Ring, Ring! What to Expect When You Call Up a Marketing Agency

Episode Notes

Transcript

Gyi Tsakalakis:

Conrad. So our rundown, our pre-show prep document says casual banter, keep it fun, personal, and loose. But we’re recording today on November 6th and wow. Are you feeling fun and loose?

Conrad Saam:

Dear, dear podcast listener, if you’ve listened to me for a while, you’ll know that I fall on the left, left, left end of the political persuasion spectrum and I’ve never been kind of hiding that. I don’t know what to say, man. I don’t know what to say

Gyi Tsakalakis:

Say fun and loose. Keep it fun and loose.

Conrad Saam:

Fun and loose. Here I’ll give you some fun and loose this just in a boon for immigration and civil rights lawyers. Can we get a thump thump from Adam on that one? I don’t know what it is. Hard to go fun and loose today.

Gyi Tsakalakis:

It’s good that you’re trying to find some silver linings. What else besides fun and loose are we talking about today?

Conrad Saam:

We are starting with the news and then you are going to play Mr. Robinson. We are going to call in from Paul Robinson’s law firm. We are going to have you call into me as if you are interested in hiring an agency and we are going to share with the listeners what an agency should be asking you and what you should be asking an agency. Hit it.

Announcer:

Welcome to Lunch Hour Legal Marketing teaching you how to promote market and make fat stacks for your legal practice here on Legal Talk Network.

Conrad Saam:

Alright everyone, as usual, despite the political news yesterday, we are going to start with the legal tech and otherwise relevant to the podcast news in a moment. Hey, Gyi, on Halloween chat, GPT search launched, can you tell our listeners about that?

Gyi Tsakalakis:

Yes. So we knew this was coming open AI enters the search Fray Chat g PT search for everybody is now available. Encourage folks to go check that out. Some of the headlines, it’s bing heavy. So as been mentioned before, if you haven’t been paying attention to Bing, you might check that out. There’s some other sources, I’d check out their documentation, but I’ll tell you, I’ve been playing around with it and it’s going to attract users. People are going to be using chat GPT search. And so I would start trying to understand and see where your firm shows up in those results.

Conrad Saam:

Alright, this is going to get really, really funky and I do believe we’re going to see continued consumer changes to using AI as research. This is research instead of search, right? It is deeper and it is more personalized and I think you’re getting more of an opportunity for research as opposed to search. Now listen, Gyi, I was reading Search Engine Roundtable on Halloween and I saw your logo. Good job. You did a quick review with Barry Schwartz on the learn something specific question box on Google Business Profile. What are we seeing here?

Gyi Tsakalakis:

Yeah, so there’s a feature that looks like they’re testing or maybe is rolled out or is related to some of the other updates they’ve done to maps. I would check out Google’s recent blog posts on maps updates, but essentially it’s a generative AI question box in your Google Business profile and we’ll put a link in there. But I used the example that I saw on our company’s Google business profile and you can ask questions about attorneys sync right there and you can ask who founded it, it got it right? You can ask things about our services that aren’t listed in our Google business profile and it’s pulling that information. And so I think we’ve been talking about intersection of local search and generative AI in Google and this is one of those features that I think we’re going to see more of.

Conrad Saam:

Okay, we’ve just finished Halloween. We went through the spooky election cycle as well. I got a couple of pictures sent to me of kids dressed up as Attorney Billboards. The one specifically I can recall right now is there was a friend of a friend. In fact the friend of the friend, the friend who I’m talking about, Gyi, is a friend of ours who’s appeared on this podcast. We’ll leave that a secret because it’s their kid who showed up dressed as a billboard for Sonara. There were a couple of other of these, right? You’ve seen them as well.

Gyi Tsakalakis:

Yep. Top Dog Law made the Halloween outfit costume list and a couple others. But we talk about this and people will say maybe they’ll say it’s cute, but from a branding, think about the brand power of kids dressing up as you for Halloween and then sharing it on social media. You want to talk about branding, that’s a great example. So again, might not be right for you, but we thought it’s relevant and it is a good example of the power of brand.

Conrad Saam:

And finally we did a podcast the other day answering legal’s legal marketing end of year round table discussion. You were also on Profit, scale and Thrive. What’d you guys talk about there?

Gyi Tsakalakis:

Yeah, we will drop a link to that. Had an opportunity to talk with Kelly Brubaker on Navigating Law Firm Marketing on her podcast and really enjoyed that conversation. So if you give some love and shout to that episode, go check it out.

Conrad Saam:

And the answering legal marketing end of the year round table discussion. We had a lot of conversations around dirty tactics used by both vendors and law firms. That does not seem to have gone away.

Gyi Tsakalakis:

We’ve talked about this in the past. Conrad and I and Legal Talk Network. We don’t buy fake podcast reviews. We’re not doing fake social indicators. We’re not in any kind of engagement pods. We’re not in any podcast pods, podcast pods, that’s

Conrad Saam:

Podcast pods.

Gyi Tsakalakis:

That’s unintentional pun as thing. But we do need you to go out and vote again. But seriously, leave us a review. Rate the po, we greatly appreciate it. If you haven’t done that and you like this, let us know. Thank you. Now let’s take a break. So if you’re a longtime Lunch, Hour, Legal, Marketing listener, you know that Conrad and I love to hear from the audience. So by the way, if you’ve got questions or topics you’d like to suggest, please hit us up. Paul Robinson is a long time listener and he asked us to take a look at his website and so Conrad and I thought it would be even more fun to role play. I’m going to be Paul Conrad’s going to be Conrad, and we’re going to walk through some of the things that we would suggest that to have a conversation about what Paul might ask in the legal marketing agency exploratory call.

So I’m pretending I’m Paul. Paul and I don’t know each other, I don’t know anything about Paul’s firm aside from what he’s shared with us and what we can glean online. So I’m going to make some things up. So this is a fictitious role play here, but we thought it might be interesting to go through that process and that you might find some value in this conversation. So this is kind of like the conversation that we think you ought to be having with vetting marketing folks in order to have a better experience in the end. So I’m going to step into character here and call up Conrad because we have a scheduled consultation about marketing. So I’m going to give him a call now. Hey Paul. I have a very old rotary phone that I’m using.

Conrad Saam:

I love that. By the way, dear listener. Adam was looking for a good phone ring while we were setting this up and that’s what he came up with. So we’ll go retro. It’s like our news break, the music, this is all retro here today. Okay. Hi Paul, nice to connect with you.

Gyi Tsakalakis:

Conrad, great to meet you.

Conrad Saam:

Listen, I see that you came into our database almost two years ago. You downloaded the Escape FindLaw guide that I wrote a long, long time ago. Are you still working with FindLaw?

Gyi Tsakalakis:

Well, I, I’m a huge Lunch Hour, Legal Marketing fan, of course.

Conrad Saam:

Okay.

Gyi Tsakalakis:

And so grateful for the opportunity to talk to you today. I can tell you a little bit about my firm if you’d like. We’re a smaller PI firm. We’re in Raleigh, North Carolina, got an associate, a couple paralegals. We do have a dedicated intake person. We’ve been in business since 2021 and most of our business, a lot of other firms, we rely primarily on referrals or attorney referrals. And we do get some organic visibility. We’ve got some reviews and people do find us through search, but I’m getting to this point where I’d like to be able to ramp up my presence and I’m trying to learn what are the best ways to do that. So here we are. I’m kind of curious, what would you tell someone like me about what I should be doing online?

Conrad Saam:

Well, there’s a lot that you can do. I think part of what we need to get into is where do you want to go? What does the firm look like in 12 months? So it’s early November right now, lots of people are taking this opportunity to think about their plans for 2025, what are your business plans for 2025? And they can be things like, they could be revenue goals, they could be hiring goals, they could be adding a new office goal, adding practice areas, subtracting practice areas. Where are you planning on going next year? What’s the map? Where do you want to get to?

Gyi Tsakalakis:

Great question. And I’d also be super curious to get some guidance on this, but we got two lawyers right now. We got two office locations. One of those office locations is in Raleigh. Listening to you guys, I kind of have this hunch that maybe I’m under-resourced in my Raleigh office, but I do have this other Carney office and I think maybe we should be focusing on Carney, but look like everybody else, I want to grow. How much? I don’t know. I see some of these ads and double your law firm, it seems kind of unrealistic, but for looking at maybe a 30% growth in top line revenue or 30% growth in open case files, I think that’s something we could reasonably handle with our existing staff. And on top of that, we’d be open to opening new office locations and we’d be opening to hiring people to support it.

Conrad Saam:

So a couple questions out of order here. Why on earth did you open the Raleigh office?

Gyi Tsakalakis:

Well, that’s where we started. We

Conrad Saam:

Started in Raleigh and moved up to Carney.

Gyi Tsakalakis:

Yeah, that’s probably a good point. We probably didn’t do that, but

Conrad Saam:

You didn’t do that. Yeah, I’m pretty sure you did the obvious dumb thing which was started in the suburbs and then you’re like, Hey, there’s a much bigger market in Raleigh, maybe we should open an office there. Is that what happened, Paul?

Gyi Tsakalakis:

That is what happened. Thank

Conrad Saam:

You for,

Gyi Tsakalakis:

I had a little amnesia there for a second.

Conrad Saam:

I’ve read this story a couple of times. So let me ask a question and I want to knock this off because we’re talking about it right now. But do you have any way of telling whether or not that Raleigh office is generating business

Gyi Tsakalakis:

Sort of right? We get some phone calls to Raleigh, but we’re not very sophisticated in terms of, I’m not tracking phone calls from using CallRail from Raleigh using, we’re not using CallRail.

Conrad Saam:

You’re not using CallRail. So when you say we get some phone calls to Raleigh, how do you know that?

Gyi Tsakalakis:

Well, because it’s like we can tell by where they believe we have a different phone number for our office location. So people are calling the Raleigh office, but how are they finding that office? It’s probably people searching my name. It’s probably lawyers that know me that are doing a searches on my name and my firm name and are calling the Raleigh office.

Conrad Saam:

And very bluntly with the Raleigh office, you’ve got 22 reviews there. You are in a very, very competitive market. I could be wrong about this. The theory tells me that from a pure driving business perspective, the Raleigh office is a waste of your time and you’re actually expending a really valuable resource, which is those reviews on a market in which you’re never going to play. But I could be wrong about that. And so before we do anything with that Raleigh office, we should probably validate whether or not I’m wrong. And so what I would want to do is install some tracking to see A, are people going to the website from your Raleigh office? And B, are they contacting you either directly from Google business profile or after they get to the site. And there’s really good ways for us to be able to put in some infrastructure to evaluate whether or not Raleigh is driving some incremental business for you. But lemme go back to your big picture. You said you wanted to do a 30% increase either in top line revenue or open cases. You only do pi, right?

Gyi Tsakalakis:

Yeah, it’s all pi. We do some comp too, but mostly it’s PI and workers’ comp.

Conrad Saam:

Okay.

Gyi Tsakalakis:

People who are hurt.

Conrad Saam:

My strong recommendation is to jettison the revenue number as a goal for next year because the revenue that you generate next year is going to be primarily based on the work that you have done in 2024. So for PI specifically, I think that’s a pretty poor metric to be looking at in terms of how today’s marketing is actually working. And if you want to go deeper on this, John Knock Hazel has done a whole bunch of work in forecasting revenue for law firms specifically in the PI world. I would recommend checking out fireproof. They talk about that a little bit. So I would really recommend talking about opening cases, opening matters instead of talking about revenue. So when you are, you said a 30% increase, what are you doing today? What’s that currently look like?

Gyi Tsakalakis:

Not much to be honest with you. Conrad, and I’ll be honest with you, I’ve been talking to some other agencies too, and a lot of folks have been asking me about our organic traffic. They want to see Google Analytics, they want to see our search console data. And so I don’t know if you have any thoughts on traffic, but we do some blog posting as you conceive when you get to the site. But we’re really, it’s mostly do good work. We get some referrals. It’s a lot of the relationships that I’ve had from before I hung my shingle. It’s just kind of like the old school type of mentality. We haven’t really done much online.

Conrad Saam:

So you haven’t done much online. So let me go back to that question. What are you currently doing? Can you quantify what 30% increase? Looks like

Gyi Tsakalakis:

You’re in terms of number of cases last year?

Conrad Saam:

Yeah. Yeah. So are you opening a hundred cases a month?

Gyi Tsakalakis:

No, no, no. We’re doing, we’re carrying about a hundred cases and maybe we open three to five a month.

Conrad Saam:

Three to five a month. And you’re carrying a hundred I think somewhere. I think you’re either really, really slow law

Gyi Tsakalakis:

Firm. We only started in 2021, we started, we’ve only been around for three years,

Conrad Saam:

But you’re opening three to five a month and you’re carrying a hundred cases right now.

Gyi Tsakalakis:

I’m pulling up these numbers off the fly. What do you think I should be

Conrad Saam:

Generating? I don’t know. It just feels like there hasn’t been a single case that has gone all the way through the system. If you’re three years old and you’re generating three matters a month, and that would be 36 matters a year, which would be about a hundred cases, which means you have not closed a single case since you started three years

Gyi Tsakalakis:

Ago. Yeah, man, I take everything to trial. We take everything to trial, man.

Conrad Saam:

Instead of trying to backdoor your math here, lemme ask a different question. What’s the value of a case a typical, I’m not asking average, I’m asking typical. What’s the value of a typical matter for you and is it really a wide spectrum?

Gyi Tsakalakis:

Yeah, it’s all over the map, right? We do some dog bite cases and slip and fall, but we also do significant car accident cases. And again, to tell you the truth, it just kind of depends on what we get because it depends on what referrals, because mostly relying on referrals and attorney referrals and so it’s all over the map. But I would say we are not really opening up a file unless it’s worth, we call it maybe 10 grand.

Conrad Saam:

10 grand. Okay. And for that 10 grand, do you have a perspective of, we talk about cost per client, I’m sure you’ve heard that on the pod quite a bit. Do you have a perspective on cost per client from a direct response, what would you be willing to pay in order to acquire that matter?

Gyi Tsakalakis:

Yeah, I mean right now we’re not paying anything. So referrals are free.

Conrad Saam:

Well, they’re not free. You should listen to, Gyi, talk about referrals are not free. I’ll send you an episode or many episodes on which he’s ranted about that. But you do good work and you get those referrals in, but you are trying to grow, right? You’ve probably maxed out that referral network.

Gyi Tsakalakis:

Yeah, that’s kind of the problem is the referrals are inconsistent. Some months is good. I gave you that average three to five, but we go through slumps all the time and that’s part of the reason why I’m talking to you is trying to get a sense of what else I should be doing or where I should be spending money, how much money I should be spending. I have no idea really.

Conrad Saam:

So I think when you said we go through slumps, right? Is that what you’re trying to solve for here? So you talked about a 30% growth rate, now you’re talking about slumps. One of the things that you can do from a marketing perspective is you can try and fill in those troughs when things are slow with direct response advertising, as long as how much you’re willing to pay for that matter. That’s something that you can kind of turn on and off. Is that part of your objective here?

Gyi Tsakalakis:

Yeah, I would say that I’m in the, we got to try some new things. We got to throw some money at stuff. I just want to try to make a informed decision about where I should be starting to throw some of that money.

Conrad Saam:

So ultimately I think you need to think through things from a direct response versus a more longer term opportunity. And there’s a variety of different marketing channels that are available to achieve different strategic objectives. And there are things that you can kind of turn on and off. There are at the other end of the extreme, you have something like a brand affinity or a brand building play where you’re trying to get people to remember who you are or even who you are. And if you’re trying to fill in those little troughs, if you can get your 30% revenue or matters, open matters increase by filling in the troughs when you’re otherwise doing nothing. That kind of speaks to a direct response plan, right? Because you can turn it on, you can turn it off as necessary because a 30% growth is, it’s not really that aggressive. And if you’re really just trying to fill in the middle, I think that becomes really, really helpful. Also, in order to do that, in order to do any of this, I think we need to have a really, really good understanding of how your business is getting to you. You mentioned referrals. Can you tell me what happens when someone contacts the firm? What happens?

Gyi Tsakalakis:

Yeah, we’ve got a dedicated intake specialist who’s answering the phones

Conrad Saam:

And what hours do you do overflow?

Gyi Tsakalakis:

No working hours. And we got practice management tools.

Conrad Saam:

You mentioned other offices as well. Do you have any specific location that you want to move into? Do you live 30 minutes down the road? And that would be an easy way to expand your geographic footprint?

Gyi Tsakalakis:

I’d be open to ideas. We think we’re probably under capitalize in Raleigh, but I’d be open. You tell me. Where would you start to be thinking about, or what types of things should I be asking myself if I was just thinking about opening a new office?

Conrad Saam:

I think the question to ask for me first is whether or not you said you’re under capitalizing in Raleigh. I suspect, and I could be wrong. I suspect that your Raleigh office is doing nothing for you and you’re probably much better off having that office in a place where you can actually win. And so I would move further away from the center of Raleigh and find a place where there’s a population center and no lawyers or no law offices where your small number of reviews can actually start generating business. Whereas in Raleigh, at your current pace and given your current size, you will never ever be able to dance in local in that market. You just won’t. It will never happen unless you start faking reviews, which I thoroughly would not recommend.

Gyi Tsakalakis:

But now let’s take a break. So Conrad, I’ve got some questions for you.

Conrad Saam:

Okay. We’re pretty transparent. I’m super happy to share anything you want to know.

Gyi Tsakalakis:

Yeah, so I’ve been talking to a lot of these agencies

Conrad Saam:

And

Gyi Tsakalakis:

The first one that keeps coming up is this idea of are you working with my competition? I’ve got these guys down the street. Talk to me about whether you’re going to work with my local competition.

Conrad Saam:

So we did a conflict check just like a law firm would before I took this call. And that’s part of our process. It does not make sense to me, Paul, for me to be working with your competition because frankly, I would love to take the learnings that I have from them and apply them to you. And I like to develop my agency as if I was the client. And so what I try and do is all of our interactions are exclusive because they should be. That’s how you would want it.

Gyi Tsakalakis:

What do you think about this idea of owning my accounts? Do I have to plug into your system and your ad accounts and your website platform or is that something you can work with? My website.

Conrad Saam:

So in our relationship and with all my clients, nothing is mine. It really is yours and we get to work on it as opposed to something that we created that you don’t get access to. There’s systemic reasons for this. I want our clients to be in control that ensures that over time we are constantly earning your business and the renewals. And so that becomes really important just from a philosophical perspective. But on the flip side, Paul, sometimes we have clients that I want to be able to leave. I’m sure you’re a really nice guy, but every now and then we run across that law firm where we’re like, I’m just done with you and I can’t break up with you. If I have a proprietary platform, I can’t break up with you if doing so means revealing all of my secret sauce about how we run Google ads for you. I can’t break up with you if I am the one who has ownership of your Google business profile. And so it’s one of those, if you love something, set it free kind of thing. I know this is sounding really corny, but if we are caged with each other, we’re not really working together, right? It’s very important to me that you have the control of the relationship more than I do.

Gyi Tsakalakis:

Do you have any case studies or references or how can I know that you’ve ever done this before?

Conrad Saam:

So I can send you a bunch of references and case studies and let me be clear, I would not listen to anything that someone tells you about the case studies and references. Mainly because agencies can cherry pick, right? I can send you to people to talk to about what it’s like to work with us, but when you’re looking at case studies in many cases they are very, very heavily cherrypicked, which is what you should expect. And so I’d just caution you against relying heavily on case studies and more. I would talk to people because every case study is different. There’s always an opportunity to make ourselves look amazing. And what you’re not going to get are the examples. And we don’t always hit it out of the park, but if I show you a case study, it’s going to look like we do.

Gyi Tsakalakis:

That makes sense. And how much of my time is this going to take? I’m going to have to be on calls with you guys every single day. How do I communicate with you? I’m just trying to get a sense of if I need to carve out half of my day every day to talk to you.

Conrad Saam:

Well, let me be clear. The clients with whom we do best, we work pretty tightly with, and it’s the clients that want to go on autopilot, which sounds as an agency owner, really nice. They’re not involved in everything. They don’t understand everything. They don’t want to attend meetings. That sounds like the right idea, but the reality is we don’t perform as well with those clients. We just don’t. I don’t know what’s going on with your firm. I don’t know the ins and outs of what’s important to you or when you hired Max or why intake’s been really bad recently. We just don’t know those things. And likewise, you don’t know what we’re working on. And so trying to connect with people on the regular becomes really, really important. We basically work on a three-part cadence. And so we do monthly reviews, we do quarterly benchmarking and we do annual planning.

And so currently it’s November, we’re right in the middle of annual planning for all of our clients, which is basically the conversation that we had the beginning, where are you trying to go in 2025? And let’s then set quarterly objectives and check-ins to see are we actually getting there? We’re in Q4 right now. So we are in what I call the land, the plane phase where we’re not introducing anything new, we’re just making sure that all of the things that we want to get done for 2024 are going to get done. And so that’s what happens during Q4. But that is kind of the quarterly review. We like to check in with benchmarks on a quarterly basis and see have we achieved some of our major milestones and compare how you’re performing against some of our other clients. And then on a monthly basis you get kind of the standard report and we do a check-in. If you’re not really willing to sit down with us 12 times over a year and I’m going to ask you to be spending upwards of five figures a month, it doesn’t seem like a good investment of your time. So the more time you spend with us, the more effective we will be for you. And if you’re really looking for kind of a set and forget it, we’re probably a bad agency for you, and B, you’re probably not going to get where you want to go because they won’t know.

Gyi Tsakalakis:

Makes a lot of sense. And then in terms of how long this should take before I know this is working or we’re headed in the right direction, is that going to be part of the reporting process? Are you asking me for a 12 month commitment, a multi-year commitment? I’m just trying to get a sense of what it’s going to be like as we get started here. I know a lot of these other agencies are talking about two three year commitments before I’m going to be able to actually have any kind of performance indicators.

Conrad Saam:

Before you have performance indicators for three years, you’re asking two different questions and let me disambiguate those questions. Number one is how long should it take to start showing results? The answer across that is actually very varied. And there are some channels like we talked about, pay-per-click or LSAs where you can start seeing results very quickly. On the flip side, you have other channels in a very competitive, well-run, SEO market, it’s going to take a long time to start seeing some gains. And so it’s important to understand what are the things that we’re actually monitoring to determine how well things are performing. So that becomes really, really important. The other nuance of the question that you asked is what’s our engagement terms? And I’ve been doing this for a very, very long time and what I learned is that given that my clients are entirely in the legal field, I have a two week relationship with you.

Even if our contract says two years, if you want to break the contract, you are going to bolt and what am I going to do? Chase you into court? It just doesn’t seem like a great model. It’s also one of those things where bluntly, as an agency owner, I know that as soon as I’ve got you locked down for three years, my profitability increases by doing as little as I possibly can for you, especially from month six through month 30. So we have a good honeymoon period. And then as your renewal is coming up, I’m going to try and make you convince that we’re actually doing a great job. And so to work really hard for you. And so I feel like the business model associated with those long-term contracts is valuable to the agency in that we can be much more profitable by doing nothing for you. And so I really discourage anyone signing a long-term contract.

Gyi Tsakalakis:

Alright, most important final question. Most important question. What should have I asked you that I didn’t?

Conrad Saam:

We didn’t get into why I do this. And that’s one of those questions that as a lawyer, I hope your ideal client is asking you that. Why did you get into personal injury? What’s your story? I think your best clients as a law firm and as an agency understand your motivation for starting a business and running a business and doing what you do because it’s hard. I mean, you and I are both business owners. It’s hard. I tell people all the time, it’s better than everyone else thinks it is. And it’s worse than everyone thinks it is. So I think understanding why I’ve taken this path with my career and why I’ve worked with lawyers becomes really, really relevant. Because that may be something that you’re like, yes, we’re copacetic and we understand each other and I like them because of this. Or if you don’t get to that, we’re just another vendor. If our reason that the business exists doesn’t resonate with you, we will only ever be a vendor. And I like to kind of move beyond that.

Gyi Tsakalakis:

Awesome. That’s great. So what else do you need from me in order to next steps this? Do you need access to stuff? What can I send you?

Conrad Saam:

So you’re not currently running pay-per-click advertising. In a perfect world, I would have access to your CallRail account, which you are not using. So you are running pretty blind in terms of how things are working. I think the one thing that would be really helpful, and you’re going to have to think about this on your own because you don’t know the answer to this, is how much am I willing to spend to acquire a $10,000 client? Am I willing to spend five grand or am I willing to spend one grand? Right? And what is the appropriate return? Because one of the unfortunate things is you mentioned referrals are free. They’re not exactly free, but you do have to understand that different marketing channels have different fundamental costs. So I tend to think most law firms think about all of their leads as being equal and trying to optimize and only pay for those leads that are really cheap. But when you’re looking to grow, you sometimes have to move outside of the easier to acquire, therefore cheaper to acquire and into the harder to acquire where you’re being competitive. And as we’ve been talking about direct response specifically and filling out those troughs, when you have those slow times, it would be really helpful for us to understand how much you’re willing to pay to acquire that $10,000 client.

Gyi Tsakalakis:

That sounds great. Why don’t we schedule a follow-up call?

Conrad Saam:

Alright, let’s do that. And in the interim, we’re going to get deep into your website, Paul, when we come back in two weeks for the next podcast episode, we’re going to do a tear down of Paul’s site and we’ll tell you exactly what we think.

Gyi Tsakalakis:

Well Conrad, it’s been great getting to know you and meeting you, and I’m really look forward to seeing this website audit that you’re going to put together and we’ll talk in a couple of weeks. And as always, dear lunch, Hour Legal Marketing listeners, if you’d liked t what you heard, please do subscribe. Leave us a review, leave us a comment, get involved in the conversation. We want to hear from you. Until next time, Conrad and Gyi are out of here.

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Conrad Saam:

Listen, I’m in a funk man.

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