Attorney Robert Brink is the executive director of Boston’s Social Law Library. Established in 1803 during the formative period...
Fred Cohen is the founder and CEO of Zola Media, a legal marketing and technology company that specializes in...
Jared D. Correia, Esq. is the CEO of Red Cave Law Firm Consulting, which offers subscription-based law firm business...
Many lawyers may feel wary or bewildered about how to develop trusted partnerships with legal tech vendors. In this episode of Legal Toolkit, host Jared Correia talks to Robert Brink of Boston’s Social Law Library and Fred Cohen of Zola Suite about how legal organizations and legal tech vendors can work together more effectively. Robert and Fred discuss their working relationship and offer insight into the importance of continued tech adoption and innovation in legal organizations.
Attorney Robert Brink is the executive director of Boston’s Social Law Library.
Fred Cohen is the founder and CEO of Zola Suite, a legal marketing and technology company that specializes in high-impact attorney websites and marketing services.
The Legal Toolkit
How Legal Organizations and Legal Tech Vendors Can Effectively Work Together
Intro: Welcome to Legal Toolkit, bringing you the latest legal trends and business initiatives to help you manage your law firm, with your host, Jared Correia.
You are listening to Legal Talk Network.
Jared Correia: Welcome to another episode of the award-winning Legal Toolkit Podcast here on the Legal Talk Network.
If you are looking for the dad from Elf, I have some horrible news to share. If you are a returning listener, welcome back. If you are a first-time listener, hopefully you will become a longtime listener. And if you are Wilson Phillips, I demand a reunion concert. I cannot hold on for one more day. Wait, that’s actually happening. There is a Wilson Phillips Reunion Concert Series, so I retract my request.
As always, I am your show host Jared Correia, and in addition to casting this pod, I am the CEO of Red Cave Law Firm Consulting, which offers subscription-based law practice management consulting services for law firms, bar associations and legal vendors. Check us out at redcavelegal.com.
I am also the COO of Gideon Software, Inc., which offers chatbots, a first to market Chatbot Builder and predictive analytics created specifically for law firms. Find out more at www.gideon.legal.
You can listen to my other, other podcast, because I don’t have enough to do, that’s called The Lobby List, a family travel show I host with my wife Jessica on iTunes. Subscribe, rate, and comment.
But here on The Legal Toolkit we provide you twice each month now with a new tool to add to your own Legal Toolkit, so that your practices will become more and more like best practices.
In this episode we are going to talk about how legal organizations and legal tech vendors can work together more effectively, or at all.
But before I introduce today’s guests, let’s take a moment to thank our sponsors.
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We have got two guests today, so let’s roll this like Sir Frankie Crisp. My first guest is Robert Brink of Social Law Library in Boston. Robert is an attorney and has been the Executive Director of Social Law Library since 1998. Before that he served as the Executive Director of The Flaschner Judicial Institute, a not-for-profit judges organization dedicated to the professional development and continuing education on the Massachusetts judiciary. The Institute became affiliated with the Library in 1998 and Robert has continued on as its Executive Vice President.
He is also a trustee and the Executive Director of the Supreme Judicial Court Historical Society and the Supreme Judicial Court is the Supreme Court in Massachusetts.
And not only that, Robert wears the hell out of a bowtie. Welcome to the big show Robert.
Robert Brink: Thank you Jared. Like most lawyers, the sweetest voice to my ears is my own, so thanks for the opportunity to speak about Social Law’s partnership with Fred Cohen and Zola Suite.
Jared Correia: Oh, perfect segue. Our other guest is Fred Cohen, who is the Founder and CEO at Zola Media. In addition to his duties as CEO, Fred is the Chief Product Architect of Zola Suite Case Management, where he is focused on developing state-of-the-art technology to enable law firms to massively scale their operations.
He has been a leader, product visionary and innovator in the legal technology space for over a decade. Fred has led Zola from its founding to becoming one of the fastest growing businesses in the U.S. two years in a row, as recognized by Inc. Magazine.
He is a former practicing attorney himself as he was a partner at a New York trusts and estates law firm.
And might I say that, Fred wears a leather jacket like a boss. Welcome to the big show Fred.
Fred Cohen: Excited to be here. Thank you Jared.
Jared Correia: This is great. I love it when we have two guests. So let’s get rolling.
Robert, I am going to start with you. So I am going to say this, and I think I am safe in saying it even though I know a lot of law librarians, I think you are the coolest one I know. I feel like you are like the Indiana Jones of law librarians.
So can you explain to me the Dewey Decimal System?
Robert Brink: No.
Jared Correia: No, I am not serious. Good, good, because I wasn’t serious. I just don’t understand it.
Serious question, you have — I think the Social Law Library is the oldest law library in the United States, is that right?
Robert Brink: Well, we vie with the Jenkins Library. They started as the Law Society of Philadelphia and started about six months before we were. We were established in 1803 and have been running strong ever since.
Jared Correia: My vote goes to you. So in your collection, which is massive and historical, what’s your favorite book?
Robert Brink: Gee, we have over — I am going to answer this question actually, we have over 500,000 volumes, going from as far back as Justinian’s Institutes of 1569. But I do want to tell you, because I think it’s relevant to today, that my current favorite book is by MIT Professor Max Tegmark called ‘Life 3.0: Being Human in the Age of Artificial Intelligence’, which for a guy who thinks bowties are still fashionable and has to ask his daughter how to use an iPhone, this book provides a very clear explanation of what AI is and its future impact on society, including several chapters on the law.
AI and other technologies are transforming legal practice and I know that your Gideon Legal has its own AI chatbox features.
Jared Correia: Yes, yes.
Robert Brink: I just want to make one other kind of observation about this is that, I have read that in 2018 there was a billion dollars invested in high legal tech startups, with over 3.5 million devoted to new technologies. Most of the emerging legal technologies are focused on so-called big law market, which creates issues for the 85-90% of other lawyers who are in solo and small firm practice. This is where libraries come in, including our partnership with Fred Cohen and Zola Suite’s Law Practice Management.
So it’s good to have books and it’s good to read them.
Jared Correia: Yes, I totally agree. So that is a good segue into the next question I have for you. So like generally speaking, and I will ask you a little bit more about your partnership with Fred in the second half of the show, how does a modern law library get tech forward, because I don’t think people generally and lawyers necessarily associate libraries with technology?
Robert Brink: Right. Well, you keep your fingers on the pulse. You read books like this, and if you are a membership organization, you provide services that the members need.
So you mentioned our age, in 1803, when we were established, there were no law books in the United States to speak of, we just had a revolution and there was — we needed a new legal system.
Jared Correia: There were other things going on.
Robert Brink: Yeah, lawyers got together, lawyers got together, they formed a library and they began to import English law books. The library was not an end in itself, but they needed law books and they found a way to do it.
So we have always here at Social Law Library tried to keep our finger on the pulse, and in terms of technology, 1993, after Westlaw and Lexis and all these publishers came out and a lot of solos couldn’t afford databases, Social Law started to become a legal publisher of databases. We now publish 35 databases of primary Massachusetts law and administrative decisions.
When the Internet came out, we began to for our members develop websites and we are an ISP, an Internet Service Provider, because people — this is sort of before Gmail and all of that. So we were the first library to provide remote access to e-books about four years ago.
And so what you do, like any good business, is you keep your finger on the pulse and you provide services that your members need.
Jared Correia: So what you are saying is you have been innovating for a long time, and I kind of knew that, but for the benefit of our listeners.
Let me turn to Fred now. So Fred, you are a legal tech entrepreneur. You have got at least a couple of businesses that you run. How do you balance the provision of new legal tech and new legal technology features for lawyers against like the fact that attorneys are like the latest of late adopters, right, how do you reconcile?
Fred Cohen: I am not so sure about that, but I think —
Jared Correia: Oh, you are going to dispute the notion, all right, hit me.
Fred Cohen: Well, you know what, again, we have a limited sample size and maybe there is some self-selection going on in terms of who is selecting our software, who is deciding frankly to even use practice management software in the first place, and certainly if they are adopting Zola Suite, by default they must be very tech savvy. So maybe we have a very biased sample.
But really in terms of the big picture for us, the big thing that we are always focusing on is user experience and that term is kind of thrown around, it’s just kind of like a buzzword without kind of truly appreciating what it is. And we view everything that the law firm does from the first second that they sign up for the software to the email notifications they get, the interactions they have with us or with the team. Elements of the user interface, what are they communicating to the user, the use of color, shading, tooltips. We really assume nothing.
And really our goal is any layperson staring at the screen should be able to tell what information is being presented and what options they have at their disposal to delve in and view more and do more.
So that goes to the heart of what we do. We spend a ton of time figuring that out. And frankly, the more sophisticated users, even though they can usually kind of poke around and figure things out, they appreciate what we do with user experience.
Jared Correia: That’s really cool. I think that’s a great approach to software.
Fred Cohen: Yeah, I think — and by the way, to me, user experience is everywhere. User experience is in cars. I sit inside a car and I am trying to adjust the temperature on the thermostat and I am like who designed this thing, because it’s — if I have to stare down I cannot view the road with my peripheral vision and meanwhile, there are a lot of useless buttons and vents much higher up that could be within the field of my peripheral vision of the road.
So I mean I obsess about user experience when I open up a door at a building and what is the shape of the handle and does that shape implies a pull versus a push. So it’s something I am personally very obsessed about and I have kind of infected a lot of my team with that same disease. So we are very much obsessed with every signal that we send to the user on the screen.
Jared Correia: No, that makes a lot of sense, so you make it as easy for lawyers to use your software as possible, that’s really smart. We got pretty deep there. I wasn’t expecting that.
So let me ask you now in follow-up a more specific question, like you have had a software product for a while now, what’s the best use of technology you have seen a law firm make using your software?
Fred Cohen: It’s really exciting, being cloud-based means that essentially we get to constantly release enhancements without users having to install anything, without complicated essentially steps that installed software limits the users with. So it’s really fantastic to see when we release new features and sometimes we will get on a training call with a client and we will see, oh my God, like how far they have taken it.
So last year, TECHSHOW of 2018, we released CRM, and it’s so exciting, we are seeing firms pushing all the leads from their website directly to the CRM. They are curating it. They are using it to clear conflicts. They are using the electronic intake system. They are using the built-in E-Signature to attach an engagement letter.
So, so much of that pre-retention phase of the client lifecycle has now been really optimized and it’s been so great to see law firms adopt that. And when I — sometimes I like to see the number of our clients from time to time and I hear their feedback and of course they always have more that they want to do with it, which is part of the reason why I get on those calls. But it’s really gratifying to see tools that we have developed is helping law firms do more, be more efficient, and people are scalable and essentially, it’s a manifestation of our vision, which is very much based on the E-Myth principles; I am not sure if you are familiar with it, the Entrepreneurial Myth.
Jared Correia: Oh, somewhat, yes, I am, but you can relay that.
Fred Cohen: Yeah, I am a big E-Myth aficionado. Frankly, the vision behind Zola Suite was inspired by E-Myth and E-Myth was in many ways inspired by what McDonald’s did early on from creating a device to dispense five dots of ketchup perfectly centered on the burger. So you leave out that variation and discretion from the employees and you create a more consistent user experience; there is that phrase again, for the consumer more generally.
The other phrase I use is a yellow brick road with electrified fences on both sides, so that at a law firm things are as systematic as they can be, and again, that’s the only way a small law firm has a chance to compete against the big boys who do have access to a lot of technology and a lot of IT and a lot of systems and culturally they have more ingrained kind of process than smaller firms. So we think great software can help build that culture at a small organization. So that’s another way that we view our role.
Jared Correia: I think that’s the director’s cut of The Wizard of Oz, with the electric fences, I think. And I might also say that the McDonald’s thing is really interesting. If folks have not seen this movie called The Founder with Michael Keaton, where they get into like the processes McDonald’s use and the assets and it’s really fascinating stuff.
This has been great Fred. I am spent however, so let’s take a break. Here are some of the things you should buy.
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Jared Correia: Thanks for staying. I have got some hot chocolate cooling for you and I am here talking with Robert Brink of Social Law Library and Fred Cohen of Zola Media. We are here podcasting about how legal organizations and legal technology providers can work better together.
All right, let’s get back into it. Now, Robert, can you talk a little bit about the arrangement you have developed, you and Social Law Library with Zola.
Robert Brink: Sure, sure, absolutely. First of all, I want to echo Fred’s comment about the beauty of his software, his Law Practice Management software. It’s very intuitive. People can use it, they can figure it out. They are not dumbfounded just by looking at it. So I think it’s just a great product.
Jared Correia: Yeah, Fred has an excellent product, I would agree.
Robert Brink: In terms of the partnership that we have, basically we offer Zola Suite’s Law Practice Management software as a member benefit for solo and small firm members. Up to three paying Social Law member lawyers can participate in the program, plus one office administrator and one accountant, and all of that is included in the price of annual dues to the Social Law Library, no add-ons.
So in a sense that’s the basic, a free member benefit up to three lawyers, plus one office administrator and an accountant, and Zola Suite has a built-in accounting software, so it doesn’t have to get another third party accounting software.
Jared Correia: Oh, that’s cool. And that’s a fairly unique partnership as far as I know, like I don’t know of many other organizations, especially law libraries that are engaging in partnerships like that with technology vendors.
Robert Brink: Right. Well, this with law practice management is the first and I know we are going to talk about some of the reasons why later. But it is perfectly in line with the Social Law Library’s mission; one, to serve our members; but two, as a library, because law practice management is becoming integral to law practice and major legal publishers. Westlaw has something called Firm Central, which is their law practice management built into Westlaw. So it makes perfect sense for a law library to pursue this kind of partnership for our members.
Jared Correia: Yeah. Now Fred, do you have anything to add on the partnership?
Fred Cohen: I would just say — I mean Robert said it all in terms of what the partnership entails and the benefits that it offers, but really Robert and his team have been visionaries in terms of bringing tech, making it accessible to solos and small firms and frankly firms of all sizes. But it is very much in line with what they are doing at the Law Library, but also with what they have done in the past vis-à-vis legal research. I think they helped put one of the big legal research companies on the map. I know Robert is a little too modest to bring that up.
Robert Brink: Oh no, I am not.
Jared Correia: We can talk about that.
Robert Brink: Just wait.
Fred Cohen: But yeah, no, it’s really great to work with Robert and his team. They really do get technology, they really do appreciate what it can do to help law firms become more profitable, more organized, more scalable.
Jared Correia: Yes, yeah, absolutely. And so Robert, you can tell that story if you want, but also like, when you are trying to make the decision about who you are going to enter into relationships with, as far as like technology providers are concerned, how do you determine that that’s a benefit for your organization?
Robert Brink: Well, we hear from members, we talk to members. We know what they need. We read the literature. We know the new technologies that are recommended for practitioners. But I think the key here is to find the right product and equally important, maybe more important, are the right people to partner with, people willing to think out of the box and try new things that haven’t been done before.
I am not too modest to talk about our partnership with Fastcase quite frankly. Social Law Library was the first major customer of Fastcase when Phil Rosenthal and Ed Walters first brought it to market. No other legal publishers were willing to license their legal research databases to libraries for remote desktop access. It all had to be in use only.
In the late 80s or 90s, we started to provide and produce, publish our own databases of Massachusetts’ primary law and administrative law, so that we could make legal research affordable to our solo small firm members and our government members. But we couldn’t offer remote access to federal law or from other states.
So Phil and Ed took a chance on social law and I took a chance with Fastcase, which had developed a massive comprehensive database of all 50 states and federal laws, it’s just a remarkable thing.
I think that Social Law Library’s national prominence as a membership organization with at the time 12,000 members provided Fastcase market acceptance, I don’t think there is any question.
Jared Correia: No, absolutely.
Robert Brink: Today Fastcase has 35 bar associations that offer it as a member benefit, and they just got California, they got all the big ones and before long they will probably have all 50.
So, Social Law Library was a model that broke the mold, and I personally think that Fred and Zola Suite in the same way, I think of them exactly the same way. There are a number of vendors offering law practice management software, but they sell it retail to lawyers and firms. Some may have promotional or introductory discounts, 10% off for members of such and such and so-and-so bar association, but none of them willing to fashion a workable deal whereby the member organization can offer it as a member benefit built into the dues.
I think this is hopefully — I am hoping that this is a new paradigm, especially for the states with mandatory bar associations that are essentially arms of the state Supreme Courts. Think about it, as I mentioned before, Supreme Courts in 35 states have new Rules of Professional Conduct imposing on lawyers a duty to become competent in legal technology and law practice management software is now the baseline that all lawyers should use.
The mandatory state bars in those states, and I think there are 32 or 33 states with mandatory state bars that are arms of the court, hopefully will find a way to provide law practice management software to their members, perhaps as part of a bar registration fees in the same way that they now provide Fastcase and legal research databases which was new and novel 15 years ago.
So Massachusetts is not a mandatory bar state, but the Supreme Judicial Court set up a program called LOMAP; I know you are familiar with that, Law Office Management Assistance Program to help lawyers adopt sound management practices, and it also now requires all new lawyers to take a mandatory program called Practicing with Professionalism.
LOMAP, which helps teach this program, writes and I quote, “Law practice management is essential to operating any type of practice”, and they are referring to systems like this.
Jared Correia: Yeah, yes.
Robert Brink: So just as they have done with legal research databases, I think unified bars have to find a way to make law practice management software available and affordable to members of the bar, solos and small firms especially. And I hope that our partnership with Fred and Zola Suite can demonstrate how that can be done. And I do look at the model with Fastcase as proof that people like Fred and Phil Rosenthal and Ed Walters who were willing to break the mold and deal with membership organizations like us, I think they are going to lead the way.
Jared Correia: That’s a great discussion. I hope Ed sends you like a nice bottle of wine every year at least.
Robert Brink: We are very good friends, all of us.
Jared Correia: Excellent. All right, Fred, let’s turn to you and let’s flip this conversation a little bit. So when you are making these types of decisions, how do you consider which legal organizations you want to work with, because that’s kind of a different thing than like finding clients for your website business or finding clients directly for case management software?
Fred Cohen: Yeah. And frankly, we do have a lot of interest from a wide range of legal organizations, from organizations like LOMAP, to Social Law, to state bars, county level bars, city level bars, for-profit kind of legal organizations. So one of the things that we look for is, number one, alignment of values.
I was I believe the only person in my graduating law school class that put up his own shingle and went into practice for himself, so I kind of have a soft spot for anything that will help somebody that is relatively new, out of law school or just relatively new on their own. And every penny counts and whatever way that we can help them succeed is something that I believe very strongly in, and definitely with respect to Social Law, there was that alignment of values.
And then the other thing is an enthusiastic interlocutor at the organization, sometimes the persons that are in charge of member benefit programs aren’t necessarily bought in to the underlying partnership and they just — it’s kind of a job for them, but in the case with Robert and Social Law and their team, everybody was enthusiastic, they were bought in, and it was just — you feel the energy and it truly felt like a partnership, and you really need that to see it through, because there are a lot of steps to kind of go through; there’s legal, there’s implementation, and if you are missing that element of it, there is a strong chance that it’s not going to succeed.
Jared Correia: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So this is a great discussion that we are engaging in right now, and I am very happy to have Robert Brink of Social Law Library and Fred Cohen of Zola Media on the show today.
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Jared Correia: Thanks again for coming back. I hope you enjoyed your Salted Caramel Fondue, I know I did. Now let’s get back to our conversation with Robert Brink of Social Law Library and Fred Cohen of Zola Media. We are talking about how legal organizations and legal technology vendors can work better together and this is part three of the show.
So Fred, let’s continue on with you. What would you identify as best practices for legal technology vendors who are looking to work with legal organizations?
Fred Cohen: Yeah. Again, I go back to that interlocutor that you are going to be working with. For us, we have been lucky because we had a lot of LPMs that had seen our product and they had —
Jared Correia: So law practice management consultants you are talking about.
Fred Cohen: Yes, thank you.
Jared Correia: Just to clarify. No, no problem.
Fred Cohen: And yeah, and they were excited about what we were doing and they initiated the conversation and it was very easy to implement. And again, it’s kind of like the core element that you need in order to make sure that it’s viable in the long-term.
But the other thing I would say is sometimes the contact isn’t necessarily the formal individual that is managing member benefits, he or she might frankly have slightly different interests, and there are a wide range of member benefits that can be provided to a legal organization and they just might have their own kind of separate passions, but you just have to find your own champion within that organization and that person may or may not be the formal individual that handles those kinds of relationships.
Jared Correia: Yeah, that’s fair, that’s a good point. And so Robert, let’s turn back to you for a moment here, you have talked a little bit about this previously, but I think this will probably give you a chance to like clarify this point. So in terms of like best practices for you, when you seek out legal technology vendors to partner with, what do you try to do?
Robert Brink: Well, I am sort of being repetitive here. I try to figure out just Marketing 101, what our members need, what are their pain points and how we can help them. And if the answer is technology, we pursue the technology and we do it in a way that I mentioned before. We try to find people that we can work with that, as Fred said, we share the same values.
We are all about solo and small firm practitioners. We do have the largest law firms in the country as members, we have state government, but we want everyone to be on equal footing and we want solo practitioners, so we share the values.
So I look at the segments of our membership and what are their particular needs, so large firms don’t need from us law practice management systems, they have it all, but they need other things.
We developed, for instance, two years ago, three years ago, something called point-to-point managed services. We outsource library services to law firms now, because outsourcing is huge. You might as well outsource library services from us because you are already members and you will get to know all of the services that Social Law Library involves rather than hiring some other outsourcing service that’s not connected to a library.
So I look at the various segments of our membership. We do focus groups, user surveys and try to determine what their pain points are, not what I think is best for them, but what they can really use and what they really want and it’s basically Marketing 101.
So we have initiatives for pretty much every segment of our membership, and again, I think it’s — I don’t know a lot about technology. I mean I wasn’t kidding when I said that I ask my daughter about certain aspects of my iPhone. I am not great with technology, but learn to listen, listen to learn. I listen to people. I read. We have good close relationships with our members, and when it becomes clear that they need something, we are going to do our best to provide those services as member benefits.
Jared Correia: Don’t feel bad, I have a flip phone, which I think you know.
So let’s stay with you for a second Robert. So just to underscore a prior point for you, like how important is it for traditional legal organizations like law libraries, bar associations to continue to seek out new and different member benefits rather than resting on their laurels?
Robert Brink: Well, it’s survival. We won’t survive as an institution if we don’t stay current with progress and technology and digitization. I mean we were the first library in the country to offer remote access to eBooks, and we have a lot of people now in state government and elsewhere that use the eBooks. And basically that expands the geographic reach of our usage.
So if you have to borrow a book and you live in Worcester, 60 miles away, well, it’s going to be kind of hard, but if you can get online and get the eBook, boom, there you are. So what we really have to do is I don’t have to invent anything. We have to see the changes in the world and the adaptive technology to meet the demands of the world and then to see whether there are partners that will help us provide those benefits to our members at a price that we can afford and in a fashion that we can offer it as seamlessly as possible.
Jared Correia: Cool. All right, so Fred, I learned something interesting about you today when I was reading your bio on your website probably for the first time. You are into anthropology. So can I ask you historically like what is your favorite culture, Egyptians, Greeks, other? I know that’s a tough question to decide.
Fred Cohen: You know what, I am going to go a little bit further back into prehistory.
Jared Correia: Oh nice, yes, let’s do it.
Fred Cohen: Talk about Neanderthals.
Jared Correia: Yeah, hit me, this is really interesting.
Fred Cohen: AKA caveman, who have a little bit of a bad rep due to a certain insurance company, but in fact, they were really intelligent, they had very large sized brains and more importantly, the ratio of their brain mass to their body mass was roughly equivalent to that of Homo sapiens, AKA us. So they were remarkably intelligent, and we can tell, for example, they were emotional, they buried their dead with ceremony and mementos and I feel like in some sense they don’t get their due.
Jared Correia: That’s cool. I bet they would have appreciated like a good UI on a software product.
Fred Cohen: Oh yeah.
Jared Correia: All right, we have covered a lot of ground today, a lot more than usual. We have covered a lot of ground today, might I say.
Unfortunately, however, we have reached the end of yet another episode of The Legal Toolkit Podcast. This was a podcast about legal technology vendors and legal organizations working together, and we featured Robert Brink of Social Law Library and Fred Cohen of Zola Media, who have a very unique partnership.
Now, I will be back on future shows with further insights into my soul, the soul of America and the legal market. If you are feeling nostalgic however for my dulcet tones, you can check out our entire show archive anytime you want at legaltalknetwork.com.
So thanks again to Robert Brink of Social Law Library and Fred Cohen of Zola Media for making appearances as my guest today.
All right, Robert, can you tell everybody how they can find out more about you and about Social Law Library.
Robert Brink: Google Social Law Library and pretty much everything is on the website.
Jared Correia: That’s easy. Thanks Robert.
Robert Brink: Yeah.
Jared Correia: Now, Fred, your turn, can you tell everybody how they can find out more information about you and about Zola.
Fred Cohen: Google.com.
Jared Correia: You guys are making this too easy for me.
Fred Cohen: They can visit our site, zolasuite.com or Zola Creative and also on LinkedIn. So we would love to hear from you, reach out.
Jared Correia: Yeah, both these guys do excellent work and it has been my distinct pleasure to have them on the show today.
Again, that was Fred Cohen of Zola Media and Robert Brink of Social Law Library. Thanks to all of you out there for listening. This has been the Legal Toolkit Podcast, where we ain’t got time for that.
Outro: Thanks for listening to Legal Toolkit, produced by the broadcast professionals at Legal Talk Network. Join host Jared Correia for his next podcast covering the current business trends for law firms.
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