#520: The Truth About Lawyer Self-Care: Prioritize or Suffer

Episode Notes

Transcript

Zack Glaser (00:12): 

Hi, I’m Zack. 

  

Jennifer Whigham (00:13): 

And I’m Jennifer Whigham. And this is episode 520 of the Lawyerist Podcast, part of the Legal Talk Network. Today, Zach talks with one of our Lawyerist lab coaches, Letitia, about self-care, and we don’t have any sponsors. So usually right now I’d be like, here’s a sponsor. But you know what I’m going to say instead? This is our first podcast on YouTube where people see our faces. And I want to tell you right now, I’m mad. I did not want anybody to know I had a face 

  

Zack Glaser (00:42): 

For a while. I wasn’t sure that she did because we worked distributed and each person, right. 

  

Jennifer Whigham (00:47): 

And I always each always wore a mask, a full mask or like a mascot costume. 

  

Zack Glaser (00:54): 

Yes. Yeah, we need a lawyer’s lab con. Lab con mascot. 

  

Jennifer Whigham (00:58): 

Oh yeah. It has to be the, well, we have the lobster, 

  

Zack Glaser (01:02): 

You mean? We do have the lobster. Well, I will say this feels very talkies to silent films to talkie sort 

  

Jennifer Whigham (01:13): 

The singer. 

  

Zack Glaser (01:13): 

We’ve done it. Yeah. This is the jazz singer of episodes. So if you can’t see our faces, because you’re used to this being on just an audio podcast, hop over to YouTube, the YouTubes, and you can see our faces and Yeah, you can 

  

Jennifer Whigham (01:29): 

Don’t bully us in the comments. 

  

Zack Glaser (01:31): 

Yeah, that’s a really good way to not get bullied. 

  

Jennifer Whigham (01:35): 

To get bullied. Yeah, I know. So I kind of expect it, but also, so we’re doing the jazz singer. We’re kind of upping our technology, but you told me an interesting story about your weekend where you met a robot. And personally, I think Lawyerist is about technology and this feels important to share. 

  

Zack Glaser (01:54): 

Yeah, yeah. I met three robots. 

  

Jennifer Whigham (01:56): 

Three, oh gosh. 

  

Zack Glaser (01:58): 

In the same place. Don’t remember their names. Oh 

  

Jennifer Whigham (02:00): 

Wow. Okay. Well, they’re going to kill you when the Oh, 

  

Zack Glaser (02:04): 

I’m the first 

  

Jennifer Whigham (02:04): 

One. Revolution comes. Yeah. You’re the first to 

  

Zack Glaser (02:06): 

Go. I’m absolutely, I’m absolutely targeted. I’ve been way too rude to Alexa. 

  

Jennifer Whigham (02:11): 

I always say, please and thank you. Don’t you 

  

Zack Glaser (02:13): 

To chat GPTI 

  

Jennifer Whigham (02:15): 

Do. I’m really, I just assume it’s happening. I say thank you. I say please. I say Good morning. I do it all. 

  

Zack Glaser (02:23): 

Anyways, so these robots were very polite. I went to a hotpot place in Memphis with my wife and the person, or the critter creature, whatever. The thing that sat us, showed us to our table was a cute little robot. It was like making beep BP boop noises. And follow me to your table. We are at table be three, have a good meal 

  

Jennifer Whigham (02:51): 

Then. So were you expecting this? 

  

Zack Glaser (02:52): 

Oh, no. 

  

Jennifer Whigham (02:53): 

Or just you walk in, the robot greets you and you’re like, oh, 

  

Zack Glaser (02:57): 

Well. So I walk in and, and this is actually how you kind of tie it into Lawyerist and technology, using technology in our practices is you walk in and there’s a human. Because if I had walked in, we haven’t normalized it yet, a robot could 100% greet me. And I don’t mean to say that hostesses and hosts aren’t important because I do like being greeted by a human person, but you could probably skip that. I walk in, robot takes me my table, but we’re not expecting that. If I had walked in and there was just this robot there, I don’t know that I would’ve paid attention to it. So this human person told us what was going on, gave us the lay of the land and everything, and then hands us our menus. And then this just little tiny robot, like our 2D two looking dude just takes us back, says bye, says thanks, says bye, asks us to rate it, ask if you wouldn’t mind, could you share your experience? 

  

(04:06): 

And I’m like, five stars, it’s something you press, you didn’t. So I press, and I’m not going to intentionally get myself on the wrong side of the robot uprising. So yeah, of course I give it five stars. So human comes and takes our order, which I think, again, this could have been taken out of the process, but if we link it back to in your law office, there’s only so many jumps you can make in automation. There’s only this certain chasm that you can ask your people to cross. I could not have had a robot be like, can you please input your order here? We could have, it would’ve worked fine, except for me, the user is the problem in that scenario. 

  

(04:57): 

And so we had somebody take our order and everything, and then these robots just start showing up, bringing us our food, and they just coming along, table B three, your order is here, please take your food. And then you hit, so you take it off, you take it. Basically the robot is three stacked trays with a little motor on the bottom or something. So you know how you take your food at Ikea where you have that little tray? Oh yeah, I do. It’s a lot like that, but it looks more like a little robot. It has cute cat face when it leaves, it’s like, oh, thanks. Have a great meal. Makes all these cute robot noises and everything. So it was a cool experience. I mean, I absolutely got selfies with the robot, but it was, yeah, you could take people out of the experience, but there were still a lot of waiters, still a lot of people busing the table and whatnot. Really because I hadn’t been trained to use the robot. If it was a place that I knew I’m going to the robot place, I think I’d be okay because be out out in the earth walking around and I wouldn’t have to experience people. 

  

(06:20): 

Would that be, 

  

Jennifer Whigham (06:21): 

I mean, it depends on your mood. I would also say you need people, because robots yet can’t do nuances of body language and human behavior. And so when you have a server that is really good and they can pick up on body language and things like that, but thinking of law firms as well, you can automate it so much. But having a human brain to analyze the just nuances of voice changes and body language and history is still very important. 

  

Zack Glaser (06:58): 

There is definitely something to that human experience, but I think also some people don’t necessarily want that human experience. So maybe your clients do want to just fill out a form and then get a phone call or get an email. I always say, if you’re doing divorce law, a lot of times somebody’s filling this stuff out or searching for their divorce attorney when they have some privacy. So maybe it’s three o’clock in the morning on their phone, maybe it’s during their break. And they don’t want somebody calling them saying, Hey, I hear you’d like to divorce your spouse’s sitting right next to you. 

  

Jennifer Whigham (07:35): 

I always say, communicate with how people have expressed they want to be communicated with. So if someone just prefers email, we’ll do email. If they are more of a use their mouth to talk, which obviously I’m not, we’ll do a phone call, but robots, man, robots, 

  

Zack Glaser (07:53): 

They’re going to take over the world, hopefully. Maybe. Hopefully. Because I just 

  

Jennifer Whigham (07:59): 

Still, it depends. Well, I don’t think you want them to take over the world. You’ve been mean to them anyway, so here is Zach’s conversation with Letitia. 

  

Leticia DeSuze (08:07): 

Hi, I’m Leticia DeSuze and I am a business coach here at Lawyerist. I’ve been coaching for 15 years and I’ve coached well over 1300 leaders, and I’m really, really intentional and passionate about helping leaders redefine success by prioritizing themselves as it relates to holistic self-care because it’s one of the areas that is so neglected. 

  

Zack Glaser (08:35): 

Letitia, thanks for being with me. I know you and I have spent a good deal of time together as coaches here, and I really like how you say that redefining success and talking about holistic, we talk about self-care here at Lawyerist some, and I don’t necessarily think it’s enough. I know you don’t. And we were actually talking about the priority of self-care before we came on here, because I think you were discussing our Labster portal with me and saying that self-care equates to healthy owner in our system, and a healthy owner a lot of times is put, it’s literally the last chapter of our book. It’s literally the last chapter. And you were saying we probably need to reprioritize that even in the book. We probably need to reprioritize that. 

  

Leticia DeSuze (09:42): 

No, I completely agree in the book, in the portal, because Lawyerist people often live by this, I think I’ve heard it called the doctrine of self-sacrifice. But if you look at statistics of the lawyers that have substance abuse problems and they die by suicide or they have deep addiction problems, a lot of times I think it’s stems from a lack of care of itself that self-sacrifice is not sustainable. And in many instances, self-care is not something that we’re taught or we’re taught that it’s selfish. And I think it needs to be prioritized for people to have success in a way that is healthy. And I just lose their shit. Oh, can I say shit? 

  

Zack Glaser (10:28): 

Yeah, on this podcast? 

  

Leticia DeSuze (10:31): 

Yes. 

  

Zack Glaser (10:34): 

Yeah. So I was actually talking with a counselor yesterday. I’m a big proponent of going to see counselors, one of my forms of self-care. And he used the phrase, and I thought that was interesting to think about self-care because it’s a way of balancing things, I think because, and he was talking about how law is a extremely stressful job many times, and it also brought up statistics of higher statistics of suicide among lawyers and higher statistics of substance abuse among lawyers. And I thought it was interesting to think about active anti-stress, active self-care, not necessarily passive, and this term holistic self-care struck me really when you use it. But what do you mean by holistic? 

  

Leticia DeSuze (11:39): 

I think I’m a big analogy person, so I have random pictures that pop into my mind. So if we think of a pie, a piece of the pie might be, oh, I’m going to the spa. Because a lot of people think of spade is self-care, right? But if you think of the entirety of the pie, and that represents all of you, there’s your spiritual wellbeing, there’s your mental, there’s your emotional, there’s your social, there’s your financial. And so we’re multifaceted, and there’s so many parts of us, and sometimes we focus on one thing to the neglect of the others. But if you think of the wheels on a car, here’s another analogy. If you’ve got three good tires bad, you’re kind of not driving in a way that is steady. And so holistic is giving adequate attention to all of the parts. You might not always be doing that at the same time, but it’s having the bigger picture of all of the parts and then giving the attention and being very intentional about caring for those parts so that the whole is healthy and functional. 

  

Zack Glaser (12:48): 

Because if you’re paying too much attention to just one tire, I like this analogy because yeah, if you have a tire that’s just a little bit off and the other three are good, you’re going to be bouncing up and down while you’re driving down the road. 

  

Leticia DeSuze (13:03): 

What’s funny is I went to Discount Tire last week and I said I was looking at all of the blowouts, so I was like, lemme just do a random tire check. And three of my tires had similar tread, and one, I was like, why is this one so much different? There could be a lot of reasons. He said, for me, I drive really hard one way, so my tires look this way. It made me think. So I was like, how am I driving so that three of my tires are consistent, but one is just the outlier. So it’s the same thing. 

  

Zack Glaser (13:38): 

That’s a fascinating addition or layer to this analogy as well, is that looking at your holistic self, not everybody’s holistic self-care is going to look the same because we need more support in certain places. Some of us might need more, I don’t know, intellectual, they might need to do. So for me, my intellectual self-care, a lot of times it actually takes two forms. One is kind of turning off my brain. I do crossword puzzles all the time to just kind of shut my brain off, but then it’s also going out and learning new things. And I don’t know that if I need more intellectual than others, it really doesn’t matter. But I know that I need a good deal of that. But I also struggle with this idea of I could, I’m a weirdo, I could do crossword puzzles all day. I mean, I could neglect things and do crossword puzzles all day. And if I sit here and I go, I’m doing crossword puzzles, my wife comes into my office and is like, well, hey, shouldn’t you be working? And I just go like, hashtag self-care. When does it become too much where you’re like, okay, yeah, Zach, you probably need to get out of the float machine and go do some work. 

  

Leticia DeSuze (15:09): 

So I think that everybody has their own prescription of, like you said, what is needed to make them function. So my own self-care, there are my responsibilities, the things that I need to show up for and those things that I need to do, the people that I have meetings with, the people that I’m coaching, I’m not going to miss those things outside of that time. The things that I need to do to care for myself so that I can show up, those are the first things that are in my schedule. So it’s not like I’m just sitting in flotation therapy and it’s like I’ll just coach when I get around to it because I need to care for myself. So it’s not indulgent in that sense. In a very practical way. I get the first parts of my day from 5:00 AM to 8:00 AM I get the very first parts of my day. And so that is my morning routine. If that is just listening to the bird’s chirp, praying, meditating, whatever that may be, that is the time that I’m gifting to me so that before somebody sees me, I’ve given that time to myself. So that’s just a value of mine that nobody gets more time from me than I give to myself. So there’s going to be 21 more hours left that are here outside of sleep, and so everything else falls into that time. 

  

Zack Glaser (16:30): 

So how do you decide then that three hours, I guess taking away 24, 21 for 24? That’s 

  

Leticia DeSuze (16:41): 

What I’m doing in the three hours? 

  

Zack Glaser (16:42): 

No, just like that specific amount of time, because I can envision a scenario pretty easily where an attorney would come back to us and say, well, I don’t have that three hour sack. I’ve got a law firm to run, and I have the responsibility of taking on my associates, the people that work for me or whatever. I want them to practice, but I have the responsibility of taking on their burdens, and I just don’t have that time Letitia. 

  

Leticia DeSuze (17:15): 

So I don’t think that it has three hours is what works for me. Because remember, I coach lawyers, so maybe I need more time than the lawyers. I got to coach him. So your three hours could be 30 minutes. So your prescription for self-care does not look like mine, but your three hours could be 30 minutes. 30 minutes. The biggest thing is that you have time carved out for you in your own calendar where you’re doing the thing that allows you to show up at your best. And so you will get the time argument all day that I don’t have time, but you’re actually where time comes from. If you’re a law firm owner and you own your practice, you own your time. So what is absorbing your time that prevents you from caring for yourself? You just have some decisions to make. Are they easy decisions? No. But if you’re the last person and you’re only getting the crumbs of your time, it’s really not sustainable. Your kids ultimately won’t see you, your significant others, and then it’s like the tail wagging the dog. So sure, you may see success, but it is not going to be the kind that is ultimately fulfilling. 

  

Zack Glaser (18:28): 

Right, right. Okay. So if I understand you, you’re saying basically you’re getting a hundred percent self-care. You’re filling your cup in three hours is what fills your cup in a sense. But you’re not using, and I think this is what’s interesting to me lately, is you’re not using self-care to mitigate stress using self-care to care for yourself too. Instead of saying, okay, well how much stress can I get away with having here? Well, no, I’m supposed to be a fully functioning human being. And so it seems like you’re saying how much self-care and what does it look like? Do I need in order to be a fully functioning human being? 

  

Leticia DeSuze (19:25): 

Exactly. And then creating my life and the things around my life in service to that and not the other way around. Most people are slaves to their calendar slaves to their commitments, and then I get on the phone or on Zoom with lawyers, and they’re dealing with anxiety and burnout and overwhelm, and they’ve built this thing that feels like a prison and they are not getting their own time because it’s in service to everyone else. And so I’m saying we need to make very difficult decisions and shift this because if you are getting the crumbs of your own time, nobody that loves you is really getting the best from you, and it’s not fair. 

  

Zack Glaser (20:06): 

Yeah. Okay. So I feel this, as you can imagine, when I was practicing, I felt this, I still feel it now, but as I took some time to say, well, what does self-care look like to me? I don’t always have great ideas because I just kind of go, well, I don’t do a spot. Well, alright, first thing I do, I do a spot a that’ll work for me. But when I was first starting to kind of think about what are the things that I enjoy, what does fill my cup? I don’t know. It had been so long since I had really just said, okay, well, I’m going to do something for me, fun for me was being successful in a case, being successful at the office. It wasn’t. Now I do blacksmithing a decent bit, but it wasn’t that. So what are some things that you think about with self-care or what are some unconventional overlooked ways of practicing self-care? 

  

Leticia DeSuze (21:17): 

So boundaries are a form of self-care, what you say yes to and what you say no to, which is also going to affect your time. So having boundaries in place to know, here are my non-negotiables, here’s what I say yes to. Here’s what I say no to, is a form of self-care. Keeping your commitments to yourself as a form of self-care because it creates self-trust, right? And so when you have self-trust, you show up in the world more confidently because you know that if nobody else got you, you got keeping your commitments to yourself. I 

  

Zack Glaser (21:55): 

Like that. 

  

Leticia DeSuze (21:56): 

Oh 

  

Zack Glaser (21:57): 

Man. Yeah, because again, I can envision scenarios in my life where I’m like, I’m never going to do that. Or where I don’t trust myself. Yes, Zach, you want to do that, but there’s no way you’re going to pull that off because you’re just going to let it slip through the cracks. So you’re not going to show up for yourself like that. 

  

Leticia DeSuze (22:15): 

And so then what I’m natural curiosity is a form of self-care. Like you, I’m always reading learning. My daughter says I study studying, so I’m always studying something because it feeds that intellectual self-care for me. But then there are two times where my mind needs the freedom to do nothing. So I spend a lot of time near water. So whether it’s the lake by my house or float therapy or something that will allow me to be near water, so I know my own prescription for self-care and what works for me to show up as the best version of me. And if somebody says, I don’t know what I like to do, that’s probably the first place you’ve gotten so disconnected from yourself that you don’t even know what you like. That’s probably a good place to start, is figuring out what is it that I really like and enjoy that actually feeds me. 

  

Zack Glaser (23:14): 

And I think that you can follow that path and generally find other things that you enjoy and that feed you that are related. Or if you wind up, I have found if you wind up at a class of something that you’re interested in, you’ll probably get to talking to people who have some of the same interests as you. And so you might, these things feed off themselves a little bit as well. 

  

Leticia DeSuze (23:40): 

Speaking of feeding food and what you’re eating is a form of self-care. So I’m going to tell you, so I can’t remember what it was that I was eating regularly, but I found myself taking Toms and taking acid reducers, and then I had to have a conversation with myself, and I said, self myself, said myself, said, are we just going to normalize acid reducers and tons, or is there an adjustment that we need to make here to care for you in a better way? And so I care for myself in a more effective way as it relates to what I’m feeding myself, which also contributes to my energy levels and how I’m feeling. So when I say holistic, they overlap, but sometimes there are things that are glaring because they cause issues, and so we recognize, so it’s not just one dimensional is my point. 

  

Zack Glaser (24:37): 

Oh, yeah, absolutely. But I like the intentionality of that though too, talking to yourself and saying, well, is this what I want? I mean, yeah, Zach, if you want to eat donuts and pizza all day and that brings you some sort of joy and you can take Tums all day, fine. Make that decision, make it intentionally though. And then that becomes, but really, it’s unlikely that that’s going to be the best thing to do. 

  

Leticia DeSuze (25:08): 

And I think that as your values change, as your priorities change, when I was in my thirties who says I’m not in, I may or may not still be in them, 

  

(25:19): 

But as you age or as you grow or as you mature, sometimes caring for yourself and what’s important takes a different priority. So I have an adult daughter, I have a granddaughter. When I think about, and I have a grandmother who’s 93. When I think about, gosh, if I’m blessed to live to 93 years old, how would I need to be taking care of myself now so that I would have the most vitality possible? So I think about more than just me. So while self-care can seem selfish, it’s actually not. It’s like how can I show up and be the best version of me, not just for lawyers or clients, but also when I think about my family, my daughter, my granddaughter, what does that require from me? 

  

Zack Glaser (26:06): 

If I’m high stressed and I’m snappy, people don’t necessarily want to be around me. And even if I am giving them time or spending time with them, it’s not going to be super great time. But I also like this idea of self-care potentially being a gift to our future self. You can’t take care of your past self from, you have to practice self-care now in order to be able to show up for yourself when you are 93. Hopefully we get there. 

  

Leticia DeSuze (26:45): 

Well, sometimes I think we’re just shortsighted in our necess. We may have financial planners and we’re planning 10 or 15 years out, but we’re not necessarily thinking about our own health and wellbeing and vitality and how that is also a gift. Do you do, if I think about my grandmother, my grandmother died in 67 and she was very sickly. I can just remember a lot of ailments. So my memories of her, they involve a lot of sickness and hospital visits and ailments. And so if I think about the memory bank of my children and my grandchildren, I want that memory bank not to be filled with things that I could have been prevented had I just taken better care of myself. Yeah, 

  

Zack Glaser (27:28): 

Yeah. I also like that what you just brought up with, we have financial planners, and frankly, we have other podcasts that go into why one needs a financial planner, and you can look for those, but we do harp on that a good bit. But yeah, we have financial planners to set ourselves up theoretically for our retirement, our future. So why don’t we have self-care planners or wellness plan planning? I like that. Wellness planners 

  

Leticia DeSuze (28:00): 

Where I go, where I do all of the cryotherapy and all of the things, they have a thing up there that says, what is your wellness plan? I said, huh, wow. Well, now that you ask, let me, so all of the things that I’m telling you, these are simply my wellness plan. 

  

Zack Glaser (28:20): 

If I walk into a place, or I think if many people walk into a place and this says, what is your wellness plan? They start to think, well, that’s pretty woos. And it’s like, is it though it’s taking care of ourselves? Well, I guess that’s the question. How did taking care of ourselves become such a weird thing? How is that the woo thing? How is struggle the model? How is stress the thing where you go, okay, well, we’re doing well if we’re stressed. And you see television shows where the successful people are the ones that are just late nights eating pizza up at three o’clock in the morning trying to take care of this case. And how did that become the ideal? 

  

Leticia DeSuze (29:20): 

I think it’s because you know how something has been away for such a long time and people just fall into it rather than challenging it. So I was in a mall, I don’t like malls, by the way, but I remember being in a mall here in Atlanta, and they were selling these wristbands, and the wristband says, sleep is for suckers. And I was like, oh, I need a wristband that just says I’m a sucker because I’m going to sleep. And so there’s this thing about, oh, you can sleep when you’re dead. And all of these things that people just gravitate to because we just got to grind it out. And I’m just like, well, grinding is killing us. Hustling and grinding is really killing us, and nobody is really saying they can think about it. And so the things that to say I want to be healthy or to say that I want to be, well, that’s almost like that is like you said, the thing that is called Woo, as opposed to normalizing health and wellbeing and doing things differently. So I’m just like, well, just call me weird. Really? Okay with being weird and Well, 

  

Zack Glaser (30:23): 

I want that as a bumper sticker on my truck. 

  

Leticia DeSuze (30:25): 

Yeah, I’m weird and well weird. 

  

Zack Glaser (30:27): 

Well, man, I think my wife will finally let me get a bumper sticker if I’ve got that. I like that a lot. Well, so the thing that makes me think of though is people who, and I run across this a lot, people who really, really prioritize their physical wellbeing or overp prioritize their physical wellbeing or whatever and go for runs every day or CrossFit or any sort of exercise, Zumba or Pilates. How do we keep that from becoming just another thing that we have to do? How do we work self-care into our lives without it just being another task like, crap, I got to get up at five o’clock in the morning, otherwise I’m not going to get my three hours of self-care in. 

  

Leticia DeSuze (31:18): 

Well, so for me, I think it came from a place of learning to love me and learning that I was worthy of this and that. Now it’s not that I have to, I get to care for me, I get to give these things to myself because I see how it affects my work and everything else. So it’s not a have to, because when you have to do anything, you kind of have a natural distance to it. I get to up, I get to sleep till I’m finished or I get to read, or I get to get curious. I get to do these things. So they are things that I genuinely love to do because I love me. That wasn’t always the case. So I think just healing and everything else starts from the inside out. I think it goes back to your relationship with yourself, how things were modeled before you or not. Because otherwise, if you’re just trying to force something into your schedule, you don’t really have the conviction or the desire for that. It’s like square in a circle. So we’ve got to start inside. 

  

Zack Glaser (32:24): 

So maybe if running isn’t your jam, training for training for a marathon is not actually self-care, 

  

Leticia DeSuze (32:31): 

Right? Maybe running is not your thing. Maybe you like to walk or maybe you, like I said, it looks different just like for everybody. And if I look at your prescription like crossword puzzles, I’m going to be like, that’s not selfcare for me because I’m not who, right? So it’s just going back to what we said from the redefining success, like wellness in your wellbeing, it’s to be a part of your success of your business plan. And I never see it. I never see anybody’s wellness plan. I see marketing plans, I see business plans, I see financial plans. I never see the wellness part of somebody’s plan. And just like one firm’s or one person’s, finances looks different from somebody else’s. What you need to care for you can look radically different for me. And that is really okay. 

  

Zack Glaser (33:24): 

Yeah. I like that wellness. Should we start putting a wellness plan in our businesses? Yeah. You’ve got your financial plan, you’ve got your marketing plan, and absolutely. Yeah, 

  

Leticia DeSuze (33:40): 

I definitely think so. Because like you said earlier, I believe in therapy or counseling, and so does part of your wellness look like having a therapist? I know someone who, he had a business coach, a life coach, a trainer. He’s just like, I believe in doing this holistically. That looks different for everybody. But yeah, what is your wellness plan? Because if you achieve all the things, but you feel terrible and shitty, but then what is the point? 

  

Zack Glaser (34:11): 

Yeah, man. Well, I think I’m going to, I like that as ending on is go do your wellness plan, knock out some time. What is it that people that are listening, what is it that? What is it that fills your cup? What would you put on your wellness plan? I’d love to hear that. And maybe if you’ve got the small firm roadmap revisited, go rip out the back chapter and tape it to the front. 

  

Leticia DeSuze (34:46): 

Put it, I’ve got all these post-Its on the side of my screen. Put it somewhere where you can see. And it’s just like, I am the most important part of my business. Not your team, not everybody that you’re doing this for. You’re the most important part because everything else will stem from you, not just what you say, not just what’s written in the vision, but also what’s modeled before people. 

  

Zack Glaser (35:10): 

I love that. I love that. Yeah. What are you modeling? Well, Letitia, you and I could harp on this for a while, and if people want to listen to you talk more about this and about all the other things that they can always contact us and follow you on Instagram. Well, LinkedIn, 

  

Leticia DeSuze (35:30): 

Your biz doctor on LinkedIn. 

  

Zack Glaser (35:32): 

Yeah. What was it on 

  

Leticia DeSuze (35:35): 

Your biz? Doctor? Y-O-U-R-B-I-Z, doctor. I hadn’t even see. I’ve been into wellness even more than I ever really thought about that. 

  

Zack Glaser (35:44): 

Right, right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So you’re biz doctor, and we’ll put those links in the show notes here. But Letitia, as always, thanks for talking with me. I learn a ton of stuff when I talk to you. Thank you. 

  

Leticia DeSuze (35:59): 

Thanks for having me. 

 

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