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Elie Mystal

Elie Mystal is the Managing Editor of Above the Law Redline and the Editor-At-Large of Breaking Media. He’s appeared...

Joe Patrice

Joe Patrice is an Editor at Above the Law. For over a decade, he practiced as a litigator at...

Episode Notes

Joe and Elie continue to offer their answers on questions they’ve received from prospective law students asking “where should I go to school?” Balancing regional offers? Trying to decide what market to practice in? Choosing between the murky world of “just below T14”? Tune in and hear our advice on how to properly manage the law school adventure.

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Above the Law – Thinking like a Lawyer
Law School Decision 2019 (Part II)


Intro: Welcome to Thinking like a Lawyer with your hosts Elie Mystal and Joe Patrice, talking about legal news and pop culture, all while thinking like a lawyer, here on Legal Talk Network.


Joe Patrice: Hello, welcome to another edition of Thinking Like a Lawyer. I am Joe Patrice from Above the Law. I’m with Elie Mystal!

Elie Mystal: I’m so sick of being a fucking democrat.

Joe Patrice: Okay, cool. Anyway, so moving to the next, oh gee, were you going to talk more about that? I was —

Elie Mystal: I just, I don’t understand how I have been a part – I have been member, right, since 18-years-old, I have been an official member of the party, I voted for democrats in every single elections, state, local, and federal of my life. I voted for democrat when the democrat running was the guy who my father was fucking instead of my mother, and she was democrat and I voted for her, all right because that’s how I roll.

But the spinelessness of this party, the President of the United States has committed obstruction of justice along with other crimes we refused to impeach him.

Joe Patrice: That’s correct. That is the right move.

Elie Mystal: The Secretary of the Treasury refuses the law, refuses to release Donald Trump’s taxes, we refuse to impeach him. We refuse to hold him in contempt.

Joe Patrice: Right.

Elie Mystal: Other Trump administration officials refused to answer duly authorized subpoenas from Congress, we refuse to do anything to them. We refuse to do anything.

Joe Patrice: Yeah because the Democrats are trying to win and not lose.

Elie Mystal: No. They are not.

Joe Patrice: No, no absolutely, they are. Here is a little problem and I wrote something about this the other day. It is absolutely right for 2020 candidates to talk as much as possible by how they believe he should be impeached because it is a very valuable thing. It is a valuable fundraising tool and whipping up the base tool. It is not a particularly good idea for someone to actually initiate – the Democrats who actually initiated impeachment hearings.

For the same reason is it is the political strategery equivalent of the underpants gnomes for South Park. Step one impeach, step two question mark but the question mark means an acquittal, step three profit, there is no endgame I tell you, that’s a no —

Elie Mystal: No, there is an endgame. Many Republicans —

Joe Patrice: And that endgame —

Elie Mystal: Many Republicans on the record that they voted to acquit Donald Trump is an endgame.

Joe Patrice: Right, it is not, there is nothing gained by doing that. The people who you are going to put on the record that’s going to impact their livelihood and they already have said that they won’t vote for this way. So there’s nothing to be gained.

What there is however to be gained is not getting an acquittal because you and I as lawyers understand that maybe an acquittal especially in that sort of context doesn’t mean anything. What you give Donald Trump in six weeks if you impeached him today is the ability to spend the next 18 months walking around saying they had a try when I was acquitted which puts you on the defensive. The alternative —

Elie Mystal: No, it doesn’t.

Joe Patrice: Oh, absolutely it does because somebody got acquitted. The alternative is to do what is actually happening, which is talk about it and complain about it constantly, keep investigating, keep asking for things, keep doing things and make it be a story to all time.

In some ways, the James Comey, everybody comes straight on the — I have said been on the record misinterpretation of what he did at the very end of the election. But it was related to what people under remember which is Hillary was really having a hard time in that election, was getting hammered on e-mails and servers, that sort of stuff and how the FBI is looking into it and they are going to find something and that was a story that was dogging her until the summer when James Comey came out and said, certain things were done, they are not criminal, it’s over.

At which point, she saw huge daylight happen because once somebody says something like that, that’s when the daylight happens. Her ultimately when Comey wrote the letter at the end which I think was blown out of proportion, that’s what brought her back to where she would’ve been the entire time. If you allow and —

Elie Mystal: I do not think that Mitch McConnell has anywhere near the credibility of Jim Comey. Joe, can I just ask you a simple question?

Joe Patrice: Yeah.

Elie Mystal: Because you have dodged it the entire time.

Joe Patrice: Sure.

Elie Mystal: Do you think Donald Trump committed a crime?

Joe Patrice: I think, yeah, it seems from that report that he committed obstruction of justice, sure.

Elie Mystal: If the President committed a crime, what is the mechanism for holding him accountable in the constitution?

Joe Patrice: There is two things at play here. Yes, it would be impeachment. I would prefer he be out of office, not that you give him a weapon to stay in office.

Elie Mystal: So you are on team sealed-indictment because Mueller wouldn’t do that either.

Joe Patrice: No, no, absolutely no.

Elie Mystal: So how — was your plan — what is your plan —

Joe Patrice: To win an election.

Elie Mystal: — for holding Donald Trump accountable.

Joe Patrice: Winning an election, an election –

Elie Mystal: Winning an election doesn’t hold him accountable for the crimes he has committed.

Joe Patrice: Sure.

Elie Mystal: He just gets away with it.

Joe Patrice: Sure. But if you don’t do this he wins and then he gets another four years to get away with what he did. So how about instead I think what’s happening here is for the first time in a longtime, Democrats seem way more strategically brilliant than they have been in years and going the wrong way on them.


Because what is true is the more these candidates talk about it and complain that nothing is happening, the more energy fundraising and so on they do, it’s a smart play on their part. But yes, this is the Happy Gilmore ending. You’re coming in like Julie Bowen’s character saying, we’ll get the rules changed to deal with all this, and I’m much like happy like going, no I’m going to go ahead and beat him right now.

And that’s the decision why you don’t do something like that that jeopardizes and puts out there in the world an acquittal which will be interpreted and analyzed to death as though a reason he’s okay.

Elie Mystal: You sound like Shooter McGavin.

Joe Patrice: No, it’s happy, but yeah.

Elie Mystal: You sound like Shooter McGavin. I think the Democrats have missed the memo that their base wants them to hold Donald Trump accountable.

Joe Patrice: Right.

Elie Mystal: But speaking of the cause —

Joe Patrice: That’s true, that’s true, and that’s why they are getting fundraising out of this, that’s why it’s brilliant on that part and it’s a brilliance that goes away the second you actually do something. It is the –

Elie Mystal: The most cynical argument that I have never heard.

Joe Patrice: It is the Schrödinger’s cat. Well and I mean it’s — we saw it happen in the last election. Anyway, but yes, your attempt was not in vain. I did hear that it was like a missed call, which brings us to the real question here which is are you missing calls, are you spread too thin, interruptions kill your productivity but clients demand a quick response. The US-based professional receptionist at help law firms screen new clients and schedule appointments by phone and website chat. Plus integrates with your software including Clio and LawPay. Plan start at just $60 per month, get a free trial at

So back to the same topic we were on last week, we are going to go through some more of these decisions that you all have sent us about figuring out where you should go to law school, so.

Elie Mystal: Just for the uninitiated this is the time when law students are making their decisions as to where to go law school. A lot of students are out there who have a multitude of options, some of the them have multitude of great options, some multitude of I should take the outside again options but still.

Joe Patrice: Yeah. All right.

Elie Mystal: We are here to help.

Joe Patrice: Let’s start with the New York area and we will move around. New York area, Cardozo getting $15,000 per year, St. Jonh’s full scholarship, Brooklyn getting $30,000 per year, Rutgers getting 25.

Elie Mystal: Hmm. Free is good.

Joe Patrice: Oh wait, sorry, sorry. I also – I missed one because it’s not highlighted the same way and also Fordham no package given yet but expect to get some kind of package.

Elie Mystal: Yeah, no Fordham is the best ranked school on the list.

Joe Patrice: That’s why I was going to say.

Elie Mystal: But at no money compared to everybody else. I don’t think it’s, I don’t even think it’s in the running.

Joe Patrice: I think Fordham and Cardozo probably out of that, even though Cardozo is the least amount of money but yeah, I feel like if it’s Fordham you make it work, especially if you’re expecting to get something. If it’s full sticker price then I think you reconsider but if —

Elie Mystal: So you’re saying – so you are saying if it’s anything – let’s say they give the person as much at Fordham as they got at Cardozo, you’re saying go for Fordham.

Joe Patrice: Then I think I will go Fordham.

Elie Mystal: I think you take the money. I think you take either the free from St. John’s or $30,000 at Brooklyn is significant.

Joe Patrice: That’s not bad, that’s a good point.

Elie Mystal: Brooklyn is a bit expensive as these things go, so I don’t know that what you are left over a $30,000, I don’t know how much that leaves over.

Joe Patrice: And in fairness, Rutgers is probably functionally free after the —

Elie Mystal: At 25. I mean if you’re special, are they in States or not?

Joe Patrice: Oh that’s a thing. As you and I both know New Jersey’s rules are pretty lax. I think after a semester, you get to be in States.

Elie Mystal: Yeah.

Joe Patrice: So that package actually may be pretty good.

Elie Mystal: Yeah, and I think that’s where would I go. I think I’d be choosing between St. John’s, Brooklyn and Rutgers and depending on the in-stateness and that makes Rutgers if you can get yourself to the point where as a 2L, Rutgers is functionally free. I’ll probably go Rutgers.

I think Cardozo and again this is the — look I understand U.S. News, I understand the bang for your buck that you Fordham is a named school on U.S. News, I think sticker price or with just a little bit of money, I don’t think that the bang justifies carrying that kind of debt.

Joe Patrice: Yeah, so we are a little bit of disagreement there. I think this is probably slightly more Fordham assuming you get something but that’s a very tough one. That’s probably not the most satisfying answer in the world but you’ve got some good options and it’s tough one.

All right, let’s go national, Colombia full price, Berkeley also full price but believe there could be some small package coming with that, Georgetown with a $45,000 scholarship per year and UCLA with a $35,000 scholarship per year.


Elie Mystal: Well, first you got to ask where you want to live, I mean you have obviously got East Coast or West Coast in there, you have got New York or DC, you have got LA. If you have a strong preference to live in one of those places, you go to the place where you want to live and you figure out the rest. So that’s number one. Assuming you don’t have a strong preference of where to live and by the way, how do you get through your life without having a strong preference of whether or not you want to live in New York, DC, or LA I mean or San Francisco, I mean come on, blow it anyway.

Joe Patrice: Yeah I don’t know about that, but —

Elie Mystal: Blow it anyway. Assuming that you either don’t have a strong preference or you are willing to take a chance in a new city, Columbia is one of the only schools that can justify full price. However, with a good option like Berkeley, if you get money from Berkeley with a good option like Georgetown where you are getting a lot of money, and with a good option like UCLA where you are getting lot of money, I think that if you go to Columbia at full price then you have to be the kind of person who is like I want big law, I want big law, I want the white shoe firm, I want the Wall Street office, I want all that lifestyle at which point Columbia even at full price puts you in the best position to have that lifestyle.

If you want anything else, and if you want to have the option of maybe doing anything else at any point, go to Georgetown or UCLA.

Joe Patrice: Yeah. I feel out of this Georgetown is slightly the best option but like a slight favorite but yeah obviously these are all great schools, they are all good places to end up assuming Berkeley gets you something year around.

Elie Mystal: Why assuming with the money basically being even why Georgetown over UCLA without knowing where this person wants to live?

Joe Patrice: I feel Georgetown offers a little bit more relocation potential like if you have a Georgetown law degree, you can work in DC or New York or probably Boston. You have options there. Frankly, all of these schools are good enough like you’re a superstar from any these schools, you can kind of go where ever you want to go. But I feel like Georgetown offers a bit more flexibility among major legal markets, that’s it.

Elie Mystal: Yeah I mean I get that. I feel like UCLA suffers a little but from East Coast bias, right, like we are on the East Coast, the legal industry is fundamentally centered on the East Coast, they don’t have lawyers in Los Angeles we all know that. So I do feel like it suffers a little bit from there.

I feel like UCLA have a lot of portability if you want to work in Los Angeles or San Francisco or San Diego or Reno probably. I don’t know why you want to work in Reno but like I am sure you could with your UCLA degree. I don’t know like I said as between UCLA and Georgetown, you have to make a call on where you want to live.

As between UCLA and Georgetown versus Columbia or Berkeley to a lesser extent, I think you have to make a decision about where you want to work and if you want to work in a certain kind of firm and that’s just what you want from your life, Columbia puts you in the best position.

Joe Patrice: Right, certain kind of firm if you’re interested in clerking and all that sort of thing then Columbia if you think doing those things is worth the debt setback that you are going to go through then you can do that.

Elie Mystal: The debt setback isn’t as great if you’re — if all you want to live is to make a $100,000 and $90,000 a year when you graduate from law school.

Joe Patrice: Right.

Elie Mystal: Like that’s all you want then the debt setback, I mean it’s still going to be a live debt but like, you will be fine.

Joe Patrice: Right, but I would say you’d still make that money if you went to Georgetown and you’d be considerably less in debt, if that’s all you wanted to.

Elie Mystal: Indeed.

Joe Patrice: You also wanted clerkships in that debt, frankly not that you get those from Georgetown obviously but –

Elie Mystal: Or Berkeley.

Joe Patrice: — Columbia helps a lot anyway. So, congratulations you have a lot of good options on leaning of this toward Georgetown depending on what your interests are.

Elie Mystal: With those options, what do we think LSATs or her LSAT score was, I mean that’s got to be —

Joe Patrice: I don’t know.

Elie Mystal: 174.

Joe Patrice: It must be pretty good.

Elie Mystal: I am going to peg it at 174.

Joe Patrice: All right.

Elie Mystal: Over under 174.

Joe Patrice: Okay. Michigan versus Virginia both full price, just a smooth decision-making on which is better.

Elie Mystal: Once again, those are wildly different climates.

Joe Patrice: Yeah I mean I don’t really care about that and both of them have the capacity to move into major markets from there, so I am not really concerned about that.

Elie Mystal: I am going to say Virginia.

Joe Patrice: I do too.

Elie Mystal: Mainly because Virginia has a really strong track record when it comes to clerkships.

Joe Patrice: Right.

Elie Mystal: Not that Michigan, not that you can’t get a clerkship going to Michigan, I think what’s the Republican that they were going to do before they did the attempted, the alleged attempted rapist.

Kethledge, Kethledge was a Michigan guy so it’s now like you can’t, it’s not like you can’t get a clerkship and become a Judge if you go to Michigan. Michigan is a great school. But UVA does I think somewhat consistently from our numbers just place better, just have a little extra if you’re going down that road.


If you are not going down that road, you are just gunning the regular kind of big law job or whatever road, they are both basically the same. The UVA with the little bit more excess to DC, Michigan with the little bit more excess to Chicago. So again, significantly different places that should motivate your decision, but just not a raw like what school is better, I am going to give Virginia just a slight edge.

Joe Patrice: Yeah. And a clerkship is one of the goals. I was teasing back that information. I think you hit it perfectly by just saying if that they have a slightly better record there, so there you go.

All right, here’s a lot. This is kind of an entertainment focus person Miami full price, but that’s that. Syracuse, $23,000 scholarship, Santa Clara $10,000 scholarship and Southwestern with an $80,000 scholarship.

Obviously, Southwestern has the rep for entertainment law. I would say and this goes back to old podcast we have done, don’t chase specialties in law schools. One, you don’t necessarily know if your time in law school will change your idea of what a good specialty is, but even if you do entertainment law jobs don’t go to people who express an interest in entertainment law, they go to the people who are really good contract lawyers who then apply for entertainment jobs. Go be the best lawyer possible, and this is advice we got from an entertainment lawyer who was a guest on this show in the early days. Go build a great transactional lawyer record and then try to get into entertainment, and for that, of this, I think it’s between Miami and Syracuse then.

Elie Mystal: 100% cosign on what you said and with entertainment law specifically it’s one of the dumber specialties to chase. Yes, because your reviews might change, yes because the jobs in entertainment law — it’s not like college, we are like, I major in archaeology and now I am getting an archaeology PH. That’s now how it works, right? Entertainment law is the dumbest thing to like as a 0L specialize in, because in addition to the — you actually need to build practice as a transaction attorney.

The other way people get entertainment law jobs is by knowing people in the entertainment industry, right. You got to know your potential clients. You got to be in Hollywood. You got to work for Netflix. You got to know that guy who knows that guy, you got to be the cousin of the show runner of the show. If you are that then it kind of doesn’t matter where you go to law school, if you are not that, wherever you go to law school is unlikely to help you very much, unless while you are in law school you are building those contacts, which is how I come back to Miami even though it’s at full price, because of the options that you have Miami is a city where people in the entertainment industry are around.

And if you network your ass off while you are in law school Miami can — you can find some people who know some people who know some people in Miami, much more so than you can in Syracuse, New York, right?

Joe Patrice: Right.

Elie Mystal: So that would be your argument for Miami, but because we are saying, going to law school specifically for a specialty practice and specially this specialty practice is kind of dumb, what was it, $23,000 in Syracuse?

Joe Patrice: Yeah. So that’s $23,000 scholarship.

Elie Mystal: Yeah, just a scholarship. I mean just take the money — take the money, go to Syracuse, take the money.

Joe Patrice: All right. So local to New York again. Brooklyn versus New York Law, $27,000 scholarship to Brooklyn, 40,000 to New York. I will be honest, I view that as pretty close to the difference between going to Brooklyn and New York. Like neither is particularly great but you can get, but they are pine 00:18:51 and you can get money for them, and I kind of view Brooklyn as about $13,000 better than New York. So I don’t know. I think Brooklyn, but even though it’s not, it’s going against the money, but I do think, yeah.

Elie Mystal: We’re looking at schools like that. I think it becomes even more important to decrease your cost as much as possible. You don’t know where you are going to end up in your class, you don’t know what kind of job opportunities you get, you’re going to want the maximum flexibility with those job opportunities and more money directly equals more flexibility when you graduate. So just on a straight dollar per dollar basis, I would say in NYLS

Joe Patrice: Yeah.

Elie Mystal: It is close though, I mean that’s —

Joe Patrice: Yeah.

Elie Mystal: Very close.

Joe Patrice: That was a thing. That was like if I — think about it from an econ perspective like you price out the differences and I was like ah there really about that much different was my whole, my whole thing.


Elie Mystal: Well, that’s a thing. I don’t think that while I agree with you about that analysis, does Brooklyn really guarantee you a better job than NYLS does?

Joe Patrice: Yeah.

Elie Mystal: And the answer is obviously not, right?

Joe Patrice: That’s fair.

Elie Mystal: So what does guarantee you more options is owing less money.

Joe Patrice: Yeah, yeah. So I wanted to throw this one in, because we already kind of talked about it, but one quick other one on here is Fordham versus Cardozo, Fordham $25,000 year scholarship, Cardozo $42,000 a year scholarship.

Elie Mystal: Yeah, I go the other — and this is where I go the other way, right, like, so this is where I go back to Fordham.

Joe Patrice: Okay.

Elie Mystal: Fordham has enough of a cachet, right it’s —

Joe Patrice: Yeah.

Elie Mystal: It’s Fordham with money versus Cardozo with a little bit more money. Again, assuming that you are going to — that you are trying to work for a law firm, Fordham is probably more helpful. If you are just want to be a solo practitioner, again, take the money and go to Cardozo, but assuming you want to like a work for people, Fordham probably there.

Joe Patrice: Yeah. Okay, this is an interesting one. A person culturally likes, yet has ties in Wisconsin, likes Wisconsin but does not necessarily know if they want to be there forever. Deciding between Wisconsin Full-Ride, Wake Forest at $6,000 a year, not $6,000 scholarship, they would be all in paying $6,000 a year.

Elie Mystal: So this is fun, right?

Joe Patrice: Yeah.

Elie Mystal: Do you use law school as your chance to see the world and try out new places and meet new people. Now normally I’d say no. Law school is a professional school, right. It’s like — it’s more like plumbing school than college. If you want to see the world you should take your study abroad here in Paris when you were a sophomore, now it’s time to get serious about what are you going do for your life and going to a law school just because it’s in a new place sounds dumb to me, right.

There are other things that you need to accomplish in law school besides like seeing the sights, and so for me, I would kind of — I would stay with what I knew and I would stay where I was comfortable, I would stay where I was kind of most able to focus on my studies.

Joe Patrice: Ironic is this person notes they do not like the cold, so even though they have been these connections there and have social connections, they don’t like the cold. You generally make law school decisions in this forum based solely on whether or not place is cold, so I find this interesting.

Elie Mystal: Yeah, it’s big against type for me.

Joe Patrice: Yeah.

Elie Mystal: But is it, because I went to the same law school that I went to college.

Joe Patrice: I suppose that’s true.

Elie Mystal: Mainly out of comfortability, even though that was my chance to get out the freezing ass, cold ass, racist ass Northeast.

Joe Patrice: Yeah.

Elie Mystal: — to go to Berkeley, I decided not to. I decided not to go to Berkeley as I just stayed where I was comfortable and focus on my studies. So that’s probably a little bit where I am coming up with the Wisconsin thing.

Joe Patrice: That’s fair.

Elie Mystal: On the other hand $6,000 is not lot of money for law school.

Joe Patrice: Yeah, you’d be 18 grand in the hole with a law degree.

Elie Mystal: Right like —

Joe Patrice: Like —

Elie Mystal: That’s not bad. If you’ve been — if you’ve spent enough time to Wisconsin to know that may not be for you, is it really going to get better in three years.

Joe Patrice: And let’s be fair Charlotte is becoming a real legal market.

Elie Mystal: And especially for —

Joe Patrice: All the Banks are there.

Elie Mystal: All the Banks are there. Wow, I think I just arguing myself into it.

Joe Patrice: Yeah, like no —

Elie Mystal: Yes —

Joe Patrice: Now here want me to complicate this a little bit more, here is one, so Wisconsin, you know what happens in Wisconsin though.

Elie Mystal: Cheese.

Joe Patrice: No, no, no, like an important fact about Wisconsin. If you get your degree from Wisconsin you’re in.

Elie Mystal: Oh that’s right, there is no bar. There is no bar in Wisconsin.

Joe Patrice: So you save yourself all of the bar stuff by just being a lawyer.

Elie Mystal: That’s right.

Joe Patrice: Now that means you kind of going in that you want to stay in Wisconsin, but if that’s a place you might want to —

Elie Mystal: It’s really weird, because the key line from the email is not sure he wants to live in Wisconsin for the whole life.

Joe Patrice: Yes, I know

Elie Mystal: Because like if you are sure you didn’t then by all means brother get out.

Joe Patrice: Yeah.

Elie Mystal: But if you may be could, then Wisconsin is the best place for you to be.

Joe Patrice: Yeah.

Elie Mystal: That’s tough.

Joe Patrice: That is tough one. I think I am leaning towards Wake just from the job market aspect of it, but oh, like you could be in Wisconsin, you might have to — I think you may have to still take at least the multi state part of the bar to go to Chicago market, but obviously that’s a good market. But it is still cold, and if like you don’t like that than Charlotte maybe the climb for you, fair enough.


Elie Mystal: Free, I mean $18,000 is not a lot, but it’s still enough.

Joe Patrice: Yeah, I know.

Elie Mystal: Free Wisconsin is free, ah.

Joe Patrice: Yeah.

Elie Mystal: I probably gun to head and stay in Wisconsin.

Joe Patrice: All right, yeah.

Elie Mystal: I’m boring.

Joe Patrice: All right, let’s stay in the South Alabama for $5,000 a year, Georgia for $6,000 a year, Virginia, Vanderbilt in Texas are waitlisted so the question is also kind of a do I hang on or do I jump at these deals?


Elie Mystal: Georgia and Alabama are fine and what it was Vanderbilt in Texas?

Joe Patrice: Yeah and Virginia UVA.

Elie Mystal: Yeah okay.

Joe Patrice: Well, those are great schools like if you really do feel like there’s an opportunity to get into any of those three, I think you might want to wait out and at least hear that offer. If there’s any way to hold Alabama and Georgia open at these rates for a bit do so, like take as much times you can to see if you get off this waitlist.

Elie Mystal: I disagree insofar as I don’t think that’s true for Vanderbilt in Texas. I don’t think Vanderbilt in Texas are so much better than Alabama or Georgia that should delay and then maybe you get it off the waitlist but it’s for full price than you go with the Texas for full price as opposed to Alabama with a lot of money.

Joe Patrice: I mean Texas has been in the Top 14.

Elie Mystal: Yeah it’s not a slam against Texas, it’s more of like understanding the delta between Texas and Georgia and Alabama, which Georgia especially I mean they kick shit in terms of placing people in Atlanta in the high paying legal jobs. So like Georgia is really good option. I don’t know that Delta — Georgia with money versus Texas at full price on off the waitlist whatever, I don’t know that bang is worth it.

UVA as we just kind of discussed that’s actually probably worth it, right. Like if you are getting into UVA you are putting yourself fundamentally out of a regional type of law school and into a national type of law school, and that is actually something worth waiting for. The UVA degree is the kind of degree that’s going to help you really no matter where you are in the country and no matter what you want to do with it down the road in a way that the Georgia degree is not or the Alabama degree not or quite frankly the Vanderbilt degree is not.

Joe Patrice: Oh I don’t know about that.

Elie Mystal: And the Texas is going to be great if you want to stay in Texas, Oklahoma.

Joe Patrice: No, I think all three of those latter two are, the waitlist ones have national ability. Obviously you have to be towards the upper end of the class, but I view those schools as having portability. Anyway, I say you’re fine no matter, I would hold out as long as possible, there’s no reason to jump at this like as much time they’re willing to give you take it. If you are up against the law don’t worry it’s okay to go to any of those.

Elie Mystal: As between Georgia and Alabama, Georgia? I am Georgia as between those two. Go dogs.

Joe Patrice: It’s real close. I think it’s probably Alabama but it’s real close. So anyway, but it’s real close in the —

Elie Mystal: Well that’s going to help you.

Joe Patrice: And the difference is Alabama is $1000 a year cheaper, so and that’s about the difference I think of between them is about a $3,000 difference. Alabama has historically been well regarded in the Southeast legal markets, but Florida and Georgia frankly have both made charges recently so maybe.

Elie Mystal: Yeah if you got in Florida, I would say go to Florida.

Joe Patrice: Well right, I think that’s probably the right answer but anyway.

Elie Mystal: Cool.

Joe Patrice: Well, we have done eight of these, so I think we have got a good little show here. So thanks everybody for listening. You should be subscribed to the show of course. You should be giving it reviews not just the stars, write something that way people know that you love it. If you have an Amazon Alexa talk constantly about how much you love Thinking Like a Lawyer because they’re recording everything. You should be reading Above the Law.

Elie Mystal: We are all going to die.

Joe Patrice: Yeah reading Above the Law. Following us on Twitter. I am @JosephPatrice, he is @ElieNYC. We thank for everything. You should check them out and listen to the other shows on the LTN network of shows. Also listen to The Jabot, which is our podcast that sometimes guest Kathryn Rubino does here, and with all that I think we are done.

Elie Mystal: It goes to a fast we’re just telling people what to do with their lives.

Joe Patrice: I know right, all right.

Elie Mystal: Cool.

Joe Patrice: Bye all.


Outro: If you would like more information about what you heard today, please visit You can also find us at,, iTunes, RSS, Twitter, and Facebook.

The views expressed by the participants of this program are their own and do not represent the views of, nor are they endorsed by Legal Talk Network, its officers, directors, employees, agents, representatives, shareholders, and subsidiaries. None of the content should be considered legal advice. As always, consult a lawyer.



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Episode Details
Published: April 30, 2019
Podcast: Thinking Like a Lawyer - Above the Law
Category: Law School
Thinking Like a Lawyer - Above the Law
Thinking Like a Lawyer - Above the Law

Above the Law's Elie Mystal and Joe Patrice examine everyday topics through the prism of a legal framework.

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