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Featured Guests
Jay Wallus

Jay Wallus, along with his wife Maggie, is the co-owner of Thank Yous Delivered, a company that offers customized...

Maggie Wallus

Maggie Wallus, along with her husband Jay, is the co-owner of Thank Yous Delivered, a company that offers customized...

Your Host
Jared Correia

Jared D. Correia, Esq. is the CEO of Red Cave Law Firm Consulting, which offers subscription-based law firm business...

Episode Notes

Nurturing referral sources is an extremely effective way to grow a business, but what does that look like for lawyers? From simple thank-you notes to thoughtful promotional items, Jared Correia talks with Jay and Maggie Wallus about how they leverage the power of gratitude to help lawyers continue relationships with clients and generate new business opportunities.

Jay and Maggie Wallus are co-owners of Thank Yous Delivered, based in Danvers, Massachusetts.

Special thanks to our sponsors ScorpionNexaTimeSolv, and Abby Connect.

Transcript

The Legal Toolkit

The Power of the Thank-You How to Nurture Referral Relationships for Your Law Firm

02/04/2020

 

[Music]

 

Intro: Welcome to Legal Toolkit bringing you the latest legal trends and business initiatives to help you manage your law firm with your host Jared Correia. You are listening to Legal Talk Network.

 

[Music]

 

Jared Correia: Welcome to another episode of the award-winning Legal Toolkit podcast, here on the Legal Talk Network.

 

If you are looking for a DVD copy of ‘Back to the Future’, the trilogy with outtakes, I’m your hookup.

 

If you’re a returning listener, welcome back. If you’re a first-time listener, hopefully you’ll become a longtime listener, and if you’re Taylor Swift, you’re probably writing a song about a jilted ex-lover right now.

 

As always, I’m your show host, Jared Correia, and in addition to casting this pod I’m the CEO of Red Cave Law Firm Consulting, which offers subscription-based law practice management consulting services for law firms, Bar associations and legal vendors. Check us out at redcavelegal.com.

 

I am also the COO of Gideon Software, Inc., which offers chatbots, a first-to-market chatbot builder and predictive analytics created specifically for law firms. Find out more at www.gideon.legal.

 

You can also listen to my other, other podcast; The Lobby List, a family travel show I host with my dear wife, Jessica, on iTunes. Subscribe, rate and comment, that’s a good one too.

 

But, here, on The Legal Toolkit, we provide you a new tool each episode to add to your own legal toolkit, so your practices will become more-and-more like best practices.

 

In this episode, we’re going to talk about How to Effectively Nurture Referral Relationships by Leveraging the Power of the Thank-You, ah, the simple thank you.

 

But, before I introduce today’s guest, let’s take a moment to thank our sponsors.

 

Abby Connect has delivered premium live receptionists and answering services to lawyers since 2006. You can try them out for free at abbyconnect.com.

 

Scorpion crushes the standard for law firm online marketing with proven campaign strategies to get attorneys better cases from the Internet. Partner with Scorpion to get an award-winning website and ROI positive marketing programs today. Visit scorpionlegal.com/podcast.

 

Nexa, formerly known as Answer 1, is a leading virtual receptionist and answering service provider for law firms. Learn more by giving them a call at 800-267-9371 or online at www.nexa.com.

 

TimeSolv is the number one web-based time and billing software for lawyers, providing solutions since 1999. TimeSolv provides the most comprehensive billing features for law firms big and small, www.timesolv.com.

 

All right, my guests today are Jay and Maggie Wallus, Co-owners of Thank Yous Delivered, a company that offers customized marketing programs for law firms.

 

Jay and Maggie are actually my neighbors, this is true, and they live near one of the finest ice-cream shops in town, which we’ll talk a little bit more about in a second.

 

So, Jay and Maggie, welcome to the big show, the Legal Toolkit podcast.

 

Maggie Wallus: Thank you Jared.

 

Jared Correia: Jay is in his office/shed right now, I’m sure, and he’s laying low until I started asking him some questions, and here’s the first one. So you guys live next to a place called Cherry Hill Creamery, which is an ice-cream shop down the street from me. Fantastic, fantastic ice-cream place. I would be there every day if I could.

 

So Jay, can I ask you, what is your favorite flavor at Cherry Hill for ice-cream or frozen yogurt, if that’s your persuasion?

 

Jay Wallus: My favorite flavor by far as they say in Boston is Chocolate Chip. I like it in a cup with sprinkles on the top. So that’s my favorite. I don’t like the whole cone and the stuff dripping down the sides and then you’re going to lick the cone and do the whole deal there, so.

 

Jared Correia: That’s classy, you don’t want to get chocolate ice-cream on your Ascot, right?

 

Jay Wallus: Right, exactly.

 

Jared Correia: I got you. Maggie, how about you?

 

Maggie Wallus: I love the M&M ice-cream in a sugar cone.

 

Jared Correia: Oh nice. All right, I like that, and let me also volunteer that the Heath Bar Frozen Yogurt is my favorite ice-cream/frozen yogurt at Cherry Hill Creamery. So, Cherry Hill Creamery, set me up with some gift certificates.

 

Jay Wallus: There you go.

 

Jared Correia: All right, let’s get down to and let’s talk about what people want to hear lawyer stuff. So lawyers, as we know are not particularly great at nurturing referral relationships. So, Jay, can you talk about why that might be?

 

Jay Wallus: Absolutely Jared, I’d be happy to. I’ve met quite a few in my sales career and they are trained and I do mean trained to look at situations through 17 different views to kind of figure an argument on one side versus another side.

 

(00:05:02)

 

But they are not trained in the emotional end of a transaction or actually building a relationship. It’s more about how can I help my client win, it’s not so much about first of all I have a client, wow, what a thing and now how do I keep in touch with them.

 

So they’ve never really formally been shown and it’s nothing elaborate to actually appreciate a client or anything like that. It’s just that they’ve been trained to — you’ll hear about these rainmakers, they will go out and they’ll find people, they’ll bring them into the firm and they’ll work on them by themselves or they will actually pass them off to someone in the firm.

 

But after that, I found practically no one follows through with some sort of appreciation, very, very few do based on my experience.

 

Jared Correia: And I think that’s true. I think that’s based on my experience also, and you’re right like lawyers learn to practice law, they don’t necessarily learn to manage a business and that includes marketing, so I think you’re right about that. But this is not solely about just referral sources and nurturing those like lawyers also do a poor job of staying in touch with the existing and former clients or just something that you referenced, Jay.

 

So can thanking those folks as well generate more business and/or better client relationships, which is a good thing? So Maggie, can you speak to this?

 

Maggie Wallus: Sure. It’s very emotional so you get emotional versus logical and most people aren’t emotional and they justify with logic.

 

Jared Correia: No, I think that’s so true like especially with lawyers who are just like the emotional intelligence is often like relatively low in terms of how they deal with clients and referral sources. Jay, do you want to add anything to that?

 

Jay Wallus: Sure. One of the best examples that I can think of Jared is the dreaded car salesperson. So there’s a gentleman by the name of Joe Girardi and he’s actually in the Guinness Book of World Records for the number one car salesman in the entire world.

 

Jared Correia: This is not the manager, the former manager of the Yankees?

 

Jay Wallus: No, no.

 

Jared Correia: Interesting, all right.

 

Jay Wallus: So, I am sorry, Joe Girard, I put an extra I.

 

Jared Correia: Oh got you.

 

Jay Wallus: So Joe did a very, very simple thing. When people bought a car he sent them a thank you note and then often he sent out cards just letting them know that he was thinking of them. So it was so uncommon for a car salesperson to actually send out a thank you but then to follow up in six months to say, I appreciate you doing business with me, if there is anything else that you need please give me a call.

 

It was unheard of in the industry and all of a sudden it became you have to do business with Joe. Joe’s the guy because he appreciates everyone and he’s actually in the Guinness Book of World Records for that. He never told him about a big sales event or special coming in for Washington’s Birthday, he just let them know that he appreciated them as simple as a handwritten thank you note that went out got him to the number-one salesperson in the Guinness Book of World Records for selling automobiles. Absolutely crazy.

 

Jared Correia: Anytime you can look at the Guinness Book of World Records to me is a win.

 

Jay Wallus: Absolutely.

 

Jared Correia: So there is another opportunity to check it out, but it’s interesting you bring up this idea of like the car salesman because lawyers don’t like to be viewed that way, like when I talk to lawyers about marketing, they’re like, well, I don’t want to sell stuff because I don’t want to be viewed as a — like a used car salesman, but lawyers are selling stuff all the time.

 

So, Maggie, do you ever run into objections from lawyers who don’t want to sell things or don’t want to be perceived as selling things and how do you get around that?

 

Maggie Wallus: We really haven’t had that many. There is a typical niche of people that it attracts the vehicles but their personality, the cards go with most personalities, so that personality tends to like it right away. If nobody has really said, no, we didn’t like it.

 

Jared Correia: Got you, yes, so I think — I think in terms of like sales lawyers need to be caught a little bit but maybe you just got the good ones right off the bat, which is great. So, Jay, why do you think it’s important for small business owners including owners of small law firm side, so I have put them in that class as well to show appreciation for customers and business sources.

 

Like you’ve told me before this notion that you have like appreciation beats promotion, and I think most people focus on promotion. So, why is that wrong in some cases and why is it important to put appreciation first?

 

Jay Wallus: Yes, so actually the founder of the program called SendOutCards by the name of Kody Bateman, he actually coined that phrase “Appreciation beats self-promotion every time”.

 

Jared Correia: Oh, let’s definitely give him credit where it’s due.

 

Jay Wallus: Absolutely, yeah, so he was the one who came up with it, but one of the major things is when you’re appreciating someone there’s no selling connotation involved, the nice part is to be grateful for the business and be sincere when you deliver that, not hopefully I get something back.

 

(00:10:04)

 

You basically send it out as I appreciate you coming in and meet with me. I know you had a hard time parking in Boston, then you paid $45 to park in the lot and you came all the way up the lobby, I know it meant a lot to you. Thank you so much for spending time with us.

 

When you send out something like that, there’s no pitch, there’s no — if you’re ready to give your deposit now or your retainer now, there’s no pitch to it. The appreciation takes the edge off of being a salesperson which is why most of the attorneys that we meet with, they don’t consider it selling, they just have to appreciate someone.

 

So we take the selling edge off, even though, yes, attorneys are absolutely positively salespeople, even though they don’t like it.

 

Jared Correia: And I think that’s a good way to describe it. So what you’re talking about is like saying thank you for the sake of saying thank you.

 

Jay Wallus: Yes.

 

Jared Correia: And doing it in like an obviously sincere way, where you’re not just sending like a blank shoebox greeting, you are actually putting some thought into the response you make?

 

Jay Wallus: Correct. Yes, very, very important, because they need a lawyer for something happened, right, or something is coming up. So there’s an emotional justification where people are actually — if anyone’s been through a divorce, so I’m listening to this. They know it’s quite an emotional thing. That if someone comes in and basically shares the whole life with the attorney there’s a big let’s say emotional transaction that went on between the two of them, it’s always the right thing and we’re firm believers in that, do the next right thing by the client and everything else always takes care of itself.

 

So, it’s very, very important and it’s a — some people say, wow, that makes a lot of sense to me. I just never thought to actually take the time to sit down and do it.

 

Jared Correia: Well, I think that’s the thing, like I — I think most busy people which I would include lawyers in that number would say something like, I don’t have the time to do that, but taking the time is important, to thank you.

 

So, Maggie, when you work with attorneys and you try to get them to take the time to be like really responsive about either communicating with clients or referral sources like, how do you get folks to do that?

 

Maggie Wallus: Well, a lot of times they’ll say to us, oh, I’ve been meaning to do this for years, and they do, they all say the same thing and we’re like, well, how would you like a done-for-you program, and they’re like, well, that makes sense. And then we kind of show them the price of what it cost a year compared to just getting one loan per lawyer that they’re already doing business, how easy that works out.

 

Jared Correia: Yes, you’re talking about in context of like real estate deals but broadly speaking as well like finding the time to do this is valuable and the time you put in is important as well.

 

Jay Wallus: Yeah, Jared, could I add one thing to that?

 

Jared Correia: Go ahead, go ahead, certainly.

 

Jay Wallus: Yeah, so one of the most important things for the attorneys to understand is if they’ve ever read a book, ‘The E-Myth’ by Michael Gerber?

 

Jared Correia: Right, some have, believe it or not.

 

Jay Wallus: Absolutely positively. So he is a firm believer of working on your business and not in it and many attorneys and we do deal with a lot, we go in to have a brief conversation and there’s a conference call going on and there is four files on the desk and there’s a paralegal sitting beside them and they are truly in it. I mean they’re grinding it out. They are their brain power, emailing, doing everything needs to do, and to step out of that and say rather than be in it to sit, just like Michael Gerber said, really take the time to work on it and to really think about how do I bring more of those clients in, because without the client there really isn’t a lot of business and it’s so easy to get sidetracked.

 

So it’s a — that’s a phenomenal book, ‘The E-Myth’ by Michael Gerber, and I can recommend it highly to anyone, I probably read it five times, it’s just a fascinating idea.

 

Jared Correia: That’s it?

 

Jay Wallus: Yeah, yeah.

 

Jared Correia: Just five?

 

Jay Wallus: I just love it, yeah. It is a very good idea. It’s just such a simple message and it’s delivered in such a whimsical yet logical way, it’s phenomenal.

 

Jared Correia: All right! So this is a good point to break. I think we’ve been talking about appreciation, so let’s discuss some law firm products that you’ll be able to appreciate. To that end, here are some of the things that a reasonable lawyer might consider purchasing along with an ill-fitting, slightly used Nudie suit.

 

[Music]

 

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[Music]

 

(00:15:00)

 

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[Music]

 

Jared Correia: Thanks for hanging in. Now that I’ve located my Nehru jacket, let’s get back to our conversation with Jay and Maggie Wallus of Thank Yous Delivered. We are talking about how to properly thank your law firm referral sources.

 

So, you guys run a business wherein you deliver like personalized cards for lawyers to their best clients and referral sources. So clearly you both agree that physical thank you items are compelling.

 

So, Jay, why do you think it is that something like a physical item, thanking someone is so compelling in like the modern world when people usually don’t see that kind of expression?

 

Jay Wallus: Sure. I’ll give you a quick example that I was always the person and as I started out in my sales career, I would deliver proposals with some candy inside into a — I would like to call a red tube, it was maybe a foot high, small little tube, it has some Hershey Kisses inside. It had the proposal and it had the person’s name on the outside and I would walk into the customer and I would hand it to the person at the desk and say could you please give this to Mr. and Mrs. so-and-so right away, it’s very important, they’re expecting it.

 

So that person then walks into the decision maker, I was in the copy of business at the time, and said, this guy just showed up and said this is for you, you’re expecting and it’s very important. They would open up the tube, the red tube, the Hershey Kisses would fall all over the desk and they would pull out the proposal and they would be going through the pricing etc., etc., but I was the only one that delivered it that way, so the pricing was pretty similar across the board from all the different vendors, but that one time delivering that is maybe stood out. Now that’s one be a lot of business and people — other salespeople started using the same, let’s call it promotion, but it cut through the clutter and this is a time, Jared, even before email was alive, talking 1988. So there was —

 

Jared Correia: Yeah.

 

Jay Wallus: — rather than put a fax it or mail it, I personally hand-delivered it and had them bring it to the decision maker. So the minute it came in from the person at the front desk, they made quite an impact and they always talked about it afterwards. They all want to meet the guy who delivered the red tube with a proposal in it. To stick out from everyone else, yes, it worked, it increasingly worked so well, the sales manager bought all of us red tubes and we were delivering it that way. It worked out incredible.

 

Jared Correia: Do you guys watch ‘The Office’ or have watched ‘The Office’?

 

Maggie Wallus: Yes.

 

Jared Correia: So I have to say like that just makes me think, the one of the funniest scenes ever on ‘The Office’ was when they delivered the gift basket to the other office and then they tried to get it back, when he didn’t actually buy paper from them and they were yelling about like the turtle candies that they wanted back like, I wish at this point like I could embed this YouTube clip into the podcast. But, if you remember that scene, that was awesome. So the idea is to like give the gift basket and not try to take it back, right?

 

Jay Wallus: Right.

 

Jared Correia: Okay. I just want to make that clear. So I’m always interested in this, because I’m kind of like a swag person.

 

Jay Wallus: Sure.

 

Jared Correia: Whenever I go to conferences I’m looking at what people are doing right, can I get socks, do I get like a device why put like, what is the new thing that it’s coming out for people to utilize?

 

So like, Maggie, like what are some of the top promotional items that you’ve seen that lawyers are using effectively now?

 

Maggie Wallus: Well, I can tell you what we’re using for them.

 

Jared Correia: Do it, yes, I want to hear what you’re using.

 

Maggie Wallus: Okay, so, our top one is brownies. It’s a four pack of brownies.

 

Jared Correia: Like real brownies?

 

Jay Wallus: Real brownies.

 

Maggie Wallus: Real brownies. It’s boxed beautiful and when it goes —

 

Jared Correia: I can get behind this.

 

Maggie Wallus: When the customer gets it, they’re like, wow, look at this big box is for me and it’s just done — the presentation is done very nice.

 

And another thing that we do is — we do for the customer is slush, we usually do that in July so they get the slush in cups during the hottest part of the summer delivered to their clients and their clients just love that.

 

Jared Correia: Oh, how does that work, like it’s not delivered by — is this delivered by mail or —

 

Maggie Wallus: So Jay and I actually deliver them.

 

Jared Correia: Oh wow.

 

Maggie Wallus: No, we deliver them personally to their top ten and then we take pictures for them so they can put it on social media of receiving them.

 

Jared Correia: I hope to receive some slush this summer if you can make that happen?

 

Jay Wallus: So, Jared we actually took the trip down to Ritchie’s Slush, give them a plug in Everett, Massachusetts.

 

(00:20:02)

 

We loaded up a couple of large coolers in the back and we brought the cups and straws and walked into the referral sources office for the attorneys and said this is a gift from so-and-so, he appreciates everything that you do for him all throughout the year. And then we take a picture with them holding up the slush and then they tweet out from their company that this was a gift that we appreciate them.

 

So it was sort of a physical product tied into the social media tweet or Instagram tweet and it worked out incredibly well. And the best part about it was especially in the summertime, everyone started coming out of the office and said can I have a scoop and can I have a straw. So that was phenomenal, tied into the season. It was such a nice show of appreciation that the attorney absolutely positively loved it.

 

Jared Correia: Yes and that’s something I hadn’t thought about, like seasonal items seem to make a lot of sense in this regard.

 

Jay Wallus: Yeah. I will give you another good example Jared of a promotional item that works extremely well and people in New England would really understand this. We have actually gone to Walmart and purchased some $4.97 footballs. We bought a little pin to let the air out and we delivered deflated footballs with a handwritten letter which basically said to the point why have I brought you this deflated football, because number one to catch your attention; number two, the only thing that’s going to be deflated are the Patriots’ opponents this season. And number three, we know that you are probably deflated because you are not using our law firm to do your closings or conveyancing, etc., etc., etc. And that handwritten deflated football went over gigantic, absolutely and positively, so it was helping the attorneys get their foot in the door of new referral sources and it got them an audience with the people who can send those deals around. So that worked incredibly well.

 

Of course it’s New England-focused, everybody gets deflated football, everyone understands the message and the story.

 

Jared Correia: Now you have outed yourself as a Patriots fan.

 

Jay Wallus: Yeah, that’s for sure.

 

Jared Correia: So this notion of seasonality I think plays into the lawyers’ like go-to marketing channel, which is the holiday cards, right, like the consternation over holiday cards —

 

Jay Wallus: Consternation, that’s a $0.25 word Jared. I love that word.

 

Jared Correia: No, that was crazy. But this is what happens every year, like sending out the holiday cards is like such a big deal at law firms, like it shuts down the business for like two months universally. So isn’t it better to send like off holiday cards, like what about a card on Flag Day or something like that?

 

Jay Wallus: Absolutely. I will give you an example.

 

Jared Correia: You guys view that as like a viable marketing option? Yeah, go ahead.

 

Jay Wallus: Absolutely. So we are so close to Salem, Massachusetts as you know, our niece is a professional photographer and we probably have 175 photos of witches and goblins and people walking through the streets during the weekends of Salem. We sent out Halloween cards to the effect — and the tagline was it’s scary how much we appreciate our clients. We really enjoy working with you. And people just got a kick out of it.

 

So the holiday card thing is best a kneejerk reaction and we always bring up that, I don’t know if it’s fictional or not, do you know what a lemming is Jared?

 

Jared Correia: Yes.

 

Jay Wallus: They supposedly go over the cliff and when the first one goes over —

 

Jared Correia: They just follow each other off the cliff.

 

Jay Wallus: You got it, yeah, and they all drown. And so many businesses, for example, when they are coming up with a marketing plan, they look online and they say wow, this guy’s website does this or this law firm over here, their website does that, this is what they are doing for marketing, why don’t I copy that and spin it a little bit. And my thing is why don’t we throw all of that to the wayside and let’s do something that really makes you stand out.

 

And what happens is this almost becomes Jared, when the card arrives in the mail, so if they know this attorney sends out fun little cards, it’s almost like the prize in the bottom of the cereal box. Wow, what’s coming today, because it’s not a boring card, it’s a picture of Salem, Massachusetts or it tells a story or gives people some great ideas or a tip, places to go to, places to visit. So it’s always wow, what is this attorney going to send me next.

 

Not much about legal is involved, but once again it doesn’t need to be at the time, we are just showing the client or the referral source how much we appreciate them, because the legal work is logical and all the attorneys we meet, they are great at what they do. I mean they are absolutely positively great. What they are not great at is getting that client to say — to have the anticipation of speaking with them again, to have the anticipation of opening up that card or a box arrives in the mail or some sort of item shows up on the desk, what are they sending me now and of course we use them to be our lawyer or our company’s attorney. So that almost becomes secondary, but it’s first in the clients’ mind.

 

(00:25:09)

 

Jared Correia: Right, absolutely. Yeah, I have to say like one of the best holiday cards I have ever seen from a law firm was they sent me a Christmas card and at the bottom in like small letters it says by the way, we billed you for this.

 

Jay Wallus: Love it. Love it.

 

Jared Correia: Which I thought was great. That was like a nice twist on the cards. You can steal that one.

 

Jay Wallus: Perfect, because now they show everybody, look at this, how funny this is. And how many places you go in Jared and you look in and the cards are all taped around the doorway, because they are the holiday cards and they are all taped up around the thing.

 

Jared Correia: Oh, totally, yeah, and I told like 10 people about that card, yeah.

 

Jay Wallus: Yeah. Thanksgiving is another phenomenal holiday. We don’t worry about religion, we don’t worry about any of that, it’s a perfect time to appreciate clients. Honestly, if it was up to me, I would ditch the whole holiday card, have everyone do Thanksgiving or pick their own holiday.

 

Here is what we also did, come up with a client’s, it’s, let’s make up a date, August 12, it’s our clients’ day, we are appreciating you, you create your own holiday and it’s your client day.

 

Jared Correia: That’s a cool idea.

 

Jay Wallus: Yes. That stands out. Too many people pull that lemming move, let’s just do what everyone else does, we run around, we get chocolates, we deliver the chocolates with a card. It says the firm of ABCDEF and then to me it just doesn’t stand out enough, that’s all.

 

Jared Correia: No, I got you. Okay, so speaking of Thanksgiving, let’s take a moment to thank our sponsors of this show, without whom there would be no podcast. So while I try to figure out whether I am eating left TWIX or right TWIX, listen to these words from our sponsors.

 

[Music]

 

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[Music]

 

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[Music]

 

Jared Correia: All right everybody, thank you for soldiering on with us. We are done with our breaks and we are heading into segment three of this show.

 

You have returned, I didn’t have anything better to do either and we are still talking with Jay and Maggie Wallus of Thank Yous Delivered, who have been educating us on effectively nurturing relationships with clients and referral sources. Let’s find out more.

 

Jay, you are a salesman, how do you try to educate lawyers on sales in a way that is effective for them when they are mostly trained on focusing on substantive legal work to the exclusion of everything else?

 

Jay Wallus: Most of the attorneys that we meet know, just like Maggie said, know something should be done and when we sit down and say what if you just focused on two hours a week client acquisition, client appreciation, you start out very small, a couple of hours a week, think about who your clients are.

 

I will give you an example. We met with so many attorneys and I said, for example, who sends you the most referrals and they look up into the ceiling and they go well, this guy sends me a bunch and this woman over here, she is really good and then we have this one over here. The names to be organized and understanding that this is a sales funnel as salespeople call it and to just understand who is coming down the funnel to be sold. So who is in the pipeline so to say.

 

So educating them on you can work in it for X amount of hours, but let’s just delegate two hours a week to do it that way, just work on it and think about who are some of the referral sources that we have.

 

And a lot of attorneys that we meet join groups, like they join BNI, which is a phenomenal way to get business. They join other groups and they go to networking events, which is another whole seminar or call Jared, networking events, where everyone stands around and they stand next to their friend and hope someone comes up to them and things like that, that’s another whole thing.

 

But I have sent so many thank you cards. Attorneys would leave a networking event and say Jay, I am leaving the event, they will leave it on my voicemail, please send out a card and a box of brownies, it was great to meet you at the ABC event, looking forward to chatting more in the future and hit him with the brownies. I want it out of the attorney’s head and I want it into my voicemail so that we can send out a note of appreciation for them.

 

(00:30:13)

 

It helps them focus that okay, I met them and I know this is being done for me, because it’s tough work. I mean I have seen these attorneys, they grind it out, it’s very difficult.

 

Jared Correia: Oh, they absolutely do, yeah, a lot of it is like guerilla marketing, you have really got to hit the streets and like really effectively market like a niche practice in a local area.

 

So Jay and Maggie, like part of the idea here is that everything should be working together, right, you go to a networking event, then you send the thank yous, you do good work, then you send the thank yous. How do you both try to set up a cadence with attorneys where they are consistently thinking about how they show appreciation after they do the work, because part of this is a mindset change also, right?

 

Jay Wallus: Absolutely positively yes, it’s a total mindset change and it’s one of these things Jared, I know I should be doing it, I know I should be doing it, I am really not sure. The cadence comes when it’s at the beginning of the month or at the end of the week or at the beginning of the week, because usually we help them allocate some time that this is what we are going to look at during that time. So it just becomes what you do let’s say Monday afternoon from 4 to 5 or Monday from 10 to 11, it doesn’t have to be Monday, but there is that time that’s blocked off and understanding that the other things have to be tossed to the wayside.

 

It’s very important, I often share with them something that I read I thought was absolutely fascinating and show them how important this was. So there is a book called Thank You Power, Jared, you will appreciate this one too, by Deborah Norville and she talks about an experiment where one group of customers was sent a thank you, a second group was sent a thank you and a 20% off coupon and a third group of customers was sent absolutely nothing. There were actually more repeat business from the first group, the ones that actually just received the thank you note then either of the other two groups.

 

So if you think about it, the minute promotion was added to it, the response fell off, people felt pitched. People felt you are trying to work me. And then it says the reason is really, really simple. The coupon offer was seen as insincere, bingo. So it’s a heartfelt thank you for coming in. It’s just opening up to being who you are instead of this suit with armor. We are dealing with people and their emotions and attorneys are people with emotions, but take off that suit of armor and become a person to them and what I say you have got to let them in, you have got to let them in because these people are baring their soul to you.

 

When they are buying a house, it’s craziness, divorce, craziness, a million other arguments in business, craziness, but let them in, let them view you as a person, let them view who you are to your family and your kids. When they see that, that you are a genuine person who genuinely cares, the business just flows.

 

Someone said well, how do I close someone? Well, you don’t, you build a relationship and the business just flows, and some of their best clients, they have the best relationships with and I say, where did you get this person? Oh, they came in in this scenario and I talked to them at 10 o’clock at night because they were stressed. Bingo, emotion.

 

But to understand they are humans too and to let them into your suit or into his or her suit and let them know that you are people and they are people and you understand. That’s some of the biggest breakthroughs that people always buy emotionally and justify logically.

 

So if your firm is another $200 an hour, emotionally if they feel that you are worth it, they will pay it, they will absolutely positively pay it. If they feel, that’s the keyword, that you are worth it.

 

Jared Correia: So back to the Joe Girardi question, you said this book was written by Deborah Norville, like the newscaster?

 

Jay Wallus: Deborah Norville, no, no, the book is Thank You Power, yes.

 

Jared Correia: Thank You Power, all right, I am going to have to look that up. I have a lot of pop culture confusion during this podcast. It’s been a very difficult show for me clearly.

 

Maggie, is it difficult to live with Jay, who is trying to sell you stuff all the time? Like after you make dinner, does he send you like a thank you card, that’s like hey, that was a dope shepherd’s pie, thank you?

 

Maggie Wallus: Hey listen, I used to sit there night after night writing those out, now we have an automated system, even better.

 

Jay Wallus: What would happen was, how many appointments do you have today, okay, I had four. Okay honey, here are your two cards, I will write my two cards, put my business card in. Here we go with the live stamp on it and away it went in the mailbox the next day.

 

Jared Correia: Better than dessert, right?

 

Jay Wallus: Yes, right, but that’s how I built all my business, it was a simple thank you card, it’s crazy.

 

Jared Correia: Yeah, no, this has been great. I thought this was a tremendous discussion and it’s something that a lot of attorneys don’t think about.

 

(00:34:52)

 

Unfortunately though we have covered a lot of ground and we have reached the end of yet another episode of The Legal Toolkit Podcast. This was the podcast about Nurturing Referral Sources and we have been talking with Jay and Maggie Wallus of Thank Yous Delivered.

 

Now, as you know, I will be back on future shows with further insights into my soul, the soul of America and the legal market. If you are feeling nostalgic for my dulcet tones however, you can check those out anytime you want by viewing our show archive at legaltalknetwork.com.

 

So thanks again to Jay and Maggie Wallus of Thank Yous Delivered for appearing as my guest today.

 

Jay and Maggie, can you tell everybody about how they can find out more about you two and about Thank Yous Delivered.

 

Jay Wallus: Sure. The website is of course www.thankyousdelivered.com or they can text me at 617-285-5366, text or call is fine.

 

Jared Correia: Wow, you are giving out your number to text your brave soul. I noticed that Maggie did not give out her number for texting, she is smart.

 

Well, thanks again to Jay and Maggie Wallus who are our guests today. Yeah, this is great. They run a company called Thank Yous Delivered, check out their website.

 

Finally, thanks to all of you out there for listening. This has been the Legal Toolkit Podcast where it never rains in Southern California.

 

[Music]

 

Outro: Thanks for listening to Legal Toolkit, produced by the broadcast professionals at Legal Talk Network. Join host Jared Correia for his next podcast covering the current business trends for law firms.

 

If you would like more information about today’s show, please visit legaltalknetwork.com. Subscribe via iTunes and RSS. Find Legal Talk Network on Twitter, Facebook, and LinkedIn, or download the free app from Legal Talk Network in Google Play and iTunes.

 

[Music]

 

The views expressed by the participants of this program are their own and do not represent the views of, nor are they endorsed by Legal Talk Network, its officers, directors, employees, agents, representatives, shareholders, and subsidiaries. None of the content should be considered legal advice. As always, consult a lawyer.

 

[Music]

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Episode Details
Published: February 4, 2020
Podcast: Legal Toolkit
Category: Best Legal Practices
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Legal Toolkit
Legal Toolkit

Legal Toolkit highlights services, ideas, and programs that will improve lawyers' practices and workflow.

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