The Marketing Crystal Ball Says…

Episode Notes

Transcript

Lunch Hour Legal Marketing

The Marketing Crystal Ball Says…

01/14/21

[Music]

Gyi Tsakalakis:  Happy new year.

Conrad Saam:  Happy new year to you Gyi.

Gyi Tsakalakis:  How are you Conrad?

Conrad Saam:  I am well. Do you have any new year’s resolutions Gyi?

Gyi Tsakalakis:  You know I’m not big on the resolutions thing but I do have some —

Conrad Saam:  Really?

Gyi Tsakalakis:  Yeah, I have some — I mean I look at the new year and it’s a chance to look back see where we’ve been, see where we’re going, make some changes. So, if we say it like that I do have a couple that are on my iPhone for daily reminders that is — I’m trying to read a book a week. It’s ambitious. I’m trying to drink — I don’t remember what the amount is but I’m going to drink more water this year.

Conrad Saam:  You know what? I always set up with a glass of water before we start Gyi. That’s like part of my pre-podcast ritual because otherwise we talk so much and I talk so loud that it gets brutal. My new year’s resolution this year Gyi and this is serious it’s meant to be funny but it’s also serious.

Gyi Tsakalakis:  All right we’re not going hold you to it.

Conrad Saam:  It’s to work less starting in February.

Gyi Tsakalakis:  Okay.

Conrad Saam:  I just can’t afford to work less right now there’s so much going on, there’s so much that happens at the beginning of a year that I’m going start working less starting in February.

Gyi Tsakalakis:  Well, I’m going to hold you accountable to it.

Conrad Saam:  Bring it, so like at the end of February you’ll be like “hey Conrad how is it?” and I’ll say like “yeah I’m on — I’m on Kauai relaxing because I’m working less” or I mean can sail relaxing because I’m working less.

Gyi Tsakalakis:  Very nice.

Conrad Saam:  Anyway, we’re going to get into new year’s resolutions, things we want to see you guys do our listeners do for next year. So, what does 2021 look like for you? What are the things that we think you should be thinking about? We’re also as usual going to cover the news. A couple news items that have come out. We’re going to go into our marketer to marketer kickoff and we’re going to do some crystal ball prognostications.

Gyi Tsakalakis:  That sounds like a good plan. Let’s make the world go round.

Conrad Saam:  Money makes the world go round.

[Music]

Intro:  Welcome to Lunch Hour Legal Marketing teaching you how to promote market and make fat stacks for your legal practice. Here on Legal Talk Network.

Gyi Tsakalakis:  Welcome to Lunch Hour Legal Marketing. Before we get started, we wanted to thank our sponsors. LexisNexis Interaction the leading client relationship management solution. Purpose built for the way law firms engage with their clients. Learn more at interaction.com.

Conrad Saam:  And thanks to Alert Communications for sponsoring this episode. If any law firm is looking for call, intake, or retainer services available 24/7 365 just call (866) 827-5568 and I’m going to mention here we’re going to come back around at the end of the show to talk about the importance of services like Alert Communications to make your marketing dollars go further.

Gyi Tsakalakis:  Last but not least. Lawyer provides end-to-end document automation for solo, small, and mid-sized practices. Save time and avoid mistakes with documents that you draft over and over again. Learn more at lawyaw.com that’s L-A-W-Y-A-W.com.

[Music]

Conrad Saam:  All right, big stuff in the news Gyi and you know typically December is the sleepiest time for technology and for lawyers and for the news and yet they all came together over the last month since we last talked. There’s some big big legal stuff going on with Facebook and Google as it pertains to antitrust what do you think is going to happen here Gyi?

Gyi Tsakalakis:  Yeah, nothing.

Conrad Saam:  Okay, moving to the next segment.

Gyi Tsakalakis:  I think — you know, I was forced to actually do the research on this one because you know, we all know the headline there’s several or at least two major antitrust lawsuits. There’s — I won’t even zoom out for a second. There’s a reckoning coming for digital media in general. Rand Fishkin who’s been a guest on this show, grateful for that. I had a post that talks about ad waste, there was a freakonomics podcast episode recently about ad waste. There’s these antitrust lawsuits going on so, you can go research all that stuff. Actually, our technical guys are great article that outlines the details of the lawsuits. Let me let me cut it why does it matter to lawyers. Well, unless you’re — unless you’re a lawyer that litigates these issues then it has a lot of interest for you but as an advertiser, a couple things are going on here. One, is the question of will we be able to target in the same way moving forward? will third-party cookies still exist in the future?  Will these anti-competitive activities of the platforms cause them to either be broken up or limit the functionality which could do a couple of things. One, it could drive up cost per acquisition cost, right? So there’s a chance that if it done a certain way the result of these suits could turn into more waste in the system.

Conrad Saam:  So, can you go into the whys because that’s really fat. That’s like the classic economics unintended consequences. Can you get into just a little bit of the why on that?

(00:05:20)

Gyi Tsakalakis:  Well, if they do something to — so part of the conversation this isn’t directly to the root of these lawsuits but it’s part of this conversation, this issue of consumer privacy, right? So, the more targeted — ideally because it’s not always true but the theory goes that the more you can target based on interest, based on user behavior the less waste there is for an advertiser and so you’re only showing ads and paying for ads in front of your intended audience. If you limit the ability of the platform to target so you’re going to have less targeted ads there’s a potential consequence here that the cost per acquisition goes up because you’re going to spend more money to get into a less targeted audience, there’s going to be more waste, lower conversions. The other thing that can happen though is that if they end up breaking all these companies up or changing the rules around privacy or changing how they function from a competitive standpoint, there’s a chance that you could actually improve the situation I mean, certainly improve the situations for consumers but it could improve the situation because the idea from an antitrust standpoint is it brings more competition into the ad platform space and the publisher space and that will actually bring costs down. So, you know there’s a lot of moving parts to this, I’m not an expert on it but I think that’s something for us to keep our eyes on but the reason I said nothing is going to happen is because we’re probably talking about two or three years I mean Google, these folks are going to put up a big fight. This is not going to be changing overnight.

Conrad Saam:  So, do you think there are people optimizing for Google lawyer antitrust expert best of California?

Gyi Tsakalakis:  Sure, googleantitrustlawyer.com has already been taken.

Conrad Saam:  Okay, speaking of the big G, algo update all over December. December 3rd, December 8th, December 10th if you are carefully monitoring your organic search expect that to have gone completely haywire and that happened during December during which your data for organic search in legal is going to go completely haywire anyway. So, it’s very difficult to look into any crystal balls and have any understanding of how that actually impacted anything. My advice to you is to see what happens in January and decide whether or not this is something you need to worry about or not. Maybe it was a benefit for you but that was a big thing. The other Gyi this is going to be our very first self-serving announcement. Tell everyone what’s coming up on April fool’s day of this year.

Gyi Tsakalakis:  The best Gosh Darn legal conference — legal marketing conference.

Conrad Saam:  Gosh Darn? that’s so very mid-west of you.

Gyi Tsakalakis:  Well, I keep it very you know G-rated on the show.

Conrad Saam:  So, Gyi, Conrad, Casey Moraz and Mike Ramsey, bedlamconference.com April 1st check it out we will be sharing.

Gyi Tsakalakis:  Virtual — virtual.

Conrad Saam:  I’m not getting close to Gyi. It’ll be online and we’re looking forward to kicking that off. So, check out bedlamconference.com to learn more about that if you’re interested. Moving on we’re going to stop talking about ourselves and we’ll start talking about you. Marketing that podcast, now that we have everything kind of kicked off for, we talked about marketing that podcast, Gyi and I have a challenge against each other to try and drive paid efforts to improve the listenership of this podcast and we’re doing that to share with you how we go about marketing our stuff for our clients. So, Gyi what are some of the key principles that people need to be thinking about when they’re running the market, what are some of the things that we set in place in order to make this happen.

Gyi Tsakalakis:  So, obviously tracking. We talked a lot about in the last episode setting up UTM parameters. Identifying what your key performance metrics are going to be. So, whether that’s a client or a qualified lead or a target cost per case or a number of new open files for us. We’ve decided that’s going to be a clicks onto the subscriber links and we talked a little bit about why we can’t get all the subscribers which for folks that advertise or host podcasts is a tough nut to crack. What else? We talked about testing ad copy, different creative and the importance of having very different creative, right? because you’re looking for statistical changes and if you have things that are very similar the difference in the statistics is very low making it difficult to pick a winner whereas if you’re trying to tell the difference between two very different things like for example our elephants bigger than mice you don’t actually need as much of a sample size to make that assessment. So, that becomes really, really important.

(00:10:06)

Conrad Saam:  All right, so now that Gyi and I are in this death match competition to mark this podcast. We want to also take a look back into 2020 actually most of 2020 we don’t want to look back at but for this we are going to. I want to get inspirational ideas we are launching the LHLMEs of Lunch Hour Legal Marketing best of technology, vendors, all sorts of things we want your input in helping us select items for the LHLMEs. So, we will have a Google form, there’ll be a link in the show notes for that you can always use the hashtag LHLM to communicate to us and we’ll be covering these on the next episode. So, please feel free to connect with us, submit we’ll be covering the best most interesting things that are submitted. What kind of category should we be looking at you know let’s give some inspiration here Gyi, what should people be thinking about?

Gyi Tsakalakis:  Well, first we’re going to have announce the marketer versus marketer winner which will probably be me, predetermined.

Conrad Saam:  We may have to have a vote recount. By the way Gyi and I are doing this on the 6th of January we’re recording this on the 6th of January. So, the vote recount or discussion about the vote recount is happening right now.

Gyi Tsakalakis:  We’ll also cover legal ad of the year. So, submit your best legal ads — worst legal ads. Feel free to submit your competitors. Best ad that’s a comedy so funny legal ad, best out of the box and you know we’ve been saying that a lot but really we mean just marketing it can be campaign it could be content pieced, it can — it can really be anything it touches digital legal marketing I mean you got something offline you want to send then send that into.

Conrad Saam:  Game on.

Gyi Tsakalakis:  Best legal website, best use of social media, best vendor you can’t live without and don’t feel constrained by these categories. If you’ve got something you want us to take a look at, please send it in. We love great and terrible examples of legal marketing.

Conrad Saam:  So, in this show notes you will be able to submit your nominations and we look forward to reviewing stuff and now it’s time to get the bills paid. Let’s throw it to an ad break.

[Music]

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The right client relationship management solution enables and empowers firm growth. LexisNexis interaction is designed specifically for law firms and embeds client intelligence at the heart of every interaction providing valuable insights into client relationships so you can make strategic decisions about how to focus your resources to gain more business. Learn more and request your free demo at interaction.com/lunchhour.

Conrad Saam:  And just to remind all of you guys and women the importance of online reviews for everything you do we’re going to read a most recent review of the podcast this is from Kate Notes. Conrad and Gyi cut through the crap and get to the information you need to know whether you’re a lawyer or the marketing person for your law firm of any size. This is the advice you need if you want to be competitive in today’s legal market they presented in a digestible and easy to understand format for newbies and professionals alike. No regrets in downloading this podcast. So, thank you very much for the shout out Kate. These reviews are important if you want to do anything go hit pause on your podcasts, think about the last client that you made absolutely ecstatic, call them ask for that review because they’re very, very important.

Gyi Tsakalakis:  Yeah, you know in fact just writing about this you know, you can be ranked number one in the local pack but if your competitors have better, have more better if that’s a thing.

Conrad Saam:  More better politics future reviews.

Gyi Tsakalakis:  More positive reviews who do you think your next client’s going to call? it doesn’t matter what your position is you can actually see conversion rates vary based on the competitive landscape in the local pack of reviews.

Conrad Saam:  So, watch this very clever hook for next year, one of your resolutions should be to get better reviews. Make that a part of your business but Gyi and I are now going to go into resolutions for lawyers for 2021.

(00:15:00)

[Music]

Conrad Saam:  This is a very very slow rendition of Auld Lang Syne.

Gyi Tsakalakis:  It’s beautiful.

Conrad Saam:  It was. It’s like standing. It could grave, you’re still going. Okay, so Gyi, what is your resolution that you think lawyers should make for marketing their practice in 2021?

Gyi Tsakalakis:  Make this the year that you stop being what I’m calling a one channel pony.

Conrad Saam:  What’s the one channel pony, Gyi?

Gyi Tsakalakis:  So you see this. Come up all. We talk to lawyers about this, we see it come up in lawyer Facebook groups and other lawyer online lawyer groups. Someone will say something like, who are you using for SEO, or who are using for paid search, or who are you using for social media ad management, and then you get a bunch of lists of all these different vendors. And then what happens is they hire one of these people and then all of their marketing budget goes into that one thing and maybe they had some success maybe they don’t. The magic that happens in digital is from integrated campaigns, right?  You pay for a click, you nurture that contact in a variety of ways whether it’s retargeting email campaign, social paid search ads, and content marketing. And so, I think lawyers need to make it — they’ve come a long way in the last ten years, but I’d like to see them take the next evolution which we see in almost every other business context that buys digital media online, or does digital marketing to take an integrated approach to your marketing. Don’t get so hyper focused on that linear funnel one. You know, search ad, click, call, hire, right?  Start to think more multi-channel and how you’re nurturing that journey because again, especially in the context some of a plaintiff firm, you’re going to be advertising to people. They don’t need you right now, but you want to be under consideration set when they do and you do that through this concept of integrating your marketing.

Conrad Saam:  So, I mean, one of the things — I think this is kind of a key. My experience is like “this is really been pushed by the vendors who buy enlarge or one-trick ponies.”

Gyi Tsakalakis:  Right.

Conrad Saam:  I made my PPC Shop. I build blogs for lawyers. I write content for lawyers. I do social media for lawyers, right?  And so i think this is really heavily driven by what I will call when your hammer the world looks like a mail vendors.

Gyi Tsakalakis:  Yeah, he’s right.

Conrad Saam:  Here’s new year’s resolution and it ties into what you’re talking about. Learn and have a system in place the concept of an intake qualified lead. You guys all know what this is because you yell at us all the time as agencies. We get this all the time. Yeah, I sent you 65 leads last month. Yes, and they were all crap Conrad, so like I don’t care. Well, the reality is they probably weren’t all crap, but they felt like all crap because you wasted a ton of time talking to bad leads, okay. So what I mean by intake qualified leads, and I think you need to start evaluating what he was talking about your multi-channels, right?  You need to start evaluating those channels. Not on the leads that are delivered to you, but the intake qualified leads. And right, you guys already know this. The problem is marketing people like to send you the number of leads that they sent you because it’s a number, but even if it’s the pizza guy dropping off pizza for the Friday conference dinner or it’s opposing counsel calling you, it’s still showing up as a lead. Get down to intake qualified lead and have that by marketing channel, and in order to do that you need a solid intake management software. So that is the new year’s resolution I would like you guys to adopt. Work on codifying the concept of intake qualified leads for every single inbound that you get and be able to filter your marketing channels by that as opposed to just the raw number of stuffs that comes in. Gyi, I don’t have a single lawyer that I’ve talked to in the last six months who has that set up correctly as a prospect. I have not talked to a single one. I don’t know if you have or not, but I have not.

Gyi Tsakalakis:  I can. I don’t know if I have the top met it’s very important, though.

Conrad Saam:  Okay.

Gyi Tsakalakis:  My number two.

Conrad Saam:  Go.

Gyi Tsakalakis:  Is, you know, it’s a resolution but you know I guess this is how resolutions go, it’s something that’s ancient and it ties into some of this stuff, but dump the vanity metrics. And you know, I even hear and I’m guilty of it myself. I’m guilty. I’m like quasi guilty. I’m not going out and telling people to get Twitter followers or anything like that, but we even talk about things like engagement metrics, right?  So, “hey it’s great that you’ve got engagements.”  That’s all well and good, but again, driven by the marketing people. At the end of the day, you need to see your firm through the lens of your audience. So things like and when we talk about reviews, right?  But I see ads all the time like legal ads and I’m like “I guarantee you that lawyer is not that happy about that ad.”

(00:12:00)

Gyi Tsakalakis:  So whether it’s because they didn’t approve it or they don’t know where the ads are being run or they’re running display ads on sites that the lawyer won’t be proud of, or there’s social media content that you look at and you’re like “Uh” and I know these lawyers. Their price cringing too with their marketing persons like “I don’t know this stuff works.”  Dump the vanity metrics, see it through the lens of your client and position yourself and it goes back to integrating. Position yourself in a way that you want to be seen across all these channels. Be consistent with it and don’t get sold on like “I got –you got 500 YouTube views.”

Conrad Saam:  So what are your most hated vanity metrics. I love that.

Gyi Tsakalakis:  Bounce rate. I hate bounce rates.

Conrad Saam:  Well, it’s such a dismissive way of saying it. I love how you couch that so bounce rate. What else?  What do you hate?

Gyi Tsakalakis:  Like numbers frequency of posting, raw backlink numbers, I don’t know.

Conrad Saam:  I could go this — could go on for this whole year of episode on Vanity Metrics. We could. Hey, how about we do this. Direct traffic. Direct. I’m going to preview. We may have an upcoming segment sponsored by someone who’s really really smart about metrics for law firms.

Gyi Tsakalakis:  Love it.

Conrad Saam:  So, there we go. I’m just putting that out as a teaser.

Gyi Tsakalakis:  You are like looking into a crystal ball, here.

Conrad Saam:  We’re going to get to Crystal balls in a second. My number two, answer the phone. Please answer the phone and here’s a thing. So everyone’s — we just lost ten percent of the listeners because they’re like “yes, I know that.”  These guys are stupid.

Gyi Tsakalakis:  No, they’re like my phone is ringing.

Conrad Saam:  I wish. I wish you’d like press pause answer the phone. But this is the problem that I get. Every time I talk to a lawyer, they tell me that they’re great at answering the phone, right?  And I’m like “yeah, but I called you and I got voicemail, or I got your phone tree” and what happens when someone calls you after hours, right?  So, answering. It’s not just answering the phone it’s answering the phone with a person who does a great job of representing your firm, who stops the prospect search for a new lawyer. How do you do that?  You have the person who answers the phone in your office or if it’s a third-party system have access to your calendar and they book you for that initial consultation. That stops the search. So, it’s not just answering the phone although, answer the phone because most of you guys do a much worse job of that than you think you do. Get data around that if you can, but also the process of that is to stop that person search. And taking down a message that “yes, I’ll have Murphy get back to you when he’s in the office is not good enough. It’s not good enough because that prospect continues to look.

Gyi Tsakalakis:  Yeah, and it’s not and I’ll even take it one step further. It’s not just answer the phone. Your marketing people set you up with a Facebook page and I Google my business profile and a live chat thing, and who’s fielding all those inquiries?  I can’t tell you how many times we look at a new Facebook page and it’s just a stream of messages in Facebook. Some of which are actually like qual — you know, they’re actually, how did you say, intake qualified leads.

Conrad Saam:  Intake qualified.

Gyi Tsakalakis:  Sitting right in their inbox, but you know what it was three months ago because nobody’s fielding the Facebook messaging system. So, not really. Don’t even bother calling them back now.

Conrad Saam:  So I know we went through almost an entire episode without talking about Google Screened.

Gyi Tsakalakis:  I knew, you’re going to do it.

Conrad Saam:  I know. I know, it’s like I have to do it. But use the Google Screened app, it’s really good like respond. It’s like it’s there to be with you all the time and let you know when people are trying to talk to you. Use these stuff people respond.

Gyi Tsakalakis:  Make sure the appointment URL that you’re using is one that you intend to be in there.

Conrad Saam:  Gyi is coming in hot. Do you want to name him guys?

Gyi Tsakalakis:  Nope.

Conrad Saam:  You don’t?  All right.

Gyi Tsakalakis:  No, I don’t. That’s more in your department.

Conrad Saam:  Because Gyi likes pushing me into fights that I like to get into. We will be doing this somewhere else, but go check your Google My Business listing and make sure that if there’s an appointment listing, it is not from a company in Vancouver that has somehow installed that onto your GMB listing without you knowing about it. And now, wants to charge you for the privilege of talking to that prospect. More on that later. This part of our conversation not brought to you by Legal Talk Network, it’s just Conrad being a jerk to an unscrupulous vendor. All right. Let’s all take a second and calm down and go to a quick ad break.

[Music]

Conrad Saam:  No one sites routine drafting as the reason the reason they chose to become a lawyer, but that’s where a lot of time goes for solo practitioners and small firms. Lawyer can help you transform your existing word documents into reusable templates with no coding required. Save time and avoid errors with intuitive features like conditional logic. Use a tool that empowers your experience and expertise. Learn more at lawyer.com. That’s lawyer.co.

(00:25:17)

[Music]

Conrad Saam:  Welcome back from the break. Now, we would like to go to our segment, “Conrad’s Crystal Ball”. So we’re going to look into the future key. Are you looking into your Crystal ball?  I am. It’s showing me something really really fascinating that is technical and nerdy and legal and market. Are you seeing the same thing?  I’m actually have images of when the president put his hand on that glowing orb, a long time ago, remember that. So, listen. We avoided politics and we avoided Google Screened ads until the end of the show. I think we were on a good track and we’ve just screwed it up.

Gyi Tsakalakis:  Next time next.

Conrad Saam:   Next time, okay. Gyi, when you look into 2021, what do you see in the Crystal ball?

Gyi Tsakalakis:  I see ads. I mean I see more ads. I think it’s an ads and spam are what I see, sadly.

Conrad Saam:  Ads and spam. That sounds like something you could get at that Delian and Harbour. It could be called ads and spam.

Gyi Tsakalakis:  Zingerman’s.

Conrad Saam:  Zingerman’s or Maison Bleue which is also very good. Number 18, I think it’s 18 the championship celebration but at any event. Sadly, you know, I get asked these questions like “Gyi, what do you think is coming in 2021?”  And I’m like “honestly, more ads and honestly in a search perspective a lot of spam.”  A lot is going to change this year, I don’t think. Now, two years, three years, maybe but “do you think the Antitrust thing is going to turn the screws on the span that’s showing up?

Gyi Tsakalakis:  It will. That’s very optimistic. It’s possible but again that’s not happening in 2021.

Conrad Saam:  Okay. I agree on that. I’ve been wrong on this for so long that I’m just going to stop saying it like I want to go back to like 2012 where I was talking about Google changing, the makeup of what shows up and the results because of anti-competitive pressures. And I’ve been wrong for so long. I’m just giving up on it. In my Crystal ball, Gyi, I think what we’re going to see the advent of very sophisticated technology for helping law firms develop business intelligence about what’s working, improve the efficiency of intake, make sure things don’t fall through the cracks. So there are quite a lot of products out there that can help you really run your law firm more efficiently from an intake perspective to even just running the firm, and that level of software and that level of expertise delivers amazing customer service because things stop falling through the cracks. You stop having situations in which you’re not getting back to someone in a timely manner where you know that if someone fills out a form, they are getting responded to within two hours instead of two days. You know, Gyi, you work with Lawmatics so you you weren’t going to bring up your own investment, but I know you’re invested in Lawmatics. There’s a bunch of other ones Clio Grow, that was a company that Clio purchased and rebranded as Clio Grow. It integrates really well with Clio. LexisNexis interaction that sponsors this podcast. Now, we’re not going out of our way to talk about this because they sponsored the podcast. This is really important, though, but that’s another option. There are lots of options out there, HubSpot is a non-legal one. The opportunity for law firms to utilize technology, to deliver a better customer experience. Make sure things don’t fall through the cracks. Develop amazing data and run your firm like a sophisticated larger business. The window for that is right now, and that’s what’s really going to separate the good firm that great in 2021, 2022 is roughly my guess.

Gyi Tsakalakis:  Hundred percent I agree with you, and I think we’re really — this is maybe the second quarter of this. The money is coming into legal it’s going towards developing products like this. I think of Lidity also in this camp, built on salesforce. And the other thing I think about is I remember when I first left the practice of law, talking to Kevin Chern and Ed Scanlon at Total Attorneys and they had a much more — this is back in like 2008 and 2009. They had a much more sophisticated platform for this stuff, the infrastructure for ads because it doesn’t just impact your ability to convert and measure, it impacts your ability to find waste in your ad campaigns, it impacts your ability. It helps you identify where to allocate resources and deploy resources reallocated research and deploy resources and that is a huge competitive advantage. And if you’re not playing in that space and you want to be.

(00:30:02)

I think if you’re a smaller firm and it’s not a thing for you, I think maybe you’re okay but if you’re trying to be you know, we hear about “I want to dominate my market”. Well, the people dominating the market —

Conrad Saam:  Do you har that?  How often do you hear that Gyi?

Gyi Tsakalakis:  This is what they’re focused on.

Conrad Saam:  Yeah. So, Gyi is 100% correct. The people who are winning the market know what works. You know, he’s talking about eliminating waste et cetera, it also can highlight where you’re terrible and that’s a really really good thing, and I believe that the firms that take this seriously that invest in this now will identify where they’re terrible, eliminate wasted spend and become a much more efficiently run machine and you’re seeing that the pressure on that coming in both from a software perspective, as well as, the level of people that are coming into legal consulting, right?  And so, you will see law firms being run much more efficiently and effectively and those that leverage the technology to do that to improve their firms those will be the winners.

Gyi Tsakalakis:  Right.

Conrad Saam:  That’s my take. And it touches client service too, it’s not just a marketing thing either. A hundred percent, right?  I mean all of the things that you can do with your mother management software now that is fairly easy for a small to mid-size firm to deliver a level of service that’s really outstanding completely different than like three years ago, two years ago, even. And so, this is a great time at the beginning of the year to start to reinvent yourself to amazing being an amazing business because the technology is right there close at hand.

Gyi Tsakalakis:  It’s the good one. Good Crystal ball.

Conrad Saam:  That is my optimistic ending. We often end with like a rat sad trombone. This is an optimistic Crystal ball, bigger challenge. Well, dear listeners, thank you so much for dropping in for this episode of Lunch Hour Legal Marketing. If you just stopped here randomly, please do subscribe on your favorite Podcast App, Apple, Spotify, Stitcher we’re all over the place. And please do give us feedback. We want to hear from you, leave a review, contact us, hit up the hashtag LHLM on Twitter and send us those nominations for our upcoming contest. Until next time, this is Gyi and Conrad, Lunch Hour Legal Marketing.

[Music]

Conrad Saam:  Thank you for listening to Lunch Hour Legal Marketing. If you’d like more information about what you heard today, please visit legaltalknetwork.com. Subscribe via Apple Podcasts and RSS. Follow Legal Talk Network on Twitter, Facebook, LinkedIn and Instagram, and or download the free app from Legal Talk Network in Google Play and iTunes.

The views expressed by the participants of this program are their own and do not represent the views of, nor are they endorsed by Legal Talk Network, it’s officers, directors, employees, agents, representatives, shareholders or subsidiaries. None of the content should be considered legal advice. As always, consult a lawyer.

[Music]

Conrad Saam:  So, along with this little competition that Gyi and I are going to run against to each other. We are going to do the LHM wires. We want Lunch Hour Legal marketers. We

Gyi Tsakalakis:  Yeah, LHLMS

Conrad Saam:  LHMS.  That’s sounds much better than the way I send it.

(00:33:57)

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