Stephen Breyer plans to step down at the end of the Term. But we didn’t get much time to celebrate his legacy before the national conversation shifted to denigrating his hypothetical replacement. Georgetown Law found itself thrust into the center of the story when its newest hire branded Breyer’s not-yet-chosen successor as a “lesser Black [woman].” Speaking of law schools dealing with racism, Penn Law professor Amy Wax says she’s not retiring amid a disciplinary inquiry into what the dean describes as her increasing “promotion of white supremacy.” Meanwhile, Goodwin instituted a new vacation policy that should help associates actually unplug for a little bit.
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Joe Patrice: Hello and welcome to another edition of Thinking Like a Lawyer, I’m Joe Patrice.
Kathryn Rubino: I like it that I didn’t have to say anything to break you.
Joe Patrice: Well, I was just so braced for somebody to step on the intro as per huge.
Kathryn Rubino: I got to keep you on your toes. I got to keep you on your toes.
Joe Patrice: I’m Joe Patrice. That’s Kathryn Rubino. You also heard Chris Williams, how are you everybody doing out there?
Kathryn Rubino: You know, I’m okay. Survived the winter storm.
Joe Patrice: Oh yeah, there was a storm.
Kathryn Rubino: Really?
Joe Patrice: Small talk? Yeah
Kathryn Rubino: God damn it. I thought we were just going to be seamless. Seamless — yeah, lots of snow. Finally got my driveway plowed which was more of an endeavor than I had hoped it to be, but it’s accomplished and I only had a shovel for maybe three hours sonot bad.
Chris Williams: How big is the driveway?
Kathryn Rubino: Very.
Chris Williams: Flex? Okay.
Kathryn Rubino: It is – the house is set back from the street. A fair amount so after the last storm, it was mostly just a hazard. So, trying to not have that happen again. But how was your weekend Chris?
Chris Williams: It was it was spent in Philly, having some furnace issues that should be resolved tomorrow. But until then, I was like, you know what I really do like not hearing my teeth chatter so my friends were kind enough to let me crash. I was very responsible and by that, I mean, I did nothing but play video games. I think I might have mentioned before for small talk with this is three-dollar video game called Vampire Survivor. It has I know reason being as good as it is for three dollars. So, I did some leveling up on that and I got back into RuneScape because I’m an adult and that’s what adults do.
Kathryn Rubino: What system is that on?
Chris Williams: They’re both PC games, both PC games.
Kathryn Rubino: Got you. I know Joe plays a fair amount of the gamings.
Joe Patrice: No, I’m not, I don’t think nearly enough to be considered a gamer.
Kathryn Rubino: Sure, I think that you are a distinct casual gamer, is my impression, is my impression of you.
Chris Williams: There’s a strict process and like you if you watch over twice a week, you’re no longer a gamer like the casual. There was an update in the definition of a gamer and the DSM-5.
Joe Patrice: Okay.
Kathryn Rubino: Yeah, fair enough. I’ve been playing on the Nintendo Switch because my niece’s got one for Christmas and so I obviously need to up by skill level so that I can hang with the nine-year-old.
Chris Williams: Hollow night is fun if you get a chance to get that for the Switch do that. It has this really nice nightmare before Christmas aesthetic, kind of go into it. It’s really cute and it’s also difficult. I’ve recommended that if you have to kill time between shoveling.
Kathryn Rubino: Always.
Joe Patrice: So, how we doing. We feeling good about talk that we just had?
Kathryn Rubino: I’m feeling kind of apprehensive actually.
Joe Patrice: Oh, why?
Kathryn Rubino: Because I’m pretty sure that there’s going to be a sound effect soon.
Joe Patrice: What?
Kathryn Rubino: Yeah. Yeah, you just wait for me to talk.
Joe Patrice: If you don’t like the sound effect. I thought this was just part of our like repartee, but you really not like it?
Kathryn Rubino: I knew it was happening and I could do nothing to stop it.
Joe Patrice: Yeah, so interesting transition last week, we did a show that was instantly out of date, you might have noticed when it came out. That’s because somebody else saw something happening and realized there was something they could kind of do to slow it down and that —
Kathryn Rubino: It’s a lead follow or get out of the way Breyer got out of the way.
Joe Patrice: That’s right. What are the all-time classic lines lead — whenever somebody says lead follower get out of the way, I get out of the way. That’s not the point, it supposed to inspire you to a lead or at least shame you into following. Idiocracy.
Kathryn Rubino: Yeah. Stephen Breyer has retired from the Supreme Court.
Joe Patrice: He has.
Chris Williams: That deserves a little fanfare.
Joe Patrice: Yeah.
Kathryn Rubino: That’s very loud, very long sound effect.
Chris Williams: Until there are nine applauding.
Joe Patrice: Yeah, exactly. So yeah, so Stephen Breyer has retired. Well, will at the end of the term assuming a replacement has been confirmed that is all the caveats in his letter. This is something that a lot of people were expecting for a while. Some people thought maybe it would happen a little earlier in the process such that it doesn’t run the risk of running up into midterms, but here we are.
Kathryn Rubino: Better late than never.
I mean, I don’t know. I am still surprised. I know a lot of you said, some folks weren’t but, when he didn’t retire immediately upon the democrats securing both the presidency and the senate. I didn’t think it was going to happen. I’m not sure what exactly changed that the changed his mind that wasn’t true last year and again does not but up into the midterms, but here we are.
Joe Patrice: Yeah, so happy trails, I guess to make this kind of like a PTI moment, happy trails to Stephen Breyer who will be leaving the court after being on it for the entire lives of most people in law school, which is in no way a sign that we have a broken system that’s functionally hands power to an aristocracy. But yeah, so he’s going to be leaving. Who’s going to replace him?
Kathryn Rubino: A black woman.
Joe Patrice: That’s true.
Chris Williams: Oh no.
Joe Patrice: Yeah, so I will say that the one of the earliest takes I saw was from both right-wingers and left-wingers saying this won’t change the 63 conservative majority on the court. So, everyone should just relax. There’s not going to be any attempt at blocking this sort of a pick and that took about — let me check my notes to about two hours to be blown completely up which — that’s how much it was blown up. Yeah, I have an explosion effect now.
Kathryn Rubino: Did you upgrade the sound board?
Joe Patrice: No, it was on there before I just hadn’t noticed it.
Chris Williams: It was a lesser sound effect.
Joe Patrice: Yeah, it’s just — our yeah. Anyway, yes.
Kathryn Rubino: Well, the races have come out now, right?
Joe Patrice: They have, they have.
Kathryn Rubino: You can’t stop white people from racing.
Joe Patrice: Yes, races.
Chris Williams: It’s kind of baked in, Heppard Farmer remembers, white people races.
Joe Patrice: Yeah, but yeah, the concept of a black woman having this job was –
Kathryn Rubino: Blowing people’s mind.
Joe Patrice: Was a real quick with the old racism. So, who wants to tackle that topic right now?
Kathryn Rubino: Well, it was Chriss’ story. You can go for it Chris.
Chris Williams: Okay. This is just fun to watch and see meltdowns happen real time. And the fun thing is the conversations that aren’t being had, because of course the obvious thing is he like, oh isn’t there an asterisk next to this appointee or person who’s nominated name, just because they were singled out, because being a black woman was a requirement, but my thing is we’ve had a long multiple centuries tradition of only having white males is like being a hard requirement. Only like 115 justices I think like what seven of them have not been white men. And now is time to change things. Like really, what will happen to you know, having the idea of what’s happening from the sake of equity, that’s too much.
And also, my other thing is about the asterisk because they’re like, oh now that you specifically getting a black woman what about the most qualified candidates as if it’s just a foregone conclusion, that a black woman wouldn’t be the most qualified candidate. And when I think about what judges are supposed to represent in like the public image, you’re supposed to have like an upstanding moral person, right? You got the guy that likes beer and got accused of raping somebody on court.
Kathryn Rubino: Attempted, yes.
Joe Patrice: Accused of that was correct.
Kathryn Rubino: Accused of attempted rape.
Joe Patrice: Accused of attempted rape.
Chris Williams: He also got another guy accused of rape. Shouts out the clarence.
Joe Patrice: Well, not rape no.
Kathryn Rubino: Sexual miss—sexual harassment.
Joe Patrice: Accused of sexual harassment.
Chris Williams: Apologies, clarence. Sexual harassment.
Joe Patrice: Getting all the various sexual crimes straight is difficult and that’s a sentence that probably shouldn’t be said about a supreme court, that’s a general matter.
Chris Williams: And getting them straight. I mean, they got a shout out to Scalia and what was it, over feel, and he had a long history of judges doing, like wonky ass judges. I think Amy Coney Barrett biggest accolade was that she was an intern for Scalia?
Joe Patrice: What do you mean?
Chris Williams: Or clerk?
Joe Patrice: She clerk, yeah. Everybody clerks, yeah.
Chris Williams: Everybody went to court clerks. Like it’s kind of a thing like she didn’t know all the five prongs of the first amendment like three cases that she was notable on. So, you got people who are not the most qualified recently getting knocked in as far as, like legal accolades or moral ones. But the promise of a black woman is generating this much outrage. I’m like what?
Kathryn Rubino: I think the really galling part about it is one of the folks who said some reprehensible stuff was Ilya Shapiro and you know, compare and contrast, he believed he said the phrase was that it was going to be a lesser black woman, right?
And that was his reaction versus when at the time, President Trump said that he would be nominating a woman for the seat that Amy Coney Barrett took over. So, if it is affirmative action, it is not. If it is same thing happened, but instead of having this kind of, well, why are we limiting it only to women instead of the most qualified candidate instead, Shapiro’s reaction when Barrett was nominated was she’s an incredibly qualified, brilliant jurist. That was his reaction when it was a conservative, but not only did he say this yet as unknown nominee in this instance, because he knows it will be a black woman and therefore cannot possibly be qualified. But if you go back to what he said when Sonia Sotomayor, we were the best justice. She’s got a special place in my heart. I’m going to say it, whatever.
When she was nominated, he went off about how she was unqualified. Never mind all the years that she spent on the Second Circuit, never mind her elite pedigree. It is a not a but it’s a feature of the modern conservative movement. They denigrate everyone who’s not them, trying to undermine their achievements. Because that’s what will stick in casual observer’s minds.
Joe Patrice: I mean, Reagan made it clear he was going to pick a woman for the seat that eventually was Sandy O’Connor’s.
Kathryn Rubino: Also, why women are the ones who benefit the most from affirmative action.
Chris Williams: Well, the thing that I think that I’ve been convinced of for a while and for the people that are on defense for like, oh, maybe this isn’t all just rhetoric. Things make a lot more sense and we just take as an axiom that it’s only identity politics when it doesn’t involve white people’s benefit. Amy Connie Barrett, that decision or we’ll just get a Republican leaning woman so that when we overturn raw, at least there was a woman on the court. That was a clear identity politics decision. There’s no question, like people see potential cases coming before court. There’s already like five, four, six, three breakdowns before they even get to the merits of the case. That’s before the judges. Because we’re already in a regime of identity politics. We already know based off of illegal people’s, prior voting habits or political parties, what have you what’s likely going to be the outcome. And it seems like people are talking about like, oh, doesn’t this start be identity politics when there are people that aren’t white that are becoming included.
Kathryn Rubino: It is wildly racist. It’s so obvious, seemingly to everyone except for Georgetown, apparently.
Joe Patrice: Yes, because Georgetown had recently hired Shapiro to do a run of center and he very quickly rolled out this stuff. He’s not alone, though, there’s a –
Chris Williams: On that note, not all of Georgetown. Georgetown’s boss is actually trying to get him to not teach there.
Joe Patrice: Yeah. I mean look whatever ends up happening with this sort of situation.
Kathryn Rubino: The dean came out saying he was against the statement but not actually doing much about it.
Joe Patrice: Right. We will talk a little bit more in a bit about the whole concept of Deans and whether or not they do much about stuff. But yeah. So right now, I think before we get off of the subject of — I mean a supreme court justice opening is a big deal so let’s keep this rolling for a little bit and talk nominees. Yes, so the search will land on a black woman but there are multiple black women who are qualified jurists who could potentially have this job. So, who are we looking at? Gambling guide.
Kathryn Rubino: Leondra Kruger is one of them, right?
Joe Patrice: California Supreme Court Justice Leondra Kruger.
Kathryn Rubino: Right. I believe noted for being a particularly pointed writer. Elite qualifications as all of them really do.
Joe Patrice: Ketanji Brown Jackson is the most is considered the front runner in a lot of circles.
Kathryn Rubino: I think that’s probably accurate.
Joe Patrice: The DC Circuit previously DC District Judge, long federal service.
Kathryn Rubino: And the thing that I think sort of the inside baseball that makes her the front runner more so than everything else is that she clerked for Breyer and if you recall when Kavanaugh got nominated, his prior clerkship was seen as part of the reason why Kennedy was willing to leave was because he was sort of bequeathing it to his former clerk. And so, I think that that passing of the baton from justice to clerk is seen as a thing and when I was figuring this all out, I was like, oh, that’s it. That’s the signal that this is who it’s going to be.
Joe Patrice: I mean nothing says we have a legitimate democratic system and not a series of aristocratic appointments, then only handing over power to your own chosen successor.
Chris Williams: Hey, let’s not forget a lot of the people on Supreme Court are Harvard grads. And we know they have a long outstanding tradition of the legacy admissions. Why not do that with the justices? Sarcasm by the way.
Joe Patrice: Harvard yeah. I mean, look not for nothing, Amy Coney Barrett did not go to Harvard or Yale. So, there is that at least.
Kathryn Rubino: Right. She’s the only one who’s currently on the court, right?
Chris Williams: True diversity at least.
Joe Patrice: At least that broke something up.
Kathryn Rubino: Michelle Childs is also frequently mentioned, she’s on the District Court for the Southern District of South Carolina.
Joe Patrice: Right and given her South Carolina ties, there’s some theory that if you’re worried about Lindsey Graham and Tim Scott, you could potentially pick them up by picking somebody from South Carolina.
Kathryn Rubino: Lindsey Graham has come out and said multiple times that Michelle Child, he loves her.
Joe Patrice: He would support her.
Kathryn Rubino: He would absolutely support her and she is, I think, the only one on most of the shortlists that did not attend an Ivy League Law School. She went to University of South Carolina school of Law.
Joe Patrice: So, go cox.
Kathryn Rubino: I hear a lot of silly people talking about Kamala Harris. She also went to did not go to an Ivy League law suits to UC Hastings. But I don’t believe that that is a serious.
Joe Patrice: Well, because it’s stupid. That is a stupid theory peddled by people who are in some weird wish cast of an echo chamber. No, they’re not going to put the vice President on there and replace her with Susan Collins or Liz Cheney or whatever the bizarre stupidity Mitt Romney, I guess Bill Kristol said.
Chris Williams: Is this a queue thing?
Joe Patrice: No.
Chris Williams: Like how did it come about? Like AO, you know, who will really be a good Supreme Court Justice? I don’t even know how that –
Joe Patrice: Well, it’s all about this weird replacing her with some random republican as though that would make sense for Biden to do, it’s all dumb.
Kathryn Rubino: People think that we live in an episode of the West Wing and we don’t.
Joe Patrice: Correct.
Kathryn Rubino: So, that’s it.
Joe Patrice: Thankfully. So, now we’ve talked about people who are going to –
Kathryn Rubino: And there’s a couple of other names on the list. But yeah, I think those are the front runners.
Joe Patrice: Those are clearly frontrunners.
Kathryn Rubino: The kind of spoiler that’s really been out there is Sherrilyn Eiffel?
Joe Patrice: Yeah, Sherrilyn Eiffel.
Kathryn Rubino: Set to retire or step down as the NAACP Legal Defense and Education Fund President and Co-director. So, we’ll see.
Joe Patrice: Potentially looking for a new gig, yeah, that’s fair. Yeah, so that goes through that. So, we will find out soon enough, probably given our track record last week, probably before this episode comes out, because that’s how last week turned out for us. So, we will find out soon enough who will answer that call. Hey, answering call.
Kathryn Rubino: Yeah, wanted to pick it up?
Joe Patrice: Yeah. Who picks up the call for a law firm? Well, let’s find out.
Kathryn Rubino: Let’s find out.
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Joe Patrice: So, that was that.
Kathryn Rubino: That was slick.
Joe Patrice: Thank you. I’m really good at what I do.
Chris Willaims: (00:18:49)
Kathryn Rubino: Interesting theory there.
Joe Patrice: So, let’s talk about firms. We’ve been talking a lot about law firms paying more money, but sometimes there are other perks that can be valuable and you covered one this last week.
Kathryn Rubino: Yeah, Goodwin is offering folks associated with the firm a week-long vacation that they’re going to pay for. They have a couple of packages that they’re putting together but if none of them kind of suit you, you can work with the firm travel agent to come up with your own package. I believe it’s eligible for folks who build 2000 hours and your normal coverage issues we’re still going to apply, but it’s great. I think that the firm is not only saying you need to take time off because you need to recharge because you cannot burn out, we actually need you here when you’re here and take the time to make sure you’re doing your best work when you come back. But paying for it too, I think it’s a really great signal to folks with the firm that you should be taking that vacation s part of working and I’m here for it. There’s a couple of other firms that are doing fun stuff like that.
Whether it’s billing your hours, that your 40 hours that you’re on vacation towards your available our requirements. (00:20:07) doing that. A couple of firms doing stuff like that. But now in the middle we’ve talked at nauseam that we’re in the middle of a talent war for or associate talent. And this is a nice little perk. This is one way and it’s hard to kind of communicate and to understand when you’re lateraling as an associate what the firm ambience is like. I hate saying firm culture because it’s kind of cheesy and what the hell does that even mean?
But I think that these are the sorts of programs and it’s so hard to like kind of legislate what it feels like to be an associate at a firm because oftentimes big law firms are little fiefdoms. Where my life is miserable because I work for Partner X and they are jackass and your life is wonderful because you work for partner y all the time and they’re amazing. And so, with that kind of imbalance and kind of experiences that can happen oftentimes at law firms, this kind of top-down program I think really goes far to say to folks this is something everyone needs to value and prioritize and we care about as a firm.
Joe Patrice: Yeah, I think it’s important and I think firms need to start creating these sorts of alternative ways of differentiating themselves because eventually the compensation marry go around is going to throw a few firms off. That said, I don’t think it’s ever going to — especially with the cost of tuition. Compensation is never not going to be the top thing that an associate is looking for and as much as firms want to think, well we have this good culture or whatever it’s not just all about money. Unfortunately for associates, its kind of is because they’re a couple of hundred grand in debt and that’s not something that a vacation can take care of. Now, it’s good to have these alternative things out there. They are going to be good markers and differentiators between firms, but compensation will always remain the top.
Kathryn Rubino: I understand what you’re saying about how compensation will always be kind of the primary driver, but when you’re talking — it’s probably valued at something like $5,000 per associate, right the vacation and whether you’re making an extra 5K as a 450-year associate probably doesn’t matter nearly as much then working at the sort of place where you can take a week off where you can’t — and that’s the week that they’re paying for. In addition to also I took a couple of days at Christmas and no one bothered me. I think that that is the kind of mental well-being that people do prioritize over 5K, 10K.
You’re not just talking about your ability to pay off your loan. What’s that going to translate? I can pay off my loan three days Earlier. Who cares, right? What I care about is my mental health and my ability to kind of continue at this job and people can’t continue for 5 to 10 years at the kind of paces that they’re going at. That was true before the great resignation. Lots of people like to talk about that all the time, but listen, in the early 2000s, people always been a churn of associates. Big law firms are not structured so that everyone they hire as a first-year associate makes it to partnership here. They don’t want you all there. You’re designed to be burnt, to be chewed up and spit out. That is the model.
Joe Patrice: There is a bit of a pyramid scheme to it that’s how the leveraging works. I completely agree with your point, though that vacation time alone is not enough because you can give that time, but you can’t create a culture in which it’s taken. this moves toward making that vacation time meaningful if the firm is kind of honing up this and it’s also very much a pittance in the grand scheme of how much associates get paid. But it’s one that can actually make that vacation time matter. There are some other firms who have done things like this before, but more like on the boutique level, this is like the first one where a major firm is going this route. So, good to know, are we good with that? Let’s talk about law schools again and speaking of our dean is going to do something.
Kathryn Rubino: All right, you kind of teased that earlier. Oh, look at that four shadowing, that’s like a pro move there. Two points for Slytherin.
Chris Williams: No, not in 2022. No, it was the only people that had like, slaves in the book.
Kathryn Rubino: No, I think Joe’s probably considers himself a Gryffindor, am I right?
Joe Patrice: I mean, I did take that test, and that is what the sorting hat said.
Chris Williams: Ravenclaw all day, every day.
Joe Patrice: Yeah. Nice.
Kathryn Rubino: Hufflepuff.
Joe Patrice: Of course, Hufflepuff.
Kathryn Rubino: That it all takes out.
Joe Patrice: Any who, speaking of Slytherin. Penn is now finally dealing with Amy Wax. There is a formal complaint to deal with the perennial problem child of that organization.
Kathryn Rubino: So, for perhaps new listeners, Joe, do you want to give, like, okay, I’m going to limit you to the three most offensive things that Amy Wax has done, said or written.
Joe Patrice: She wrote an article explaining that the entire American society was better when white men were in charge.
Kathryn Rubino: One.
Joe Patrice: Then she said that all the black students at Penn didn’t actually pass all any of their classes based on some sense that she had of the blind grading procedure, apparently.
Kathryn Rubino: Two.
Joe Patrice: And then now she says that America would be better off with fewer Asians.
Kathryn Rubino: Three and there’s more.
Joe Patrice: There are more. But you made me limit.
Kathryn Rubino: I know, but I just want people to get a sense of the kind of person we’re dealing with here.
Joe Patrice: Ultimately, expanding her portfolio to include Asians was what tripped up the University that had historically tried to bend over backwards to let her continue working. They now have initiated formal proceedings to deal with the situation.
Chris Williams: And this is why when you’re tenured, you just dunk on black people.
Kathryn Rubino: Sad but true.
Chris Williams: It’s in the book. It’s in the book, page three, which nobody reads.
Kathryn Rubino: They don’t get that book.
Chris Williams: Black people.
Joe Patrice: So, she is now getting looked at obviously, tenure while it protects a lot of things at a certain point, does not protect your ability to create a hostile learning environment or pass off your nonsense, easily debunked weird theories as though they’re scholarship. So, that’s being looked at. She then the other day went on to explain once again how black people, because of crime and IQs, are not able to be evenly distributed among the legal profession. So that’s a thing that she decided to drop the other day and with that interview, decided to explain that she’s not going to resign.
Kathryn Rubino: Of course, she’s not.
Joe Patrice: Because nothing –
Kathryn Rubino: Why go gently into that?
Joe Patrice: Yeah, why take the graceful approach now. She’s going to turn this into some sort of weird martyrdom. That said, and this brings us back to that Shapiro situation, too. There was a little back and forth online between some other people, legal commentators, both stern and (00:27:24) were going back and forth about the idea that you don’t call for these professors to be fired or anything when you call out their mistakes, because they’re just going to turn that into some sort of martyrdom complex and make everything worse. And my position is that’s the logic of hostage taking.
Kathryn Rubino: Well, it’s also non-unique. They’re going to act like their martyrs regardless. Regardless of whether or not they had that job, they’re still going to act the same way. They’re still going to do the same thing. So why allow them to potentially indoctrinate students?
Joe Patrice: Yeah, well, put aside indoctrinate, because I’d like to think that students are good enough. The way I put it in an article I wrote about it is. Yeah, you are not going to cure their toxicity by firing them, but you remove yourself from their toxicity. That’s enough. Sometimes that’s enough of a reason. So, yeah, it’s hostage taking and they’re going to act like you can’t fire me or I’ll create a scene and they will create a scene and that’s just going to be how it goes. Anyway, I’m assuming Amy Wax is not happy about the new nominee either, though. I don’t know as though she’s given an interview about it yet. We’ll see.
Kathryn Rubino: I mean, only time, only will tell.
Joe Patrice: So, with all that said, I think we’re done. Yeah, all right. So, thanks, everyone.
Kathryn Rubino: Have a good week.
Joe Patrice: Yeah. Thanks, everybody, for listening. Thanks to Posh for being our new advertiser there. You caught in the middle of the episode. You should be subscribed to the show. You should give it reviews. You should be giving stars as well as writing something. Writing something shows engagement that helps algorithms, which are our new masters, figure out how you feel about this. You should be reading Above the Law because that’s where these stories start and that way you can be up on them before our weekly roundup of stories. You should be listening to the Jabo which is captain’s other show of legal tech week journalist roundtable. You can also check out a panelist on you should be listening to the other Legal Talk Network shows. I was on one interview, actually I don’t know if that one’s come out yet, but I was interviewed on Jared show the other day.
Chris Williams: That have been small talk man.
Joe Patrice: It comes out today, I’m told so. That will be out so I was interviewed, you can hear me give something trivia questions.
Kathryn Rubino: On what Podcast?
Joe Patrice: It’s Legal Toolkit? Yeah, Legal Toolkit. My issues with remembering the names of shows.
Kathryn Rubino: Age is a hell of a drug.
Joe Patrice: Okay, that’s enough. You should follow us on social media I’m @josephpatrice, he is at rights for rent. You don’t need to follow Kathryn after that comment.
Kathryn Rubino: @kaathryn1, that’s the number one.
Joe Patrice: Okay fine. Yeah, I think that’s everything.
Kathryn Rubino: Peace.
Joe Patrice: All right, bye all.
Podcast transcription by Tech-Synergy.com