After graduating from college in 1995, Keith began building wireless networks across the country for cellular voice and data...
Christopher T. Anderson has authored numerous articles and speaks on a wide range of topics, including law firm management,...
More clients for less ad spend seems like a distant ideal, but artificial intelligence (AI) may be the tool lawyers need to get their ads in front of the right people. In this episode of The Un-Billable Hour, host Christopher Anderson talks to Keith Dyer about how law firms can use AI to improve their marketing efforts. They discuss the three different types of AI (robotics, natural language processing, and machine learning), their capabilities, and how they could impact the future of legal marketing.
Keith Dyer started Market4Law to help law firms leverage digital technology and in particular artificial intelligence technology to grow their practices.
The Un-Billable Hour
Artificial Intelligence: Just Plain Smart Marketing
Intro: Managing your law practice can be challenging. Marketing, time management, attracting clients, and all the things besides the cases that you need to do that aren’t billable. Welcome to this edition of The Un-Billable Hour, the Law Practice Advisory Podcast. This is where you will get the information you need from expert guests and host Christopher Anderson, here on Legal Talk Network.
Christopher T. Anderson: Welcome to The Un-Billable Hour, the Law Practice Advisory Podcast helping attorneys achieve more success. We are glad you can listen today on the Legal Talk Network.
Today’s episode is about marketing system, sort of, it’s sort of one part marketing, one part physical plan, but way, way cooler, because today’s episode is also about Artificial Intelligence. The title of today’s show is Artificial Intelligence or Just Plain Smart Marketing and my guest is Keith Dyer. He is the President at Market4Law.
And I am your host Christopher Anderson, and I am an attorney with a singular passion for helping other lawyers achieve success with their law firm businesses, as they define it.
In the Un-Billable Hour each month we explore an area important to help you grow your revenues, get back more of your time and/or get more professional satisfaction from your business.
The Un-Billable Hour is dedicated to helping lawyers achieve freedom through their businesses and our guests help you learn more about how to make your law firm businesses work for you, instead of the other way around.
But before we get started, I do want to say a thank you to our sponsors; Answer1, Solo Practice University, Scorpion and LAWCLERK.
Answer1 is a leading virtual receptionist and answering services provider for lawyers. You can find out more by giving them a call at 800-Answer1, or online at www.answer1.com.
Solo Practice University is a great resource for solos, no matter how long you have been practicing. Make sure you check out solopracticeuniversity.com and learn how to run your practice better.
Scorpion crushes the standard for law firm online marketing with proven campaign strategies to get attorneys better cases from the Internet. Partner with Scorpion to get an award-winning website and ROI positive marketing programs today. Visit scorpionlegal.com/podcast.
LAWCLERK, where attorneys hire freelance lawyers. There are no sign up or monthly fees. Only pay the flat fee price you set. Increase your profits, not your overhead. Learn more at www.lawclerk.legal.
And again, today’s episode of The Un-Billable Hour is Artificial Intelligence or Just Plain Smart Marketing, and my guest today is Keith Dyer. Keith is the President of Market4Law and Necessary Marketing and is dedicated to being a marketing firm focused on business growth as a goal for clients as opposed to just advertising.
Since 2017 he has been incorporating Artificial Intelligence technology into his methodology for getting law firm results.
Keith, welcome to The Un-Billable Hour.
Keith Dyer: Thank you Chris. I appreciate you having me.
Christopher T. Anderson: Not at all. And first off, as is usual on The Un-Billable Hour, my introduction of you was ridiculously brief, but I do want to follow up on it and ask you a little bit just about your background that has enabled you to start incorporating Artificial Intelligence technology into law firm marketing.
Keith Dyer: Sure. Well, I will start off by saying I have been in marketing, I have run my marketing firm Necessary Marketing for 16 years and for many years we were basically a traditional advertising agency, but 10 years ago we began working in digital marketing, in particular social media, Google AdWords, all of the typical things that we know of today as they started 10 years or 8-10 years ago, we began implementing them into our company.
And then in the past couple of years I got very interested in AI as well as decided to niche my company into legal marketing; those things sort of happened at the same time, and so I created Market4Law, and in conjunction with that I began a business certificate to learn the implications of Artificial Intelligence with business and wrote my final project on implementing AI for legal marketing.
Christopher T. Anderson: Fantastic. All right. So with that background and having done that certificate what I would like to do is kind of start broad and then kind of zoom in, as you have, on using the technology for law firms. So like broadly first, what I would like to just — because AI, a lot of people think AI has to do with the little boy that was a robot, but turned into a little boy in the Steven Spielberg movie, other people I think have AI — in their sense they think AI, they think about Skynet and Terminator. There is a lot of myth around AI, a lot of misunderstanding around AI. From what you have learned, what is the current state of AI or Artificial Intelligence in business?
Keith Dyer: Well, you are beginning to see the increased use of AI in business, because the 10 solid years of Internet use we have had, the increased amount of data that we have been able to store. The technology behind data storage has gotten better; therefore, we have more data to sort through and that’s why you are beginning to see AI come in as the way to efficiently, for lack of a better word, sort through that data. Does that make sense?
Christopher T. Anderson: Sure. And also, I guess in a very real sense and what I think I hear you saying is that the amount of data that exists today also is an enabling technology for AI, like the fact that there is a lot of data to sort through helps AI come into being. Is that what you are saying?
Keith Dyer: I am saying that, because that’s really, in terms of legal, and we will get into this in a minute, that’s really the best use of Artificial Intelligence and all legal, not only marketing, but in general operations with law firms as well.
Christopher T. Anderson: Okay. So we are talking about like what is the state of AI and so it’s increasing based on the Internet usage and there is lots of data. Can you break AI down into two separate areas, like what are the kinds of AI or how are AI applied to business?
Keith Dyer: Well, there are three main fields of Artificial Intelligence. One is Robotics, which is repetitive tasks that can be borne by the robots as you described a few minutes ago. And so that’s not anything that’s really going to be affecting law firms anytime soon, at least we hope, because that would be kind of creepy, right? But anytime you see an assembly line or there is the manufacturing of a product and it’s a very repetitive task, oftentimes AI can be used as a robot to complete those tasks more efficiently and cheaper than using human labor.
The two other areas are Natural Language Processing which are Siri and Alexa and the different things you are seeing through Google and Apple that can recognize speech and utilize that into doing searches. So that’s also a form of the third type of AI, which is called Machine Learning, which is the type of technology most used by business, because that’s the technology that’s used to sort through massive amounts of data.
To recap, it’s three basic areas of technology; it’s Robotics, Natural Language Processing and Machine Learning.
Christopher T. Anderson: Okay. So yeah, so Robotics, repetitive tasks, Natural Language Processing, understanding speech and perhaps responding in it in order to conduct searches, and the Machine Learning, which is actually getting better and better at doing the searches or other tasks based on like learning, I guess, maybe based on feedback.
Keith Dyer: Right. So that’s a good thing. Basically AI is teaching computers to think for themselves. So you program a computer to think at certain places in its evaluation or think in terms of understanding what we are asking it to do instead of just programming the computer to do exactly what we want it to do.
Christopher T. Anderson: All right, so let me just see if I get it. I am a neophyte here in matters of AI. So Robotics, when I think robotics I am thinking assembly line; I think you said it too, like putting a car together, lots of robots and they are doing repetitive tasks, they might do them slightly differently if the car is out of line or whatever, but it’s a repetitive task thing.
Natural Language Processing you said is kind of like Siri or Alexa or that kind of thing.
And then Machine Learning, I am still — like can you give a regular industry example of where machine learning — where we might encounter machine learning today?
Keith Dyer: Yeah. So let me just, first of all, explain to you that Natural Language Processing while it is its own distinct technology is a form of machine learning too.
So let’s just boil this down to brass tacks and say Machine Learning is the ability to sort through massive amounts of data for searches, conclusions. It doesn’t take computers very long to do calculations through massive amounts of data, whereas it would take a computer two hours, it may take us three years. So that’s how it’s actually used. It’s basically datasets and teaching computers to search for pattern recognition.
Christopher T. Anderson: Got it. All right, so then I will tell you what we are going to do here Keith is we have just spent time talking with Keith Dyer about Artificial Intelligence and how it exists out in the business world, we are going to take a short break and when we come back I am going to ask Keith about how does this relate to law firms, what’s the best AI technology to be applied to law firms as soon as we come back after this word from our sponsors.
Advertiser: Is your firm experiencing missed calls, empty voicemail boxes and potential clients you will never hear from again, enter Answer 1, Virtual Receptionists. They are more than just an answering service. Answer 1 is available 24×7. They can even schedule appointments, respond to emails, integrate with Clio, and much more. Answer 1 helps make sure your clients have the experience they deserve. Give them a call at 1-800-answer1 or visit them at answer1.com/podcast for a special offer. That’s answer1.com/podcast.
Advertiser: Feel like your marketing efforts aren’t getting you the high value cases your firm deserves? For over 15 years Scorpion has helped thousands of law firms, just like yours, attract new cases and grow their practices. As a Google Premier Partner and winner of Google’s Platform Innovator Award, Scorpion has the right resources and technology to aggressively market your law firm and generate better cases from the Internet. For more information, visit scorpionlegal.com/podcast today.
Christopher T. Anderson: Welcome back to The Un-Billable Hour. I am talking with Keith Dyer, the President of Market4Law about Artificial Intelligence and we just were talking about the three kinds of artificial intelligence; which were Robotics, Natural Language Processing, and Machine Learning. And what I wanted to ask Keith now was, Keith, understanding those, what is the best AI technology now as applied to law firms?
Keith Dyer: Well, let’s first eliminate one and say that Robotics at this point in time is not really much that can be used in a law firm setting. That would leave Natural Language Processing and Machine Learning, and I will go ahead and eliminate Natural Language Processing for everything, but one use, which are chatbots, which you see so often now on — well, almost always on legal websites. So that lawyers and law firms are able to determine what someone might be searching for and the chatbots assist with that.
Keith Dyer: Oh wow. So you mean every time I get one of those chatbots, I am not actually talking to a real life human being?
Keith Dyer: That is correct. And it’s not always, it depends on the chatbots, right. So some chatbots would use AI, most of them do, where the first couple of questions that are asked are not necessarily pushed to a person. They can be used to filter sometimes what someone might be looking for.
Christopher T. Anderson: Oh, cool. So like when I am getting a chat, I don’t want to get stuck here, but like when it’s asking me the first couple of questions, it’s kind of like taking me through a voicemail tree, getting me to the right representative to then join the chat, but as far as I can tell, it’s sort of seamless.
Keith Dyer: Yeah, that’s exactly right.
Christopher T. Anderson: Cool. All right, so if we knock out Natural Language Processing except for that that leaves us with the meat and potatoes of AI for law firms, which would be Machine Learning. How do law firms use that?
Keith Dyer: Machine Learning can be used through various software providers to do things like document review and legal research or help perform due diligence and contract review and management, these are just a few things, but those are some of the non-marketing side.
I will get into the marketing because that’s more my thing. And again, if you look at those types of things that are needed, it’s basically searching through massive amounts of data in very fast time to come to some kind of conclusion or to find something that you are looking for to perhaps support your case, if you are an attorney.
Christopher T. Anderson: Sure. So like, for instance, I mean I go — one of the shows I go to on a regular basis is a show called — now it’s called Legalweek, it used to be called Legaltech New York, but that show has become to a huge extent about automated, they call it automated discovery, but machines doing discoveries. Is that an aspect of Machine Learning for law firms?
Keith Dyer: Absolutely, yes.
Christopher T. Anderson: Okay, and that’s because, again, discovery is about sorting through immense amounts of data and finding patterns, finding answers to questions or even sometimes suggesting questions.
Keith Dyer: That’s right. And so these softwares are taught what to look for and because they are so quick at going through it, it assists legal professional support staff and also the lawyers themselves in various tasks that have to do with data sorting.
Christopher T. Anderson: Cool. All right. Well, I think that brings us now into what you said was your focus, which is understandable. And I think not for nothing, I would like as we do this to touch on the current popular concerns around this, about AI technology and use for marketing.
And by the popular concerns I mean we are all aware that the biggest marketing engines on the planet today, Google and Facebook, use a lot of AI and know a lot about us and use it to help us be connected with the products and services we might want to use, but some of us are a little bit concerned with that.
But let’s just drop back for a second and say, you have talked about how law firms use Machine Learning in their business; they use it for discovery, they use it to sort through massive amounts of data, they use it for research as well. But coming around to marketing, how does this AI technology, how is it relevant for marketing from your perspective?
Keith Dyer: Well, I think to bottom line it, and I will get back to the bottom line for later on in our discussion, but you are able to create more relevant audiences using Artificial Intelligence and you are able to leverage, as you mentioned, the greatest AI users on the planet, Facebook and Google, you are able to leverage their abilities as well, because they are able to work with you in creating those relevant audiences. And I can explain that further, but does that start off — does that make sense to you? When I say relevant, meaning people that are searching for your services.
Christopher T. Anderson: Absolutely. That makes total sense to me, Keith. Like you said, Google and Facebook have these huge AI engines. They are probably the leading experts in using that technology. And so you are talking about leveraging that to find relevant audience, because if not for nothing, if, particularly with Google, I am paying per click and with Facebook I am sometimes paying per click, sometimes by impression, but the fewer people I can be in front of that are relevant to me rather than a whole mess of people that aren’t, the more efficient my marketing message is going to be and the more I can talk directly to the kind of person I want to be talking to as my prospect. Does that kind of summarize what you are talking about?
Christopher T. Anderson: That is exactly what I am talking about, yes. And there is also uses — so let’s separate this out for one second and say, there are different types of law firms, right. There are law firms that are looking for general consumers, and when I say that I mean personal injury law firms or family law firms. They are looking to get cases from the general public.
And then there are the business law firms that are catering their legal services to a certain segment of the market and there are Artificial Intelligence products and/or services that cover both of those fields. So they are different though, but they also — they do similar things.
For business to consumer, we have had, as I mentioned before, we have had 10 years of solid Internet use, so we are able to see the profiles of what people — the behavior people exhibit when they are going to select, let’s say for instance in this case, a personal injury attorney.
They have gone to certain types of websites. They have put in certain keywords. And so AI allows you to identify when someone is exhibiting that behavior and you are able to present your ads to them specifically. It’s not 100% that they are looking for a personal injury attorney, but it’s much better than spraying your ads all over the place.
Christopher T. Anderson: Yeah, that makes total sense Keith. And kind of as you are saying it, I am even thinking about like it could — as this stuff gets better, it may be able to predict like hey, you know what, this person doesn’t need a PI lawyer now, but these behaviors are the kinds of behaviors of somebody who is going to need one pretty soon.
Keith Dyer: Well, do you remember the movie ‘Minority Report’ with Tom Cruise?
Christopher T. Anderson: Very much so, I do.
Keith Dyer: Yeah. And when he is walking through the areas of town and these holograms are popping up with ads that are specific to him.
Christopher T. Anderson: Yeah, yeah.
Keith Dyer: I mean, within our lifetime we will have that. I mean, I don’t know about the holograms, but we are going to have the technology to show you ads. I mean, it’s already there for the most part, as you said a second ago, it’s going to just get more refined and better.
Christopher T. Anderson: Yeah. And then the aspect of pre-crime also, like hey, you don’t need a criminal lawyer today, but we believe you are going to need one tomorrow.
Keith Dyer: Yeah, that’s funny.
Christopher T. Anderson: Okay, so leveraging the relevance engines of Google and Facebook, that makes total sense, that you are getting your message focused and drilled down to, as you said, your more relevant audience. Can we just like get practical and talk about how would we use that particularly in managing and pushing forward our Google AdWords campaigns?
Keith Dyer: So yes, and this is going to get into specifically what my company does, so I will kind of explain it that way. That is, we are partnered with data companies that provide us with the data of who we think are a market for an attorney. And so I am able to take that list, which I get every week and I am able to — it’s basically just what they call a SHA-256 or an email address, and I am able to take that and I am able to upload it into Facebook and/or Google.
And Facebook and Google are so smart, they will take your lists and you can do this with other types of lists, it doesn’t have to be an AI generated list, but they will take your list and they will start to look for what patterns, why you have put that list in there and they will start to try to match it with their own lists of the same behavior. So then you are able to grow your relevant network by that.
And what’s great about this as well is that Facebook and Google’s algorithms over time get better and better, so your results tend to get better and better.
Christopher T. Anderson: Okay. And so you are basically saying I have got this list of people who in my experience I already know them, are the type of people or have the type of behavior that will want to buy my services, go find me more of them?
Keith Dyer: Except that we know that they are exhibiting the behavior because we are also seeing their behavior. So yes, you are right.
Christopher T. Anderson: Fantastic. And so is there a difference, like how to do that with Google and how to do that with Facebook or is it more or less the same mechanism?
Keith Dyer: One is called — on Facebook it’s called the Lookalike list and on Google it’s called Relevant Audience.
Christopher T. Anderson: All right. Well, that’s fascinating, like how we can really begin to use AI in marketing to drill down and find more relevant audiences.
We are going to take another break here. When we come back Keith, I would like to talk to you about — like take ourselves out of digital marketing, particularly of the Google and Facebook world and talk about how we could possibly use this type of technology for TV, for digital, or satellite radio and other subscriber services when we come back from hearing a word from our sponsors.
Advertiser: Ready to create and build your own solo or small firm practice, need a nuts and bolts education on the 360-degree experience of starting a business, there is only one online destination dedicated to helping you achieve your goals, Solo Practice University, the only online educational and professional networking community dedicated to lawyers and law students who want to go into practice for themselves, more than 1,000 classes, 58 faculty and mentors. What are you waiting for? Check out solopracticeuniversity.com today.
LAWCLERK is where attorneys go to hire freelance lawyers. Whether you need a first year to perform legal research or a seasoned attorney to assist with a complicated appellate brief, LAWCLERK has hundreds of freelance lawyers with every level of experience and expertise. There are no sign up or monthly fees, only pay the flat fee price you set. Increase your profits, not your overhead. Learn more at www.lawclerk.legal.
Christopher T. Anderson: And we are back with The Un-Billable Hour. We are having a fascinating discussion with Keith Dyer, the President of Market4Law about Artificial Intelligence and how it is applied in law firm business and specifically in law firm marketing.
In the last segments we have talked about AI in business, how it applies to law firms, and more specifically how it’s used, how we can leverage the fantastic Artificial Intelligence engines of Google and Facebook to make our digital marketing work better, work smarter, work more efficiently.
And what I would like to talk with Keith about now is, is it possible to take these same techniques and take it out of that digital marketing world for something let’s say like television or billboards or satellite radio, can you talk to that a little bit?
Keith Dyer: I can and I will explain this. So billboards, no; television, from a local television station, no, you cannot use it at this time. It’s more based on subscriber-based technologies or mediums like cable television or Sirius XM Radio. This is going to be a very simplistic answer, but it makes sense.
If I am able to identify the identities of people that are searching for an attorney and I am able to cross-reference that into the subscriber base of a cable company or into XM Sirius, then you are able to find those folks and then the technology will be here within the next couple of months that you are able to serve them ads specifically on those mediums as well.
Christopher T. Anderson: Okay, yeah, so people who look for this type of law tend to be listening to Channel 859 on Sirius XM or at least are subscribers to Sirius XM or like to go to this cable television channel, is that kind of thing what you are talking about?
Keith Dyer: Yes sir, yeah.
Christopher T. Anderson: Cool. And then you said billboards, no, but that’s right now because we can’t do anything to identify who is walking past a billboard.
Keith Dyer: That’s right.
Christopher T. Anderson: But as, I think if anybody is reading the news, they know that like Facebook right now is like hugely investing in facial recognition and I imagine countries like China are hugely investing. I mean the technology to make billboards relevant too is pretty fast upon us.
Keith Dyer: That’s true, and that will be really interesting to see how that plays out. That’s a much more ‘Minority Report’ like application, so yes. I think it’s not too far away.
Christopher T. Anderson: Yeah. And it’s an interesting conundrum, right, because it’s — the one initial reaction is, that’s starting to feel like an invasion of privacy, but on the flip side it’s like wow, I don’t have to — when I am listening to — here’s an example, I mean I think that probably fits into yours, when I am listening to Pandora and I have the one with the ad service, the ads right now are — they are for my location, like they are smart enough to know where I am listening and so they give me local ads, even though it’s an international service. But it will be better I think with the way you are saying is sooner or later they will be able to be targeting it to me.
Keith Dyer: That’s right, yeah.
Christopher T. Anderson: And I probably won’t be hearing the Tide commercial anymore, but I might be hearing the commercial about better oil for an airplane or better ski holiday places, because they for some reason will know that’s what I like to think about.
Keith Dyer: Right. Or if you like fishing, you will get ads about boats.
Christopher T. Anderson: Yeah, exactly. That’s really, really fascinating. So that’s I think what you are kind of forecasting a little bit, but this will become more — this using the Artificial Intelligence to enhance marketing is going to spread out in where it can be applied.
Keith Dyer: That is correct. It’s going to be mind-boggling. I think that people should not be afraid of it, but they should hold on, because it’s going to be really interesting.
Christopher T. Anderson: And let’s talk about the benefits to law firms. So I mean obviously getting to your audience instead of a crapshoot is better, but how does this affect the cost of marketing, the overall spend in marketing?
Keith Dyer: Well, it drives down the cost per client acquisition, because we get better click-through rates, with more relevant audiences. So we have a less wasted ad spend and firms utilizing this method can drive down costs and gather new clients for less money.
Christopher T. Anderson: Yeah, that can be really huge to law firms’ bottom line. And then sort of a hidden benefit, I think — well, two hidden benefits that could result. One is that, not only are you using less spend to reach more of your targeted people, but this is also saving your law firm time, because as everybody listening to this knows, when you are not focused with your marketing, no matter what you say, you can say, I am a family law firm. We serve people who are looking for divorce. If you are hitting a big broad audience, you are going to get phone calls for criminal law. You are going to get phone calls for PI. You are going to get phone calls for my neighbor keeps parking on my yard. And if we can focus the audience down, we will probably reduce that load on the law firm of having to talk to people that they shouldn’t be helping.
Keith Dyer: Absolutely. And the chatbots help with that as well.
Christopher T. Anderson: Yeah, there is another AI technology that can help reduce that noise also.
And then the second one is of course, like you just said, again, difficult to measure, but the fewer people exposed to your message that you shouldn’t be helping, that you can’t help, the fewer people are going to get frustrated that they called your law firm for something you don’t do, and so you are going to be reducing that negative feedback that you will be getting from people being — feeling like they were misled into calling you. So I think that’s good, good and good.
Keith Dyer: Well, think about this, can you remember an ad that you have heard in the past 24 hours?
Christopher T. Anderson: Yes.
Keith Dyer: Okay, what one was it?
Christopher T. Anderson: Pants, pants, pants, pants, pants, it’s a Tide commercial that just repeats on Pandora. So I unfortunately —
Keith Dyer: Can you remember another one, because you just kind of killed my argument here?
Christopher T. Anderson: But no, I think I — in a sense I have made it too, because I don’t buy laundry detergent.
Keith Dyer: Well, yeah, so you have made it in a way, because Tide just spent that money on you because they are paying for it, right, and you are not going to buy anything from them right now?
Christopher T. Anderson: Never, ever, ever, but other than that, no, I can’t name a single ad I have heard, and I know I have heard a bunch, but I have no idea.
Keith Dyer: That’s because they weren’t relative to you. I am sorry, weren’t relevant to you. They weren’t anything that you are currently probably looking for. But if you were searching for a boat and there was an ad that came up and said this type of boat, and it happened to be one that you liked, so it’s going to get that specific, if it happened to be one you liked, you remember it, because you probably would be clicking through it or doing some action to find out more about it.
Christopher T. Anderson: Yeah. And I think the overall — I mean the natural consequence here is that the overall load, if you will, of messaging to me will probably go down and the stuff that remains will probably be — because the people that are not relevant to me will stop spending money trying to get my ears or get my eyeballs, and meanwhile — so I will be hearing and seeing less and what I do hear and see will be more relevant. That to me is an exciting feature.
Keith Dyer: I agree with you. So we don’t have to — you think about how many messages — you think about the overload that people in general, the average consumer has sitting at your computer everyday at work or at home at night watching television, your phone is binging, your email, the ads that are coming across, the less we can have that ad coming at us and more relevant messages, so I think you are right, we will live in a better world.
Christopher T. Anderson: Yeah. Less crowded anyway, which since we are talking about the future, that brings me to my wrap up question with you, which is what is the future of AI in legal, like where do we go from here? We have seen how it’s already impacting our ability to leverage relevance engines and we have talked about how that will sort of spread out into a few other marketing venues. What else do you see for the future of Artificial Intelligence in the legal industry?
Keith Dyer: Well, I think the key is that, one, make sure that you are not scared of AI. I think one thing I learned from my studies was that humans and machines are very good at different things and actually their skills complement each other. Does that make sense?
Christopher T. Anderson: I think it can, yeah.
Keith Dyer: Yeah. So what I mean by that is that, I mentioned this earlier, it’s really easy for a machine to sort through data and to make conclusions based upon things we have taught it, but it’s very difficult for a machine to have human intuitions; as a matter of fact, it’s impossible at this point.
So the amount of jobs in legal that would be taken by AI in the immediate future, meaning within the next 10 years, is going to be very minimal. So don’t worry about that or be scared of that, because I don’t think that’s anywhere in our horizon. There would have to be a lot of major technological advancements for something like that to happen.
But what we are really finding is that humans and machines are really great at working together because they don’t do the same things well. So I think that’s — the one thing I would take away from a general standpoint on AI, and I would also think — I think we need to address the scare — I think the scared nature of people about being — about invading your privacy, and so we can talk about that for just a second if you would like.
Christopher T. Anderson: Yeah. No, I think that’s really important to think about.
Keith Dyer: I wanted to come back to it because you mentioned it in the very beginning of the show.
Christopher T. Anderson: Yeah, indeed.
Keith Dyer: I think it’s going to be up to all of us to really understand and create the rules of how this works, because people tracking behavior is great if you are doing it for marketing, but for other purposes it’s kind of creepy, right?
Christopher T. Anderson: It could be very creepy, yeah.
Keith Dyer: I think the thing to understand right now in terms of the way this technology works, it’s not that there is somebody watching every move someone is making, but if they exhibited a certain behavior, then that’s going to trigger an understanding of what they might be doing and then serving an ad to them.
So it’s not somebody sitting and watching every move that I make on the computer or you make on the computer, it’s more of a, oh, she has or he has exhibited behavior number 247 that’s consistent with what someone might be looking for a personal injury attorney, so let’s serve her ads, that’s where it sits right now.
Christopher T. Anderson: Yeah, that makes sense. And I think of course, these are aspects and technological differentiations of age-old issues.
Keith Dyer: Correct.
Christopher T. Anderson: And to some extent I think what people are looking for is to get some measure — I mean I think, like we have explained, like the conveniences and the benefits are huge, and I think what people want is an ability to have some measure of control over how their information is used. And I think if we all work together to make sure that that’s respected, while still enabling the technologies, I think we get the best of both worlds.
Keith Dyer: Yeah. So I will tell you this last piece here too in terms of the privacy issue and that’s that the data that we collect is collected in through cookies and through hash technology, so that we understand — we are getting approval ahead of time before we are actually resolving any one’s identity. So that’s also another important feature for people to realize, you are granting us access to do that, as well as when you use Facebook and Google.
Christopher T. Anderson: Yeah, and agreeing to their terms.
Well Keith, this has been absolutely fascinating, bringing Artificial Intelligence into the area of the law, but unfortunately, it also is out of time. And this wraps up this edition of The Un-Billable Hour, the Law Business Advisory Podcast.
Our guest today has been Keith Dyer, the President of Market4Law. And he has been talking to us about Artificial Intelligence and the application to law firms. If you are interested in this, you want to learn more about him or his business, you can find out about his business at www.market4law.com or you can email him at [email protected].
Keith, thank you so much for being on the show.
Keith Dyer: I appreciate you having me. Thank you so much.
Christopher T. Anderson: My pleasure. And of course, this is Christopher Anderson and I look forward to seeing you next month with another great guest as we learn more about topics that help us build the law firm business that works for you.
Remember, you can subscribe to all the editions of this podcast at legaltalknetwork.com or on iTunes. Thanks for joining us. We will see you again soon.
Outro: The views expressed by the participants of this program are their own and do not represent the views of, nor are they endorsed by Legal Talk Network, its officers, directors, employees, agents, representatives, shareholders and subsidiaries. None of the content should be considered legal advice. As always, consult a lawyer.
Thanks for listening to The Un-Billable Hour, the Law Practice Advisory Podcast. Join us again for the next edition, right here with Legal Talk Network.
Best practices regarding your marketing, time management, and all the things outside of your client responsibilities.
Legal AI entrepreneur Tom Martin shares how automation adoption by lawyers is accelerating out of necessity and because their clients demand it.
While the pandemic paralyzed many leaders, Michael Mogill offers tips for adopting a growth mindset that will lead you on a path to success....
Eric Farber offers strategies for developing a healthy culture in your law firm.
Tom Lambotte discusses the key tenets of his Optimize Method framework for lawyers.
David Neagle shares tips for developing a mindset that can help bring businesses through difficult economic circumstances.
Kimball Parker discusses solutions to common problems faced by law firms struggling to adjust to remote work.