Time to Change Your Lame Logo; Stop Thinking Like a Lawyer; and “Deep Cuts with Steve Seckler”

Episode Notes

Transcript

[Music]

Male: It’s a Legal Toolkit with Jared Correia. With guests, Steve Seckler. We play Deep Cuts with Steve Seckler. And then Jared lays out his ideal vision of modern business attire. But first, it’s time to standup and cheer, party people. It’s your host, Jared Correia.

Jared D. Correia: Welcome back, friends, romans, countrymen. Lend me your ears. You’re in for another episode of the Legal Toolkit Podcast. This one’s going to knock your socks off. And yes, it’s still called the Legal Toolkit Podcast, even though I still can’t figure out how to plug in my cordless drill. Honestly, it’s really annoying. I’m your host, Jared Correia. You’re stuck with me, because Eric Morecambe and Ernie Wise were busy goofing on The Beatles Anthology. Now, that’s a Deep Cut. I’m the CEO of Gideon Software, Inc. We build chat bots so law firms can convert more leads and conversational document assembly tools so law firms can build documents faster and more accurately. Schedule a demo, so check out our new esignature tool at gideonlegal.com. I’m the CEO of Red Cave Law Firm Consulting, a business management consulting service for attorneys and bar associations. Find us online at redcavelegal.com.

Now, before we get to our interview today with Steve Seckler of Seckler Attorney Coaching, where we’ll talk about how to avoid your worst lawyerly instincts. Let’s talk a little bit about logos. So I talked about logos before on the podcast, but like always in connection with something else, like website development or marketing. I want to give logos thereto. So you may not know this, but I’m obsessed with logos, especially sports logos. My son was working on a school project the other day and I told him I used to sit in school and doodle sports logos, and I could still do a lot of them. Now, most of those are from the 80s, but I’m old. When I was a kid, my dad opened a sports store and he had all these hats everywhere, like massive racks of hats and uniforms. And I loved it because I got to see all these different logos and I got to swipe a few hats for myself. It was great.

Now, to my wife’s tremendous chagrin, I have a large stand with about 125 baseball hats in it in my mud room. Some of these are like really old from like, the 1920s. Some of these are from like, the negro leagues and the federal leagues. Some of these are more modern. But I’m into logos, as you can see. And the reason I think this is interesting is as much as I love baseball, football, basketball, hockey, sports logos, I could talk about that all day. Most law firm logos are just shit. They’re terrible.

So here’s how law firm logos work. Because as a law firm, you’re required to find the five or six people you know with the hardest to pronounce last names in the world to join in a business and then name your business after those people’s last names. Usually, the logo has the initials of the last names of the partner. The JBL Law Group, the DIV Law Center, whatever. Initials, really creative shit there, guys, come on. What else do you see in law firm logos? Oh, just Doric columns, court steps, maybe a person walking on those court steps, probably a lawyer, scales of justice, lady justice, books. Don’t let me forget books. Oh, and book cases, like really stuff that is going to resonate with a modern client who’s going to be like, yeah, get me to this dude who reads books and doesn’t search for stuff online. And then the color palette is interesting as well. Right out of Bob Ross, right? Blue, white, and gray. That’s it is.

How do you fix that? Now, one of the great things that happened post pandemic, and I bitched about this on the podcast before, is almost every jurisdiction in the United States is now allowing lawyers to use brand names. And that was decidedly not the case before. So what’s a brand name? Burger King. Fox television. Netflix. Amazon. Lawyers can now use those in pretty much every jurisdiction. So that’s a little bit different, because now, if you couldn’t do that before, you can tie the name of your law firm to some kind of concept which can be whimsical. You don’t have to be The Johnson Law Firm anymore, or use your initials any longer. You could be Hummingbird Law or some crazy shit like that. So start there. Think about different concepts. Make it unique, authentic, interesting.

(00:05:00)

Do something different, anything different. What else could you do? I don’t know. Pick different colors. I’ve looked at law firm logos in the last week or so with some clients I’ve been working with that feature dark green, burnt orange, copper. Now, those are some fucking colors, let me tell you. If you want some interesting logo design concepts to potentially breeze some life into your own logo, you want to have like three things when it comes to a logo. You want to have the logo itself, which is the image. You want to have a word mark, which is the business name spelt out in certain script and color. And then you want to have the combination of those two things, the logo and wordmark.

And by the way, you also want to have a different version of your logo for all the channels that that logo is going to be used in; your website, social media, et cetera, et cetera. Anybody who’s good at logo design is going to do that stuff for you. So separating yourself, thinking of experimental concepts, that’s where it’s at. And so, as I said before, take a look at some of those really cool baseball logos out there. One of my favorite baseball teams in terms of logo design is the Arizona Diamondbacks. And they’re a really interesting use case, because they’ve got a hat with an A on it for Arizona, which looks like a snake biting down on something that’s got fangs and everything. And then it’s got a really unique southwestern design. And then they had this other hat which had the D for Diamondbacks on it, which was like a curled up, rattlesnake biting, really cool logo concept. And then they also had the snake biting a baseball. Like, this is my jam, in case you didn’t notice.

So you could think of creative ways to design your business logo by now. Don’t fall down in surprise here, but potentially looking at other businesses that aren’t law firms. I had a friend of mine back in the day who had a non-compete law firm, and he was like, all these lawyer websites suck. I need to figure out a new way to build a website. So he looked at all kinds of different business and he’s like, “Architecture firms. They have really good websites. That’s the way to go. I’m going to build my law firm website, like an architecture firm website. And it was super unique. People would always comment on it”, and it was one of the factors that caused people to choose them as a lawyer. So get inspired.

I’ll share my hat collection with you. Just give me a call. So I said “logistics”, right? This is easy to do when you start a law firm, right? Because you’re working with unmolded clay. You can do whatever you want. But you can also revise your brand. Like do a grand reopening. Tell people you got a new logo. Tell people you launched a new website with a totally different color scheme. All of it’s good, and it’ll get you noticed too. Even if you’ve been in practice for a decade or two. Your business is never too old to start something new in terms of branding. And it might give you the charge you need.

So a website designer digital marketing agency would be able to do a logo design for you. They may be able to provide you contractors, or they may do it as part of something else they’re building for you, like a website or an SEO campaign. If you’re not doing anything like that, where you could find somebody to build a logo for you in conjunction with this other project. You could hire a contractor directly. You can find people like that on five or up work thumbtack services like that.

But I tell you, start by doing it yourself. Whenever I start a new business, because I’m like a logo person, probably figured that out by now. I’ll always design the logo on a napkin for whatever reason. I always seem to be at like a lunch or dinner and I’m like, I’m going to put together a logo for a new business. I’ve done that both times, I’ve started businesses. I’d probably do it if I started a business again. It’s just fun to mess around with concepts. I take that. I draw it on a piece of paper like I did when I was a kid. I hand it off to more talented people, and they make it sing. So mess around with some concepts, let your freak flag fly and get yourself a new logo that doesn’t suck.

[Music]

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Jared D. Correia: Okay, everybody, let’s get back to it. We’ve got the meat in the middle of this legal podcasting sandwich. Today’s meat is kangaroo. Because why not? And, yeah, it’s true, people actually eat kangaroo, which is kind of fucked because I don’t know how they get the meat. I feel like a kangaroo would just kick the shit out of me, honestly. But here we are on another show. Let’s talk to our guest. That’s what you’re here for, right? So we have today making his third appearance on the Legal Toolkit Podcast, which I think may be a record. It’s Steve Seckler, the president of Seckler Attorney Coaching. Steve, how are you?

Stephen E. Seckler: I am doing great, Jared. And I am honored to be here for the third time. And you were on my podcast twice, and so now, I’ve got to reciprocate.

Jared D. Correia: That’s all right. No pressure. I will note, however, that this is the first time you’re going to be. I don’t want to use the term subjected to. But you’ll be appearing on the Rump Roast, so that’ll be fun also.

Stephen E. Seckler: I’m a little nervous.

Jared D. Correia: That’s all right. So an initiation thing. Everybody’s going to go through it. Okay. Before we get to that, I want to say congratulations, because your son is in law school, and I guess like, is that worthy of congratulations, or is a lawyer yourself who’s transitioned out? Is that like joyful for you? Dreadful? A combination of both?

Stephen E. Seckler: Well, my attitude about it is I just want my kids to do something that they feel good about. I did not give my son a lot of career advice. The career advice that he took for me was work as a paralegal first, which he did. The second piece of advice he took for me was make sure you go to a law school that gives you a lot of money. He is doing that. And if he’s happy with what he’s doing, I’m happy.

Jared D. Correia: That’s a smart way to play it, though, honestly. Avoiding the student. That’s a good idea. So, yeah, I guess congratulations is in order. Seems like you’re both happy about that. So you wrote this article recently, I think — correct me if I’m wrong, GPSolo Magazine from the American Bar Association, is that right?

Stephen E. Seckler: Technically, it’s GPSolo eReport. So it’s the online edition.

Jared D. Correia: Right. Okay. And in that, you were talking about how lawyer should stop thinking, like, lawyers, like, all the time, especially in terms of business management, which obviously I think is true, because as we both consult with law firms, that gets in the way of doing things with respect to business management. So broadly speaking, can you tell me what that means? And then we’ll kind of dive into the different pieces of what you wrote.

Stephen E. Seckler: Sure. I just want to give credit to Dr. Larry Richards, who is a PhD who started his career as a lawyer. In the 1980s, he decided that wasn’t a good fit for him, and since that time, he’s done more research on lawyer personalities than any other human on the planet. And what he has realized is that lawyers really are different. We do have different qualities, different characteristics, and many of those characteristics make us really good at giving advice to our clients. But they can get in the way when we’re trying to build our practice, when we’re trying to advance our careers, or when we’re trying to manage or lead other lawyers.

Jared D. Correia: Right. I think that is largely true. And in this article, you listed, what, like, seven different things, but there’s a whole host of other items that you could hit at some point in the future.

Stephen E. Seckler: It’s a long list. I mean, everything is basically sort of in general, because not every lawyer has every one of these qualities, but there are certain characteristics that are more common and much more common in some instances in the attorney population.

Jared D. Correia: Yeah, I think that makes a lot of sense. Okay. Let’s hit these things kind of like one by one and see how many we can get through. The first one that you kind of note and which popped out to me, was linear thinking and how lawyers do that. And I mean, I’m a former lawyer, but I think I do a lot of that too, honestly. So what does that mean and how do lawyers utilize it, and then what can they do instead?

Stephen E. Seckler: Well, lawyers are very structured thinkers, because the projects that they work on have a beginning, middle, and an end.

Jared D. Correia: Right.

Stephen E. Seckler: If you get a case, you’re trying to get somewhere, you’re trying to do the discovery, you’re trying to either settle the case or get through the trial. If you’re doing a deal, you’re trying to gather all the documents, negotiate all the agreements, and get the closing done. Those are really good qualities when you’re practicing law. But if you’re trying to build relationships, relationships are not linear. And again, you need to be very relational if you want to generate referrals. People generate referrals. People get their referrals from other professionals who they know, like and trust. That doesn’t happen by going from point A to point B to point C.

Jared D. Correia: Right. So that’s a referral marketing thing. I got it. Okay. Now, closely aligned to that is this notion of analytical thinking. And lawyers do this all the time, but also that can be bad for business too. You want to talk about that a little bit?

Stephen E. Seckler: Sure. So analysis paralysis is something that a lot of lawyers fall into, and we are very analytical in our thinking, in our communication styles, but people don’t want to know what the analysis is. I have a client who right now, he’s getting some feedback from some of the people he works with.

00:15:00

He’s in-house, that they don’t want to know what the statutes are. They don’t want to know what the regulations are. They just want to know what to do. So it’s impacting what people think of his ability to represent the company.

Jared D. Correia: I see this all the time. A lot of lawyers will write something up, because I work with a bunch of lawyers like you. Sometimes I hire lawyers for stuff that I need, and I’m always like, “Oh my god, there’s like, so much information in here. Can you just summarize it for me? We need Cliff Notes for this.” So I think that probably plays a part into this as well. Like, lawyers want to cover the bases of everything, and everybody else just wants an overview. Is that fair to say?

Stephen E. Seckler: Yes. And again, relationships are not built on analysis. People have feelings. People have emotions. And if you focus too much on the analytics, you may be missing how people are reacting to things, what people want to hear about. You’re not communicating in a way that people can listen.

Jared D. Correia: Yeah. What I think is interesting is it sounds like you’re kind of talking about both client relationships and also those kind of semi business, semi personal relationships that lead to referrals. Both of those things could be affected by changing the way the lawyers think.

Stephen E. Seckler: And I would add to that once you move into a leadership role. A lot of times, lawyers go from being individual contributors to either chairing a department, being a managing partner, or they go in-house, and maybe they become general counsel and they’ve never really had to manage anyone. And the communication skills that you need to do those things effectively are very different than being an individual contributor. I mean, lawyers are risk averse. Lawyers are skeptical. Lawyers really value their autonomy. They have a high sense of urgency. And if somebody’s really upset with the way a matter is going, they don’t want to be sort of pushed up against the wall, like, “Come on, get me the documents. Get me the documents.”

Jared D. Correia: Right. The autonomy thing is interesting. So you find that lawyers who like their own autonomy and then move to a managerial role, that’s a big challenge for them.

Stephen E. Seckler: It’s a challenge for them because the people that they’re managing have a high sense of autonomy.

Jared D. Correia: I see what you’re saying, yeah.

Stephen E. Seckler: So there was a book that was written years ago. I’m forgetting the name of the author. A good management guru who’s worked with lots of professional services firms. And he calls it first among equals. And his argument is basically that lawyers who are trying to be managing partners, they are leading with influence, not with authority. Like, you can’t really tell a lawyer what to do.

Jared D. Correia: Another lawyer.

Stephen E. Seckler: Yes.

Jared D. Correia: So that is interesting because that brings about something else you talked about in your article, and I think this is, like, a really big deal for lawyers. Like this is true of probably every lawyer I met, is like, lawyers are there to solve problems for people and have the answer for everything. So they always have to put up this front that they’re the smartest person in the room. That’s absolutely a lawyer thing. And obviously, as you talked about, that doesn’t play well into business management or setting up interpersonal relationships. So how do lawyers get over that? Because I think that’s really hard for them.

Stephen E. Seckler: It is really hard because lawyers are being paid a lot of money. And it’s not just that we like to think of ourselves as the smartest person in the room because quite honestly, sometimes we are, at least academically.

Jared D. Correia: Right.

Stephen E. Seckler: But we are being paid high hourly rates. So we want our clients to think we know what we’re talking about. So sometimes we think that talking is what’s going to impress the clients. But really, what’s going to impress the clients is being a great listener and asking questions and asking and what else and what else, and finding out really not what the presenting problem is, but what the underlying problem is. So it’s said in medicine, prescription without diagnosis is malpractice. And it’s the same thing in the law. So lawyers are not always such great listeners. But being a great listener, I would argue, makes you a great lawyer. And it certainly makes you much better at relationship building, which, again, I go back to. Will help you build your practice, will help you advance your career, and will help you be much more effective as a manager or a leader.

Jared D. Correia: Yeah. I think that’s a really good point. Like lawyers and other people, not just lawyers like people, need to feel like they got to fill up the air in a room and just keep talking. I think it’s a really difficult skill to develop, to just sit back and listen to people. One of the other things you alluded to before is that lawyers are skeptics, which I think, as I’m sure you do as well, that’s part of the job, right? You need to uncover the risks. You need to prove things. Everything the lawyer does, in many cases is based on case precedent that has been done before. So how do lawyers get out of that skeptical line of thinking to improve their marketing, their business management? What does that look like?

Stephen E. Seckler: So I just want to underscore the fact that you’re being paid to be skeptical, to not take on face value what the opposing counsel is saying.

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That’s really important.

Jared D. Correia: Yes.

Stephen E. Seckler: But skepticism is a reciprocal quality. So if you’re skeptical with me, I’m going to be skeptical with you. And a lot of relationships are based on trust. And if you’re skeptical with somebody, that’s going to impact their ability to trust you. So a referral partner, an accountant, is not going to trust you as much if you’re always questioning what they’re saying.

Jared D. Correia: For sure. And I think it’s interesting that when you’re coaching people, because you consult with attorneys, you coach them up and talk about these things, presumably. Do you find they’re doing that to you too? Are they skeptical of you at the start of the relationship as the relationship goes on? And do you find it hard getting them out of that shell when they talk to you also?

Stephen E. Seckler: Well, they are when we start, but not when I’m done with them.

Jared D. Correia: Well done. Hey, I set you up for that one. Okay. I think we can hit maybe a few more concepts, which I’m also interested in. One of which you also referenced before, which is this urgency thing. And obviously, I don’t think this is just true of attorneys. This is also true of pretty much everybody at this point, every business person. Everybody’s got urgency addiction. They want to do the thing that they’re doing next as quickly as they can. You get a notification on your phone, you got to look at it. And that’s not a lawyer problem, but it affects lawyers as well. So how do you get lawyers to get over the hump on that and change their attitude?

Stephen E. Seckler: I get lawyers to make change in general by getting them to focus on what is it that they’re trying to accomplish. What’s the goal in the future? You don’t change behavior by scolding people. Associates, especially larger law firms, are not going to be happy if everything that they get from a partner is considered urgent. Like at some point, they’re just going to get burned out. So when I talk to the partners, well, you have some turnover going on. Do you want to retain your talent? Because if you tell your associates that everything that you put in front of them has to be done by tomorrow and it’s not really true, they’re going to get really tired of that and they’re going to up and leave. So that’s the way to get people to focus on making change. Like, what’s the outcome that you want in the future?

Jared D. Correia: Yeah. And there’s some emotional intelligence involved in that as well. It’s not just saying that, okay, we’re not going to have everything be due in 10 hours, but also understanding how to manage your people and what their feelings are about this. Does that make sense? That tracks.

Stephen E. Seckler: It absolutely makes sense. But again, I have to keep going back to the fact that there are things in the law, there are matters that are urgent. In fact, the stakes can be very high. You don’t file a brief by a deadline. You could blow a statute of limitations.

Jared D. Correia: Right. For sure. So part of this is also like figuring out what’s actually urgent versus what’s not really urgent. Do you assist lawyers with that as well? How do people make that happen? Because I think for most lawyers, they’re trained that every legal issue is an urgent issue that they have to deal with immediately.

Stephen E. Seckler: So again, having them focus on what is it they want to do if they really want to accomplish a lot, it’s important to kind of triage what needs to be done, because if you’re bouncing from A to B, to C to D to E, you’re not going to be effective at anything. So it’s a question of time management. It’s also a question of getting people to sort of pick away at the things that are not urgent, but important. So Stephen Covey talks about that. You’ve got things that are urgent important, urgent not important, and then the other quadrants as well. And getting people, getting my clients to focus on things that are important, like relationship building so they can eventually get referrals from their referral partners. That’s important stuff. So getting that on the calendar, so that they’re doing it several times a month and not just sort of waiting till their desk is clear. Those are things, because then it does become urgent. Like they’re trying to make partner and they don’t have a book of business.

Jared D. Correia: Yeah. And it is a tough balance, for sure. So you talked about this a little bit before in terms of how lawyers are skeptical, but this whole risk aversion thing that they have. Like, lawyers are trained to spot risk, calculate risk, and then not just in terms of business relationships, but in terms of running a business. You have to have a little bit of a higher risk tolerance than a lawyer would to do that effectively. And that’s a mindset shift for a lot of lawyers as well, right?

Stephen E. Seckler: Absolutely. If businesses were run the way lawyers think, nothing would ever get created or done.

Jared D. Correia: Yes, that is true.

Stephen E. Seckler: I mean, a lot of the greatest inventions in the world were, like look at Amazon. That’s not exactly an invention, but it was losing money for two decades, I think. So just having the vision of, okay, well, this is a risk that we could tolerate because we’re capturing more and more and more and more market share, and by the way, our web services are going to make us a lot of money. So now, Amazon is one of the most profitable businesses in the world, but it took somebody that was willing to take on that risk to be able to get there.

(00:25:03)

And then you need lawyers to manage the contracts that helps the business run in a way that they weren’t taking excessive risk.

Jared D. Correia: Right. And there’s probably a middle ground for lawyers where they can be not so risk averse as they are right now, but take on a little bit more risk and maybe have more success in business if they’re willing to experiment. I want to hit one last thing with you, which is this notion of attorneys as salespeople. I think we’ve even talked about this before, maybe on this show, maybe as many as 10 years ago, but the same problem still seems to exist, which is that lawyers don’t view themselves as salespeople, which is kind of detrimental to them getting business.

Stephen E. Seckler: Absolutely. So that’s a matter of career identity, personal identity. We didn’t go to law school to become salespeople. We would have gone to business school. But what I get my clients thinking about is that the lawyers that tend to be happiest in private practice are the lawyers that have their own clients. Secondly, actually selling legal services is not like being a used car salesman. It does take time. It does take time to cultivate leads. It does take time by investing in relationships to get the referrals that you want so you don’t have to be a high pressure salesperson. In fact, that’s probably ineffective. If you could find out ways to be helpful to people over time, you can build a practice.

Jared D. Correia: I think that’s an important point. There are professional salespeople out there, but lawyers wouldn’t necessarily view themselves as, like, professional salespeople or even have a notion that there’s such a thing as a professional salesperson. So that’s part of this, too, right? Lawyers kind of think it’s unprofessional to sell, right?

Stephen E. Seckler: Yeah, it’s dirty. I don’t want somebody to think that I’m selling. I keep coming back to the use cars. But that’s sort of like the quintessential vision of what we don’t want to be. We’re intellectual, we studied law. We’re above that. But we’re only above that if we have clients.

Jared D. Correia: Right. Steve, Thank you. This is a fun 15 minutes. And everybody will have more with Steve and the Rump Roast momentarily. So we’ll take one final sponsor break so you can hear more about what our sponsor companies and their latest service offerings can do for your law firm. Then stay tuned for that Rump Roast. It’s even more supple than the roast beast.

[Music]

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Jared D. Correia: Welcome to the rear end of the Legal Toolkit, everybody. That’s right. It’s the Rump Roast. It’s a grab bag of short form topics, all of my choosing. Why do I get to pick? Because I’m the host. Steve, welcome back. How are you?

Stephen E. Seckler: As I said earlier in the show, I’m a little nervous, but I’m excited to have made it to the Rump Roast.

Jared D. Correia: You did it. We’re here. Okay. Last time we talked, you may not remember this, but the Legal Toolkit never forgets. I asked you for some James Taylor of Deep Cuts because we’re both big James Taylor fans and you were like, “Oh, fire and rain and country road.” And I was like, “Wait a second. Those were huge hits.” Now, I think you just misheard my question, but I’m deciding to build a segment out of this. So welcome to Deep Cuts with Steve Seckler. So let me tell you how it works. We’re going to ask you some trivia questions, which I know you’ll really enjoy. About really obscure songs and albums.

Stephen E. Seckler: I hope these are yes or no questions.

Jared D. Correia: Steve has his palm on his forehead. And we’ll give you some multiple choice to help you out along the way. Are you ready?

Stephen E. Seckler: Oh, if it’s multiple choice, I’m in.

Jared D. Correia: You got this. Okay. What is the best selling record album of all time? The Eagles, Their greatest hits 1971 to 1975? Michael Jackson, Thriller or the Eagles again Hotel California. And just so you know, these are the top three biggest selling albums of all time. Who you got?

(00:30:00)

Stephen E. Seckler: Thriller.

Jared D. Correia: Yes, correct. Correct. I would have said the Eagles Grace disc, because I thought that was the greatest selling album previously, but it is actually Thriller. 51.2 million records sold. Pretty impressive. So, as you can see, we went with obscure albums, but we were messing around a little bit with that. These are actually really popular things. Okay, next one. You’re doing great so far. One for one. Who is the most popular artist on Spotify? Is it Ed Sheeran, Taylor Swift or The Weekend?  And those are also top three.

Stephen E. Seckler: Oh, it’s definitely Taylor Swift.

Jared D. Correia: I would have thought that as well. But it is not.

Stephen E. Seckler: Ed Sheeran?

Jared D. Correia: It’s The Weekend. Its’ The Weekend.

Stephen E. Seckler: What?

Jared D. Correia: Yes.

Stephen E. Seckler: I want a recount.

Jared D. Correia: I was surprised to hear this as well. I thought it was, like, going to be Taylor Swift. Like, far and away. The Weekend’s got 95.57 million streams. Taylor Swift has 81.3 million, and Ed Sheeran has 81.48 million. So surprise, surprise. All right. Let’s keep it. We’ll do three more quick questions. Without googling it, how long is Stairway to Heaven? 7 minutes and 55 seconds. 7 minutes and 41 seconds or 7 minutes and 59 seconds. And I did not know this.

Stephen E. Seckler: Oh, come on. Seriously?

Jared D. Correia: Yeah. You got a 33% chance. 7:55, 7:41, 7:59.

Stephen E. Seckler: Well, you always try to answer with the middle answer. I mean, that’s the standard way to answer any multiple choice question.

Jared D. Correia: Yes.

Stephen E. Seckler: I’ll go with the middle one.

Jared D. Correia: And that’s why I made it the first choice.

Stephen E. Seckler: Okay.

Jared D. Correia: It’s actually 7:55, which I did not know. I would have guessed in the sixes, honestly. All right. We’re doing good here. I feel like. Two more. What Beatle’s song spent the most weeks at number one on the US Billboard Charts? Hey, Jude, I want To Hold Your Hand or Can’t Buy Me Love? And those, by the way, are also the top three.

Stephen E. Seckler: Can’t buy me love.

Jared D. Correia: That’s a good guess. However, that is the lowest of the three. That was number one for five weeks. I Want to Hold Your Hand was number one for seven weeks, knocked out by another Beatle’s song. Interesting enough, I think she loves you. And Hey, Jude, number one for nine weeks. Pretty crazy. All right. Last one. You’re going to like this one. I think you know this one off the top of your head, so just let me know. James Taylor only had one number one hit in his entire career, which is shocking to me. What was it?

Stephen E. Seckler: Sweet Baby James.

Jared D. Correia: It is, You’ve Got A Friend from Mud Slide Slim in the Blue Horizon in 1971. He only had, like, three or four top five hits, too. So, Steve, you’ve survived the Rump Roast. This was fun. How do you feel?

Stephen E. Seckler: I’m sweating profusely.

Jared D. Correia: Good.

Stephen E. Seckler: But I do really appreciate being invited back, even if I had to suffer through the Rump Roast.

Jared D. Correia: Oh, this was five things. I was sweating profusely, but that’s because I haven’t put the air conditioning in yet. In any event, thanks for coming on, Steve. We’ll have you back again for time number four. Everybody be ready for that, and we’ll talk to you soon.

Stephen E. Seckler: Thanks, Jared.

[Music]

Jared D. Correia: If you want to find out more about Steve Seckler and Seckler Attorney Coaching, visit seckler.com. That’s S-E-C-K-L-E-R.com. Steve Seckler, seckler.com. Now, for those of you listening in Weweantic, Massachusetts, which is a real place, this may not come as a surprise to you, but we’ve got a Spotify playlist curated by the one and only Steve Seckler, called Deep Cuts with Steve Seckler. Check it out, and get your B side on. Now, sadly, I’ve run out of time today to talk about how I’m trying to convert my entire wardrobe into just snuggy as crocs, but I suppose, we can talk about that later if, and only if, it doesn’t interrupt my midday nap. This is Jared Correia reminding you that children can be assholes, too.

[Music]

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