State Bar of Texas 2024-25 President-elect Candidate Forum

Episode Notes

Transcript

Speaker 1:

Welcome to the State Bar of Texas podcast, your monthly source for conversations and curated content to improve your law practice with your host Rocky Dhir

Rocky Dhir:

Guys, we’re so excited to have you. I am Rocky Dhir. I’m an attorney in Dallas, Texas. I’m also the host of the State Bar of Texas podcast. You might’ve recognized the voice. Luckily you’ve not had to see the face for quite a while. I’m also a standup comedian, but don’t let that scare you away. We’ve got a great program here today. I’m joined by our two state bar of Texas President-Elect candidates. I’ve got Denise Scofield. I’ve got Santos Vargas. We’re going to have a great time today, guys. Now both have been out there campaigning tirelessly trying to tell you about what they want to do as President-elect if elected, and we’re going to have an opportunity here to talk to them. This forum is an opportunity for all Texas lawyers to hear what they have to say, and you’ve got a Zoom link and on that zoom link you can ask questions to the candidates.

Now, amongst other topics, we’re going to be talking to them about the practice of law, the governments of the state, north of Texas, what they plan to do as president. So please, please submit your questions and as time allows, we’re going to try to get to as many of them as possible. This forum will be one hour and we want to get through as many questions as possible. So I’m going to give the candidates each two minutes to answer questions. Two minutes. Now we’re going to start with introductions with Denise and Santos. So let’s take about a minute guys to introduce yourselves. Denise, let’s start with you ladies first.

Denise Scofield:

Absolutely. Thank you all so much for tuning in today and listening to us talk about the issues and what we see as the important challenges ahead of our great profession and state bar of Texas. I want to tell you a little bit about myself. I grew up in the Midwest and in 1978 my family moved to Plano, Texas where I went to middle school and high school. I became an avid high school debater, spent most Saturday afternoons talking about thermonuclear war, and that eventually led to me going to Vanderbilt where I was on the debate team and where I met my husband. The very first day of undergraduate John Schofield. After Vanderbilt, we went to SMU Law School together and frankly, I thought I was going to be a dallasite for my career, but John intervened and proposed and said, will you marry me? But we have to live in Houston all in the same breath.

So 35 years later, I’m a happy Houstonian, but I also practice out of my firm’s Dallas office for a week every month, which has been tremendously terrific for me. I have three children, they’re all adults and I’m happily employed. My daughter Ellen, is 29 and works at Southwest Airlines and Flight Operations. My daughter, Mary Caroline, is 25 and works at Freeze as an investment banker and Jack is 23 and has just started at Goldman Sachs doing energy investment banking as well. My practice is one that me to courts all across the state. I do energy Litigation work, which means if there’s a pump jack or a rig, you can generally see me someplace nearby. And it’s been a wonderful way to practice in the state of Texas because I’ve got relationships all across the state as a result of my practice taking me there. My husband John, has a plaintiff’s practice and he does catastrophic injury and consumer class action work. And so it’s been really important for me to be able to have his perspective as well on the issues that Texas lawyers face and I really appreciate the opportunity to be here today and thank you again.

Rocky Dhir:

Thank you Denise. And obviously she’s got three adult kids and she looks like this. So lesson learned, lawyers don’t crack. Okay, that’s how it is. Santos, let’s hear about you. Tell us about yourself.

Santos Vargas:

Thank you so much Rocky, and thank you for the fantastic job that you do on this forum every year. It’s so incredibly important for members of theBar to find out about the candidates and learn what their positions are and different platform issues and just kind of get to know the candidates a little better. So thank you so much for taking the time to join us today. Lemme start off by telling you a little bit about me. My name’s Santos Vargas. I’m married to one of the most amazing and beautiful women. Her name is Patty Vargas and she’s also a lawyer. Patty is board certified in estate planning and probate. She also happens to be the president-elect of the San Antonio Bar Association. She’s absolutely wonderful. I love her very, very much. Patty and I met when we were both very young lawyers. In fact, we met whenever we were both members of a young professionals organization and I couldn’t for the life of me figure it out, why it is that Patty kept on showing up to all of my committee meetings and I thought for sure she was way too nice and way too good to still be available.

Finally, I was smart enough to ask her out on a date, she said yes. And a year later we were married. Patty and I share three smart, amazing and beautiful children. Laura is our oldest and she’s just the sweetest, kindest and most caring. Big sister Santos is our son. Santos has never found a sport that he doesn’t think that he’s absolutely the best at, and he actually just absolutely loves playing sports. And then Lucia is our youngest and she is just a spitfire. She has the most infectious personality and she just keeps us on her toes and always makes us laugh. I have a statewide fiduciary and business Litigation practice. I’ve been with my current firm since 2011 and in that time we’ve managed to grow our firm from three lawyers to 16 lawyers. We handle some pretty high stakes Litigation all across the state of Texas.

But before that I also worked at a big firm and then after working at a big firm, I also worked at a Solo practice and had a Solo practice for several years. So I know what it’s like to be both at a big firm, a mid-size firm like the one I’m currently at, but also running a Solo practice. And so I think that’s really important for members of theBar to know that I share lots of different perspectives on different areas of practice in theBar. I want to thank you so much for allowing us to come and speak to you today and very much look forward to answering the questions. Thank you so much.

Rocky Dhir:

Thank you, Santos. Thank you both. Remember, we want to hear from you. The candidates want to answer your questions, so don’t forget, use that zoom link, ask the questions and we’re going to get to as many of them as we possibly can. But first, let’s talk about the role of a state bar president and the leadership qualities that are necessary to make this job successful. So Santos, let’s start with you. Talk to us about what you think the role of a state bar president is and what leadership qualities you’d bring to the job elected.

Santos Vargas:

Thank you, Rocky. The stated role of a state bar president is to be the voice and the face of theBar, but one of the most important roles of state bar president is also being the ears of theBar, and I think that’s so incredibly important and I’ve taken the opportunity during the last six months of my campaign to go out there and really be the ears of Texas lawyers and go out there and listen. I can tell you that I have been to cities all the way from the panhandle down to the valley, all the way from El Paso down to East Texas and everywhere in between and everywhere that I’ve gone, I’ve listened to lawyers. I haven’t just made campaign stops and appearances, but I’ve gotten out, I’ve spoken to lawyers and really tried to ascertain what the issues are that are important to them.

And I can tell you that by doing that, by listening to Texas lawyers across the state of Texas, I’ve gotten so many ideas from my campaign and I’ve gone back and I’ve implemented those ideas and those ideas have now become very substantial planks in my platform. So one of the most important leadership qualities that any state bar president can have is something that I’ve demonstrated throughout the course of my campaign, and that’s listening to Texas lawyers. That’s something that I promised to do at the very outset of my campaign. It’s something that I’ve done throughout the course of my campaign. I haven’t just stuck within the I 35 I 40 and I 10 corridor. I’ve gotten out into all of the small towns and I’ve met those lawyers, I’ve listened to them. I found out what’s truly important to lawyers all over the state of Texas, not just in the big cities. Those cities are important too, but the small cities are also important. And so listening to Texas lawyers is one of the most important traits that any state bar president can have, and that’s something that I can intend to continue doing during the course of my presidency as a state bar of Texas.

Rocky Dhir:

Right, and tell us about what you think the role of a state bar president is. What leadership qualities you would bring to the job.

Denise Scofield:

Absolutely. Like Santos, I too have traveled throughout the state. I started in Amarillo, I’ve crisscrossed Tyler, Waco Brownsville, and it has been a real pleasure to get to hear what Texas lawyers think about the issues that are facing our profession. Listening is an important skill, but the ability to act on what we hear from Texas lawyers is really critical to be able to synthesize and take what Texas lawyers are telling us and develop action plans that will address their concerns. And I think that’s where my real value comes here. I’ve done it in the past in every other organization where I’ve been a leader, I’ve done it in my own firm through leadership roles and have really leadership tested credentials that will allow me to not only listen, but also then to take the action that we need to save our profession from any of the challenges that face us.

Rocky Dhir:

Actually walk right into the next question. This is a two-part question. What would you say is the number one role of the state bar of Texas and what do you intend to do about theBar tree epidemic? Bar Tree is now the norm in personal injury and we have no oversight. So let’s hear your thoughts on this first.

Denise Scofield:

I think that the number one role of the state bar of Texas is to make sure that as we are regulating Texas lawyers, that we are listening to their voices and that we are making sure that everyone has a voice to be heard and then we develop as a consensus the regulations that govern us and we choose the leaders who we want to govern us as far as what we do on a day-to-Day basis. We have a mission statement at the state bar and the mission statement is very clear. It includes making sure that the profession is in good standing, that lawyers are abiding by their duties to the public. We have access to justice kinds of requirements in our mission statement and to be true to our mission statement, we need to make sure that those are the things that we keep in mind in terms of arbitrary and personal injury.

Litigation certainly I think those are issues for our disciplinary rules committee to take into account, and that committee is phenomenal. If you have a suggestion, if there is a need, if there is a topic that you want addressed by our disciplinary rules, that’s our avenue to go there and to make sure that that is being addressed As far as lawyers are concerned now in terms of non-lawyers, those are issues that we need really seriously to be working with our state legislature on and to be getting the word out to the public that working with folks in that nature is not something that is advisable and certainly is not something that is regulated and those folks are not regulated by our bar Association.

Rocky Dhir:

Santos, your turn. I’m going to repeat the questions for you since it’s a two-parter. What would you say is the number one role of the State bar of Texas and what do you intend to do about theBar tree epidemic, especially in personal injury where there’s no oversight?

Santos Vargas:

I think the number one role of the state bar of Texas is to regulate the legal profession and do it in a way that provides support to Texas lawyers, but also provides support to members of the public. Barit tree is something that I’m very familiar with, I’ve dealt with it on cases that I’ve been involved with. I can tell you that I’m very familiar with both the rules, the disciplinary rules, but also the laws and the legislation on this issue. It’s a really important issue to deal with. It’s something that affects personal injury lawyers in a very big way. There are those that do it the right way and then there are those that do it the wrong way. Barit Tree has become an epidemic all over the state of Texas. It’s something that I’ve seen down in the Rio Grande Valley. It’s something that I’ve seen in West Texas but also in East Texas and south Texas.

And so it’s something that we really need to do something about. I can tell you that I’ve spoken to trial lawyers all over the state. It’s a concern that repeatedly comes up because you have some lawyers that are going through the advertising committee and they’re spending the dollars to Gogo out and advertise, and then you have other lawyers that are paying case runners. Case runners are a serious problem. Case runners are a problem that we need to deal with. The way that we do that is by discouraging lawyers from being able to hire case runners. And the way that you do that is by stiffening the penalties for lawyers that engage in Barre. It’s that simple. If you make it painful enough for those lawyers that go out and engage in Barr Tree, they won’t do it. The penalties aren’t severe enough right now and it’s something that we need to do something about to protect our trial lawyers that do it the right way.

Rocky Dhir:

And a reminder folks, there is also a vote coming up on some new rules governing the State Park of Texas, so don’t forget to check those out and to engage in that process as well. So Santos, I’m going to turn this one to you first. Sure. Many members of the state bar of Texas live and practice outside of Texas. How do you plan to engage them in the work and activities of the State Bar of Texas?

Santos Vargas:

I think that you’re right. We have thousands of lawyers that are licensed in the state of Texas that practice outside of the state of Texas, and I plan to engage them in the same way that I’ve engaged those lawyers throughout the course of my campaign. And that’s personal outreach. The way that I’ve run my campaign is that I’ve done my best to go out and not just go out and meet lawyers in person, but for those lawyers that I can’t meet in person, those lawyers that aren’t living in the state of Texas, I’ve reached out to those lawyers in a way that no other campaign, no other president elect campaign candidate has ever done. And the way that I’ve done that is I’ve put out videos, putting out information on my campaign, those videos, those 75 videos that I put out detailing my positions on everything from grievances to retention tools for women lawyers and lawyers of color to mentorship opportunities for young lawyers.

Those videos have fit not just lawyers living in the state of Texas. Those videos have gone out and been distributed to lawyers living outside of the state of Texas. And that’s been so incredibly important for my campaign. I think we need to continue doing that. If I’m fortunate enough to be elected, one of the things that I plan to continue doing is not just sending it out emails, but sending out videos, having that personal touch, letting people hear my voice, see my face and get to know what it is that the state bar is all about and what the state bar is doing for them. Because one of the things that I hear all too often is I travel the state and I hear from lawyers that live outside of the state is that they sometimes feel like their voice is not being heard. And so I’ve been able to get my message out there in a way that no other candidate for president-elect ever has. Those videos that I’ve put out have gotten more than 200,000 views during the course of my campaign. And so I’ve done something truly revolutionary during the course of my campaign and I intend to continue to reaching out to out-of-State lawyers in the same way that I’ve done during the course of my campaign after I’m elected President-elect if I’m fortunate enough to be elected President-elect.

Rocky Dhir:

Alright. And Denise, now we’re going to toss this one over to you. How do you plan to engage with the members of the State bar of Texas who live outside of Texas? How do we get them involved in the activities of the state bar?

Denise Scofield:

Well, frankly, the key word in that question is engagement. I’m a little bit less interested in talking at and to folks. I’d rather talk with folks and have that discussion, that dialogue. I think that we are in a really revolutionary time period in our profession because of the advances in technology and because we can do so many things remotely by Zoom like we are doing today. There are lots of opportunities to involve folks who are outside of our state in committee work in section work as CLE speakers and in social activities, networking activities that are set up on a remote kind of electronic forum. So that’s really what my interest is, is making sure that we give those opportunities to folks who are outside of our state to interact with us, to be part of our community and to engage with them in a really positive, productive way.

Rocky Dhir:

And you two are giving these guys a lot of things to think about because these questions keep coming in. Alright, so Denise, we’re going to start with you first. What is your plan to support young female lawyers in Texas? You might have some thoughts on this.

Denise Scofield:

I do. I want to tell you first and foremost that I appreciate the question and I feel like the experience that I’ve had is something that can be really meaningful to other young women who are entering our profession. The kinds of resources that are available to young female lawyers now. It’s just tremendous. I spent this past Friday at a Travis County Women Lawyers event that was run in conjunction with about six other organizations including the Center for Women in Law, the best substantive programming and networking opportunities I’ve ever seen over the 31 years that I’ve done this. I think that what we really need to do for our young female lawyers is first all have women in leadership positions, things that they can aspire for. If you see it, you can be it. So that would be first and foremost. Second, continuing to offer high value substantive programming on the kinds of issues that women lawyers face in addition to networking and business development opportunities depending on the type of practice one has, those are the real two keys to being successful just across the board. And so I would look for opportunities for the state bar to have original content, but also to make sure that we are partnering with the appropriate groups that already have shown that they have really good valuable resources available to us so that we don’t reinvent the wheel. But I’ll tell you all that over the 31 years that I’ve practiced, things have gotten immeasurably better for women lawyers and I am really heartened by the progress that I’ve seen over my career and am very grateful to have seen it.

Rocky Dhir:

Santos, I want to turn this one over to you. And you actually mentioned women lawyers and lawyers of color in your last response, so I’m sure you have thoughts on this as well. What is your plan to support young female lawyers in Texas if elected

Santos Vargas:

Rocky? It hasn’t just been in my last response. This is an issue that I’ve been vocal about since day one of my campaign and it’s something that comes from a very personal place for me. And the reason I tell that, or I say that Rocky is that very recently my oldest daughter, Laura Vargas, approached my wife and I told us that she wanted to be a lawyer. And whenever she told us that she wanted to be a lawyer, I thought back to whenever my wife, Patty Vargas was a very young lawyer and whenever she was expecting with our daughter Laura Vargas. And I remember being so incredibly happy whenever we found out that we were expecting. And the very next day she went to work and she came home from work and I’m still bouncing off the walls because I’m so incredibly happy. And I ask her, Hey, did you tell everybody at work?

I’ll never forget the look on her face whenever I asked her that question, it was a look of just sheer anxiety that’s forever sead in my mind. And she turned to me and she said, no, I’m scared. I don’t know what they’ll say. And it ended up taking her weeks and weeks before she told people at work that we were expecting. And so one of the things that I’ve made it my mission to do during the course of my campaign and if I’m elected President-elect to make sure that my daughter and other young women across the state of Texas don’t have to deal with that issue in the same way that my wife did. And so retention plans for both women lawyers and lawyers of color has been something that’s been part of my campaign and one of my platforms that’s both in my brochure and in my website since day one because it’s very personal to me.

And so one of the things that I plan to do is to partner with women leaders, women bar associations and law firms across the state to create retention tools to make sure that the disconnect that currently exists between the hiring of women at law firms and women making partner and then equity partner at law firm, that that gap is narrowed. Because right now the struggle is not over. That gap is still way too wide and there’s much more work to be done on that front. And so one of the things that I plan to do is to create retention guides. I can tell you that TYLA has already taken a good start. I plan to partner with TYLA to expand the retention guide that they’ve already created and then make that tool, make that resources, make that resource available to law firms across the state. Some of the larger firms have very robust plans, but you get to some of the mid-size firms and the small firms, they don’t have those same plans. And there’s so much work to be done for women on that front. That’s something that I will make a number one priority if I’m elected President-elect

Denise Scofield:

And Rocky, if I could just add for a minute, one way that would be real helpful in that regard is to look at what the Houston Bar Association has done. 20 years ago I was one of the three co-founders of the Gender Fairness Task force for the Houston Bar Association, one of the largest local bar associations in the entire country. Those kinds of toolkits exist there and it is very robust programming and that’s what I was referring to when I said that I would partner with organizations that have already done a lot of this work in order to take them statewide.

Rocky Dhir:

Interesting. Okay. Well guys, listen, I’m going to tell you both, you’re both doing a fantastic job raising a lot of issues. We just got a stack of questions. So here’s the deal. I’m going to ask both of you all to make, we’re going to keep our answers as brief as possible so we can get through these because I know we’ve got questions and there’s going to be more coming. I can already see ’em. So we’re going to try to get through these as fast as we can. So Santos, I’m going to take this next one and start with you. Sure. And he’s agreed to let his identity be known. So I’m going to give a shout out to my good friend Patrick McLean out in Dallas. Maureen, thank you for your service, pat. Alright, what is your position, guys on the state bar issuing statements or positions on legislation or policy outside of the regulation of the legal profession?

Santos Vargas:

Well, regardless of what our personal position is, this is something that’s already been ruled on by the courts. And so there’s precedent on this issue that currently exists. It’s an issue that the state bar takes very seriously. It’s an issue that the executive leadership and all of the employees and staff at the state bar have worked tirelessly over the last several years to address and make sure that we’re making those statements in the right way and that making sure that those statements and those positions are germane to the practice of law, to the improvement of the quality of legal services and making sure that we don’t run afoul of those things. And so my position is that the state bar is doing the right thing. Currently the state bar is working tirelessly and I applaud the state bar for all of the efforts that they’ve taken in that regard.

Rocky Dhir:

Okay. Denise, your turn. Do you want me to repeat the question

Denise Scofield:

For you? I don’t. Santos is spot on This one. The state bar is obligated to follow case law and stay within what we are allowed to do. The guide rails, which means not taking positions on issues such as suggested by the question. And we need to make sure that everything that we do, all of our communications are germane to the practice of law. And that’s something that our state bar staff has just done yeoman’s work on. It is hard work and it is constant continuous work, but they are out there doing it. And so while some may want theBar to take position statements, the fact of the matter is we simply can’t.

Rocky Dhir:

Okay, fair enough. Now you’re going to take lead on this next one. How will you as State Bar of Texas president support Solo practice and small law firm owners?

Denise Scofield:

It’s a great question. It’s one I’ve given a lot of thought about having seen my husband’s practice. He’s got four lawyers in his law firm and I can see the challenges that he has. I also practiced in a small firm with fewer than 25 lawyers for a period of time as well. So it’s something that I’ve got a real sense of attention to because I’ve seen it firsthand. We have excellent law practice management tools at the state bar. If you go to the website, you’ll find an entire page of different resources that are available. We need to double down and make sure that all of those are high quality, informative materials that can be used by solos and small firm lawyers in order to make the administration of their law offices easier and less expensive. We also need to use our buying power on the member benefits side with over 115,000 members. We have clout and we are in a position to be able to negotiate appropriate discounts for folks who are in slow, low and small firm environments so that they can take advantage of that buying power. And that’s something I would really focus on as your bar president is to make sure, one, you’ve got law practice management materials and two, you’ve got appropriate discounts out there. CLE is another idea where I think we again need to make sure that we are focusing on the kinds of issues that would really face Solo and small for practitioners

Rocky Dhir:

Very well. Santos, this one’s over to you. Solos and small firms.

Santos Vargas:

I think it’s a great question. A huge chunk of our bar are Solo practitioners and as I’ve spoken to Solo practitioners throughout the course of this campaign, I can tell you a lot of times they believe that their voice is not being heard. A lot of times they believe that they’re just not getting the support from the state bar that they need. I can tell you that having run a Solo practice for several years, and I have that, I’ve experienced both the highs and the lows that come around with operating a Solo practice. As a Solo practitioner, oftentimes you’re your own staff, you’re making your own copies, you’re answering telephone calls, you’re sending out your own letters, your own mail room. And so there’s so much that can be done to support Solo practitioners. I understand those issues because I’ve lived them. I can tell you that the state bar does have some great resources to support Solo practitioners.

CLE is one. In fact, the state bar has CLE scholarships that it offers for people that have a hard time maybe affording CLE. I think that’s a program that can and that should be expanded to help a lot of Solo practitioners, especially during difficult economic times. Another one is the expansion of other member benefits such as, for example, we have discounts for members on office supplies. We have discounts on issues affecting the practice of law and management of Ello practice. And the problem that we’ve had for many, many years is that so many of those benefits are buried several layers deep within the state bar website. And the state bar website is one of the most visited sites in the state of Texas. I go to the state bar website several times a week. But one of the things that we can do to help Solo practitioners is to make awareness of those benefits that are available a lot more prominent.

Let’s revamp the website so that people can see those benefits on the front page of the website so that people are aware. I can tell you that when I was a state bar director, I went out and spoke to solos, I spoke to bar associations about all of the member benefits the state bar had available. And so many times when I was providing those presentations, members were just amazed at the level of benefits that the state bar provided. But unless we get the word out, unless we make them more visible on the website, so many Solo practitioners just won’t be aware that those member benefits are available. And so that’s definitely one thing that I would like to make a priority. Let’s revamp the state bar website and let’s make those things available so they’re not buried so deep so that people know that they exist.

Rocky Dhir:

Now before we continue our conversation, let’s take a moment and hear a word from our sponsors. And we’re back. We’ve talked a bit about women lawyers, we’ve talked about Solo practitioners. This question has to do with junior attorneys. Let’s listen up to this one. What experience do you have with helping junior attorneys find a balance so they’re able to stay in and serve the profession? So Santos, you get to take the first shot at this one and then Denise, we’re going to be heading over to you.

Santos Vargas:

I have quite a bit of experience on this front. I have mentored junior attorneys or young lawyers, is probably the more modern way to say it, but I’ve mentored young lawyers throughout the course of my practice. I can tell you that I’ve had so many young lawyers come through even my practice, and we always have taken the time to provide the guidance and to provide the tools and just the kind of one-on-one interaction to make sure that they’re both getting the right experience to be able to develop their practices, to be able to hone their skills, but also the type of personal touch to make that they’re not overwhelmed by the practice. And I can tell you that for the last several months, mentorship of young lawyers and specifically the creation of online mentoring groups is something that’s been central to my campaign. I’ve put out videos on it, I’ve put out emails on it.

I’ve spoken to young lawyers about this issue and one of the things that I think so many young lawyers across the state would benefit from is online mentoring groups where seasoned lawyers can be paired up with young lawyers and those seasoned lawyers can provide the type of training, the type of tools, the type of guidance to help those young lawyers succeed. If we expect young lawyers to take us into the future, to be the next generation, to lead the practice of law, we need to give them the tools and the resources and the training and the love to be able to make that happen. That’s something that I’ve done throughout the course of my practice, something that I intend to do in the future through the creation of online mentoring for young lawyers,

Rocky Dhir:

Denise Junior Lawyers, and helping them find a balance so they’re able to stay in and continue serving as lawyers. What are your thoughts?

Denise Scofield:

I have to tell you, I’m at a really wonderful stage in my career where I spent a lot of time working with young lawyers both inside my firm and outside my firm, and it is one of my very favorite things to do. One of the most meaningful recognitions I’ve ever had in my entire career was by the Texas lawyer with their best mentor award about a year ago. Most of those awards are put together by marketing departments of law firms and they go to the publications and it’s all fancy and put together and there’s a bow tied around it. I won that award because my team nominated me. They went to the Texas lawyer, they provided the submission, they wrote the recommendations because of the time and effort that I’ve spent working with them to make sure that they have an entire range of experience.

And I want that for every young Texas lawyer. And I think there are some really great ways to do it. First and foremost, I won’t step on TLAs tos. We have a phenomenal young lawyers Association in the Texas Young lawyers Association and I want to make sure that they have the full force of the state bar of Texas behind them. So they are providing the mentorship, the networking, and the CLE opportunities, especially geared towards young lawyers. And I also want to make sure we’re encouraging our young lawyers to belong to the Young Lawyers Affiliates. In my own experience, the way that I became a bar leader and I think better Lawyer is because I started at the Houstonian Lawyers Association, I saw out community. And by seeking out community you learn and you also make relationships and those relationships are what help you over the course of your entire career. So I think I bring a lot to the table on this issue and it’s one of the ways where I would most like to contribute to Texas Lawyers.

Rocky Dhir:

Santos, we’re going to take this over to you. So many state bar presidents have had a primary overarching initiative that has kind of helped define their presidency. Alan dubois wanted to increase TA funding. That was a big project. Frank Stevenson establishing Togi. We remember that Laura Gibson was really, really hammering this issue of succession planning. Such a serious and important issue for all of us. So Denise, let’s start with you. What would be your primary single initiative if elected state bar president?

Denise Scofield:

Well, first and foremost, I guess I want to let everyone know that I don’t think that you do an affinity project just for the sake of doing an affinity project, and theBar does a lot really well already. I am not looking to tax our state bar staff with additional projects that while well-intentioned may not necessarily feel a real need that we have at the state bar. To that end, I think one place where we really could and where I want to focus is on mental health and wellness and with regard to mental health and wellness, I’m not talking about reinventing the wheel again and I wanted to make clear that that is a theme throughout my campaign is let’s not reinvent the wheel, but instead let’s double down and do what we do well, where we do it on mental health and addiction issues. We really need to be looking at after someone has a problem dealing with it, both the treatment as well as the recovery support On the treatment side, I can tell you that I have firsthand experience with the fact that it takes a long time to be able to get help once someone is recognizing that they need it.

And it also takes a lot of money. I would really like for us to take our time and our effort as bar members to look at the TA resources to make sure that we have a wealth of different facilities that are geared towards and understand what our profession needs in terms of treatment options and opportunities with a list ready to go that has short wait times where we can get folks in. And then I also want to turn our attention to the Sharon Crowley Trust. Make sure it is absolutely amply funded so that lawyers who have a need for treatment can actually get it and that money is not an impediment

Rocky Dhir:

Very well. Denise and Santos, what would be your single primary initiative as president?

Santos Vargas:

It’s similar. It’s similar, but it’s also different. And the issue that I’ve been focused on, the issue that I’ve spoken to thousands of lawyers across the state of Texas on is the issue of lawyer burnout. It’s a significant problem for the entire practice. I think it’s a mistake to wait until lawyers are already burned out to start addressing the issue as we’re really just particularly susceptible to burnout because of the secondary trauma that we often carry around from dealing with our client’s problems. I can tell you that so many lawyers are thinking about those problems whenever they’re putting their kids to bed at night, whenever they’re laying in bed at night trying to go to sleep. Not just that maybe when they’re on spring break on vacation, those problems are always with us. And so you stack on top of the secondary trauma, the expectation from judges, from clients, from partners, from colleagues to always be perfect, add on top of that the incredibly long hours that aren’t oftentimes mentally, emotionally are physically sustainable.

And the result is that 77% of lawyers report dealing with burnout issues. Another 46% report having felt depression at some point in their career, another 61% report having feelings of anxiety, 10% report having contemplated suicide 1%, having contemplated suicide is too many. So there’s a lot more that we can do on the front end before lawyers are already dealing with burnout to help them deal with that. Again, not reinventing the will, but something that we can do to augment something that TA already does is creating support groups across the state to help lawyers talk through these issues with other lawyers. T TLA and lawyers concerned for lawyers have set up support groups across the state on other mental health issues. It’s something that we can augment to help lawyers deal with lawyer burnout, something that I’ve been committed to for a very long time, something that I’m very passionate about because we need to help lawyers get a handle on this on the front end, not when they’re already burned out. And if we do that, I think lawyers will do so much better job effectively representing their clients because they’re not burned out. And that’s something that I really hope to accomplish if I’m elected State bar president-elect.

Rocky Dhir:

Well, thank you Santos. I’m just relieved that neither one of them said that their single primary issue would be to get rid of the current host of the state Bar Texas podcast because this next question is a little bit long, and so if you’re the lawyer that submitted this, I’m going to beg your indulgence, I’m going to shorten it up just a little bit, but you’ve both made great points about retaining young attorneys and helping young attorneys through their careers. Could you share your thoughts on recruitment, specifically outreaching to high school students, college students who might be interested in pursuing a legal career? So Santos, we’ll start with you. How do you think that we as a state bar can do a better job of outreaching to high school and college students?

Santos Vargas:

I think one huge way that we can do that is by creating pipeline programs. There are so many high schools across the state of Texas that have taken that approach. The state bar can do so much more to support those schools. There’s one in San Antonio where I’m from that’s been instrumental in pushing especially a lot of lower income inner city kids towards a future in the legal profession. And that’s something that’s always been very inspiring to me. I think that, and having spoken to teachers at those schools, there’s a need, an absolute need for more resources for those students, more resources for those schools. And so helping bolster programs that are already out there, helping kids push them into the legal profession and helping inspiring them to think that they actually can make it into the legal profession is one of the most important things that we can do.

I know that as a young child myself, being a lawyer was oftentimes seems so incredibly out of reach and it was other lawyers, other lawyers that inspired me to be able to think that I actually had a chance to do this. And so that’s what it takes. It takes that personal touch, it takes mentorship and it takes those types of pipeline programs that are already in existence and additional support for additional pipeline programs. I think if we do that, if the state bar provides those resources, we can see so many young people that are interested in pursuing a career in law. And that’s something that I’m very much committed to

Rocky Dhir:

Denise.

Denise Scofield:

Many of our local bar associations have phenomenal pipeline programs that we as the state bar need to partner with and support those programs. There are some other opportunities that we have as lawyers also. One cause that I am committed to because of my own experience is speech and debate. We know that folks who participate in speech and debate activities have a proclivity to want to be lawyers. So outreach in urban and rural areas to kids who might not otherwise have the opportunity to be part of debate programs is one way that we can focus on bringing up a new generation of lawyers who have the analytical skills, the interest and the curiosity to do what we do as lawyers. So I would focus on that as one particular population that we could be focusing on. In addition, I think our local bar associations do a really great job of having a number of different outreach programs, constitution day readings, law day readings, and putting together an umbrella over those kinds of activities where we could have kind of a checklist. If you’re in the Houston area and you want to be able to be in an elementary school, what program is available to you? Bringing that kind of a resource to our local Texas lawyers would be very, very helpful. But I’m a firm supporter of the pipeline program and making sure that we get into elementary school, middle school, high school and colleges.

Rocky Dhir:

I know nobody asked me, but if it was up to me, I would just lie to ’em and tell ’em, if you become a lawyer you’ll never have to do math again. It’s not true, but they don’t know that until it’s too late. Alright, so Denise, we’re going to lob this next question over to you and then over to Santos. So what can the State Bar of Texas do better to promote adequate legal representation for veterans and current members of the Armed Forces? Excellent question, Denise.

Denise Scofield:

Well, I want to start by telling you that I’m glad there was an access to justice question. I think that that is really the primary issue that is facing us in Texas today. Access to justice. The gap between those who can’t afford a lawyer and cannot is tremendous and it puts us in real trouble across the Board of society. The kinds of programs that we have in place in Texas are superb. The Texas Access to Justice Foundation are our three legal aid providers that are federally funded as well as an entire umbrella of other local kinds of pro bono organizations and legal aid organizations come together to try to fill the need back. Many, many years ago, Jim Sales from Houston started an initiative with Terry Tottenham that was aimed specifically at Texas Veterans. It is relatively easy to get a Texas lawyer to take on a case where you can help a Texas vet. We’ve got to do a better job of advertising that those opportunities are out there, that the need is there, and then giving folks the tools to be able to help veterans in those situations. We also need to, and we can do this in April, come together and support the Texas Access to Justice Commission and their gala that is completely and totally aimed only towards veterans support. And so by coming to and financially supporting that gala, you are then helping lawyers who can take on veterans issues.

Rocky Dhir:

Santos, how about you? Veterans and current members of the Armed Forces?

Santos Vargas:

So there are multiple ways that we can help veterans access to justice. I can tell you that we do have an outstanding program, Texas Lawyers for Texas Veterans, Denise referenced it just a minute ago. That program is great, but there are also programs at both local bar associations all over the state of Texas that are designed to help veterans. I know that we have them in San Antonio with the San Antonio Legal Services Association. That’s an organization that’s very near and Dhir to my heart. Whenever I was president of the San Antonio Bar Association, I set the wheels in motion for the creation of the San Antonio Legal Services Association, now known as salsa and so they do great work with Texas veterans. But here’s the common refrain that I hear when I speak to legal aid organizations all across the state. It’s funding and then there’s getting volunteers to actually show up and take cases.

Funding is a constant issue because you need the funds and able to be able to hire full-time staff to be able to work these cases. But the flip side of that is that so many legal aid organizations that I’ve spoken to tell me that they have a real problem having people show up, especially in a post covid environment where so many people are working remotely, law firms are having a difficult time having lawyers show up to work at the office. And so you can imagine that legal aid organizations across the state are just desperate for volunteers to be able to show up and help take some of these cases. So let’s do a lot more to provide incentives for legal aid organizations and for volunteers to be able to come in and take those cases. One way that we could potentially do that is by providing CLE credit additional CLE credit for people that are volunteering for pro bono hours. That’s an innovative way that I think could draw a lot more people out of their homes and to volunteer for legal aid. Another way to do it is to provide more volunteer opportunities that are remote volunteer opportunities because so many people are working remotely, and so if we make it easier for them to volunteer remotely, I think that’s one way that we can increase participation in providing access to justice for Texas veterans.

Rocky Dhir:

This next question actually is just a natural extension of what we’ve just been talking about, which is access to justice. So Santos, we’re going to start with you. What have you Santos done to help with access to justice issues in Texas?

Santos Vargas:

That’s a great question. That’s something that I touched on just a minute ago. Whenever I was the president of the San Antonio Bar Association, we had what was then known as our community justice program. The community justice program was governed by the same board that governed the San Antonio Bar Foundation and the San Antonio Bar Association. Whenever I was president of the San Antonio Bar Association, I set the wheels in motion for the creation of salsa, the San Antonio Legal Services Association. So I’m very intimately familiar with those efforts and ever since Salsa’s Board was created, able to bring onto the board not just lawyers but business leaders throughout the community to increase funding for legal aid in San Antonio. And since SALSA was created, some of the outreach on access to justice they performed has just been incredible. They put together a task force to respond to the tragedy that happened in Valdi, not just that whenever Covid hit, they were able to put together Covid Wills clinics to help people get wills that might be suffering or may be exposed to Covid. And so my access to justice roots run deep. My wife Patty was in charge of the Wills clinic for the community justice program in San Antonio for several years. We both volunteered for community justice efforts and access to justice efforts throughout that entire time, and so it’s something that I’ve been involved with. The creation of salsa in San Antonio is one of my most proudest achievements.

Rocky Dhir:

Denise, how about you? What have you done to prepare yourself for access to justice issues here in Texas?

Denise Scofield:

I took my first pro bono case as a three month lawyer. It was a family law case and it involved a father of two young children with an ex-wife who was putting the children in grave danger. I knew nothing about family law. I had a mentor through the Houston Volunteer Lawyers Program who walked me through it. A chief custody for the father took my next pro bono case. I then went on to serve on the Houston Volunteer Lawyers Board of Directors and ultimately chaired the Houston Volunteer Lawyers Program. I served with that board for well over a dozen years. At that point, I became involved with the Houston Bar Foundation and was the chairman of that particular organization, which sole purpose at the time was to raise funds for pro bono representation through the Houston Volunteer Lawyers Program. Subsequently, I was appointed to be on the Texas Access to Justice Foundation Board of Directors where I’m serving my third term.

We are the state’s funding organization for pro bono organizations and legal aid organizations throughout the state. I also served a term as a director of Lone Star Legal Aid in Texas. We have three different LSCs legal service corporations that are our main legal aid funder, our main legal aid providers in the state. Lone Star is one of them. The Texas Access to Justice Foundation provides funding to all three of them. So through that experience, I have a wealth of knowledge and information about, first of all the problem, the extent of the need and the gap and the particular areas in which the need is the most severe, including the types of cases in addition to the geographies where folks need help the most and have worked on projects to close that gap literally for my entire career. Most recently taking a statewide effort to work on kiosk to provide remote access to courts for the underserved and indigent Texans, which has been just a tremendous program.

And finally, I stayed abreast of the issues on Access to Justice by attending every single one of the Texas Access to Justice Commissions working group on Access to Justice that has been recently working on a couple of issues. First of all, the Supreme Court has asked the working group to look at issues such as non-lawyer ownership of law firms and the licensure of paraprofessionals. I have a very strong understanding of the issues involved with both of those proposals and have made sure that I have been there and listened to all sides of the topic to make sure that as your state bar president, I’m ready to lead on these issues.

Rocky Dhir:

For this next question, what do you think can be done to address the reduction of lawyers practicing in rural areas? And we’ve got about seven and a half minutes left and I want to make sure we have room for at least one question after this. So we’re going to try to keep this one as tight as we can. But Denise, what would you do to address the reduction of lawyers practicing in rural areas?

Denise Scofield:

So I think we need to have a recruitment effort and make sure that we’ve got folks boots on the ground who can show lawyers that practicing in a rural community can be a fruitful, profitable, and satisfying experience. I know that when I’m ready to hang it up and leave Houston and Dallas, I’m going to go and I’m going to practice in Texas and that’s where my husband has a family farm that’s been in his family for over a hundred years, and I can think of no better way to kind of spend of career than in a place where there may be fewer lawyers than in the big cities. So we got to make it attractive to folks and by making it attractive, you got to have people who are there who can sing the merits of why you want to be there and the help.

The other thing we need to do is continue the fact that we can have remote access. If you practice in a rural area and think about the expanse of West Texas with legal aid, I’ve done a lot of work looking at the services that are offered in West Texas through Alpine Marfa, those areas. It has been revolutionary for folks in that part of the state in all rural parts of the state to be able to practice remotely and not to have to drive hundreds of miles to each court where they might have a proceeding. So that’s a way we can really encourage folks is to know that they’re not going to have to necessarily be in their car going someplace for every single hearing that they might have to be present at

Santos Vargas:

Santos. Sure. I think there are several ways that we can help address this problem. One is creating by creating pipeline programs in those rural areas to get young people that grew up in those areas intimately familiar with both the practitioners and the courts in those areas so that we encourage them not only to seek a future in law and to seek a legal education, but that we create the connections for them so that they have incentive to come back and practice in those rural areas. Because without that personal connection, oftentimes they may not have an incentive to come back. Here’s the other thing that we can do, and this is something that I’ve been promoting throughout the course of my campaign, is providing access to remote online mentorship opportunities. I think oftentimes a lot of the reason why some of the young folks may leave rural areas get a law degree and then not come back is they may be afraid that they won’t have the same type of access to mentorship opportunities as if they were to go to practice in a larger city.

If we make those mentorship opportunities available online so that a seasoned lawyer in a place like Dallas can mentor a young lawyer in a place like Abilene or a young lawyer in a place like San Angelo or Beaumont, then those lawyers will have a bigger incentive to be able to go back to the place where their family is, to the place they grew up that they know and that they love in order to practice. I think access to remote proceedings is great for out of town lawyers to be able to come in and practice in a rural area. It doesn’t solve the problem of keeping lawyers that grew up in rural areas, lawyers that want to practice in rural areas there where they can meet with people in person. So I think online mentorship and pipeline programs are two of the best ways that we can help tackle that issue. We’ve got about five minutes left, so our time is starting

Rocky Dhir:

To come to an end, and I hope this has been useful for everybody and I appreciate everybody hitting us with such amazing questions. And we’ve saved one question for the end. Now, as a reminder, voting will go from April 1st until 5:00 PM Central time. On April 30th, we’re going to be voting for state Texas. There’s going to be Tyler elections and there’s also a referendum on addenda to the rules to the state bar rules. So be sure to look out for all of that. You’re going to get paper ballots and you can also vote online. For more information, go to Texas bar.com/elections. Now as a final question, and for this one, I’m going to thump the table once we get to about the one and a half minute mark to make sure we stay on time. But the good news is we have two amazing candidates. The bad news is only one of you gets to win. So here’s the question. If elected, how will you continue to collaborate with your opponent moving forward? SA Santos will start with you got about a minute and a half.

Santos Vargas:

I think you’re absolutely right. I think that both of us are excellent candidates for President-elect of the State Bar of Texas. Denise and I have actually had conversations about this and we’ve actually discussed what happens if one person wins and the other person doesn’t win, which is inevitable that’s going to happen during the course of this election. I can tell you that I’ve built a tremendous amount of respect for my opponent. I very much would enjoy the opportunity to continue collaborating with her. And she’s an amazing lawyer. She’s a fierce advocate. She’s done a great job in this campaign, and so I think that she’d be a great, incredibly wonderful tool for the state bar of Texas. And we need to be able to make sure that whoever wins, the other person stays very much involved and that we collaborate with each other to help what’s really important. And that’s driving the mission of the State Bar of Texas and making sure that we’re doing everything as a state bar to collaborate with each other to help the lawyers of the state of Texas. And that’s something I’d absolutely be committed to. If I win as President-elect and continue work to work with my opponent, would be something that I think would be absolutely wonderful.

Rocky Dhir:

Denise, how would you continue to work with Santos if elected?

Denise Scofield:

Well, I have a cell phone number, so it’s pretty easy to find him, and we’ve actually become friends through this process, which has been a really great experience for me. And I think a number of the programs that we want to focus on are very complimentary, and I know that the state bar is going to be in good hands regardless of who prevails. And so Santos will just have to turn off his phone if he doesn’t want to hear from me.

Rocky Dhir:

Well, very well guys. As you can see, we’ve got two tremendous candidates and you’re going to have a chance to not only hear them hear, but they’re going to be on the campaign trail continuing forward through the election. It’s going to start April 1st. It ends 5:00 PM Central Time, April 30th. You’re going to get paper ballots in the mail. You’re also going to be able to vote online should you choose to do that. So be on the lookout for it. And remember, we’re not just voting for State Bar of Texas President-Elect. That’s certainly important. We’ve also got Tyler elections and the 2024 rules referenda, so look out for those. Be sure to engage with that process candidates. Denise Santos, thank you guys for being here. This was thank you. Thank you. You guys were phenomenal, and thank you for all the amazing questions. I didn’t have to dip into my bank at all. You guys did all the work for us. So I think we’re in good hands just with these guys out there. Absolutely. Out in lawyer land, I doubt. So everybody, thank you again. My name is Rocky Dhir, we’re signing off, and here’s to another great state bar of Texas President-Elect Candidate Forum. We’ll see you next time.

Speaker 1:

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