The Smartest Person in the Room? The One Who Asks and Learns

Episode Notes

Transcript

Tony Sipp:

And welcome back to The Paralegal Voice. My name is Tony Sipp, and I’m here with a special guest, June Hunter. June Hunter is a technical enablement specialist for legal software company Disco, where she works daily to train individuals on legal technology. Prior to joining Disco, June worked as a paralegal IT service provider, eDiscovery specialist at CGS3 LLP, a boutique real estate firm in San Diego. She’s equipped with a powerful combination of IT systems expertise and legal experience and has a unique capability for recognizing and resolving the complex technology issues encountered in a law firm. Folks, please welcome June Hunter.

June Hunter:

Thanks, Tony. It’s such an honor to be here with you today.

Tony Sipp:

I love it. Did I miss anything in that intro?

June Hunter:

Well, I also am an adjunct professor, right?

Tony Sipp:

You are. That’s true.

June Hunter:

I teach legal technology surprise in three ABA approved paralegal programs. I do teach discovery. So in my UCSD course, students learn how to draft discovery, new paralegals. And then I just said yes to Clio Maka Community College here in San Diego as well, and I’m doing their eDiscovery teaching. So we just started our basics, and then in the spring we’ll go into an intermediate. And then I’m the technology trainer for Legal Professionals Inc. Here in California, which is an amazing organization that really teaches all things that I think paralegals should know. It used to be called Legal Secretaries Association, but they’ve pivoted because their training is so much more than just for legal secretaries.

Tony Sipp:

It is. I actually joined a few programs and I intend on joining next year because they already have their schedule already on calendar. Just download the. iCS. It’s fantastic. I love their program. You have an impressive career, June. You have a career that expands three decades. So tell us, what inspired you to enter the legal field back in 1990?

June Hunter:

So as a seven, eight-year-old, I determined I was going to be an attorney when I grew up. I always knew. People are like, “You’re going to change your mind. Everybody wants to be a firefighter.” I’m like, “Well, I could do that in my spare time, but I want to be a lawyer.” Lots of people who know me have heard that I grew up well below the poverty line, well below. And so college wasn’t necessarily an option straight out of high school. So I did the next best thing. I moved to San Diego and I applied for a law firm job and I thought I could make some money and then get back to school. And so as an 18-year-old, the job available was a file clerk. Good old-fashioned files. Didn’t have a computer. Only secretaries had computers. They booted from floppy. We didn’t have windows.

There weren’t mice. We didn’t have those fancy tools. I was really exposed. It was a firm here in San Diego that did a lot of insurance defense and municipality work, and I had no idea what the legal world really looked like. I had some idea from TV. We all do.

Tony Sipp:

Yeah.

June Hunter:

It’s a bit disappointing when you figure out that the TV is really sensationalized. It’s not even close. Not even. But that doesn’t happen. And the amount of time that you have to work. People think that you have a nine to five job, and that’s really not true, especially for most roles these days. But I loved my job. And so as things progressed, I just moved through the roles with on- the-job training to receptionist, legal secretary, trial lit support, all those things. So I’ve never done anything but work in legal. So at least as a seven-year-old me, I’d be like, I did accomplish what I’d set out to do, which is work in the law. And I’ve always, there’s never been anything else for me. Interestingly enough, this is it. I’ve worked in legal for 35 years.

Tony Sipp:

Wow. That’s impressive. That’s impressive. Some people aren’t even that old. So it’s just really impressive. The benefit you have is that you know how technology has changed and evolved over the years. So man, you can just explain what a foppy does and why we hit it to save things. Many people understand that and what those little icons mean. Absolutely amazing. What a journey though. Did you choose to do the secretary or did you try to involve to the paralegal and the IT? Because you’re getting exposed to a lot. So how did you navigate such a diverse career path?

June Hunter:

One of the things is I always said, I’m never going to be a paralegal. I’m going to law school. It’s happening. And when I started in legal, there were a couple of things that I think have since left our area, which is good. One was the thought that you became a paralegal because you couldn’t hack law school. And I was like, I don’t want that set of me.

But nowadays, it’s such an honor to say I’m a paralegal. At the firm I worked at initially, there were two paralegals for the whole firm. Now we see so many more paralegals working because you aspire to be a paralegal. And I let my students know all the time that as a paralegal, you have the ability to change the world in so many different ways. Paralegals are more committed to assisting and doing pro bono work and really reaching out to bridge a social justice gap that unfortunately hasn’t closed. It’s opened so much over the past few years. So I aspire to be a paralegal and California has very specific rules. Thanks to the Los Angeles Paralegal Association. For people who don’t know, LAPA may be the largest paralegal organization in the state of California. They have a big voice. And so LAPA had a big push, which if I understand the history correctly, led to 6450 being established, led to paralegals having to get a paralegal certificate and complete education, having to do MCLE, which some people may go, I don’t know about the MCLE, but I love it.

Tony Sipp:

I do too.

June Hunter:

It holds us accountable.

Tony Sipp:

Exactly. And abreast and the new laws.

June Hunter:

Yes, absolutely. And it brought a level of sophistication and professionalism to our industry. We already knew it was there. No one else knew it was there. Now, attorneys are like, oh.

Tony Sipp:

They see the value.

June Hunter:

They do. And we have a bigger seat at the table. We have a bigger connection with our clients, whether it’s corporate clients or Bob who comes in and says, look, I got pulled over for a speeding ticket and I need some navigation or whatever their particular legal challenge is because two areas in our world that are very scary for all humans, medicine and legal. And if you’re seeking that advanced help, something bad has probably happened. And you need, like I say, you need a Sherpa. Paralegals are Sherpas. We’re there. We’re there to hold your hand. We’re there to tell you the next step. We’re that go- between from the attorney to the client. We’re your Sherpa and we’re good at it. We’re really good at doing that.

Tony Sipp:

Exactly.

June Hunter:

It also is an area where you have to have a great amount of empathy for your clients. And again, it doesn’t matter whether it’s a corporate client or an individual that has come to you on their worst day ever. You have to have a level of empathy for those that you deal with because you have more time. I say this from not a real perspective, but that perception, you have more time to spend with the client than the attorney does, and that’s what you do. You break things down in easily digestible chunks and you are the best project manager of the world will ever see, hands down. You are the best project manager the world will ever see, right?

Tony Sipp:

Say it again.

June Hunter:

I think if you are outside of legal and you want to be a project manager and get that certification, just partner with a paralegal. You don’t even have to take a course. You will just nail that test at the end of the day because we know we’re like an octopus with eight arms going a thousand different directions and we know where everything is. And we also, you don’t need to go to that home reader or the person who has the-

Tony Sipp:

Determine your future. Oh

June Hunter:

My gosh, that ball. Crystal ball. Yeah. You know, you anticipate-

Tony Sipp:

Psychic.

June Hunter:

Yes. You have psychic capabilities. Clairvoyancy becomes that superhero skill you didn’t know you had, but now you haven’t. It’s the reason now that I tell people you should aspire to be. And I explain that to my students all the time, the value they add. The ability they have in the pro bono world to be a court appointed special advocate of CASA, to work at an immigration clinic or an expungement clinic, you have the ability to do that. And I encourage my students to do that because it’s why I teach to give back to a profession that has always provided for me, always. For me, for my family as a single mom, it’s always been there. And as nerdy as I’ve always been, my population embraces the nerdiness. And so I’m lucky I aspire to be a legal professional. I’m very lucky. There’s

Tony Sipp:

A reason I invited you on, because I mean, one, I know you, and I know how incredible you are. I mean, even dropping in on one of your classes, I was in awe. The students were just eating it all up, and I’m like, “It’s June, of course it’s exactly what’s going to happen.” So I know you do great work. And I love the aspect of the access to justice and making sure you’re teaching that, giving back to the community. That’s what motivated me, getting involved and being restricted from access to justice or having people in my family or people around me that were restricted to access to justice made me even a fiercer advocate to do that. And so once I got into the legal field, I mean, what better way to do that? And I try to cross over with the legal, the politics and the community.

I mean, that’s my happy place and couldn’t be happier. I love that you had that passion and had that passion. And I got to admit, I did the same thing. The one thing during the pandemic that stayed that you could still do is work remotely because the law firms weren’t going anywhere. Their legal issues weren’t going anywhere and you get to continue to work. I wasn’t true for everybody, but it’s a staple. Legal field is a staple. It’s important for us.

June Hunter:

I actually made a job change during COVID. I was fully remote from … Yeah. And I’d had a home office for a long time just based on the type of work I did. And so I was prepared to come home and work from home, but I made a job change. I was like, I was finishing my bachelor’s degree. I had been teaching at UCSD for a number of years already. And so I went back to school. I met my husband about 13 years ago. We’ve been married about 10 and a half, and he was super supportive of me continuing my education. And so I graduated submucumadi from UMass Lowell because they had a fully remote program and it was amazing. English major, legal studies minor. So I knew I wanted to make a switch. And I just sent my resume out because I thought even if I don’t get a job, practice interviewing is great.

So if you look at it as I’m going to learn something instead of, oh my gosh, I’m going to interview for a job. What if I get this wrong? You’re probably going to get something wrong. We all do, but

It happens. So for me, it was, I’ll just practice interviewing and when COVID’s over, I’ll have this down and I can get a job. But I was hired in 2021 for my company and I’m fully remote. So yeah.

Tony Sipp:

That’s awesome.That’s a great story. Let’s take a quick commercial break and we’ll be right back. And welcome back to The Paralegal Voice. My name is Tony Sipp and I’m here with June Hunter. Before I continue, just please make sure to like and subscribe to the paralegal Voice and tell your friends about us. It’d be nice to get some ice and some subscriptions going on. That’d be great. So if you can get on Spotify, Apple, please do so. Thank you. And June, you’ve worked across IP, litigation, corporate, real estate, transactional law. What area has challenged you or intrigued you the most?

June Hunter:

So I’ll say intellectual property. I moved back to California in 1997 with 200 bucks in my pocket and a car payment due, and I needed a job. I was going to go to USD and I needed a job. And so I had a headhunter that I met with and she was like, “I got a job for you. It’s temporary, but it’ll be permanent.” She’s like, “Do you know WordPerfect six point, whatever?” I’m like, “No.” She’s like, “Just get a book from the library. It’ll take you a few hours just to read up and then show up tomorrow.” And I’m like, “Okay.” So I go in and it was for a word processing position and they sat me down and gave me 15 minutes of training on computer technology I had never used. It was networked and you had to save documents into a document management system.

I didn’t even know what that was. And so then they handed me a transcription machine and said, “You need to transcribe these tapes today.” And they sent me off to a corner of the office where no one was sitting around me. It was a Russian scientist that was talking to a jury, giving them a tutorial on the items for trial because it was an intellectual property lawsuit. And your jury appears, they’re not going to be PhDs. And it was a pharmaceutical case. I spent all day transcribing tapes. I saw no one. And they were words that I had never heard of before. I only got two of them wrong though out of everything I transcribed. And they said, “Okay, come back tomorrow. We have more transcription for you. ” And I was like, okay. It was one of the biggest challenges of my career to work with people who had advanced degrees.

Here I am, 20 something year old June, terrified of all of these PhD MD lawyers, but I did well. And it was really fast paced. On the fly, they say, “All right, June, I need you to get into chem draw.” I’m like, “I don’t know what chem drive is. Good.You have 10 minutes to figure that out. I need a drawing to get in this patent application.” That’s where my love for all things legal tech came in was that firm, it was a pivotal moment in my career. I stopped going to college and I was like, “I’m going to do this forever. I’m going to learn everything I can. ” All in. A couple of years in, they went bankrupt and then I was pregnant with my kid and had to make a pivot back to other things. But it really motivated me to really look at all the things that I could achieve working in a law firm.

It was no longer, “You got to go to law school.” I’m like, “I don’t have to go to law school. It’s a big world.” And that was because of technology. And I know there are some questions along the way about how legal technologies change things. It hasn’t just changed things, it’s changed people. If we look at senior paralegals now, we have some amazing paralegals in Art Miss that are no longer technically practicing paralegals. You never take your paralegal cap off. You approach everything you do with your paralegal hat on. But legal ops people, they’re e-discovery specialists, they do a lot of that legal tech. They move into technology from that paralegal role, which I would say makes us so much better at technology because we understand how things are supposed to work. And at that IP firm, the IT guy had a computer science degree and the secretaries would get upset with him because something wouldn’t work the way they needed it to.

And he’s like, “Joon, it works.” I’m like, “No, but it doesn’t work that way.” Yeah, but what’s the big deal? And I’m like, “I don’t know. There’s this really teeny place called the US PTO. It’s small, but they got rules you got to follow.” And I would walk him through that in a way that he, a total techie could understand. He’s like, “No one’s ever talked to me this way before.” And I’m like, “Well, that would therein lies the issue.” But if you think about it, if you talk to anyone in a way that they’re going to understand, you get better by in that way. Paralegals become really good at doing that as well, but it changed my whole career path. It changes your workflow process and how you get things done, how you look at a task now instead of going, “All right, I got to get a whiteboard out and I got to whiteboard this.

” You have virtual tools that will do that you can get back to. I didn’t learn shorthand. I wished I would’ve now. For anyone thinking you want a hobby, learn shorthand. So I had to find a way to take notes really fast. And I always had pen and paper. And so I started opening up Outlook emails, drafts, just blank ones, and you could take notes there. And the novelty of it is this. If your machine crashes, Outlook is really good at saving yourself.

Tony Sipp:

It does. You lost this. You would like to recover?

June Hunter:

Yeah. And you don’t have to delete them, so you can leave them there. I’d have a couple hundred at a time in my drafts folder, but when the boss came in and said, “Hey, June, I don’t think I instruct you to do this. ” I’m like, “Funny, you should mention that. Let me go back to my notes.” And I’m like, “It’s right here. This is exactly what we discussed.” Oh, really? Technology changes that. Notes don’t get lost. Your dog doesn’t eat your homework. It’s technology that drives that and you can reach more people. Hands down, you can reach more people.

Tony Sipp:

How do you feel about AI then?

June Hunter:

AI is wonderful in many respects. I’ve been at a lot of conferences. I presented it solid Atlanta last year. I’ve been at conferences this year, both talking about and learning about AI. So people believe that AI is new. It’s not. Do you remember Clipi?

Yes.You remember. I forget the cat’s name. That was AI. At its basic tenants, that was AI. Clippy was there to help. And so I would actually advocate for that same kind of thought process. AI is here to assist. My husband told me some expert in the field said that paralegals will be non … I’m like, the guy’s not a paralegal. He has no idea what we do. And who’s going to proof the work that gets done? The firms that don’t have a paralegal proofing their work are the ones who have higher instances of hallucinated cases because paralegals know how to shepherdize. I remember being in the library sheopardizing. We proof all of those things. And AI is a great assistant. A couple of examples of that is one, from a teaching perspective, I tell my students, I don’t want you using AI to do your work.

And for legal tech, they can. But I do want you to utilize it to summarize. My discovery principles course, they have a lot of rules they have to go through. And I’m like, in today’s fast-paced environment, you don’t have time to read everything. It is the digital cliff note. Two, from a teacher’s perspective, how do you come up with assignments that you

Tony Sipp:

Might

June Hunter:

… So I go in, an example is my students had to do a PowerPoint assignment because if you work in litigation, not everybody can afford the bougie fancy tools of trial director. And so you use PowerPoint and I needed a fact pattern. And I went in to Gemini and said, Hey, create me a fact pattern for X, Y, and Z for students in an ABA approval. It came back and I was like, oh, it’s a murder case that could be triggering. All right. Jemy, I realized this. I want a white collar crime, which easily it spit out, gave me exhibits that could be used at trial. The whole thing. It would’ve taken me days to get through that. 15 minutes.

Tony Sipp:

I

June Hunter:

Had an assignment. AI, ethically used is great. The problem is that I don’t know that people understand how the technology works. And someone said to me that they use it to draft letters and memos to clients and things. And I’m like, probably not a good idea if you’re using ChatGPT. If you’ve entered into a business associate agreement with your software solution, then it doesn’t get out on the worldwide web.

Tony Sipp:

Exactly. It’s enclosed it’s contained.

June Hunter:

People don’t understand the difference between the two and from an e-discovery perspective. If you think about it, and I have to go to disco because I love my company that I work at. When the prompts are trained, our tool will review 22 to 30 some thousand documents an hour, an hour. We’re not talking days. You could get through a hundred thousand documents, what, three and a half, four hours max.

Tony Sipp:

Can you imagine?

June Hunter:

It’s a game changer. And when they hear the price take, they’re like, “Oh my gosh, that’s so costly.” Yeah, but if you had a team of reviewers at your firm doing it, how long? Or if you even had managed review teams doing it, how long is that going to take?

Tony Sipp:

And cost.

June Hunter:

Correct. But that is the biggest misconception about legal technology that I’ve ever seen in my entire career. The cost of software. My client is cost conscious. Really? How much do you bill an hour?

How much do you bill an hour? How much of that time are you going to have to write off when the client goes, “I can’t afford that. ” But what if you could engage a managed review team that was $55 an hour and you were given a guaranteed quote? Our company gives you a guaranteed quote. We go over weed the overage, right? Not everybody does that. We do. We’re very confident. We guarantee that. So I had a paralegal tell me that their client was cost conscious. I’m like, “Let’s walk down that path for a moment.” And I don’t do sales, but let’s walk down that path for a moment. She’s like, when we got to the end, she was like, “I never thought about it this way. I know. You only see a price tag and you go, it’s going to cost you a lot of money.” Second, the ethics of it all.

It’s unethical to overbill your client. And that’s exactly what people who do e-discovery the wrong way are doing. If you’re still working on paper, Bates stamp, and this isn’t just for litigation, this is for all aspects of law. If you’re using a typewriter to type your pleadings, taking too long, right? It’s not ethical to do that. And as a paralegal, we have to take four hours of ethics more than the attorneys do. So I’ve read the ABA rules, I’ve read the CallBar rules. So the biggest misconception is it’s going to cost us too much money. It will not cost you too much money. If you factor in the amount of hourly fees that get marked off for different processes, if you use the technology to do it, will take a lot less and you can show the value to your clients like, “Look, we’re using technology to do this.

” Those firms who are embracing that will be the honey that attracts those clients hands down. And we already see that. I know where I sit, I see it all the time.

Tony Sipp:

It’s a perfect time for a break because let that get digested there for a second because I mean, you’re sharing things that AI is not here to replace the paralegals, it’s the person who knows AI that’s going to replace the person who doesn’t know AI. Yes.

June Hunter:

And that is an industry standard now when we see layoffs. The largest amount of people being laid off are those whose jobs can be more automated by AI and the people replacing them are the people who have the AI experience to go in and do that. So you have to know the basic foundations of what you’re doing. AI isn’t smart enough to do that no matter what people think.

Tony Sipp:

Let’s take a quick commercial break for our sponsors and we will be right back. And welcome back to The Paralegal Voice. My name is Tony Sipp and I’m here with JA Hunter. We’re having a fabulous conversation about the eDiscovery, the ethics, AI. It’s really intriguing. So one of the things I see in you, Joan, is that your ability to take something that’s complex and legalese and break it down so that the layman can understand that. Personally, I think that’s a gift that you have that I see in you. That’s why you’re such an incredible teacher and just an incredible person. With people, it’s a gift. How is it that you continue to translate that? I mean, what is it? I see it as something that you do and you do very well.

June Hunter:

So I’ve worked with attorneys for a long time and I, over my career, got partnered with attorneys that couldn’t keep a secretary or was not going to use the technology and learned how to use it because I’m like, you have two choices. Use it or I force you to use it. So I’m not going to. We’re going to get over that. There are a lot of fear with technology. But one of the things that I noticed over time is that people like to use technical terms, that’s the legalese and the tech world, because I think they believe it will prove that they are intelligent. I don’t think that proves intelligence. People can learn big words. And so I learned that for the attorneys and even other legal professionals to understand what you’re doing, talk to them in their language or pick a topic that they know.

I posted about this on LinkedIn recently at disco, I was training a team a couple years ago in Dubai and we were talking about early case assessment and they could not fathom why they would use early case assessment. And early case assessment tool is where you dump all your data in, you’re paying a much lower cost, and then you’re going through it and only pulling out the items that you know are potentially responsive or potentially privileged, right? And you’re saving money and time by doing that. And they were like, “But we have these other workflows we use.” Okay, let me talk to you about a chocolate cake. Because at that moment I was thinking, what will anyone in the world over identify with chocolate cake?

Tony Sipp:

Yes.

June Hunter:

So I said, imagine you are really busy and you have to bake a chocolate cake. You don’t have a choice. You have to bake this, but you can’t go buy the ingredients. So you have to send someone, a friend, a spouse, a partner, whoever it is, out to the store. And they’re looking at your list and they get to the baking goods aisle and they’re like, “Well, stark chocolate. Was that 70% cacao or 80% cacao?” I’ll just get both. Oh, flour? Is it cake flour or do I need to just get the all- purpose stuff? So they buy the ingredients you’ve given them, but not knowing what the specifics are, not being able to ask you. We’ll pretend cell phones hadn’t been invented when they’re shopping for this.

They couldn’t ask you. So they bought extra ingredients and they bring those home and they unpack everything. And you’re like, “That’s great, but why do you have two things?” Well, I wasn’t sure what you needed. So you put the things you don’t need in the pantry and you go back to them if you need them again. Every person on the call was like, “I totally get this. ” There you go. Right? Even if it isn’t a chocolate cake, somebody’s got to cook something and you need some ingredients. And that’s how we have to talk about things with individual. If you want the tech averse individuals to embrace tech, stop using big words. Related to something they’re already used to doing, whether that’s golfing or making a cake or whatever their thing is, talk to them about that thing. Then they’re like, “Oh, you break down some barriers.” And then they’re like, “Oh, you talk what I talk, so no longer will I stop tuning you out.

I will now listen to you as well.” So meet people where they are. You will teach them much faster.

Tony Sipp:

That’s amazing. And highlight Mark that part nearing the end. So what piece of advice, Joan, would you give someone just starting off as a paralegal or legal tech professional?

June Hunter:

There are a couple of things that I try to impress upon my students, so I’ll list them here. One, always ask questions. Two, smartest person in the room is not the best person for the job. It’s the person who knows they’re not the smartest. They’re going to ask questions they’re going to learn.

Tony Sipp:

Yes.

June Hunter:

Next, always make sure that you have your finger on the pulse of how things are changing in technology and legal, because those two parse together at the same intersection and you need to keep on top of that because that’s what will make sure you have long-term success. The last thing, well, kind of wrapped into two things that I always like to tell my students is this. Again, I love the company I work for. Disco has had an amazing transformation in the four and a half years I’ve been there. We have these great employee value propositions. And one of those is give space and grace. You never know if you’re going to be the one that’s asked to give someone space and allow them the grace to do what they need to do, or if you are going to be the person that needs the space and grace.

But if you afford that to others, that will come back to you so that when you need it, you will have it. And that is how you navigate the world. We have other ones like Step Up to the Challenge and things like that, but Space and Grace resonates with me because you never know which side of that you’re going to be on. And it changes up as things change, right?

Tony Sipp:

So true.

June Hunter:

And volunteer. I look back at my career, my upbringing. There was no encouragement in a positive way when I was growing up. But my first grade teacher, who I spoke with until my kid was three, she encouraged me. There were quite a few women along the way when it wasn’t cool to be a strong woman who were strong women, and they believed so I did. You do not have to be famous. You do not have to be rich. You don’t have to have any of those things. But what will make you wealthy is your ability to encourage a child to succeed in a world that is just mired with bad things all around. Believe in them, encourage them. That’s how you change the world. One child at a time because that person then goes out and they will encourage others. That’s what you have to do.

No one has to know about it. It’s not one of those things you go on and you go, “I’ve encouraged all these people. ” What does happen though is you see the world change and you were part of that world change that is desperately needed today. That’s what I tell my students, those things. I know it’s more than one, but that’s what I tend to tell them.

Tony Sipp:

It’s enough. It’s enough. I’m going to end it there. So June, where can people reach you if they want to reach out to you?

June Hunter:

Sure. I’m on LinkedIn. I And I will get you all my link to my LinkedIn. Also, I’m a disco, [email protected]. And disco for anyone that wants to know is short for discovery, not for dancing. I

Tony Sipp:

Actually didn’t know that. Always.

June Hunter:

Yeah, I know. Lots of people don’t. And when I tell them, they’re like, oh yeah, that makes sense.

Tony Sipp:

It does.

June Hunter:

But yeah, I mean, feel free to reach out. I’m always happy to answer questions. You don’t have to be one of my students or any of those things. If you need anything, I’m here. That’s what the legal community does. We support each other.

Tony Sipp:

Yeah. It’s a large community, but it’s really small. Really, really small. It is. Wow. Thank you for being our guest. Thank you for what you do and how you’re such a fierce advocate. I hope people felt your passion. I felt it. We got to do more of you and we need more of you.

June Hunter:

Yeah, my husband might disagree, but …

Tony Sipp:

We do. We need those strong women that encourage you the way that you just encourage everybody that’s listening to this station right now because I’m inspired.

June Hunter:

No, I actually am lucky I married up. But being the voice of someone is really important to me because if you’re not seen and you’re not heard, what value are people giving you? And no one should ever feel like they can’t be seen or they can’t be heard or they have no value. We all have value. And if you are unable to speak for yourself, reach out. I’m happy to be your advocate. You need to be seen. You need to be heard. And don’t remain silent because we’re in interesting times now, but not saying something means that those people that are oppressing others, they get to win. And in my book, they don’t get to win. Mean people do not get to win. Absolutely not. Not on my watch. Mean people don’t get to win. Nice people get to win.

Tony Sipp:

You’re the voice of the unheard, the voiceless. So you’re like, I guess the paralegal voice is what you are. It’s really great. It’s really great. All right, folks. We’ve had a wonderful time. Don’t forget to like and subscribe, hit that button, and we will see you the next time on the paralegal voice. Have a wonderful day.

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