Muckraking, Lovable, and Why Nobody Cares About Your Firm’s LinkedIn Page

Episode Notes

Transcript

Gyi Tsakalakis (00:34)

Conrad, I see you are wearing your beautiful cowboy hat.

 

Conrad Saam (00:40)

Complete with Mockingbird branding, I might very nice. I I wore this for multiplicity of reasons. I’ve also got the go blue team going on.

 

Gyi Tsakalakis (00:51)

blue. R you’re

 

really trying to rile up the trolls today, aren’t you?

 

Conrad Saam (00:55)

Well, I wore this the other night to watch I got home from something. I was at a class. I got home on Saturday night, popped on the Michigan game, watched us barely squeak out a it was a good win. It wasn’t great. I’ll take a one and one Michigan team that’s currently ranked at two and

 

Gyi Tsakalakis (01:16)

There you go.

 

Conrad Saam (01:17)

And then I put on the cowboy hat to cheer Texas on in the Ohio game and

 

I turned it off at the end of the third quarter ’cause I hate watching Ohio win and boy boy did I miss the end of a great game.

 

Gyi Tsakalakis (01:31)

I stayed up. I was falling asleep and I was like, No, I’m staying up because you never know and Texas pulled it off, must have been because you were wearing your hat.

 

Conrad Saam (01:41)

Well, no, because I was watching it on I wasn’t watching in real time. This was all recorded. I was like one AM falling asleep and I’m like, this is ridiculous. So but I also wore my cowboy hat because we’re ready to announce the location and dates for Lunch How Legal Marketing Summit three point

 

Gyi Tsakalakis (01:59)

Yes, in the classic us fashion, we haven’t actually confirmed the event space, but we are ready to announce the dates of May fourth through sixth in Austin, Texas.

 

Conrad Saam (02:11)

Austin, looking forward to seeing you. That was an overwhelming favorite among the attendees of where they wanted to go next. I thought about just staying in Nashville because Nashville was so fun. But we did get feedback that people like going, A, to new places and B to interesting venues. And so you will get a very interesting venue coming to you from Lunch Hour Legal Marketing Summit.

 

Gyi Tsakalakis (02:35)

What’s the temperature in Austin, Texas in May?

 

Conrad Saam (02:39)

Hotter than Seattle. I don’t know. But hopefully

 

well they will also we also did ensure that we so we kicked one venue because it was too big for two reasons. Number one, I didn’t want to worry about the air conditioning ever again when we did a conference. So we have guaranteed quiet air conditioning at our our new venue. And I also didn’t want to deal with the the the venue that I kind of liked and dug was it was like a massive indoor storage unit. And

 

Gyi Tsakalakis (03:14)

I like that one too.

 

Conrad Saam (03:15)

It I’m telling you the acoustics, like not being there, the acoustics were g were probably going to be problematic. I think that was a good call to not do that. That was my opinion. Good acoustics. Good acoustics are important, huh?

 

Gyi Tsakalakis (03:28)

Yeah.

 

Conrad Saam (03:30)

We’ll have enough room for t-shirt cannons. We may have dueling t-shirt cannons at the next event because we just this morning delivered another one to a client.

 

Gyi Tsakalakis (03:39)

Very nice. And speaking of good acoustics, I am broadcasting from my hotel room at the Case Status CX Summit, where tomorrow you, Conrad, will be joining me on stage for stage for a live broadcast of Lunch Hour Legal Marketing. And so if you’re a LHLM fan and you’re at the summit, be sure to stick around for Lunch Hour Legal Marketing live at noon in Charleston, South Carolina tomorrow.

 

Conrad Saam (04:08)

I will see I’m I’m red eyeing and then I’m flying right back.

 

Gyi Tsakalakis (04:12)

You are a true road warrior.

 

Conrad Saam (04:15)

In a Marriott, like you’re sitting in the most generic Marriott ever. I know this. So

 

Gyi Tsakalakis (04:21)

I’m sitting in the Emaline actually and it is not generic at all. In fact there’s a record player here and a lot of boutique little touches that I’m actually enjoying. So

 

Conrad Saam (04:31)

Lamborghini of chain hotel.

 

Gyi Tsakalakis (04:37)

I don’t know anything about Lamborghinis, Conrad. But we’re not here to talk about all of that. We are here to answer our sweet, sweet listener questions. did you have one that you wanted to start with? We have a bunch today, so thank you. We’ve got questions.

 

Conrad Saam (04:53)

But I wanted to spill some tea. I got some

 

Gyi Tsakalakis (04:56)

yes, you have some more news.

 

Conrad Saam (04:58)

dirty underhanded ugliness

 

Gyi Tsakalakis (05:01)

That’s what we’re here for.

 

Conrad Saam (05:01)

from the business of law. I posted a while ago, I was at a conference, and there were a bunch of Supio people there with glowing backpacks that flashed Supio and peeled that onion back. Turns out that their competitor, even up, had forbidden.

 

The the deal that they had with that even up s secured was to not allow Supio to have a booth at the event. And so the Supio people attended the event with their brand blinking on the on on backpacks. I also recall there was a plane that flew over a conference in which even up had basically paid to stop Supio from being around.

 

From my understanding, business of law yesterday called the even up competitors and told them that they were no longer welcome, even though they were sponsors and had booths and had shipped all that information. That conference, I believe, is next week. The business of law and kind of dirty pool here, last minute pulling the rug out from a bunch of vendors. You know, if I was

 

If I was at the risk of doing the Texas thing too far, you know, James has made a really big thing about Ken Paxton refusing to have a debate. I would if I was a marketing person at one of the even up competitors, I would make a big song and dance about why even up is spending so much money to prevent people from learning about the competition. But that’s just

 

Gyi Tsakalakis (06:44)

Will you be at Business of Law, Conrad?

 

Conrad Saam (06:47)

I will not be a business of law.

 

Gyi Tsakalakis (06:49)

I was gonna say it might be interesting coverage for Lunch or Legal Marketing to interview. Ooh.

 

Conrad Saam (06:55)

Maybe I should go to the business of law and muckrake a little further. By the way, along those lines, if if the the VP of marketing over at Even Up would like to get a little time on the Lunch Hour High Legal Marketing Podcast and explain why they’re so afraid to have their competitors in front of lawyers, we would love to have you.

 

Gyi Tsakalakis (07:15)

Well, I’m not s but you know, now we’re gonna it’s gonna be funny here ’cause we’re gonna be contradict ourselves. Because do you think that our sponsor Eve would appreciate you bringing even up?

 

Conrad Saam (07:25)

Eve is a sponsor and I’ll pander. Watch this, I’m gonna have a a drink from my Eve mug.

 

Gyi Tsakalakis (07:32)

Yes. And we have to remember to thank Eve tomorrow because Eve is here at CX Summit for their support of Lunch Arlegal Marketing Summit and all things lunch hour.

 

Conrad Saam (07:44)

So yeah, fair fair point. I suspect

 

Gyi Tsakalakis (07:47)

See we’re doing the same thing.

 

Conrad Saam (07:48)

will not take us up on our offer to answer a question as to why they’re afraid to have competitors out there. and I suspect also if they did, Eve and Filevine and Supio would all be happy to hear them answer that.

 

Gyi Tsakalakis (08:08)

Okay, there it is. Breaking news.

 

Conrad Saam (08:11)

Breaking

 

news and muck raking brought to you Lunch Legal Marketing.

 

Gyi Tsakalakis (08:15)

Maker again.

 

Conrad Saam (08:16)

Right,

 

we’ve got questions, right?

 

Let’s get to the good stuff.

 

Gyi Tsakalakis (08:21)

Questions. Yes, let’s start with our first question here. this question was posted in the lunch hour legal marketing Slack community. We’re getting ready to launch our new website at the end of the month. Thanks, Mockingbird. So this is a Mockingbird website project. I’ll leave it up to you if you want to.

 

Conrad Saam (08:41)

You can tell who it is.

 

Gyi Tsakalakis (08:44)

It well it’s your client, so you you tell us.

 

Conrad Saam (08:46)

This is our good friend Tim Semelroth

 

Gyi Tsakalakis (08:50)

Yes, this is it’s actually Kelly and

 

Conrad Saam (08:55)

Live

 

yeah.

 

Gyi Tsakalakis (08:57)

Okay. That’s right. And anyways, she’s coming. what can we do to make sure there’s a successful launch? To be fair, we’ve discussed this with the Mockingbird team, but I think it’s an excellent topic. We agree. Also, how can we keep momentum after we have launch? Conrad, what is the Mockingbird team doing in the lead up to launch to make sure that it’s successful? And what are some things that you think that

 

RSH legal should be doing to keep that momentum going after launch.

 

Conrad Saam (09:32)

So I’ll give you the the one thing that is the thing that makes me most nervous about relaunching a site. and most of the time when people talk about relaunching sites, I remember this conversation. This was kind of the theme for a while ago. Like, hey, your SEO is gonna get hurt for a while. We don’t know how long it’s gonna get hurt, but it’ll come back. And that was kind of the guiding fear that people had when they relaunched a website. We have found by and large that to not be the true, and/or it is so.

 

Temporal that it’s a non issue. and so

 

Gyi Tsakalakis (10:06)

This I I I would respond, would react to that this way. It depends on how much change there is, because you know, if it’s if from and from a technical standpoint, right? If you’re doing a if it’s a pure migration, you’re and you’re doing a a URL for URL, contents the same, maybe there’s some stylistic things, even though style I think that this I think the stylistic changes, those usually fall in the bucket, but the things you’re talking about, it’s not gonna have a huge impact, but

 

You know, if you all of a sudden if you’re say you’re on WordPress and we’re gonna talk about that in a second, but if you’re on WordPress and you make a theme change, and that theme change all of a sudden on every page, there’s multiple H one tags or there’s a lot more styling and a lot less content, and it’s not just straight, you know, the the more change there is, the bigger risk there is for that to have an impact in Google. So

 

Conrad Saam (10:53)

But the change you just said basically means a worse website.

 

Gyi Tsakalakis (10:58)

It it’s I I so I would say that it is a you know, you say worst. I say a lot of times web development companies that don’t have digital marketing shops, they’re not thinking about a lot of this stuff. I mean, back in the day we would see always see, you know, we switched to flash and now the site’s not crawlable, right? There’s nothing there for to crawl, or it’s in JavaScript, or they’re not actually doing a URL to URL.

 

you know, they’re not crawling the site and making sure that post launch there’s gonna be all the same URLs and and doing an you know an SEO audit on the dev server before it goes live. You know, companies like Mockingbird and AttorneySync, of course, do those things to pander to ourselves. But the the my point is is a lot of people just think website and they don’t think about the technical infrastructure, the architecture, the impact of theme, and all that kind of stuff. So

 

Conrad Saam (11:48)

so I’ll I’ll go back to like I think that like launch new website, have temporal loss is is less of something that I worry about at this point in time. Dramatically less. The

 

Gyi Tsakalakis (11:58)

I think that’s right.

 

Conrad Saam (11:59)

thing that scares the crap out of me is a broken contact. Right? Sure. The form doesn’t work, the tracking phone numbers foobarred. that scares the crap out of me. And and and there’s lots of testing that you can do before you launch to make sure that.

 

you minimize the likelihood that that’s gonna happen. the more forms you have, the more like the more places they are to break, the more different locations that they can go to. And so the the conversion, phone call, form, fill, text, or chat, like that terrifies me. So yeah, you test before you launch, ideally not in a really busy time when you’re getting a whole bunch of inbounds, and you test again. Like that, that piece I think is is really, really important.

 

We also go through a bug bash, period. And that is best done with the firm and with us, where you’re just basically walking through the site looking for anything that looks hinky. multiple browsers, that type of thing. It’s it’s a really dull thing to do. it’s really important. yeah.

 

Gyi Tsakalakis (13:04)

And I think the and you know you know to your point about the other the other thing that’s in that realm with the contact stuff, because again, a lot of times it’s easy if not easy, but it’s less of an issue if they’ve got you know one contact form. But a lot of times you’ll find firms that have had like they have like legacy systems, old CRMs, variety of contacts, some you know, calendly integration, scheduling integration, scripts, you know, ad scripts, and that kind of stuff. And a lot of that stuff is also really important to.

 

to check to make sure that you know you’re actually your site still works from all the things that you’re doing from a media standpoint.

 

Conrad Saam (13:41)

Old

 

plugins, right? All in one SEO plugin. Like, what is that overriding or not overriding? Like, there are there can be all sorts of ways to foobar this. the next points that I have on website launch are are more kind of high-level philosophical. Number one is this is dynamic. It does not have to be perfect before you launch it. And regardless, even if it is at perfect when you launch it, the whole plan needs to be continued to make it better.

 

Right. Whether that’s content perspective, whether that’s A B testing on XYZ page. so I say this to lawyers with a like, done is better than perfect. That’s one of our core values here. And you’ve got to get stuff up and you’ve got to evolve things. So I just said like, I’m terrified of making some major problems, right? So be afraid of those problems, but like get it launched and and continue to iterate. This is never a

 

We’ve just done a website and it’ll be there as it is for the next three years. So I think that is really, really important. And the final thing I’ll say is you have to assume that you completely fuck it up somehow and go back and make sure that the data doesn’t go stupid after you launch. And sometimes it goes stupid good, right? And sometimes like when we do a massive content consolidation, like you you will see the improvement right off the bat.

 

Sometimes it can go stupid bad, but like you have to assume that it’s going to go stupid and really carefully watch the numbers. And and those numbers are your standard, you know, how are we performing and things? what kind of and I know you hate traffic, but like what happens to traffic coming to the site? What happens? Like you can find out if you have one of those conversion problems by watching conversions drop off a cliff right after you do a relaunch. Like you might figure out that’s where the problem is. So you have to watch your kind of key numbers and assume that it is gonna go bad.

 

And then it won’t go bad. And if you don’t watch those key numbers, something is gonna go foobar and you’re not gonna know about it for three weeks, and then it that’s a problem.

 

Gyi Tsakalakis (15:46)

Yeah. No, but I I mean a lot of this stuff you gotta, in my opinion, post launch, you gotta keep your eyes on it. someone’s got it, you can’t just like you already said, you can’t just let it just assume that it’s gonna fly. I’d be crawling the site, I’d be putting in all your third party tools, you know, make sure that the URLs everything’s looking good in Search Console, all that kind of stuff. the other thing that I want to bring up, this is just to be clear, this was a redesign, not a switch to a new domain, right?

 

Conrad Saam (16:15)

correct.

 

Gyi Tsakalakis (16:16)

Because that’s the other thing too, is like sometimes if you’re moving domains, a lot of those problems that we talked about from a technical standpoint even loom larger. And the other thing that I always suggest that you do, you know, if you change domains, you gotta go update all your profiles. You gotta go update your Google Business profile, you gotta go update local you know, citations and all that kind of stuff. So it’s a much bigger thing with a new domain than it’s just like a website redesign.

 

Conrad Saam (16:40)

When H I’m just trying to remember the last time we did a domain change. I I that it that I don’t like that by and large. Sure. It

 

Gyi Tsakalakis (16:50)

No

 

Conrad Saam (16:50)

adds complexity problems. It it has a that will have an SEO impact, right?

 

Gyi Tsakalakis (16:57)

Yep, but we as we know and you know in the context of lawyers you know, partnerships breaking up or all this kind of stuff, sometimes those assets are owned by one partner and changes need to be made and so it’s a

 

Conrad Saam (17:12)

So plan for that right now because your good buddy Jimmy is gonna make it a pain in the ass when you guys wanna break up.

 

Gyi Tsakalakis (17:19)

Old Jimmy. Jimmy Okay, what things post launch can you do to keep the momentum going? So how do you feel about big big announcements about site launches? Because you see that a lot in the market where people are like, Hey, we launched a new website. Do you make a big PR thing out of that?

 

Right. Sure.

 

Conrad Saam (17:38)

Well,

 

honestly, like if that’s what you have PR about, you have a different problem. I you know, I I think the momentum is more this mindset that, like, this is not done. Like, this is this project is not done. It’s like having an old antique car. You will never get it to a point where it is going to consistently run and be as good as it can be because it is going to require effort all the time.

 

The website thing, and I I think many lawyers have this mindset. Many small lawyers have this small mindset that here’s my website, it is done. We will change it out in five years. And and and it’s got SEO on it. I paid for some SEO. My website has SEO on it, and I don’t need to do anything else. And if that is your mindset, you are wrong and you’ve been less misled by someone who wanted to sell you a website. So it is not, it’s it’s it it’s a mindset. This is there the momentum.

 

You’re just starting, man. Like that new site, you’re just starting. So like it is a constantly evolving, improving effort.

 

Gyi Tsakalakis (18:44)

I always like to use the gardening analogy, right? It’s a garden. You gotta you gotta weed the garden. You gotta plant new stuff in the garden. Like I don’t know why I’m not even a gardener, but

 

Conrad Saam (18:54)

I was gonna say, I don’t think you have that card.

 

Gyi Tsakalakis (18:57)

It just fits. I mean, old, you know, old cars. I don’t I don’t tinker with old cars, so I don’t know anything about that, but it sounds like I don’t

 

Conrad Saam (19:02)

Let me change your oil.

 

Gyi Tsakalakis (19:04)

even change my or aligned my tires. All right. Another question. Go. I moved my site off of WordPress to level.

 

Conrad Saam (19:13)

God.

 

Gyi Tsakalakis (19:14)

I was just told by another vendor that WordPress is the authority in the space, and pretty much I ruined my chance at Google pushing our firm as a credible source.

 

for the work in my area. Interest and opinions here. Also doing the same with the acquired firm taking away from Squarespace to lovable. Will there be we’ll then be redirecting to our site by leaving the site up and having a message on the site. Hour firm has the same practice air location phone number. So let’s let’s just talk about this lovable WordPress versus lovable, right? What is lovable, Conrad?

 

Conrad Saam (19:49)

So let me hit one point first.

 

Gyi Tsakalakis (19:52)

Okay.

 

Conrad Saam (19:52)

Google doesn’t like WordPress.

 

Gyi Tsakalakis (19:55)

It’s

 

Conrad Saam (19:57)

Fucking

 

care. A bad WordPress site, like you can completely foobar a a WordPress site because it is so easy to do in WordPress. So Google doesn’t not this whole concept that like it’s got to be WordPress is stupid. now.

 

Gyi Tsakalakis (20:15)

I mean, static H if you want to be real about it, static H Google probably loves static HTML the best because it’s flat, it’s very crawlable, you don’t have JavaScript issues, it’s not database dread, it’s got speed. and in fact, you see a lot of you know, if you if you can do it, I and I think this is gonna be the big question as we get into the lovable thing is with AI, can you start coding sites in a way with static HTML or you know, non data?

 

You know, because you don’t need a coder to actually write the H HTML, the AI can write HTML and you take the database issues out of it. But let’s talk about lovable real quick.

 

Conrad Saam (20:50)

So this came up, I mean, lovable came up on our mastermind on Thursday, last Thursday. So this is very new. Scott, who I wanted to fling out of the meeting when he said this permanently, but Scott was like, Hey, I we just rebuilt all of our sites in lovable, and I heard that Google loves it and it’s SEO friendly and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So it’s a real question: should you move to lovable? The the question that I would pose.

 

And I and I have a sneaking suspicion, and it is only suspicion. I can’t validate this. Is does giving up control of code to AI provide a better technical platform for Google than you would otherwise have, then you could do with your own control. And I will use an analogy on this. I can tell you with a high level of certainty.

 

We talked about firm pilot the other day, and there was another one like the AI put agencies out of business work that you we interviewed and bungled the interview on at tech show. Mega mega, thank you. I don’t believe at this point handing over the reins makes sense. in other channels, and I would also continue that perspective.

 

as it pertains to the code of your site and what you can then do. and so having said that, I could be wrong, right? I don’t have to be right about this. I’m just telling you I think you’re wrong.

 

Gyi Tsakalakis (22:27)

Well, you’re not wrong. I I think it’s so it goes back to the same idea, right? There’s like there’s different website buyer personas. If you want to have essentially, you know, so let’s talk it’s it’s always about trade-offs, right? Everything’s trade-offs. WordPress, global world of developers, released on the open source end user license.

 

Lot of advantages. Mo anybody that’s a there’s so many WordPress people out there that you’re not going to have a hard time getting somebody to you know work with you. And you know, all and there’s ways that you can do things to to your point to control lockdown, you know, and tracking changes and locking down code and integrations, you know, because again, I a lot of this stuff’s newer. That but then there are people that you know what, honestly, for their website, Squarespace are

 

proprietary they to they don’t it’s it’s a brochure site that it’s not a garden like Conrad and Gyi are talking about could be could be a proprietary platform you know you can build your GoDaddy site builder you you’re you know you’re you don’t want to make a big investment because like let’s face it these websites like people put a lot of money into them especially as they’re gardening or tinkering with them as old cars now now there’s this new thing out there that’s like there’s this technology that can potentially write the code of your websites

 

All of the things that you and I talk about for vibe coding software, websites just software. It’s this all the same issues. It’s so if you are savvy enough to be maintaining and security and contact forms and all the tech, you know, all the technology interactions and integrations, and you want to and you’ve got somebody on your team that’s going to maintain that, or you’re working with an agency. But to the point though, the root question here, Google doesn’t care. Google sends a robot out to crawl the site and look for these things and

 

If as long as whatever comes out of Lovable has those things, it doesn’t matter. It doesn’t matter what the underlying builder of the site is doing. But I do think there are trade offs. but on the other hand, you know, sites like Lovable, you can literally talk your way to new web pages and new web designs. Yeah. That’s both that’s the that’s the advantage. So you

 

Conrad Saam (24:37)

know, I work with a bunch of nonprofits and they one of them came to me six, nine months ago wanting a new site, and I was like, You should do this on with with Claude. And that’s what they did, right? So like instead of dropping some of their nonprofit money with Mockingbird, they built it with Claude. It took an afternoon and it’ll look like it does for the next three years until someone decides that they want a new like it’s fine. It’s fine.

 

Gyi Tsakalakis (25:05)

Speaking of, our good friend the hometown lawyer is joining us for office hours today. Great.

 

Conrad Saam (25:11)

Why

 

from Hamilton, New York? Hamilton, Ohio. Why did I say I’m so

 

Gyi Tsakalakis (25:17)

he’s really he’s gone franchise. He’s really gone franchise.

 

Conrad Saam (25:19)

programs to not talk about ohio that I replaced ohio with live from Hamilton Ohio how often could a website be rebuilt

 

Gyi Tsakalakis (25:30)

Yes. And so, you know, again, this is a this is one of those annoying answers. It it depends, right? So, like if you’re on Flash, it should have been rebuilt 10 years ago. but from a I think the question’s more about like from a design standpoint. And look, we s you can see the evolution of design on the internet progress, right? And once it starts to look like it’s an old site that you built in the nineties.

 

That’s too long. Is there a right number of years for a total redesign? I don’t know. But I’m I’m back to gardening. Like I’m planting seeds and adding things all the time. But if you twisted my arm, you know, and I own a web marketing agency, I’d be saying, you know, every couple of years, if if if not a full rebuild, certainly a refresh. And I and I think that the timelines are going to speed up because as the technology in improves.

 

It’s it makes that old those old sites look old faster.

 

Conrad Saam (26:31)

I think one of things you have to take into account here is volume and and the upside of the redesign. What do I mean by that? If you are doing pulling this out of the air, if you’re doing 1,000 contacts a week, phone call, form fill, text or chat. You’re doing 1,000 contacts a week. I think it’s valid to try and improve your conversion rate. You talked about design to try and improve your conversion rate by 1%.

 

Every year, man.

 

Gyi Tsakalakis (27:03)

ongoing. Ongoing.

 

Conrad Saam (27:04)

Yeah,

 

ongo like like it’s a perpetual redesign, right?

 

Gyi Tsakalakis (27:07)

If you have enough data to be able to do actual testing, like split testing and multivariate testing, like great.

 

Conrad Saam (27:15)

It’s it’s ongoing. And so I think I think that is the answer is somewhat it’s infinite. On the flip side, if you’re if you’re getting ten inbound leads a month from your website.

 

I wouldn’t drop a twenty thousand ten a ten thousand dollars spend to improve that ten by one percent. Right? Nope. There

 

Gyi Tsakalakis (27:43)

Yeah. Whoops.

 

Conrad Saam (27:45)

we go.

 

Gyi Tsakalakis (27:46)

Anyway, yeah, I think that’s right. I mean, again, like everything else, it’s investment and impact, right? How much is it going to cost you to make the switch? you know, what kind of impact is it gonna have on our business? I tend to think the lawyers like they they’re really they want to know, you know, does my website look old? Does it need a refresh? And, you know, because again, I mean, look, I don’t wanna I don’t wanna cast aspersions against any other any particular website company.

 

But you can tell I come, I land on websites from some of the some of the really big companies, you know, some of the major like enterprise level legal marketing companies, and you look at their website and you’re like, Yeah, I can tell this hasn’t you haven’t done anything to the site since you know the last 25 years. And it’s obvious. And I think users are it that’s an impact on users. And and so for me, from a marketing standpoint, it’s like, you know, if you come to if you if you

 

To each their own. If your brand is, I’m a 1970s lawyer and you show up in like bell bottoms and like, you know, whatever the look of the 70s is, and that’s your jam, that’s your market position, great. But a lot of people are gonna be like, it doesn’t look like you’re putting much investment in technology or experience. that maybe, maybe you lack you know, tech competency because it looks like you’re not really updating anything. And so I think there’s a

 

an aspect to the impact on the potential client from the website design standpoint. And and that’s what I think lawyers really want to know about. And, you know, it depends on the site. Like some sites can get a buy longer if they’re you know, if they don’t look so dated.

 

Conrad Saam (29:24)

I’ll give you here’s the other part of this. And and we we’re we’re we’ve been talking about look and feel and conversion rates. There’s also a my platform’s dated. I’m on WordPress 2.7. yeah. So that is that is, I don’t want to miss that part of this. I I I do think that you end up with security issues when you do that. You end up with limited, like your site will look and function old, and it’ll perform old from an SEO perspective if you’re still working on 2.7, right? And so right.

 

Gyi Tsakalakis (29:54)

And if it you know again, if it if some of these technical issues are impacting speed, if they’re impacting rendering, if they’re impacting crawlability and indexation, then yes, then those those those are more pressing rebuild issues.

 

What else? What other questions do we have? We have anything else here today? yeah, we’ve got we have Mike Howard’s question about posting on a

 

Conrad Saam (30:19)

Do

 

we wanna do we wanna wait until no, cause we’re gonna be live tomorrow. Live tomorrow.

 

Gyi Tsakalakis (30:23)

be live tomorrow. So we’re gonna be doing interviews and taking live questions from the audience tomorrow. So Howard

 

Conrad Saam (30:30)

So we’re not gonna

 

Gyi Tsakalakis (30:32)

go ahead. you want do you have that handy or do you want me to

 

Conrad Saam (30:34)

I got it I got it handy for you. I’ve and this is again about updating things. I’ve got a question that might be good for the podcast. What strategy do you recommend regarding publishing content on your personal LinkedIn page versus your firm’s LinkedIn page?

 

Gyi Tsakalakis (30:51)

Yep. The short answer is no one cares about your firm’s LinkedIn page. In fact, LinkedIn doesn’t seem to care about your firm’s LinkedIn page because reach of company pages on LinkedIn and a bunch of the other metrics that you might use to measure, you know, they’re they’re it’s it’s harder to get reach. However, if you ask if you twist a marm, I’d be I’d be doing both. I think it’s important to to brand the firm and not just be a practitioner alone. So I’d be doing both, but re and and are there distinctions? Sure. You know, if the firm’s doing a community event.

 

Hey, come see the firm at this community event. You post that on your page. And then I would repost that with my personal profile. you know, personal stories and that kind of stuff I do on your personal profile. And I would do vice versa too. And we do this as well, where like I’ll say something and then I’ll repost it on the attorney sync page, or I might cut it up in a different way. But I I’m for me, it is so competitive out there, and there’s so much going on that any assets that you have that you can deliver content to that people actually want to.

 

You know, subscribe to and engage, I’d be posting that all over the place.

 

Conrad Saam (31:56)

We I’m just going by this anecdotally. This is not data that we have. We have not talked about LinkedIn corporate pages in the AI conversations. We haven’t, I’m again anecdotal. Like we have not talked about LinkedIn business pages showing up in SEO. it’s really fascinating the extent to which this is something we have not at the risk of quoting.

 

Sherlock Holmes, the hound that didn’t bark in the night, that was the unusual event, right? We haven’t talked about this. I’ll say this. I do think your LinkedIn core, I think you need to think about the objective of the LinkedIn corporate profile. And I think a component of that is going to be recruiting. And so I think you need to think through like, okay, LinkedIn may not be why someone hires me for their car accident, but it is certainly something that is going to

 

Come into play from a recruiting perspective. And I will bridge this to Glassdoor. we have never talked about Glassdoor on this pod, I don’t think. But from a recruiting perspective, I would be thinking about what are those corporate directories, Glassdoor being one of them, LinkedIn being one of them. Those are the two that come to mind right off the bat. You can think through something else if you want. But like what are those corporate research directories?

 

venues from a recruiting perspective. And I would be all over how you appear on Glassdoor and LinkedIn from a corporate perspective for specifically for recruiting.

 

Gyi Tsakalakis (33:34)

I think the other thing that I think about again, I know this is a question was specific to LinkedIn, but it’s really true of any platform that allows you to have both personal and professional pages or profiles. And it’s the same thing. It’s it’s like you know, you got a Facebook page. Now, Facebook, different, but Facebook pages they allow reviews. And guess what? Because Facebook is such a big site, it shows up for brand searches. You see Facebook pages and search results, and you see

 

Aggregate review markup and stars and and they show up in your in underneath in your Google Business profiles. And so again, for me, like and I get it’s I don’t want it to turn into like do all the things because that’s not constructive, but I would prioritize publishing and sending happy clients and doing giveaways and local community events to business pages as well and help promote those with your personal page. But I just I I think you’re leaving something on, especially if your firm is you know, a little bit more established, you have a team.

 

It’s you you can’t solely rely on personal profiles in this context, in my opinion. You gotta you gotta be publishing to both.

 

Conrad Saam (34:41)

Agreed.

 

Gyi Tsakalakis (34:43)

That it’s that now strategically, you know, we just kind of said you should publish. Well, what about what strategic differences might you do? I I guess I kind of alluded to it with the you know, community events. you know, I I I like the I like this a lot of firms will like highlight team members, you know, team member anniversaries or they’re doing things culturally. I think that goes to the recruiting conversation as well. But guess what? Your potential clients see that too. You know, they see how you treat your team members, they see you celebrating your team members.

 

And by the way, your team members, if you’re a bigger firm, they’re the people oftentimes that the clients have more experience with. And so they want to they want to go out and like. I mean, I see this all the time. Firm will go out and be like, we’re doing a team lunch. And people and they’ll put it on the firm page on Facebook. And people will be engaged with the firm page because they recognize a lot of the people at the lunch because they’re the people who are actually on the ground with client communication and that kind of stuff. And so I think it’s that’s a

 

It’s a good avenue to highlight your team and to highlight stuff you’re doing in the community. and so strategically, maybe that’s the difference. Like maybe and again, I would still say why not do it on both places, but that’s like one strategic thing that I’d use the pages for.

 

Conrad Saam (35:54)

Agreed. Sorry. I got nothing more to add. Okay.

 

Gyi Tsakalakis (35:59)

Do you have any other questions?

 

Conrad Saam (36:00)

I have no other questions.

 

Gyi Tsakalakis (36:02)

Well, thank you to the hometown lawyer, and thank you to those of you who are lurking. And thanks to those who submitted questions. if you have other questions, please don’t hesitate to hit us up. also feel free to join the Lunch Hour Legal Marketing Slack community if you don’t have access to that. Shoot us in a link, Lunch Hour Legal Marketing, a message on LinkedIn or wherever else you get lunch hour legal marketing. And Conrad,

 

Safe travels to you. I look forward to seeing you tomorrow at Case Status’s CX Summit where we’ll be recording live. That will be live streaming also. So get over to the Case Status YouTube page if you want to watch us bungle our live session with hotel wifi.

 

Conrad Saam (36:44)

hotel wifi. Don’t sponsor the Wi-Fi. God.

 

Gyi Tsakalakis (36:49)

but we’re gonna do our best. And we’ll record it also so that we can drop it in the feed. But until next time, Conrad and Gyi Conrad Slight got something to say.

 

Conrad Saam (36:58)

No,

 

I just had an evil thought.

 

Gyi Tsakalakis (37:01)

Very nice.

 

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