How Much Would Biglaw Have To Pay You To Stay?

Episode Notes

Transcript

[Music]

Joe Patrice: Hello.

Kathryn Rubino: Hello.

Joe Patrice: And welcome to Thinking Like A Lawyer. I’m Joe Patrice. That’s Kathryn Rubino. We are both at Above The Law which — I don’t know if you caught this. Somebody actually wrote us and verified that there is a person out there who listens to the show, but doesn’t necessarily being the website.

Kathryn Rubino: Yes, I did see. Thanks for writing.

Joe Patrice: Thank you. Thanks for verifying this long-time concern that we’ve had about whether or not that that exists, but we’re from Above The Law. Well, for those of you who do also read the website, and we are back again to do our weekly check-in on what the big legal landscape stories were of the week that was.

Kathryn Rubino: How was your weekend and this past week on a personal level? Not necessarily just about the law.

Joe Patrice: Wait, are you asking me like just like a random small talk thing?

Kathryn Rubino: Yeah.

Joe Patrice: Because that means —

[Music]

Kathryn Rubino: God, I hate you so much.

Joe Patrice: That means we’re in the segment of Small Talk.

Kathryn Rubino: It is Small Talk.

Joe Patrice: Yeah, I’m fine. Nothing too crazy. I struggled with some more insect bites.

Kathryn Rubino: More?

Joe Patrice: Oh, yeah. I think — did I even discuss that the week before I ran afoul of a wasp’s nest?

Kathryn Rubino: Well, that’s not something you want to run afoul of.

Joe Patrice: I did not.

Kathryn Rubino: That was ill-advised. Why did you do that?

Joe Patrice: I didn’t intend to, but I had — yeah, I think we went over this, didn’t we?

Kathryn Rubino: It’s still funny.

Joe Patrice: Anyway, whatever.

Kathryn Rubino: Your pain makes me laugh.

Joe Patrice: So, I got those and I just finally got over those injuries and then I got really attacked by mosquitos.

Kathryn Rubino: Well, you know, malaria to one side probably less terrible.

Joe Patrice: Yeah, they definitely hurt less, but there’s a lot more of them.

Kathryn Rubino: That’s probably bad.

Joe Patrice: Yeah, like 20 or 30.

Kathryn Rubino: Oh, that sounds like a lot.

Joe Patrice: Yeah.

Kathryn Rubino: That’s — Okay. Well, sorry about that. So, are you okay to continue? Is this impacting your day?

Joe Patrice: Yeah, yeah. It is impacting my day, but I will go on because the show has to go on.

Kathryn Rubino: Must in fact go on.

Joe Patrice: Yeah. And you?

Kathryn Rubino: I actually just found out that my niece is negative for COVID. So that was good news.

Joe Patrice: Oh, that’s good.

Kathryn Rubino: Yeah, she’s 10 years old but lives in Texas.

Joe Patrice: Right, which means that, you know, you assume positive.

Kathryn Rubino: Well, she’s back to school.

Joe Patrice: Yeah.

Kathryn Rubino: She is in fact wearing a mask, but I don’t believe that they’re required in her school district, and they had friends of theirs that tested positive and she probably just has a summer cold, you know, that kind of thing, but is enough for my sister to make sure that she was not.

Joe Patrice: Yeah, it is very worrisome. Yeah.

Kathryn Rubino: And that is what you do. You go, you make sure. That’s the correct thing to do. It’s funny, my sister was like, “I am doing the right thing if I keep her out of school today to get her tested?” And I was like, “Yeah. Yeah, your brain has just been warped by living in Texas. This is the correct thing to do. Your kid is sick and has been exposed to a pandemic. Please get her tested.” She said, “I thought so. I thought so. I just want to make sure.”

Joe Patrice: Yeah, no. Well, that’s good. Glad that she’s all right. Everyone, you know, take care out there.

Kathryn Rubino: Yeah.

Joe Patrice: Most of us are vaccinated who are adults, but you kind of forget about the kids.

Kathryn Rubino: Well, you do because you don’t have children.

Joe Patrice: Well, my — 

Kathryn Rubino: But people who have children probably don’t.

Joe Patrice: And even if I did, I don’t think — I don’t really care.

Kathryn Rubino: But I think most people who are parents have not forgotten that they have children.

Joe Patrice: Yeah.

Kathryn Rubino: Right? I mean, they’re kind of needy and in your face in a really aggressive way. So, I don’t think that most parents are forgetting that they have children, especially when they’re thinking about the pandemic, right? I mean, it seems like, that’s like a pretty big element to surviving the pandemic.

Joe Patrice: Fair enough.

Kathryn Rubino: Sorry.

Joe Patrice: But, yeah.

Kathryn Rubino: Just you know, anything outside of your own personal experience is little rough, huh?

Joe Patrice: Yeah, yeah. I mean, I don’t think that’s too too crazy, you know.

Kathryn Rubino: I guess. You know, emotions and empathizing with other humans is not really something your — 

Joe Patrice: Nah, overrated.

Kathryn Rubino: Overrated. Okay, okay. Cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool.

Joe Patrice: Yeah. No. But yeah. So, that was that.

Kathryn Rubino: See, I’m empathizing you because, dear listeners, he is scratching the hell out of his body. It looks like you got some on your hands.

Joe Patrice: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Can you just — yeah.

Kathryn Rubino: Oh, does it — does it bother you to point out how itchy? This is actually really fun. Maybe you should play a sound effect every time you itches.

Joe Patrice: No. We don’t have the bandwidth for that. I don’t think.

Kathryn Rubino: This is really making my day.

Joe Patrice: Yeah. Well, this has been so enjoyable.

Kathryn Rubino: And it’s funny because it started out with me making fun of you for kind of forgetting about other people’s pain and how I’m actively laughing at yours.

Joe Patrice: Yeah.

Kathryn Rubino: Like it is very funny.

Joe Patrice: Well, this has been a lot of fun and I’m real glad.

(00:04:59)

Kathryn Rubino: It has. I’m pretty sure listeners are enjoying this. I am.

Joe Patrice: I’m real glad that we — I’m glad that we had fun on this segment, this edition of —

[Music]

Joe Patrice: Small Talk. Okay. Cool.

Kathryn Rubino: Is it itchy again?

Joe Patrice: Can you transition to the actual job that we’re here to do?

Kathryn Rubino: I mean, we’re just here to get listeners and read ads.

Joe Patrice: I believe this is your story actually.

Kathryn Rubino: And that is — I think listeners are going to enjoy that.

Joe Patrice: I believe this is your story even, one of the biggest stories of the week last week. We learned about retention bonuses.

Kathryn Rubino: Oh, yeah. That was a thing? So, you know, obviously folks who are familiar with the Biglaw market have — we’ve been talking about it for a while, you know, there’s a hot lateral market for Biglaw associates particularly in a number of the corporate markets. That’s why we’re seeing special bonuses throughout Biglaw. That’s why there are raises going down because if you’re at all unhappy, you should be at least looking to see what the lateral market looks like. There’s a lot of work out there and there are not enough, particularly mid-level associates in those corporate groups.

What we learned is that rather than just kind of let it all happen, Skadden is taking according to tips are so many, so many people have reached out to us about them. And thank you, ATL Tipsters, shout out.

Joe Patrice: Yes.

Kathryn Rubino: That Skadden is giving out retention bonuses for associates that are still at the firm in June of 2022. But —

Joe Patrice: Yeah?

Kathryn Rubino: But it’s not for everybody.

Joe Patrice: Oh, uh-oh.

Kathryn Rubino: It’s not for everyone. It’s only for specific groups, the M&A capital markets in particular, which are the busiest. So those — if you’re an associate in either of those specialties, the world is your oyster. Whether you stay or leave — 

Joe Patrice: I think that’s true.

Kathryn Rubino: You’ve got lots of options and lots of money potentially on the table. But unlike, you know, and the notion of the retention bonuses is not crazy. But oftentimes, when we have heard of them in the past, it’s, you know, when someone says, puts in their two-week notice and perhaps the firm will respond with, you know, not at Skadden in particular, but in the marketplace, you know, the firm may respond.

Joe Patrice: Back recruiting as we might call it.

Kathryn Rubino: Right. Right, right? You know. Or, you know, maybe it’s for folks who are super senior and there’s like a handful of them. But to hear that the New York office in these fairly large groups are pretty much — we’ve heard that first years aren’t getting them, but from kind of second-on-up-year associates are getting them, that is quite a bit of money and that is a very aggressive move.

And the other part of it is the firm tried very hard to keep this under wraps. We are told that there’s no formal memo and everything was communicated by voice mail or in-person and we’re told to try to keep it under wraps because they didn’t want other groups getting their nose out of joint.

Joe Patrice: Yeah, I mean I hear that nip — as somebody who didn’t practice in either of those groups, I’m sure I would feel, you know, a little slighted if it come up, but also feel like I would have understood. The market is just so —

Kathryn Rubino: Bonkers.

Joe Patrice: Bonkers in those specific areas and it is reaching crisis stage at some firms for just not having enough people to do the work that’s out there. I mean, there’s a lot of financial institutions with a lot of money right now that want to place it out there.

Kathryn Rubino: Yeah, yeah.

Joe Patrice: And you need lawyers to do that and yeah, firms who are losing folks to the lateral market are coming back around very concerned because they just don’t have the bodies to get the work done. So, I understand why a firm would be willing to put what to them is a drop in the bucket. I mean, it is a lot of money, but in the grand scheme of a law firm.

Kathryn Rubino: Yeah, I guess I didn’t talk about the dollar amounts is that we’re hearing it’s generally six figures. So, there’s couple of reports of slightly under that for younger associates. But from pretty much you’re third year on, you’re talking, well, into the six figures.

Joe Patrice: Yeah, and for keeping those groups functional and the amount of revenue that those groups are bringing in, that is a grand scheme drop in the bucket, even though it is obviously a lot of money for those young lawyers and you know, you should all be putting that towards your student loans, so that you can buy yourself some freedom down the road, but whatever.

Kathryn Rubino: Make an investment in your future, pay down your student loans.

Joe Patrice: Yeah, I mean and this is a great way to do it. Getting a kind of surprise six-figure taxes exist.

Kathryn Rubino: Well, if they’re still at their firm in June of 2022 that is.

Joe Patrice: Right, yes, but that’s why they do that. And no, I wouldn’t be shocked by the way. Part of the reason why I think firms want to keep — a firm like Skadden wants to keep this under wraps is I would not be surprised if another firm that plays in the same sandbox at the same level, someone big with lots of money looking for poaching folks.

(00:10:03)

They’re going to be willing to say, “Oh well, if you come on over, I’ll match that.”

Kathryn Rubino: Right.

Joe Patrice: And that’s going to start happening with some of these firms too because this wheel is just increasingly crazy.

Kathryn Rubino: It is, it is very interesting. And man, you know, if you are that mid-level associate in those practice groups, seriously, what do you want?

Joe Patrice: Yeah.

Kathryn Rubino: That is a better question. What are you looking for?

Joe Patrice: Yeah.

Kathryn Rubino: And you know the other kind of big thing that we’ve been talking about consistently on the podcast is these back-to-office policies and whatnot and whatever the rule may be, I think that if you’re in this coveted group, you could do whatever the hell you want right now.

Joe Patrice: Yeah, they are kind of driving the trains. I think that’s fair.

Kathryn Rubino: Yeah.

Joe Patrice: Yeah, I think at this point, let’s take a break here from Lexicon and —

Kathryn Rubino: And so that you can scratch your mosquito bites without it —

Joe Patrice: Just can you like —

Kathryn Rubino: No, I can’t. I cannot. It is impossible for me not to give you shit.

Joe Patrice: Thanks.

Kathryn Rubino: Okay. Play the damn ad.

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Joe Patrice: Okay, so we are back. What else happened this week? I guess —

Kathryn Rubino: Well, I think you spent some time on the Cameo app.

Joe Patrice: I did. Cameo, not a thing that I was really all that familiar with. I’d gotten one in the past from a legal tech show that I had participated in. They sent those as a gift.

Kathryn Rubino: I’ve purchased one before for a friend.

Joe Patrice: Oh yeah? Okay. So, Cameo is this place where celebrities can be commissioned to —

Kathryn Rubino: No. Put some air quotes around that word.

Joe Patrice: Okay, fair enough. Celebrity and celebrity adjacent people —

Kathryn Rubino: There you go.

Joe Patrice: — can be given money to send personalized messages to your, well, whoever you want, I guess. It is that a fair way of describing?

Kathryn Rubino: Yes.

Joe Patrice: Okay.

Kathryn Rubino: I think that’s fair as frequently you’ll see birthday greetings or pregnancy announcements, or pep talks or, you know, graduation, you know, messages. Yeah, you can kind of pick whatever you want, and have the celebrity of your choosing that’s on Cameo, obviously, record little messages, little greetings, and they’re quite fun. You can put them then on your social media. It’s a lot of fun.

Joe Patrice: So, Rudy Giuliani who is — 

Kathryn Rubino: That took a left turn. Okay.

Joe Patrice: Rudy Giuliani who, as far as we can tell from media reports is facing mounting legal costs because of, you know, the criminal probe into his activities and such and is not getting any support from the former president, who has by all accounts, cut him off. He tried to have a GoFundMe that his friends set up that failed to raise any money to pay those fees. So, he’s in need of money. As we discussed, he does not actually work for Greenberg Traurig despite what his website says. So, he doesn’t have that job to fall back on.

Kathryn Rubino: No Biglaw payday coming for the man.

Joe Patrice: It appears as though he’s taken to Cameo in an effort to make his money back. He has 12 reviews that are all five stars.

Kathryn Rubino: Well, I think that that’s a self-selection issue.

Joe Patrice: It seems like it might be.

Kathryn Rubino: Who’s spending like 200 bucks to get Rudy Giuliani Cameo and whoever is, is almost certainly going to give him a five-star review on the back end, right?

Joe Patrice: Well, let’s actually take a second. You raised $200 there.

Kathryn Rubino: Yeah, I think, when I heard that, it was $199.

Joe Patrice: $199 is what he unveiled first. It has moved up since then. It is currently trading at $375.

Kathryn Rubino: Yikes. Okay.

Joe Patrice: You have to spend $375 to get Rudy Giuliani to talk to you for 20, 30 seconds.

Kathryn Rubino: That does not seem like a great fill.

Joe Patrice: You thought Digwell had billing rates, right? Yeah, he’s a — yeah, he generally responds within one day according to the website.

Kathryn Rubino: Not much else going on I suppose.

Joe Patrice: I guess.

Kathryn Rubino: He’s got a — 

Joe Patrice: He’s got a fan club of 266. Yeah and I — 

Kathryn Rubino: I think that just means that people are following it/think it’s hilarious, right? I would not say that the fan club is necessarily indicative of people who will pay money to do this.

Joe Patrice: Yeah. So, I saw this and did a quick write-up of it. I watched all of the demo videos that he has available for us, which he’s wearing the —

Kathryn Rubino: Our thoughts and prayers are with you.

Joe Patrice: He’s wearing the same shirt in all of them. So, it now makes me wonder if they’re actually real or if this was all just set up in order to create demo videos.

Kathryn Rubino: Maybe he only has one tie, Joe.

Joe Patrice: His shirt, the same everything. I mean, he’s intro video is in a suit and then everything else is him and he is not wearing a tie in any of these.

(00:15:04)

Kathryn Rubino: Fair, fair. I’ve not spent nearly as much time on the Rudy Giuliani Cameo beat as you have.

Joe Patrice: Yeah. It’s interesting. He has some good luck birthday greetings that all sort of devolve into him plugging his podcast.

Kathryn Rubino: Well, listen, the podcast market is a rough one.

Joe Patrice: I mean, yeah. No, it’s true. If anybody would like to send me $375, I could say happy birthday and explain how to subscribe to this podcast, because that’s basically the same thing that Rudy is doing.

Kathryn Rubino: Or I can even explain how to subscribe to his podcast. Like it’s —

Joe Patrice: Yeah, I mean, I don’t know if you could, you know, like do you know how to subscribe to this podcast?

Kathryn Rubino: Our podcast?

Joe Patrice: Yeah.

Kathryn Rubino: Yeah. You just hit the button.

Joe Patrice: Okay, right.

Kathryn Rubino: Like in your podcast app, you just hit the button and then it like downloads automatically to your phone and you get little like pings on your phone it’s like, oh, you have a new episode of Thinking Like A Lawyer available.

Joe Patrice: Fair enough. I really didn’t know if you knew the technical side of this whole endeavor.

Kathryn Rubino: I mean, I don’t think that’s super technical. I don’t — like I can’t like — I don’t know like the file size and things and what goes into the mixer and — I don’t know that. But I’ve mastered my own telephone.

Joe Patrice: I mean, yeah, yeah. No, that’s fair.

Kathryn Rubino: I can’t believe you’re surprised by that.

Joe Patrice: No, I’m not surprised by that, that’s fair.

Kathryn Rubino: I mean, I don’t listen to our podcast.

Joe Patrice: That’s what I don’t get.

Kathryn Rubino: Well, I don’t want to — I don’t like listening to myself. That’s not weird. That’s not weird.

Joe Patrice: I mean, imagine how I feel.

Kathryn Rubino:  Wow.

Joe Patrice: No, because of my voice.

Kathryn Rubino: No, that’s not what you meant.

Joe Patrice: No, you didn’t take — oh well, maybe it’s somebody who didn’t talk about my —

Kathryn Rubino: Shut up and scratch.

Joe Patrice: Maybe somebody was nicer to me. Fair enough. Yeah, but that’s what he does. He had some good pep talks for a —

Kathryn Rubino: What? What? Who is going to Rudy Giuliani for advice? Because whether you like him or don’t, you have to think things are going on the downward trajectory for the man.

Joe Patrice: I don’t — look, if I were trying to run an illegal lobbying operation out of Ukraine, I might be very interested in what his thoughts are.

Kathryn Rubino: That’s not true because he got caught.

Joe Patrice: Yeah. Well, I mean, I’d still would like to hear his thoughts.

Kathryn Rubino: This is what not to do.

Joe Patrice: Yeah. Yeah. I mean —

Kathryn Rubino: Seriously, like you have — from 2001, it’s all been down from there for him. Like, you know, November ‘01, straight down.

Joe Patrice: Yeah, it’s not been great for the poor guy, but it’s been really entertaining to watch.

Kathryn Rubino: Well, he’s a little bit richer. He is $375 richer now.

Joe Patrice: That’s true, that’s true. Yeah, but he gave gave a pep talk. He talked to this — it was bought by the parents of a high school graduate who’s going to go to NYU for undergrad and it was — 

Kathryn Rubino: Well, he will not be excited about that in a couple of years.

Joe Patrice: Right. It was Rudy giving, you know, life advice.

Kathryn Rubino: Jesus Christ.

Joe Patrice: Because the kid also wants to become a lawyer someday. So, he gave him some advice on law school.

Kathryn Rubino: Thoughts and prayers for real now.

Joe Patrice: What?

Kathryn Rubino: Thoughts and prayers for real now.

Joe Patrice: I will say of all of Rudy’s fairly terrible Cameos, I thought this one, he did the right amount of well-warned platitudes and nice encouragement and whatever about —

Kathryn Rubino: $375 worth?

Joe Patrice: Well, now I feel like these people probably got in under the wire when it was still $199. So, might not have been nearly as bad then.

Kathryn Rubino: But they are still just platitudes.

Joe Patrice:  Yeah.

Kathryn Rubino: Don’t you think that was worth the platitudes?

Joe Patrice: I mean, whatever. It was like the uncle you never see at your graduation party. He was, you know, doing that. No, I mean that’s nice, that’s what he’s supposed to do. He didn’t at any point talk about his podcast. So, I guess that’s a winner for that one.

Kathryn Rubino: Yeah, I suppose.

Joe Patrice: Yeah, he talked about how he went to NYU for law school and that as you’ll see as you walk around the area and I’m just like, based on what? I think he thinks there’s a statue of him or something.

Kathryn Rubino: I’m pretty sure that’s — well, you’re an alum.

Joe Patrice: I am.

Kathryn Rubino: Do you think there’s also a Joe Patrice statue?

Joe Patrice: Not yet.

Kathryn Rubino: There’s as much of a Joe Patrice statue as there is.

Joe Patrice: Yes, there is exactly as much.

Kathryn Rubino: As there is a Rudy Giuliani statue.

Joe Patrice: There is as much acknowledgement that I went there as that he went there. Yes, that is fair. At this point, the school is equally proud of me as a graduate as they are of Giuliani. That’s very true. Okay. So, yeah. But no, this kid is thinking of going down the path and Rudy gave him some good advice. He said, like look —

Kathryn Rubino: He knew you went to a law school to be a lawyer.

Joe Patrice: If you’re going to go, you’re going to be at law school —

Kathryn Rubino: Yeah, going to be a lawyer.

Joe Patrice: To be a lawyer, not an accountant.

Kathryn Rubino: Not an accountant, yeah. That make sense.

Joe Patrice: Yeah. So, you went to a law school to be a lawyer, not an accountant. Take advantage of Nota, a no-cost IOLTA management tool that helps solo and small law firms track client funds down to the penny. Enjoy peace of mind with one click reconciliation, automated transaction alerts, and real-time bank data. Visit trustnota.com/legal to learn more. Terms and conditions may apply.

And you know, you saw what was coming with that ad read transition. I’m very — yeah, it’s good. You’re going to have to do these next week, you know.

Kathryn Rubino: You’re going to be gone?

Joe Patrice: I am. Well, as you — as folks know, it’s the annual ILTA convention which I’ve covered for years and which as a member of the press, I’m, you know, not allowed to go to, but I’m going to be there.

(00:20:09)

Kathryn Rubino: You’re going to crash the event?

Joe Patrice: Well, I mean, I’m not going to be actually at the event, but it is a legal technology show that brings out many of the largest legal technology vendors to give press announcements of like what’s coming up for them, they often schedule their announcements around this conference. So, they’re very interested in having meetings with the press.

Kathryn Rubino: Sure, and it seems like part of it.

Joe Patrice: So, the organizers decided to not invite us and told us that we could log in and watch the keynotes over the internet which is not particularly helpful. So, I’m going.

Kathryn Rubino: Amazing.

Joe Patrice: Not being able to go to the show, but I’m in the same hotel and vendors are scheduling meetings with me and coming up.

Kathryn Rubino: You can always meet at a coffee shop, I guess.

Joe Patrice: Well, we’re in the suite. We’re in the Moria Suite, lovely suite with a nice office based and whatever. Other members of the legal press who have not also kind of got shorted on getting invites are going, and some who even did get invites.

Kathryn Rubino: Is this like a COVID thing or?

Joe Patrice: Yeah, they’re going to hang out with me and we’ll talk to vendors and report back on that all week. But it does mean that I’m not going to be here. So, you’re going to have to handle all this on your own next week.

Kathryn Rubino: I think I can manage.

Joe Patrice: I think you can too. I mean, because you do have your own show. I saw now that you have — yeah.

Kathryn Rubino: I also have my own show. That is also true.

Joe Patrice: Which I do listen to, so.

Kathryn Rubino: But it doesn’t have your voice on it. So, that make sense.

Joe Patrice: Yeah, I guess. Right. So, you have another story.

Kathryn Rubino: Well, we’re talking about money here. There is a survey of general counsel compensation. I guess it’s not just general counsel, it’s general counsel or lead legal personnel, and it’s, you know, an imperfect measurements since it’s only the things that were publicly reported. So, it’s not every company. But it was kind of interesting, especially when we’re talking and comparing it to Biglaw, which is awash in bonus money and you know, kind of throwing it around to keep folks engaged, and the in-house side things were less great.

Joe Patrice: Okay.

Kathryn Rubino: Yeah, the median bonus is actually down some 27% over last year. And I mean it makes some sense, right? As much as COVID did not impact the fortunes of Biglaw negatively, it affected a lot of people negatively. And so, there’s lots of different corporations that had less great year and bonuses are always, you know, tied to a company’s performance. So, if the company had a bad year, chances are your bonus is going to take a hit as well and that was also true for GCs this past year. There’s a new most well-compensated GC and it’s the Fox News — Fox Corporation, I suppose. It’s larger than just the news part of it and that they are currently or as of last year the most well-compensated GC.

Joe Patrice: Well, they’re facing some hefty lawsuits right now. So, I think that makes some sense.

Kathryn Rubino: Yeah. Yeah, that’s fair, that’s fair. Yeah, so that was kind of news you can use. And it is kind of interesting particularly when I think a lot of times lawyers look at the in-house life as, you know, the Promised Land, the “once I’m done with this.” Once I’m done paying off my student loans, here’s where I’ll go or, you know, this is just where I want to get to eventually, I want to have enough experience to be able to get a great in-house job and then I can, you know, maybe see my children that I’ve forgotten I have. But it is a lot more volatile in terms of money and it also seems like at the moment at least less — I mean the numbers are still ridiculously large like, you know, it’s fine, they’re fine. But they did not have as great a year as Biglaw has been having.

Joe Patrice: Yeah. But it goes back to what we were saying about the retention bonuses. I think there’s movement that’s just not happening to those sorts of areas because the firm world needs all hands on deck, especially in the corporate side, which is where a lot of general counsel come from. I mean, there are general counsel that come from the litigation side, but not as many.

Kathryn Rubino: But less frequently, yeah.

Joe Patrice: And yeah, everything’s kind of in lockdown right now because if you’re an associate, you aren’t going to take — that’s not a general counsel job and not take legal department jobs right now because you’re making too much at the firm. If you’re a partner in the corporate side, it’s hard to imagine why you would give up your partnership at this point. It’s not going to be as lucrative unless you are getting, you know, there are definitely chief legal officer jobs that include substantial business perks like manager, like an officer of the company and everything. But yeah, like I don’t see why you would necessarily be looking at those pastures right now.

Kathryn Rubino: Yeah. Well — 

Joe Patrice: Unless they come up with a lot more money. But no, things will slow down and then we’ll see things gravitate back to a mean. But right now — 

(00:24:58)

Kathryn Rubino: It is interesting that right now as good as we think things are for the legal community or legal industry generally and they are better than average and certainly better than a lot of other industries, it is kind of specific to Biglaw firms. It is not as true for in-house and smaller and you know, plaintiff sides. Places are not doing as well as the sort of mega corporations that are in the legal industry as Biglaw firms.

Joe Patrice: Apparently, Drexel is taking away Rudy Giuliani’s honorary degree right now.

Kathryn Rubino: That seems right

Joe Patrice: Yeah, it tracks.

Kathryn Rubino: That feels good.

Joe Patrice: I mean, we should — somebody wants to get a Cameo and have him explain how he feels about it. He can — 

Kathryn Rubino: It’s $375.

Joe Patrice: Yeah, it’s too much.

Kathryn Rubino: I don’t think that that’s worth. I don’t think it’s worth it.

Joe Patrice: Yeah, no. I agree. I don’t think it was worth it at $199 either, but here we are.

Kathryn Rubino: Fair. And also like I don’t want to — I mean, it might be fun for like a laugh. I mean, even you know, whatever, how expensive it is to one side, but I don’t want to contribute to his legal fees. Like, I feel like he should have to pay them. He did look a lot of questionable things, and this is the logical and natural consequence for his actions is having these legal bills. And I’m not going to help that in any way, no matter how hard I may laugh at the resulting Cameo. It’s not worth it.

Joe Patrice: Speaking New York politicians and natural and logical consequences of their actions, we got through this whole thing and Andrew Cuomo is it the governor? Well, he is the governor because he quit like he was tendering his resignation from a Wendy’s. He’s like, “Yeah, I’ll be gone in two weeks.” Yeah.

Kathryn Rubino: Yeah. It is interesting. New York will have its first woman governor, Kathy Hochul, who apparently — well, not apparently, is in fact a lawyer and spent some time working as a lawyer. Although for the life of me, I don’t know where. So, in her official bio and in every write-up I have been able to find about her, it says that she graduated from law school and worked at a DC law firm and then left to do politics after a short amount of time, but no one has told me which firm and I’m dying to know.

Joe Patrice: So, yeah. So, if anybody out there knows where Kathy Hochul worked, let everybody know.

Kathryn Rubino: Yeah. I just have questions now and I did some serious deep diving. I employed multiple friends and colleagues that are really good at finding information on the internet and everything seems to be just like, why did — there’s just no information. I sent a media inquiry to their press people.

Joe Patrice: To their office.

Kathryn Rubino: Nothing. I have no information. I don’t know where she went to practice after law school. She went to a Catholic law school. And I just want to know which law firm.

Joe Patrice: Fair enough.

Kathryn Rubino: Which law firm? So, if you know, please hit us up.

Joe Patrice: Yeah.

Kathryn Rubino: You can get at me. It’s [email protected]. Please let me know. I’ll keep you strictly confidential. I don’t know why it would be so confidential, but then it makes me wonder, what is going on there? Or is it just like some weird blip that no one has ever thought to dig into before. I’ve read maybe hundreds of articles about this woman and about her and gives her bio, oh, and the in past, she’s some blah blah blah, and they’re always just an anonymized DC law firm or maybe a big DC law firm, it’s is like the only like color you get when you do any sort of reading about it. And it makes me wonder, it makes me really wonder. So, if you know, hit me up.

Joe Patrice: So, yeah. Let’s go into our conclusion of the show which has a natural and logical connection because, you know, I’ll start by just thanking our sponsors Lexicon and Nota powered by M&T Bank, which was where Kathy Hochul was the former Vice President. Yeah, that’s a thing that you can look up.

Kathryn Rubino: We knew that, we know that, but we don’t know what law firm she worked at. Apparently, it was just a short amount of time, but I don’t know which one.

Joe Patrice: Anyway, yeah. So, thanks for listening. You should subscribe to the show. You should give it reviews, stars, write things, get it shows engagement, which helps us get seen by more people who search, “Hey, what’s a law podcast?” You should check out Above The Law, even though, you know, you don’t have to. You can just be a listener to the show, but you know, we have some fun things on there from time to time. If you want to hear our stories without necessarily hearing me hit the sound effect button. If you aren’t already, you should check out Kathryn host a show called The Jabot. I’m on the Legaltech Week Journalists’ Roundtable. You should be checking out the other shows by The Legal Talk Network and let’s see, I’m @JosephPatrice on Twitter. She’s @Kathryn1, the numeral 1 there, and I think that’s everything.

Kathryn Rubino: Peace.

Joe Patrice: Yeah, yeah. Talk to you all in two weeks.

Kathryn Rubino: I’ll host next week.

Joe Patrice: But you’ll be there next week.

Kathryn Rubino: They don’t have to skip the next episode. I’ll still be there.

Joe Patrice: Oh yeah, no. I mean, you don’t have to skip the next episode just because I’m not on it. You could.

Kathryn Rubino: You shouldn’t.

Joe Patrice: Yeah, yeah. You shouldn’t. Yeah, that’s the word I’m — yeah. No, you should definitely —

Kathryn Rubino: I hate you so much. I know.

[Music]

 

Podcast transcription by Tech-Synergy.com

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