better attorney knowing what you know as an athlete and vice versa.

Gyi Tsakalakis:

Yeah. I think you really nailed it. The point that I was hoping then you really drove it home is that this curling community, it’s tight-knit. And so when people are looking for referrals, they’re thinking of you, right? For sure. You’re rich the curling lawyer and we try to communicate that in other contexts. And the other thing that we always say is you don’t have to be an Olympian. You find that thing that you’re passionate about and participate in that community and commit to that community. And the community pays you back because it is still a relationships and reputation business to a large extent.

Rich Ruohonen:

And for sure. And we also do a lot of charity work through Curling and my firm. And so a lot of that is through … At TSR, we sponsor a lot of events. We have a lupus fundraiser for Lupus Research from someone that I know that’s really passionate about that. I’m playing in two weeks in a tournament called The House of Hearts up in Duluth, which where we raise money for kids who wouldn’t eat on the weekends if they didn’t have a backpack full of food, come home with them every Friday night and they bring it back on Monday and it’s built again on Friday. And those are real passionate things. And we donate our time. People pay a lot of money to play with an Olympian or to play with a well-known curler. Even if most of these people curl, but they’ll pay five grand to come play with an Olympian on the weekend.

Rich Ruohonen:

And then we give that all to charity and we’re just donating our time. And it’s a five-day commitment or four-day commitment, but it’s absolutely worth it and we want to help out however we can. And again, that gets your name out there and people know and they’re going to refer business to you. And you’re right, whatever community you’re in, you can really … If you do the right thing and act the right way and really show that you care, I mean, you will get a lot of business out of it.

Conrad Saam:

So I’m curious, tactically, you mentioned being involved in charity work, both from curling and the business. Do those overlap? Is that like we’re sponsoring this curling tournament from the business, or are those two things also somewhat separate?

Rich Ruohonen:

Well, we have separate stuff. We sponsor the YMCA, which has nothing to do with curling, although they ask sometimes one of the coaches who won the gold medal was one of the celebrity golfers, for instance. And so it overlaps a little bit like that, but where it more overlaps is I sponsor two or three junior teams, for instance, because I know how they can’t afford to play. They got to raise money. So

Rich Ruohonen:

In fact, one of the teams I sponsored just won the World Championship yesterday, Junior Guys team, Team ABER. And then I sponsor one of the young women’s teams who, and this is under 21 years old, they’re called juniors, and they were at Worlds as well and took forth. So then we do events. I sponsor one of the sponsors for Lupus and one of the sponsors for the House of Hearts, like I said. And then we’ll just give money for prize money for some of the curling events that I go to because I run the St. Paul Cashpie and we have to raise money. So I will put in $1,000 towards the prize money just because it’s that marketing, it’s that tight-knit community. Plus I want to help people out. I want to have a good spiel. I want to bring in teams from around the world because it helps grow curling as well.

Rich Ruohonen:

So it’s kind of a win-win situation for me and my firm to do those kind of things. And of course, I sponsor Team Casper that I’m on because the guys need money. When you’re playing with a bunch of 24-year-olds and 25-year-olds, they have jobs, but if they’re not … Some of them, if they’re not there, they don’t get paid. Now their employers have been great in giving them time off to curl, but they’re struggling to make ends meet sometimes. I’ve paid for

Rich Ruohonen:

Guys plane tickets and hotels and I front the monies and then we get it back from our budget for US curling sometimes. But those kind of things, I do that stuff too to help them out because I’m not in it for the money. I can afford to do what I need to do. I want to help out however I can and help with charities and help with kids and make sure that they get what they want. I give speeches all the time to juniors about how do you have a job and curl? Because it’s tough. It’s a lot of time commitments. And the one thing, the biggest advice I can give is use every waking moment you have to do something. Don’t just sit around doing nothing. I’m as ADHD as they come probably, even though it’s not diagnosed. I’m always doing something. If I have an hour, I try to answer emails or I try to read a book about curling or whatever.

Rich Ruohonen:

It’s like I don’t waste a lot of time very often.

Conrad Saam:

All right. When we come back, we’re going to dig into Rich’s stand and a very public stand about what is happening with the Trump administration and specifically the targeting of Minnesota. Stay tuned.

Gyi Tsakalakis:

And we’re back. And if you’re fast forward and missed the first half, we are so grateful to have Rich Ruohonen with us today. And Rich, one of the parts of your story that we wanted to have you tell is a story about the press conference when you really made a stand for the one way of looking at it is the rule of law, but why don’t you go ahead and tell us how that press conference happened and what went down and why you felt compelled to say what you said?

Rich Ruohonen:

Well, right before we left, we had the Alex Pretti and Renee Goode shootings and they were at the forefront of everything and we knew we were going to get asked about it sooner or later. The initial press conference you have to do at the Olympics is they pick six people out of our 10, 11 people, and I was one of them, one because I was going to be the oldest curler Forever, but also I think because I’m an attorney and they’re going to ask some questions. And so we kind of knew when it was going to be, but we were together training for the women’s team and our team were in Switzerland for five days first. Then we had to go to Milan for the Team USA experience and then go to opening ceremonies and then the press conference was going to happen on the 10th.

Rich Ruohonen:

And we knew there would be questions about it. We’re all from Minnesota. The stuff was happening right around where we live. They give you a little training about how to handle the press. I’ve had to do that after verdicts and my whole career, so I have a lot of more experience in it.

Rich Ruohonen:

But we talked about it and we all agreed something needed to be said. I mean, I wasn’t speaking for just me. I was speaking for our whole group. The other thing, the reason that I needed to be it, number one is because I was going to say something anyway, because I felt that compelled about it. Number two though, I’m playing with a lot of young guys that maybe just don’t have that training and speaking and in public speaking and they didn’t want to say something wrong, something that could be a distraction for the rest of the games. It also made it easier because I was the alternate. So if I had to deal with the distraction, which inevitably we knew was going to come, I could deal with it easier and they could focus on playing. But more so also because of the women’s team.

Rich Ruohonen:

They’re friends of mine. I’ve grown up, but they’re a little younger, but they are in their 30s and most of them, the couple were younger, but I’ve known them for years. People don’t understand what they have to deal with that we don’t have to. They don’t have to say a word and they’re getting comments about their appearance or their bodies or why they’re even playing because they’re women’s sports and it doesn’t matter. And I mean, I’m just telling you the stuff that they’re getting that people don’t really know. And it’s so wrong. And I can only imagine if one of them had said what I said, how much more they were going to have to deal with because the comments were crazy already for them. So I really wanted to take that burden from them too, so they could focus on playing because I thought that was really important.

Rich Ruohonen:

And so I told them I’ll make the statement. You don’t see it when I’m making the statement, but there were people crying in that room, people on the stage with me and people in the audience that were pressed. And it wasn’t maybe perfect. I didn’t write it down. The only thing notes I had was thank your family and friends. And we love the US because we do love the US. Okay? This wasn’t about hating. That’s all the stuff I got. You hate the US. Shut up. It wasn’t about that. We love the flag and what it represents. We love playing for USA, but what was happening in Minnesota isn’t what the flag represents and we needed to say that.

Conrad Saam:

So at the press conference at the Olympics, Rich was the person who took a stand, represented a lot of the athletes. And I’m going to read the end of what he had to say with regards to what’s going on with the Trump administration and the specific targeting of Minnesota. I am a lawyer, as you know, and we have a Constitution and it allows us freedom of the press, freedom of speech protects us from unreasonable searches and seizures and makes it that we have to have probable cause to be pulled over. What’s happening in Minnesota is wrong. There’s no shades of gray. It’s clear.

Rich Ruohonen:

Yeah. And I said a little bit more than that. It was about a two-minute speech, but I talked about that this is happening right around us. And the other thing that I said that was, I think, super important is the Olympics is about excellence, friendship and respect. That’s the three tenets of the Olympics that you learn about when you know that’s what you’re playing for. And I said, we all exemplify that and we are playing for people who have those same values and empathy and things like that. I can’t remember everything I said, but those values, those are the people we’re playing for and we’re playing for our families and we’re playing for the people in Minnesota and around the country who share those same values. We don’t have to be playing for this administration, so to speak. I didn’t say that, but that’s what you’re implying.

Rich Ruohonen:

But yeah, I felt it was super important to say that. I made a little bit of mistake there by probably not writing it down. I know you need reasonable, articulable suspicion to be pulled over and then they have probable cause. So everybody was like, “Oh, he doesn’t even know that. Okay, fair, fair. I made a mistake there.” But I wanted to talk about freedom of speech because it’s not really free if you have to sit and sit in the locker room

Rich Ruohonen:

And give that speech. Then it’s not free. Nobody hears it and that’s what they want. It’s amazing at how they claim they love freedom of speech until you say something in public, then they want you to shut up. And I’ll give you an example. Two days after I said this, I was having more interviews and doubling down on what I said and standing by what I said because people are like, “Do you have any second thoughts now?” Because I started getting death threats. I had people saying, “I hope your daughter and wife get raped and killed by Somalis.” And I read a couple of that out loud on one of my interviews, the swear words and what they’re calling and ripping on women. And even though it was me that said it, the watch your back in Italy. And I will say this, we did have a security team that immediately checked on those people to make sure they weren’t in Italy, to make sure they weren’t in Minnesota.

Rich Ruohonen:

And most of them were living in a trailer in the middle of Texas somewhere and couldn’t even afford to get to Minnesota if they wanted to. But it was a little scary more for my … I expected it, but my family got a few things and we had to send those to their security team. And like I said, they took care of us. They know instantly someone tried to dox me. My address is out there and stuff anyway, but they were put it out there. And I was worried someone might go trash in my house because I wasn’t at home or steal.

Rich Ruohonen:

And they had a program that immediately deleted it anytime it was put out on the internet on social media. So I mean, they took care of us. So I want to say thank you for that help. And the Brooklyn Park Police drove by my house a little bit extra. So those kind of things really helped and made you feel a little more safe, but it was something that needed to be said. And two days afterwards, J.D. Vance was there in Milan, not where we were, but he made some comment, and I don’t know the exact thing, but he said something along the lines of, “If you’re an athlete and you’re going to use your platform to talk bad about the US, then you deserve to get the backlash.” And I immediately started getting more emails and texts. Again, it was like he was talking to people to tell them to do it.

Rich Ruohonen:

And I just

Gyi Tsakalakis:

Think

Rich Ruohonen:

I don’t think that would happen from just about any other administration, Republican or Democrat in the last 30 years that didn’t have Trump in it. I don’t think that they would say that. They would say something like, “You know what? They can say what they want. I don’t agree with them, but that’s why we have freedom of speech in this country, and that’s why this country is so great. And I don’t have to like it. I don’t have to agree with it, but they should be able to say it. ” But of course, that’s not what they want, right? They don’t want people using their platform to say what is obvious. And when they’re telling us, “Don’t believe your eyes, don’t believe what you just saw on the shooting and calling people domestic terrorists that are out there protesting.” I’ve been at these protests. I’ve been, not so much right before this happened in this case, because I couldn’t afford to get hurt.

Rich Ruohonen:

I gave a lot of money instead, but my friend was assassinated, Melissa Hortman. She was a friend. She was my legislator in Minnesota, and she was assassinated last summer from this kind of rhetoric. I’ll never be the same from that happening. And I just thought, “This is the kind of stuff that is happening right now, and it’s not right.” And then you add on what happened here with the protests. And I just wanted to give kudos to the Minnesotans who really, they stand up unselfishly for people they don’t know and help drive them, take them places, get them food because they don’t want to leave their house. And my firm was helping in some of those efforts. And we felt like it was really important. And I had to say something, and we all agreed. And I’m glad I did. I’ll never back down from that, and I believe what I said.

Conrad Saam:

I mean, it seems the obvious question, but has Minnesota embraced you even more because of this? This feels like you’ve now become almost spokesman. Has that happened? I want that to have happened. You know what I mean? It

Rich Ruohonen:

Has. It’s been crazy. I’ll give you an example. Last night, I went to the Timberwos game and my firm has front row tickets and we share them. So it happened to be my game last night and the Timberwolves announced me as the oldest US Winter Olympian. I got to go on the court. They said he’s the R and TSR because we’re one of their sponsors.

Rich Ruohonen:

And so people know us. They are also, as you might imagine with the NBA and everything, it’s more of a liberal community. And I had people coming up to me, even before I was announced, saying thank you for what you did. I probably had wanting selfies with me. I probably had 20 people before I even got on the court and people knew I was there that night saying, “You’re the guy, you’re the guy. And thank you so much over what you did for Minnesota.” And I mean, it gives me, I’m getting goosebumps just talking about it because I didn’t do it for that notoriety. I did it because it was the right thing to do, but to have other people recognize that and 90% of people that have said something about it, it’s positive. And the 10% are the people who don’t leave their right name most of the time.

Rich Ruohonen:

Some of them will, but I’ve had lawyers reaching out to me that didn’t know I was at the Olympics that I go against. I mean, I’ve had an outpouring from defense attorneys who represent insurance companies and you always wonder, where are they on what I said? Most of them have been so happy for you that you got in, but more importantly, what you said was awesome. And it’s been an outpouring of support. I mean, I almost feel a little famous for the first time and I didn’t do it for that, but it’s crazy how many people know you now want to take pictures with you. And they don’t say because of curling 90% of the time it’s because of what you said. So to me, that means everything. And I said it would be probably my proudest moment other than winning a medal and we didn’t win a medal.

Rich Ruohonen:

So it is my, other than getting into, those were the two proudest moments and being there with my family. But to say that and to get the outpouring of support really meant a lot to me and no doubt it was worth it. And I’m glad I did it.

Gyi Tsakalakis:

Well, as a fellow human being and fellow citizen, thank you for doing it. And as a former lawyer myself, still licensed, thank you for being such a great representative of the bar, of the profession and of our country. Really appreciate it.

Rich Ruohonen:

Appreciate that. Thank you.

Gyi Tsakalakis:

Conrad, what else do we got? We’ve taken so much of Rich’s time as it is.

Conrad Saam:

I will tell you this, and we’ll probably cut this out. I’ve got tears in my eyes, man. I’m serious.

Rich Ruohonen:

Thank you. I did too. As I was saying, I was having a tough time not choking up because it mean … I think you could tell if you watched the video that I was talking from the heart, I did not have it written down. It meant a lot to me to be able to use that platform to say it. And I praise all the other athletes who did it. And I understand a lot of athletes came up to me and said they couldn’t say that. They felt like it would affect their fan base. They might say the wrong thing. They didn’t want to affect their families getting threats. And then a lot of the people did speak up and they did get those threats that I got. And so I thought it was super important to do it. And people were coming up to me all over the Olympics too at the village, athletes from other sports saying thank you for saying that from other countries saying what you said was so right on.

Rich Ruohonen:

Because you know what? People from around the world, they love us. They love the US. They don’t love what’s happening right now, but they

Gyi Tsakalakis:

Love

Rich Ruohonen:

Us. And that reputation is still good. It’s getting soiled a little bit, but they were coming up to me saying, “You needed to say that and we need more people speaking out like that because these athletes from Europe, they agree with everything I said too.” And El Porina support from them, I call it around the world, but the other athletes was fantastic too.

Conrad Saam:

We’re usually good at wrapping up. Do you want to do the wrap up? I’m useless here.

Gyi Tsakalakis:

Well, we will wrap up. Rich, thank you again for your time, for sharing your story with us, for standing up for the rule of law. And we’re just so grateful that we have the opportunity to share this story. And for listeners that are stopping by here, we drive this point home all the time, but I think Rich is just such a great example of how you can be in the marketplace as, in this case, a plaintiff’s law firm, plaintiff’s lawyer, but also be known for something else and for standing up for the rule of law because at the end of the day, we are in the business of the rule of law. It’s not just some kind of in this high minded activity, it also goes directly to the profession and the practice and the business of law. And so thank you, Rich. And if you just landed here, but you’ve never heard of Lunch Hour Legal Marketing for, please do hit that subscribe button.

Gyi Tsakalakis:

If you have topic ideas, if you’ve got other suggestions for us, we’d love to hear your feedback. Please do go in all the places that Lunch Our Legal Marketing is. Until next time, Conrad and Gyi for Lunch Hour Legal Marketing saying farewell..

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