How Freelance Paralegal Professionals Boost Law Firm Efficiencies

Episode Notes

Transcript

Tony Sipp:

And welcome back to the Paralegal Voice. My name is Tony Sipp. Today’s guest is Corrin Swintosky, a powerhouse paralegal and founder of Lucid Legal Support LLC, from supervising high risk probation cases to driving justice reform through clemency and expungement work, Corrin blends legal precision with operational brilliance. She’s here to share how freelance paralegals can transform law firm efficiency and expand access to justice along the way. Welcome to the Paralegal Voice Corrin.

Corrin Swintosky:

Thank you Tony so much. I’m super excited to be here. I’ve been following the network for a little bit, so to be on here is super awesome. Thank you.

Tony Sipp:

It’s very exciting. I’m really excited to have you. I know you’ve been busy, you’ve been to the Nala conference, you’ve been getting around, you’re doing a lot. So for the people that don’t know who Corky is, tell us a little bit about yourself.

Corrin Swintosky:

Yeah, absolutely. So as you said, freelance criminal paralegal. So what that means is I run my own freelance criminal paralegal business, lucid legal support. It is just me and I assist solo and small criminal defense law firms across the country. I have about five years in criminal law experience, so I can come in and assist law firms from an arrest of a client all the way to sentencing. And I also specialize in post-conviction relief and remedies. So that’s after someone has served their sentence, they still have this criminal record, but it’s causing a lot of barriers and consequences upon reentry. So I help them with legal remedies in order to try to get them back on track. And as you previously said, I’m trying to get into more of the speaking arena to try to spread the word on criminal law and provide some additional education to paralegals looking to get into this space.

Tony Sipp:

I really appreciate that. I think that’s great. You started off in probation and transition through the judicial operations into criminal defense. What drew you deeper into the legal system and how did those early roles shape your approach today?

Corrin Swintosky:

Absolutely. It’s interesting, whenever I tell people I started in probation, they look at me kind of funny compared to where I am today. They’re like, really? And the reason I started in probation is because one of my professors at my bachelor’s degree, I was getting my bachelor’s in psychology. She was a probation officer. She’s also a social worker. And at the time I really wanted to bridge mental health and people that struggled with substance abuse in the criminal legal system, I mean, that’s still the population that I love to serve. And she was like, feel free to apply. Be a probation officer. See how it goes. So I applied for an internship. My main population was working with group violence offenders, also known as gang offenders in North Minneapolis. And it was an amazing experience to get first perspective into the criminal legal system and build relationships with the clientele and with this population.

However, I realized very quickly that being a probation officer, you’re not able to help as much as I wanted to. And what I mean by that is you have very limited to no resources to help people after they’ve been convicted while they’re serving their sentence. There’s very limited opportunities for jobs and housing and education, and I felt, how can I help these people? Being a probation officer when there’s no resources available, I can’t help them. So I thought, I want to use my zealousness, my passion, my advocacy. I’m going to go to the courts. So I got a job as a court clerk in the criminal division. I was assisting in the court with judges as well as outside of the court with defendants and other case parties. And again, an incredible experience. I got to know the ins and outs of the court system.

But as we all know, working for the courts, you got to remain impartial. That was really, really tough for me. So I’m like, alright, I got to go into legal, I got to go into litigation, something where I’m representing the defendant. I considered law school. But after looking at the time commitment and costs, I thought I got to look into something else that’ll always be there. And I branched out into talking to some other paralegals and it really seemed like the right thing for me. I went back to school, got my graduate paralegal certificate. It’s just a year program, but heavily focused on legal research and writing, which is my bread and butter. And I was just able to hit the ground running since. So I got a job as a paralegal for the public defender’s office, doing a lot of trial work, working on serious felonies. Then I was also freelancing on the side. That just wasn’t enough for me. I loved my job too much and I wanted to do more. But then it got to me too much where I’m like, okay, I either need to freelance or do the job with the public defenders full time. So I unfortunately had to let that go. And I filed for my LLC about two and a half years ago, and I’ve been independent ever since.

Tony Sipp:

Wow. You’re not going to believe this, or maybe you will, but I kind of had a similar path. So I got my internship at the public defender’s office, and at the same time I was representing, I was in the Courtroom working for, well, the PDs office at the time started working for a service called Pretrial Services, which releases people either on the electronic monitoring or on their own recognizance. So it was an interesting thing. So I’m in the jail early in the morning interviewing people to see if they’re eligible for release, and I want to help more. I can’t, wasn’t in the position to help. More and further, I was becoming a little bit calloused because it was the same thing over and over again. I just got a little bit disheartened. So I wanted to do something a little bit different and tried to make a more of an impact. So I went into the legal side of that and kind of out of the jails immediately in the jail. So a little bit different. So when you started doing the freelance as a freelance paralegal, what helped you decide that it’s more than a side hustle, but more of a movement for you?

Corrin Swintosky:

That’s a really great question. When I initially went into freelancing, it was more so because I got to help law firms across the country. It was just a bigger impact to help many different people across many different jurisdictions and sectors, which is what I wanted to do. But in terms of a movement, I really didn’t start to see that until maybe a little bit over of a year in where I’ve had so many people reach out to me on LinkedIn and other platforms saying, Hey, I really love what you do. I’m super interested in doing the same thing. How can I get into this? And I’m like, oh, I had no idea that so many other people were interested in doing criminal law or freelance work. So since then, I’ve really tried to build up my community base. I’ll admit I’m a hermit. I travel a lot. I’m an introvert, and I’m like, alright, Corin, you can’t keep doing that if you want to be able to make an impact and help. So I started to see that movement with so many other people interested and just seeing the benefit of having a community in the paralegal space and bringing that criminal law knowledge and expertise.

Tony Sipp:

That’s incredible. And I’m glad you found your niche because you’re out there. Everybody knows who you are now. I had you as a presenter and you’re doing wonderful things for the community and for access to justice, and you love what you do. I think it’s fantastic. So Corrine, you’ve worked on over 80 expungements and 50 criminal defense cases. What patterns have you seen and seen the barriers people face in trying to move forward after a conviction?

Corrin Swintosky:

Absolutely. And I do want to mention if I could, that the barriers do start during the pretrial phase. I mean, this isn’t something that I specialize in or promote per se, but I do want to point out that there’s not the innocent until proven guilty narrative that people think there is. With criminal cases. I’ve seen the barriers start when people get arrested and are held in custody, awaiting their next court date, awaiting trial. Over 98% of criminal defense cases plea out, which is really unfortunate. But for the people that stick to it and they’re like, Hey, I didn’t do this. I know I’m innocent. I’m going to wait in here as long as it takes to do this trial and be in front of a jury, people lose their jobs, their housing, it creates barriers with family. That is where it can start. But as for after a case, after a conviction, reentry is tough.

I mean, there’s very similar themes that I just stated, and it doesn’t even have to be from a serious violent felony case. I’ve heard stories of people, sorry, I’m jumping around. I got a call when I was in the court clerk’s office of this gentleman, he’s called the courts. He is like, I got a parking ticket in Minneapolis some years ago. I moved out to Seattle not too long ago. I’m trying to get an apartment and these property management companies won’t rent to me because I have this parking ticket on my record. What do I do? And I had to take a couple seconds to myself because I’m thinking if people can’t get access to housing because of a parking ticket, we’re in trouble going from there. I mean, the barriers aren’t just education, housing, employment, those are the big three I think for people trying to better their lives, reduce recidivism.

But I have so many little examples of people that weren’t even able to go on a field trip with their kid because the school found out that they had a criminal background. Nothing child related, nothing felony or serious crime. They just had a criminal background and couldn’t do it. And in addition, I want to mention occupational licensing. There’s so many people that want to help vulnerable populations. I have so many people that are like, I want to be a nurse. I want to help kids. I want to do childcare. I want to work with the elderly. And most times, more often than not, your criminal background is going to hold you back from that because the occupational licensing aspect is through the Department of Health and Human Services, and they have their own rules, criminal records, separate from the courts and other agencies. So to me, it really touches all aspect. You just don’t know until it happens to you and until you have to apply for something or sign up for something and then there’s a barrier that you never would’ve thought of.

Tony Sipp:

Wow. Let’s take a quick commercial break and let’s discuss more of this topic on the other side of this break. We’ll be right back and welcome back to the Paralegal Voice. My name’s Tony Sipp, and I’m here with Corrin Ruki. We were talking about the barriers to access to justice. So Corinne, can you talk a little bit about the difference between expungement and clemency and if you have a story they can share with us, that would be helpful.

Corrin Swintosky:

Yeah, absolutely. So I think the most common remedy people are familiar with is criminal expungement or record sealing. I think record clearing, record sealing, those are really big buzzwords right now, especially with all the legislation with the Clean Slate Act. For those that are not familiar, the Clean Slate Act essentially once that passes, gives these government agencies the authority to administratively seal criminal records in their systems. So a regular criminal expungement the person with the criminal record, they’d have to go through the court system, file court forms, have a hearing, this very tedious process, but with an automatic expungement, the person with the criminal record doesn’t have to do anything. It’s all on these government agencies that have that criminal record. They just seal it on their end. So the Clean Slate Act has been huge. Many different states across the country have implemented it.

Tony Sipp:

When I was in New York, I was working in that, and a lot of times when I would see that happen is when it was for the youth and the young people that something happened and they didn’t want it to impact their future career. So they would suggest that if you don’t do anything for a year, it would automatically be expunged or you can apply for an expungement.

Corrin Swintosky:

Yes.

Tony Sipp:

Do you have a similar, is that what you’re seeing as well?

Corrin Swintosky:

Yeah, so a little different than that. It depends on what the law says, right? But it’s for all lower level offenses, let’s say all misdemeanors. So it’s just misdemeanors across the board or with cannabis legislation coming in all low level cannabis related offenses now that it’s been legalized. So yes, it’s on a very large scale. It’s not all cases, but that’s been huge because access to a criminal expungement, it’s a lot of time. You need to know the law very well. Mostly people don’t, again, very tedious work. You can hire an attorney, but that’s an extra cost. There’s a filing fee cost. I mean, it’s just a lot of work. On the other side of that, clemency is something I’m more favorable to if I had to say, because the impact of clemency can be a lot more favorable to the person with a criminal record than an expungement.

And the reason why is because in most states in expungement, it just seals the record from public view or erases it from public view. Now, that does reduce barriers for people because if they apply for a job or housing or education, those institutions can’t see it, which is awesome. However, an expungement doesn’t always give your civil rights back such as maybe firearm rights or it doesn’t always seal the record from every agency that has your record. I think that’s a common misconception with an expungement. In some cases, it’s only with the courts or the police department. I mentioned that with occupational licensing. That’s a separate department, department of health, department of Human Services. And what clemency will do specifically with a pardon, is that pardons will forgive the conviction. So that means the person is restored completely, their civil rights are restored to before they went through the criminal legal system, before they were arrested or charged or got the conviction. So they’re able to vote again. They’re able to hold jury, they have firearm restoration rights, and they’re able to get whatever job they want as long as they’re qualified. So it’s a lot more impactful than an expungement.

Tony Sipp:

That is quite the distinction between the two. And thank you for explaining that to our listeners. So it’s not just about casework. You’re very passionate about that. I can hear that in you. That’s fantastic. So it’s interesting because you’re taking the human side of this and you’re looking at those barriers and you’re trying to really help people overcome those barriers. You’re a big advocate for access to justice. I can see that. I’m guessing that’s why you created Lucid Legal Support. So you could do that. And I find it ironic that you have LLS on an LLC, so I think that’s clever. Very, very clever about that. So how do you balance the human side of legal support with your tech, the operations side of your business?

Corrin Swintosky:

Sure. No, that’s a good question. I’ve been in business a little over two years, and I do have to say that the tech side and the operations has had to change so much for me. If anyone out there is a newer business owner, you don’t think of the systems at first. You don’t think of the tech. You don’t realize how important that is. Working with law firms and seeing how much you can automate, seeing how much that can save time for the paralegal and for the attorney to focus on, the person can focus on their defenses and the more substantive work. That’s what improves access to justice. Utilizing the technology to be able to help more people is what I try to do. And in terms of balancing the human side of things, I mean, me as a paralegal, I’m always open to talk to clients.

I know not every paralegal role is client focused or client centered. Some are more behind the scenes. I’m happy to talk with clients, answer questions, concerns, anything that they have. I actually do love it. I was very briefly, I was a server for seven years before I got into the legal system. So I am a people person at heart, and I do miss that customer service aspect sometimes. But I also do heavily rely on the tech to save time, make more time for clients, and work on more of the substantive stuff that I know matters and could make or break their case.

Tony Sipp:

And it’s important to have that customer service experience. Being able to talk to the customers, be able to talk to your clients, makes a difference. I mean, one of the biggest easiest way to get a malpractice suit is not talking to your client. Exactly. I’ve seen it happen. Unfortunately, I’ve seen it happen. So it’s a great skill to have, and I always tell people that are entering into the field, come as you are, bring all those skillsets that you have with you because it’s only going to help you in this field. And clearly you’re succeeding in that aspect and helping law firms succeed and overcome some of the obstacles that they’re, so for paralegals considering freelance work or legal ops consulting, what’s one mindset shift or skill that they really need to embrace?

Corrin Swintosky:

You need to get rid of the mindset of a W2 employee. Freelance work and being independent is completely different from being an employee or being a W2. And it took me a minute to transition into this mindset. What I mean by that is you are the expert, you are the consultant. You’re working hand in hand with the attorney or law firm that you’re supporting. Yes, the attorney is still the main decision maker. They’re retained. It’s their bar license, they’re directing the case. But I think the relationship is a bit more side by side, for lack of a better term than maybe just the attorney as the boss giving the paralegal work, if that makes sense. Because all my clients, they ask my opinion on everything. I mean, for anybody that knows me, they know I’m very opinionated. So you’re going to get it whether you like it or not sometimes.

But they do value that. They’re like, Corrin, what do you think we should do on this case? How do you think we should handle this? What arguments do you think we can make? And I’ve expanded this into not just my legal research and writing, but trial work as well. I just did a trial earlier this year in Chicago and the attorneys we met every day before the trial, every day after brainstormed, what can we do better tomorrow? So making sure that you position yourself as an expert, make sure that you position yourself as having that expertise to bring to the table. Because freelancing is new too. Law firms, I’ve had law firms and attorneys come up to me and they’re like, what is a freelance paralegal? I have no idea what that is. I have no idea what you do. And I have to position myself and be like, Hey, it’s someone who tends to have a little bit more knowledge, flexibility, and expertise to bring to the field.

Your work product has to be top tier as well. I think a lot of freelancers are like, oh, well, I can just do the same thing that I’ve been doing. No, if a law firm is outsourcing to you, it’s because sometimes they haven’t found a W2 that can fit their needs, and they’re looking for someone that’s specialized and experienced in that area. So having your work product be top tier is also super huge. Having the systems in place that we talked about before is also really huge for assignments. Working with different attorneys, make sure that you’re integrating into their systems and just being flexible and adaptable. I know that’s really hard and legal because the legal system in general is very rigid, but if you can just take what’s thrown at you and roll with it and try to spin it, you’ll be successful.

Tony Sipp:

You’re like the Jason Bourne of freelance paralegals. I’ll definitely take that as a compliment. That’s pretty cool. I like it. I like it. So if you can wave a magic wand, I teach one thing about the criminal legal system, what would it be?

Corrin Swintosky:

One thing only,

Tony Sipp:

Those are tricky questions because I mean, we’re seeing things and you’re about to do a webinar on this about warrants, for example, and what we’re seeing going across the country. I happen to be in LA and we’re seeing a lot of things about warrantless arrests happening, and with warrants, the judge signs it. That’s what you keep hearing. Did the judge say you can’t do it unless the judge signs it and make sure that they show you a warrant and ice is different. They don’t need a warrant. What is your understanding of the distinction between warrants and warrantless warrants?

Corrin Swintosky:

Federal is a completely different bear, but what I can say is that there’s a common misconception right now for individuals that do not have a legal status in the United States, that they don’t have the same access to the Constitution, that their rights are not protected under the Constitution. And the Constitution does not say that. The Constitution says everyone has a right to due process for all people, and the Supreme Court has ruled on this. They’ve clarified that this is for all persons in the United States regardless of your immigration status. So with that being said, any type of law enforcement, including ICE, needs to abide by everyone’s constitutional rights. Now, this gets a little bit tricky. If there’s already a pending investigation by a federal agency, maybe they’ve already been building a case against someone for years and years and years, and they have enough evidence, let’s say, to be able to charge this person with something or prove that they’re doing something illegal.

That gets a little bit nuanced, and that’s a little bit different than just trying to arrest someone on the street or come at someone because you have a hunch of their status or that they’re doing something wrong. I can’t speak to that as much because there’s some more legal standards that need to be met, but the warrantless search and seizure, you need to have some type of probable cause that someone’s already committing a crime and that probable cause standard that’s going to look different depending on if it’s a federal agency versus if it’s a state agency case law is going to have different standards. I wish I could give a single answer to this. Everything in legal. Well, it depends. That’s my answer. But yeah, I know it’s a big topic right now, and I think we’re going to see more of it, and that’s why I want paralegals and law firms to be prepared for this potential increase in caseload and make sure that at the end of the day, people’s right are protected. That’s

Tony Sipp:

I absolutely agree, and I’m so happy to get to know you and know that you’re on the side of the Constitution. Yes, absolutely. Making people right. The Fourth Amendment still matters. The First Amendment still matters. The Bill of Rights still matter.

Corrin Swintosky:

Yes.

Tony Sipp:

So it’s really fantastic that you’re doing what you’re doing and you’re so passionate about what you’re doing. Let’s take a quick commercial break, and we’re going to come back and we’re going to ask Corrine 21 yes or no questions on the other side of this break. We’ll be right back and welcome back to the Paralegal Voice. I’m here with Corrine. So Corrine, we have 21 yes or no questions for you. These are fun. I think you can answer them, and I think they’re going to be well. Interesting. So are you ready?

Corrin Swintosky:

Yes, I’m ready.

Tony Sipp:

All right. First question, have you ever drafted a legal document while listening to a True Crime podcast?

Corrin Swintosky:

No, actually. So that’s interesting. You would think Yes, but when I’m drafting a legal document, I feel like the true crime stuff in the background, I’d get confused with the facts of the case. I’d use the facts from the True Crime Podcast in my legal document, and then the judge and the attorney’s going to be like, what is this? So in order to keep my story straight, no.

Tony Sipp:

Okay. Have you ever used legal jargon in a casual text message?

Corrin Swintosky:

Yes. I was trying to describe a very interesting dynamic or situation within a social setting to a group of my friends, and I think I said something to the extent of the juxtaposition of it all was so intriguing, and they’re like, the what? But then typing it out, I’m kind of thinking, this is a little weird, but for lack of a better term, it’s what I got to say.

Tony Sipp:

That’s funny. That is funny. Have you ever had a client thank you with big goods?

Corrin Swintosky:

No. No. And I don’t need that. Just a simple thank you. I appreciate you, is enough for me.

Tony Sipp:

I agree. Do you believe coffee counts as a legal assistant?

Corrin Swintosky:

I’m going to say no. Okay. No.

Tony Sipp:

Okay. Have you ever worked on a case involving a pet

Corrin Swintosky:

Involving a pet? I don’t think so, no.

Tony Sipp:

Do you think legal tech would eventually replace paper entirely?

Corrin Swintosky:

I want to say yes. But knowing the legal system in the court system, probably not. No. There’ll always be some form of paper and we need a paper trail, so no.

Tony Sipp:

Right. Have you ever used color coded spreadsheets for case tracking?

Corrin Swintosky:

Yes. When I first started my business, I did that before I moved into a case management system.

Tony Sipp:

Do you secretly enjoy Courtroom drama shows, even if they’re inaccurate?

Corrin Swintosky:

This is a more nuanced yes or no. Yes, but there is a threshold to too much drama. There has to be a good balance of legal legalese and some form of accuracy in addition to the drama. If there’s shows that are completely about the drama, I can’t do it. I’m sorry.

Tony Sipp:

I got you. I got you. Have you ever had a dream about filing an expungement?

Corrin Swintosky:

No. No. It has not worked its way into my dream. That’s hilarious. No, not that I can

Tony Sipp:

Recall. Have you ever created a playlist specifically for drafting motions?

Corrin Swintosky:

I have not created a playlist. No. I usually just throw on a lo-fi playlist from YouTube, but maybe I should create one. That’s a great idea.

Tony Sipp:

I don’t know. I’ve done the same thing. Have you ever created a workflow that made someone say, whoa, this is magic?

Corrin Swintosky:

Yes. Yes. I’m very big on simplicity.

Tony Sipp:

Yes. Yes. I’m with you on that. Do you believe clemency work should be taught in every law school?

Corrin Swintosky:

Yes, absolutely.

Tony Sipp:

I agree. I agree. Do you have a favorite courthouse?

Corrin Swintosky:

Favorite courthouse? I have to say the St. Paul Courthouse in Minnesota. It’s a historic building, and it is beautiful. They have black marble walls, white marble floors. I mean, it’s just gorgeous. It’s beautiful. So for that, yes.

Tony Sipp:

Nice. It’s an interesting one. Do you think cannabis decriminalization will be nationwide in the next five years?

Corrin Swintosky:

I’m sorry to say. No, not in the next five years. I think it’s going to take a little longer, unfortunately.

Tony Sipp:

Have to agree. Have you ever had to explain what a paralegal does at a dinner party?

Corrin Swintosky:

Oh, yes. Oh, yes. Actually, I’m living with my boyfriend right now, and when he introduces me as a paralegal, he’s like, I don’t know what that is, but that’s what she does. So then I have to jump in and be like, so here’s what I do.

Tony Sipp:

Right, right, right. Have you ever typed expungement so many times you started spelling it wrong?

Corrin Swintosky:

Probably those late nights. Yes. Yeah.

Tony Sipp:

Do you think paralegals should get their own reality show?

Corrin Swintosky:

Yes, absolutely. Especially after being at Nala. Oh, man. Yes.

Tony Sipp:

Yeah, it was exciting. It was exciting. So have you ever celebrated a successful expungement with a dance?

Corrin Swintosky:

I was in the car. Does that count? It counts. I was driving and I did a little woo-hoo dance. Yes.

Tony Sipp:

That is funny. Well, Corinne, it’s been a pleasure having you on the Paralegal Voice podcast. Yeah. I love what you’re doing. I love that you’re doing the Access for Justice. I love that your heart’s in the right place, and you’re passionate about this and doing freelance because a lot of people are scared to go into that field, and you did it boldly, and you’re very successful in what you’re doing, and I wish you even more success in the future. So if anybody listens to the show and they want to get in contact with you, what’s the best way for them to reach you?

Corrin Swintosky:

Absolutely. Yeah. Thank you so much, Tony. I appreciate your time and getting to know you as well. I’m super active on LinkedIn. Honestly, if you want to follow anything that I’m doing, LinkedIn is the place you can follow me. My name, Corinn Wanky or my business Lucid Legal Support. In addition, my website’s also really great resource to follow me on my mailing list. It’s just lucid legal support.com. And I also do an amateur YouTube channel. So if you’re interested in trying to learn more information about these types of topics, it’s specifically geared towards criminal paralegals, feel free to subscribe or check it out as well.

Tony Sipp:

Excellent. Trent, it’s been great talking to you. We can do this again. We most likely will. Thank you for being our guest. We only have the most illustrious guest on the show, so thank you for being on our show. And folks, thank you for listening to the Paralegal Voice podcast. My name is Tony Sipp, and we’ll see you next time.

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