The New Year! A look back, a look ahead. Plus, resolutions you can start today that can make you even more prosperous in 2023.
It’s that time of year again; Conrad and Gyi put away the snow-globes and bring back the crystal ball—what can we say, orbs really tie the room together—and make their predictions for 2023. But, what good are prognostications without accountability? First, the gents look back at what they got right, and what they got wrong in 2022. And with a success rate about as good as Nostradamus, without all the weird murkiness, they give it another go, gazing deep into the future to tell you what you can expect for 2023.
And then, let’s talk about the one thing everyone loves committing to: New Year’s Resolutions. The guys share their personal resolutions for 2023, and then, out of the kindness of their hearts, tell you yours too. Be inspired and equipped to make your practice thrive in 2023.
- Layoffs in legal tech and digital marketing.
- CallRail’s new2023 outlook for legal marketing is available now.
- And Gyi’s new article, “My First ABA Techshow,” is online.
Special thanks to our
sponsors , , and .
Gyi Tsakalakis: Before we get started, we want to thank our sponsors, Posh Virtual Receptionist, Lawyaw and Nota. Conrad, what year is it? I feel like I’m having déjà vu.
Conrad Saam: You’re having déjà vu in that Michigan just lost again in the college playoffs?
Gyi Tsakalakis: Yes. And for our dear listeners who can’t stand Conrad and Gyi talking about college football in Michigan. Congratulations, our season is over.
Conrad Saam: There’s no more college football talk.
Gyi Tsakalakis: Having said that, I do want to call out Mr. Todd Forweir, our big fan of the pod and also a former player for TCU.
Conrad Saam: Congrats, Todd. And some congrats and thank you to Ben Sessions for his Georgia dogs narrowly escaping Ohio State so that we don’t have to listen to them talk about how they’re going to National Championship. Go dogs.
Gyi Tsakalakis: And now nine months free of football talk brought to you by Lunch Hour Legal Marketing. But seriously though, what are we talking about today, Conrad?
Conrad Saam: All right. Great show as always lined up for you. This is our most popular show typically, the kickoff for the year. We are of course, starting with a news as always. We’re going into Conrad’s Crystal Ball.
Gyi Tsakalakis: Which is not your crystal ball because of your lack of hair. Correct?
Conrad Saam: Wow. Wow, follicly challenged now.
Gyi Tsakalakis: Well, you’re always making the hair joke so I figure I could do for one.
Conrad Saam: I always try and preempt the hair jokes because they always come, and now, my kids know that so they try and get ahead of me. So I was not — I did not see your hair gel coming? Conrad’s Crystal Ball following the news and we’re going into our New Year’s resolution. So we’re going to give you New Year’s resolutions for ourselves. We’re going to share those. We are going to give you New Year’s resolutions that we think you should adopt to market your practice. And finally, we’re going to show some resolutions for this Lunch Hour Legal Marketing podcast.
Gyi Tsakalakis: New Year, same music, roll it Lockwood.
Male: Welcome to Lunch Hour Legal Marketing. Teaching you how to promote, market, and make fat stacks for your legal practice, here on Legal Talk Network.
Gyi Tsakalakis: Welcome to Lunch Hour Legal Marketing and happy New Year everybody. Let’s do some news.
Conrad Saam: All right, starting off the news. There’s lots of layoffs going on. What a terrible way to start 2023. Many of you who spent a lot of time on the socials, so lots and lots of people looking for gigs after Thanksgiving, and that has continued. That is I think, Nikki Black did a segment on layoffs in Legal Tech. There are layoffs in Legal. There are layoffs in Tech. There are layoffs in Legal Tech. There are layoffs in digital marketing, right? So, very range turnaround from a macroeconomic perspective which is going to impact all of you, right? CallRail. CallRail drop, we kind of flush out of this before, but I believe it was yesterday. CallRail dropped their 2023 marketing outlook for law firms. This is a great way for you to a) get in their database if you would like it and b) get some really interesting tidbits coming out of CallRail. The one piece of what we may do more on this later, but the one thing that I found fascinating key, 36% of law firms are still manually report tracking metrics with Excel.
Gyi Tsakalakis: And you found that fascinating because they use Excel versus like a pen and paper?
Conrad Saam: Wow. Wow. Okay, 2023 New Year’s cynicism brought to you by Gyi at — I think we’re three minutes into the recording.
Gyi Tsakalakis: It’s my New Year’s resolution. Be more cynical on the show.
Conrad Saam: Wow. Okay. And what’s going on with Techshow, Gyi?
Gyi Tsakalakis: Techshow. Well, I am grateful that I had the opportunity to publish in Law Practice Magazine this January issue. Check out my reminiscences of my first day via Techshow. So it’s getting nostalgic and please do come to Techshow. Registration is open, and I hope to see you there in Chicago in March.
Conrad Saam: Conrad and Gyi in real time. Let’s take a quick break.
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Conrad Saam: As important for all prognosticators, we want to go back. Look back to the past when we prognosticated about what was going to happen in 2022. Basically, how did we do? Okay. The first thing, and I’m going to read this verbatim from the show. Gyi and I both listen to last year’s prognostication show, and I’m going to read verbatim some content that he and I both wrote down to highlight during the show, which was my conversation around myriad exogenous macroeconomic factors that are really going to impact the economy as a whole. All right.
Gyi Tsakalakis: Your MBA is showing.
Conrad Saam: That is my MBA as well as studying for the SAT vocab section with my son coming into Lunch Hour Legal Marketing. Now, so the things we talked about was a pre-election cycle gong show, right? So the craziness of the election cycle impacting things.
Gyi Tsakalakis: Yeah. You know what? Well, hold on, before you move on to that, I listened to a case peer webinar with Glen Lerner who’s a prominent national PI brand. At this point, one of the largest in the country and you know one of the things that it was intuitive for him but people don’t realize especially if you’re like a TV or radio buyer, the election cycle pushes out a lot of the other advertising opportunities and so that was an interesting one that I think that again, where we’ll see what 2023 brings politically. But it’s something to be mindful of, and we talked about this with people to do media buys all the time as you’ve got to be mindful about what’s going on in the world and especially as it relates to politics especially when it comes to local, offline, TV, radio, media based because politics will push it out.
Conrad Saam: Yeah. I mean the fluidity of your advertising spend becomes massively, massively important when you have these major cycles, right? And then there’s all the – again, exogenous variables having an impact on the legal marketing world. That is an obvious one. Other thing that we got right was inflation, right? We talked about inflation being a big deal this year and during the year, you know Gyi, we talked about lawyers failing to adjust their prices which essentially means you are discounting your services because you are not adjusting for inflation. I think we talked about that towards the end of the year. If you have not adjusted your prices by now, for 2023, it’s kind of like your last option to do it, right? So, it now or otherwise, it just looks weird. That kind of the year cycle turnover, great time to adjust pricing. We also talked about interest rates which we got correct and COVID. We were kind of wrong on this. We didn’t really know what was going to happen with COVID. It seems to have taken a bit of a — it’s kind of faded somewhat into the background.
Gyi Tsakalakis: Yeah. I think we were — again, still very uncertain times and very grateful that we haven’t experienced some of the surging that went on early on. It’s particularly is when there were lockdowns and people were in driving we know that we talk about how that had a major impact on motor vehicle accidents, lawyers, so far so good, and hopefully, knock on my fake wood table that we don’t see a surgeon in 23.
Conrad Saam: Okay. Gyi, you had two predictions. Specifically, one around bankruptcy. How did that turn out?
Gyi Tsakalakis: Well, I said boom and there wasn’t really a boom, but there was a little uptick. I think it’s 6 or 7% bankruptcy filing increases, so it can be not right but wrong.
Conrad Saam: And the other one that you got really right was big firms moving into new markets. What were we talking about here and what happened?
Gyi Tsakalakis: We are going to see more of this. This is the same thing that’s going on in other sectors. We talked about in Legal Tech sector. These firms they’ve got to be growing. And so how do you grow when you’re the market leader in your saturated market, you find a new market and we’re seeing that across the board. You can go search for lawyer. You’ll see Google business profile as this has become a big thing. You see it in the billboard game. That’s a sign of things to come, and it’s very interesting that a lot of these big firms who are mentoring other firms in those markets. They’re coming to eat your lunch folks, so get ready for them.
Conrad Saam: Because they’re so well run as a business, right? And I think that’s been a major shift this year is maybe not — actually, I think it was an explosion this year of the lawyer turned CEO and I will be seeing this over and over and over again. All right. Looking forward man, we are going to give three predictions each.
Gyi Tsakalakis: Crystal ball time.
Conrad Saam: Crystal ball let us hear it. That’s what you’re here for.
Gyi Tsakalakis: Does that a crystal ball sounds like?
Conrad Saam: It is. I’m gently touching the crystal ball looking into the future.
Gyi Tsakalakis: Look at the crystal ball.
Conrad Saam: What I’m looking at here, Gyi is I believe you’re going to see a lot of in-house, technical marketing being added to law firms in 2023. We are seeing this more and more, and I think it actually combines so now is a great time to do this and what Gyi and I don’t want you to do this because we want you to spend that salary on people like us.
Gyi Tsakalakis: Oh contrary. I want you. I want you to have.
Conrad Saam: Hold on. Let me be really clear what Gyi means. Gyi would like you to have a competent in-house legal marketing person to work with, and that I think is part of the challenge. I think that is the thing that’s hard to get right all the time. The incompetent ones make our fines and nightmare, right? But working with an agency, working with someone in-house, we actually do our best work for those firms. I agree with you. I think there is often a miss and who is hired? Let’s leave it at that.
Gyi Tsakalakis: Yeah. I think that’s there’s a lot of truth to that. But yeah, I was just recently, we talked about this all the time. I know you deal with this all the time too. It was like, do I do it in-house or do I do it myself? Do I hire an agency? Obviously, we’re super biased, but the answer is a little mix of both and not everybody’s mixes the same, but I’ll tell you, there is a huge advantage especially from in my opinion content development standpoint to having someone in the office that knows the firm, knows what’s going on, knows what cases are in play, knows what issues the firm is dealing with because that all creates valuable content for the firm.
Conrad Saam: And I will take that one step further on that content side. A localized person who can build out localized content that is not specific to the top 10 things you should do after hit by a semi-truck. That is something that agencies really will struggle to do. What else do you see in the future Gyi?
Gyi Tsakalakis: What do I see in the future? Speaking of this this guy, I guess I didn’t and so we asked. Let me get my ball going on here. Looking in, I see more video which is kind of a dovetail of what we were just talking about, but you know, social is huge. It’s eating a lot of other channels and video content on social. That’s the game. You know, you can do some images. There’s obviously some text posts and things like that, but short form video on LinkedIn for professional networking. Obviously, we’ve talked about Tiktok. I think we’re going to see a lot more of that, and I think we’re going to start seeing that that’s the content that’s producing engagement, that’s producing building brand, that’s generating demand, right? So I expect to see more video.
Conrad Saam: Okay. Let me go back to mine. It was interesting that you talked about more video from a content perspective, diversifying content mediums. I think we’re also going to see a diversification in advertising. It was interesting there was a study that just hit the waves. Google is now less than 50%, for the first time in a very long time, less than 50% of advertising online spend is done through Google, right? And interesting, I mentioned the CallRail study. Interestingly, not surprising to me, 97% of law firm said pay-per-click is too expensive, right?
So it’s an expensive channel and so I see a diversification of advertising venues beyond the Google. And I don’t necessarily see this moving back to the pre-Google things of massive Ad spends on for example directories which are struggling with changes in the surfs to keep their traffic numbers where they used to be. And so, I think there is going to be a lot of diversification from an advertising perspective, and some of that diversification, some that spend can be pushing that video content out there. So it’s not just hitting the people that you know. It’s hitting people that you want to know. Back to you. I’m handing the ball back to you Mr. Tsakalakis.
Gyi Tsakalakis: Looking deep into it. What do I see? I see more community fragmentation.
Conrad Saam: Wow.
Gyi Tsakalakis: So it goes back to the social stuff. The open feed whether it’s the fire hose on Twitter or whatever you call what’s on Facebook or what’s going on in Mastodon. There’s more fragmentation in the communities.
So think private Facebook groups. You know, we’ve talked about maximum lawyer a lot. They’ve got a great private community. There are private communities that I’m a member of on Slack. I’m starting to see more of that, and those are growing even beyond just like the B2B referral stuff. We’ve talked about Levinson and Stefani and Chicagoland Food, private groups. You’re seeing more of that, because we’re entering this phase of social where people want the filter. They don’t want the raw feed. They want to connect more intimately as intimately as you can be on social media, but I’m seeing more private community fragmentation.
Conrad Saam: Okay. I like this. This is some good MBA words in here.
Gyi Tsakalakis: I don’t even have an MBA. It is almost — you must be rubbing off on me.
Conrad Saam: You kind of do by having owned a business for as long as you have owned a business you now have an MBA. (00:15:51) clarity from the Rustein which is called management
Gyi Tsakalakis: Right.
Conrad Saam: All right. Looking back to my crystal ball, I am seeing a woman. I’m seeing my conversations with Jennifer Gore-Cuthbert and in the future. And the reason I call Jennifer out, I’ve gotten to know her over 2022. And when we were first talking, a lot of our conversations were around Google and focusing on Google and her mindset has very much shifted. If you are a fan of reading, read Blue Ocean Strategy. It’s talking about moving away from the fight that everyone else is fighting and finding new opportunities. I see opportunities.
You know, Jennifer, we talked about this in a previous segment very recently about law firms becoming media companies. Jennifer and we just talked about video content. I think that’s very real. You’ve heard me talk in 2022 about dark social that is going to continue to be a big opportunity as a non-Google marketing opportunity. And you mentioned this a little bit building brand.
I think there is a massive opportunity in 2023 and beyond, to build affinity for the brand, not just awareness of the brand but to build affinity for the brand. And I would love to see more and more law firms moving beyond that kind of, I don’t want to say hate it but like there’s a distrust among the general populace about lawyers and there are many firms who are flipping that narrative on its head, and actually creating not just awareness, but affinity for the brand, by doing more for their community. And so, I like this kind of what are the things that we’re doing that no one else is doing because there’s a lot of opportunity there and my conversations with Jennifer really reflected that. Okay. Last one, hit me.
Gyi Tsakalakis: More personalization. And when I say that, you know, we say everything’s personalization, personalized ads, yada-yada-yada. I’m not talking about that. I’m talking about delivering experiences to both potential clients and former clients that are custom to their particular experience, for lack of a better word situation. And what it requires is a unification of your client data with your marketing approach. And so, you might send an email. The simplest version is like email segmentation, right? You send an email, that’s specific to somebody that had some kind of experience with your firm but it goes beyond that there’s a data infrastructure change that has to happen because in order to actually deliver a more customized experience, you have to have some more datapoints to be able to actually know how they found you and what their experience was working with you throughout the process.
If you’re already starting to see that more and you talk about it with client satisfaction feedback, surveys and messaging that comes out following those kinds of surveys, but I think you’re going to see a lot — that’s going to be coming into legal and professional services more generally. You know, e-commerce has always done this, right? They give you a customized experience based on prior buying habits, things you’ve clicked on in their site. I think you’re going to start to see that more in the professional services category.
Conrad Saam: I love this. I’m frantically walking through Facebook to try and find the example here and I’m failing to find in real time, so I’ll stop trying. But our friend, we talk maybe too much about rookie to Johnny but she posted recently about how her firm, you will get things that are very personal to you like completely out of the blue that have nothing to do with your case or your matter, but like it’s something that you’re interested and they really look for that and delivering those like really personal gifts. And I’ll use Techshow as an example. I remember I did a talk at the most previous Techshow and it was followed up by a — not just a it was a handwritten thank-you card and it included a gift certificate to Dunkin Donuts because my co-presenter and I had been talking about how much I love Dunkin Donuts.
And the worst thing about, I love living in Seattle, no Dunkin Donuts in Seattle. I can find a Dunkin Donuts in almost any airport except Seattle and I know where they all are and so she sent me a thank you along with that Dunkin Donuts card which is —
Gyi Tsakalakis: And it sticks with you, right? I will never forget that.
Conrad Saam: Right.
Gyi Tsakalakis: I will never forget that.
Conrad Saam: Powerful stuff, more powerful than 10,000 ad impressions.
Gyi Tsakalakis: Yeah. I like I like seeing this stuff.
Conrad Saam: You know what? I think I’d shared this before for our holiday gifts. We did customized stationary thank you cards for each of our clients. So we put their logo on stationary and a thank you and their name within the thank you card but like it was that one on one as opposed to sending a coffee cup with Mockingbird logo on it.
Gyi Tsakalakis: Which they already have for free.
Conrad Saam: Which they already have. And it’s probably just going to go to your spouse, right? And quickly forgotten. All right. So that is the future. I think now is the time to take a break on the other side of the break. We are going to talk about our New Year’s resolutions for ourselves for you, dear listener, and for the show overall.
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Conrad Saam: Listeners, please do remember to check our YouTube channel out, our now TikTok channel as well as subscribe to us on your favorite podcast subscribing mechanism. We appreciate you and if you are enjoying Lunch Hour Legal Marketing, please do leave us a review. Hope to hear from you all.
Gyi Tsakalakis: All right. It’s 2023. Conrad, what do you think about New Year’s resolutions? Do you got New Year’s resolutions?
Conrad Saam: I think New Year’s resolutions are super important. You know, this is the time, especially for business, this is, you can call their New Year’s resolution or you can call it a strategic annual plan, but knowing where you want to go, it’s great. It’s great for businesses. It’s great for you personally. I think they’re great. I really do like New Year’s resolutions, and I actually write mine down and keep them in my wallet and I replace it every year.
Gyi Tsakalakis: Well, I’m inspired. I came in as I promise to be a little more cynical this year and I was little cynical on the whole resolution thing. I like to think of it more as habit-forming but certainly reflecting and planning very, very important, but for the sake of this episode, let’s talk resolutions. Conrad, do you have any personal New Year’s resolutions?
Conrad Saam: Yeah. This is a middle-aged man New Year’s resolution. Number one, I’m going to do one needed project on my house a month, and it goes for everything from replacing drywall to, my greenhouse needs a new floor, and I’m going to do those things. So but one of my right and so it’s manageable and I’ve got a list of 12 things that I need to do to my house over the next year, sitting my wallet and that’s going to happen.
Gyi Tsakalakis: Okay. That is imposed —
Conrad Saam: I was that for mundane.
Gyi Tsakalakis: Well, mine is even more mundane because I feel like this is one of those resolutions that just floats around the internet. I’m trying to do a book a week, 52 books in 23. You know, and this goes to the point about resolution. I had this resolution last year. I came up short, but you know now I want to get closer so I think I was in the finish of it’s like 20 some books last year, so about half, so double up. Put it on the board 52 books, book a week and check in. And by the way listeners, if you have resolutions, hashtag LHLM so we’d love to hear your resolutions for the year. Conrad, what other resolutions do you have for our listeners?
Conrad Saam: Okay. So, in our show notes we’ve added we wanted to make this tactical for you, and so we have made one New Year’s resolution on behalf of our listeners. This is basically us telling you what we think your New Year’s resolution should be for 2023. I think you should — and then it goes semantically into everything that we’ve talked about during the show. I think you should commit to and explore and evaluate one non-Google marketing channel for your firm throughout the entire year. So it’s not a flash in the pan. It’s not we are going to look at this for six weeks and see how it works. I’m going to commit to doing something outside of the typical, spend more money on pay-per-click or fight the SEO wars or fake my locations on Google my business, something outside of those boxes to market your firm and I want you to commit to it for a year because it’s most of the things where there’s opportunity, it takes a year, right?
And so, I’m imploring you, beseeching you, requesting, recommending that you try something like that. Gyi, what about yourself? What do you think listeners should be doing?
Gyi Tsakalakis: Well, same thing and I gave mine away earlier as well, but I’m going to suggest that you do one short video on social media per day. Just short, one day. You can batch it, right? You want to do an hour of recording and dice them up so that you’re releasing one a day that I think that can work, but one social media post per day. Pick your favorite social media platform, if you only want to do one, otherwise I would think LinkedIn. I’m still on the fence about this going all on TikTok because of some of the privacy stuff, but one social media post a day, real short. Share something you learned. Make a connection with somebody. Share something that you’re doing at your practice. I can’t tell you how valuable it is in terms of keeping and staying top of mind, building demand for your services and driving engagement, and you’ll see but to take signs Conrad mentioned some of the stuff too. It does take a little time, but if you do it, if you’re consistent with it, you’ll start to see it grow.
Conrad Saam: 2023 might be the year of flywheel marketing where you guys got to get — how is that for a nice title for this show. Let me ask a question you, Gyi, a clarifying question. You talked about posting one a day. Could that also include commenting, connecting with or reaching out to someone or is it the post side of this?
Gyi Tsakalakis: Yeah. I agree — so definitely you should be. In fact, you should be commenting and engaging more than you’re actually posting, but I think there’s a reticence — to me again, it goes back to the same thing. It’s the habit. Get in the habit of having something going out once a day because you get busy, you’re in trial, you’re in court, you’ve got a million other things. Some of you are raising kids and trying to run a law firm and million other things have finding time for yourself. Commit to one thing a day and if you’re going to prioritize something like I say a short form social video. You don’t have to write a blog post. You don’t have to do some kind of fancy automation. One short video post a day, top of mind awareness, engagements, affinity. No better way to drive affinity than through video and it takes some practice and it’s going to take some time, but that’s what I would start. Those are the seeds out I’ve been planting if you haven’t done so already.
Conrad Saam: Okay.
Gyi Tsakalakis: And Conrad, what are your resolutions for Lunch Hour Legal Marketing in 23.
Conrad Saam: I would like, and this is a deliberately fuzzy goal for the podcast. I would like to see us increase the frequency of our content and as we were talking about this prior to the show, we could move from a once every other week to once a week. That’s certainly a way to do that as a podcast, but we’ve also already taken steps to increase the frequency with which content is published by moving beyond the podcast format. And so more stuff coming out of us on YouTube, TikTok wherever else that may work for us and it’s thematically goes to everything that I’ve been talking about for lawyers, right? So building content, repurposing it, reformatting it. I think there’s an opportunity for us to increase frequency for the show. Not just by going from me twice a month to four times a month, but to actually change it up. So we’re publishing out on more different platforms, and it’s the same thing we’ve been telling you guys you for your law firm for the podcast.
Gyi Tsakalakis: I like yours better than mine.
Conrad Saam: Why?
Gyi Tsakalakis: There’s just a better goal. You have a smarter goal. Boring podcast spec metric with a subscriber growth. I’m very grateful to all of our listeners and subscribers. We grew the show by 13% this year. Let’s go for 20% in 2023. We should go for 23%. 23% in 23.
Conrad Saam: Wow. I like where you’re going.
Gyi Tsakalakis: There it is on the board. You can hold us accountable. If we don’t do that you can hashtag those that we failed. See, force cynicism.
Conrad Saam: Brought to you by Gyi Tsakalakis.
Gyi Tsakalakis: Yes. Well, happy New Year, Conrad. Happy New Year, listeners. We really do appreciate you. If you just landed on this side of the blue or saw us on YouTube, please do subscribe and leave us a review. We’d love to hear from you. Thank you so much. Have a wonderful, prosperous 2023 until next time. Conrad and Gyi at Lunch Hour Legal Marketing.
Male: Thank you for listening to Lunch Hour Legal Marketing. If you would like more information about what you heard today, please visit legaltalknetwork.com. Subscribe via Apple podcast and RSS. Follow Legal Talk Network on Twitter, Facebook, LinkedIn and Instagram.
Conrad Saam: Wish me luck but I need a break. I’m sorry. I get it my daughter is going buckers. I apologized. I would not lack amount but give me one second. Sorry.
Gyi Tsakalakis: Great outtake clip here.
Conrad Saam: I apologize. That sucks. I don’t think dog is inside when we record but they’ve had this diarrhea.
Gyi Tsakalakis: What are your dog’s names?
Conrad Saam: I have Ruca and Basil.
Gyi Tsakalakis: And they both have explosive diarrhea?
Conrad Saam: Yeah. It’s awesome.