Addressing Access to Justice with Blockchain

Episode Notes

Transcript

The Un-Billable Hour

Addressing Access to Justice with Blockchain

04/30/2018

Christopher Anderson: Welcome Un-Billable Hour listeners. Before we get started with the show, I did want to say a thank you to our sponsors Answer1, Solo Practice University, Scorpion and Lawclerk.

Answer1 is a leading virtual receptionist and answering services provider for lawyers. You can find out more by giving them a call at 800-answer1, or online at  HYPERLINK “http://www.answer1.com” www.answer1.com. That’s  HYPERLINK “http://www.answer1.com” www.answer1.com.

Solo Practice University is a great resource for solos, no matter how long you have been practicing. Make sure you check out  HYPERLINK “http://www.solopracticeuniversity.com” solopracticeuniversity.com and learn how to run your practice better.

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Intro: Managing your law practice can be challenging. Marketing, time management, attracting clients, and all the things besides the cases that you need to do that aren’t billable. Welcome to this edition of The Un-Billable Hour, the Law Practice Advisory Podcast. This is where you will get the information you need from expert guests and host Christopher Anderson, here on Legal Talk Network.

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Christopher Anderson: Welcome to The Un-Billable Hour, the Law Practice Advisory Podcast helping attorneys achieve more success. We are glad you can listen today on the Legal Talk Network.

Today’s episode is about – well it’s a little bit about money and metrics, a little bit about marketing, but what it’s really about is access and our title today is Blockchain Cryptocurrency and Access. And my guest is Todd Tyler.

Todd is the COO at 1LAW and of course, I am your host Christopher Anderson. I’m an attorney with a singular passion for helping other lawyers be more successful with their law firm businesses. I am dedicated to helping lawyers across the country to achieve success as they define it.

In the Un-Billable Hour each month, we explore an area important to growing revenues, giving you back more of your time and/or improving your professional satisfaction, in one of the key areas of your business. I start with a fundamental premise that a law firm business exists primarily to provide for the financial, personal and professional needs of you, its owner.

In this program, I have a chance to speak to you as I do in presentations across the country about what it takes to build and operate your law firm like the business that it is. I have a chance to introduce you to a new guest each month to talk about how to make that business work for you, instead of the other way around.

And again, today’s episode of the Un-Billable Hour is Blockchain Cryptocurrency and Access. And my guest is Todd Tyler and Todd is the COO of 1LAW. Welcome to the Un-Billable Hour, Todd.

Tyler Todd: Hey, thank you for having me.

Christopher Anderson: You’re welcome. So first of all my introduction of you was ridiculously brief. So if you don’t mind just telling the listeners what is 1LAW and what’s your role there?

Tyler Todd: Thank you for having me on the show, glad to be a part of it. I have to correct you my name is Tyler Todd.

Christopher Anderson: Tyler Todd, I’m so sorry, I got it backwards.

Tyler Todd: But you know what, that’s been happening my entire life, so don’t feel bad. My middle name is Thomas and so I’ve gotten Thomas Todd, Todd Tyler, all of it. Anyways, again, thanks for having me.

I am the COO and managing partner of 1LAW. We started 1LAW back in 2010 as an alternative to the traditional legal practice. We had a law firm with a number of partners and we wanted to be unique and different in an effort to market ourselves differently from pretty much every other law firm out there.

Christopher Anderson: Yeah.

Tyler Todd: Most law firms traditionally are their last names and associates or the Law Offices of and we created the name 1LAW to be that, to be different, and to brand differently.

Christopher Anderson: And just to be clear it’s 1LAW.

Tyler Todd: The 1LAW.

Christopher Anderson: Yeah.

Tyler Todd: Correct.

Christopher Anderson: And then, we wanted to then have a widget, we always wanted to have something tangible and so from there, we developed a mobile app and as lawyers, we wanted to be more effective in what we were providing to our clients. We wanted to have greater accessibility to our clients.

We wanted them to have better accessibility to us and so we developed the mobile app and from there, we developed on-demand video and SMS text.

Christopher Anderson: Okay.

Tyler Todd: And it enabled again for consumers or otherwise potential leads to find us and to connect individuals with lawyers. We are at the time thinking it would be us.

Christopher Anderson: Right, right.

Tyler Todd: And then from the mobile app, the video and the on-demand SMS text, we went to chatbot and we created a Chatbot Builder.

(00:05:02)

Christopher Anderson: Right.

Tyler Todd: And then we created Docubot, which is form automation.

Christopher Anderson: Right.

Tyler Todd: And now our network, our technology has been evolving and growing and we’re morphing into a tech company, and now 1LAW is more, it’s a tech company and we still practice law and we have lawyers that still practice law for that particular side of it, but we’re a tech company.

Christopher Anderson: And so it’s taking you in a direction you weren’t initially expecting to go at all?

Tyler Todd: Correct.

Christopher Anderson: And, now you actually been talking about like some of the NASCENT Technology, that might be taking you in another direction yet again, but let’s begin with framing the problem, because I headed up the show saying it’s really all about access, and this is something that I’m actually passionate about as well.

My listeners know that access to justice is to me an underlying premise of civilization, not just democracy, but civilization like if people don’t have a way that they feel they can have their disputes adjudicated in a fair way then they take matters into their own hands and civilization starts to break down.

So the problem we’re talking about is justice and you laid out when we were talking some really interesting stats about how the legal system is failing. So I don’t know if you could just talk to our listeners a little bit about how we can see that the access to justice is really a problem in the United States and probably other places in the world as well.

Tyler Todd: Well and that’s a great point. Thank you for bringing that up. We hear access to justice on a regular basis.

Christopher Anderson: Yeah.

Tyler Todd: And we continually hear it because the problem unfortunately is, is not being resolved. There’s a lot of great companies, tech companies, efforts by the ABA and other obviously great entities around the country and around the world that are trying to solve the problem and we are making strides and I think there’s a lot of great people that are in that vein and that are doing that.

But one interesting stat that we thought was phenomenal, one side in almost 80% of the 100 million non-criminal cases filed annually in the United States, one side of that party is unrepresented.

Christopher Anderson: Right, at least one, right, sometimes both, yeah.

Tyler Todd: At least, and sometimes both, and that’s staggering.

Christopher Anderson: 80%?

Tyler Todd: 80%.

Christopher Anderson: Yeah, so I mean how can people feel like they have access to justice when they’re entering a system that is not meant to be — let’s say, self-explanatory or simple, and it’s designed around people, professionals knowing what they’re doing in that environment.

Tyler Todd: Absolutely.

Christopher Anderson: And so 80% aren’t having that and so how are they coming out of that, feeling fair, like fairly treated I doubt it, right?

Tyler Todd: I don’t think so. And obviously the courts and the State Bars are trying to make efforts to make that process easier and help pro se litigants navigate those waters a little easier, but it’s a complicated process.

As a lawyer, I can explain to someone this is how you file an answer and to a lawyer, an answer might be one of the easiest things we do, but it’s a different language.

Christopher Anderson: Right, and how do you explain like, sometimes you need to use an affirmative defense and sometimes you don’t, and if you admit this in your answer then it’s going to be dispositive doubt, I mean it’s so much so we can make it easier but we can’t make it fair under the law.

If a law has been developed over all these years to try to keep equalizing things and then you throw these people into it, and then it shows up not just in court though, right. I mean lack of access to the law or access to justice shows up in other ways.

Tyler Todd: Absolutely, legal fees for one.

Christopher Anderson: Right.

Tyler Todd: Right. If one party has the financial resources to hire a lawyer and the other party doesn’t, then it shows up maybe outside of court in regards to settlement discussions and negotiations and millions and millions of dollars is either lost or won as a result of not having a lawyer on your side.

Christopher Anderson: And then yeah, and so and that’s again in litigation and in court and whatever, then I’m always, I’m hearing about people watching people walk around, people who have passed away or whose two people passed, where their kids are going into state custody and all for lack of having just some basic primary documents that they should have around.

Tyler Todd: I was just having a discussion with a lawyer just a few minutes ago about a case that she’s working on where little three-year-old boy lost and this is something we’ve all heard, but lost both parents and now aunts and uncles are fighting and now, we’re in probate litigation and how do we solve some of those issues, how do we alleviate the ever-increasing costs of litigation, and I think there’s a way of doing that.

Christopher Anderson: Yeah.

Tyler Todd: And there has to be a way of doing that.

Christopher Anderson: So you’ve identified what for me is like this obvious pain out there, people who feel they get into trouble with the law, feel they can’t afford representation, have a conflict feel they can’t afford representation, don’t even protect themselves with the basics of a will, and just saying this is what I want to have happen to my kids and if we’re both involved in it actually like, this is who should watch them.

So the state doesn’t have to get involved and so that the kid doesn’t have to be three, four or five years old without real clarity as to who is going to be raising him or her.

All of that’s going on and meanwhile on the other side, you have lawyers walk around say there’s not enough business and we can’t get clients, and nobody will hire us. What’s going on with that?

(00:10:01)

Tyler Todd: You just almost identified the justice gap, right, the financial restrictions of individuals to hire lawyers and then all these great lawyers across the country that are really great at what they do and they just can’t connect with the consumer.

And if the consumer knew what that lawyer was capable of then we could connect those two and hopefully that gap is being bridged.

Christopher Anderson: And we’re talking about, I mean, like there’s I think the latest from the ABA was that there’s 1.4, 1.5 million lawyers in the United States, right, but we’re talking about a lot of them.

Tyler Todd: A lot of lawyers.

Christopher Anderson: We are not talking about the lawyers in the big law firms that are helping the giant corporations, but what segment of all the lawyers are in this small law firm environment looking for clients that they think are lacking.

Tyler Todd: Well an interesting stat, 90%, 90% of those 1.4 approximately million lawyers are either solos or one the four-man lawyer shops.

Christopher Anderson: 90%. And they’re the ones struggling, meanwhile we’ve got — we have clients who are people just not really getting access to justice.

All right, we’re going to come back. I’m speaking with Tyler Todd, the COO of 1LAW. We’re talking about how the access to justice gap is affecting not just the people but the lawyers on both sides, and people are walking around, thinking there’s not enough for access to justice; lawyers are walking around thinking there’s not enough clients.

There’s got to be a solution. We are going to be coming back with Tyler and talking about how technology and how what some of the things that 1LAW is doing can really help to bridge that gap.

But first we are going to hear from our sponsors.

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Christopher Anderson: Welcome back to The Un-Billable Hour. We are talking with Tyler Todd, the COO of 1LAW and we’ve been talking about the access to justice gap.

We explored where people, perspective, people who need to access justice because they’ve gotten in trouble, they need legal documents done and their perception of the lack of access to lawyers, lack of access to the courts and then we were talking about lawyers on the other hand, 90% according to Tyler of the legal business in the United States are these solo and small law firms and they’re struggling to make their services known to the people that are out there looking thinking they can’t have access to the services.

What’s the barrier? What’s keeping these lawyers from getting their services known to the people?

Tyler Todd: Well, unfortunately a lot of it is financial resource. It is expensive in today’s market to advertise. 80% of the marketing dollars across most platforms is legal marketing. So picture that.

Christopher Anderson: Really?

Tyler Todd: If you are a solo law firm or a two, three lawyer law firm, it’s very expensive to market and to advertise your services. I’ve heard numbers of 250,000 a month, for bigger firms.

Christopher Anderson: For bigger firms, yeah.

Tyler Todd: Even millions of dollars a month and if you are a solo law firm even thinking to maybe a few thousand dollars a month is sometimes hard to swallow.

Christopher Anderson: Sure.

Tyler Todd: So I think that is a big part of it and quite frankly unfortunately there’s a major confidence issue in the legal industry. I think a lot of consumers just don’t have the confidence in lawyers.

Christopher Anderson: Right.

Tyler Todd: If they actually pay for legal services they are going to get what they are paying for.

Christopher Anderson: Right. And I think there’s a big gap there. So the law firms are facing these daunting numbers in trying to advertise, trying to be heard above the noise. I think you have mentioned this, the total legal marketing spend of about $8 billion, how to make your drop in that ocean seem to matter and then what you just mentioned was this lack of faith, lack of belief in it.

And I think that goes again to the whole structure of things, because lawyers are out there using the billable hour, lawyers are out there selling their time instead of solutions, and so when people get some time without a complete solution they feel like they haven’t gotten value and they are right, and that’s where this lack of faith is coming from. I think you gave a good example of how people will spend until they run out of money but the solution might not be complete.

Christopher Anderson: How people will spend until they run out of money but the solution might not be complete.

(00:15:01)

Tyler Todd: Right.

Christopher Anderson: And so this lack of confidence from — on the client-side and how is this showing up on the lawyers’ side, I mean what’s happening with them?

Tyler Todd: Well and I think what’s happening is the lawyers may be getting the bad name or the bad rep because they’re not seeing the client, the consumers not seeing the results they want. So hence we talk about technology and technology in the legal space is growing, it’s evolving and we need to adopt it and embrace it.

Christopher Anderson: And this technology you feel can help to close this gap?

Tyler Todd: Absolutely.

Christopher Anderson: Bring the consumers and the lawyers closer together.

Tyler Todd: And increase the confidence because it’s going to make — technology will make lawyers more efficient and unfortunately, there’s a lot of technology out there that that suggests to replace lawyers. I’m not suggesting that at all. We don’t want to replace lawyers, lawyers are valuable and the services they provide are extremely valuable. But we do need to be more efficient.

Christopher Anderson: Absolutely.

Tyler Todd: And that will be better for the consumer, trust and confidence will increase. Hopefully, that will drive down prices but everyone’s winning because the amount of services are being provided increases.

Christopher Anderson: Right and value is actually being delivered.

Tyler Todd: Absolutely.

Christopher Anderson: So at the top of the show, I mentioned that one of the technologies we’re going to talk about is blockchain. Before we even start talking about it, I think there’s a real lack of understanding out there about what blockchain is? I mean people have heard of cryptocurrency, people have heard of Bitcoin and Ethereum and some of the others.

Some people have heard of them, very few people understand them, and very few people understand that underlying technology. So let’s spend just a couple of minutes can you explain what is blockchain and then we’ll get to how it can really be applied to the legal business?

Tyler Todd: Great. First of all, it’s a loaded question. So thank you. It depends on who you ask you might get a different response from everyone you ask. But blockchain was created initially to be the transaction ledger of Bitcoin.

Christopher Anderson: Right.

Tyler Todd: That was why it was created. And I believe it was Satoshi Nakamoto that the created blockchain so that when a transaction in a Bitcoin happened, it was accounted for and it was secured and you could go back and identify that. But that blockchain technology has evolved to be applicable to multiple industries.

Christopher Anderson: Sure. But really key to that, what I found fascinating about it is the way it was designed was unlike everything else we’ve known until then where there was a central arbiter of that transaction. You and I trade stock on the New York Stock Exchange, it’s the New York Stock Exchange and one computer that says okay, Tyler has now sold that stock to Chris, it’s now owned by Chris.

In blockchain, there’s no central arbiter of that transaction.

Tyler Todd: Correct, correct. And that’s a key component to the blockchain because that then transaction record is across multiple computers and servers and cannot be hacked into.

Christopher Anderson: Right.

Tyler Todd: And that’s the beauty of it. Some people ask well why do we need blockchain, how is this going to revolutionize the internet and that’s exactly it, the transparency and the security of the transactions.

Christopher Anderson: Right.

Tyler Todd: And so, as you said, it was initially for Bitcoin but I’ve heard blockchain being used to track bananas. So blockchain being used to track in this circumstance to track and authenticate legal documents, photos, just to really provide some authenticity because of the unique transaction ledger that you talked about that’s distributed and unhackable.

Christopher Anderson: Exactly.

Tyler Todd: And I think that’s the applicability in the legal world. There’s a lot of discussion regarding smart contracts and that can apply not only to legal world but many industries. But in the blockchain, when there’s a contract and there’s a terms for certain conditions and precedents to be met, when X is met, and Y is triggered, it happens.

Christopher Anderson: Yeah.

Tyler Todd: It’s not independent of a third party or a subjective component saying well, I don’t like X anymore.

Christopher Anderson: Right.

Tyler Todd: You’re not going to get my Y. Well wait a second, and so it enables and it’s going to create the confidence in the legal world because if I contract to do something, it will be done.

Christopher Anderson: Right, so yeah, this is enhancing that level of confidence that you said was lacking both on the consumer side and on the lawyer side.

Tyler Todd: Absolutely. Absolutely.

Christopher Anderson: And so, we’re going to take a break here. We’re talking with Tyler Todd, the COO of 1LAW and we’ve talked about the justice gap and now we’ve talked about blockchain as an enabling technology to sort of bringing that gap together. So when we come back from this break, we’re going to talk with Tyler about how blockchain and other technologies can be used and like what’s the actual application to bring that all together, now that we have an understanding of what it is.

But first, one more time from our sponsors.

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Christopher Anderson: All right, and we are back with Tyler Todd here on the Un-Billable Hour and we’ve been talking about access to justice and about the really the two sided monster that we’ve created, a bunch of consumers that don’t think they have access to justice and lawyers thinking that there’s not enough clients out there and a lot of its being driven by a lack of confidence in the system.

And so we talked about what blockchain is and how it might be one of the enabling technologies that can help to bridge this gap. So Tyler, let’s get right to it. How can blockchain help to bring consumers back into believing that there’s access to justice and lawyers to believing that they can provide it, I guess at an affordable rate that will bring consumers back to the marketplace? How can that all happen?

Tyler Todd: I think first and foremost transparency. If I agree to pay X amount of dollars for a retainer to a lawyer and that lawyer is to provide XYZ, then via the blockchain when I make that payment and those services provided, then everything is accounted for.

Christopher Anderson: Everything is as it was meant to be.

Tyler Todd: Exactly. So I think transparency and accountability from a consumer perspective and then efficiency from the lawyer perspective, and that’s all done via the blockchain.

Christopher Anderson: Right, and so that will give consumers a lot more confidence. How can this help to give lawyers more confidence in the system as well?

Tyler Todd: Well, I think one particular applicability of the blockchain that we see it is for example, a document repository.

Christopher Anderson: Right.

Tyler Todd: Okay, in litigation, oftentimes we’re fighting over pieces of evidence and for example, in another conversation, I had with another lawyer was probate litigation and well, we couldn’t find dad’s will. And well I had a conversation and he said this, well, no, he said this and no, he said that.

Christopher Anderson: Right.

Tyler Todd: And ex-wife said no, he told me why we were married, it was this. And new wife said, no, it’s not what he said, it was this. If we had a document repository on the blockchain of dad’s will, there’s no fight.

Christopher Anderson: And we would know, it’s the authentic, what you’d know it’s the last one?

Tyler Todd: Well, theoretically yes, because when one document has changed on the blockchain, it’s changed everywhere.

Christopher Anderson: Right.

Tyler Todd: And so, you would then be able to say well this is the last document presented onto the blockchain or downloaded or whatever you do with it, this is the document.

Christopher Anderson: And it’s unalterable because that would change the chain. It wouldn’t say who did it, like yeah.

Tyler Todd: Absolutely. Absolutely. And so, then again you gain confidence in the system, you gain confidence in the lawyer’s ability to have the document drafted, the litigation if there would be a litigation process, hopefully should be more smooth and more efficient and mostly more cost-effective.

Christopher Anderson: That all makes sense. So now for me and whatever the last point I wanted to really get to with you is that okay, so now we’ve got lawyers who have a way to be more efficient and to bring their services to market at may be a more effective cost. We have a way to give consumers more confidence in the system and in that, they’re going to get the value that they paid for.

But now, we still need to bring them together. One of the things you mentioned was like this really high cost of advertising and quite honestly a lack of knowledge is one of the problems. So I think one of the things you mentioned was a marketplace. How could a marketplace help to bring all of this what we talked about together into a solution?

Tyler Todd: Well therein lies what we’re doing at 1LAW.

Christopher Anderson: Okay.

Tyler Todd: We believe that through the 1LAW platform, those lawyers that may not have the financial resources or the know-how to really market themselves or their company can do so through the 1LAW platform. And that’s why we’ve developed the technology with the platform, the brand 1LAW is we believe that through that platform, we can really connect consumers with lawyers and lawyers with consumers.

And that the technology that we’ve created through Artificial Intelligence, the Docubot form automation, chatbot services, you really have all that technology at the lawyer’s fingertips.

(00:25:00)

And so we are saying to the lawyers, come join our network and make your practice more efficient and we will help you do that and hopefully to the consumers, hey here’s a lot of brilliant lawyers out there that are just waiting to provide their services to you. Here they are.

Christopher Anderson: And one of the things that really strikes me like — I don’t know if you’ve ever read Seth Godin’s The Icarus Deception, you were talking earlier about how AI can replace certain things, about how lawyer services. It’s really the lawyers’ art, that’s the value right. It states that thinking part, the really creative thinking art part of law that really provides value to the consumer. Right?

Tyler Todd: Thank you for saying that. Yes we are — our motto is augmenting legal services, not replacing it.

Christopher Anderson: Right.

Tyler Todd: We want to augment legal services and help the lawyers be more efficient and let them do what they do best.

Christopher Anderson: Right. I mean in a sense you really liberate lawyers to practice their art.

Tyler Todd: Correct.

Christopher Anderson: Tyler, thank you so much for being a guest on The Un-Billable Hour.

Tyler Todd: Thank you for having me, I’ve enjoyed it. Thank you.

Christopher Anderson: Great. And this wraps up this edition of The Un-Billable Hour, the Law Business Advisory Podcast. And again my guest today has been Tyler Todd the COO of 1LAW.

Tyler you said that people if they want to learn more about what 1LAW does or about access to justice and all these things, they can check you out on your website 1law.com and then you mentioned that Twitter, Facebook, LinkedIn it’s all the same, it’s just 1LAW.

Tyler Todd: 1law.com, absolutely.

Christopher Anderson: Fantastic. This is Christopher Anderson and I look forward to seeing you next month with another great guest as we learn more about topics that help us build the law firm business that works for you.

Remember, you can subscribe to all the editions of this podcast at  HYPERLINK “http://www.legaltalknetwork.com” legaltalknetwork.com or on iTunes. Thanks for joining us and we will see you again soon.

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Outro: The views expressed by the participants of this program are their own and do not represent the views of, nor are they endorsed by Legal Talk Network, its officers, directors, employees, agents, representatives, shareholders and subsidiaries. None of the content should be considered legal advice. As always, consult a lawyer.

Thanks for listening to The Un-Billable Hour, the Law Practice Advisory Podcast. Join us again for the next edition, right here with Legal Talk Network.

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