Paralegals To The Rescue, Leading The Way In Legal Tech Integration

Episode Notes

Transcript

Tony Sipp:

And welcome back to the Paralegal Voice. My name is Tony Sipp. I’m here with Jill Francisco. Today we have our guest, Karen Tuschak. Karen brings more than 30 years of legal industry experience to the table. Her career is a narrative of pioneering and integrating the state-of-the-art technology and optimizing the role for the paralegal profession and delivering exceptional legal services. Karen, welcome to the Paralegal Voice.

Karen Tuschak:

Thank you so much for having me.

Tony Sipp:

Thank you for being here. Can you tell the audience a little bit more about yourself? That was just a brief intro, but please, you have 30 years of experience. Tell us a little bit more about you.

Karen Tuschak:

Sure. So I do have over 30 years of experience. I started off as a paralegal working in big law. I then went into small law firms and in-house, worked for a tech company as business development and training, and then was managing all of the paralegals across Denton’s Canada. So I had 140 paralegals reporting to me when covid hit. And after having to manage 140 people remotely for over a year, I decided it was time to go out on my own. So I started out my own business, s Spider Silk Solutions and Spider Silk Solutions was developed by two of my main passions, which was paralegals and technology. So I started it up to really help law firms and in-house legal departments really recognize the value that a paralegal brings to the legal services delivery model. And I do a lot of organizational structuring of them job descriptions. And then also I always viewed paralegals as technology champions. So technology automatically came into my foray as well. So I now work with a lot of tech startups that are looking at coming into Canada or moving into North America, and I do customer success for them. And it’s great because I understand the workings of a law firm and I also get to still push that paralegal as a tech champ when I’m doing the adoption.

Tony Sipp:

That’s awesome. Clearly, you’re at the forefront of implementing cutting edge technology in the legal setting. What are some of the most transformative tools or systems that you’ve worked with?

Karen Tuschak:

So when I first started out, one of the biggest tools that was coming into the industry was legal entity management systems. I did a lot of work in the corporate field, so there’s a lot of different players out in the market, but it really changed the way the corporate paralegals did their work. It was really the foray into technology when technology wasn’t really being used yet. And there was a lot of players. Most recently e-discovery tools are really big, especially on the paralegal front. And most recently I worked with a company that does a lot of data visualization. It’s really become big out there in the industry as people are looking at new ways to visualize the data to show it in court or to introduce it to their clients as opposed to having to read it through Excel or Word or in that way. So those are some of the areas that have really, I’ve seen coming up and coming, but there’s so many nowadays. Every day there’s a new startup or a new type of software that’s out there.

Tony Sipp:

With that said, how do you see the legal technology involving in our field in the next five to 10 years, and what emerging trends should legal professionals look for, especially for the paralegal profession, and what should they prepare themselves for to make them still on the cutting edge?

Karen Tuschak:

So the first thing I always say is don’t be afraid of the technology. There’s so much out there about worrying about AI and taking over and how people need to be afraid of their jobs. I never worried about that. In fact, when we started with legal entity management systems, it was the same type of thing. And I always say that technology enhances the work of the paralegal because it allows you to have the more administrative things done by the technology and lets you really do that higher level work and that more client driven work. So I’ve always embraced technology and tell people don’t be afraid of it.

Jill Francisco:

And I like how you say that too, because I feel like that the paralegal, that’s like one of our special tasks or superpowers is we like to call ’em sometimes is when there’s something new, Hey, we’re going to get training in this software or we’re going to switch over to this, or we’re going to try a different program. How other legal staff, not to mention anybody, attorneys kind of drags your feet, I don’t want change. How can I basically move to a whole new system, but I don’t get affected at all? And of course to me that’s where the paralegals will come in and kind of just smooth it over, try to make it minimal and try to navigate the change as successfully as possible for the attorneys and the partners and things like that of a law firm.

Karen Tuschak:

It’s one of the things that I’ve really loved about working on pilots and trials with new technology companies is that I’m able to always tell the law firm, make sure you have paralegals on that pilot team because dollars to donuts, the lawyers sign up, but they don’t go in and ever trial it. And it’s the paralegals that really can go in and trial it out and see what’s working and what’s not working. And so process driven. So it makes so much sense to make sure that the paralegals are on that team. Great. I love that.

Tony Sipp:

Karen, I know you started off as a paralegal and there’s been an evolution. You’ve been riding with that evolution as well. What are some of the things that you’ve seen evolve over your career and what opportunities do you see for growth in the future for paralegals?

Karen Tuschak:

So the one thing that I’ve always said is that paralegals have such transferable skills that the world is your oyster, right? Because there’s so much that we’re really known for and that we can do from detail orientation to process management, to project management. I mean, all of these new jobs that are coming up in the legal environment, legal operations, we’ve been doing them for years, they just haven’t been called that. So I just see that the paralegal field is just growing and growing and whereas there was people that were saying in the past that it was going to shrink, that’s not happening at all. In fact, if anything, when I speak to paralegals, their roles are growing and their responsibilities are growing. And I often say that for a while there, during Covid, there was a lot of movement of associates are moving from firm to firm and jumping and going to different countries. But if you treat a paralegal with respect and fairly and acknowledge their contribution, they’re staying and they are your client retention tool because they’re the ones that are always there, the clients get to know. And they’re not just jumping to become a partner, they just want to be committed to where they are.

Jill Francisco:

Yeah, that’s a great point. And when you mentioned covid too, I feel like I always try to get the positives out of Covid. You hear so many of the course, obviously negative aspects around it and lost lives and everything. But I feel like that paralegals got a real chance to expand more because you had that skillset and they couldn’t find workers to do, let’s say claims department insurance claims and things like that in a big, say, insurance company in house. And now it’s like I have some friends that have gone into the claims and it’s like, if you think about it, that was always seemed to make sense, but it’s like I think some companies are hesitant. They’re like, they have a checklist of, well, when we hire for this position, we want this, this, this, this and this. And if you don’t have it, they think, oh, you can’t do it. And then of course now they couldn’t get anybody to work. So now people that maybe only have 70% of the stuff or whatever get a chance or their eyes are opening to other suggestions or ways to get good employees on their roster.

Karen Tuschak:

I’ll never forget when I went into my first management role and the lawyer that was interviewing me said, so it’s down to two candidates. Karen, it’s you and a lawyer, and why would we hire you over the lawyer? And I said, the better question was why would you hire the lawyer over me? I’m managing paralegals. Yes. Who better to manage paralegal than someone who’s been a paralegal for 20 years? Right. Perfect. Right. And I got the job. Yes.

Tony Sipp:

That not surprise. I love that. Not surprise. So Karen, you helped me out a lot during covid. I think that’s when we met during that period of time and you helped me out with my team of paralegals to the one thing that everybody just hates to do billing. And you helped my team how to utilize the tools that we were using at the firm at the time to maximize its efficiency and their efficiency. And a lot of people caught on, a lot of people, like you said earlier, are still afraid of AI and generative AI and trying to utilize those skills. Some people are afraid that they won’t get it. Any advice or suggestions that you can provide someone out there that is like, oh my gosh, this is going to take my job, it’s going to take over. I don’t have the skillset to gain that skillset. What advice would you give those

Karen Tuschak:

People? So I think I would tell them that first of all, learn about it. A lot of the fear that comes out of AI or feeling that you’re going to lose your job comes because you just don’t really understand it. And there’s so many courses that are out there that are talking about ai, talking about AI in the legal field, talk to your managers, talk to the firm where you’re at. Really, I always tell paralegals, make sure that you’re finding out what is the strategic vision of your firm so you can really figure out where you fit in and just do your best to set yourself apart from what the technology is. And don’t ever forget that we are people, people. So clients still are going to want to speak to people. They still want someone to answer the phone. I mean, I know I get aggravated when I call for support somewhere and it’s a bot and it’s like it, oh, I can’t answer that question. It’s like, just give me a person. I just go 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0

Jill Francisco:

People. And I’ll keep doing it because I’m a persistent paralegal.

Karen Tuschak:

And one of the things I think a lot of paralegals don’t do a lot of is promoting ourselves for what we do and who we are. And I think that’s really important. Never shy away from all of the value that we add to that legal services client delivery model. And I think that the more we do that and the more we talk ourselves up, the better off we’re going to be as a profession as a whole.

Jill Francisco:

Totally agree. Always educating what is a paralegal? What exactly do you do? I mean that’s like was the question and the intrigue when I came into the profession in what, like 97? And we’re still doing that off and on with people that you just aren’t familiar. And like you said, don’t be afraid to toot your own horn when we have a lot of great paralegals out there, like you said, that deserve to do that for sure.

Tony Sipp:

Definitely want to stand out and not stick out. So I think that’s fantastic. Leadership and business development. So you’ve been in those roles where you’ve led a hundred plus paralegals. So what is your approach to leadership and team management that has helped shape your success with the teams that you’ve worked with?

Karen Tuschak:

So I think the first thing I always tell the people that I work with, and I always say they don’t work for me, they work with me, is that I am their advocate. My biggest role as a manager or leader is that I am trying to remove boundaries that they have, get them technology. That’s great, recognize them. I’m their champion. So yes, at times your management, you have to make some difficult decisions. But my primary role in whether I’ll succeed is whether they all really can do their jobs, do them well, are recognized, love what they do. That’s my role.

Tony Sipp:

I see why we get along to the world. That’s exactly how I see my management style. I mean, I don’t see, as the boss, I see I’m your biggest advocate. I want to help you succeed. And to that end, when you succeed, I succeed.

Jill Francisco:

I was just going to say real quick, we went through three and they’re not really our, we don’t have paralegal managers at the firm I work at. We just kind of have contact people or like you said, people that that’s who the paralegals can go to. And a couple of ’em had taken on the role and really just been too busy and others maybe weren’t so great or really not what they wanted to do. But then this last one is exactly what you were just saying, that she wants to just enhance and help and educate and just everything about paralegals to make others in the firm. So they use us more so they understand what we’re doing, they understand what we can do. And like you said, it’s great that she gets that already that that’s her main purpose. So it’s really, you hit it right on the head right there. That’s the key. And it’s nice when you have somebody to think that’s what they’re doing for you. It makes it a lot easier to do your job.

Karen Tuschak:

Absolutely. And there’s so many ways to do that by making sure that the paralegals have their own portal on the website and intranet and by promoting their successes and making sure when the firm acknowledges a team that has completed something. And I always say, if a big deal closes, don’t just recognize the lawyers and the paralegals, but what about the copy center people and the people that did the mail room? If any one of those doesn’t do their role, the deal could not close on time. So let’s acknowledge everyone. And it’s not just lawyers in a firm, it’s everybody.

Tony Sipp:

Save that for the people in the back.

Karen Tuschak:

Yes,

Jill Francisco:

Exactly. Everybody,

Tony Sipp:

Let’s take a quick commercial break and we will be right back and welcome back to the Paralegal Voice. I’m Tony Sipp and I’m here with Jill Francisco and we’re here with Karen Tuschak. Karen’s from Canada, and we met during covid. It’s been a really great way to connect with other people. So some of the positive things that came out of Covid were these relationships that we’ve established. So Karen, going into client value, your career emphasizes delivering exceptional client value. Can you share an example where your initiative significantly impacted a client’s success?

Karen Tuschak:

Yeah, so one of my clients was having a problem interfacing with their clients. So they were trying to get more work out of them. They couldn’t figure out how to do it. The client was not always responding. But I knew that from a professional development standpoint that that client was like they were suffering and they really, I thought, okay, let’s get to their clients through a different way than just pure, we want to do your work, we’re going to bill you time. Let’s see how we could help them out of something that they had a problem with. And I went back to my paralegal background and said, if we can get the paralegals at the law firm to do some professional development and mentoring with the paralegals at the client, then we’re actually helping that client developing their paralegals internally, because they didn’t have the ability to do that.

They were a small legal department. So the law firm reached out to them and said, we’ve got paralegals. Why don’t we set up some lunch and learns where R pegs can train your paralegals pro bono, just as part of our client relationship. And through doing that, the law firm got to know more about their client. The paralegals were the ones that the client that were sending out the work, and now they had this law firm that they recognized their value and they were helping out. And the workflow started really going between the two. So it was great for me, I got to use my experience with the skills of a paralegal in a different way to generate that business from my client.

Tony Sipp:

Did that take a while to get back from management to your paralegal skills?

Karen Tuschak:

It tough. It did. It is. I mean, I always make sure still that even though I’m not really doing paralegal work now, I always make sure that I take on a couple clients where I’ll do some transactional work just because I like to keep my hands in it. I like to, when I’m advising on something or managing people, I like to make sure that I myself know how the process is done so that I can always roll my slaves up and help out if I need to.

Tony Sipp:

I love management. Sometimes it can be tough getting back into that role with the paralegal role. So I get it. You were talking about the business development. So which strategies do you recommend for law firms to innovate and remain competitive in an increasing crowded market? Because as we know during covid, those that weren’t tech savvy, if you will, went out of business and a lot of people grabbed those lawyers from those firms and those other firms obviously are gone. I guess what strategies do you recommend for law firms to innovate and remain competitive so that they stay increasingly valued in today’s market?

Karen Tuschak:

So I think law firms really need to look at the technology they’re using. They don’t always need to go out and my technology clients will kill me, but they don’t always need to buy new technology. Sometimes they have it, they just haven’t adopted it. I like to run discovery sessions with law firms to see what is it, what problem are you trying to fix with the technology? And then choosing the technology tool that really addresses that. But to remain really competitive, I really believe that there’s that personal touch as well. So as a law firm, you really need to make sure that you understand your client’s business because more than just pushing a button, you are a business advisor to them as well. And the more their business, the more that business becomes sticky to the law firm as well. So I think taking that personal interest and really understanding not just the legal work that you’re doing for them, but what their business imperative and initiative is really helps. And it also gives you new avenues that you can offer legal services to them.

Tony Sipp:

To that point, that’s why Spider Solutions exist. Can you tell us two things? One, how did you come up with the name Spider Silk Solutions and secondly on the legal services, how does Spider silk solutions focus on aligning traditional legal services with modern efficiency? And what’s your vision for how legal services would look moving forward, like let’s say 20 years out?

Karen Tuschak:

So spider silk solution. So first how I came up with the name. So I often laugh, I say I came up with the name just so that people would ask me the question, but I was really trying to think of a name that met my core objectives when I was starting to build my business and looking at a business model. And one was strength and resilience and spider silk is the most resilient natural fabric that there is. It’s tough, it’s flexible. And the other thing I wanted to build into the name was the role of pivoting because I feel that paralegals are so often going in one direction and then pivot into another. Much spiders pivot in the web. When the web breaks, they pivot and start to build their web in a different direction. And it just came to me, spider silk innovative solutions. My husband thought I was crazy. He said, what kind of a name is that? But it really resonated with me because it built in all the core values that I was having in the company that I was creating

Jill Francisco:

When you first started talking, that the name or the company brought about a couple things of your favorite, I thought you were going to say Spider and silk are my favorite. Two things. Thankfully it was paralegals, but anyway, one was paralegals. But anyway, super cool. I like it. Love it.

Karen Tuschak:

It’s always paralegals with me, Joe.

Jill Francisco:

Right, exactly.

Karen Tuschak:

And then everything else.

And with respect to efficiencies and what I see in growing the business, I really see that innovation is key. I mean, all big law, small law, they’re all having now innovation directors, knowledge management, innovation, it, they’re all kind of melding and looking at what their place is within the law firm. And I think that’s going to continue to evolve just like generative eye and what’s going to come in products with ai. And I’ve seen a lot of great products that have brought AI in that it’s a tool to help you do your work, but it’s not doing the work for you. So I think it’s important that to build those efficiencies, we’re always looking when we’re bringing in new technology of how it fits into workflows and how we may need to adjust our workflows as the technology is adjusting as well. So one of the real risks I see with law firms is that they bring in technology and then they continue to use it the way it was the day they brought it in.

And technology’s always evolving, so you need to keep up to date with the changes and adjust accordingly. And then looking at how you’re staffing the files based on the technology, the innovation, the efficiencies, and your current compliment of paralegals or lawyers or all the different areas in the law firm that people are working on the files. And I often used to say that when people build a strategic plan, they would build their five-year plan. You need to revisit it every couple months. You can’t just say, okay, this is my plan for five years. Because the world and technology and job roles are changing constantly. And to keep up, you need to constantly be looking at what’s next.

Tony Sipp:

It’s hard to budget for,

Karen Tuschak:

It’s extremely hard to budget for. But as a Canadian, as a hockey fan, Wayne Gretzky said it best when he said, don’t look where the puck is now. Look at where it’s going. And that’s what you always have to be doing, always looking

Tony Sipp:

Forward. That’s awesome. That’s a great quote.

Karen Tuschak:

Pay attention.

Tony Sipp:

Very good point. Yes, yes. So Karen, what advice would you give legal professionals, paralegals, especially those just starting their career, get requests all the time from students and those looking for a job that just graduated, trying to find their first job. If it’s tough in that field, it’s tough in our field to try to get that shot, get your shot at becoming a paralegal entry level, anything. So for those just starting their career and staying ahead, what advice would you give them about staying ahead in this rapidly involving legal industry?

Karen Tuschak:

So my biggest thing is learn, learn, learn. You never stop learning. I’ve never stopped learning. So take every opportunity it is to learn. Put yourself out there for opportunities, volunteer. I mean, firms now when they’re hiring, they’re not just looking at what your marks were in school, they’re looking at you as a whole person. So with all the diversity initiatives and inclusion initiatives like get involved in your community, get involved in a paralegal association. I mean, when I joined the International Paralegal Management Association, I mean the friendships and people I’ve met through there have helped guide my career. And I always have someone at the other end of a phone that I can pick up and speak to and that those mentorship relationships are huge and go out there and find those. And sometimes a mentor is not another paralegal, sometimes it’s just somebody else that in the firm, it can be a lawyer, it can be an hr. It’s just find that person that you can connect with and trust and really build your network. LinkedIn is great. Put yourself out there, connect with people, and just continue to build your network because network is so important.

Tony Sipp:

That’s great advice. And if you don’t have a LinkedIn profile, what should you do?

Karen Tuschak:

You should create one. Yeah.

Yes, absolutely. Should you put your picture in there too? But be honest. And your LinkedIn profile nowadays, I mean firms have all of these AI functionalities that they can check everything that you’ve put on. So really be honest to who you are. But if you’re looking for something, go for it. My biggest thing is never think that you’re not qualified because there may be a skillset that you have that is exactly what that firm or in-house legal department is looking for, and they may look past what they can train you with if they see that in your personality. So never think you’re underqualified for something.

Tony Sipp:

That is such great advice. And I know that I’ve read that 95% of recruiters look at your LinkedIn profile when they’re trying to hire. Make sure you get that built up. And again, that’s great advice. Don’t ever feel that you’re unqualified because you’re not. There is some skillset that you have come as you are. For a lot of people, this is a second career. So with that, they have this experience in whatever they have experience in. That might be the thing that the firm wants come as you are. I love that advice.

Karen Tuschak:

Absolutely.

Tony Sipp:

And you were talking about the personal touch and having that human connection. What keeps you motivated and passionate about innovating in your legal services and expanding three decades? Why do you still care?

Karen Tuschak:

My paralegal career has brought me so much that I just always want to give back and I want to give back because there was people that gave to me all along the way when I’m doing technology implementations. I love that wow factor. I love it when the light bulb just clicks with the people using the technology and when they really get it and when they tell you how. That really changed something that I did that changed my life because I could go home to my kids. I wasn’t sitting and filtering through paper for all hours of the day and night. But also, it’s like I just so firmly believe in the role of the paralegal. I love doing these sorts of podcasts. I love speaking at paralegal sessions and I love going into law firms and getting them to really recognize the value that the paralegal brings to the table. And I just think it’s such an important career that I just get motivated by getting other people to see how important it’s, I think

Tony Sipp:

That’s fantastic. Let’s take a quick break and we will be right back and welcome back to the Paralegal Voice. My name is Tony Sipp and I’m here with Jill Francisco and Karen Tuschak, our guest. Karen, I know you helped me out during the covid and helped my team out with the billing programs, which is really great. Great. Are there things that you have or tools that you have that can help train new paralegals to become good, excellent. And dispensable paralegals?

Karen Tuschak:

Absolutely. Through spider silk solutions, I offer a couple of different services. Number one mentoring program. So for firms that have a paralegal that need some help or they just did their performance review and they think they could use some coaching, whether it’s on how to do your time management or how to time capture all different things, they’ll sometimes bring me in. I need to do four or five sessions with the person and just act as that mentor to them. I also offer different professional development sessions. Some of them I do bespoke training for law firms that really recognize there’s a specific area that they’d love to have their paralegals trained on and others is kind of like a set curriculum course. I have sessions on the art of time capturing the art of saying no how to be a leader without the title. All things that paralegals often have to go to. And sometimes I do them remote and sometimes I do them. I’ll go there in person. But the great thing is paralegals always come away with a toolkit. So I never do training sessions where I’m just sitting and speaking. They get advanced things we’re going to get discussed so that they can become prepared. And I always offer them a safe zone afterwards. So if there’s questions they had that they didn’t want to ask in front of everybody else, always give them my contact information and they can reach out and call me.

Jill Francisco:

That’s awesome because so you’re saying that you could have it if a firm, like you said, had an individual paralegal and like you said, had some either additional training or maybe they were like a lateral hire and they needed some more adjustment to what that certain place does. Or you could treat it as a group of paralegals that you’re just giving, I think would probably be your time management or just some stuff that would apply to anyone or any paralegal no matter where they are in their career. I was just thinking, we have a huge law firm. We have offices all over the country, and I think we have around a hundred little over a hundred paralegals, so that would be neat to do.

Karen Tuschak:

Absolutely. One firm brought me in and they had their partner retreat and their lawyer retreat, and they brought me in to do an hour session on the power of the paralegal and how to properly optimize paralegals in your law firm so that they could properly use them. I often do training with lawyers on how to utilize paralegals because for some reason what people always tell me is they probably have people internally that could do that, but they listen to a consultant, they think I Right, right. So it’s great. There’s so many different ways to spread the message at a law firm.

Jill Francisco:

That’s a real good point because I think generationally, I think the newer ones are more apt to listen. I’ll joke with a new clerk or something, then they’re going to get hired. I’ll say, Hey, you need to be best friends with the paralegal because you can do all that stuff that you wrote in law school, but then if it never gets to the right person or you never get a hearing date, or you don’t have these relationships that the paralegal has built and has in the town or city, it doesn’t amount to anything. But I think the older ones still sometimes don’t necessarily use ’em to a full extent. And also I think it matters plaintiff defense, that type of thing.

Karen Tuschak:

Absolutely. And two of the other things that I’ll just highlight is the competency model for paralegals is I often try and get firms to make sure that they have a competency model for their paralegals. And then there’s transparency evaluations as well because they’re built on the competency model. And then I also sometimes work with firms to just create a career playbook for their paralegals. So they come in, what is their career trajectory at that law firm? Because law firms are doing everything they can now to keep their paralegals. So they need to offer these different sorts of courses. And paralegals can go into the business development department into it. If they like technology, they can go. I went back and got my HR designation when I started managing paralegals. I wanted to have that HR side of it. So it’s great to have that career playbook, and I have it for paralegals, but also for the legal assistants that want to become paralegals so that you’re growing your people within as opposed to having to go outside.

Jill Francisco:

So right about that. I mean, our firm, like a big law firm, they just did a thing where they had some certain qualifications, not really black and white, but kind of generalize. And if you met those, they gave us the senior paralegal title, an additional raise, an additional bonus, yearly fulfilling, all those qualifications. And so it was nice because, I mean, like you said, I don’t want to go anywhere else. I know my job. I like the people I work with. I like the people that I like that how they know my work. And I’m not proving myself anymore. I can just do a good job and kind of go about my business. But also, I’ve often said early in my career that sometimes that’s how paralegals have to advance is to leave, and then somebody else will see the value and then you’ll get that jump up. And it’s unfortunate sometimes, possibly when you are happy where you are. They’re a pretty progressive law firm, and I really like that they took that seriously. And like you said, are definitely retaining experienced, seasoned paralegals.

Tony Sipp:

Karen, what is something that people don’t know about you that you can share with us on the podcast?

Karen Tuschak:

So what do people don’t know about me? That people don’t believe it when I tell them that I just became a grandmother. What? Yes. Hi.

Tony Sipp:

Congratulations.

Karen Tuschak:

My very first grandchild, a little baby girl. Woohoo. I only have boys, so having a girl is she’s, she’s only four months old, but it’s already, I’m waiting to go for those manicures and pedicures with her small day.

Jill Francisco:

Well, congratulations. That’s awesome.

Tony Sipp:

What’s her name?

Karen Tuschak:

Her name’s Nora.

Tony Sipp:

Nora. Love it. That’s so sweet. Where can listeners find you and get in contact with you for more information about Spider solutions and training as well?

Karen Tuschak:

Sure. So my website is www.spidersilksolutions.com, and they can always reach out to me at [email protected].

Tony Sipp:

Awesome. Awesome. And we’ll put that on the website so you can find that information when you get in contact with a Legal talk network, the Paralegal Voice. So with that, Karen, thank you for coming on and being our guest today coming from way up north. Yes.

Jill Francisco:

What another beauty of Covid, we never use Zoom. And look at us now, zooming all over the place. Thank you so much for your info and for Tony for getting in touch. We appreciate it.

Karen Tuschak:

My pleasure.

Tony Sipp:

Thank you so much. Alright, well this has been another episode of the Paralegal Voice. We will see you next time. Have a great day. Have.

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