On the last episode of our The Life of a Lawyer Start to Finish series, we discussed How to Succeed in Law School. In this episode, we move on to the next logical step: How to Find a Job After Law School.
We’re pleased to be joined by someone who wrote the playbook on how to do just that! Host Craig Williams is joined by trial attorney Rachel Gezerseh, author of The Law Career Playbook: The Guerrilla Guide to Getting a Legal Job You Actually Like, which is the leading networking guide for law students and new lawyers.
Special thanks to our sponsor, Posh Virtual Receptionists.
J. Craig Williams: Before we begin today’s show, we want to thank our sponsor Posh Virtual Receptionists.
Rachel Gezerseh: Especially as a newer lawyer or a law student or a college student, educating yourself early on these things is going to pay dividends because then you’ll know. I mean, a lot of people go to law school really not knowing that the true reality of what we do and you know what it really means to be a lawyer and if you can plug in and educate yourself on those things early, it’ll have huge benefits for you beyond having this great network or getting a good job, you’ll actually know what you’re getting into.
Intro: Welcome to the award-winning podcast. Lawyer 2 Lawyer with J. Craig Williams, bringing you the latest legal news and observations with the leading experts in the legal profession. You’re listening to Legal Talk Network.
J. Craig Williams: Welcome to Lawyer 2 Lawyer on the Legal Talk Network. I’m Craig Williams coming to you from Southern California or by the blog named May It Please the Court. I have two books out entitled How to get Sued and The Sled. This is another in our ongoing series of The Life of a Lawyer, Start to Finish the third one. And here, we’re going to explore the experience of becoming and being an attorney from applying to law schools through retirement and everything in between. Our last episode in the series, we discussed how to succeed in law school with Isaac Mamaysky. On today’s episode, we’re going to move on to the next step and discuss how to find a job after law school. We’re pleased to be joined by someone who wrote The Playbook on how to do just that. We’ll discuss the strategy for finding a job. How to stand out from the rest in this competitive field and ensuring the path you pick is the right path for you. And to do that, our guest today is Rachel Gezerseh, she’s a trial attorney with Panish Shea Boyle and Ravipudi who specializes in litigating complex, catastrophic, personal injury, wrongful death and products liability cases. Rachel is the author of The Law Career Playbook: The Gorilla Guide to Getting a Legal Job You Actually Like, which is the leading network guide for law students and new lawyers. And welcome to the show Rachel.
Rachel Gezerseh: Hi, happy to be here.
J. Craig Williams: Great. Well, that’s a very interesting title for a book. What inspired you to write it?
Rachel Gezerseh: Well, when I was working on this book back when I was working in big law at the Jones Day Law Firm in Los Angeles and even though it’s actually an amazing firm and a really good place to join as a new lawyer and big law for training and just for the people that you meet there as they got more senior, I realized I was not a very happy lawyer and I, you know, I had a lot of mentees and people that I was working with for my law school who I would always help kind of follow my path to break in the big law so to speak, and I realized that the path to being a happy lawyer is more about finding a job where you fit. A job that actually you feel utilized and you feel like you’re using your best self every day towards and as I was helping other people get their jobs, I started working on this book and started working on this idea of figuring out who you are and what you want from the law and that’s what inspired me. It was my own journey as an unhappy lawyer, kind of shifting out a big law in the defense and then helping others also finding their dream jobs in the law.
J. Craig Williams: You know, we are going to talk today about small law, medium law and big law. But was it about big law that made you an unhappy lawyer?
Rachel Gezerseh: Well, you know, it’s interesting. it is the dream job often times when you’re in law school and there’s good reasons for that. You know, the money is good and you have really excellent smart clients and great high-profile cases that you work on. But for me, it wasn’t a good fit because as I got more senior, I was working more on these massive sort of document review projects and not really utilizing the storytelling and the advocacy things that had brought me to law in the first place. I just wasn’t doing that on a day-to-day basis. And so, I really had to look at myself and look at the work and, you know, it’s not the document review is an important work, it is. But for me, it was just no longer a good fit as I got more senior.
J. Craig Williams: Right. Well, let’s talk to about trial work and you’re in litigation now, but what level of litigation did you reach when you were working for Jones Day?
Rachel Gezerseh: What level?
J. Craig Williams: You know, you talked about document review. So, you’re at least in the discovery phase. But did you deal in a motion phase or the trial phase?
Rachel Gezerseh: I did, you know, and I was lucky. The firm gave actually pretty decent opportunities for a larger big law firm to more junior associate. So, I was involved in some big trials coming in and I got to see that phase and certainly there was a lot of motion practice and depositions and I feel like I was given those opportunities but the problem is, is there’s often as shift in the types of cases that come in and in larger sort of business-focused cases, you just don’t get those opportunities. Those cases aren’t going to trial.
They’re just many, many, many years of being, you know, stuck in that sort of discovery phase in litigation. And so, you don’t get those opportunities or at least I wasn’t. So, you know, hence, my unhappiness.
J. Craig Williams: Right. Well, in my experience, I was — during loss and the legal clinic inside got some trial work in jury and bench trial work and then after law school, I got seconded to the district attorney’s office here locally in San Bernardino County. So I got a ton of trial experience. But there’s a track and, you know, we talked about tracks in law school tracks to become a professor, tracks to become a judge and the track to become a lawyer to big law firm and also tracks to, you know, reach nonprofit corporations in the like. What was the track that you followed to get into big law?
Rachel Gezerseh: Well, to get in, it was a challenge because I went to Southwestern Law School which has, you know, puts lawyers, places lawyers in big law but it’s really, you know, the top, top, top of the class that gets in. And for me, I was in the top 10% of the class but I was — I think I was like the lowest person in the top 10%. So not really in that top, top, top part. And that’s a challenge as school like Southwestern because the on-campus interview program is pretty limited to those very top students. So you really do have to hustle to get those opportunities which is what I did. And you know, I talk about that in my book, the hustle is really about research and making these connections with lawyers in the industry that you’re targeting early on, so that you don’t have to rely on the on-campus interviewing process. You can actually create those opportunities yourself, which is exactly what I did. And because of that, I was able to self-generate callbacks callback interviews, which is, you know what you’re hoping to get from that on-campus, interviewing part of your journey. I was able to do that and then connect with people in big law and create those opportunities for myself. So, that’s how I got in the door. And then once you’re in the door, as a summer associate, then it’s all about, you know, really planting out that career path and doing well in big law, you know, raising your hand and showing up for the work that you want. It’s a constant process.
J. Craig Williams: Right. Do you think it’s fairly typical for the large big law firms to look to the say top 10 schools in the U.S. News & World Report rankings and say we’re going to cherry-pick the top students from the top schools?
Rachel Gezerseh: Well, certainly, you know, the big law firms target the top schools, but to their credit, I think that they will consider top students from all law schools because really the big law firms and, you know, large firms or just forms in general are looking for top-tier talent and they do understand. I mean, they get it that there is top-tier talent at a “lower-ranked” law school those who have distinguished themselves even in that pool will be good fits for the law firm. So, I think that, you know, big law generally will look into it, but it’s all about connecting with those decision-makers as a law student. And so, that’s why, you know, you can’t just rely on your law school and you can’t just rely on on-campus interview. You actually have to take it upon yourself to make those connections and make your name known to the decision-makers who are making those decisions at the big law firms.
J. Craig Williams: One of the things I recommended to potential to students who were becoming potential lawyers when I’ve counseled them is to say to go to the local bar association meetings and start to meet lawyers, join as a student. What’s your thought about that?
Rachel Gezerseh: No, that’s a great idea. And I think you know, what the pandemic has sort of upended everyone’s lives and you know, caused us to go much more online, but it’s provided to in my view law students with a whole new way of connecting. So you can go in-person to the these events where you’ll find lawyers, but then you can also watch Webinars and find out who lawyers are that way? I mean, there’s a lot of online and Zoom content now that law students can connect with and join where they don’t even have to go in person anymore and they can still meet people or get to know people and then connect that way. So, I think it’s a really great thing for law students to do because there’s a two-fold benefit. One, you get to meet people and grow your network and two, you get to learn about the industry which is a huge part of what I talk about in the book. You need to educate yourself and connect truly with what’s going on in the industry and the parts of it that you’re interested in and then you also need to grow your network and meet people and have this band of advocates who will help you in your journey towards getting the job that’s a good fit for you.
J. Craig Williams: Let’s talk about the actual process that a student goes through to get a job starting with becoming a summer associate perhaps in your second year or first year. And then walk us through how you go about specifically shopping for a job in addition to what you talked about in terms of reaching out beyond this typical process.
Rachel Gezerseh: Right. So, I advocate and you know, which is why I really wrote the book not just for people currently in law school but for people who are considering law school. So college students who are considering taking the LSAT, you know, that early, early times, because I really believe that as you move along this process, your time becomes more and more limited. Law school itself is a great time but it’s a very, very busy time where you need to be focusing on your academics. So if you, as a college student, can actually start building out and educating yourselves on the industry and building out your network early on, it’s all the more it’ll pay such greater dividends for you as you go through this process. And there’s no — despite what you might think when you go into law school, there is no typical path. The typical path for big law is that you would do very, very well in your first year of law school, you get very good grades and get in that top ten or 5% and then you would be selected for on-campus interviewing, you would then at that point get to meet a bunch of big law firms and then get call and get your summer associate job. That would be the most typical path. But when I advocate in the book and what I really believe is that this, you know, you can actually build out a much better path for yourself if you build out a network before law school even. And you get to know lawyers, you get to educate yourself because maybe you don’t even want big law. Maybe you want to become a trial attorney, what I’ve become now, right? A plaintiff trial attorney at a smaller plaintiff firm. Maybe you want to go work in entertainment. All of that takes educating yourselves, figuring out what you want, meeting lawyers in the industry and then doing what you know, which the cornerstone of my book and my whole process is doing informational interviews with real lawyers doing the work you think you want to do to see if you even want to do it, because you’re not going to learn from a law firm website or a law school website. What real lawyers do, you’re going to learn that from meeting and talking with real lawyers and figuring out what they do on a day-to-day basis.
J. Craig Williams: Right. And let’s talk about that network that you wanted to develop because not only is a network I think important for you to get into law school but the same network and maybe even a broader one while you’re a lawyer is what makes you a partner.
Rachel Gezerseh: Absolutely, and that’s for business development purposes, for career development purposes. There is nothing better than having a strong network of advocates who will help you progress, you know, they call it the practice of law for a reason because it’s really hard and on a daily basis, you’re presented with challenges and you need to practice and get better and you make mistakes and it’s just the best thing ever to be able to call up someone who isn’t your boss, who’s in your network, who can help you and give advice and just help you through this very difficult challenging and rewarding career that we have.
J. Craig Williams: Right. Let’s — also that range of careers that are available like just for example, I had two roommates throughout law school, one roommate went into the Jag Corps, the Judge Advocate General Corps for the Army, and another, my other roommate went and became a political consultant in Washington D.C. So for the people that are considering it, what kind of jobs are available out there for lawyers.
Rachel Gezerseh: I mean, you’d know that there’s so — the range and just the amount of work that you can do with this law degree is just, I mean, the world is your oyster and I think, you know, on the flip side of that people there, so many unhappy lawyers right? There’s so many people, you know, there’s this concept of the golden handcuffs and you know, my law school loans and you get stuck in this job that you actually hate. And the reality of it is we can do anything with this law degree and there’s so many things that you could do with it, but you got to find that, you got to figure it out, and a lot of that is about doing this upfront work and meeting lawyers, finding out what people do, seeing if it’s truly something that you could see yourself doing and then plugging in and trying it. The beautiful thing about law school is you can do externships, you know, you can go work at a firm for a semester. You can work there at the summer. You can see if you like it and if you don’t, then you go back to the drawing board and you try something else.
J. Craig Williams: In law school, there’s a certain resume building that you can do as well as when you graduate. For example, I think you were both in moot court and on law review.
Rachel Gezerseh: That’s right. And I worked for a judge which to me was the absolute best thing I did in law school. And if I could have done it throughout law school, I would have. Because in that, you know, you really learn when you’re working and chambers, you get to see the sort of behind the scenes, how the judge actually formulates her, his opinions. How they work it up. You know, what they really think about the lawyers who are presenting their cases to them in the courtroom and you really get to see from a neutral perspective, you know, how the sausage is made.
And I think it makes you a better lawyer to have that understanding. And so, I highly recommend that all students do some sort of judicial externship, judicial internship, whatever they call it during law school or in the summer.
J. Craig Williams: Rachel, we need to take a quick break and hear a word from our sponsor. We will be right back.
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J. Craig Williams: And welcome back to Lawyer 2 Lawyer on the Legal Talk Network. I’m joined by Rachel Gezerseh, trial attorney and author of the book, The Law Career Playbook: The Gorilla Guide to Getting a Legal Job You Actually Like. Right before the break, you mentioned the kind of the practical aspects of you learning from a judge how both sides present themselves. But there’s also lawyers who are out there that are going to go into the direct practice of law. How important is it during law school that we’re take taking these practical courses to teach you how to practice law.
Rachel Gezerseh: It’s really important because, you know, a lot of the complaints that I’ve heard and I think experience myself was, you know, law school is sort of this bubble and then you get to the practice of law, you know, for me that was joining Jones Day and you feel like you’re actually not prepared. You’ve done all of this stuff in the bubble, you know, academically, and then the practice of law is actually this massive challenge. And so, if you can in law school take practical courses on how to litigate, you know, how to advocate, how to write a motion even how to do discovery. If those classes are available to you, you should take them because as a, you know, attorney when you come in that’s the kind of stuff you’re going to be doing as a new lawyer, and having those practical skills will ease that transition for you so much more.
J. Craig Williams: You know, I was lucky during law school that the Iowa Writers School opened up their doors to lawyers to help us learn our potential law students to teach us how to write. But what role does writing play and how important is it for you to learn as a student, as a law student how to write.
Rachel Gezerseh: I think it’s everything. You know, we’ve watched these lawyers shows on TV and, you know, they’re all in the courtroom and they’re all, you know, advocating verbally, but that reality of it is most of the time you are spending at your computer, writing the word, your advocacy, what makes the difference in the courtroom is actually what your briefing. And if you don’t have those skills, those writing skills, the ability to, you know, put your client’s story down on paper and get it across in a succinct way, then you won’t make it as a lawyer. The writing is absolutely the most important thing to focus on.
J. Craig Williams: Right. And the gentleman who re-wrote Black’s Law Dictionary, Bryan Garner, and I’m just going to give him a free plug here, he gives writing seminars, and they are absolutely spectacular, and I would highly recommend students as well as young lawyers taking those classes to or seminars to learn how to write correctly. I think you’re exactly right, Rachel. It’s tremendously important. Well, you mentioned resume building and we talked about it and networking. What specific tips do you have to build your network and to build your resume.
Rachel Gezerseh: Right. If my book is all about that is the central tenet and it’s informational interviews and really just — and it’s a really great thing because you can sort of take, you can become — I say it become the CEO of me, right? You can take your career in your own hands this way and you can plot it out and be very strategic with an informational interview. And what I mean by that is, you know, you use powerful tools that we have online now like LinkedIn. Everyone listening to this who’s not already a member of — who hasn’t joined LinkedIn should because you can — on LinkedIn, you can put your resume up, you can have this outward facing professional profile to the world and then you can also use LinkedIn’s very powerful research tools to identify people doing the kind of work that you want to do and then you can reach out to them and meet them and, you know, as I said before, the beautiful thing about the online Zoom world that we live in now is you can request.
Instead of requesting of 15-minute coffee meetings, right, which for some lawyers is a bit of a burden on their time, you can do a 15-minute Zoom meeting with them now, and that’ll be much easier for them to schedule and much easier for you to get access, and you can do these informational interviews to get to know people doing the kind of work that you want to do. And I always tell my students and I tell the readers of my book you got to be a sponge. It’s not about, you know, it’s not about you getting a job right now, it’s about learning and growing from the people that you’re meeting and building out this network of advocates who are going to help you find that perfect job for you.
J. Craig Williams: Right. And I really want to emphasize your recommendation of informational interviews, especially for as you mentioned law students before they go to law school interviews, some other lawyers to find out what you like to do, what you might not like to do. But that leads us to the question of when you graduate, how do you stand out from the competition and what’s admittedly a very competitive field.
Rachel Gezerseh: Great. I mean, I think it’s because you’ve built up this network you — and I truly believe as I talked about it in the book this concept of the hidden job market. So it’s true. So, if there’s a posted job opening on LinkedIn or wherever, even at your law school, it’s very true that there’s probably going to be hundreds of resumes going in for that posted job opening and it’s very hard to distinguish yourself. Probably the only way to distinguish yourself as you’ve already know someone who works at that place of legal employment that has the opening and they can put in a good word for you. But the beauty of the hidden job market is that if you’ve built out this network and you and people know you, they know your skills, they know the type of job that would be perfect for you and they’re advocating for you behind the scenes, when an opening comes up at a law firm or at, you know, at a studio or whatever it is that you’re looking, they’ll think of you first because they know you’re looking, they know who you are and then they submit your materials or you — you know, they’ll call you up and they’ll say, hey, Rachel, there’s this opening came up at my place, no one knows about it yet. Send me your resume. I’m going to get you an interview there. This happens all the time. This is actually how people get their jobs mostly in our industry. It’s certainly how I got my dream job, the job that I currently have that wasn’t a posted opening. There was a need at my firm and people at the firm who knew me knew I was looking and they called me up. I had a lunch and I was hired and that’s just the way it usually works and that’s how you distinguish yourself because you’ve already distinguished yourself.
J. Craig Williams: Right. And there’s also some specialized personal branding and marketing that you mentioned in your book.
Rachel Gezerseh: know, once you’ve determined what you want and the position that you want, the law for if you want to work at, the type of work you want to do, you can build your materials around that and I call it building a narrative. So, everything that you do, the way you write your resume, the words on the page, how you design them, everything you say when you meet people is built around this narrative of what you want to do, and it’s how you frame yourself so that, you know, when this opening arises, you know exactly how to frame your experience and your skill set so that it’s the best fit for the opportunity.
J. Craig Williams: Now you made a big switch in your career moving from Jones Day and defense work to Panish’s firm which is a very well-known and respected plaintiff’s firm. Isn’t that a big shift in mentality.
Rachel Gezerseh: Know, it is, but the beautiful thing and this was, you know, it’s so funny, right? It’s like reverse engineering because I wrote the book before I had this experience of making that shift but I used all of my own advice to my advantage and it worked and that really, you know, you have a skill set no matter what. You have life experience and you have a skill set that you bring to the table. Then it’s a question of how do you tailor that and make that look, you know, framing it in a way that for this potential employer where they can really see how that what you’re bringing to the table will actually benefit them, right? So I had a skill set that I had built up in over a decade of working at Jones Day, litigation skills, storytelling skills, clients, you know, where I had really — you know, whether even though they were in defense, I had advocated for them, told their story and had a good result. So, taking all of that and shifting it to what I would be doing on the plaintiff side really sold those package and sold those skills in a way that it made sense that I was the best person for the opportunity. So, it’s really about, you know, taking a hard look at what you’re bringing to the table and reframing it to opportunities that you’re now shifting to that you know, sure, they’re very, very different, but frankly, you know, the skill set is the same.
J. Craig Williams: Let’s talk briefly about the differences between big law, medium-sized law and small or solo practices. I mean both you and I have worked in big law firms and are familiar with the 90-hour weeks and maybe even more.
What’s life in the other lanes like.
Rachel Gezerseh: Well, you know, it’s funny that I talked about this with my colleagues now. You know, I can work an 80-hour week now, but it doesn’t feel like work anymore. And that’s really — I think that’s really the big difference for me is I 1000% love what I do now, because I really do feel like on a daily basis, even though a lot of the work can be the same. The same discovery stuff, the same sort of paperwork and the same sitting at the computer but I do really feel like I’m making a daily difference in people’s lives. So, it’s less — I don’t plus I don’t have to build the hours anymore which is nice but really, you know, it’s the mindset for me has completely changed on the hourly and I can put in the hours now and it doesn’t even feel like work.
J. Craig Williams: Right, and that’s a big change from the way you felt in big law. Overworked, underappreciated and really not able to do to kind of change in people’s lives and you removing dollars as opposed to helping people.
Rachel Gezerseh: Well, I just think it’s a fit thing. Look, I know I have met unhappy lawyers across the board and it is really — and that’s why it’s a central focus of my book is to — it is about fit and where you fit best and there’s many components to that, right? It can be the people that you’re working with, the clients that you’re servicing, the types of things that you’re working on, what makes you happy to get up in the morning and work on and that could be in big law. I don’t, you know, I do know happy lawyers in big law because they’ve found that perfect fit and what they’re good at. It just wasn’t for me. And my — what I did wrong was I just I was so happy at Jones Day with sort of the office and the people there, I stayed too long because I was comfortable, but when not getting that full engagement on your actual day-to-day what you’re doing, then yeah, you’re not going to be happy. And so, you know, that’s why it always goes back to exploring within yourself what is it that makes me happy to get up in the morning and work on that day.
J. Craig Williams: How do you learn that?
Rachel Gezerseh: I think it’s a process of elimination and a process of research and a process of putting it out there in speaking to other lawyers and especially as a newer lawyer or a law student or a college student, educating yourself early on these things is going to pay dividends because then you’ll know. I mean, a lot of people go to law school really not knowing that the true reality of what we do and you know what it really means to be a lawyer and if you can plug in and educate yourself on those things early, it’ll have huge benefits for you beyond having this great network or getting a good job, you’ll actually know what you’re getting into.
J. Craig Williams: Right. And let’s talk about what I would consider to be — what, in the military, we called Mustangs those officers who were first enlisted men or enlisted women. How does it work with paralegals and secretaries aspiring to be lawyers.
Rachel Gezerseh: Who want to — who are currently working in a law firm.
J. Craig Williams: Currently, right. Currently working as a paralegal or a secretary. What steps do they need to take to become a lawyer.
Rachel Gezerseh: Right. Well, I think you know that and I have met there were a couple of women that I knew who started at Jones Day in either a project assistant role or a paralegal role and then eventually went to law school and that they can have a huge advantage because they actually talking about how the sausage is made. They truly understand what it takes, you know, to excel on, you know, many aspects especially on the litigation front, right? And then they can take that skill set, go to law school and bring something to the table that a lot of people just wouldn’t have. So, I think it’s a great path if you want to follow it. It’s just a matter of, you know, how you accomplish that. You know, there are schools, Southwestern and other local California schools that have night programs where you could work as a paralegal during the day and then go at night and then merge those two together and I think that that is an amazing way to approach it if that’s what you want to do.
J. Craig Williams: Right, and just for informational purposes and although Iowa no longer has the program. I went through law school on the accelerator program where you basically went all your round and finished an — just a little bit over two years is because I was five years after law school when I started and to drop from making money to spending money is a big change.
Rachel Gezerseh: Right. No, that makes — that’s great.
J. Craig Williams: Right. Well, Rachel, looks like we’ve just about reached the end of our program. So, I’d like to take this opportunity to share your final thoughts, your contact information and where our listeners can get your book, The Law Career Playbook: The Gorilla Guide to Getting a Legal Job You Actually Like.
Rachel Gezerseh: Yes. So, I — the book is available on Amazon for anybody. I did write the book — it’s actually I just celebrated my three-year anniversary with the book and it’s still helping a lot of people which just makes me so happy. And I’m always open answering questions from readers.
You can reach me at my work email which is [email protected] I also have some updated materials. I have an updated career spreadsheet that people can use and I’m happy to send that to anybody who is interested. And as far as final thoughts, I just — I think anybody who’s going to go on this journey, whatever you can do to arm yourself, educate yourself, really understand what you’re getting into. I think that that’s the best way to approach it but it can be such a fulfilling career and I welcome everyone to it.
J. Craig Williams: Great. Well, it’s been a fantastic discussion and as we wrap up, I’d like to thank our guest, Rachel Gezerseh for joining us today. It’s been a pleasure having you on the show.
Rachel Gezerseh: Thank you. It’s my privilege.
J. Craig Williams: So, Rachel’s exactly right as a potential lawsuit, you need to really explore what is out there? There’s such a range from working to non-profit corporations to not working as a lawyer but needing the education which you’re going to work in government or in congress or back in Washington, D.C. You can serve in the military. There’s just a ton of options for lawyers as a career path, judges and professors in all different educational requirements to get to those points. So, it’s important to take those informational interviews which is just basically call someone up and say, I’d like to get some information from you about becoming a lawyer. I don’t need a job. I’m not asking you to hire me. And so, you reduce the resistance and people are always happy to help and will take the opportunity to do that at least my experience with lawyers has been. It’s important to understand where you’re going through, what classes you’re taking in law school and what extracurricular activities you’re going to participate in. We mentioned law review and court those are two very prominent ones that factor highly into selection process at larger firms and mid-sized firms and even some smaller firms. But you don’t even have to go out to join a law firm. You can go out directly become a solo lawyer practicing by yourself although, for the first five years, it makes a lot more sense to practice under someone else to get their experience and wisdom and have a mentor. But reach out, ask for help and you’ll more than likely get it from lawyers that are well established and well respected in their career, and those are the ones you want to talk to. Well, that’s it for Lawyer 2 Lawyer. If you like what you heard today, please rate us on Apple Podcast or your favorite podcasting app. You can visit us at legaltalknetwork.com where you can sign up for our newsletter. I’m Craig Williams. Thanks for listening. Please join us next time for another great legal topic. Remember, when you want legal, think Lawyer 2 Lawyer.
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