EP 704- Meet the Case Doctors

Episode Notes

Transcript

Announcer:

Welcome to The Jury is Out a podcast for trial attorneys who want to sharpen their skills and better serve their clients. Your co-hosts are John Simon, founder of the Simon Law Firm, Tim Cronin, personal injury trial attorney at the Simon Law Firm and St. Louis attorney Eric Vieth.

Christine Byers:

I am your host, Christine Byers of Simon Law, and I’m joined by the case doctors, John Simon and Alvin Wolff. Now, between them, they have more than 80 years of experience as plaintiff’s attorneys, so there really isn’t a scenario they haven’t already encountered on a case and figured out how to handle it. Now they’re offering you the chance to tell them about the various problems or issues that are coming up in your cases and here their diagnosis. But first, let’s turn to some of the civil cases, making headlines and hear what the case doctors have to say about them. This hot topic brings us over to South Carolina where a woman lodged a proposed class action lawsuit claiming a company called Foster Farms Corn dogs later recalled for potentially containing wood in the batter.

John Simon:

That doesn’t sound tasty.

Christine Byers:

No, she’s claiming. She’s claiming the recall isn’t a sufficient remedy for consumers who’ve already bought the food.

John Simon:

Did she eat it?

Christine Byers:

Yeah, she says she regularly buys the corn dogs as a healthy afternoon snack for herself and her family.

John Simon:

So she didn’t know there was wood in it until they told her.

Christine Byers:

Correct. The California company has recalled 3.8 million pounds of its chicken and Turkey corn dogs because their batter was potentially contaminated with wood bits. The defendant, according to the lawsuit, is aware that most consumers purchase products at multiple locations and do not maintain receipts for those consumable goods. And as such, most consumers cannot receive funds at the location of purchase. Furthermore, according to the lawsuit, many purchasers have already eaten the corn dogs and foster farms did not specifically target customers.

John Simon:

I hate when that happens. Wood and the corn dogs,

Christine Byers:

It’s rough.

John Simon:

Have you ever had a wood in the corn dog case? How

Alvin Wolff:

Would I know? No one’s ever come to me with that, but I did have a case where I can’t really talk about it even on YouTube with what this client did with the corn dog and they wanted to sue over it.

Christine Byers:

Oh dear.

Alvin Wolff:

Got an infection. We need to

John Simon:

Put this on a different platform. That’s all

Alvin Wolff:

I said. Listen, I don’t care if your kid was 12 and it happened at a slumber party, you should train your kid a little bit better about what to do with the corn. Dutch did that one have a wood in it?

Christine Byers:

Oh boy. We got to go. We’re going to.

John Simon:

It might have been a better outcome. Wait a minute. Is that a reasonably anticipated use? Misuse? Oh goodness. I’d like to take that corporate rep deposition.

Christine Byers:

Oh geez.

John Simon:

Let’s

Alvin Wolff:

Talk about a case that’s got some merit.

John Simon:

Well, it depends on what kind of wood it was and maybe the wood had some, I don’t know. I don’t know.

Alvin Wolff:

It’s like, come on. I can’t. I hear about a stupid class action suit every day. And I guess there’s people around that are just trying to come up with ideas that they think they’re going to make a lot of money on a class action where everybody gets 23 cents.

Christine Byers:

There you go. This hot topic brings us over to Washington, and this is an interesting one. I’m not sure if you’ve heard about it yet or not, but the Washington State Bar Association has launched a online portal for entities applying to practice law, and the announcement was that applications for businesses and nonprofits to provide legal services in Washington state is about to go live. And they’re calling this a major milestone in a state Supreme Court approved plan to expand who can practice law. It’s called the Entity Regulation Pilot project. The aim is to widen access to legal guidance about matters such as housing and medical expenses according to theBar association.

John Simon:

So this is being provided by people who aren’t licensed attorneys.

Christine Byers:

Correct.

John Simon:

I’ve got all kinds of problems with that.

Alvin Wolff:

I do too, but it doesn’t really sound a whole lot different than if a layman just goes to chat GBT and gives ’em a legal situation and they get a response and they move forward with it. There was a company I remember called we the people that was selling legal documentation. Right, I remember that. Where you could do your own will and you could do your own divorce and they were just selling you the platform to do it.

John Simon:

Yeah, I guess maybe you, maybe they’re giving the advice and then telling you it’s not worth a shit. I mean you could do that. I guess say it’s not real legal advice and there’s

Alvin Wolff:

A dentist I know who’s now moved into fat reduction. Where you going? A dentist. A dentist just

John Simon:

From all their teeth.

Alvin Wolff:

You can do that. No, slow down. But it’s like I said to this guy and it reminded me of some lawyer who he had an OB who was doing something not related to ob and it was like the first question he asked him in the deposition was, what does this have to do with being an obstetrician? So I asked this guy, what does this have to do with being a dentist? Because he advertises being a dentist, but then you can come in and do cool sculpting and lose your fat cells or whatever it is. And he says, well, it makes money.

John Simon:

Is it something they do in the room or the dental chair or exercises at home or

Alvin Wolff:

They got a room, you go in and they put the probes on you and they shrink your fat cells. I guess

Christine Byers:

CoolSculpting is like a device that they put on you.

John Simon:

It freezes

Christine Byers:

You. I

John Simon:

Guess you’ve got a captive audience. You got people already in the waiting room. No, the overhead is already there.

Christine Byers:

Lose weight while you wait.

John Simon:

I’m going to start a portal. Anybody, they got some internal bleeding or something, just give me a shot and I’ll give my best to tell you what I think. I mean, how is that different than somebody give me legal advice?

Alvin Wolff:

I think you do a pretty good job. You know enough medicine.

John Simon:

Well, I mean I still wouldn’t do it.

Alvin Wolff:

I agree, but I also think that would be a good opening for law schools to train law students how to be lawyers where you get some practical advice. So when we were at St. Louis U, I mean we had rule 13 where we could represent Yeah, super people,

John Simon:

But you were supervised.

Alvin Wolff:

Nobody

John Simon:

Supervised me, but you were supposed to be had somebody to go to with questions.

Christine Byers:

Thank you gentlemen. Time now to turn to our email inbox for the cases our viewers have sent in for the case doctors to diagnose. Now, just so everyone knows, we’re not going to reveal where these cases came from. We’re not going to name any names or firms to protect the confidentiality of the cases. Instead, the case doctors are going to focus on just the issue in each of them. So as they say, the case doctors will see you now. All right, doctors, our first letter today comes from the client who sued their own lawyer and won’t stop. This is a frustrated defense counsel over in Illinois. My client has sued five prior attorneys for malpractice and has already threatened to sue me before I’ve even filed an appearance. They record every conversation, send long manifestos about judicial corruption and refuse all settlement offers On principle. I know I can withdraw for cause, but the court has been slow to approve substitutions. How do you handle a client like this ethically and practically without compromising your sanity or the case?

Alvin Wolff:

Withdraw now you fire them, fire the client immediately. I had a guy last year threatens to sue me before I even had the medical records.

John Simon:

Yeah, once that happens, once you hear that it’s over, it’s over.

Alvin Wolff:

Get another lawyer and good luck.

John Simon:

Yep.

Christine Byers:

Non-starter.

John Simon:

It’s a deal killer. I mean, you should be hesitant to represent somebody for a whole lot less than that, just not if you can’t really trust them. I can’t represent somebody that I don’t trust and doesn’t trust me. I mean here you have somebody that’s out and out threatening to sue you before you even entered your appearance.

Alvin Wolff:

Five prior lawyers mean that’s a red

John Simon:

Flag. Would run to begin with, would run from that. I would run from that. How many cases have you taken at one or better yet, how many cases have you taken where two lawyers before they came to you were

Alvin Wolff:

Terminated? The one I settled yesterday, there were two lawyers on it before, is that right? But one guy lost his license and one

John Simon:

Person

Alvin Wolff:

Didn’t have the competency.

John Simon:

Well, I’m saying that the client terminated them where

Alvin Wolff:

The client terminated. No, I don’t do

John Simon:

That when somebody’s on their, if I’m looking at a potential case and somebody’s already looked at it, what I’ll do is I’ll figure out who that is and give ’em a call. Or if it’s somebody that I know is competent, I’ll take that into, that’s very telling. But when somebody comes in and they’ve been to a lawyer and they’ve terminated that lawyer, I run from that.

Alvin Wolff:

Yeah. This is a hard enough job that you don’t need to invite controversy or problem clients. I mean representing good clients is a pleasure representing bad clients. I don’t do that anymore. If they’re rude to my staff, that is a deal killer as far as I’m

John Simon:

Concerned. Yeah, I avoid it at all costs. You got to like your client.

Christine Byers:

Are you guys able to ask potential new clients, Hey, have you been into any other attorneys before coming to me and what was the result? Are you able to

John Simon:

Ask every one of ’em? Every one? Absolutely. That’s a standard question we ask is have you been to prior an attorney previously? And then you want to know, yeah, what happened? And part of it too is I’ve had cases where somebody else looked at it, didn’t take it, but it was a decent case and we took it and did okay, did a good job and got a good result for the client. I am certain the same thing has happened. I’m absolutely certain I have turned down cases and that other lawyers have picked up and gotten a good result

Alvin Wolff:

That you’ve sent to Alvin Wolff. I mean I make a living on what

John Simon:

You guys leave on the floor. So hey, here’s the thing I always tell everybody, I’ve never told anybody you don’t have a case. I always say go get a second opinion. Right?

Alvin Wolff:

Absolutely.

John Simon:

Go ask somebody else. They might see something that we don’t see, but boy, somebody that’s so easy because you got somebody who’s been, what’d you say? Three prior lawyers? Five. Five. He fired five. But see, that’s a defense lawyer, and I guess I want to say this the right way, but if it’s a one-time client, it’s a little bit easier than maybe it’s a big company that could give ’em a lot of bill. I don’t know. I have no idea. But that’s going to end poorly.

Alvin Wolff:

They say they’ve had a prior lawyer. I always call the other lawyer and say, well, what was the problem?

John Simon:

And I’ve had that happen before where that exactly is what happened because I got somebody that was an out-of-state case, and I won’t go into the details or the specifics, but it was a really case that on the surface appeared to be fairly significant and right away I went online and saw that four or five attorneys had withdrawn and he was calling without any attorney of record and I was like, ain’t happening. Good luck and so long. So back to the corn dog case.

Christine Byers:

Oh god,

John Simon:

What do you want to know about it?

Christine Byers:

Oh my gosh,

Alvin Wolff:

I thought that was very impactful. You’re going to go home tonight thinking about it. Don’t try anything funny.

Christine Byers:

Okay.

John Simon:

Very impactful.

Christine Byers:

I’m a trial lawyer in Florida and he’s titling it, the jury that Googled everything. Midway through a personal injury trial, a juror posted on Reddit asking whether certain medical photos were real opposing counsel found the post and now the judge is furious. The juror swears they never discussed the case and just asked a hypothetical, is this grounds for mistrial or can we rehabilitate if the verdict stands? And how do you prevent jurors from doing this in the age of smartphones without alienating them?

John Simon:

Well, it’s a mistrial and what you do is the judge tells the jurors not to do any independent research. And the judge in the last case I was in said that about three or four times and I’m absolutely convinced people, some people on the jury ignore that and do it anyway. That’s how,

Alvin Wolff:

Yeah, I mean there’s an instruction that they can’t do it. It’s in writing. It’s one of the first instructions you read. I think it might be 2 0 1, but they do it. We know they do it. And I mean there’s really nothing you can do about it unless they admit to it and they get caught.

John Simon:

And the other thing too that you need to be aware of is jurors not only research the issues, they research your client possibly they look at your website and my website, they look at that. I don’t know what you do other than the judge that we were in front of and it was in St. Louis County, my office. I wasn’t involved in that case, but that case was retried a second time because that happened. And then I was in front of the same judge with a different case and I mean he said it three or four times and said, look, we just had, it was a three week trial product liability had to retry it because somebody did some research on, I think it was like roof crush ratings or something on the vehicle. And after two weeks they got a mistrial and had to retry the case.

Alvin Wolff:

One thing I saw last week on our email listserv lawyers trying a case for two weeks and it’s a death case, a malpractice case, and the judge tells the jury this a serious case and the doctor’s reputations are at stake. That’s improper right off the bat.

John Simon:

That’s improper.

Alvin Wolff:

That’s I, and the lawyer moved for a mistrial, didn’t get it. I mean because that’s going beyond the

John Simon:

Instructions. No, it is. You can’t bring evidence into the Courtroom yourself. You got to listen. You got to decide the case on what comes from the witness stand and if not, it just doesn’t work. It was something that we didn’t worry as much about 25 years ago, 30 years ago. But now, man, everybody’s got their phones going and they’re looking stuff up. The thing we’d worry about, I had an automotive product case years ago, it was like 25 years ago, and the day before, close a full page article in the local newspaper about how safe the Ford cars, I mean it was crazy. It was taken out by some dealer outstate somewhere and it’s in the St. Louis post dispatch. I mean, those kind of things are a little more obvious, but when somebody can access it with their phone, who knows and who knows if it’s even accurate what they’re looking at. Right.

Alvin Wolff:

No idea. Especially with ai, and you can have these fake generated images and movies and everything. It’s a tough world to deal in right now.

Christine Byers:

Alvin, what’s your prognosis for this case? Is it a mistrial or can they rehabilitate if the verdict stands?

Alvin Wolff:

Well, if there’s 13 or 14 jurors, and if that juror did not discuss it with anybody and he brings it to the court’s attention, the court could dismiss that jury and see an alternate juror is one of the jurors, and then you can go forward. Otherwise, if he talks about it with everybody, then it’s a mistrial. It’s like your kid, you tell ’em don’t do something, they do it anyway. Absolutely.

Christine Byers:

Okay, gentlemen, that will do it for this episode of the Case Doctors. If you have a case that you would like the case doctors to dissect, send us an email at [email protected], and here’s a QR code that will take you directly to our contact page.

Announcer:

The Jury is Out, is brought to you by the Simon Law Firm at the Simon Law Firm pc. We believe in the power of pooling resources in order to create powerful results. We often lend our trial skills and experience to lawyers around the country to achieve better results for their clients. Our attorneys welcome the opportunity to work with you on your case offering vast resources, seasoned litigators, and a sterling reputation. You can contact us at 2 4 1 2 9 2 9 and if you enjoyed the podcast, feel free to share your thoughts with John, Tim and Eric at comments at The Jury is Out law and subscribe today because the best lawyers never stop learning.

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