Grassroots Marketing the Earley Way: How This Attorney Punches Above His Weight in The Big City

Episode Notes

Transcript

Conrad Saam (00:54)

All right welcome everyone. I’m here with Christopher Earley We have only met in person passingly at a couple of conferences. but you have done an amazing job in a pretty big and aggressive market, Boston. and you’re not one of the massive players. at least from looking in from the outside, it looks like you are the mid-sized firm doing a great job. How does that work?

 

Because there’s this ethos right now that like you gotta be big or you’re or or it’s too hard to compete.

 

Chris Earley (01:30)

so I just try to do work every day that maybe many are too lazy to do, perhaps. In other words, sort of called like shoveling shit, if you will, just like every day, just like creating content, pouring into my team, strategizing, scheming, just like the little things each day, Conrad, I think really add up. And like nothing special over here, just the consistency has given us traction, I feel like, and given us a lift.

 

With our brand, so that’s been pretty effective, I feel like.

 

Conrad Saam (02:02)

When you say g so t to to move right to marketing, given a lift with our brand, what do you mean by that? How does that work? What are the little pieces that make that happen? Because I think that’s if you can if you can unlock that for a law firm, you’re starting to win.

 

Chris Earley (02:15)

Being different, first of all. So I encourage the listener, the viewer, just to be different. Like how can you be different? So my name is Earley so I lean into that with the slogan, with our branding. I lean into my authenticity, my story of struggle, my humanity, right? I’m not I’m not a lawyer, I’m rather a person who struggles like all of us and haven’t practiced law, but like trying to just get on our clients level and our branding is very authentic and just kind of

 

like ugly in terms of like this is who we are, right? This is the brand we have. We’re not for everyone. So we try to attract those who want to serve and repel those that maybe aren’t aligned with us. But just authenticity, Conrad, to me, I shifted to because I didn’t really embrace authentic authentic marketing I didn’t really know it was a thing. I was sort of a caveman. When I discovered that everything kind of shifted positively for our brand for sure.

 

Conrad Saam (03:07)

How did you discover that? Like how do you how do you get to that point where like, this resonates? Like what was that story?

 

Chris Earley (03:13)

So I went to a conference about six years ago and a speaker on stage was like, share your story. I’m like, okay. And so I shared my very ugly, you know, many times shameful story on social media. And it really kind of got traction. I was like, this is interesting. But I kept leaning into that because it’s like I can’t compete with John Morgan. I’m not trying to. So I’m competing with Earley How do I compete with Earley So trying to just show up with that story.

 

And not like overdoing it. Like I don’t think everyone wants your Earley story all the time, but I literally wrote a book, write social content, email marketing, LinkedIn, just to a shit ton of content about like who I am. And so a lot of people relate to the struggles that I’ve had and I experience currently. You know, I speak a lot to entrepreneurs, I speak a lot to, you know, clients maybe relate to growing up around dysfunctional situations. So just like I think the key for me, Conrad, again, it’s just like not trying to compete with everyone, doing your best, compete with yourself.

 

Identify who you are and y do everything you can with what you have. Again, my n last name is Earley. We leverage that to the hill, like very aggressively. So use what you got and and just sort of be real, I find, different.

 

Conrad Saam (04:27)

One of the things that I think a smaller firm in a large market needs to do is saturate a small part of a slice of that market. Right? You do you can’t try and be s even even the Christopher Earley story, Scaling the Wall, you can’t have all of Boston hear that. It’s just too it’s too big to try and get there. What have you done tactically to try and get the a small segmented audience to

 

Chris Earley (04:57)

I love that. So I think about what you talk about, the centipede method, right? So let’s get like hyperlocal and deep and like super deep and and not like wide, but like narrow and deep. So I live in the South Shore. Our office is in Boston. I try to really saturate from Boston south to the Cape. You you go to the Cape, right? You’re familiar with where Cape the Cape.

 

Conrad Saam (05:20)

I unfortunately should be going to the Cape on Sunday, but we’re going to Myrtle Beach instead. That’s not too bad. The in laws live on the Cape and I I I missed the twenty t two hundred and fiftieth July fourth parades on the Cape Cod are just Americana at its absolute thousand and I missed it.

 

Chris Earley (05:37)

thousand

 

percent. Well I’m sorry, but so you kind of know where it sits. So that’s like that’s a corridor. So before Conrad I was trying to like just hit Massachusetts, hit Massachusetts, right? It’s not a massive state, but there’s a of people in this smaller state. And that wasn’t working. So now I’m really hyper local and I just start doing local radio. We do sponsorships, we sponsor every freaking thing possible. We get those backlinks, we get those social mentions, right?

 

we get a ton of reviews, just like the local I do a lot of speaking, I do a lot of networking locally, really doing local stuff aggressively and narrow. Right. I think that’s that’s low hanging fruit for a lot of us. Don’t try to go broad, go deep, and narrow as much as you can. And I think that’s been been super successful for us.

 

Conrad Saam (06:26)

How do you do l so when I think about local radio I mean, local radio is Bost it’s the Boston market, right? Or like how how does this kind of c drill down to that that corridor?

 

Chris Earley (06:36)

So let me give you an example. So we I I just sort of like shoot my shot and I I cold call people. I cold call this radio station. It’s a very local station, it’s on the South Shore of Massachusetts. Cold called them, hey, can I just come in and discuss my book, not looking for anything? sure, come on in. They came in, that was an awesome conversation. That led to me going back to the radio station, talking about a pajama drive that my wife and I were doing in our area, right? Giving back to the local community. That leads me to today to advertising in this very hyper-local station.

 

Because these hyper local stations have hyper loyal audiences who listen to the guys and gals that are speaking on these stations, right? They have a lot of credibility in Gravitas. So that’s like another but there’s no like it’s not just all about radio or or volunteering or it’s like the whole, as you know so well, the whole flywheel of of content and action each day. That local flywheel really spins. Like we got a lot of, you know, we do billboards, we do, you know, I get social, just a million.

 

Freakin’ thing just to try to stand out. Authentically.

 

Conrad Saam (07:37)

So, Chris, you were talking about very localized small radio. how does that work? How like is it do they literally have just stations that have a have a small power output and they only hit a small area? How does that work?

 

Chris Earley (07:50)

Yeah, like their reach literally technically isn’t so wide or or long. So it’s you know, somewhat narrow, but plays perfectly because we’re trying I mean, to be brutally honest we’re trying to burn the name into people’s brains. So they hear on the radio, this yeah, as you know, right? You you you know like it’s just repetition. And that’s marketing is the long game. I really think and I’ve talked with Gyi as well about this, like brand is really as you guys know, brand is really important, like maybe more than ever. So I’m like, shit, this is kind of exciting. Like I a name that I can market.

 

Let’s let’s do it and like show up and like we try not to be like like you know tacky, like boring, you know, just being being but sometimes you have to be a little bit ugly, meaning different, unique, stand out, like make different like LinkedIn content, right? Just like stand out. That’s I learned from Bang Labs, differentiation from Dan Kennedy, just really kind of ugly marketing. But you can do that and be yourself. Again, I think that’s really the good stuff. So again, radio is just one little spoke in the wheel.

 

But then it’s like, shit, that’s effective. What’s the next local radio station? And then you’re again, it’s like the the inside of the centipede, like that one segment, isn’t so small. It’s actually kind of big, that local segment, right? And then okay, there’s only so much so many people we could hit there. The next segment of the centipede, right? And then that’s sort of my approach. So when you put it like that with the centipede thing, it really sp visualizes it to me it makes sense. Right.

 

Conrad Saam (09:13)

I thank you. Thank you. And then to me one day I was like, that’s what this looks like. Totally. you are deliberately playing a brand awareness and brand affinity game. which is a long term grade. You just said that. It’s it’s it’s it’s the long game. How do you get your mindset and even the financials to be like, I am going to play the long game and I don’t have to like put my marketing so hyper focused on direct response. I need

 

seven clients this month because I gotta keep the lights on. How do you make that? That’s a really hard transition to make.

 

Chris Earley (09:46)

To branding? Spending on brand? Yeah.

 

Conrad Saam (09:48)

Yeah,

 

it’s a long you’re you’re making a long term play, you have short term cash realities and you gotta get the business in today. How how do you get to that? Where does that transition in your brain come from? Well

 

Chris Earley (10:00)

Just

 

try to really get we got the numbers fairly dialed in, right? But we’re always getting better on the data, right? The minutiae. So if you know your percentages, you know your average case value, your spend on marketing, average time on desk, your average time on desk close fee, like really digging deep into that stuff. You kind of know your numbers. And you’re gonna be, as a PI firm, I can only speak to them, right? And who I am. You go up and down. It’s never like hockey stick. It just isn’t, frankly. It’s a trend up.

 

Hopefully, right? But there’s ups and downs. So if you know your numbers, like you can you can you know you can afford that billboard, you know you can afford that that Facebook ad strategy. And that’s where the leverage is, right? I know you know, you know, better than anyone, the data. That’s that’s the crucial part here. So if you can really understand your data and be intentional about your brand, I think you’re gonna stand out. But it’s so freaking frustrating because it takes forever, Conrad It’s so long, it’s so expensive.

 

But it’s like you have I think you have to have a stomach for up turbulence and ups and downs and being cool with it and not and not not pulling your punches, like staying in there when it gets hard, right? Not backing out of that campaign because you didn’t get immediate cases like stick with it, right? Because usually the stuff works if you keep at it and you know it and you’re intentional about it.

 

Conrad Saam (11:20)

You said no your numbers, you just said be intentional. What are your numbers? What are you following? especially from a marketing perspective. What are you looking at to make sure that you’re doing the right thing? Well

 

Chris Earley (11:28)

Brutal

 

honestly, I think I look at too much to be frank with you. So I think simplicity is the way. So like what are those 80-20 numbers that drive your revenue, that drive your business, right? That drive your, your, your decision-making process. But like table stakes, average case value, average case, you know, cost to acquire your cat, cost to acquire a case, time on desk, all that stuff. You have to know that stuff. And then, you know, how many demands are we sending out?

 

And also more important, like what’s our identity? Are we a trial firm? Are we a volume firm? Are we a hybrid? Are we referral firm? Like who you are, knowing who you are. I gotta be honest with you, I’ve stolen so much stuff from Chad Dudley. I just read a book from him, and like the dude is just I call him a you know, professor. I just steal his stuff and like because you don’t have to reinvent the wheel. You just like, you know, there’s a lot of smart cats out there. I just try to emulate the formula of success for success, because I’m

 

‘Cause I think that’s been pretty effective so far. So yeah, just knowing your numbers and just taking bets.

 

Conrad Saam (12:27)

One of the things that I have found with firms that do good brand awareness long-term awareness and affinity. I like you as a lawyer, is they often get referrals and business requests for s for stuff that’s outside of the practice area. Right. And that’s often been posed to me as a question of like, hey, how do I stop this? Because it’s annoying.

 

And I’ve always looked at it as like, hey, you’re actually winning. If people are coming to you because they like you for that that that thing that you might not do, that’s that’s an indication of a win. Do you get that? Are you getting a lot of stuff that’s outside of your practice area just because people like you?

 

Chris Earley (13:09)

I don’t know how many people actually like me, but but they do call they do call us, right? And so yeah, but it cuts both ways, Conrad. That’s a good thing. You got your brand lift, you’re getting a lot of action, right? A lot of leads. But there’s opportunity to dial in our marketing. Are we not speaking to the audiences that we want to speak to? Because we’re we’re spending a lot of there’s a lot of fat right then and there if we’re spending too much on stuff we actually don’t want, that’s gonna that’s gonna increase the the cost per case and all that stuff based on our spend. So yeah, I think it’s wonderful.

 

So that’s an opportunity for monetization. Like, are you monetizing those those leads? Are you getting a review from those leads? Because you you paid money to acquire that lead. You should drop them in your newsletter, your email newsletter. You should try to get a review. And most importantly, do what’s best to the client. Refer them to a competent firm that’s going to take care of them and act in their best interest. Everybody wins that way. Right. And then hopefully that referring attorney you’re sending it to is going to send you stuff. So and if they don’t, you need to know those guys and gals.

 

Who are slow to respond to leads that you send, who aren’t, you know, customer centric, client centric. Like and I really am sensitive to that is the monetization of outbound referrals, knowing those numbers, and really leaning into again eighty twenty, those lawyers that are crushing it, those in case two, and those that sort of sit on stuff and and we get questions like, you know, I reach out to this lawyer’s not getting back to me, little stuff like that is super helpful to to track.

 

Conrad Saam (14:30)

How much of your time do you put into this? How much of your how much of Chris’s day is lawyering? How much of it is you know, you talk about content and sponsorships and, you know, pajama drives. How much of your time goes into that?

 

Chris Earley (14:45)

A lot. So it’s you know, I’ve still have cases that’s slowly leaning I’m leaning away from that. But a lot of a lot of the time, like I’ll be very brutally honest, I’m watching a really good documentary on Tiger Woods. And he was just you know, I I wish I had any kind of talent like he had. But he was obsessed, and I think I’m kind of obsessed with like trying to be great here, right? And just doing the best I can and like he was sort of like, I don’t know, driven and I don’t know if I have a fraction of his drive, but like that’s where I lean into is like I love this stuff, it’s sort of like play as opposed to work.

 

So yeah, a lot of time, Conrad, right? But you get a little bit better each day. You you cut your teeth a little bit, you know, more each day, you get that experience and you get better and better. But I think you know, go back to Chad Dudley talk about he talks about being a fanatical about the self. I think you need to be fanatical if you’re trying to grow a brand in today’s day and age, it’s getting tough and you have to really outwork people and out one, frankly.

 

Conrad Saam (16:24)

So I think of you as doing a lot of work with you you’re you’re doing the work of the expected marketing channels, right? So email, SEOs, community engagement, like all these things that require commitment and work. Is there something that you’re doing that’s a little out of the box, a little unusual? you know, that that little kind of aha, that’s brilliant, that that would be unexpected.

 

Chris Earley (16:54)

Well, definitely not brilliant. But one thing I kinda lean into is sharing my stuff. So I literally have an email every week on Fridays that goes out to a lot of hundreds of lawyers and I share like what I’m learning. Right. I’m sure when I go to your conference next month, I’m gonna learn stuff. I’m gonna share like, hey, I just got back from Conrad and Gyi’s conference, here’s what’s you kinda happening. Just like shit like that. I lean into like being a giver. And back in the day I would have never done that. Cause I thought that would have been like marketing malpractice to try to help.

 

those you’re, you know, quote unquote competing with, but it’s like now like we can all win. I celebrate suc people’s success. I want people to win. Because I’m just again competing with Earley. At the same time, there’s great value in giving value to others. That’s how you can be radically different. That’s like not a lot of guys are doing that is sending out emails every week like, here’s a way for you to get more person in Boston. Like, because there’s a lot of work, man. We can all do pretty well, you know? It’s a big long game.

 

Conrad Saam (17:50)

What’s your best content? Right. So you’re you we talk about metrics, like you must follow the content that works consistently. What resonates with your audience?

 

Chris Earley (17:58)

Well what’s that quote, you fifty percent of your market, you have no idea what what it’s bringing back, right? Henry Ford or something? So I just

 

Conrad Saam (18:05)

Yeah. I think it’s wanna make I I’m gonna blank on I should know this. Fifty percent of your marketing, the the key well the old quote was I know fifty percent of my marketing is wasted, I just don’t know which fifty percent, right?

 

Chris Earley (18:18)

Right. Pre precisely right. And that’s so damn true, right? There’s like nothing new under the sun, and that’s so freaking true. I I don’t know. I just know that like I’m I were very dialed in on PPC, on LSA, but in terms of the brand and stuff, like just creating a shit ton of content. You know, our mutual friend Chris Dreyer out of the blue just dropped my name on his podcast, you know, talking about my last name, how I use them like shit, that’s so nice. It’s nice when people recognize your efforts, right? That’s always a good thing, right? and just stuff like that.

 

So that’s been that’s been kind of effective yeah.

 

Conrad Saam (18:52)

So last you just kind of surprised me, but I think this is a really important thing. You just mentioned PPC and and and direct response channels. You are running the short game, which is direct response, and the long game, right? So you have, as a smaller firm, you have an omni channel approach to all of this.

 

A lot of firms feel like pay per click and local service ads are increasingly expensive and you can’t play that game. why are you running pay per click if the brand is so strong?

 

Chris Earley (19:24)

Well, it’s currently working, the PPC, but that could change in five minutes. So like again, tracking this stuff, being, you know, fanatical about your data and knowing that stuff. Like LSAs are going great for us, gangbusters right now, right? Right. and so but that’s my market. Like I don’t know what it’s like in St. Louis or Fort Lauderdale, but like if it’s like if it’s working, like that’s just being knowing what’s going on. If it’s working, lean into it. But know when it’s not working. That’s the tension, Conrad, is like you’re invested, you’re invested. When do you pull out? Because when is it just like

 

a loss, right? but like shit’s changing all the time. This could happen this could change. There’s so much flux, but that’s where the brand is so important, right? P PC, you’re renting it’s rented rented media, if you will, or or just renting space. Yeah. Br you know, br earned media, brand awareness. That’s ownership. If the practitioner leans into that more and more, I think he or she is gonna be okay in this new sort of modern era of legal practice and business of the law.

 

Conrad Saam (20:22)

Last question. What is your favorite tool, software, tip, trick? What is what is that thing where you’re like, wow, I wish more if more lawyers used this, they would be more successful.

 

Chris Earley (20:35)

like a tech stack type of text.

 

Conrad Saam (20:37)

Stack, why like what’s that little piece where like I’m so dependent on this and it’s awesome?

 

Chris Earley (20:41)

I love Speed AI to be honest with you.

 

Conrad Saam (20:45)

Yeah, I know Speed AI give him a shout out. Go ahead.

 

Chris Earley (20:47)

Yeah, Speed AI, Haskins, David Haskins, his brother. they’re they have a good product. I’ve had good success with that. I love Lead Docket, right? CallRail, Wonderful. Like there’s a lot of things. I would encourage practitioner not to get the tech stack too heavy because that happens over time. You keep layering and layering and layering. Again, it’s simplicity. Find out once again the eighty twenty. What are those few things that are moving the needle for you? But speed AI, Lead Docket, CallRail that stuff I’m pretty focused on. I like that stuff. Makes everything a lot easier.

 

Conrad Saam (21:15)

So I find a lot of people have a surface level of understanding and a simplistic understanding of CallRail, right? I’m guessing that you’re pretty hands on and you’ve used some of the more deep functionality within Call Rail. What can you can you give listeners just one of those insights into CallRail that you’re like, wow, this is very cool?

 

Chris Earley (21:32)

All right, I’m definitely not very great at CallRail to be completely honest with you, but I lean on it because I know what I know what it does, right? It’s it’s tracking stuff. So I get I’m I know enough to be dangerous. I can go in and say, wait a second, like that number’s not tied to this, what are we doing? Like many lawyers listening to this are losing money because these numbers are not tied to anything, so you’re losing money. Know just know basic basic comprehension of CallRail and tracking this stuff and knowing where the data is.

 

But CallRail’s been super helpful. But I need to know learn a lot more about it for sure, definitely.

 

Conrad Saam (22:04)

Alright, no worries. They will be at the summit And and w I specifically asked them like I want you to go deep into like there’s so many layers to what they can do. It’s very, very cool. That’s crazy. That’s right. It’s one of those tools. It’s like Excel. Like I’m good at about ten percent of it and there’s so much more. Totally. Yeah. Yeah.

 

Chris Earley (22:12)

I bet. I don’t know if five percent of it math.

 

But you’re missing everything, total. Total.

 

Conrad Saam (22:25)

Dude, thank you so much. I really appreciate it. Thank you, bud. I’m genuinely bummed not to be going to Cape Cod. And I was like, it was the 250th anniversary, like missing the July 4th, parade for the 250th, I was really bummed. But my family, my in-laws wanted to do Myrtle Beach instead of Cape Cod. So I did the right thing, but I’m bummed about it.

 

Chris Earley (22:40)

You do the right thing then. Yeah.

 

Hey, happy wife, happy life. So good for you.

 

Conrad Saam (22:47)

One hundred percent, one hundred percent.

 

Chris Earley (22:50)

It’s no joke, man.

 

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