Managing Menopause for Women in Law — Reclaiming Confidence in Your Career

Episode Notes

Transcript

Molly Ranns:

Hello and welcome to another edition of the State Bar of Michigan’s On Balance Podcast on Legal Talk Network. I’m Molly Ranns.

JoAnn Hathaway:

And I’m JoAnn Hathaway. We are very pleased to have Mary Pate join us today. Mary is an integrative nutrition health coach. After spending 33 years practicing law in both Alaska and Michigan, Mary took a major pivot, left the practice of law, and now coaches busy professional women, especially attorneys with how to manage disruptive menopause symptoms so they can reclaim their energy, confidence, and focus without sacrificing their careers or their personal lives. And with that, Mary, could you share some more information about yourself with our listeners?

Mary Pate:

Sure, I’d be happy to. So as you indicated, I practiced law for 33 years. I worked in private practice in both Alaska and Michigan for about 23 years, and then we moved back to Alaska from Michigan. Although I briefly worked in private practice, I ended up working for two large native corporations in Alaska for the last 10 years of my legal career. And during that time was when I was really fully in menopause and I started to realize that I was really struggling with some things I hadn’t struggled with in my legal career previously. My memory was just not as good as it had been. My energy seemed to be waning. I couldn’t focus and handle stress the same way as I had been, and I was gaining weight in ways that I hadn’t before. And it was really concerning to me. I’d had a really, what I considered to be a really good career.

Things were clicking along really well. And now I had these, I wouldn’t really call them medical issues, they were just symptoms that caused me distress. And I started thinking, do I have adult onset A DHD? Do I have chronic fatigue syndrome? Do I have a tumor in my belly? Is that why I’m gaining weight? And so it was really concerning to me and I started looking at what might be going on because I really wasn’t getting a lot of answers from my physicians. And prior to this time in 2016, I had taken a health coaching course with the Dr. Sears Wellness Institute and I started dabbling in health coaching a little bit, mostly focused on just getting good nutrition and how to take care of yourself. But during the pandemic in 2020, I decided I was going to take a more intensive health coaching course. It was with the Institute for Integrative Nutrition, a year long health coaching course.

And during that time, I really fell in love even more with health coaching and I really wanted to tackle my own menopause symptoms and help other women who were dealing with the same things, especially busy professional women like attorneys who not only were dealing with a really busy, hectic career, but also were dealing with some of these symptoms. So that’s what I did. I went to the Institute for Integrative Nutrition, got my certification as an integrative nutrition health coach. I started doing some health coaching and at the same time I was diagnosed with an autoimmune disease, Hashimoto’s thyroiditis. And I learned that 80% of those who have autoimmune diseases are women and women are most often diagnosed with autoimmune diseases while they’re in menopause. And this was even more concerning to me. I thought, my goodness, we have these women who are dealing with all of these struggles with menopause.

And then to add on top of that, dealing with autoimmune issues. And so I continued to research. I continued to learn. I became certified as a menopause health coach specialist. I became certified as a hormone specialist. And then most recently I became certified as a fast, like a girl certified coach. And I started practicing fasting, realized that that was really helpful for weight loss. I was able to lose 25 pounds and keep it off, and it really helped me deal with a lot of the symptoms that I was dealing with. So that takes us up to present day. I’m continuing to work with clients. I’m also working with a functional medicine physician in Atlanta and helping them do some group coaching courses. So that’s sort of where I am really helping women in menopause, mostly dealing with those symptoms and how to just feel like themselves again.

Molly Ranns:

That sounds wonderful, Mary, and I’m so grateful for you being here today and sharing this information. I turned 40 in just a few months, and there are all these things that all of a sudden I’m supposed to be doing, getting a mammogram and getting blood work and doing all of these things. And women don’t talk about that. I think all of a sudden these things are in front of us and it’s so nice to have these open conversations and know that we’re all dealing with these same issues. You talked a little bit about your legal career and how menopause impacted you. Could you expand upon that a little bit for maybe the women lawyers and the male attorneys listening just to understand how that career was impacted by your symptoms, and then if there was anything really specific that prompted you to pivot to health coaching?

Mary Pate:

As busy attorneys, I’m not telling anybody that might be listening to this podcast, anything they don’t already know, but there’s a lot that’s going on. When you’re a busy attorney, you’re dealing with billable hour expectation, maybe a busy travel schedule. I was traveling a lot when I was working in-house for a couple of big native corporations in Alaska. I had a very busy travel schedule, and you might have a busy court schedule or client expectations, and as you work your way up the ladder, as I did when I was working in-house, you have a lot of administrative responsibilities on top of that, maybe running the law firm, being the managing partner, dealing with your corporate practice, whatever that is. So there’s all of that on top of now dealing with chronic fatigue, brain fog, difficulty concentrating, difficulty sleeping, weight gain, and the discomforts that might come along with that.

And it really does become incredibly overwhelming. And I was finding that to be the case the last few years of my practice. It was just a lot. And I was the general counsel for one of the native corporations in Alaska, and it was extremely busy. It was very stressful. There was a very busy travel schedule, and I found myself really frustrated with my own health. Like I said, I was diagnosed with an autoimmune and I had these other symptoms and I just thought, this isn’t the way I want to live my life and I want to be able to focus on my health. And more importantly, maybe not more importantly, but at the same time, I wanted to be able to help other women who were struggling because as I said, it’s very hard to find a physician that really understands menopause and the effects of menopause and how to deal with the symptoms of menopause.

Unfortunately, even gynecologists aren’t trained unless they specifically go to get the training themselves. They aren’t trained in menopause, they aren’t trained in hormone replacement therapy. They’re not trained in how to deal with the struggles and the symptoms of menopause. And so it’s hard to find help. It’s hard to find people to answer those questions. And so I just decided it was a good time. There were a lot of things going on. There were company changes in the corporation that I was working for, and I decided that that was a good time for me to make a pivot. As I said, I had gone to the Institute for Integrative Nutrition. I really felt like I was equipped to start helping women who were dealing with the same struggles that I was dealing with because it was just hard to find people who could help and who could answer questions. So I felt like that was a good time for me to do that.

JoAnn Hathaway:

Maria, you just touched upon, it’s no secret that the legal profession can be incredibly demanding. So based on your experience, what do you think are the biggest challenges female attorneys face when trying to balance their careers with these menopause symptoms?

Mary Pate:

It’s just a subject that’s not talked about in the workplace. Very often we talk about other workplace concerns, but we don’t talk a lot about menopause and how that might be impacting women in the workplace. And so some of the things that I think we need to be talking about more is what changes can we make in the workplace that will help accommodate not only women who are dealing with menopause symptoms, but men too who might be dealing with some medical conditions that they’re struggling with as they get older in life. It’s not uncommon for all of us to be struggling with medical issues. And when you put that on top of a really busy stressful career, it can just be a lot to deal with. And there are statistics that show particularly with women, but also with men, that you get to the point where it’s just not worth it.

Your health is suffering and people are leaving, I think, in higher numbers than people anticipated and trying to figure out how can we buffer that and try to get people the accommodations that they need and try to make some changes that would be helpful to keep people in the legal practice. Because at that point, you have people who have been in their careers for a number of years. I mean, I was at about 25 years or so when I really felt that I was struggling somewhat and you are going to lose people who really have some value for the company. So I think there are a number of things that the legal profession should really, not only the legal profession, but because we’re focused on that, any sort of workplace that has a really stressful environment, I think it’s really helpful to start thinking about, particularly as we’re getting more and more research that shows the damage that a stressful career or stressful life can have on someone’s health.

So start thinking about things like having more conversations about what are the struggles people are having with their health in the workplace, and then particularly with legal firms and corporate legal practices, maybe adding some mental health PTO days that people are available to use rather than just sick days. So people don’t have to make up some reason that they don’t want to come to work, that they really need a mental health day to deal with some issues, or maybe having more flexible work schedules so people can work from home a couple of days when things are just getting a little bit too stressful and it might be quieter and calmer and easier to get some work done at home, or maybe working on some more compressed work weeks, maybe working four tens instead of nine to five each day. Doing some things like that where people feel like they have an opportunity to kind of reduce the stress, they can change their schedule a bit.

Maybe creating days where you’re not going to have any meetings at work where you can just sit in your office, close the door or work from home, close the door and have a day where you can actually put your head down, get some work done. Because one of the things that I think is really stressful about the legal career is it’s very difficult to meet all the demands. There’s always something and it’s just constant. What’s the next thing? What’s the next thing? What’s the next thing? What’s the next meeting? And it’s hard to find time to really sit down and focus on your work. Having that change in the environment to be able to meet some of those stressful situations, I think would really help reduce some of the stress of the workplace that would help deal with some of the menopause or other health related symptoms that people might be dealing with.

Molly Ranns:

I think that’s excellent advice. Mary. I know one of the things I started doing recently is protecting my time on my calendar. I would look at my calendar and I’d realize that I don’t even show up in my calendar. It’s just for everyone else. And I even have a shared calendar for my family. Everyone has a color. It’s color coordinated. And I remember the shock of realizing I didn’t have a color, I wasn’t even existing there. And I do want to hear more about ways that firms or other legal organizations can better support women. But prior to talking about that systemic approach, can you help our listeners understand what lifestyle habits women can make individually to manage some of the challenges you just mentioned?

Mary Pate:

Sure, absolutely. And I think that that’s probably even the first place that women need to start because it’s a long game conversation to be able to turn that big ship, right? The environment in the legal practice has been what it has been for many, many years. And so changing that isn’t impossible, but it’s certainly something that’s not going to happen overnight. So I think women do need to really first focus on some lifestyle changes that would be really helpful to just addressing some of those symptoms they might be experiencing. And so I would say the first one really is stress management. I think that often it’s kind of a badge of honor. I hate to say it that way, but we, particularly as women, because we want to be able to show we’re just as tough as the men are. We work really, really hard.

And unfortunately that’s to the detriment of our health sometimes. So I think really focusing on how we can manage that stress so that it’s not going to affect our health so much. So doing things like making sure you prioritize exercise. I can’t say how important exercise can be in really helping manage your stress, even if it’s just taking a daily walk, maybe taking your lunch break outside. If you can walk around the building, walk around the block, do something to get some fresh air, take some really deep breaths and get some exercise. Or if you have some time in the morning and you can get to the gym and exercise in the morning before work, that’s a great way to manage stress. Or doing things like meditation or tapping. If people are familiar with tapping, that’s another kind of, meditation is a great way to manage stress or doing some breath work.

And breath work is something that people can do not only on their own at home while they’re getting ready for work or while they’re sort of decompressing after work. But breath work is something that’s easy to do while you’re at work. So sitting in your office or even sitting at a meeting, just taking some really deep breaths, really concentrating on counting to four, I call it box breathing, breathing in for four counts, holding it for four counts, breathing out for four counts, and you can do that while you’re in a meeting or just sitting in your office. So those things really can kind of help deescalate the cortisol that’s accumulating and coming up as we’re stressed and really help us be able to focus more. And then it’s really looking at your diet. Unfortunately, we all know that if we don’t eat well, we don’t feel well.

But unfortunately when we’re really busy and we’re really stressed, it’s hard to focus on one more thing. And I hear that from women a lot. I’m so busy, I’ve got my job, I’ve got the kids, I’ve got this, I’ve got that. And I’ve just can’t focus on planning my meals and I understand that. But I also understand that eating well is going to make people feel well. And so I really encourage people try to find little places in your schedule where you can meal plan and do some meal prep. I call it the secret sauce because I really think that meal planning and meal prepping is the key to making sure that you’re eating well during the week. So maybe sitting down on Friday night while you’re watching a movie and planning what you’re going to eat for the week and then putting in your Instacart order or planning to go to the store first thing Saturday morning because you’re going to go to the store, you’re going to get groceries anyway, so why not make sure that you’re getting groceries that are going to be good for the meals that you’ve planned for the week.

And then it really only takes a couple of hours. I know that seems like a lot, but if you can take a couple of hours on a Sunday to do some meal prep, you could have some breakfast that you can grab and go ready to go. You could have your lunch ready to grab and go, I make salads in a jar. I had those all ready to go. I would make overnight oats in a jar or chia pudding in a jar, things that you can grab out of the fridge as you’re walking out the door. And then even doing some prep for some of the things you’re going to make for your dinners during the week. It’s huge time saver, and you’re going to have healthy meals already made and ready to go. And then finally, I would say of the top three areas I would prioritize, I would say sleep.

It’s really easy, particularly after a busy day to want to just sit and binge on Netflix or scroll on social media or any of those things. And all of a sudden you realize it’s midnight and you probably should have gone to bed a couple of hours earlier. So I really encourage people to stop binge watching, stop scrolling on social media. Set a time that you’re going to go to bed consistently. Most nights, stop all your screen time an hour or two before you go to bed and kind of have a bedtime ritual. Maybe you take a warm bath, maybe you drink some sleepy time tea or something that’s going to tell your body it’s time for us to kind of wind down and be ready for bed. And then sleep is going to be easier and you’re going to sleep better and feel more rested in the morning. So those are my top three that I really encourage women to prioritize when they’re dealing with a stressful job and also with menopause symptoms that are making things even more difficult.

JoAnn Hathaway:

So Mary, in your opinion, what are some ways that firms or legal organizations can better support women going through menopause? And on the flip side too, how can women advocate for changes themselves that might make a real difference?

Mary Pate:

Yeah, I mean, I recognize, like I say, that I think this is a long game. I think this is a turning of the ship, if you will, to try to change some of the ways that we, and it’s not just law firms, but that’s what we’re all familiar with and have been for a long time. But it’s just really changing the way we look at how people work and also having the conversations. I mean, I think one of the things that, it’s a little bit scary, but those of us in menopause have been in our careers for a long time. So it’s a little bit easier when you’ve been in your practice for a while to talk to HR or talk to whoever the committee might be in your law firm to say, Hey, we really need to be looking at focusing some on how we can accommodate women who are dealing with or struggling with menopause.

And because as I indicated, these are women who have been in their legal careers usually for a number of years, probably 20 to 30 years by the time they’re experiencing menopause symptoms. So those aren’t people that you want to lose from your practice. Those are people who have good value. And so trying to really think about how you can adapt the environment to help them manage those menopause symptoms is going to go a long way. And so it’s thinking about those things that I mentioned early, like can we change the number of days you could maybe work from home? Can we change to having days where we don’t have any meetings where we can just close the door and breathe and get some work done? Could we have a compressed work week? I mean, thinking outside the box of things that are going to help people have a less stressful work environment. Even something like, I hate to say it, I’ll probably get blow back, but maybe we need to think about reducing the billable hour requirement. Some billable hour requirements are so incredibly difficult to meet, particularly if you have any sort of non-billable sorts of things in your work as well. It makes it very stressful on top of the other things that you have to deal with in your work. So it’s really just, I think, thinking outside the box of some ways that we can just make our work environment less stressful and more manageable.

Molly Ranns:

We are now going to take a short break from our conversation with Mary Pate to thank our sponsors.

JoAnn Hathaway:

Welcome back. We are thrilled to be here today with Mary Pate decades long practicing attorney now integrative nutrition health coach as we explore the importance of physical and mental health for the woman lawyer. Mary hormone replacement therapy seems to be a topic that’s always filled with mixed messages, and many women aren’t really sure if it’s right for them and they’re basically confused. So for those who are hesitant or looking for alternatives, what are some natural strategies that can compliment or even replace HRT for symptom relief?

Mary Pate:

That’s a really great question, and I agree that it’s one of those conversations that comes with mixed emotions. But I want to say before I talk about some natural strategies that I think that having that conversation with your physician about hormone replacement therapy is really important early on in your menopause life, if you will. Because if I had known what I know now about hormone replacement therapy, I would’ve been far more interested in my early fifties in potentially taking hormone replacement therapy because of the additional benefits that it provides. According to the North American Menopause Society for Healthy, I should say, who are younger than 60, and within the first 10 years of menopause onset, the benefits of hormone replacement therapy actually outweigh the risks, and that’s not something that has been advocated for many years previously. I mean, I remember when my mother was in menopause and she was taking hormone replacement therapy.

There was of course always the risk of cancer and those sorts of things that people were worried about. So when I first came into menopause, I was not at all interested in hormone replacement therapy. I thought I will just suffer through if I have to because it just seems like the risks were not worth it. But now they’re finding they have so many different options for hormone replacement therapy. It’s not a one size fits all. But more importantly, if you’re in that first 10 year window and you’re under 60, the benefits are really significant. We all know that heart disease is the number one killer of women, and for women who are taking hormone replacement therapy and are also making nutrition and lifestyle changes, they can significantly reduce their cardiovascular risk, which is huge. Hormone replacement therapy can also significantly help with hot flashes, night sweats, heart palpitations, sleep disturbances.

So all of those things that women deal with menopause can be significantly reduced. But also most women don’t realize that hormone replacement therapy can also help with weakening bones and osteoporosis. That can be significantly reduced. So for women who have been diagnosed with osteopenia and are concerned with osteoporosis, HRT might be something they really do want to consider. And then also things like progesterone deficiency and the associated health impacts from that can be reduced with HRT as well as things like urinary incontinence, vaginal dryness, HRT helps all of those things. So I really encourage women to not just bank on what they read on social media or what they’ve heard from their mothers or grandmothers, really talk to a physician who knows what they’re talking about, who’s been trained in hormone replacement therapy and can give them all of the really good information to help them make that decision.

But then back to your question, if they do decide it’s still not for me, it’s not something I’m interested in, then I think it really does go back to just those lifestyle factors that I talked about previously, really focusing on how to reduce stress in their lives, how to make sure they’re eating the foods that are really going to be helpful for their hormones and making sure they’re balancing their hormones as much as possible, focusing on sleep, and then also considering something like fasting. There is a lot that you can do with fasting that can really help your hormones. When I became certified as a fast like a girl coach, one of the things that the fast like a girl really means scheduling your fasting in accordance with your cycle. So for women who are still cycling, you can manage your fasting so that it coincides with where you are in your cycle and also managing the food that you eat in accordance with where you are in your cycle.

So for instance, if you’re in your cycle where your progesterone is low, you’re going to want to eat more carbohydrates. If you’re in your cycle where your estrogen is low, you’re going to want to eat more proteins. So really focusing on those sorts of things, knowing what things are going to help for where you are in your cycle, or if you’re not cycling, if you’re completely done with your menstrual cycle, then really focusing on the foods that are going to help balance the hormones that are already on the decline, and helping to manage those as much as possible is going to help you address the symptoms that you might be having.

Molly Ranns:

Mary, I’m so glad you brought up fasting because that’s what I wanted to ask you about next. You talked a little bit about how fasting could help manage menopause symptoms. Can you talk about a good way for women to get started with fasting who maybe haven’t heard of it before or don’t really know what they’re doing as they get started?

Mary Pate:

Sure, absolutely. I really like fasting because I have found in all of the research that I’ve done is that it’s not just about helping women lose weight. That’s what I assumed fasting was all about when I first started to hear about intermittent fasting, that it was just a way to lose weight, and it certainly is. It’s definitely helpful for that. I mean, they have found that if you just narrow your eating window to a shorter timeframe, you don’t even necessarily have to change, although you should, but you don’t even necessarily have to change the things that you’re eating, and it is going to help you lose weight just to narrow that eating window. But then when you also change how you’re eating, what you’re eating during that eating window, it can be a really easy way to lose weight. But the other things that are so important about fasting are that you can have some significant health benefits in addition to weight loss, depending on what kind of fasting that you do.

For instance, there’s something called when you do a 17 hour or longer fast, your body goes into something called autophagy. And basically what autophagy is, it’s kind of your body’s recycling system, if you will. It goes in and your body starts looking for cells that need to be broken down and gotten rid of because they’re damaged, or maybe they’re infected in some way. And so this autophagy system cleans out those old cells and makes room for new cells. It’s really an amazing thing that your body does. Our bodies are amazing healers if we just give them the opportunity to heal. And when we don’t eat for longer periods of time, it gives our bodies time to rest and time to heal. So if people are interested in intermittent fasting, I of course would love to talk to them and help them through that process. But they can just start with shortening their eating window.

So if currently you eat from the minute you get up to the minute you go to bed, whatever number of hours that might be, let’s say that you’re awake for 16 hours, so maybe you want to wait for a couple hours after you get up in the morning and stop eating a couple of hours before you go to bed, shorten that eating window, and then when you’re feeling good doing that, shorten it again by an hour on each end until you’re down to about an eight hour eating window so that you might be awake for 16 hours, but your eating window is only eight of those 16 hours. So just shortening that window a little bit at a time. And then really focusing on in that eating window, making sure that you’re eating really healthy, nutritious foods and not some of the other things that you might eat throughout the day, but really focusing because your eating window is shorter, making sure that you’re getting really nutritious foods during that eating window. That would be the best way to get started, is those two things.

JoAnn Hathaway:

That’s great information. Mary, if some men are listening and have women in their lives who are facing those struggles of menopause, how can they help?

Mary Pate:

I think the best way for men to be able to help is really to be understanding and recognizing that the women in their lives are really going through some health challenges. It’s not in their head, they’re not making it up, and really maybe ask her what she needs help with, what she specifically is struggling with and how they can help. I think that sometimes men don’t really realize that these are symptoms of menopause, that the women aren’t. It’s not just in their head. It’s not just they’re stressed at work, but it’s something that they’re dealing with and asking them, what can I do? Can we keep the bedroom cooler at night? Are there some foods that we should be eating that we’re not? What specifically can I help you with? I think is going to be the biggest help for most women, because just letting them feel like they’re being heard and that it’s not all in their head, they’re not going crazy, and being able to express that to the men who care about them, I think is going to be the biggest way that the men can help. Just being interested in asking the questions and maybe making some accommodations around the house where they can help. Maybe it means jumping in and doing some more chores around the house periodically, or maybe it means making some dinner on some nights in the week to help them if they’re stressed at work and want to be eating healthy but don’t have the time to make dinner tonight, maybe their husband can jump in and help. Things like that. Just asking where they can help, I think would be the biggest help for most women.

Molly Ranns:

Mary, as a therapist, I’m always recommending therapy for individuals who are looking for help in navigating life’s difficulties, and I’m hoping that you can talk a little bit about why you recommend health coaching for women who are looking for help navigating menopause and why working with a health coach differs from just trying to figure it out on their own, which is what I think a lot of people try to do initially.

Mary Pate:

Yeah, I think that most of us, we’re all smart women and we think I’m having these symptoms, or I’m having these struggles. I’m just going to read a book. I’ll figure it out on my own, or I’ll talk to my girlfriend or whatever it might be, and I’m just going to figure this out on my own, or I’m going to power through, or whatever the case might be. But the thing about having a health coach, I tell my clients, I am three things for you. I’m accountability. I’m your cheerleader. And what I call, I’m synopsis, and I’ll explain what I mean by that. But first of all, we all know that if we have someone holding us accountable, we are more likely to do the things that we have told ourselves we want to do. If you have someone waiting for you at the gym in the morning, you’re more likely to get yourself out of bed, get your clothes on and get to the gym.

If somebody’s not waiting for you at the gym and the alarm goes off, you’re more likely to hit the SNOO button and go back to sleep. So having somebody who is your accountability partner is really important for helping people stick with their health goals. So I provide that. I check in on them, I see how they’re doing, and I don’t tell my clients what they should do. I tell them what I think would be helpful, and then they tell me what they are willing to do, what things they can do in their schedule, what things they are willing and want to do, and then I hold them accountable for those things. And then I’m their cheerleader. Everybody needs a cheerleader, someone who’s going to be excited for you when things go good, someone is going to clap for you when you lose a couple pounds, someone who’s going to keep cheering you on, but also someone who’s going to pick you up when maybe you screwed up.

Maybe you ate two pieces of cake last night and you feel terrible today, or you had a couple glasses of wine and wish you hadn’t, and you feel terrible today. But picking you up and saying, Hey, it’s okay. It’s not about perfection. It’s about progress. Let’s keep going. And then the third thing that I think is particularly helpful for people who are extremely busy, which I think is all women in our society today, but is really kind of being the synopsis for them. And what I mean by that is I spend a lot of time reading. I spend a lot of time researching. I try to keep as up to date as possible on what the latest thing is in nutrition and hormone therapy and menopause, so my clients don’t have to. So when I meet with my clients, I can say, well, if it’s appropriate for whatever we’re talking about, here’s the latest research on this.

Here’s what the experts are saying on that. Here’s some things that they’re finding are really helpful for whatever this issue is. For example, I’ve recently found out that basil seeds are a great way to get fiber. I’d never even heard about basil seeds before. You can add them to yogurt, you can add them to oatmeal. They have 15 grams of fiber and two tablespoons of basil seeds. Most people don’t know that. So I spend a lot of time researching those things and really trying to accumulate as much information as I can so that when women have questions, I can help them quickly find the answers. I can read the books and say, Hey, here’s this great book I read. Here’s the synopsis of what it was about. So people that don’t have time to do those things can come to me and say, here’s the struggles I’m having.

I can give them as best I can, the most UpToDate information, and if they have questions I can’t answer, I have the time to go find it, because that’s what I do as a health coach where they can go on with their career and I’ll get back to them and hopefully be able to answer their question for them. So I think that’s why it’s important to have a health coach. I know that sometimes people think, oh, I don’t have the time, or I don’t have the money. You might be surprised how helpful that is in your life and how it’s probably the best money and time that you’ve spent to be able to have somebody that really helps you focus on one of the most important things in your life, and that’s your health. If you don’t have your health, you’re not able to do any of the other things that you want to be able to do in your life. So being able to have someone help you with that, I think is incredibly important.

JoAnn Hathaway:

This has been so helpful and wonderful information, Mary. However, it does seem as though we have come to the end of our show. We would like to thank our guest today, Mary Pate, for a wonderful program.

Mary Pate:

Thank you so much. Thank you for having me.

Molly Ranns:

Thank you so much. And if folks would like to follow up with you personally, Mary, what is the best way to reach you

Mary Pate:

So they can email me. My email is [email protected], or they can go right to my website, which is mustard seed health.com. There’s lots of information there. You can sign up for my newsletter and to get notification when I post blogs and that information also to sign up for that is on my website. Again, it’s mustard seed-health.com or my email is [email protected].

Molly Ranns:

This has been absolutely wonderful. Thank you again, Mary.

Mary Pate:

Thank you so much for having me. I really appreciate it.

Molly Ranns:

This has been another edition of the State Bar of Michigan On Balance Podcast. I’m JoAnn Hathaway. And I’m Molly Ranns. Until next time, thank you for listening.

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Thank you for listening to the State Bar of Michigan On Balance Podcast, brought to you by the State Bar of Michigan, and produced by the broadcast professionals at Legal Talk Network. If you’d like more information about today’s show, please visit legal talk network.com. Subscribe via Apple Podcasts and RSS, find the State Bar of Michigan and Legal Talk Network on Twitter, Facebook, and LinkedIn, or download Legal Talk Network’s, free app in Google Play and iTunes. The views expressed by the participants of this program are their own and do not represent the views of, nor are they endorsed by Talk Network or the State Bar of Michigan or their respective officers, directors, employees, agents, representatives, shareholders, and subsidiaries. None of the content should be considered legal advice. As always, consult a lawyer.