Hard To Say Where Arrested Lawyer Went Wrong But Posting About Selling Drugs Probably Didn’t Help

Episode Notes

Transcript

Joe Patrice:

We are back. Hey, this is Thinking Like. A Lawyer. I’m Joe Patrice, that was Kathryn Rubino. Chris Williams here too. We’re all from Above the Law above the lawyer. I almost said

Kathryn Rubino:

That’s not the name of the website.

Joe Patrice:

That’s fine. Thinking Like. A Lawyer is this show. Above the Law is the website. We’re all from that publication and we And

Kathryn Rubino:

We’re here today

Joe Patrice:

Yes. To talk about some of the big legal stories from the week that was, although in this case, we may be talking about the week that currently is.

Kathryn Rubino:

Yeah. I think there was a long weekend, obviously, and sometimes what is actually important, there’s a lot of news dumps on a Friday. People are kind of tuned out. We’re going to, we’re going to make it things. Things got crazy. Yeah, things got crazy. Yeah.

Joe Patrice:

No. So we begin, as we always do with a little bit of small talk.

Speaker 3:

Small Talk.

Joe Patrice:

So yeah. So last week I was at the ABA tech show in Chicago.

Kathryn Rubino:

Not small talk.

Joe Patrice:

It absolutely is. I saw while I was there.

Chris Williams:

Here’s what I did at work.

Joe Patrice:

Listen, the fact that I’m more deeply professional than all the rest of you, that’s

Kathryn Rubino:

Fine. The fact that you have no life outside of the shop.

Chris Williams:

I mention this last week, the show,

Kathryn Rubino:

I feel like we could just repeat the segment. Yes.

Joe Patrice:

You all keep being wrong anyway, until you all keep wrong. You all keep

Chris Williams:

Being wrong. Anyway, so while I was due at the event I was, so, while

Joe Patrice:

I was at, was at the tech show, I saw this sizzle reel that Legal Talk network put together for previewing all shows. Had some nice video of the three of us chatting.

Kathryn Rubino:

Well, we just cuties.

Joe Patrice:

Yeah, so that’s what I was going to say is that there’s like a commercial now and we’re featured in it. Ooh. Yeah. See how this is actually small talk as opposed to a work conversation. But you two just can’t

Kathryn Rubino:

Still work related.

Chris Williams:

Yeah. Yeah. Medium at

Kathryn Rubino:

Best. This podcast is in fact part of our job.

Joe Patrice:

It’s podcast business I suppose, but that’s also outside the actual business of what we do, which is discussing the stories from the week. That was so,

Kathryn Rubino:

Yeah. Well, we just came off of a long weekend. Chris, did you do anything fun during that time?

Chris Williams:

I fell hard as shit. Oh yeah. So I was walking down my stairs and I don’t know if my socks were extra socky and I just fell real hard and after that happened, it’s hard to remember anything else that happened over the last two days. But I, I’ve been All right. My foot hurts a little bit. But

Kathryn Rubino:

Did you get concussed? Is that why your memory’s failing?

Chris Williams:

No, it’s just, I guess maybe I have some part of my frontal cortex is in my left pinky toe, but something about the blunt force trauma just kind of wiped out everything else. But I’m fine mostly, and my hair protects from most falls.

Kathryn Rubino:

There you go. Built in protection.

Chris Williams:

But yeah, other than that, another non-work related thing I’ve been doing been this game. It’s called Monster Hunter World Ice Born. And I’ve been getting my ass kicked, but I’ve been also kicking as, those

Kathryn Rubino:

Were a lot, lot of words that don’t really pull up a specific image in my mind.

Chris Williams:

Yeah, there’s even a little colon. So it’s Monster Hunter World Colon ice born. It’s actually pretty representative of the game. So there’s this one area where it’s, do you

Joe Patrice:

Hunt monsters

Chris Williams:

Throughout the world? Yes. Oh

Joe Patrice:

Wow. Okay.

Kathryn Rubino:

Is it like the next ice age that the game takes place in? Or are you hunting monsters in Antarctica?

Chris Williams:

Well, there’s actually different locations and one of them is called the RO reach. It’s like a tundra icy place and it’s like an ice dragon there. Kind of

Kathryn Rubino:

Ice dragon.

Chris Williams:

Ice dragon. Yes.

Joe Patrice:

Technically the monsters just have to be born in the ice. The rest of the world doesn’t have to be an ice.

Kathryn Rubino:

Well, that was my query. That was my

Joe Patrice:

Query. Alright, so again, Kathryn, how are you feeling? You were sick?

Kathryn Rubino:

Yes, I am still getting over my cold, but living the dream. Living the dream here. Alright. You sound like you’re getting one too over here. Yeah. Sniffy mc sniffers.

Joe Patrice:

Yeah. Well, I mean two conferences back. That’s his rapper

Chris Williams:

Name actually.

Joe Patrice:

Yeah. No, that’s fair. No two conferences back to back. It’ll

Kathryn Rubino:

Do plays

Joe Patrice:

You, it plays with your immunity.

Chris Williams:

I think that’s called Covid.

Joe Patrice:

No, and I mean mercifully, it is not CO. It passed relatively quickly for me. I mean, I’ve still got some leftover residual sniffing, but more or less I was just sore throat and some sniffing for a day, and then I’ve been fine ever since. But you’re up all night because you wake up first thing have meetings, then you stay out all night with all of the other events that the conference has, and then you turn right around to do it again. Do that enough days in a row and your body decides to go to war with you.

Chris Williams:

Also. What is the C’S guidelines on covid now? Is it like a episode of Maori?

Joe Patrice:

I actually don’t know exactly what the C’S guidelines are. I gather if you feel you’re at risk or whatever, you should wear stuff, but that’s about it anyway. Does that conclude small talk, do we think?

Kathryn Rubino:

Sure.

Chris Williams:

One last thing. Somebody asked to appreciate the ice borne cold transition. That was brilliant.

Joe Patrice:

Oh, fair, fair, fair. So one of the things that did happen last week, but at the very end tail end of last week is that the Alabama Supreme Court decided to issue a ruling. So the Alabama Supreme Court issued a ruling in a fairly odd set of facts. It was a case about parents who were undergoing IVF treatment. They had some frozen embryos in a clinic. Someone broke into the clinic and tried to steal embryos and dropped them and ruined the samples. It is a weird crime. But the parents all decided they wanted to sue the clinic for negligently allowing this to happen. And they chose a law that is on the books in Alabama and has been since the 19th century saying that if you are responsible for killing a child, you might be financially liable. The clinic obviously responded with, these aren’t children because they’re not even implanted cells. The Supreme Court of Alabama ruled they are children because all unborn, whether in utero or not or in a test tube or not, these are all children. They cited some textual issues. The dissent went through and explained, made no sense even under their own rubric, but whatever.

Kathryn Rubino:

I mean, the irony here is that parents who are using IVF to expand their family are ultimately going to be responsible for the end of IVF, at least in their state.

Joe Patrice:

Yeah. I mean, as I put it, the monkey paw didn’t work out there, the ruling, because of the way in which the ruling came down, these families basically destroyed any chance of anyone in Alabama ever expanding their family through IVF again and even themselves expanding their families further because it’s not viable to have IVF clinics without the ability to destroy. Now wait,

Chris Williams:

You said someone broke in, right?

Joe Patrice:

Yeah, that’s the facts of this. Yeah. Oh

Chris Williams:

My God. So would it make sense to charge this person with felony murder?

Joe Patrice:

Well, so that’s not really on the discussion here because I don’t think they even know it’s, I don’t know though they even did it. But you are hitting on the important thing, which is this decision because of the way in which they chose to articulate the decision goes much further than the limited set of facts. I think the argument is the justices would defend themselves arguably by saying, Hey, by saying that this would apply to unborn, it doesn’t really do anything for IVF because a parent who is through the process and consents to the embryos being destroyed would not sue. And so therefore there wouldn’t be an argument, and it would only be if it was destroyed for some other reason, that would be their claim. However, they didn’t articulate it that way. They didn’t say that there was some sort of limited financial gain here.

They said that the state constitution requires them to read all texts with an eye towards the idea that embryos would be living beings for the sake of the law. Which goes a little further than just saying that there’s some sort of a financial argument here. So in this instance, this makes IVF untenable, the majority tried to make some textual and originalist arguments. The dissent, which was also a very conservative jurist, but one who has some sense of not being hypocritical went through and explained that the text does not support any of that. They kind of bumbled through that. But the concurrences were perhaps more interesting because the multiple concurrences just went ahead and said, we don’t understand why the majority, we agree with the result, but we don’t understand why the majority is messing around with the text of the statute so much because the Bible says this and cited a bunch of that.

So kind of go in the full theocracy route. But my take on it, and look, they’re far more serious legal commentators than those of us here at the kind of bad kids table that is Above the Law who are talking about the real implications of this. I just decided to focus on the absolute chaos that the rule against perpetuity has become under this ruling. Oh no. Oh yes. Because I mean, I went in and Alabama has a rule against perpetuity still on the books. And that rule against perpetuity is quite literally that a property, an interest in a property must vest, if at all, and if in the life of a life in being at the time or but plus 21 years. So the ruling has now created a infinite life potentially to the extent that you could keep an embryo on ice forever and supreme. If Alabama claims that that’s what’s going on here, that these embryos are lives in being for that purpose, there’s nothing to suggest that you couldn’t create an infinite property lockup in violation of certainly the purpose of the rule against perpetuity. No. So have fun with the Alabama bar everybody.

Chris Williams:

So the egg ruling scrambled rat.

Joe Patrice:

Yeah, that’s fair. I like it. I mean, oui is an egg dish, right?

Chris Williams:

No, it’s like,

Joe Patrice:

Isn’t it? Okay.

Chris Williams:

No, it’s like tomatoes and cucumbers or something. No squash.

Joe Patrice:

Oh, you know what it is? Oui is an eggplant dish. That’s my issue. I was like, there’s eggs somewhere in this conversation. Whatever. I’m not cultured enough to be, all I understand is there’s a Disney movie with a rat. That’s all I got. But anyway, that’s what’s going on there. So I was struggling to think of some other mischief that could come from this sort of rule, but

Chris Williams:

Oh, I instantly thought of felony murder.

Joe Patrice:

Oh yeah. Well, I instant

Chris Williams:

Felony murder.

Joe Patrice:

Well, yeah, no, and I think if they knew the perpetrator of this, then yeah, they absolutely could. Well, hell, they don’t even need to get to felony murder. I think they could argue that murder destroying them as murder. Yeah.

Chris Williams:

But I wonder if they go the felony murder route, you might be able to loop more people in.

Joe Patrice:

Yeah, maybe. Look, the whole industry can’t function in a world in which you can’t destroy these because for anybody who doesn’t know how this works, they are not children. The way aren’t children is because there are a lot of unhappy IVF families. It is something that you can go through and try and go through multiple times and it just doesn’t stick. And that’s why they create as many as they can and try to run through as many runs of it as they can in order to get a successful result. That means there are multiple created embryos who at the end, whether successful or not, have to not spend forever in a freezer. So anyway, that’s yo,

Chris Williams:

If there’s ever an unforeseen power outage and a fridge goes out, that death toll would be crazy.

Joe Patrice:

So that’s the issue. So that’s why one would expect off of this decision that any clinic trying to deal with infertility in Alabama has to shut its doors and move elsewhere. Continuing the growing crisis in some of these states for we had this crisis of OBGYNs not wanting to practice in these states because of the rules they’re creating. We now can add fertility experts to the list of folks who are probably going to have to move on. McDermott will and Emory is Vault’s number one law firm for associate satisfaction three years running. Why? Because they’re doing big law better. At McDermott, you define what your success looks like, they help you achieve it. Award-winning professional development program and hands-on mentorship propel you toward your goals while the industry leading wellness benefits help you feel your best. So you can do your best. Want to see how your life could be better at McDermott? Head to mw.com/ Above, the Law. Okay. Chris, you’ve been covering one of the weirdest trials that we’ve seen, at least in my time here at Above, the Law, and there’s a new wrinkle in it that probably will, it could come up on an ethics exam, but I mean, I don’t think it would because I don’t think anybody else would ever do this.

Chris Williams:

Those are words said right before, so many ethics violations. No one would ever insert here and then we see on Fox anyway. Yes. So as if the YSL case wasn’t interesting enough, I would say an attorney got caught in up in legal trouble in the middle of it, but that would be inaccurate. This is the second attorney that this happened to. A defense attorney. Her name is Nicole Fagan, who was representing a defendant named Aquarius Mender. That is an interesting name. Anyway, she’s getting charged with participating in criminal street gang activity and criminal solicitation to commit tampering with evidence. Oh yeah. She ended up giving him legal advice and he was not her client and it’s not going well.

Joe Patrice:

So that sounds like a very technical problem, but that legal advice, that certainly wasn’t legal advice that might go beyond the bounds of legal and be actually to destroy something or anything. Was it?

Chris Williams:

Oh yeah. That’s the tampering, yeah.

Joe Patrice:

Oh, so her advice was what exactly?

Chris Williams:

Well, she told him to throw his phone away.

Joe Patrice:

No, that’s a shame. That’s not going to work.

Chris Williams:

And she provided him with info that she found out during a preliminary hearing and she said to throw his phone away, the police were going to arrest him.

Joe Patrice:

That’s a shame. Well, at least this woman has maintained professional reputation that would put her above reproach that she can lean upon to suggest that these charges are made up. I

Chris Williams:

Mean, it depends on how we define professional. I would say that she’s made some marketing decisions that which what might in other cases appear to be above the board if you are paying attention to the work that she does, and if you forgot your glasses on the nightstand, it really doesn’t look good considering what she’s in trouble for.

Joe Patrice:

Yeah. So some tiktoks where

Chris Williams:

There are some videos where she’s giving advice to women dating drug dealers on how to behave when their man is in jail. There is pictures of her are several pictures with her with guns. One may have drugs in the background. There’s a picture with her peewee Longway who is like a well-known rapper in Atlanta. It’s levels. It looks like something that was part of an SNL sketch back when SNL was funny.

Joe Patrice:

She have a post that you showed me. There was one post you still had up that was talking about. It was something along the lines of, you give me me an opportunity, give me five minutes and I’ll be selling drugs out the book or something like that.

Chris Williams:

So I have to say something, you were incorrect. You said she still had up as if it’s not there anymore, it’s still there.

Joe Patrice:

I take that

Chris Williams:

There were a couple of moments where you’re like, oh, Counsel needs Counsel. All this shit is still on a public facing Instagram page.

Joe Patrice:

Why isn’t that private

Chris Williams:

Yet?

Joe Patrice:

I believe I can now. It was, I suck at cuddling five minutes in. I’m selling drugs out of your crib. Pull right in front. Probably

Chris Williams:

One of the important things about hanging your own shingle, whatever you got to market to your clients, but there’s a fine line between marketing and asking to get arrested, and this might be one of those instances where she TRAPed over to the ladder. Oh

Joe Patrice:

Yeah. I mean this really is a small laws, small and Solo story, isn’t it? Deep down, we’re all about legal marketing. Maybe this is a better subject for Lunch, Hour, Legal, Marketing.

Chris Williams:

Oh, speaking of marketing. So she had this hashtag got proof thing. It had all over shirts and whatnot and aforementioned peewee longway, whose name I will say as often as I get the chance to, has a rap song where he shook, where he’s given a shout out to his lawyer. So it’s just interesting to see this strange connection of rap and law.

Joe Patrice:

This story got me thinking about a story from several years ago, which was, there was a lawyer in Pittsburgh who had a young lawyer who had an ad out where he said to get a lawyer if you’re in trouble, you need a lawyer who thinks like a criminal and you can trust me. I think a criminal. And his ad was just showing people committing crimes and then calling him and getting off. It was bold. It was a choice. That lawyer went to prison apparently when he said he understood how to think a criminal, he meant he was actually a drug dealer himself. Yeah. It’s actually kind of a sad story there. The follow-up piece, which we did not, I’m not the author I wrote of the ad, but there was a follow-up piece in the Atlantic or New Republic, one of those magazines talking about his last days before he went, before he turned himself into prison. Prison. And it kind of talked about the prison system and the way the drug war is bad and all that. But it also highlighted that this guy had more or less put himself in the crosshairs with the way in which he marketed, which it sounds like a lesson that was not learned in Atlanta.

Chris Williams:

Yeah. I mean there are some times where you see, let’s call it art, and you see some works of art and you’re like, oh, this artist may have been cursed with the gift of prophecy if only they understood. And then other times where it’s like, oh, this person is stupid and had a camera. It feels like, come on some of the pictures I’m like, this has to be photoshopped. But then I’m like, no, no, Photoshop isn’t that good because it’s so, and well, maybe it’s an onion writer will be like, come on dog. Can you tone this down a little bit? There was one video where she’s speaking in a, she’s wearing a bonnet now. If you see this woman’s hair, she probably does not need a bonnet. It’s not the level of pandering where Hillary Clinton had the hot sauce in her bag, but it’s pretty damn close. It’s like, come on, glad white you read a bonnet.

Joe Patrice:

Well, maybe it’s not Photoshop. It’s What’s the new one that does video based on artificial intelligence prompts? Sora?

Chris Williams:

Yeah, I saw that. I saw that. We are in danger. This might be more small talk area, but give it a year. Give it a year. There’s going to be videos. People don’t in court be like, that’s not me. We see you be, you see where it says sorrow on the bottom left. That is not me.

Joe Patrice:

It seems like it’s not perfect. It looks real. They’re just too ridiculous to be real. But still, you know you’re

Chris Williams:

Coming. Yes. My thing is, I think it was like remember two years ago when they were like AI generated photographs and it looked like what people see when they have a stroke or something. It was like, identify one thing in this photo. To go from that to Sora is crazy. And that’s not even a generation that’s like two years

Joe Patrice:

Ago. It’s moving fast. That’s why the conversation of legal tech is so very interesting. Oh, come

Chris Williams:

On. My God. Oh God.

Joe Patrice:

Listen

Chris Williams:

Now it’s really small. Sounds like small talk.

Kathryn Rubino:

It’s not the legal tech journalist round table,

Joe Patrice:

Joe. Oh, another show that perhaps I’m in. Yeah. Alright, fine. Alright. Final topic. It’s going to be a Kathryn thing. I actually don’t know which of your various stories it’s going to be because there’s a few that are pretty good. You’ve got, I’ve

Kathryn Rubino:

Decided to go with the one that I find the most. What in the actual fuck?

Joe Patrice:

Okay,

Chris Williams:

So ful,

Kathryn Rubino:

I think I had this written down on our sort of internal editorial calendar as the Indiana Jones story because a big law firm made plans to move into a new location in for their London office. And it turns out that those plans might be delayed.

Joe Patrice:

Okay,

Kathryn Rubino:

Where’s the Indiana Jones? You may ask. It’s a common, turns out that the location that there soon to be office, hopefully one day will be, is an ancient burial ground.

Joe Patrice:

Okay.

Kathryn Rubino:

Used as burial ground, burial ground. Both in Roman era as well as in the 16th century. So multiple levels of curses really is what I’m hearing. And the Museum of London archeology did some excavating. See Indiana Jones is coming up, found a bunch of stuff in the location including oak coffins, a glass vial jewelry, a decorated lamp, and yep, skeletal remains.

Chris Williams:

Did they find a spare shroud to run?

Kathryn Rubino:

They said that the discovery was incredibly rare, which good. But it also is that the kind of place you want to be at five o’clock in the morning when you’re doing pulling an all-nighter to work on some document is not, I don’t want a place where I know, I know for a fact that they bounce skill. So remains here. I

Joe Patrice:

Mean

Kathryn Rubino:

This is a lot. I mean, I used to live in Battery Park City. There was nothing buried there. It was new land, right? Well, right.

Joe Patrice:

Yeah. So that doesn’t really count everything else though. And you bring up New York, that actually reminds me the federal courts in New York. Remember if you go down there, you can see there’s a little awkward how the building is shaped on one side. And that’s because they, during excavation discovered that there was an unmarked cemetery that they were going and they didn’t disturb that. So they built around that. And that’s why the court has a little bit of an awkward situation. This came up there and it was unmarked because it was a colonial era cemetery for black deceased folks, which didn’t warrant being marked at the time, but they discovered that while they were building the new courthouse and they worked around that to preserve

Kathryn Rubino:

It. Yeah, because you don’t want to actually work on top of an ancient burial ground.

Chris Williams:

I hear you. But then I’m like, there was that one time that 20,000 bodies were found buried under Washington Square Park. There are just a lot of, there are a lot of,

Kathryn Rubino:

Listen, listen, I’ve been to Savannah

Joe Patrice:

Knows

Kathryn Rubino:

Exist. I hear you. This just feels like a certain level of creepy. No,

Chris Williams:

But I’m saying that the creepy is quotidian. It’s all creepy. There is so much buried shit.

Kathryn Rubino:

The law firm, by the way, who his plans are at least temporarily disrupted is Hogan levels their London office. But I don’t know man, they don’t

Chris Williams:

Sit right. I hear you. It but also that’s my argument. That’s my argument.

Joe Patrice:

Ancient Rome though, I feel like, look, I feel like there’s almost a statute of limitations on when you can be worried about poltergeists. I think that what are they going

Chris Williams:

To die

Joe Patrice:

Again? Yeah, well look sort of, I feel like if you are building on top of a couple hundred year old cemetery, there’s some expectation that that’s desecrating in a bad way. But when you’re building on top of 3000 year old ones or 2000 year old ones,

Kathryn Rubino:

Okay. But it was used again in the 16th century. Okay.

Chris Williams:

I think we all know, I think we all know international law is fake, but ghost law, that’s what you’re talking about right now.

Joe Patrice:

Listen, go. Hey look, I’m a member of the New York State Bar and we are the state that has a legal haunted house. Sure,

Chris Williams:

Sure. I’m just imagining if somebody having a casebook that also comes with a Ouija board.

Kathryn Rubino:

Maybe there are other places where there are firms built on top of ancient burial grounds.

Joe Patrice:

Almost certainly.

Kathryn Rubino:

Sure. New Orleans is a city and has law firms.

Joe Patrice:

I get it. I’m sure Jones Day draws its power from necromancy.

Kathryn Rubino:

Well, it’s better when you don’t know. No.

Joe Patrice:

Yeah.

Chris Williams:

Well now all the employees can enjoy bonuses and a nice little satchel of sage that comes whenever bonuses comes in.

Joe Patrice:

You mean bonuses?

Kathryn Rubino:

Amazing. I’m going

Chris Williams:

To kill you for this.

Kathryn Rubino:

I amazing. I was going to say not for nothing but Halloween better be fricking lit at whole love in the future. Oh yeah.

Joe Patrice:

Toga party.

Chris Williams:

Listen, that’ll give up. Come

Kathryn Rubino:

On. There are so many opportunities. If

Chris Williams:

You needed a place where you could say partner is dead long lived, affirm it is now whole.

Joe Patrice:

Amazing. Alright. Yeah. Well, the good choice. I really thought that when you chose not to talk about John Oliver, it was going to be a less fun topic and I was wrong

Kathryn Rubino:

Somehow. This is one of those stories I found on a Friday afternoon. I actually turned it into one of our daily features, trivia question of the day and supposed to a full story. But really, really, I was just sad that I didn’t get to talk about it more so I didn’t get to make any Indiana Jones jokes at the time. So

Joe Patrice:

Was this a roll on story or something like that? Yes. Roll on Friday. Who we always like to mention are

Chris Williams:

Something roll on Friday.

Joe Patrice:

Yeah,

Kathryn Rubino:

Seriously. If you’re at all involved in the London legal market, actually it wasn’t roll on, it was legal cheek

Joe Patrice:

Legal, both a legal cheek, the legal cheek and role on Friday. Both folks that we like to tell people

Kathryn Rubino:

For all of our information across the pond. Yeah.

Joe Patrice:

There are spiritual

Kathryn Rubino:

Ambassador ambassadors,

Joe Patrice:

Spiritual. Oh yeah, yeah. Ambassadors to the across the pod way. Right. Well, cool. Anything else?

Kathryn Rubino:

That was a story I wanted to talk about Long

Chris Williams:

Live full

Joe Patrice:

Of. Yeah, no, thanks everybody for listening. You should subscribe to the show so you get new episodes when they come out. You should leave reviews, write something, give stars. That all helps more people find the show. You should check out other programs like the Jabot, which Kathryn hosts and the Legal Tech Journalist Roundtable, which I’m a guest on should check out, which we’ve already plugged once in this show. You should check out other shows on the Legal Talk network, including the Lunch Hour Legal Marketing, which we’ve already had a plug for. See I see

Kathryn Rubino:

This is low key, one of our plugs episodes.

Joe Patrice:

Yeah, so you should do all those things. You should read Above the Law, so you see these and other stories. Before we chat about them here, you should be following us on the various social medias. I will say that on X Twitter, we are at ATL blog. I’m at Joseph Patrice. She’s at Kathryn one, the number one there. Christopher is at rights for rent. The rights being like pen and paper rights, not legal rights for rent. We’re also on Blue sky except I’m Joe Patrice over there. And with all that said, I think we’re done. Right. Peace. Okay, we will see folks later.

Chris Williams:

Peace.

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