Reputation Marketing: Manage Your Firm’s Online Reviews

Episode Notes

Transcript

Advertiser: Managing your law practice can be challenging. Marketing, time management, attracting clients and all the things besides the cases that you need to do that aren’t billable. Welcome to this edition of the Un-Billable Hour, the law practice advisory podcast. This is where you’ll get the information you’ll need from expert guests, and host Christopher Anderson. Here, on Legal Talk Network.

 

Christopher Anderson: Welcome to the Un-Billable Hour, the law practice advisory podcast, helping attorneys achieve more success. We’re glad you can listen today on the Legal Talk Network. I’m your host, Christopher Anderson. I am an attorney with a singular passion for helping other lawyers be more successful with their law firm businesses. I work directly with lawyers across the country to help them achieve success as they define it. In the Un-Billable Hour, each month we explore an area important to growing revenues, giving you back more of your time and or improving your professional satisfaction in one of the key areas of your business. I am an attorney who has built and managed law firms in Georgia and New York City; I’ve created innovative software for lawyers at LexisNexis, and now I work with hundreds of lawyers to help them grow professionally and personally. Your law firm business should exist to provide for the financial, personal, and professional needs of you, its owner. In this program, I have a chance to speak to you as I do in presentations across the country about what it takes to build and operate your law firm like the business that it is. I have the chance to introduce you to a new guest each month to talk about how to make that business work for you instead of the other way around. Today’s episode of the Un-Billable Hour is Reputation Marketing. Now this is a groundbreaking topic. Most of us have become aware of social media, and many of us are also familiar with some review sites like Yelp and Avvo and have seen reviews that show up everywhere else like on Amazon and Bestbuy and TripAdvisor and other sites. But we all don’t appreciate the dangers that are lurking in today’s review economy. We not as keenly aware as we might be about how quickly our reputation can change to hurt us or help us. The vast majority of us aren’t tuned in at all as to how to seize the opportunity that all of this reputation data presents and to use it to our distinct advantage. My guest today is Michael Veinbergs, and he will help to open our eyes. Since 2009, Michael has been running Mach4Marketing, which is a full service online marketing agency. Michael has also been keenly interested, done research and has developed some software and systems around the ideas of reputation marketing. So without further ado, Michael Veinbergs, welcome to the Un-Billable Hour.

 

Michael Veinbergs: Thank you, Chris,

 

Christopher Anderson: You’re welcome. So, Michael, first of all, my introduction of you was really brief. I noted that you do run a company called Mach4Marketing. Could you just briefly describe what your business does for law firm owners?

 

Michael Veinbergs: Sure. Mach4Marketing is, as you mentioned, a full service agency. So it’s everything from web design to SEO, PPC, consulting and so forth. About the last year and a half, we’ve seen some major changes in the industry and that comes back to reputation marketing and it really has become the driver that we’ve seen in terms of ROI for any marketing that a law firm is doing. That’s why it’s become a full service focus for us.

 

Christopher Anderson: How did your full service marketing lead you to become interesting in reputation marketing?

 

Michael Veinbergs: That’s a great question. I think that what we’ve found is when we first started doing online marketing and what most firms are still doing, is we would take the client and we would help them to get better rankings. So naturally, that’s going to bring more visitors to their website, it’s going to increase the exposure.

 

Christopher Anderson: Everybody that wants to be online, they’re always like, “I want to be number one on Google,” that’s everything.

 

Michael Veinbergs: And that’s still what a lot of firms focus on. So the problem with that is that oftentimes if a firm has reputation problems already and we’re getting them great ranking, essentially, we’re marketing their poor reviews and that actually drives clients away from their business. So what we do now is that we focus first on the reputation. Once we build that reputation and help them to establish themselves as a five star practice online, then we can market not just their practice, but their reputation online to bring more business their way.

 

Christopher Anderson: It sounds like you’re saying that you see reputation marketing really as an important part of a marketing portfolio, not something that we should think about as something distinct and separate.

 

Michael Veinbergs: Correct. I would actually say it’s a precursor to other types of marketing. In this day and age, any marketing you do – whether it’s online or offline – people are going to see your reputation. So if you run a search for your city and your particular specialty, you’re going to see at least three different providers that are going to show up in Google or whatever search other engine you might be using. And it makes it very easy for people to just glance at those listings and see your star rating. And when they see your star rating as it compares to your competitors, it makes it really easy for people to compare and to shop in a matter of a few moments.

 

Christopher Anderson: So can you give an example for us? Because you said it’s a precursor, so if you do it in the wrong order, you could sometimes be marketing your bad reputation. Can you give an example of how that might play out?

 

Michael Veinbergs: Absolutely. So recently, I actually had back surgery. Not a lot of fun, that was actually a couple of weeks ago. When I was looking for a surgeon, I was looking for somebody who would be the best in their space here in my local area. So I did some research and I was looking for, again, the people that had the best reviews. I found that individual and I just do business with them. There were other people that I’m sure had a great practice, but if they’re not showing up online as somebody who their patients are happy with, then it’s certainly not somebody who I want to operate on my spine. It’s the same thing in the legal practice. If you choose the wrong provider, they can leave you crippled financially. So by making sure that you are putting your best foot forward online, when people are doing their research about you and about other competitors in your space, they’re looking for the best. It used to be that they’re looking for the first couple of ones that are showing up online. People kind of figured that Google’s algorithm is helping to weed out the people who aren’t so good so the people at the top must be great, which really isn’t the case anymore. The provider that I found to operate on my back didn’t show up on the first page of Google at all, but I chose them. And the reason is that I, and other consumers out there, are looking for the best. They’re not necessarily looking for the first one that shows up online.

 

Christopher Anderson: So this comes from a marketplace where in the early days, like the flashiest looking, coolest looking, slickest looking website was what it was all about. And then we’ve moved to a place where really SEO and getting ranked high is what it’s all about. You were the first seen, because the first seen would likely be the one to be used. And now we’re going to place where you’re saying it’s the reviews that are more important. Even being on the first page is not as important as having – I think you described it as five stars. Is that correct?

 

Michael Veinbergs: That’s correct, and it’s not actually one or the other, it’s about making sure you put them in the right order. So if you have a great reputation, you have a five star reputation online and everybody else in your area has five or six reviews and you’ve got 20 or 30 reviews, then you are the name brand in your area. And once that’s established, then it’s time for you to get your site to the top of Google whether it’s with SEO or pay per click or social media, your choice of marketing methods. But then, when people are running the search, they’re confirming what they already know by looking at your beautiful website. They can see now that you’ve got these great reviews across a multitude of websites and people have great things to say about you. And it does two things: Number one is it increases your conversions, which means you get more people to go from prospect to client, and secondly, it actually increases your local rankings. Part of the ranking algorithm is now taking into account the reviews that you have. If you have an average of a two star rating and you’re doing great SEO, and your competitor’s also doing great SEO and they have an average five star rating, they’re going to rank higher than you are. So it’s important to do both.

 

Christopher Anderson: Are you saying, Michael, that Google’s actually using the various star ratings, various review levels on all of these review sites out there as part of how it ranks people’s websites?

 

Michael Veinbergs: That’s absolutely right. And it’s not across every single ratings site. One of the primary ones for them, obviously, is their own. So it’s really important that on Google you have great reviews. They do take into account a number of other sites, but of course, their own carries the most weight. And yes, Google’s goal is to give the best user experience to the people who are using their search engine. And one of the ways they do that is to do the best they can to make sure they’re presenting quality providers to somebody that is searching on Google for a quality provider. So yes, it has become part of the ranking algorithm.

 

Christopher Anderson: Interesting. So before we get down to what ranking algorithm is, I want to make sure that the listeners understand the difference between reputation management, which I’ll let you describe. But my understanding is it’s about managing your reputation, and reputation marketing is about using that. So how do you distinguish the two? Do you do both? And are both equally important and how are they different?

 

Michael Veinbergs: Good question, we do both. Reputation management is a part, it’s a component of reputation marketing. The place that some of these other companies fall short in terms of managing a reputation versus marketing it, you don’t make money managing, you make money marketing. When you have a company that is helping you to manage the reputation, what they are doing is they are monitoring all of the review sites. They may be making you aware of any reviews that are coming in, whether positive or negative, and they might be encouraging you to do some follow up with those reviews. They may even make it to be a little easier for you to collect some of those reviews, and that’s all great. But if you have 20 five star reviews and nobody knows about it, then it’s not going to be helping you to acquire new clients. It’s not going to be part of that ranking algorithm unless it’s on the right sites. And so when it comes to marketing your great reputation, it’s about making sure that you’re building up your presence on the right sites that are being included in the consideration for the Google ranking algorithm. And even more than that, it’s about taking your best reviews and repurposing those reviews.

 

Christopher Anderson: So this is where management starts to become marketing?

 

Michael Veinbergs: Correct. So then when we market those reviews, what we’re doing is we’re syndicating those reviews across social media. So let’s say that maybe we’ve connected with your Facebook, your Twitter, your YouTube, your LinkedIn and half a dozen other sites, and we’re going to take those great reviews, we’re going to place those same great reviews across these other review sites in a text format. Or maybe if it’s like a Pinterest, we’re going to turn that into an image and we’re going to market that via Pinterest as an image of that great review. Maybe we’ll take your very best reviews each month and we’ll turn that into a video and then we’re going to syndicate that via social media as well as video sharing sites. And so by taking those reviews and expanding their reach, you are increasing the likelihood that people are going to see those great reviews no matter what site they happen to be on and subsequently follow those reviews back to your site. And it’s also important even within social media; when people are talking about you, your prospects are going to listen more closely than if you are going to talk about you. And that’s why reviews are so powerful. It’s the same idea as when you go to take a look at a movie and you take a look at the reviews about a movie. If you were looking just at the interviews of the actors, then naturally you’re going to expect everyone to say that it’s great; but when you’re reading the reviews from someone who’s a neutral third party, then it carries a lot more weight. In fact, 88% of buyers trust reviews as much as personal recommendations. So again, the reviews are really important, but if people don’t see them, it’s really not going to help you. So the marketing side is all about increasing the reach of those reviews to draw people back to your site and increase your conversions. And again, bringing this back to that doctor I found; before I ever landed on his website, before I ever picked up the phone to call his office, the great reviews already sold me. So when I picked up the phone and called him, I was already a client before I said hello.

 

Christopher Anderson: That’s fantastic, and I want to seize on that number, 88%. And typically these are reviews from people that the prospect, just like you on the doctor’s website, you had no idea who these people are or whether they would have any personal credibility with you. But 88% of people take these reviews from strangers with the same weight they would a personal recommendation?

 

Michael Veinbergs: That’s right. That was actually a study in 2015 from BrightLocal.

 

Christopher Anderson: That’s amazing. That’ truly amazing. So because you do and have done full service marketing, I just want to touch on last month; we had a show all about building your brand. And I want to just talk a little bit about how reputation marketing can affect a law firm owner’s brand.

 

Michael Veinbergs: Absolutely. So really, it is your brand. Reputation marketing, your reputation online is your brand. You can create the most beautiful website, you can have a great presence online with social media. But when it comes right down to it, if you do all of those things wonderfully and you have a one star reputation, your brand is that one star reputation.

 

Christopher Anderson: It seems to me from everything that you’ve described, that reputation marketing would be a powerful tool for any small business; large business probably too. But you’ve chosen to start working with and focusing this effort on law firm business owners. Why?

 

Michael Veinbergs: We’ve worked in a lot of markets. For this particular service, we were looking for two criteria. We wanted to work in an industry where reviews had a significant impact on provider selection and an industry where the outcome for the consumer was substantial if they chose the wrong provider. And that really brought us to medial and legal. By utilizing these criteria to find some place where we could have the most impact, we could provide the greatest benefit for the consumer as well as for the provider. And the other great thing about reputation marketing is if you’re a smaller firm – and we don’t just do this for small firms, but this is something that I love about this service specifically for small firms – is that if you’re a smaller firm, you’re not going to have the same kind of marketing budget as a lot of the larger competitors, which means that there are many areas of marketing we could help you with  that will be more difficult to win at when you’re competing against a larger provider. But reputation marketing is the great equalizer. You could have a very small budget or no budget and if you do effective reputation marketing, you can be the name brand. You can be the five star provider, and that gives you a significant competitive advantage over really any other provider. The other great thing is that larger providers are a little bit slower to get to the starting line. So when we’re able to help a smaller provider in a given area, we can help them to get really tremendous results and a significant competitive advantage even if they have more modest budgets, which is another thing that we really like about this particular industry.

 

Christopher Anderson: So, Michael, you’ve talked about for instance how they can leverage good reviews and need to manage their better reviews before spending a whole lot on marketing. In the earlier part of this talk, you mentioned one of the problems that a lot of small firm businesses might have would be having no reviews. How do you help these small businesses that are just getting started or just don’t have much in the social space yet? How do you help them generate some good reviews to get their reputation going?

 

Michael Veinbergs: When we first start with a client, it takes us about a week to two weeks to get them completely set up. The platform that we build for them includes a private feedback page. And what’s great about this particular tool is that it allows them a place that they can send all of their previous clients and their current clients and safely request a review. I say safely because if you request somebody to leave a review for you and you send them directly to one of your public review sites, you may or may not get the kind of review that you’re hoping to get from that individual. Oftentimes, also there can be some barriers from entry. So for example, if they made a request for somebody to go to their Yelp or their Google Plus to leave ar eview and if that individual didn’t have account on Yelp or Google Plus, they would be required to set up an account prior to leaving the review and a lot of people are going to leave at that point. When we send somebody to a private review page, there’s no login required, so it removes that barrier of entry. It allows them to collect a review in a controlled setting. So if that individual leaves a positive review, let’s say a four or five star review, then at that point, we can prompt them to then subsequently copy and paste that review to a public review site. Where they leave a one, two or three star review, then we can send them to a page that says, “Thank you so much for your feedback, we really value it as a customer; we’re sorry you had a less than ideal experience. Please give us a few more details to let us know how we can improve the situation.” We also send an immediate notification, whether it’s a positive or negative review directly to the office staff for that particular firm. So if it’s a positive review, they can call and thank them. They can even ask for referrals at that point because it is the ideal time. By contrast, if it’s a negative review, then they can contact them immediately and say, “Gosh, we’re so sorry you had this experience.” And by doing that, it not only increases the number of reviews that come in, because it removes that barrier of entry, but it also allows us to control which reviews are going public and which reviews are being addressed immediately so that they never go public. So that’s one of the ways that we can control that.

 

Christopher Anderson: That’s great. That accomplishes two huge goals; one is just simply good customer relations, right? Getting the feedback that you otherwise wouldn’t get and letting people have a safe space to give you negative and positive feedback and then also having a filter where the negative feedback helps you to save relationships and the positive feedback helps you to improve your reputation.

 

Michael Veinbergs: Absolutely.

 

Christopher Anderson: That’s really cool. You’ve talked about a platform that you’ve built and that your company provides. But let me ask, is this something that an attorney needs to hire a company like yours to do? Or are there some things that attorneys can do on their own to get started with reputation marketing?

 

Michael Veinbergs: There’s absolutely some things that people can do on their own. The platforms we create, to be quite honest, would cost somebody far more to create than it would just to use what we have already put in place. Aside from that, a few things that I would do if I were an attorney and I wanted to get started tomorrow with my reputation issues, first is just to become aware of what’s out here. So I would Google top review sites. You’re going to find sites like Google Plus, Yelp; you’re going to find smaller sites that you might not be aware of, obviously outside of Avvo. You’ll find sites like Merchant Circle or Insider Pages and a post of other ones. If you take a look at maybe the top 20 review sites, you’ll find them very quickly online. I would go to each one of those review sites and type in my name as an attorney and check that out. I would also go in and type in my firm name and take a look just to see what’s out there. Oftentimes, we have clients that will take on as a client and are unaware of what’s out there and they can have poor reviews that have been there for a year, two years, or three years that are hurting their practice without them being aware of it. The first thing I would do is go out and check out the reviews and see how I compare to the competitors, taking a look at my own practice and then taking a look at my top competitors in the area. My next thing that i would do is any reviews that are present, I would go ahead and leave a response for those. Not every site allows you to do that, but many of the larger sites do allow you to post a response. Best practice is to respond to both positive and negative reviews. That does two things: if you’re responding to a positive review, you’re positively reinforcing that activity and that can increase the number of positive reviews that come in. You’re also showing people that you care about your practice, that you care about the experience of people that you serve. And same thing with a negative review. If you have somebody that leaves you a scathing review and you leave it untouched, then in the quota of public opinion, you’re basically agreeing to whatever they have to say. But by contrast, if you go in there and you respond to that properly, then you can actually put your firm in a more positive light than if you didn’t have any negative reviews. And the reason I say that is because everybody knows if they’ve been in business for any length of time that you can please some of the people all of the time and all of the people some of the time, but you can’t please all of the people all of the time. So people will forgive you if you have a handful of negative reviews as long as you have some positive reviews to counteract that. There are practices that we’ve come across that we’ll start to do some research on and we’ll find that all they have are negative reviews, but they might only have two or three or four of them. In a week’s time, we can get them far more positive reviews and we can address that situation very quickly and easily. But they’ve let those negative reviews sit there, even if they were unaware of them, for a year or two, and that can really damage all of their marketing efforts. So by going in and at least responding to those, which you can do on your own, you can address those – and again I say properly because you have to be careful about how you do this. You don’t want to fan the flames if somebody is unhappy about their experience with you. So you need to be respectful, apologetic, and at the same time, even handed, I guess. And be sure, again, that you’re putting yourself in a positive light because people are going to judge you by your response. And there’s one other thing that I would recommend and that is make sure that you’re asking every single one of your best clients to leave a review for you. Even if you don’t have a platform set up that you can control what reviews are syndicated, even if you’re trying to do this on your own, go to the people that you know are going to leave you a great review and then ask them to do that.

 

Christopher Anderson: Great, great ideas. And one of the things that I’ve heard you say throughout this talk is one of the concerns that a lot of firms have that I’ve certainly seen in a lot of small businesses is that you see the friends and family reviews. Businesses left reviews for themselves or they’ve had employees leave reviews and it seems pretty obvious. You haven’t talked about that at all, you’re talking about getting really bonafide reviews up on the website.

Michael Veinbergs: Absolutely. In fact, I would caution anyone that’s listening to this to never post a review on your own behalf or have anybody in your office do that. That’s a really easy way to get your profile flagged or deleted. In other words, other people would be able to post reviews but you wouldn’t be able to respond to those reviews and that’s a really dangerous place to be. Also, if you have multiple reviews coming in from your own IP address; so for example, in your own office, even if it’s from different computers, if you have multiple reviews coming in, you’re going to get your profile flagged. So you want to make sure that again, these are bonafide, as you say, reviews, and they should be coming in from that individual’s own IP address, their own computer and their own office.

 

Christopher Anderson: So this is really great, I think you’ve given some great tips as to what people can do on their own tomorrow to get started with at least paying attention to and starting to manage and even market their reputation. And one of the ways you’ve talked about so far that you can enhance that effort is through the platform that you have for screening, for getting more reviews and then screening them and filtering them. So I’m really happy that a client has left me a good review on Avvo, but that doesn’t help me on Yelp or Google or ten other review sites. How can we leverage the one review into the broader, general marketplace?

 

Michael Veinbergs: So there’s two aspects to that. The first is that when we’re managing a reputation for somebody, we recognize that some people are going to run their search on Avvo, and they’re not going to pay attention to any other site. They’re going to directly to Avvo, run their search for an attorney, and look for an attorney that has great reviews. So it’s important to have great reviews on Avvo. Well, there’s other clients that are going to go only to Bing, and that’s the site that they prefer to use, so they’re going to run that search just within that ecosystem; so we have to have great reviews on that platform. There’s someone else that might love Merchant Circle, so we have to have great reviews on that platform. So what we do is we focus first on the sites that have the greatest impact on ranking and the greatest exposure. And then we start to direct people to leave reviews on these ancillary sites that might have less impact or less reach but are still important. So we manage that process for our clients. But outside of that, when you have great reviews that are showing up on one site, let’s say that you’re starting out and you’ve got 20 or 30 wonderful reviews on Avvo and nothing anyplace else, you can’t copy paste that review and place that on another site that is a review site, but again, what you can do is syndicate that information. So you could go in sequentially on some kind of a regular basis and copy that review and paste it into your Facebook or paste it into your Twitter or create a video and place that on YouTube. So you could replicate some of the things that we’re doing, it will just take you a lot longer than having a team do it. But that is certainly a way that you could expand the reach of that particular review.

 

Christopher Anderson: And the platform that you’ve got, does that broadcast the reviews that you capture out to more than one review site or is it still one at a time?

 

Michael Veinbergs: So the review itself is going to reside on one website. The syndication of that review is going to go to multiple social media sites, image sharing sites, video sharing sites, as well as being streamed to their own website. One of the reasons that I mention that is that a lot of times, people will place content on their own website. They might have a testimonials page and they’ll have great reviews there. But people know that on your own website, you have complete control of the content that goes there. So they may or may not trust that review. But what we do is we stream your best reviews to your website with direct live links to the website that you came from. So people can click on that review on your site and it goes directly to that neutral third party rating site so that validates all of the reviews on your site and again increases conversion rates.

 

Christopher Anderson: Very, very interesting.

 

Michael Veinbergs: I just want to mention one other thing that we do that’s also really important and this really drives to the core of reputation marketing and that is that sometimes we have clients that we deal with that even though they’re utilizing our services and they’re doing their best on the technical side to manage their reputation and to market their reputation, sometimes they fail at the core level of their customer service. Because if you have poor customer service, it doesn’t matter what you’re doing on the reputation marketing side. So one of the things that we also do when we’re doing a campaign kickoff for a client is that we train their staff for them. It’s really important that everybody on your team, whoever’s listening to this, everybody on your team needs to understand at least the basics of reputation marketing. So I encourage you to have them listen to this podcast and become more familiar with some of the reasons of the importance of reputation marketing and then have a meeting. Sit down with your staff and help them to understand their role for making sure that your firm shines online.

 

Christopher Anderson: That’s why you’re not called lipstick on a pig marketing. You’ve got to actually bring the level of service up to deserve the reputations that you’re getting but also be attentive to what the results of that are. I think that’s a really great point.

 

Michael Veinbergs: And just to add one more thing to that, if you’re doing that on your own, you need to make sure that you’re going in. You can’t just take a look at the review sites one time and expect that nothing’s going to change. If you’re doing this on your own, you need to go in on at least a monthly basis to every single one of those review sites and you need to take a look at any new reviews that have been posted. Part of our service, we’re going to provide that. We do all that research for you, we put it into a beautiful report and we’ll send it out to them. And it’s an opportunity not just to take a look at that and go on with your day, but to sit down with your staff, go through that and help them to understand you’re showing them the importance of that and you’re also taking the opportunity to affirm them when they’re doing things well and to make corrections when you’re seeing problems that are repetitive.

 

Christopher Anderson: Yeah, and that’s a really important point too. Everybody’s got to understand that reputation marketing is not one and done. This is an ongoing thing that every business and certainly every law firm business needs to be paying attention to; which leads me to my final question for you, Michael. We’ve talked about what reputation management is and reputation marketing is. And in that conversation, we’ve understood and noticed that this is really kind of new stuff. Online reputation has become important only in the past couple of years. I wonder if you’ve got any insight as to what’s coming. What trends do you see today that will affect reputation management and marketing in the coming years and will it continue to be important?

 

Michael Veinbergs: There was a study done in 2011 from Google called the ZMOT Study or the Zero Moment of Truth Study, and that, I would say, was really the beginning of reputation online. And what they found was 84% of the people that are looking for a product or service are going to do their research now. They’ve changed they’re buying behavior based on the reviews that they find about a particular business or a particular product. That’s actually just grown in importance in recent years. There was last year a study done by Compete.com, they found that the top ten review sites had an increase of 158% in traffic. So I would say that it’s not going anywhere. If anything, it’s growing in importance. Now, of course, it’s part of the ranking algorithm, so I don’t know if I would say there’s any trends that we’re seeing at this time that are indicating a decrease in the importance. We are with the tools that we have and the strategies that we employ. We are ahead of the curve. We’re not seeing anything slowing down. Really, I think it’s more of the same, it’s just a matter of taking action now. I think a lot of the people kind of sit on the sidelines; they’ll absorb this information and they’ll say, “Yep, that sounds like a great idea, I really need to get around that sometime.” If they take action now, then six months from now, they’ll be lightyears ahead of their competition. No changes unless the listeners make the change.

 

Christopher Anderson: Got it, it makes sense. Michael, thank you so very much. This wraps up this edition of the Un-Billable Hour, the law business advisory podcast. Our guest today has been Michael Veinbergs. You can learn more about Michael and what he does for his customers by checking out his website at www.Mach4Marketing.com. You can check out his Twitter feed, @Mach4Marketing, email him at [email protected] or check out his LinkedIn also at Mach4Marketing. My name, again, is Christopher Anderson. I look forward to seeing you next month with another great guest as we learn more about great topics that help us build the law firm business that works for you. Remember that you can subsrbie to all the editions of this podcast at LegalTalkNetwork.com or on iTunes. Thanks for joining us and we’ll see you again soon.

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