Creating a Referral Network That Actually Works with Lee Rosen | First Flight #12

Episode Notes

Transcript

Adriana Linares:

Hello and welcome to New Solo on Legal Talk Network. I’m Adriana Linares, a legal technology trainer and consultant. I love helping lawyers and law firms use technology better. I want to thank our partners in developing the new Solo First Flight series for solo attorneys presented by Alps Insurance. They’re interested in helping solos and small law firms get the best start to their practices. We’ve curated the best 12 episodes for new solos and partnerships with Alps. I thought you’d enjoy hearing highlights from my episode with Lee Rosen, family lawyer and podcaster who loves to network. I hope the discussion renews some of your enthusiasm for connecting with others to grow your practice. Stay through the end when I sit down with Rio Lane from Apps Insurance. We’re going to talk about thoughtful gifts to your networks, making sure you don’t cross the line. When to tap that network for a backup attorney to help your clients in cases of succession, and the Miss Matters Guide to Saying Thanks, but no thanks to the wrong referrals.

Now, my interview with Lee Rosen. On today’s episode, we’re going to talk about strategic partnerships and referral networks with Lee Rosen. Mr. Rosen has practiced family law for more than 20 years with four offices in Raleigh, Charlotte, Durham, and Chapel Hill, North Carolina. You can check out his website and learn more about Rosenlaw Firm at rosen.com. He also served as chair of the Law Practice Management Section of the North Carolina Bar Association. He’s a frequent speaker. Often sought out by media as a source of family law insight and commentary. He’s also the publisher of Divorce Discourse, a well-known blog. Welcome, Lee.

Lee Rosen:

Thank you for having me. You did not mention in my introduction that I’m really good at poll dancing, so I felt like that. Yeah, that’s not something every lawyer can say.

Adriana Linares:

It’s not. And I think we’re going to definitely link to the video on that.

Lee Rosen:

Oh, we should. YouTube. It’s all over the YouTube. Yeah. We should spend some time there.

Adriana Linares:

So you mentioned that you had recently done a little reload to South Florida. Is this a permanent or are you doing a little snowbird thing?

Lee Rosen:

Creating a home base in Florida and then planning to do the digital nomad thing going forward after about a year or so of being in Florida and just travel the world. We’ve set up our practice so that all of our entire team, 12 lawyers and all of our staff people work remotely and people have taken advantage of that and we’ve got literally people all over the globe.

Adriana Linares:

Oh man, that is awesome. Tell us a little bit about divorce discourse, because it sounds like it would be about divorce, but you actually cover a lot of really interesting and helpful practice management tips.

Lee Rosen:

I call it divorce discourse because I want to remind people all the time that I’m a divorce lawyer, that I practice family law. I don’t want them to forget that because that has become a very significant source of referrals for our practice. But it is really a source of daily advice and information about marketing your practice, managing your practice, dealing with the technology and the finance issues. And we just delve into what’s happening in my practice as an example. And I try to teach people the lessons that I’ve learned by making a lot of mistakes.

Adriana Linares:

And it sounds like even though you may have made a lot of mistakes, you have certainly developed a very successful practice based on what you just told us a few minutes ago about being able to be agile and mobile and practice from all over the world. That’s amazing. You also mentioned that the blog has become a great source of referrals for you, which is why I invited you onto the show today. So I wanted to ask you to get started. Tell us a little bit … The show is geared toward new solos, whether they’re new attorneys that are just coming out of law school, or even for a solo attorney who has become one after having been with a larger law firm or in some other position. So my first question for you, just to start off our conversation is, do you consider a difference between forming strategic partnerships and just setting up somehow a basic referral network?

Lee Rosen:

No, I think that fundamentally they’re one and the same. I think people use the terms to describe the same thing, but in slightly different context, when they talk about strategic partnerships, I think the relationship is really oververt. When they talk about referral sources or referral networks, it’s less in your face what we’re doing. I don’t like any of those terms. What I like to think of is that I have friends that I refer to and I have friends who refer to me. And we have a relationship built on trust over time where we provide value to one another. We don’t think of it as value, but the fact is that we are doing something helpful for one another and often in lots of different ways. And so what’s comfortable to me and what I think is comfortable to a lot of us is simply building relationships with other people who have the opportunity to refer to us.

Adriana Linares:

And then how do you target or find those specific types of people?

Lee Rosen:

Well, that’s a really interesting question and I want to go backwards just for a second and talk about how important it is to build these networks. And this is the example that I like to give. If you have 20 friends that we’ll call referral sources for our purposes today, and if those 20 friends will refer six clients to you each year, and if five of those folks will hire you, because more often than not, people that were referred by a friend, they’re more likely to hire. They sort of defy the normal conversion rates. They are very, very likely to hire. And if each of those clients, those five clients, pays a fee on average of $10,000, and obviously that varies dramatically by practice area. All of these numbers do, but that’s 20 times the five clients who hire you times the 10 clients. That’s a million dollar practice.

Adriana Linares:

That’s amazing.

Lee Rosen:

Yeah. So what you’ve got to do is you’ve got to build connections with 20 people. That’s all you have to do is build connections with 20 people and then keep those connections year after year for the entirety of your career, which is not that hard to be friends with people. You’ve got a thriving practice. And if you want to do 30 people, 50 people, 60 people, or you want to hire associates and partners that do the same thing, those are the successful practices. That’s all there is to it. There’s no magic here. And so it is critically important to think about all of this in that context. So you asked, how do you pick the people? Well, what you really want are people that you like because you’re going to spend time getting to be friends and getting to know these people, and they need to be able to refer six of these people to you each year, one every other month throughout the year.

And those are the people you’re targeting, and that’s all you need is 20 of those folks in your community.

Adriana Linares:

Well, that doesn’t sound that hard. So let’s say, I’m a lawyer. Do I have inside my network then my 20, my special 20? Am I picking other lawyers, doctors, real estate agents, bankers? Am I diversifying my 20? How do I go about that idea?

Lee Rosen:

It really depends on your practice area. So I practice family law. Well, lawyers-

Adriana Linares:

Everybody needs one of those.

Lee Rosen:

Well, but lawyers are a great referral source for us. Mental health professionals are clergy members. Accountants are not bad. Gynenecologists are pretty good. Hairdressers are pretty good. But I will tell you, in my practice area, lawyers are the highest, best use of our time in terms of building relationships. Because people call a lawyer when they have a legal problem and they say, “I know you’re a real estate lawyer. I need a lawyer that does X. Who should I go to? ” And so 20 lawyers is in most networks, probably the very best use of your time.

Adriana Linares:

Well, that’s great. Well, I know I get asked for … I’m not a lawyer, but of course I’m surrounded by them and everybody knows it. And I’m constantly getting asked for lawyers to help with this type of situation or that, and I’m always happy to refer them. And in reverse, you said as a lawyer, you’re going to find people that you like and will refer you business. Well, I only refer business to the attorneys that I like. So I guess that’s kind of a two-way street.

Lee Rosen:

You got it. It really is. And you don’t want to have a friendship with somebody you don’t like. I mean, it’s just not going to work. So you’ve got to find 20 people that you like. And in the grand scheme of things, that’s not that hard to do.

Adriana Linares:

Well, unless you’re one of those people who has a likability factor of zero, then you ain’t getting nowhere.

Lee Rosen:

Well, that’s a very interesting point because a lot of lawyers, and I’m demonstrating this by talking the whole time, a lot of lawyers, one of the reasons some people aren’t as likable as they might otherwise be, is that we do tend to talk about ourselves and our ideas a lot. And if we can simply turn that upside down and use our interviewing and question asking skills to let that other person talk the whole time, suddenly the lawyer who was not terribly likable becomes the new BFF to whoever you’re having lunch with. People really like to talk about themselves. I’m demonstrating that by talking incessantly for day.

Adriana Linares:

Well, it’s why you’re here. So in your defense, you

Lee Rosen:

Should be doing that. But really it works. It works. So to make yourself more likable, ask more questions and listen more. That really impacts that likability.

Adriana Linares:

It’s true. Nobody knows that better than I do, that people do like to talk about themselves, especially lawyers. I work with them a lot. And it helps if what they’re talking about, if they’re going to be talking about themselves, is useful in making me understand how they can help me. So I think that’s a great tip. So let’s say I’ve identified my 20 referrals or more, but sort of my inner circle, the magic circle of 20 or so, and several of those should be lawyers because as you have proven time and time again, those often tend to be some of your best referrals. I like all the other ideas you mentioned. Hairdressers, of course. Bartenders are probably not bad to have on the list. Your clergymen, and then anyone else who … Basically anyone who talks to other people is going to be useful as a referral.

So do I pay them some sort of referral fee? How do I thank them for what they’ve done? And is there a difference to that answer when the referral is or isn’t a lawyer?

Lee Rosen:

Well, first of all, these referral fee questions vary by jurisdiction. The state I’m in, in North Carolina where I practice, we don’t have that. It’s not a common custom and the rules don’t facilitate it. And so it’s done in some jurisdictions. And where it’s done, I think if you have to do it, you have to do it. And I’ve talked to lawyers who will say to me, “Well, I don’t refer to this person because they don’t pay the referral fee.” I will tell you, and it’s probably rooted in the fact that I’ve been a lawyer for so long in a state where we don’t really do this, none of it feels right to me. I mean, my friends would not expect me to pay them a referral fee, and I don’t think that would change if we were in a different state with different rules.

And so, I think you’ve got to do what is customary in your jurisdiction, and as you get to know these folks and have a connection with them, you just talk to them about it. I mean, you talk to your friends about issues, this would be just another issue. And so, I don’t have an absolute black or white answer on this question, but it’s not something I’ve ever done. And I would almost feel awkward

Speaker 3:

If

Lee Rosen:

A friend of mine offered to pay me for the fact that I sent them another friend as a referral. And it’s like I was sending them this person because I care about the person I’m referring and I think my friend is the right person for them and money would make that very uncomfortable to me.

Adriana Linares:

I mean, really, they should just send you a case of wine, Lee. I mean, is that just not the nicest thank you that you could get?

Lee Rosen:

Well, it is interesting. No, but you say that, and I think gifts are really important.

Adriana Linares:

Sure.

Lee Rosen:

And you raise a really interesting question because you don’t want to send a gift to someone unless it’s the right gift at the right time. And I’ll tell you a quick story about that. My son has a girlfriend who visited the US for the first time a couple of weeks ago, and she fell in love with Dr. Pepper. And she lives in Thailand. They don’t have Dr. Pepper in Thailand. And so she came over and I had been at a CVS drugstore and bought her one of the little 20 ounce bottles of Dr. Pepper. And when she came in, I gave her the Dr. Pepper. Now this is a gift that cost me what? $1.79 or something. Her eyes lit up when I handed her the Dr. Pepper. And you could tell that she was just thrilled. And I don’t know that she thought it in quite this way, but what happened there was that she knew I had been listening and had been thinking about her and cared about her.

And I accomplished all of that with a $1.79 gift. And I think that Dr. Pepper is so much more powerful than a referral fee in terms of building and maintaining that relationship.

Adriana Linares:

Well, and I think they’re kind of the types of things you would do for your friend, like you said, anyway, if you were thinking about them. And I’m a big gift giver and as much as I love receiving gifts, but for me, it’s definitely one of the ways that I let my friends, my work friends, even clients that I consider friends know that I’m thinking about them all the time. So I don’t disagree with you that that’s an okay way to say thank you, but it’s really just sort of in line with being a good friend and being a referral or referral in a very natural and not uncomfortable way. So I think that’s … I can get behind that. So my next question for you is going to be, again, I’m a new attorney, new solo, maybe not necessarily a new attorney. Do I focus on a local network or do I go sort of boundless where there are no boundaries?

And how do I decide which way to go as far as building my strategic partnerships and my referral networks?

Lee Rosen:

It’s so dependent on your practice area. If you practice family law, then your referral network will largely be local. That doesn’t mean you’re not going to get referrals by joining the American Academy of Matrimonial Lawyers or the International Academy of Matrimonial Lawyers and getting active with that group and building relationships with those people. But most of your referrals are going to come from local folks. If you’re in a very specialized area of intellectual property and you have a limited number of clients that are scattered all over the world as your prospects, well, then your network is going to look very different in that practice area. And you’re going to have to work to get to know people that are in other countries, states, et cetera. And so it’s so incredibly dependent on what you do. One of the lawyers that I refer to does a lot of international child abduction cases.

This lawyer gets referrals from all over the world because there aren’t that many people that specialize in that. And so it really is practice area dependent, but for the majority of folks, it’s going to be local. It’s going to involve picking people up in your car and taking them to lunch.

Adriana Linares:

And what about, how do you feel about social media as a way of getting referrals or becoming well known? Especially, I’m going to ask you generally, but focus for me, if you will, on how you feel about LinkedIn since that seems to be where a lot of lawyers who might not do a lot of social media otherwise tend to hover.

Lee Rosen:

You go back to this idea of 20 referral sources. You want to keep up with those folks in every way you can, whether it’s on LinkedIn or on Facebook or on Twitter or on Instagram, wherever they live, you want to live because you want to be connected to them. And so you want to be liking their pictures on Instagram, harding them, whatever we call it, liking their pictures on Facebook, commenting when they ask a question, whether it’s on LinkedIn or Facebook or wherever, these are your friends. These are people that you’re going to know this month and three months from now and six months from now and a year from now and 10 years and 20 and 30 years from now. So these people will refer to you forever. You want to be in a position to know if they have a child that’s born or a child that graduates from high school or college or whatever.

If a parent dies, you want to be in the loop because you’re going to need to respond to that in some way because these are your friends.

Adriana Linares:

So my next question was going to be, and I think I’m going to sort of self answer it and then you correct me if I guessed wrong, but then ask you a new question. My next question would be, so should I set goals for myself, attend so many events, send so many emails, link up with so many people, send so many letters a week, but I think you’re going to tell me to really just keep focusing on this core 20 group of people and not go crazy trying to grow this big giant network. Am I right?

Lee Rosen:

Yeah, because I

Adriana Linares:

Really like this idea.

Lee Rosen:

If you grow the big giant network, you’re not going to really have any depth with people. And I can’t think, I’d rather poke my finger in my eye than go to a networking event. I mean, those things are horrible and what you want to do is have people that … These are people that you’re going to attend their funeral or they’re going to attend yours. I guess you can’t do both, but you want to build real relationships. And not only does it generate business, it makes you a happier person. It gives you a better life. Everything about this is a win. So yeah, I would focus on that core group of people you need to refer to you.

Adriana Linares:

And I think this really might be for a lot of new attorneys, a totally different way of thinking about this because everything you read out there is always network, network, network, connect, connect, connect, tell people you’re a lawyer, get business cards and give business cards. This seems like a much more palatable, manageable way of saying, look, I’m going to … I might have 250 close friends, but if you really hone in on those 20 and say, “Look, I really consider you a super special friend and I trust you to send me anyone who might be able to use my resources and my legal skills and I’m going to do the same for you. ” Or maybe you don’t even have to say that. I mean, just by being a good lawyer, a good friend that has integrity, that business is going to come to you from that small network.

Lee Rosen:

You are way ahead of me. That is exactly right.You’re exchanging value, but it’s not about you give me a referral, I give you a referral or you give me a referral, I give you a fee. It’s about trusting one another, being connected and helping one another grow our businesses over time in whatever way we can. And my referral sources, I’ve done things like help them to meet a congressman that could get their child recommended for a military academy or introduce them to my dentist because they weren’t happy with theirs. I mean, there’s so many ways you add value to the lives of your friends.

Adriana Linares:

That’s such a refreshing and great approach to this whole thing. I think I’m going to change my whole system.

Lee Rosen:

There you

Adriana Linares:

Go. I really like it. So let me ask you this, if you had three takeaways that you wished everyone who listened to this podcast would take away, what were the main three, and especially ones that you, like you said, you’ve sort of learned through the school of hard knocks after years of experience. What are the three most important things when it comes to building this referral system?

Lee Rosen:

First of all, you have got to be interested in other people. None of this works if you’re not legitimately interested in learning about and connecting with other human beings, okay? And that’s just critical. It’s about them, it’s not about you. It’s about doing things to be helpful to them and valuable for them, not about you. And so that’s number one. Number two is that these 20 people, you need to be deliberate and maybe it feels calculating, but figure out who the right 20 people are. In my world, a real estate lawyer is worth a lot more to me than a criminal defense lawyer. And I know from experience, they generate more referrals. And so be careful about building the 20. You don’t have unlimited time to do this. You need to pick the right people and refine that network. And then finally, you need to do it.

Thinking about networking, thinking about building these connections doesn’t do anything for you. You’ve got to get on the phone right now and make a phone call to set up a lunch. And it may well, it likely will be to someone you have never met before and that feels awkward and uncomfortable, but you’ve got to do it. You’ve got to take action. The first time you make a phone call, you know what’s going to happen? You’re going to be successful. It’s going to work. I agree. And that makes each call easier going down the road, but you got to take action.

Adriana Linares:

I agree with you. I find that people more and more, and I know it’s because of the internet and social media, they’re much more open to just meeting new peoples. I mean, and I’m not talking about in the dating world, of course, that’s a whole different conversation there. But just here in our professional worlds, it’s amazing how much looser and easier it’s become to just email somebody out of the blue or just shoot them a direct message over Twitter, even a public message sometimes by way of Twitter or Facebook or LinkedIn. It’s amazing how people have opened up and it just made it so much easier for even the most shy professional to be able to say, “I’d really like to take you to lunch and talk to you about this or that. ” And you shouldn’t be afraid that you’re going to get shot down.

People are just, it’s a different world.

Lee Rosen:

It works. That’s right.

Adriana Linares:

It works. It was fun to hear Lee again. And let me remind everybody that sometimes advice is absolutely timeless. That’s a little bit of an older episode we visited, but that advice from Lee Rosen about creating a referral network in terms of building a solid relationship, I hope it prompted some good ideas for growing your firm through your network. This episode is part of the new Solo First Flight Series presented by Alps Insurance. I’m joined by Rio Lane, director of strategic partnerships at ALPS. Hey Rio.

Rio Laine:

Hey, Adriana. Thanks for having me back.

Adriana Linares:

Always a pleasure. Lee Rosen has had a very, very successful life and law firm and his advice should be taken to heart. And I will tell you, apart from Lee, and it’s been a long time since he and I talked over and over and over again when I talked to or interview successful attorneys or just talk to them in my day-to-day legal technology consulting world, the number one way that attorneys get new clients is consistently through referrals and having a good referral network. So when we revisited with Lee, his whole point is you got to have a referral network. You only need about 20 people. He doesn’t call it a network, he calls them his friends. And I’m just thinking like, “Okay, this is cool, great advice.” But one thing we didn’t talk about, and of course I want to talk about with you is, are there things we should consider when taking in a potential new client or a lead from our referral network?

Are there any red flags or are we just like going to eat those leads right up and they’re just going to be great?

Rio Laine:

That’s an excellent question. So I mean, obviously, I’m director of strategic partnerships, so I love relationships. I love relationship building and I love his approach to this. And I think the reality is, and something that we see at ALPS over and over again is that lawyers who invest in those relationships, they end up with better quality leads coming from them.

Adriana Linares:

It’s

Rio Laine:

Pretty typical that your friends are going to send you clients that are usually good clients and not problem clients, right? But just because a good client was referred to you from a friend doesn’t mean that there aren’t a few things you need to consider when taking in that referral. So number one, I say this over and over again, documentation. Document that referral. Who did that person come to you from? Write it down and also make it clear to that client what the terms of this interaction, this relationship are. Send your own engagement letter. Do not depend on the friend who’s referring them to you to establish any sort of working relationship, client relationship with that client on your behalf. That is not something that should ever happen. So just making sure that you’ve documented where that person’s coming from and that you are sending your own engagement letter and you are making it very clear who is representing that person and what the terms of that working relationship are.

Those are two things to definitely keep in mind.

Adriana Linares:

I think most attorneys think about logging their leads for reporting purposes, like maybe they’re doing marketing through the internet, but then they’re also getting leads. I think it’s a great reminder or idea to also, if you aren’t doing those things, here’s why you should, for malpractice reasons, like just keep everything documented. I really loved his Dr. Pepper story, $1.79 and a lifetime of goodwill, but you and I both know that gifts can get tricky. So give us some advice and some sage words when it comes to drawing the line between thoughtful and reportable. What do we have to think about there? Yes,

Rio Laine:

Absolutely. Okay. So a really good rule of thumb when it comes to giving something in exchange for a referral, like a little thank you is if you would hesitate to mention that in an email to your bar Association, it’s probably not an appropriate thing to offer as a thank you. So I mean, a large monetary gift or something that’s not, not appropriate, but something, just easy little things like a little thank you card, a little five, $10 gift card to a coffee shop. “Hey, have your next coffee on me. Thank you very much. Little things like that are totally appropriate. When you’re in doubt, you can always ask your bar Association as well. They’ve got a lot of good insights and information about that, but always check it out. And yeah, if it’s something that you wouldn’t want other people to know, then it’s not an appropriate thing to send.

Adriana Linares:

So we’ve got a network we’re building of friends. We are sending them appropriate thank you gestures or gifts that are not going to raise any red flags or seem egregious in nature. So those are two good pieces of advice. Talk to us a little bit about when does a strategic partnership like that become too friendly? I mean, obviously there’s a lot of attorneys that are very good friends with other attorneys. So is there just anything we should think about when it comes to making those friendships more enjoyable, keeping them in professional mode? And how do you politely decline a referral? That’s another idea or another question for you. Let’s say we are pretty good friends. I don’t want it, or maybe I don’t want any of referrals anymore. Do we document those too?

Rio Laine:

I mean, yeah, document everything. I know it sounds tedious, but you never know. That’s an interesting question about declining a referral. I mean, if you’re friends with someone, I think you can be honest. You can say,” I don’t think that this referral’s the right fit for my practice. I’m maybe feeling like I have enough workload on my plate right now. I just don’t have the bandwidth for it. I really appreciate that you’ve helped me in this way, but at the moment, maybe we can pause on that. ” There’s a lot of ways. I mean, lawyers are good with words. That’s their job, right? There’s a lot of nice ways to say that. Yeah. And I mean, I wouldn’t be offended if someone said to me, ” I don’t have the bandwidth for these leads anymore. Thank you so much. “I mean, I think that’s a perfectly reasonable thing and boundary to establish, particularly when you’re trying to protect your work-life balance.

Adriana Linares:

This whole conversation just made me think about something else that I recently had a conversation with, who’s an attorney who’s a friend of mine. He is in two different states … Sorry, he’s not in two different states. Well, I mean, he could be. He could be in a happy state of mind, but no, no. He’s licensed in two states. One of which he lives in is very active and has a good referral network and a good community around. The other state requires him to have a backup attorney, which I think is so interesting and something we’ve never talked about. Our backup attorney … Okay, first of all, if you haven’t heard of what your backup attorney is, Rio, tell us, what is a backup attorney? Are they required? And if they’re not required, should we have one anyway and why?

Rio Laine:

Yeah, great question. So your backup attorney is the person who will take over things and wrap up your practice in the event that something happens to you.

Adriana Linares:

This is like your law firm’s BFF, like your law firm has a BFF. And this is the person or the firm that you would call on if your law firm is sick or dies.

Rio Laine:

Yes. Yes, exactly. Or if you are sick or die.

Adriana Linares:

Yeah.

Rio Laine:

Yeah. Yeah. So they’re the person who will sort out all of those pieces if you are not able to. And they’re not required in most states, but highly, highly, highly recommended. I mean, I think there are endless stories about all of the chaos that happens if a lawyer passes on and there is nobody to take over or nobody knows what’s going on with their firm. Some Someone has to step in and deal with those things. Somebody has to wrap all of that up. And usually the best person for that is another lawyer. But if you don’t have anyone there, well then everyone’s kind of just left there looking at each other going, “Well, what do we do now?” And that’s typically when aBar Association will step in and they have to assign someone to handle that and

Adriana Linares:

It’s a big mess. I was wondering what happens. So aBar Association hops in. Okay. So let’s say I am building my network. I have these friends and I also, while I’m at it, want to find an attorney who can help me with that. Is this where I pick my BFF that I went to law school with who’s in a completely different area of law? Or is it going to be better for me to sort of pull from that network of attorneys that might have a complimentary or if not the same practice as I do? Give us some ideas for what happens and how do I prepare my clients for my illness? Let’s assume nobody ever dies, but maybe you’re sick for six months. You got to have a little surgery, you’re going to be out. And do I disclose this to my clients in an engagement letter?

Help me. This is a topic we’ve never talked about.

Rio Laine:

Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. So I would say that having someone designated as a backup attorney is better than no one.

So if you don’t have anyone who’s in the same practice, it’s better to have someone instead of no one. Ideally, someone who’s familiar with your practice area is amazing. But at the end of the day, the things they’re going to be dealing with are likely wrapping up trust disbursements, the paperwork, all those parts of it. So having someone’s better than no one. In terms of letting your clients know, absolutely. Coming up with a plan to communicate to your clients and set those expectations of, “Hey, I’m not feeling my best. I have to step away for a little while. This person is going to be the person that is going to take over my affairs. This is how you contact them. This is what to expect next. What are next steps, et cetera, et cetera.” And the way that you communicate that to your clients, maybe you send them an email.

I mean, obviously sometimes you get sick after you’ve sent an engagement letter. Sometimes you don’t foresee those things coming, but it is a good thing to maybe put in an onboarding package for your new clients. If something happens to me, this will be the person just so you know. But if you’re looking for help coming up with a succession plan, so at ALPS, we have an entire succession planning guide. We have resources on our website. They were actually put together by a gentleman in West Virginia who has been pulled into several law firms where he has been designated as the person who will help clean things up. He has a wealth of experience. He helped us put that together in conjunction with us. So definitely a good place to check out. And also bar Associations, they have a lot of good resources. And it’s kind of one of those things.

Nobody wants to think about that. Nobody wants to think about the bad things that could happen, but it’s really, really important because it creates a lot of chaos for your clients and for everybody involved when you don’t have a plan in place.

Adriana Linares:

Well, these are all very good pieces of advice, not just from listening to Lee and reminding us how important being interested in people is, picking the right group of attorneys and other legal professionals to surround yourself with, and really just getting it done. So I want to thank you again, Rio, as always for joining us and reminding us about all these important things that we want to do to help protect our practices. And of course, do the best by our clients. Remind everybody where they can find, friend, or follow you.

Rio Laine:

Yeah, absolutely. So as always, reach out, don’t be shy. I’d love to connect, love to answer questions. You can contact me at [email protected]. So Lane is L-A-I-N-E and Alps like the mountains. And if you want to check out Alps, find us at www.Alpsinsurance.com. Check out our resources page. We’ve got lots of great information on there. Yeah, don’t be shy. Reach out.

Adriana Linares:

Thanks so much, Rio. And thanks everyone for listening to another episode of News Solo. We’ll see you next time.

Announcer:

I’ve been running from 9:00 to 5:00 my tongue for all this time. Won’t let anyone club me show. I was thinking this was the way to go and you put up your puppet show as a cheese too Light.

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