In this episode:
- Law is intense, and you love your business. But are you trying to do everything?
- Trust the team you’ve hired. You can do too much, and you’re not that special.
- Make the best use of your time, don’t micromanage. It’s not sustainable and it’s not profitable.
- Learn about “calendar blocking,” building space for success. The habit you must learn.
Guest Corine Rogers, a Clio systems and efficiency master, has a vital message: You can’t do everything, and you aren’t that important. Help your law firm build business operations systems, then trust your team.
“Systems” are the repeatable ways you delegate tasks to others you trust. You selected your team, but do you let them do what you hired them to do? Do they believe that you believe in you? Get out of the way.
Start with the tasks that you simply don’t like. Baby steps. Don’t fall victim to drowning in the mundane and the things that aren’t the best use of your time.
You can’t create more hours in a day. So free yourself to do more of what you are best at and let others inside your business do the other tasks. In this important episode of The Un-Billable Hour, we hold up a mirror to help you see what you are doing to yourself if you can’t let your team shoulder some of the load. Plus, what doing your laundry can teach you about your business.
Special thanks to our
sponsors , , and .
Intro: Managing your law practice can be challenging. Marketing, time management, attracting clients and all the things besides the cases that you need to do that aren’t billable. Welcome to this edition of the Un-Billable Hour, the Law Practice Advisory Podcast. This is where you’ll get the information you need from expert guests and host Christopher Anderson here on Legal Talk Network.
Christopher T. Anderson: Welcome to the Un-Billable Hour, I am your host, Christopher Anderson and today’s episode is about production and it’s actually a little bit about you. It’s a little bit of the intersection, because what we’re talking about is where you intersect with the business and getting the work done. In short, I’m really excited today to be talking about systems. If you’ll recall, in the mean triangle of what it is that a law firm business must do, we’ve got to acquire new clients. We call that acquisition, right? Because without those, we don’t have much of a business. We’ve got to produce the results that we promise the clients, we call that production, and we have to achieve the business and professional results for the owner.
The owner is in the center of this triangle and that’s you driving it all, for better or worse to the ends of the business. And so, in today’s episode, we’re going to discuss how the systems in your business will keep you sane while running and growing the business. And to talk about that, my guest today is Corine Rogers. She is Problem Solver Extraordinaire at Streamlined.legal and that’s a business that helps small and midsize law firms create efficiency in their daily workflows and optimize their use of practice management software. And so, we’re going to call today’s episode of the Un-Billable Hour, you can’t do everything. And to talk about that, I’m pleased again to introduce my guest, Corine Rogers, Problem Solver Extraordinaire at Streamlined.legal.
Now, Corine is a marathon crusher. Oh, by the way, I don’t usually read our guests bios verbatim. I pack them up and change them and do stuff to them and make them worse, usually. But Corine’s was so cool, I just have to read it the way it was. So, here we go. Corine Rogers is a marathon crusher. Ironman finisher, cupcake demolisher. Corine is a lover of Clio, fanatic of systems and we’re supposed to ask her about the laundry system, so hopefully we’ll remember to do that. And efficiency beast with hefty experience in customer service and eight years in the legal industry, Corine flexes her skill set at Streamline.legal, supporting firms that want to commit to building sanity.
There are so many reasons I had to make sure that I was reading that verbatim, because I don’t think I would call any of my guests Corine, a cupcake demolisher or an efficiency beast. So, those are on you and welcome to the show.
Corine Rogers: Wow! Thanks for that great intro, I really do appreciate that and I’m excited to be here.
Christopher T. Anderson: It’s my pleasure. It’s a great intro. You wrote it, but mine are traditionally worse. So, I don’t have to apologize today for the terrible intro, because it was pretty good. So, let’s jump right in, because you’re all about systems. I mean, I’ll tell the audience just in all full disclosure, I’ve reached out to Corine and her team to help my teams with efficiency and with exploiting our case management software and other things to the fullest extent. So, she comes on in full disclosure as someone that I already know, like and trust in this field. So, I’m really excited to have her. But so, let’s jump in. I mean, the systems at the core of it. Corine systems are about an owner and/or their executive team figuring out a way, in a documented, repeated way to delegate stuff off of themselves. That systems sort of are unloading your brain onto paper so other people can do the stuff that you did. Do I have that about right?
Corine Rogers: That’s systems 101. I think you’ve nailed it.
Christopher T. Anderson: Okay, so the core of that is delegation. And one of the things that — in preparing for the show, you wanted to talk about was the shift of delegation away from the owner’s mantra, which I get stuck in myself sometimes, which is nobody else can do this.
Yeah, I’d like to delegate this stuff, but only I can do it. How do you see that shift happening for owners so that they can get out of that egocentric perspective? But I’ll tell you, I know I keep pretending like I’m asking a question. I keep talking, but I just want to blend my perspective to it, because I’m there all the time. I Know I can delegate this. I know I’m supposed to delegate this, but this is business critical. This is important. This is something that I can do better than anybody else. This is something that somebody else is going to screw up. If they do, it’s going to cost me even more time to fix it. So, now I’ve voiced all my little demons. Corine, what can you tell me and through me the audience, about what I just said.
Corine Rogers: I’m going to just give you some tough love. You’re not that special, and you’re not the only one that can do things. This is leading, this is leadership. So, if you continue to lead this way, you are showing by example, you don’t trust your team. Now, they’re not going to get it right. Right from the get go as you delegate things, you got to let them fail sometimes it’s okay, but you keep showing that you don’t trust your team to transfer the skill. Let them try and entrust that eventually this will be off your plate. The good news that this is an opportunity, right? You can show them, you can teach them, you can get feedback from them and train them how you really want to build a process for your firm to follow. Why wouldn’t you want to do that?
Christopher T. Anderson: Because you don’t trust them, right? And I’d say that only a little bit tongue in cheek, because that’s where we all come from, right? It’s like, “yeah, I trust them. They’re good. I hired them.” I made a choice to have these people on my team. But in my core, of course, do I believe they care as much that they will take as much caution and diligence as I would? And will they do it to the same standard that I would? Do I trust them to do that, I guess, is the question. And you said, I love the tough love, right? You’re not that special.
I grew up on — oh, gosh, what was his name on Saturday Night Live with the Affirmations. Like, you’re special, but I am special, right? I made this thing, and I’m speaking kind of a third party now because I’m voicing what all our listeners are saying, right? I am a little bit special. My team didn’t build this, I did. And so, how do I get out of the way?
Corine Rogers: I think some of your listeners are worried and agree with you. Yeah, but I do think there’s some other listeners out there let’s call it low hanging fruit that if you’re not ready to tackle on delegating all the things off the plate that you should, then start with the things that you really just don’t like and are easier for you to say “Okay, this I’ve got to shift and give to somebody else, it will be okay if it’s not as perfect as what I do, but it will at least no longer be just me trying to do everything.” Because if you continue to exist this way, you can’t scale. You can’t take on bigger and more exciting things that really do need just you or your brain power. I mean, you are falling victim to things that are not the highest best use of your time.
Christopher T. Anderson: There you go. I know that’s like, your mantra, right? That’s what we should as a business owner, should always be asking ourselves, is this the highest and best use of our time? I know we have so many other questions that we wanted to cover. I just want to stick here one more minute, because part of what you said about trusting your team and that strikes home because that’s sending a terrible message, right? Like I said, tongue in cheek saying I don’t. Because I do. I do trust them. I trust them a lot. I mean, I trust them with my future. It just occurred to me when you said that that maybe who I don’t trust is me, right? In my ability to you use words like transfer your knowledge, to do that. Will I remember every step? Will I remember everything I think about when I do this task? Will I remember to teach them the whole thing so I give them an opportunity to succeed? How do I get past that trust of my ability to actually turn it over?
Corine Rogers: You’ve got to take time to go ahead and at least try and start building the process. You have to go through the steps of feeling what it’s going to be like to shift something off your plate and hand it to someone else.
This is your freedom. Where are you going to keep coming up with more time in the day? There isn’t any more unless you free yourself up and you hand off something to someone so that you can be free.
Christopher T. Anderson: I think it’s really good point that I work with several law firms across the country and we deal with this question all the time and I’d love to hear you speak to it a little bit, which is you said “you can’t make more time in the day.” And that’s like something that happens with business owners, with law firm owners that I’ve noticed is that for a good chunk of time before they got serious about growing their business and about systematizing, and then for a little chunk of time afterwards, most problems could be solved by just “shoot all right, I’ll just work late tonight. I’ll get that done on the weekend.” Most problems could be solved in the early going by just expanding the amount of time that we’re willing to commit to the business, to be working in the business. So, nights and weekends become part of the job and before we know it, we’re trying to solve so many problems that becomes the norm.
Why do you think what happens? How do people end up working? Like, nobody goes into it going like, “yeah, I want to own a law firm so I can work nights and weekends, that’s what it’s all about.” But yet, that’s where a lot of folks end up. So, what happens there and how do we get past that?
Corine Rogers: It’s such a great question. Working on nights and weekends, how did we even get here? I talked to so many law firm owners who talk to me about trying to get it all done, and I ask them, “how much are you working?” They say, “well, I work full time.” And I say, “okay, well, could you define to me what full time is at your firm?” And the typical response is, “oh, you know, Monday through Friday, I get in around eight. I work until somewhere between four and six. I work with a lot of working parents. They say they have to go pick up the kids, relieve the nanny daycare,” things like that. But then a lot of them say “and then I get back on at night.” And I say, “when do you get back on at night?” And they say, “oh, like nine 10 o’clock and I’ll work a couple more hours and then if I don’t get it done, I might work at least one day on the weekend.”
And I pause usually and do the math. And then I ask them to do the math and I say, “okay, wait a minute, how many hours a week do you think you’re really in front of your computer thinking about cases, figuring out all the things added up and they’re coming up with 60, 80, 80 plus hours a week. This is one of the top reasons why many people left working in an office is because this was the environment that they didn’t want to duplicate in their own firms. And I say, “how did we get back here? Have we all been watching too many glamorous lawyers shows where everyone’s working in this beautiful, sexy law firm at night?” Well guess what? They never show the exhausted lawyer in the morning or the burned-out lawyer that never takes a break. It’s not sustainable folks.
And this is what I’m worried about. I’m worried about the burnout. And it’s not just likesome generalization that I’m making. I’m talking to these law firms. Every week I meet with at least five new law firms and I ask them about this burnout and I ask them, how do you feel right now? When is the last time you took a day off, a half day off? You had the whole weekend with your family and your partner and/or your spouse. What would that feel like? I will never be numb to their responses because it shocks me to my core when I see them roll their eyes. They take this deep sigh of like it’s this impossible feat to get those two days in a row off and take a break. And it scares me Chris, it does because I know that law is intense. I know that we’re trying to help people through their problems. I respect that, but I also respect that you’ve got to be building a system that lets you take a break. You’ve got to build in boundaries.
You’ve got to also take a look at what you are doing during all of this work time and figure out are you working efficiently? Are you just being interrupted a million times? What is preventing you from being able to get really good work done for you and for your team Monday through Friday, the hours of work in a day, let’s call it eight to six. But what’s really happening? Do you need more people? Do you have too much work to do? Are you drowning in things that again are not the best use of your time? Could things have waited? Are you buried by emergencies? What went off track? I think you’ve got to take a look at that and figure this out, because it’s not sustainable and it’s not acceptable.
Christopher T. Anderson: Yeah. And I think you’ve given our listeners actually the answers to a couple of those questions. The first one that we were talking about is you’re not that special. So, part of this is like you’re doing stuff at the night in the weekend that you probably could have delegated to someone else. But let’s also be honest, some of it we like to do, it’s just like almost procrastination. Like people will take on business owners, lawyers will take on some work they know they could delegate. But they like to do it and by the way, by doing that they can avoid that big, hairy, nasty frog that they’re trying very hard to not get done. We’re going to take a break and hear a word from our sponsors here. And then we’re going to come back and ask — I’m going to ask you, Corine to — because we teased it in your intro, the laundry system. So, I’m going to ask you about the laundry system and then we’re going to talk about fires, because that’s the bane, right? We get it all worked out. All right, I’m going to work that 50 hour at eight to six, you just said, but the fires that I need to put out, that we’re going to add that time on top. But first, a word from our sponsors.
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And we’re back on the Un-Billable Hour with Corine Rogers with Streamlined.legal. And we’ve been talking about delegation and working nights and weekends and I’m starting to feel a little sad. Sorry for myself, Corine, but so let’s get to some solutions here. The first one though, I wanted to talk to you about was because it intrigued me the laundry system in your intro, what’s that about? Why should we talk about that?
Corine Rogers: Okay. So, laundry is a problem facing many out there. I love doing laundry. Like the act of putting things in the washer, moving them to the dryer and taking them out even is something that I find cathartic. What I don’t find rewarding at all is putting the laundry away. And apparently other people have this problem, too. So, it was about two years ago that this problem was getting out of control. In my home, we’re talking too many laundry baskets with clean laundry, not being able to find things, having things being folded, never being put away, wrinkled clothes everywhere, never finding a sock that was matched. It was out of control. So, I really took a step back and I said, “what do really need this system to look like and what is the end result that I need?” The end result is I need to look somewhat presentable. I need clothes that are clean and I need to know where to find them. So, here’s my system. Number one, if you come in my house and you need a pair of socks, they’re all in a bin together and it is up to you if you’d like to match them up or you can grab two socks that no one will know, put them on your feet and no one will ever know that they are note matched.
So, all the socks are just in a bin in the laundry room. I’m done with matching them up and putting them in a drawer. I quit. My sister does the exact same thing, her kids do the exact same thing. We just don’t care. I have a laundry fairy. I put out on a Facebook mom group. I said to the moms — that these are groups that exist all over Facebook in every town in every part of the U.S.A. Okay. I put out there, “Hi, I have a housekeeper. I’m struggling actually with laundry. Is there anyone out there that will come to my house, fold a few loads of laundry and put them away for me each week?” Someone immediately responded. This person, without fail, comes to my house once a week and handles it. All I do is sort it out to be washed. She does all the rest and puts it away. I fired myself from even the thing that I like, doing the laundry. I quit, that’s it. Other things that I do, I work from home. When I work from home, I have gravitated towards wearing what I’ll call a 50% uniform. I tend to wear the same things everyday while I’m home. And so I did, I bought like four pairs of the same pants or similar shirts and it makes things so easy to get ready for my Zoom calls. So, if you ever do a Zoom call with me, you will see if you meet with me many times, you’ll probably notice that I wear like the same four tops. But who cares? I’m presentable. I’m not drowning in tons and tons of laundry and I know what goes with what and it’s easier to get ready in the morning.
And then finally, if you do have some wrinkles, nobody irons anymore. There’s wrinkle-release spray that exists on the market. You just go out there, you find it. Look for something called wrinkle-release or a product like it. You just spray, spray, spray and all the wrinkles go away. But no, I shall never stand at the ironing board ever again. Maybe a steamer, I do support the use of an excellent steamer. I definitely have one of those, but that’s it. That’s my laundry situation in the year of 2022. I don’t put it away.
Christopher T. Anderson: That is the most we’ve talked about laundry on the Un-Billable Hour, I think ever. But I love the metaphor because what we’re really talking about is one, the socks. I love the socks thing. I couldn’t do it. Got to be honest, got a mess with my socks, but I totally like the metaphor there, for I think, for a lot of firms. You know what, not all the stuff you’re spending a whole lot of time on, actually needs to be done. If you stop doing it, and this is something that Mike McAllister wrote about in Clockwork, you could actually just stop doing some stuff and the world won’t end and the business will be fine. There is some stuff that you could just not do, and by doing everything else in the business to a higher level of excellence, it’ll make that thing unnecessary. Right?
Then the delegation of course is the core, right? You created a system. You’ve got the laundry system as, “Hey, I’m fired.” And I think what’s really cool about that in two regards is one, you delegated. That’s nice, you talked about delegating in building systems. But a lot of people are okay with delegating the stuff they don’t like, but you admitted that there’s parts that you do like and you delegated it anyway. Not because we don’t like doing it, but because you realize it’s not the best use of your time, the highest and best use of your time. And then the spray to me represents just a more efficient process. You can spend 15 minutes at an ironing board, or probably 30 seconds with this wrinkle release stuff and getting it just good enough but saving an inordinate amount of time, so I love your laundry system. I think that’s fantastic. Let’s relate that back. So we’re talking about delegating and about finding the time. So when you’re designing your time and saying, I’m only going to work from 8:00 to 6:00, making some of these choices there has got to be a key to doing that? Is it?
Corine Rogers: I’m going to blow your mind. It turns out that you’re not the only person that questions and thinks about these things. Clio is a practice management software that allows law firms to track all kinds of data. It’s case management software for law firms. They put out a report every year, it’s called the Clio Trends Report, and of course, I can’t figure out which year it was that they put the data out. It’s within the last three or four years. They reported something crazy and I’m going to butcher this statistic. I wish I had it at my fingertips but I don’t. There’s some crazy statistic out there that says out of an eight-hour day, law firms are only able to bill something like less than three hours a day.
So that’s actual work that you feel was worthy of getting it done for the client and you expect there to be value to it and you expect to be paid for that work, right? So really, step back from that. An eight-hour day, only three hours with actual billable work. Doesn’t that sound broken to you? Doesn’t that feel like a broken system? What happened to the other five hours? No one’s leaving office after three or four or even five hours. So why are we tolerating all of this inefficiency? And if that efficiency is legitimate, well then there’s got to be even some small wins and some medium-sized wins that we could put into place with just some simple changes. There’s got to be. I can’t go on believing that three hours a day, in any line of business, in an eight-hour day is acceptable, or it can’t be business healthy. It’s not sustainable or scalable. There’s just no way. So to me, that’s a huge red flag.
What do we do to correct it? Start with something simple, like take a hard look at a calendar and start writing down in broad strokes, what are you doing hour by hour. Doesn’t have to be all little increments of time, but start using some kind of system where you’re putting down, okay what did I do for a couple hours this morning when I came in? How many times did I get interrupted? How many times did I start a project and get sidetracked into something else? And then what was the thing that kept me late at the office? What was the thing that got pushed to late night or even on the weekend? And take a look at that and start reprioritizing and figuring out what should I not have done, what are the bad habits that I’m guilty of, and then what are you willing to change.
Christopher T. Anderson: Yeah. I’m familiar with that clear report that you’re talking about and it is remarkable. And just to break it down a little bit farther, I was able to actually flip it up for here and I wrote a piece about this a little while ago. 31% of lawyers’ time in the office in small and medium-sized firms, 31% ever actually gets written down in any way whatsoever. Of that, only 84% of what gets written down, so a total of only 26% of their time actually makes it onto a bill. That’s where that roughly in a little bit more than two hours come from. And then of that, only 89% is collected, so only about 23% of their time spent at work is actually collected. So of an eight-hour day, is 1.8 hours is actually collected, and that is obscene. And if their families knew of the time they’re spending in the office more than 80% is not being collected, they would probably be pretty ticked off.
And you mentioned that calendar is a key part of that. So we’re going to hear from our sponsors here again. And then what I’d love to talk about to wrap up the show is how to actually approach your calendar. Like how do you put together a system, a calendaring system that has clear boundaries for you that communicate them to other people in your team to clients and to clarify your decisions to work late. But before we talk to you about that, we’ll hear a couple words from our sponsors.
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Christopher T. Anderson: In the Un-Billable Hour we’ve been talking with Corine Rogers about the choices and the decisions that we make to spend more time to not respect our boundaries, to do unnecessary things in the firm which keeps our focus away from the things that are truly important and what Corine has been calling the highest and best use of our time.
But so Corine, you mentioned that a solution to that is by, it would be like focusing on a calendar system that clarifies these choices and clarifies the decisions to make to work or to not. So can you talk us through? How do we get started? How can our calendar be our friend in being more productive and using our time to the highest advantage?
Corine Rogers: Okay. So a good calendar system has a beginning and an end. Like you start to create some kind of boundary. Just say to yourself, let’s start with Monday through Friday, 9:00 to 6:00, or 8:00 to 6:00 or basic simple Monday through Friday boundaries if that’s the way your firm works. Fair warning, this could get uncomfortable because we believe that a calendar system, a system of saying when you’re available when you’re not and what you’re going to do and when is it going to be over, it’s 60% psychological. 40% is creating the actual system of pressing buttons, deciding which calendar you’re going to use and how you’re actually going to track it all on a calendar. It’s also 100% holding yourself accountable and sticking to the system that you decide to build.
Back to the psychological piece. I am a prime example of not understanding how to use my calendar as a tool to keep myself above water. I was a person that used to tread water pack too much on my calendar. I didn’t understand something called calendar blocking. Calendar blocking is where every single time you need to get work done, you look forward and literally, if it’s on paper take a marker, take the pen. If it’s digital, go ahead and block on the calendar when you’re not available, estimate how much time you need to get the item drafted or what’s the time that you need to make to prepare for the call, what’s the time that you need to finish the motion or review work from somebody else.
Those times are now gone. You can’t also book a consult call. You can’t also be in court at that time. It’s a habit that you have to build to train yourself how much time are you really available to get things done. I can’t stress enough, it is uncomfortable. You may feel yourself pushing back. You may feel yourself and watching yourself try to double-book. Your team may try to double book. I’m guilty of asking my team to double-book themselves, and it’s okay if my team has told me, no I’m not available. Is this really an emergency for me 10 out of 10? It’s never been an emergency.
Christopher T. Anderson: That sounds good, but so the question then though, like okay, so I’ve got this giant pile of stuff, never-ending pile of stuff as business owner. And okay, so now, I’m going to block that all out on my calendar to get it done. Yay, now I’ve got it all blocked out of my calendar. But now, what about the people that need my time, that want to talk to me that I do need to be available for appointments and emergencies? How does that work against the blocking of the time for the project?
Corine Rogers: So do those things really need to get on your calendar? Do they need to bump other things forward? Is it just a case sometimes, as some things can wait? Rome wasn’t built in a day. There’s some truth in that. I just went to Rome. That place definitely was not built in a day, but it’s still standing, right? So, whatever they did to build it, it’s sustainable. If you keep refusing to map things out and stick to the plan, how are you ever going to make any progress? Here’s a simple thing. Okay, go ahead map out your week next week. Map out the things that you need to do that have to get done. Now, when something comes towards you and you’re looking and you feel that you need to bump something, push back. Give yourself permission to do that and see if you really can schedule something out. If you really can’t, then okay, take the thing that got bumped and also make sure that that item gets re-calendared. Don’t let things fall to the wayside.
I email people all the time that miss appointments with me and say, hey, you told me you were going to reschedule but you haven’t. When are you rescheduling? And if they don’t respond, then I know that it’s no longer important because what other conclusion could I draw?
Christopher T. Anderson: And I guess to that point you also should, if you’re bumping that task for instance, it’s okay to ask this task that’s getting bumped, do you really need to get done task? Or can I delegate you? Or if I’m willing to bump you, maybe you’re not that important.
Corine Rogers: I completely agree. Right. And maybe it’s an opportunity to do exactly what you said, delegate. What can you look at on your calendar and ask yourself, what is the highest best use of my time? Are you sitting in meetings that aren’t really for you to be at? Are you giving or sharing information with potential new clients that somebody trained could do? I would bet that there’s a whole lot of things that lawyers are doing that really don’t require a bar license. They don’t require a law degree. So start there, write it down on a sticky note and stick it next to your calendar. What on this calendar requires a bar license and say, no. Then maybe somebody else in the firm can do it. And then here’s a crazy thought, if it does require a bar license or a legal degree, are there any other attorneys in the firm that could do it? Let them do it. Free yourself. Find your freedom. Get your peace of mind. That’s what you deserve.
Christopher T. Anderson: I think that’s a great way to end it here. And what’s cool about what you’ve been talking about Corine, is that the theme that kind of underlies it all, from my perspective from listening to it, the theme that keeps jumping out at me is choice. We exist in the state of overwhelm for failure to make choices, and what you’re doing with this calendar system and the laundry system and other stuff that we talked about is like just looking at the pile of pile of pile of stuff and saying, what are you going — let’s acknowledge a truth. I don’t care if you want to work 18 hours a day, it’s still a finite number.
And so, your time is finite, whether it’s 8 hours a day, 10 hours a day, 18 hours a day, it’s finite. And so you still have to choose what you’re going to squeeze into that time and what’s not going to get done. And we face the pressures that we do because we fail to make those choices. So we just feel like it’s a never ending pile of emergencies. But with your calendar system, you have to proactively look at each thing. It kind of reminds me of Marie Kondo like is this going to stay or is this going to go. And that I think is a path to really getting a handle on what’s important. So, thank you for that.
Corine Rogers: My pleasure.
Christopher T. Anderson: Unfortunately, that also means we’re out of time. So that’s the end of this edition of the Un-Billable Hour. And so thank you all my listeners for listening. Our guest today has been Corine Rogers, problem solver extraordinary at Streamlined.legal. I have a few inquiry that we’ve created as many questions as answers here, and so people may want to reach back out to you and learn more or see if you can answer some more questions for them or whatever. If folks want to reach out to you, how should they do that?
Corine Rogers: People can email us at [email protected]. They can head to our website, which is also streamlined.legal and there’s a great contact form on there. And then of course, people can always phone at (630) 590-9505. And hey, if it’s not during the workday and you just really want to hang out with us or listen to us, find us on our podcast which is Your Law Firm is a Business. Find us on Spotify or iTunes.
Christopher T. Anderson: Alright. And this of course is still Christopher T. Anderson and I look forward to seeing you, our listeners next month with another great guest as we learn more about topics that help us build the law firm business that works for you. Remember, you can subscribe to all of the additions to this podcast at legaltalknetwork.com or on iTunes. Thanks for joining us. We will speak again soon.
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