Previewing ABA TECHSHOW 2025

Episode Notes

Transcript

Molly Ranns:

Hello and welcome to another edition of the State Bar of Michigan’s On Balance Podcast on Legal Talk Network. I’m Molly Ranns.

JoAnn Hathaway:

And I’m JoAnn Hathaway. We are very pleased to have Julie Bays and Steve Embry joining us today as our podcast guest. Julie is the Oklahoma Bar Association’s practice management advisor where she works closely with theBar Management Assistance program, helping attorneys with technology tools and management techniques to streamline their practices. Steve is an attorney and publisher of the famous tech law Crossroads, which is a blog devoted to the practical issues of law, innovation and technology. He is also past chair of the ABAs Law Practice Division. Both Julie and Steve are the esteemed co-chairs of a a tech show 2025, and we are thrilled to have them here with us today. And with that, Julie and Steve, would you share some more information about yourselves with our listeners? And Julie, let’s start with you.

Julie A. Bays:

Yes, I’m glad to be here, JoAnn and Molly. So I started my career in the Attorney General’s office of Oklahoma, and what I specialized in was consumer issues. And those consumer issues included internet crimes and internet fraud. And so my interest in tech was always there from the very beginning. And so when this job, this practice management advisor job came up, it had to do with really helping attorneys with tech technology and helping them make decisions regarding what to adopt and what not to adopt. So I felt like this was perfect for me and so that’s when I decided to, when I retired from there, come over here to the Oklahoma Bar Association. And Steve, what about you?

Stephen Embry:

Well, thanks JoAnn and thanks Molly. It’s good to be here and it’s good to hear from you again, Julie. I practiced law for a little over 30 years at that time, an amwa 200 firm, it’s probably an amwa 100 firm now. I primarily worked in the mass court defense arena traveling quite a bit and practicing in various jurisdictions. And as a result of that, I had to be fairly familiar with technology and how things worked and was very interested in it and left the full-time practice in 2017 to devote my energies to the blog Tech Walk Crossroads, which has been a lot of fun. And as you’ve noted, I’ve been active in the a variety positions and really enjoy working this year with Julie on Tech Show 2025. We’re really excited about it. Got a lot of good programming and a lot of good things coming up, so thank you for having me.

Molly Ranns:

We’re so glad to have you both here with us today. As someone who doesn’t consider herself to be very tech competent, I’m hoping you can help us understand what makes a tech show different than other legal technology conferences. Steve, let’s start with you on that one.

Stephen Embry:

I go to a lot of legal technology conferences and they’re all slightly different. The thing that’s unique about tech show is it’s primarily geared to solo and small firm lawyers that practice in smaller firms. And as a result of that, we typically get a lot of lawyers attending the conference conference. And these are people that are actually looking at products that they’re going to use themselves. They’re looking at innovations that they could perhaps put in practice at their firm. They’re looking for educational sessions that are devoted to their particular needs and problems. And that’s a little bit unique because some of the other legal tech conferences are more geared to larger firms and they tend to be more IT oriented. Questions are different, audiences different, but these people that go to tech show, they’re really there to show me session, don’t give me a lot of sales, don’t talk about a lot of stuff that isn’t going to help me, but show me a product and show me how it’s going to help me. And that changes the dialogue I think quite a bit, both in the educational sessions and with our presenters and also with our exhibitors and sponsors who they understand the audience and they come to teach more than Sell, which is a really unique thing. So it’s a wonderful show. We’ve got a lot of many repeat attendees. We’ve got hopefully got some new attendees this year. And it’s a collegial sort of informal conference where people are learning and exchanging ideas and more than they’re partying or networking or anything else. So Julia, what have I missed?

Julie A. Bays:

I don’t think you’ve missed anything. I think the great thing about tech show is the camaraderie between the attendees. I know my first tech show when I went, I was surprised at just how close a lot of the attendees were and the new attendees just needed help. And there was always attorneys that have been around because it could be overwhelming. The tech, like Molly said, she’s not really a techie, so it can be sort of overwhelming. And this year at McCormick Place it might even be more overwhelming. But what’s great about it is the attendees take the newbies under their wings and help them navigate the sessions and the expo floor. And so it’s a really nice close conference compared to some of the others I’ve been to. And so it makes a difference.

JoAnn Hathaway:

So we always see such a wide range of attendees at tech show and that’s something I love about it. So staying on that topic, I’ve seen everything from solo practitioners to big firm lawyers, and I think Steve touched upon this briefly, it’s always a nice mix. Can you talk more about who the audience is and really what might be considered a typical attendee if there is such a thing?

Stephen Embry:

We do have a wide mix. I would say that the one thing that’s a little bit unique about our show is we have a lot of lawyers who attend. We have tech people and IT people as well, but the majority of the attendees are lawyers and these are the people that are actually using the products. These are the people that are actually going to adopt what’s being talked about. And our typical attendee would be a lawyer in a smaller firm, perhaps even a lawyer with his or her own firm. We get a lot of younger warriors who are coming to learn and that’s fairly typical. And you’re right, we do get people from larger firms, but they tend to be lawyers as opposed to IT people or marketing people or people that are on tech committees that may not actually practice law.

Julie A. Bays:

Yes. I’d like to throw in there too, I was thinking about the University of Oklahoma since I’m based out of Oklahoma, but they bring a large contingent every year of law students. They have a very well done tech program at the law school, and so they bring their students and the professors that teach them to tech show to help them see what’s new, look at the expo floor, take classes, figure out what lawyers need to know when they actually go out and practice. And so I go because I need to teach our lawyers what’s good for them and what’s out there technologically. It’s good for practice management advisors too because what we get out of it is we get to learn the new and current stuff that lawyers can use and we get to evaluate products on expo floor. And then we also get to just learn how to do things like navigating Microsoft 365. It’s always a really good show to attend for lawyers. Like Steve says, some of these other shows, it’s Law Librarians or it’s more IT Tech or it’s actually, there was one show this year very recently that included mostly startup companies and they were bringing lawyers to that conference so that they could show their new startups.

Molly Ranns:

Julie, let’s kick this question over to you. I attend a lot of conferences where you have the presenter selling some of their own books or programs from the platform. I understand that you have a no selling from the podium guideline. What does that mean and why do you have it?

Julie A. Bays:

Because we have so many sessions that are given by certain companies that actually have products that they want to sell. They have space on the expo floor to do that, but they’re also usually the experts on using their platforms. For instance, practice management software or for Microsoft for instance. Those employees for those companies are going to teach class. We just really don’t want them and the lawyers don’t want to hear a sales pitch from the podium. And that’s our main thing. I know that when it does in a rare occasion in the past anyway, and this is years ago, would try to sell something from the podium, those lawyers would get really upset because lawyers just don’t like that. And so we make it clear to our speakers and our faculty before they speak that there’s no selling from the podium. They can promote themselves on their social media prior to speaking, and they can promote the tech show along with what they’re speaking about and their product. But when they’re up there teaching their CLE, most of the lawyers there are there to learn and not be talked to as if they’re being sold a product.

Stephen Embry:

It goes almost without saying, so the good speakers know what they’re doing. If you’re going to give an effective presentation, the last thing you want to do is just to try to sell your product with a lot of BS and marketing and it never works. And the really good presenters know that and are able to in essence market and promote their product by giving a good presentation, which is the best way to do it. And our experienced speakers are really, really good at that.

Julie A. Bays:

Oh yeah. I’m thinking about a couple of speakers right now that they actually work for the companies, but they are amazing presenters of the products, so they don’t need to sell from the podium. And so we always have a faculty meeting prior to tech show and the speakers are made aware of this rule.

JoAnn Hathaway:

So I know Tech Show 2025 is making the big move to a new venue this year, McCorick Place. Why did you decide to switch venues? And now that we’re getting closer to the event, how’s everything going with the new space and with the move? And Steve, why don’t you start off with this?

Stephen Embry:

Sure. It’s kind of an abundance of riches I guess. We had been the Hyatt Regency in downtown Chicago for several years and we were starting to bump up against limitations on space, space for the sponsors space, for the exhibitors space for rooms. We wanted to try to get to a place where we could stay a very long time and not have to worry about moving again. And McCormick Place really just fit the bill. I mean, it is one of the largest, if not the largest convention spaces in the United States, and I think we’ll have plenty of room in McCormick place for growth in the future. The future shows, this is the 40th anniversary of tech show. If you go back over the years, we have moved several times during those 40 years. At each time we moved, it was because we needed more space and more better facilities. And this is just a natural evolution and it’s a good thing because we’re growing and we’re getting more exhibitors and more sponsors and more attendees, and it’s a good problem to have.

Julie A. Bays:

So McCorick place, it’s going wonderfully well. The space is so nice, the expo floor is going to be really larger and not as cramped feeling. I know that in the past, just like Steve was saying, the Hyatt Regency downtown, the expo floor where the vendors were getting a little crowded, especially during those breaks where all the lawyers would run down there to try to talk to vendors about their products. And so I just started feeling claustrophobic myself. Right now it’s going great at McCormick Place because we’ve sold as many vendors as usual plus some, and they’re excited. I think Cleo’s going to have a puppy lounge. We might even have a ball court of some kind. We’re going to just have a really good time this year. Plus we’ve got a beautiful venue, so we had to make some changes of course, and for the better.

And so we’ve got the Lakeside view, so when attendees walk in, they’re going to see that beautiful. There’s going to be a room where it shows a large window where you can see that lakeside view. It’s just going to be gorgeous. And so far, so good. Everything has been going wonderfully and the McCormick people have been working out. The one thing I do want to say about McCormick Place is that the Hyatt Regency McCormick is connected by a walkway, but it is quite a distance. And so tech show is planning to have scooters available for attendees that don’t feel like that they can walk that distance between the hotel and the actual conference center. It’s a walk, but it is connected just so everybody knows.

Stephen Embry:

I would also add that this year’s show is a little later. It’s the first week in April as opposed to the last week in February or mid-February. And certainly we can make no promises about Chicago weather at any point in time, but I’m hopeful that having it in early April will be a tad bit warmer and people can get outside, maybe some, and enjoy the lake and the views and that sort of thing.

Molly Ranns:

That all sounds beautiful and I love the idea of a puppy lounge. That is absolutely wonderful. We are going to take a short break from our conversation with Julie and Steve to thank our sponsors. Welcome

JoAnn Hathaway:

Back. We’re thrilled to be here today with Julie Bays and Steve Embry talking about the infamous a tech show conference in its 40th year, why you should attend and what it has to

Molly Ranns:

Offer. As I’ve already disclosed, I feel like staying updated on technology can sometimes feel very overwhelming. How does a tech show make this process approachable and even enjoyable, contributing to lawyers’ confidence, peace of mind, and even overall wellbeing?

Julie A. Bays:

Well, we have a lot of volunteers that help. So what happens is it can be overwhelming. So we usually have a concierge desk of some kind where there are pros or past co-chairs of the A tech show or just the legal tech community in general is always there to help and to guide new attendees, especially which sessions they should look at, because we’ve got, I think over 71 sessions this year, and so that’s quite a few sessions. And so we try to make it easy by putting certain sessions in one room, like for instance, the Microsoft Sessions are all going to be in this one room during the two day event. And then of course we have our Saturday event in the morning and we try to make it fun and like I said, a lot of volunteers, a lot of people there to answer questions and to be helpful.

We also will have a bigger, now this year, a BA hub. It’s going to be somewhere down on the expo floor where people can come and ask questions of the legal tech community down there too. And that’s going to be not down. The expo floor is no longer down in the basement like it was last year. It’s going to be on the same floors, but they can go to that hub and they can ask questions about tech show and the expo floor or the sessions or they can just grab anybody that’s at the concierge desk and ask them any questions that they may have.

Stephen Embry:

We’re a very friendly and approachable group. I think people that have questions, they can approach anybody that’s been around for a while and we’re all glad to help people that have been to tech show over several years basically love it. And we want to help people when we want people to be enthusiastic and have a good time. We have several networking events that we do to get people involved, and it’s an easy show to get around despite the fact that it looks rather daunting when you look at it on paper.

Julie A. Bays:

Yes, and there is one other thing. We do what’s called Taste of Tech Show, and this year we have more venues available. What that is is Thursday’s the first full day of course of tech show and then Thursday night they will have at least 15 different venues available to them after a short reception at the conference center that they can have dinner with some of our speakers, some of our top speakers. And so that’s what Taste of text show. They’ll have the ability to sign up and have dinner with one of our big speakers and ask them any questions they want. That’s one of the most enjoyable things that happens at text show. I hear that from the speakers that get to do it, and I hear that from the attendees that attend these dinners with these speakers

JoAnn Hathaway:

Has been mentioned. This is a milestone year being the 40th anniversary of Tech show. And actually after attending 16 of these myself over the years, I can attest to how much it has evolved. Can you share what’s planned for this special anniversary year and what you’re most excited about when you think about celebrating this major milestone?

Julie A. Bays:

Well, what I’m most excited about isn’t what I should be talking about first, what I’m most excited about is our Saturday programming because on Saturday we usually do, it’s common most years do what’s called 60 tips and 60 tips in 60 minutes. And it’s always a fun lightning round session where the chairs or a couple or three people get up and talk about the current tech tips for this year. And it’s usually fun and it’s exciting and the audience gets involved. Well, we still have that on Saturday, but also on Saturday we have a CLE session with two judges in the morning talking about AI and how they approach AI in their Courtroom. But after that, what we have is we’re going to have 40 tech tips in 40 years. And what that entails is a bunch, when I say a bunch, I’m thinking we’re at 13 or 14 past co-chairs over the years.

Some of them are getting up there in years, but what they’re going to do is they’re going to get up there and they’re going to talk about what tech tips they did oh, 40 years ago compared to today. For instance, somebody’s going to compare the revolutionary HP cap share portable scanner of 2000 versus what we do now with our mobile phones because a lot’s changed, gosh, since the eighties. And so it’s going to be a lot of fun. They’ve put together a wonderful program, the past chairs that are attending, they’re just doing this for free and for fun. And so I think that that’s the first thing that’s going to be fun. And then on Friday night, we’re going to have a 40th birthday anniversary and it’s going to be eighties style. And we also know that some of our board members are really getting excited about this because they’re looking into their eighties costumes and what they’re going to wear. But that should be a lot of fun too, and I’m really looking forward to those 40 tech tips in 40 years.

Stephen Embry:

It’s really interesting because when you look at the history of tech show and think about where it started, it started in the mid eighties with just a handful of young lawyers and back in those days there was not a lot of technology in the legal space, probably almost none. And so they set out to create this show to generate interest in it. It just grew from there. So we’re really excited about the 40th anniversary and being able to look at how far we’ve come in the legal tech space, how far we’ve come in into practice in using technology and all the things that it can do and the things that it will do in the near future.

Molly Ranns:

Yeah, a puppy lounge and an eighties party, this is sounding better and better. So I know this startup competition is popular. Can you talk about how that works and what the process is for that?

Julie A. Bays:

Yes, so Bob, he’s got a blog that’s called Law Sites and he evaluates products and he’s also considered a legal tech reporter. Basically that’s what his blog does [email protected]. And so what he does every year is he puts out a call for nominations for startup competitions, and this year we had a record number of nominations for new startup legal startup, and there’s certain rules that he puts in it to, it has to be a regularly new startup. And so within the last year or two, it can’t be a company that’s been around for a long, long time and that we really want new startups. And then out of that, this year, I don’t remember Steve, but it was over 40, 50 some nominations. Usually it’s around the 30 or so, 30, 40. Anyway, so this year it was quite large, and then the tech show board, basically the chairs and co-chairs of vice-chairs narrow those applicants or those nominations down to 25, and then after it’s down to 25, Bob puts ’em on this website and lets the public vote for their top 15.

And then out of that 15, they’re invited to tech show with a special place on the expo floor for their startups. And what happens is Wednesday night before Tech show gets started on Thursday, it actually starts on Wednesday night with the startup competition, and what happens is the startup companies, their representative gets to get up there and pitch their product for three minutes, and it’s a lot of fun. The audience always gets really involved because the audience then votes through an app on who wins the competition, and usually we know who’s first, second, and third. It’s always exciting because for instance, a couple of years ago, I think it was the 20, actually, I think it was right before covid, the 2020 competition where I think it was clear brief that won because she, and this is a great product by the way, if you haven’t checked out Clear Brief, you need to check out Clear Brief, but she actually is an operatic singer, and so she’s saying her pitch, and of course she won and she went on to develop this product that was clear brief, and now it’s raised, I dunno how many millions of dollars and law schools are using it.

Other people are using clear brief. It’s also a great way for startup companies to get their foot in the door and let these investors know that they’re out there. It’s just worked out great for a lot of people.

JoAnn Hathaway:

I know from experience with so many sessions to choose from that it can be tough to decide which ones to attend. And it sounds like you’re having a record number this year. I’d like to hear more about what’s on your radar and if there are any sessions you’re both particularly excited about this year.

Stephen Embry:

It’s hard to pick a few that really stand out because we have so many. We have Dr. Moore Grossman, who’s one of the world’s leading experts on artificial intelligence in the legal space speaking. We have a judge’s panel with Judge Scott Shale among others. He’s very well known in the judge tech community. Very good speaker has a lot to say and a lot to offer. Jack Newton, the CEO of Clio. He will be speaking as he has most years. He’s also an excellent speaker and probably one of the leading innovators in the legal space with Clio. We’re offering the legal tech week journalist round table consisting of some of the leading journalists, legal tech journalists to talk about the developments over the past year that are most significant. And Julia has mentioned the 60 by 60 and 40 by 40, and we’re just really excited you’ve hit the nail on the head. It’s hard to pick from all the good presentations that we’ve got. We had a record number of people seeking to speak this year and it was a tough competition to select which speakers would get to actually present it. It took some time to sort through all that, but so we’re really, really happy and really thrilled with the result that we’ve got.

Julie A. Bays:

Oh yeah, so we had over 309 submissions for proposals for speaking. So we have the best speakers I think out there. Steve mentioned Jack Newton with Clio. His topic is going to be about regulation and the cloud because when the cloud first came out, there was a lot of judges that panicked and wanted to regulate heavily regulate the cloud technology, and we’re sort of seeing the same thing with ai. So I think his presentation is going to be interesting. We’ve also have Cat Moon and Professor Lena, and they are both professors and they are experts also on ai. And so we’ve got some really big people when it comes to ai, but we also have Microsoft’s Ben Shore, he’s going to demonstrate live his Microsoft’s copilot that integrates with Microsoft 365. He did that last year, but it’s just grown and it’s changed, so he’s going to do it again. And that room was so packed last year we couldn’t get everybody in. And so that’s another one that’s going to be great. We’ve got women of legal tech. A couple of speakers are going to discuss women of legal tech over the years and the progress and the lack of progress. So there’s some exciting sessions and so it’s going to be tough to pick,

Stephen Embry:

But Julie makes a good point. We’ve got some really practically oriented sessions. Brett, Bernie and Tara Achiever have a two-part presentation on the use of iPad and Apple technology in litigation and in the Courtroom we’ve got two outstanding trial lawyers who are going to come and present on artificial intelligence and how lawyers can use it, and also how to use technological tools in the Courtroom to persuade and convince judges and juries. So there’s a whole gamut and range of educational sessions for just about every interest that anybody would have.

Molly Ranns:

Yeah, the sessions sound absolutely phenomenal. I guess as we’re wrapping up today, I do have to ask who is the keynote and why was that person selected?

Stephen Embry:

We’re really excited about the keynote. The keynote will be given by Corey Doc Toro. He’s a well-known science fiction novelist, which is not why he was asked to speak, but he’s a journalist and a real thought leader in the cybersecurity and digital space. I’ve seen him speak before. He’s got some really interesting theories about how technology companies are becoming so dominant in our society and how they’re exerting so much control and what they can do and will do and do to consumers, their consumers once they obtain that kind of control. He’s got a catchy name for it, which I won’t repeat on the show because it’s got a four letter word in it, but he’s very convincing and he’s got a lot of theories on what we as a society and a group can do. I think this is all relevant, particularly in the legal space because as everyone knows, the investment in legal technology vendors has skyrocketed. We have a lot of venture capitalists floating in a lot of combinations, and these companies are getting larger and some of them are getting to be really dominant in our space. Corey’s theories about technology companies and what they can and might do, I think is particularly relevant as the legal market emerges from small mom and pops ex lawyers trying to solve a problem to really big entities with lots of capital, and I think it’s going to be a fascinating presentation.

JoAnn Hathaway:

Well, it looks like we’ve come to the end of our show, but before we wrap up, I just want to mention for our listeners who are members of the State Bar of Michigan, don’t forget to use the special code EP 2 5 0 9 when you register for Tech Show to get a discount. And for more information on this, you can visit the State bar of Michigan’s [email protected] and on the landing page are details about this discount. Also, for those listeners outside of Michigan, you may wish to check with your state or local bar associations to see if they’re tech show program promoters, and if they are, you may be eligible for a discount. And with that, we’d like to thank our guest today, Julie Bays and Steve Embry for a wonderful program.

Julie A. Bays:

Thank you, JoAnn.

Stephen Embry:

Thank you, JoAnn and Molly

Molly Ranns:

Starting with you. Julian, moving on to you. Steve, if our guests would like to follow up with you, what is the best way to do so?

Julie A. Bays:

The best way to get ahold of you is probably through my email, which is Julie, J-U-L-I-E, b as in boy, so Julie B at OK bar, OKBA r.org.

Stephen Embry:

People can reach me by accessing my blog tech crossroads and leaving a message, or they can email me. My email is s [email protected].

Molly Ranns:

Thank you both again for being here with us today.

Stephen Embry:

Thank you. Thank you for having us.

Molly Ranns:

This has been another edition of the State Bar of Michigan’s On Balance Podcast. I’m JoAnn Hathaway. And I’m Molly Ranns. Until next time. Thank you for listening.

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