Advancing Your Career: Advice From A Real-Life Success Story

Episode Notes

Transcript

Tony Sipp:

Hi folks, and welcome back. My name is Tony Sipp with a Paralegal Voice podcast. I have a special guest with us today. Her name is Shelly Walker. She’s the director of legal administration for Polsinelli. She’s been in the position for 29 years and is excellent, and I’m so happy to have Shelly with us today.

Shelly A. Walker:

Thank you for inviting me to do this podcast. I think when I saw your resume too, there were so many similarities between the two of us, so I really appreciate you asking me to do this. Probably the best way to start with how I got in this industry, I think I always wanted to be a lawyer, but I left college early and didn’t finish it at that time and had a child, and so at that point I knew that I needed to do something better with myself to be able to take care of us. I decided to go to paralegal school, which led me to the career that I’m in now. I worked for two years for the court system doing adult abuse, which is where people come to get restraining orders. I did that for two years and then I was very fortunate to apply for a position here at Polsinelli. At that time, I was what they called a case clerk, and I did the docketing for the firm. So that’s really my first job here was actually doing the litigation docketing for the firm.

Tony Sipp:

Were you interested in becoming a paralegal or is that something that happened? Is it something like you started off with the document clerk, which I mean people that are getting, especially people that are entry level trying to get into the field and they want to get their first step in, that’s definitely something that they could do. So it sounds like that’s what you did.

Shelly A. Walker:

Yeah, that’s exactly what I did.

Tony Sipp:

Something happened that you said, let’s do more.

Shelly A. Walker:

Yes. I wanted to be a paralegal beyond anything, so that was it. But really the thing that led me to be a paralegal was another paralegal who worked at the firm. I mean, she did toxic tort work and she knew that I wanted to be a paralegal, so she trained me on how to do her job because she was going on maternity leave. So when she left for maternity leave, I did her job and did the docketing. Then she came back from maternity leave, and so the team, I was doing toxic tort asbestos work. They gave me my own set of cases to do, and then eventually this same paralegal left again to have her second child, and she told me she wasn’t coming back. So she said, this is your job if you want it. So that is exactly what happened. When she left, they hired someone else to do the docketing, and I began doing defense work in the litigation group for toxic torts. So gone to trial back then. Sometimes I wish we had some of the newer things that everybody has now at trial. We used to fax depots back and forth. But anyway, I got all of my paralegal experience with the toxic tort asbestos litigation group. We used to call ourselves the A team,

So that’s where the paralegal work. And I did that for several years. And then at this firm, the toxic tort group was pretty big. I started working with the paralegal manager at that time, so I began to supervise the asbestos paralegals while she supervised all the other paralegals. So that was my first step into managing managing paralegals.

Tony Sipp:

That is such a great story and very inspirational as well. So it’s something that you just stuck with and it was preparation meets opportunity.

Shelly A. Walker:

Yeah, it was, and it was somebody having the confidence in you to be able to do it, because I wouldn’t have guessed that I would’ve, when I got that first paralegal job, I would’ve been happy right then. I didn’t have any idea about the management piece of it except for the fact that the paralegal manager who hired me is one of the most amazing people I’ve ever met. And so if there was anybody to emulate, she was that person. But I don’t know that I ever actually thought I want to be her, but I really did end up with a job very similar to her,

Tony Sipp:

Which is so interesting because a lot of the things that we preach with paralegals and rising up in their career is to find a mentor, somebody that you can look up to, somebody that can advise you, somebody that can be where you want to be next or where you were and try to help you advance your career. Did you find that working with her, the paralegal manager that saw something in you that they were like, you’re going to be great. Did that help you one, get more confidence in yourself and help you strive to be even more? And then two, just realizing how this career works that you can advance, you can be what you want to be as you move up. So was that helpful? Did you have a mentor or did she kind of default become your mentor?

Shelly A. Walker:

I’d never officially had a mentor. That particular paralegal manager left pretty early, left our firm pretty early in my career, but we still are very close today. I don’t think she really realized how much I respected her and wanted to manage paralegals in the same way that she managed paralegals. And then after that, we had another paralegal manager. At this time, I was still just working with the asbestos group, and she kind of helped me because I was the type who wanted to do everything and realized that I couldn’t do everything and take care of my home. And so she really would offer me some suggestions of ways that I could get some of the help and support that I needed. But it was nice to have those women in those positions where you can see how they made decisions and you decide whether you want to do it the same or different. But they did set good examples for me, but I wish that I would’ve now, I try to encourage people, if you want somebody to be your mentor, if you want to just ask ’em, most people will be happy to say yes. So I’ve been fortunate enough to have maybe just a couple of people who have came to me and we actively mentored them, which was, I really love doing it actually.

Tony Sipp:

It’s such an important thing to give back. So it’s something that really just fascinates me about the profession and how much, no matter what level you get up to, people still want to help you get even higher than them. Just such a fascinating career that way. So one of the things that I found interesting is that you’ve done a lot with being able to, you also are the chair of the staff of diversity equity inclusion committee. How did that tie into helping your career, getting you up to where you are now?

Shelly A. Walker:

That was for me, being asked to be the chair of our staff diversity and equity and inclusion committee, to me is the best thing. I’ll always look at that as one of the biggest accomplishments and honors. Honestly, I look at it more as an honor at this firm. I was one of those employees that had a lot to say sometimes, and as I was, I’ve been here for a long time, and it used to drive me crazy that we had diversity, but it only dealt with the attorneys, and I couldn’t understand why it wouldn’t have anything to do with the staff. And so I used to mention that over and over and over again to different attorneys that I worked with. And so after George Floyd was killed, we were all at home during covid and our firm made a conscious effort to make some changes within our firm.

And one of those changes was to have a staff diversity equity and inclusion committee. And they asked me because of my big mouth about it mouth, but they asked me would I take the lead in it. So at that point, I think it was 2020, probably July or something like that, of 2020 when we put together a committee, it’s really been amazing is the committee. We have 20 offices. So we were trying to make sure that the committee represented different offices, different backgrounds, and so it just was a group of us that ended up being together. And then what really wasn’t too many backgrounds at the firm that weren’t represented on this committee. And so since then we’ve done recognitions. I’ve learned so much about other cultures that I didn’t know. It makes you realize you think that your background or where you came from is the group that has been challenged and you realize, Nope, there’s a whole lot of groups that have been challenged and it’s been so great to kind of understand that and develop these great relationships with people. And so the one thing that this firm has done since they did this committee was invite the staff diversity committee to their minority attorney retreat, which had traditionally just been attorneys. So they invite us to participate in the retreat. We always do a presentation for them at the retreat. As a matter of fact, they look forward to our presentations, but we learn so much and they mingle us in with all the attorneys. So it really has been, I think it’s one of the highlights of my career.

Tony Sipp:

Wow, that’s a beautiful story. We’re going to have to take a quick commercial break to support our sponsors that are supporting us. So we will be right back and welcome back to the Paralegal Voice. I’m here with my guest, Shelly Walters, and we’re here talking about DEI and some of the things that are really important about having that diversity, that inclusion, that equity, and the sense of belonging. One of the things that I can share with you, Shelly, is that when I became president in 2020 with the Los Angeles Paralegal Association, one of the things I wanted to do, and even before the whole George Floyd thing happened was to create a committee that people could participate in and get involved with. Just so happens that my co-host, Jill Francisco wanted to do the same thing. And to this day, both of us have a good thriving DEI committee with both of our associations.

So you mentioned that you became the chair of doing that and you’ve learned a great deal about just different cultures. What advice would you give to others as far as getting involved and getting engaged with DEI and with firms? More firms are getting more active and more involved with doing this, and they understand the importance of really having a diverse clientele and having diverse people represent diverse people. So it’s important. Many times I see it as a requirement for the clients. So how do you think the law firm business benefits from having diverse really employees on the other side of who they’re trying to hire?

Shelly A. Walker:

Yeah, I think they benefit in so many ways. I think they benefit one because they are now listening to and hearing ideas, thoughts from the people that are really doing the work every day. So I think that a lot of times it’s those people that know it’s very simple. All of us, remember when we went home for Covid who held the law firms together, in my mind it was office services. We couldn’t have survived at this firm if our office services people didn’t continue to come in day and keep everything going while everybody else was at home. And so I think that just hearing those ideas from people realizing that they have so much to contribute, realizing that this is their job every day and they care about it. They want positive outcomes for the firm just like the shareholders do. And so I think that’s a huge part of it. And then people give you their best when they feel like they belong to something, then they’re going to give their best to it, and that’s all it is. And it really doesn’t even take that much, really. People just want to feel like they belong to something and they’re not just a number that’s supposed to clock in and clock out and go home.

Tony Sipp:

We’re dealing with different generations and you’ve been able to sustain a career. You’re dominating your career and not everybody’s doing that anymore. So what advice would you give to people who are trying to come into, I mean, sure, you’re going to get that entry level and want to get into the field, but things have changed a little bit, right? What advice would you give people that are coming into this field, they see what you’ve accomplished. I mean, you went from adopting clerk to director of legal administration. You’ve had a very successful career. It is not even over. That was not a period at the end of that, I’m

Shelly A. Walker:

Getting close. I’m getting close.

Tony Sipp:

I don’t even know what is up for you in the air, but you’re a role model as far as I’m concerned. You’re a role model and I want people to see somebody like you and go look at her. I can do the same thing. So what advice would you give somebody now coming up that wants to do the same thing that you have already accomplished in your life? Because knowing you strike me as somebody who wants somebody to go beyond you, somebody that’s going to just, you were like, I did great, but you know what? You can do a lot more too. So you seem to be that person to me, and if I’m wrong, I’m wrong. But I think you’re that person.

Shelly A. Walker:

You’re absolutely right. One thing I absolutely love about this generation, to me, paralegals, it’s been paralegals for five years, 10 years, that kind of thing. The one thing I love about them is I think they have the confidence and the resources that I didn’t have at first and the confidence, I didn’t have that at all. But they have the confidence. Confidence in themselves. They know what they’re worth or they sure can find out what they’re worth. And so that’s what I love about them. But I think you do have to find a way to be confident without being over arrogant and then actually know what you’re talking about I think helps.

Tony Sipp:

That part helps. That part helps.

Shelly A. Walker:

I think you have to listen. I think I learned so much at one point in my career, I was kind of struggling and I worked with the person who at that was our chief operating officer, and he really challenged me. It really, really, really challenged me. But the challenges that he gave me, I believe being able to overcome those challenges led me to where I am today. And so he challenged me. I learned to listen. I learned to not take things personally. And if you know what’s needed for what you’re doing and learning everything about what’s needed for what you’re doing, and be the person that’s willing to do a little extra, take it to the next step without always having to have somebody cheer you on to do it, you’re going to make it. I mean, I think law firms are just places where people can thrive, but you work hard at a law firm, and so you got to be willing to do that. And if you’re not, then you may just come in and do your work and leave and that’s fine, that’s fine. But I think that if you want to grow, you have to show some initiative and then make them, once you show that initiative, then make sure that they understand that they need to compensate you.

Tony Sipp:

Yeah, they see what you did. They see the contributions that you’re making.

Shelly A. Walker:

They see the contributions that you’re making, but don’t go in. I think probably one of the things that I see sometimes with candidates are people who really haven’t accomplished what they think they deserve. And so it can kind of be a struggle. So know your worth, know your value, but also watch the people around you and know, I do know I’m right here with them. And so I can make it. I can do it. Be confident. It’s the biggest thing.

Tony Sipp:

This is the greatest advice ever. We’re going to take a quick commercial break and we will be read back and welcome back to the Paralegal Voice. My name is Tony Sipp. I’m here with Shelly Walker. We were talking about paralegals advancing their careers to paralegals, to paralegal managers, and in just advancing their careers. One of the questions that I get a lot are how do I become a paralegal manager from a paralegal? That next leap into management. You’ve already done that. You’ve already accomplished that. Is there any advice that you can give paralegals that are coming up or that are in that role or been in that role, that are striving to make that next break? What advice would you give them to help them advance their careers?

Shelly A. Walker:

My first thing I would tell them is especially if you’re working with several paralegals and you guys work together and maybe you’re in the same practice area or something like that, you take the step up and you try to be the one to suggest, why don’t we do this next? And you be the one to suggest you step in when somebody’s not there and kind of help out and you oversee the process and you look at ways that you guys can do things better. I think that’s exactly what happened to me is we get a new client, will you take the lead and say, well, why don’t we do this with this client and why don’t we organize the files this way? Take that lead. And then people will see you taking that lead, and then they will come to you about leading other things. The people they respect you, the other paralegals, they respect you. So then they’ll start coming to you and asking questions and asking what you think. And sometimes you just will then naturally become the leader that people look at. And when you’re the leader that people looks at, then when that opportunity arises, you can take it or you can suggest, we need somebody to oversee this group. We got 10 litigation paralegals and the person that’s over us doesn’t know anything about litigation. I can do that.

So those are the opportunities really I think that you could take to put yourself in a position. And even if it’s nothing official, your firm may not be big enough to make it something official, but when it comes to performance review time, you can say, Hey, this is what I’m doing. And many times people don’t mind change a title to, you’re now the paralegal coordinator, you’re now the paralegal supervisor, those kinds of things because you were willing to take on those extra duties. So I think managing processes and just kind of helping oversee people is really a good way to lead into it.

Tony Sipp:

When I made the switch from paralegal to paralegal manager, there was some soft skills that needed to refresh my skills on. So because it’s no longer about just, it’s more the business of law, not actually dealing with the cases like the civil litigation for example. How did you make that transition from having those hard skills that you learned in school to having some of those other hard and soft skills to deal with people?

Shelly A. Walker:

It was harder for me because I did hate giving up the paralegal work, but if I’m honest, I was a much better manager than I was paralegal. I’ve seen so many really good paralegals and I wish I was as good as they are. But for me, I think being able to listen to people, being able to put yourself in their situation and then figure out really what is wrong and now what can I do to help them? I think that’s what helps as you become a manager, because most of your day is going to be filled with people and people problems, those kind of things. We need more help on. This particular case is going to be an easy problem to solve compared to having an employee who’s really struggling with working with an attorney or something like that, that’s going to be something that’s going to take more of your time. So I think it’s those people skills and trying to put yourself in that place, but always remembering the business that you’re in, the business of that firm and making sure that you’re keeping that first,

Tony Sipp:

Now that and that you’ve been there, done it. Is there anything post college that you might recommend people take on? I mean if they’re not going to do a mentor, if they’re still in school and Yeah,

Shelly A. Walker:

I would say especially if you think you want to go into management and whether it’s management of people, I would say really take some of those classes and take classes. Find out, do some of those tests. And I’m not good at knowing all the different kind of tests you take, but you need to kind of figure out what kind of person you are. You need to really know yourself and know what kind of person you are. And then you can be prepared to help other people If you know that there’s certain things that kind of push your buttons. If you’re more experienced in dealing with people, then you’ll kind of know that that person might push your button so you can be prepared for it. But I would say learn about yourself and then take management classes, but classes not just about really more classes about how to deal with people and how to work with people and how to get people to do things that they don’t really want to do and they end up being okay doing it just because of you. So I think it’s learning more about you. Honestly. I think I learned more about myself than

Tony Sipp:

That’s very good. Folks. You heard it here first here with Shelly Walker, director of legal administration. She’s been there, she’s done it. She, I’m sure people will like to reach out to you, Shelly, so can you tell us a best place for them to reach you?

Shelly A. Walker:

Yeah, you can reach me. My email address is s like [email protected]. Polsinelli is P-O-L-S-I-N-E-L-L-I. You can also call me. You have to do is call Ella. You can call any of our offices and say you want to speak to Shelly Walker and they’ll get you to me. I’d be happy to talk or answer any questions that anybody has and learn from you guys because I’m sure there’s still a lot that I need to learn. So I welcome that.

Tony Sipp:

I know it was last minute and I really appreciate you taking the time because I knew for sure just after just reading your bio, I know I have to talk to her. I have to get people out here. They need to know who you are. So thank you so much for being our guest on the paralegal podcast. Folks, please like, subscribe, reach out to Shelly, reach out to myself, reach out to Jill. Thank you again. Thank you, and I’ll see you next time on the Paralegal Voice. Have a great day. Bye.

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