5 KPIs You Need Now; Asking the Right Questions About Software; & “Dream Podcast Music”

Episode Notes

Transcript

[Music]

Male: It’s the Legal Toolkit with Jared Correia.  With guests Andreas Becker, we play Dream Podcast Music, and then Jared, judges all other hosts past and present to see who can challenge him for supremacy.  But first, your host, Jared Correia.

Jared Correia: It’s the Legal Toolkit podcast. Do I sound like Evan? Or as my friends like to call it, I actually don’t have any friends anyway. And yes, it’s still called The Legal Toolkit podcast, even though I don’t own a grinder. And what the fuck is that exactly? Is it like Tinder but just for carpenters, like some farmers only shit? These dating sites are getting out of control. I’m your host, Jared Correia.  You’re stuck with me because Mr. Beast was unavailable. He was too busy giving me food poisoning with the now defunct Mr. Beast Burger and pushing these nuts on the American public. I’m the CEO of Red Cave Law Firm Consulting, a business management consulting service for attorneys and bar associations. Find us online at redcavelegal.com.  I’m the COO of Gideon Software, which builds chatbots and conversational document assembly tools for law firms. Check out our new e-signature platform at gideonlegal.com.

Now, before we get to our interview today about software demos with my homie, Andreas Becker. Let’s talk about I mean, what the fuck? KPIs? Yeah. Let’s talk about KPIs. I’m not going to bore you with my old thesis on analytics, because I believe I’ve done this before on the podcast. Now, you know I’m a data hound. I’m terrible at math, always have been. I stopped, like, understanding math effectively when I hit precalculus, but I do like numbers and simple statistics. So this has infected baseball and other sports, like the money ball stuff, wall street people use analytics and data and statistics, manufacturing basically invented lean methodology where are lawyers to be found. I don’t know. They sure ain’t using KPIs.

So I’ve talked before about different KPIs that you can use in your firm. Now, I want to break that down into five categories financial metrics, marketing metrics, performance metrics, DIY KPIs, fun stuff, creating new KPIs.  Five categories, okay. Let’s talk about your financial metrics. What numbers should you be looking at in your practice related to your revenue? Number one, if you get a profit and loss statement, guess what? That gives you some idea of what your profitability is. How much money do you actually make after you pay your overhead. You should be running accounts receivable reports as well, 30, 60, 90 days out. Collection rate, how much money you make on your invoices that you send out. Realization rate, how much money gets written off of those invoices that you don’t have any chance to collect. Utilization rate, how much time do you and your staff actually bill or perform work during the work day? All those are great financial metrics that should be table stakes for law firms at this point. And really, the utilization rate one is probably the most important because that allows you to run a more efficient law firm, which allows you to take on more work pretty easy.

That’s simple math takes you less time to do the cases you have. You can take on more cases or go on vacation. Fuck it. Yeah, go on vacation. Other financial metrics, average value per case so you can create revenue projections. Yeah, you should be doing that as 2024 approaches. Case type distribution, lawyers always get this wrong when I ask them. How many cases do you have in this area? What percentage of your practice does that represent? The guess is always wrong. Revenue per square foot. How much office space do you really need? Payment type distribution. How are people paying you? How do they want to pay you? And if you run billing codes or billing descriptions, you can search those too to see what kind of work you do the most of so many enjoyable financial metrics. We’re going to do this quick, so I hope you’re taking notes. No, don’t take notes. You can just listen to this again.

Marketing metrics segment two, cost per lead. Most lawyers are out there doing networking, and they don’t affiliate the costs with networking to getting a lead. Client acquisition cost, you’ve heard that which is slightly different than cost per lead, because what you’re looking at there is like, okay, how much does it cost me to actually convert a client? There are steps beyond just getting a lead that potentially costs money and time that you should be looking at. What’s your conversion rate in total and what’s your conversion rate of wanted clients, like people that you actually want to work with, right?

(00:05:08)

Segment efficiency, how quickly are you getting through the different phases of a case in the same way that you would think about how quickly you’re getting through the phases of building a car. What could be next and more exciting than this? Now, we’ve walked through financial metrics, but guess what? I have more for you. Performance metrics. So what kind of performance metrics should you be looking at in your law firm? Well, all those financial metrics and marketing metrics I talk about, guess what? You could apply those firm wide, or you could apply those to individual performers in the firm. So you got a bunch of performance metrics we already addressed. How about proficiency within the firm?

It’s easier to track how fast someone works, and it’s tougher to track the quality of that work. So that’s more of a qualitative analysis. So how do you apply some quantitative analysis to that? We’ll grade people. Somebody’s given you an assignment who’s an associate who’s not performing at the level you want, grade 10 random assignments and figure out what grade they have 1 out of 10, A through F and then compare that with other associates to get a baseline. Like, what’s the performance level you’re looking for in the firm, and how can you grow that performance and make it better. We’ll talk more about that in a second because that’s super interesting.

Okay, number four, category number four, DIY KPIs. Do it yourself KPIs. So law firms are different in the sense that they’re going to have different KPIs that are useful for specific firms that may not be useful for other firms. So you can use these generic ones I talked about, but you can also create some specific ones that work just for your firms. Let’s talk about some of those. If you’re a personal injury firm, what about one demand letter per week? If you’re a firm that needs some more professional development out of your associates, why don’t you give them two hours a week to do some training and then also retrain, like, talk about what they learned, teach it to somebody else in the firm. That’s a great investment as well.

If you’re a firm that takes on settlements, maybe you try to reduce the disbursement time from one month to two weeks. If you’ve got somebody who’s managing intake for you, maybe the play is, let’s set up a KPI so that we reach 24 hours to schedule an initial consultation after a lead first reaches out. If you’re an estate planning firm, maybe you want to have six design and vision meetings every month to get to your revenue numbers. These are actually real KPIs that I’ve worked on with various firms that I consult with. So think about what works within your practice and use that, too.

Now how about creating new KPIs? Totally new KPIs for legal, because we’re borrowing these from other industries. I talked about before like, what’s the baseline of an effective associate in your firm? Well, there’s a great baseball statistic called WAR, Wins Over Replacement, which takes a regular player, an average player in baseball, and compares it to other individuals to see how much more value they have than your average player. So Shohei Ohtani, baseball unicorn, he’s got a crazy WAR, which means if you acquire somebody like Shohei Ohtani, he’s going to give your team like seven to eight more wins this season than the average player. You can do something like that in legal if you’re tracking people’s efficiency and proficiency.

How about churn rate, which is taken from the technology software world. How many people do you lose off subscriptions? If you’re a law firm that’s running subscriptions, you want to know what your churn rate is because you want to keep people on those subscriptions. Marketing click through rate, how many people actually click on your stuff like you send them an email, but what do they do with it? Monthly active users is another really interesting KPI from the software field that lawyers don’t use. If you’re a software company, you want to make sure that people are not only subscribing to your software, but that they’re actually using it because that’s going to reduce your way for a churn rate.

Now, as a lawyer, you’re in position to be really effective here because you can use new tools like client portals to make sure that you’re consistently engaging with your clients and they’re consistently engaging with you. Net promoter score is another one borrowed from other industries. You send out a single survey request, which is how likely would you be to send us a referral on the scale of one to ten. The higher that number is, the more effective your firm is at customer service like fucking A. That’s a lot of numbers. I went to law school to not do math. How do I manage all this stuff? Well, the good news is that some of this stuff is rendered automatically in the software you’re using.  So for financial KPIs, we’ll get your case management software, look at your time billing software, look at your accounting software. For marketing KPIs, we’ll get your customer relationship management software, your intake tools, your web analytics tools, and even call monitoring programs like CallRail.

(00:10:03)

Jared Correia: For performance KPIs, you got those grades you’re giving on your own, but you’ve also got a case management software, account and billing software, customer relationship management software, tons of different places to pull the status from. So, guess what, that all means there’s no excuse any longer. Get your KPIs up and running. Let’s find out more about what our sponsors can do for your busy law practice. Before we talk with Andreas Becker about asking the right questions around software. Then stay tuned as we talk about podcast intro and outro songs and the one and only Rump Roast.

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[Music]

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[Music]

Jared Correia: Okay, everybody, let’s get to the meet in the middle of this legal podcasting sandwich. Today’s meet Rocky Mountain oysters, which are, well, that’s probably better left unsaid. All right, that’s enough of that bullshit. Let’s talk to our guest. We have today in his first, and hopefully not his last appearance on the Legal Toolkit Podcast. Andreas Becker, the Director of Business Development at Lawyaw, which is a Clio company. Andreas, welcome to the show. How are you doing, man?

Andreas Becker: What an intro.

Jared Correia: Not bad, right?

Andreas Becker: Pretty good. And then let’s just see how this goes.

Jared Correia: Good. It’s going to be all right. It’s going to be a list of five to ten podcasts. I feel strongly about that. You just did this Clio thing with Lawyaw, right. So, talk to me about that. You guys were like a smaller team, you got acquired by a big company. What’s that like?

Andreas Becker: Oh, you want to — you want to go straight in.

Jared Correia: We don’t fuck around here.

Andreas Becker: Yeah, yeah, no. That’s a fair question.

Jared Correia: Now this is the part where you say Clio has been fucking amazing.

Andreas Becker: And they have. I mean it’s been a really crazy process. I’m kind of starting out working at Lawyaw with one of my classmates from law school and doing the small start-up thing and having the strong partnership with Clio and to be sitting at their offices in Tron right now. It’s been a trip.

Jared Correia: Yeah.

Andreas Becker: For sure.

Jared Correia: Right. Adjustment sounds like it’s been pretty good though. This is a big change, you know. I probably liking it to being it like a small Catholic school, not to get religious on you, and then going to like a big university, right? Like that would be kind of what it was like, I would think.

Andreas Becker: Okay, okay. So this actually works as I went to parochial school through high school and then went to Santa Barbara for undergrad. That’s my first public school experience. I would say that that’s a pretty strained analogy actually. I don’t think it quite tracks but I wanted to give you something.

Jared Correia: Thank you, I appreciate that.

Andreas Becker: Yeah, absolutely.

Jared Correia: Don’t make me look like a total asshole on my own show. I’m a good man.

Andreas Becker: No. I mean you’ll probably — you can edit it out. This has been just a huge learning process for I think Clio, for ourselves, obviously. You’ve seen all sorts of consolidation in the space in general.

Jared Correia: Right.

Andreas Becker: So all of these companies are going through similar ebbs and flows of understanding how to onboard a new team.

Jared Correia: That’s good point.

Andreas Becker: Obviously, the new technology, but so much of it is about the people to be perfectly honest.

Jared Correia: I think good point.

Andreas Becker: Clio’s done a really good job of that because the challenges are going to be there from a technology standpoint, but making sure that the people feel supported. It’s going to be hard. It’s not going to be easy but to exhibit the support that Clio has is why I’m still here.

Jared Correia: Right, right, because you can move on if you get to new company and like, I feel like Clio hasn’t been insanely aggressive about bringing on tons of different software providers. They’ve been very choosy about who they’ve added, which is like kudos to you and Tucker.

Andreas Becker: Yeah, they definitely have, and I think it kind of fits their model as well, kind of the sales force at the legal tech space.

(00:15:04)

They’re not, you know, we’re going to do everything all in one, work on a partner with best-in-class point solutions and vendors, and be able to hook up with them and pass data back and forth and integrate really well, and they make strategic bets. But no, I don’t think they — I think it’s fair classification. They haven’t been overly aggressive.

Jared Correia: And that’s a good analogy. Clio is a salesforce of legal. Okay, so, I’m not going to blindside you with anything else. We’re done with the blindsiding. You were talking to me — you said something really interesting to me when we were talking about what to discuss. I thought it was super interesting when you were like, okay, these lawyers, they’re so aggressive about protecting their time especially the billable hour attorneys. And then I’ll get on a fucking demo for like 30 minutes to 60 minutes, and they won’t have any kind of plan, no clue what to ask about, no strategy. Like why is that? That is so weird.

Andreas Becker: Again, these are your worries.

Jared Correia: Yeah, these are my worries.

Andreas Becker: (00:15:59) your words, but yes.

Jared Correia: I own all the shit. Yeah, okay, cool. Walk me back down. Talk me down.

Andreas Becker: So, I think there’s so many attorneys who have it really figured out and come to, you know, any one of these consultations, I don’t like doing a demo. I don’t need my salespeople to get on a call just to walk someone through the plat. That is not the point of this. It is, we talked with this many attorneys and these many practice areas. These are the patterns that we see. Help us flesh things out for you. Otherwise, what exactly do you want me to show you? I can show you the general flow. I could send you a video. I’m not saying don’t take demos. I’m not saying that. I’m just saying like if you get certain questions from a good “salesperson and account executive,” they’re doing it for a reason. It’s all designed to be quick, but to get to the heart of the matter. And if you just want to like, you know, if you just want to see the platform — yeah, the magic words are I’m really, really curious about this stuff. I saw this here and here. I don’t really know quite yet what I might use it for but I think I’ll have a better idea once I get into the platform. Could I just see it? I mean if you want to get into the screen share but you want to talk with someone along the way to kind of like get a feel for things. If you’re short on time, that’s a good way to do it. But there’s certain questions that someone’s going to ask you. They’ll just calculate to understand like what’s the problem we’re trying to solve here. There’s so much software out there and so many things that people are telling you that you need and not everyone needs sophisticated legal document automation right now.  I mean anyone could get benefit from it, but I mean you have to justify the cost and all the different things like it doesn’t make sense for every single practice. Where it makes more sense for certain practices than others and you’re always prioritizing different things. So, that’s what those questions are calibrated to do. Like, let’s prioritize and figure out is there a problem that we can solve.

Jared Correia: I think that’s a really thoughtful response. So, these are questions that you and your sales team are asking of people, right?

Andreas Becker: Yeah.

Jared Correia: Okay. So trying to drive what the problem is. Now do you get attorneys who are like a hot bench where they’re like asking you a ton of questions and they want to take a deep dive into the software.

Andreas Becker: Definitely.

Jared Correia: Okay. But most of it is like hand-holding for you. Would it be fair to say, like 80% of the people you kind of have to walk through the process because they don’t know what they want? Or that would be high?

Andreas Becker: I think that’s high. I think it’s changing, like maybe four years ago when I was just starting and we were kind of selling different, you know, a different class of what we do now. People generally understood how it worked, but there was more hand-holding, and I think over the years document automation, I’m not going to say it’s table stakes but most people will have some familiarity with it. Even if they haven’t utilized it, they understand the basic concepts. And that wasn’t the case maybe three, four years ago.

Jared Correia: I feel like when the pandemic hit, like a lot of these lawyers who were just ignoring technology for a while, I got to figure it out a little bit, and they at least sort of asking more intelligent questions.

Andreas Becker: Hot take from Jared.

Jared Correia: I know, right. Lawyers don’t really get to — do you ever notice that lawyers are not super tech-savvy? But I do think like they’ve been asking questions in a different way to totally generalize. Like, in my practice, I get a lot of lawyers who come to me and they say before 2020, they’re like I’m really disorganized, I don’t know what the fuck to do. And now they’re telling me I need processes and workflows. It sounds like it was a similar thing for you. Where people are now probably coming to you and being like, “Hey, we need document assembly, document automation. Now, how do we get to the next step?” And I think that’s an important subtle difference.

(00:20:00)

Andreas Becker: So I’m just making the connection. You’re absolutely correct. The pandemic did. Yeah, change things across industries. It’s not industry specific but attorneys and this is an unsolicited sound bite that I’ve used in webinars before and I hope it’s not too condemning and I was the same way when I was practicing. I was an attorney who happened to I didn’t own a business but my dad was practicing. I was working with my dad. So I wasn’t thinking like a business owner. And the thing that I try and impart because I wasn’t good at it, my dad was, but I just didn’t have that sense is people attorneys should be thinking like business owners who happen to be an attorney or run a law practice. And the distinction can be subtle but when we’re thinking about as attorneys, we’re just so risk averse which is great for our clients.

Jared Correia: Right.

Andreas Becker: Can be problematic when we’re kind of like –.

Jared Correia: Not so great.

Andreas Becker: Trying to not get into that analysis paralysis and make decisions about tools to implement processes to build out, that sort of thing. And what’s interesting I’m just making the connection now is like when the pandemic hit, it wasn’t that just people were forced to like, oh, I need a cloud-based tool to do my court forms or to do document automation so people can work remotely. Now they’re thinking about the next disaster. They’re not the disaster, but like, what’s that next thing? I mean, again, we’re just doing strain analogies all over the place. Maybe that everyone was hit and now they’re asking a different class of questions.

Jared Correia: That’s good.

Andreas Becker: And AI has definitely we get people coming in all the time. What’s the AI components like, well, we’re just doing the document automation component but those are good questions. But it’s good that these types of developments are kind of pushing the issue.

Jared Correia: Well, let me ask you. So you got some people coming in. They’re asking questions. They’re a hot bench. Sometimes you’re guiding people to like, “hey, what problem could we solve for you?” Maybe we can. Maybe we can’t. What about post demo? I’m a lawyer. I just saw this product. I’m fucking hot to try. I’m like, I could buy that shit. What do you do next as a lawyer? Do you take a trial account? Do you try to learn more about it? Do you talk to other attorneys? What’s the best things to do to make that decision?

Andreas Becker: Okay. So if you are an attorney, throw down the credit card. Just throw down the credit card. No, I think you should definitely listen to business development guy. Listen to friends. Look at websites that have done reviews, test the salesperson. If they’re confident in their product, they’ll give you a couple of other tools to check out. I do that. If I think someone’s a better fit based on their specific needs, I would absolutely tell them look at this tool because it might meet these certain needs. If I think — because I don’t need a soft maybe.  If I don’t think they’re a fit, then I’m going to tell them to go somewhere else. If I think it’s up in the air, then it’s a discussion about prioritization of needs that each different vendor meets. And I’ve never gone wrong. It’s never worked against me to just be as objective, try and be as objective.

Jared Correia: I think it’s really cool that you take that approach. All right. So I’m going to throw you one more question here in the official interview part of the podcast which I think is a softball question. We’ll see.

Andreas Becker: Okay.

Jared Correia: What’s the one question that every law firm should ask on a product demo? Is there one or a consultation as you guys call it?

Andreas Becker: I would just ask what is the number one problem that people come to you that you think you can solve. Because that then definitely because that will open up a couple of different avenues potentially. They’ll say it kind of depends on your practice area. It depends on the size, the composition, the user, what have you, regardless of the product. But that’s a really fair and open question because we want to ask you, the consultants want to ask open questions, not yes, nos. And that’s an open question to be asking, like, tell me who gets the most value out of your tool based on what you know about my practice and that kind of creates this social contract to give them some experience. What are you seeing? What are the trends that you see? And then attorneys are really good at reading people. We’re not going to bullshit anyone. We’re not going to fool anyone. So I think asking a question like that and seeing if someone can be objective and not be overly salesy and really kind of tie back. Were they listening to everything that you spoke to when they were kind of trying to figure out the problems that you were listing?

Jared Correia: Right.

Andreas Becker: I think that’s a fair question. I mean, there are probably some better ones but have an idea –.

Jared Correia: That’s a good one.

Andreas Becker: — what you want to get out of that 30 minutes or that 20 minutes or that sometimes it’s 45 minutes. It says, what do you want to get out of this? What’s the problem you want to solve? And then can you solve that? Can you guys solve this thing? That’s a yes no, but, like, how are you going to solve this?

(00:25:01)

Jared Correia: Excellent work, sir, as usual.

Andreas Becker: Thanks.

Jared Correia: Will you hang around for the rump roast?

Andreas Becker: No, I got to go.

Jared Correia: All right, man. We’ll figure something else out. No, Andreas we’ll be back. We’ll take one final sponsor break so you can hear more about our sponsor companies and their latest service offerings then stay tuned for the rump roast. It’s even more supple than the roast beast.

Conrad Saam: Hey Gyi, what’s up?

Gyi Tsakalakis: Just having some lunch, Conrad.

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Gyi Tsakalakis: Oh, you mean that guy out there in the gray suit?

Conrad Saam: Yeah, the gray suit guy.

Gyi Tsakalakis: There’s all those beautiful rich leather bound books in the background?

Conrad Saam: That is exactly the one. That’s JD MacGuffin at Law. He’ll fight for you. I bet you he has got so many years of experience like decades and decades. And I bet Gyi, that he even went to a law school.

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[Music]

Dave Scriven-Young: You like legal podcasts because you’re curious and want to be the best attorney you can be. I’m Dave Scriven-Young, host of Litigation Radio, produced by ABA’s Litigation Section with Legal Talk Network. Search in your favorite podcast player for Litigation Radio to join me and my guests as we examine hot topics in litigation and topics that will help you to develop your litigation skills and build your practice.

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Jared Correia: Welcome, welcome, friends, to the rear-end of the Legal Toolkit. That’s right. It’s once again the rump roast. It’s a grab bag of short form topics, all of my choosing. Why do I get to pick? Because I’m the host. Well, actually, that’s not entirely true this time because my guy Andreas came up with a phenomenal subject for what might end up being the rumpiest of roasts. So, Andreas, we were talking about your podcast that you’re planning to launch, right?

Andreas Becker: Oh, yeah.

Jared Correia: You’re going to launch a podcast but –.

Andreas Becker: We’re in stealth mode.

Jared Correia: — in stealth mode for the podcast. So we were kind of spit balling about intro music, outro music, and we were talking about, like, boy, it’d be great to have whatever song we wanted but all the really good songs are too expensive because they have royalties attached to them which is why you hear, like, generic, royalty free music on our podcast. But I think pretty good generic, royalty free music. So what we’re going to do is you and I are going to relay our top intro songs for podcasts. If you could pick whatever song you wanted to without royalties being an issue and then we’re each going to name an outro song. So I have no idea what you picked. You have no idea what I picked. And we’re going to be able to comment on this. So being the guest, I would like you to start. So start with your worst and move to your best.

Andreas Becker: The worst of the worst of the best you mean?

Jared Correia: The worst of the best.

Andreas Becker: So I liked Midnight Rider by Gregg Allman.

Jared Correia: Oh, yeah. Why? I mean, why not, right?

Andreas Becker: But it’s kind of like, why not? But I like how everything kind of comes in the podcast that I really like. You can kind of trail off once the vocals start. You get a little bit of the vocal, but you get a nice build up in the guitar or whatever.

Jared Correia: Yes.

Andreas Becker: I got to well. Oh, I’m not going to sing.

Jared Correia: You could sing. You just did. You just sang.

Andreas Becker: Yeah, I know, but my voice is about to crack. I could trail off a couple seconds after and you kind of maybe hear Midnight Rider at the end and then we get into it. So I’m always looking for something. Put a lot of thought into my songs in this stealth mode.

Jared Correia: That is great. I think we’re vibing in the same area here because I like the –.

Andreas Becker: I’m like (00:29:13) pretty soon.

Jared Correia: Okay. Okay. Me too. I like the Gregg Allman sound. So my number four of four is a song by Steve Earle.

Andreas Becker: What’s the name of it?

Jared Correia: Steve Earle’s got the song called I Feel Alright. I love these quietly menacing songs. It’s like just chill song. But you know this guy’s seen some shit, right? The narrator?

Andreas Becker: Yeah, he’s like —

Jared Correia: He’s going to keep to move on anyway. Yeah, he’s like a I had a couple eight balls but I still feel all right. I’m moving forward. And this song got, like, a great guitar intro and then they have this symbol crash that appears in the song.

Andreas Becker: Oh, yeah, we’re totally on the same level right now.

Jared Correia: So I would take that initial guitar riff, symbol crash, maybe the first few lines up until where he says, I feel alright tonight and the band kicks in. That would be my number four.

(00:30:00)

Steve Earle Hard-Core Troubadour.

Andreas Becker: I can’t wait to listen to it.

Jared Correia: I’m going to put all our songs together in a playlist so people can listen to them.

Andreas Becker: I like it.

Jared Correia: Go ahead. Your number three.

Andreas Becker: All right. I mean, this one’s going to be and we all get one that’s just kind of like of course he picked that. I mean Gimme Shelter. Gimme Shelter. Because I play a lot of rock band at one point. Rock band. Three. That was the opening song. It just has this nice — again, that’s kind of on the same level as Midnight Ride. Like different, but like kind of a soft opening and then they get going. You don’t have to hear any lyrics. Not that they wouldn’t be great, but I think that would be a clean intro. You kind of want to get people pumped up a little bit, but it’s not like there’s a major pump up either.

Jared Correia: And I think everybody would know that song, too. Even if they don’t know what the song is, they know —

Andreas Becker: Again, we’re in a royalty free perfect world. What’s your number three?

Jared Correia: My number three going with a very popular artist, but potentially an unknown song or deep track. Elton John song is called Funeral for a Friend/Love Lies bleeding.

Andreas Becker: I was thinking about some Elton John songs, actually.

Jared Correia: Elton John is, I feel like, good for this. So this is off, Goodbye Yellow Brick Road. The song is 11 minutes and 8 seconds long and if I wanted to be a real asshole, I could just play the whole song before the podcast started.

Andreas Becker: What if that was your outro? Eleven-minute outro.

Jared Correia: So this song, the first part is called Funeral for a Friend. It’s like this piano dirge. It’s got some guitars in it but then second part, Love Lies Bleeding is like a straight rock and roll song and right at the 4:52 mark, the two songs transition.

Andreas Becker: I love that you know that.

Jared Correia: The guitars kick in, then it goes quiet, then the piano solo comes up, then the cars and the piano come together. It’s like this crescendo. It’s amazing.

Andreas Becker: That sounds like a good one. I can’t wait to listen.

Jared Correia: Great song. If you have not listened to it. All right, number two. Number two for you.

Andreas Becker: I’m excited. Oh, God, it was so hard to sign between one, two and one.

Jared Correia: All right. Build the suspense. I like it.

Andreas Becker: Yeah. I think I’m going with Electric Relaxation by Tribe Called Quest. An instrumental, I don’t think we need to get because I love, you know, Ronnie Foster?

Jared Correia: Ronnie Foster? No, I don’t know.

Andreas Becker: Yeah, it’s a classic jazz kind of —

Jared Correia: I’m not a huge jazz guy. I have friends of mine who are really into jazz.

Andreas Becker: That’s why I was so into early 90s hip hop. There was so much sampling from my parents, listened to a lot of jazz, and this was one of my favorite songs growing up. And it’s just got a nice even keel to the build of the beat. And the drop is perfect and I’ve just thought about, like, “oh, welcome everyone” to whatever the title of my podcast is with Andreas Becker to that song. I need to work on it.

Jared Correia: That’s a good pick. I hope your number one is Hit ‘Em Up by 2Pac but we’ll get there.

Andreas Becker: Man. No, that’s my outro. All right.

Jared Correia: I see we’ve reached the wrap section of the podcast because I also have a rap song for my number two that is Damn It Feels Good to Be a Gangsta by Geto Boys.

Andreas Becker: Oh, that was a cold bucket. It’s a great pick. That’s a great —

Jared Correia: Same reason for your super chill laid back.

Andreas Becker: Now, I’m rethinking my Outro now that you brought Geto Boys into this, that’s a great pick. That’s the pick of the Rump Rose so far.

Jared Correia: Oh, good, good. All right. Yeah, we can pick a best pick after this. Maybe it’s that one. I don’t know but that was also an office space. Great movie. All right, now, big time number one.

Andreas Becker: I know. I said Electric Relaxation. I don’t know if I said it was my favorite but the foreside running back in the day, the instrumental again, but also, I kind of like the Can’t Keep Running Away. I wouldn’t do the instrumental, I’d keep it — Can’t Keep Running Away because it kind of speaks to me. If I did a podcast, I wanted to be about, like, okay, how do you find that area of legal that you would really want that speaks to you, that works for you. I’m getting too deep into it, but I also like the Stan Getz sample. I think you can’t go wrong with it.

Jared Correia: All right, so my number one is, like, I don’t know. It’s a really famous song, but I think it works for a podcast. So Buffalo Springfield. For what it’s worth. So here’s why I like it. The music in the song is pretty varied and interesting. Like, they got the hand claps, they got the bass line. They got that short guitar solo near the end. They got that pinging sound that sounds like dripping water. I love that.

(00:35:02)

Andreas Becker: Yeah, that’s a great song.

Jared Correia: And also, there’s something happening here. What it is ain’t exactly clear. Like, that defines this podcast pretty well. And then they also got relationships to hearing, so stop children. What’s that sound? Everybody, look what’s going down. I think that’s great for a podcast.

Andreas Becker: Yeah, that is very good.

Jared Correia: All right, we’ve moved into the Rump Roast stage of the Rump Roast. Your outro song. What is your podcast Outro song? No royalties needed?

Andreas Becker: So you had me thinking about how good my Mind’s Playing Tricks on Me would be as an outro, I was stuck with you know, Breakdown by Tom Petty. That could be an intro song too but that would be a great Outro. But I’m actually going to go with Take the Long Way home by Supertramp.

Jared Correia: Oh, shit. Wow. You gave us three really good ones there.

Andreas Becker: Oh, man. Do I go with Breakdown? Yeah, I’m going with Supertramp. I just think it’s a good — it makes sense as an outro.

Jared Correia: It makes a ton of sense. So would you have considered Minds Playing Tricks On Me? Because that’d be a really interesting.

Andreas Becker: I did. Just because that was I think you go through various stages in your adolescence where a certain song is your favorite song and I can remember certain times where that was the song.

Jared Correia: Oh, yeah, the song and the video was like a whole vibe back in the day. I’m throwing all three of those on the playlist.

Andreas Becker: Do it.

Jared Correia: So my Outro pretty cheesy. Like I had considered Closing Time by Semisonic, but then I was like, that’s like terrible. I can’t do that.

Andreas Becker: Throw it on the playlist.

Jared Correia: I’m going to put it on there anyway.

Andreas Becker: Throw it on the playlist.

Jared Correia: Because that was the song when I was in college, that was the song that they ended every day, it was like omnipresent. Semisonic not supersonic. That’s right. So I went with The End by the Beatles because it’s the end of the podcast and I just love the song. Like the intro is good, Ringo’s drum work is really good after that and then at the end they have the whole like and in the end love you make kind of thing. But there’s a part that starts at 53 seconds, which is like all the guitars, they bring in one guitar and another guitar and another guitar and another guitar, and they’re each playing different part and they held them all together. That’s just fucking thrashes. I love that and that is my Outro song. It’s just sublime.

Andreas Becker: That’s an excellent song and I’m so curious to know how much these would cost.

Jared Correia: We may be into the seven figures at this point. Rolling Stones, Beatles, Gregg Allman. We got them all and then we just threw some Tom Petty songs on there for the hell of it.

Andreas Becker: Just for the hell of it.

Jared Correia: This was a fun rump roast. Thank you.

Andreas Becker: That was pretty good.

Jared Correia: Let this be a lesson to others like you come at me with a good idea. I don’t have to harass you with trivia questions. We’ll do something like this. This is great. Andreas, thanks for coming on. You’re amazing as expected.

Andreas Becker: Thank you so much for having me. Let’s do this again.

Jared Correia: Yes, absolutely. Thank you, sir.

If you want to find out more about Andreas Becker and Lawyaw, visit lawyaw.com. That’s l-a-w-y-a-w.com. Lawyaw.com. Now, for those of you listening in Raisin City, California, I know you’re out there. Check out our latest Spotify playlist where I’ve collected all of mine and Andreas’s podcast music selections. That’s right. I went through all the effort to make a playlist of like 11 songs. Sadly, I’ve run out of time today to talk about Dick Cavet fucking perverse. This is Jared Correia reminding you not to eat random berries that you find in the woods, you dumb bastard.

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