Adding value for bar association members is always a good idea. Jared chats with Rio Peterson, who has just about seen it all when it comes to bar programming—from cool events to tech offerings to stellar educational programs and more. Listen in for her thoughts on improving bar culture and providing more for members. Jared and Rio also talk about how lawyer side hustles are more common than you might think and just might provide the little extra something you need in your life.
This time on the Rump Roast—you don’t often use Simon Le Bon heads as your rating mechanism, but today is the day! Jared has Rio rate the annoyance level of a variety of “Name Songs” pulled from the archives of popular music. Also, does Rio like it when you ask her if she “dances on the sand”? If the answer to that one isn’t obvious, tune in to find out.
Circling back—since you’re a lawyer, your side hustle has to be seriously legit. You don’t want to find yourself in the middle of a legal ethics violation, so Jared explains the best ways to keep your extra gigs on the up and up. Learn more about this topic in Christa Arcos’ article: Wearing Two Hats: Dual Practices and Ancillary Businesses.
Rio Peterson is Bar and Affinity Partnerships Strategist at ALPS Lawyers Malpractice Insurance.
We talked about songs titled after girls’ name and how annoying that must be if you happen to share that name, so here’s a playlist highlighting that occasion!
Our opening track is Two Cigarettes by Major Label Interest.
Our closing track is Jewels by Falls.
Special thanks to our
sponsors , , , and .
Make: It’s a Legal Toolkit with Jared Correia. With guests, Rio Peterson. We play Name Songs and then kiddos take your seats, break out your textbooks and turn the page 142, because Jared’s teaching chemistry and this stuff will be on the final exam. But first, your host, Jared Correia.
Jared D. Correia: Welcome back everybody, it’s the Legal Toolkit Podcast. I guess anything is possible and yes, it’s still called the Legal Toolkit Podcast even though I don’t own a reciprocating saw, because I’m not out there demoing shit. I’m your host, Jared Correia. You’re stuck with me because Montel Williams was unavailable, he’s busy polishing his 1996 Daytime Emmy Award. That’s right, I’m the CEO of Red Cave Law Firm Consulting, a business management consulting service for attorneys and bar associations. Find us online at redcavelegal.com. I’m the CEO of Gideon Software, Inc. We build chat bots so law firms can convert more leads and conversational document assembly tools so law firms can build documents faster and more accurately. Schedule a demo, so check out our new esignature platform at gideonlegal.com. Now, before we get to our interview today with Rio Peterson of ALPS, I want to talk about Lawyer Side Hustles. So, yeah, in a little bit, we’ll talk with Rio about side hustles for lawyers, non-lawyers, she’ll tell you about her own side hustle.
But as with most things, when it comes to being a lawyer, having a side hustle is of course, more difficult and guess what? Spoiler alert, it also invokes the lawyer ethics rules. I know that’s going to be fucking shocking, right? Yes, you can’t even get paid to walk a goddamn dog without worrying about professional ethics rules if you’re a practicing attorney. Okay, well, maybe it’s not that dramatic, but it’s still something you should be aware of, so let’s talk about it. So if you have, like, a side hustle off of your law firm, that’s like a real business, the term of our for that would be a dual practice or an ancillary business. I like to use the term ancillary business because I’m cool like that. So what does that mean? That’s where a practicing attorney generally holds another professional license or owns or has an interest in a company that provides services that are arguably law related. Okay, we’re talking about ethics and guess what? We’re already in the gray area. What are law related legal services? Who the fuck knows?
No, let me try and answer that for you. Rule 5.7 is generally where this definition will live, but basically, here’s a good one from Massachusetts, where I live. Services that might reasonably be performed in conjunction with and its substance are related to the provision of legal services and that are not prohibited as unauthorized practice of law when provided by a non-lawyer. Okay, here are some examples. Title insurance companies, financial planning services, accounting, real estate counseling, legislative lobbying, economic analysis, social work, psychological counseling, tax prep you see that a lot. And consulting of all types which is like, you would think the stuff that other lawyers are getting into or lawyers getting into in terms of other businesses. Like I know a ton of law firms that have title companies, I know a ton of law firms that do tax prep work. So if you’re going to do this, ideally you want to do it through an entirely separate company. So another entity that also maintains data via separate software.
So the idea is you run it just like an entirely separate business with a different set of software or what you could theoretically do is create another company on an existing software that you have. Now, if you don’t want to do it through a separate company, the bad news is it’s kind of just like running a law firm. So when an attorney provides law related services through law firm in circumstances are not distinct from the lawyer’s provision of legal services to clients, the attorney’s conduct in whole is still subject to the rules of professional conduct. So if you offer law related services through a separate company, one thing that you can do is you can disclaim what you’re doing to remove application of some of, but not all of the rules of professional conduct as I mentioned. Even if you’re out there babysitting dogs, you still got to be ethical about it.
Which if you don’t have a law degree, doesn’t apply to you. So what does that mean? Like disclaimer? You have to basically tell the client what’s happening. So do you want to take reasonable measures to do so and that would include a sufficient explanation to the recipient of the services, preferably in writing of course, that the additional services are not legal services and that the ethics rules, including the attorney client privilege do not apply. And this is like one real touchstone of the legal ethics rules. You got to tell your clients what you’re doing even if apparently you are a lawyer who’s running another business. So you are, as I mentioned, still subject to certain ethics rules. So here’s the deal, a lawyer’s conduct in all business transaction is always subject to the ethical rules that apply to a lawyer’s conduct. Generally, what are those ethics rules? Don’t worry, they’re mostly the big ones. Being dishonest, committing fraud, misrepresenting yourself, violating criminal statutes, the shit you don’t want to do as a normal person anyway.
And of course, I think we’ve talked about this before on the show, but you can’t practice law inside of an ancillary business. So just keep on waiting for the passage of alternative business structures in your state or jurisdiction which is no doubt coming in the next decade or two. You can be that patient, right? The other thing to be aware of is that you still can’t advertise with non-lawyers so that ancillary business and the law firm cannot advertise their services together. They have to be separate advertising schemes as well and, of course, noting that ABS is not available in most jurisdictions for lawyers, which means that you could run a business with non-lawyers, share fees with them and also perform legal and legal related services in the same business. You cannot share legal fees with non-lawyers even if you have an ancillary business.
A couple more items referrals are kind of a bitch if you’re making a referral from the law firm to the law related business that’ll fall under Rule 1.8(a) covering business transactions with a client and that transaction has to be fair and reasonable and also, here’s the key part, there has to be full disclosure and consent in writing on the referral, which is a little bit of a bar. Now, when the ancillary business refers clients to the law firm, the ethical rules on advertising solicitation might apply, and that hamstrings you a little bit more as well. So, not exactly making this easy, right? And conflicts are still in play. So, if you have ethical duties to maintain the confidentiality of your client’s information and that would be broken by working with someone that was referred to you via a law related business or that you was working with you and you’re a law related business, you may not be able to perform legal services for them.
In fact, you may not be able to provide non-legal services for them. Let me read to you from an article I’ll talk about in a second. The attorney’s ethical duties to existing or prior clients of the law practice may prevent an attorney from rendering non-legal services to prospective business clients if doing so would conflict with the attorney’s duties of loyalty to law practice clients. So I was mostly kidding before, it’s not impossible to do this, but it’s probably best. Well, easiest if you’re a lawyer and you want to start a side hustle to run a non-law related business. It’s harder to set up a tax prep business than it would be to run a restaurant, let’s say. Or perhaps if you’re Ben Affleck and decide to get a legal degree, you just open a dunks and get your shit for free. Though you can never personally escape those ethics rules that apply to attorneys simply because they’re attorneys.
Now, if you want to learn more about this topic, check out a great article that was written by my friend Christa Arcos titled ‘Wearing Two Hats: Dual Practices and Ancillary Businesses.’ That’s on the Massachusetts Board of Bar Overseers page. The article is old, but it’s still relevant and I’ve quoted some of her stuff in this monologue, in fact. All right, let’s find out more about what our sponsor companies can do for your busy law practice before we talk Side Hustles, Bar Associations, and more with Rio Peterson of ALPS Legal Malpractice Insurance. Then, stay tuned as we talk more about Annoying Songs in the rump roast.
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Jared D. Correia: Okay, everybody, let’s get to the meat in the middle of this legal podcasting sandwich. Today’s meat is Canadian bacon, which is a weird type of circular bacon. Why can’t we just all agree on strips? Rio, what is it about Canadian bacon?
Rio Peterson: Yeah, that’s a question that Canadians ask ourselves all the time because it’s not very good. It’s, like, basically thick, fried lunch meat. Like, I agree, strips, bacon strips, but thick cut strips. There’s got to be a happy medium there. None of that, like, thin, I don’t know, papery nonsense. You got to have nice, thick bacon, but not the circles. A lot totally agree.
Jared D. Correia: I’m glad that you clear that up. Well, I feel like I should introduce you now, because we’re right into it. Here’s our guest in Canada herself, Rio Peterson, the Bar Partnership Strategist at ALPS Legal Malpractice Insurance. Is this your first appearance on the show? Congrats, this is a new job for you.
Rio Peterson: This is my first appearance on the show, yes. And yes, it is a new job. Lots of new things happening.
Jared D. Correia: How are you enjoying the show so far? We’ve covered Canadian bacon it only goes up from here.
Rio Peterson: No, it’s right up my alley. This is exactly what I came here for.
Jared D. Correia: Well, thank you for coming in, I appreciate it.
Rio Peterson: Thank you for having me.
Jared D. Correia: Now, I should mention that people may know you from Clio, the legal software company. Rio from Clio, that was really convenient that you’re named rhymed with the name of the company.
Rio Peterson: I know. Tell me about it. And I got to say, I am soliciting suggestions for Rio from ALPS because it just doesn’t quite have the same ring and I’ve been trying to workshop it and trying to figure things out, but it hasn’t been coming really easily.
Jared D. Correia: That’s all right, we can work on it.
Rio Peterson: Please let me know.
Jared D. Correia: Send them in, send them suggestion. Are you open to changing your name? Probably not.
Rio Peterson: No. I’m probably going to keep my name, but maybe ALPS could change their name, who knows?
Jared D. Correia: That’s a better play. All right, ALPS, if you’re listening.
Rio Peterson: But probably not.
Jared D. Correia: A rebrand.
Rio Peterson: A little rebrand just for me, just to accommodate me and my name.
Jared D. Correia: Yeah. So talk to me about the ALPS thing. We’ve known each other for a while. We’ve been to a bunch of conferences. You’ve always worked for Clio in the time I’ve known you. So why did you decide to make the move now and why ALPS?
Rio Peterson: Well, the ALPS opportunity just kind of came along at exactly the right time, and it was sort of serendipitous. Yeah, I was at Clio for five and a half years and that was a really incredible experience. I got a lot of opportunities there that I don’t think I would have otherwise came across, but you kind of get to a point where you’re running a program and you grow it, and it gets so big, and then sometimes you just feel like it’s time to take the next step and the next challenge and move forward. Yeah, so I actually worked with ALPS for several years through my role at Clio and they approached me, and we’re like, oh, we’re looking at creating a position at ALPS that’s similar to what you do at Clio. Do you have any kind of input about what that could look like? And I was like, well, I mean, maybe that could look like me.
Jared D. Correia: Nice, well played.
Rio Peterson: I’m doing that for you. They were like, that sounds like a great idea. And so, here we are.
Jared D. Correia: That’s awesome. Yes, I was going to mention you’re doing kind of the same thing that you were doing at Clio, but it’s kind of cool when someone creates a job for you and believes in you so much that they’re like, hey, you can build this platform out for us.
Rio Peterson: I have to say, I was incredibly flattered.
Jared D. Correia: That’s awesome. Like, well deserved and I’m sure you’re going to kick ass.
Rio Peterson: Yeah, thank you.
Jared D. Correia: So let’s talk about what you’re doing, what you have done. I think you mentioned this you work with Bar Associations. So what does that mean?
Rio Peterson: So I have a very niche kind of specialization where I manage and nurture relationships with Bar Associations.
So what that means is for Clio and for ALPS and for a lot of other businesses out there, we partner with bar associations to basically provide value to their members and to kind of create a win win relationship between the company and the bar to just help ensure the success of kind of lawyers across the country really, the more support we can offer, the better. And kind of through these relationships, a lot of the time they generate business for the company, but they also provide resources and kind of support for the bars and for their members.
Jared D. Correia: Yeah. So it’s kind of like this symbiotic might be the wrong word, but the relationship works for both parties.
Rio Peterson: Oh, absolutely. It’s a win win.
Jared D. Correia: Usually it’s like product discount, right for bar members and then some additional features.
Rio Peterson: Yeah, exactly.
Jared D. Correia: I think Bar Associations get a bad rap, actually. I work with a lot of bar associations too and I find that the people there are really open and interested in working with you and that there are some Bar Associations out there that are doing some pretty innovative things. So what has your experience been like actually working with the folks at the bar associations to this point?
Rio Peterson: It has been fantastic, particularly when you have staff who are really invested in what they do and understand the importance of the role that a bar can play in a lawyer’s career in their life. And it really depends. I think the struggle often is that the staff are really, really excited and wanting to move things forward and evolve, but then you oftentimes end up with say, a board that is not so onboard with that and that can be a struggle. And I really feel for a lot of the staff.
Jared D. Correia: And the board changes constantly, whereas the staff stays in place constantly.
Rio Peterson: Exactly. So the staff tend to have a really good feel for what their members need, how they’re feeling about things, and they kind of see all the kind of opportunities and places where we can work together, but then they have to run those things by the board and that can be a challenge for them absolutely.
Jared D. Correia: So I’m going to put you on spot a little bit here. What’s the coolest thing you’ve ever seen a Bar Association do? Because you’ve worked with a lot of Bar Associations.
Rio Peterson: I’ve worked with so many Bar Associations.
Jared D. Correia: Maybe there’s more than one thing that you could think of.
Rio Peterson: Oh my goodness. So I think there’s kind of two different ways that I would think about this. The first is kind of in terms of supporting their members, a lot of the Bar Associations have really started to launch programs to help with wellness, but also to help with rural lawyers as well, to help encourage lawyers to start practicing in rural communities in order to increase access to justice. I really just admire that and think there’s such a major need for bars to double down on that. It’s a really kind of incredible initiative. On the flip side though, I’ve been to a lot of really fun events that bar associations have put on. I’ve got to Cruise Lake Champlain, that was a lot of fun.
Jared D. Correia: Really?
Rio Peterson: Oh yeah. Were you not? Was that in for a month are you not.
Jared D. Correia: I think I was at that one at some point.
Rio Peterson: I think you were there.
Jared D. Correia: I don’t think I wanted to cruise though. When we’re in Vermont, I like to like my kids were young, I like to throw rocks into the lake and try and convince them that it’s the Lake Monster, which works for a little while.
Rio Peterson: What’s its name again?
Jared D. Correia: Champy.
Rio Peterson: Champy, that’s right, Champy and Lake Champlain.
Jared D. Correia: As you might be aware, we’ve done a podcast on cryptoids (ph) previously here, because we cover any and all things at the Legal Toolkit.
Rio Peterson: Love that, that’s fantastic.
Jared D. Correia: Lake Champlain Cruise, that’s awesome. Any other events stand out for you? Because the bar association gets access to really cool stuff, like locations and also events.
Rio Peterson: Yes, absolutely. So the Multnomah Bar every year does, like Battle of the Bands, where they have bands that are all legal, like all lawyer members, and so they do a Battle of the Bands every year, which is pretty fantastic and a lot of fun.
Jared D. Correia: Multanoma, is that what you said?
Rio Peterson: Multnomah.
Jared D. Correia: Where’s that?
Rio Peterson: I think I said Maltanoma, but it’s Multnomah in Oregon.
Jared D. Correia: Oh, my God. Wow. All right. Shasta Multnomah, never heard of them before. All right, but you had another thing that you’re going to talk about.
Rio Peterson: So I think possibly the funniest event that I ever attended was put on by the International Cannabis Bar Association in Las Vegas. So every year, they kind of run a smaller event in conjunction with MJBizCon, which is the largest cannabis trade show in North America and their party, I got to say, they really stepped it up. They had crepe bar, they had custom cocktails. They were naturally passing around some of the devil’s lettuce.
Jared D. Correia: Naturally, naturally.
Rio Peterson: Naturally, naturally.
But it was just really, really well attended and a fun interesting event.
Jared D. Correia: That sounds amazing.
Rio Peterson: Yeah, it was fantastic and everybody was it’s just great to be, you know, go to an event where everyone’s really smart but also really laid back so you have some great, interesting conversations.
Jared D. Correia: Yeah. All right, everybody, so, like, if you’re listening, Cannabis Bar, I’m available for speaking engagements. I’ll just need a lot of Cheetos afterwards.
Rio Peterson: Yes.
Jared D. Correia: So when people are like, bars are not fun, clearly we’ve dispelled that rumor.
Rio Peterson: Oh, absolutely. I think there is a misconception that bars aren’t fun, but it’s not true. It’s not true particularly when you have folks who are really interested in doing things differently and listening to their members when they throw an event and it doesn’t go well, and then their members give feedback and then they change it, that’s when you find those really fantastic events coming up.
Jared D. Correia: All right, so part of your job is educational programming for Bar Associations, which I think is really interesting. And I guess there’s two species of this, correct me if I’m wrong. One is a bar wants to do something, you provide help, and another is like, I’m assuming at some point in time bars are like, hey, can you just do programming for us like take it and run with it, is that right?
Rio Peterson: Yes, absolutely. One of the biggest challenges that I find that our partners face is that they don’t necessarily have a team large enough to have a dedicated content person. So producing content that is timely and relevant and innovative can be a real challenge because they just don’t have the resources. So that’s kind of where I come in. That’s where ALPS comes in, because we do have those people. We have folks who are dedicated to producing content, and not just any content, but content that is relevant, content that is helpful and really designed to help lawyers be better lawyers, but also run better law firms. And that’s kind of one of the ways that my program provides value is to support Bar Associations with that content piece. And that can look like anything from CLEs educational content to blog articles, guides on starting a law firm, guides on marketing a law firm. It’s not necessarily CLE every time, but it’s just things that are designed to help lawyers fill in those gaps and help them with the things that they don’t learn in law school.
Jared D. Correia: Right, which is a lot. So I guess I should mention this too. If people at Bar Associations probably either working with ALPS already or want to work with ALPS, you’re like the best new contact for that.
Rio Peterson: Oh, I am. I absolutely am. Yes, my email is [email protected], so reach out we’d love to work with you.
Jared D. Correia: Very nice. I want to hit one more thing before we finish.
Rio Peterson: Sure.
Jared D. Correia: Side hustles.
Rio Peterson: Yeah, side hustles.
Jared D. Correia: I love side hustles you love side hustles?
Rio Peterson: I do.
Jared D. Correia: I think they’re great. I think probably a lot more lawyers have side hustles than people think. And then you do that in a formal way, like I talked about in the monologue, where you have a full scale like, ancillary business attached to your law firm, or you could just do something on your own. You could go be an Uber driver.
Rio Peterson: Yeah, exactly.
Jared D. Correia: So talk to me about that. Have you done that yourself? What do you think about it? What do you think about it for lawyers, we can just have a broad conversation.
Rio Peterson: Yes, absolutely. So, for myself, I have done a side hustle over the pandemic. I actually did dog walking. So I’m very fortunate to live in a place that has a lot of nature nearby, and I already have dogs, so I was like, well, I may as well get paid to walk other people’s dogs. So I spent most of the pandemic in the woods with a bunch of dogs.
Jared D. Correia: Sounds like this character in Disney movie.
Rio Peterson: Yeah, absolutely. I would just break out in some off key singing and be surrounded by dogs and sometimes birds, and it was just magical. But it was both really good for my mental health. But also I made a pretty tidy amount from doing that.
Jared D. Correia: That’s awesome.
Rio Peterson: Yeah, and it was very low stress. I think the key to a good side hustle is that it has to be kind of low lift and not that makes sense.
Jared D. Correia: Less stressful than, like your full time.
Rio Peterson: Yeah. Less stressful than your full time gig. Exactly, unless, of course, you’re wanting to eventually make your side hustle your full time gig, in which case yeah, but for me, it was mostly about paying off debt, which I did and keeping myself busy and making some extra money. It was also really easy to get started and I think that’s the key to a good side hustle. It’s got to be, like, low upfront investment, low time investment and high profits.
Jared D. Correia: How many dogs do you have?
Rio Peterson: I have two.
Jared D. Correia: And how many dogs can one walk at one time?
Rio Peterson: Oh, I think it really depends on the dogs. I would take up to six dogs, though at a time.
As many as would fit in my vehicle. Really.
Jared D. Correia: That’s like, my nightmare. I’m allergic to dogs. So you’re like, you do the transport part of it, too. That’s so interesting.
Rio Peterson: Yeah, I would pick them up, and I was very lucky because in the town that I was living in, there was nobody else walking dogs, and everybody got dogs during COVID so I had plenty of business.
Jared D. Correia: Now, did you end up advertising for yourself or did you use a service for that? How did you start that up?
Rio Peterson: Great question. So I actually used an app called Rover, which is specifically for folks offering pet sitting, dog walking, et cetera.
Jared D. Correia: Is Wag another one of those or am I wrong about that.
Rio Peterson: I’m not sure. In Canada it’s Rover.
Jared D. Correia: I think Wag is something in the US, but go ahead keep going.
Rio Peterson: Got it. Yeah. So, initially, I got my clients off of there, and I was a little bit sneaky and don’t tell the folks at Rover, but what I would do is, after our first meeting, I would say, hey, do you want to just take this off the App so that I don’t have to give them a cats (ph).
Jared D. Correia: Everybody does that. I’m sure they expect that and budget for that, go ahead.
Rio Peterson: Agreed, agreed. They send you lots of warnings about it, though, but I’m sure everyone does it.
Jared D. Correia: Too late ditches.
Rio Peterson: Yeah. So, initially that’s where I got my clients from, but then after a couple of months, I just ended up focusing on repeat clients. So I had folks who regularly I would walk their dogs. I did some doggy daycare, so the dogs would just hang out with me while I worked at home and just focused on that. And I did that for a couple of years, actually. I actually just wrapped it up shortly after the pandemic ended. It was a lot of fun. Definitely a good side hustle, especially if you’re looking to get some exercise. Get out there.
Jared D. Correia: Just chilling with like 47 dogs in your house.
Rio Peterson: Yeah.
Jared D. Correia: Each one their own little cash register. Rio, this has been really fun. Thank you. Will you come back for our last segment?
Rio Peterson: Oh, absolutely yes, please.
Jared D. Correia: Okay. We’ll take one final sponsor break so you can hear more about our sponsor companies and their latest service offerings. Then stay tuned for the rump roast. It’s even more supple than the roast beast.
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Jared D. Correia: Welcome, everybody. That’s right, we’re back again at the rear end of the Legal Toolkit. That’s right, it’s the rump roast tell your friends. It’s a grab bag of short form topics all of my choosing. Why do I get to pick? Because I’m the host. Now, Rio, as we went over, your name is Rio, which you’re probably aware of. Really cool name, I think, honestly. But as you may know, that’s also a famous Duran Duran song. Are you familiar with that?
Rio Peterson: I don’t know. I’ve never heard that one before.
Jared D. Correia: You’ve never heard the Duran Duran song?
Rio Peterson: I’m being completely sarcastic. I was named after that song.
Jared D. Correia: No, I was hoping — I was hoping that that would be the case.
Rio Peterson: I was.
Jared D. Correia: Named after the song? No way.
Rio Peterson: Yes.
Jared D. Correia: I didn’t know that.
Rio Peterson: Came out the year I was born. Yeah, named after the song.
Jared D. Correia: Now, was that just circumstance? Like, your parents heard the song and liked it, or were they, like, huge Duran Duran fans?
Rio Peterson: Yeah, so my dad was working on a project in the garage, and it came on the radio and he said to my mom, hey, how about Rio? And she was like, oh, that’s great. And, yeah, here we are.
Jared D. Correia: Okay, that’s great back story. I was, like, secretly hoping that would be the case. So how many times since then has someone mentioned that to you? And how obnoxious is it?
Rio Peterson: So I used to be a bartender at some really divvy little bars. And if I had a dollar for every time some drunk patrons said to me, hey, do you dance on the sand?
I would be really wealthy. I’d have a lot of money. So yeah, I’ve heard that many, many times. And it always is old. It’s always old.
Jared D. Correia: That is so obnoxious. This is great. So I want to talk about other songs that have women’s names in the title they’re probably annoyed about. I’m going to call this segment Name Songs for the sake of brevity. So here’s what I want to do. I want to mention a song to you, and then I would like you to put yourself in the place of that person. Tell me how annoying it would be if you were named after the person in that song on a one to five scale. And let’s go with Simon Le Bon Heads, with five being the most annoying and one being the least annoying. What do you think?
Rio Peterson: Agreed.
Jared D. Correia: Okay, so just a quick digression here. My wife’s name is Jessica and I think she got off really easy here. Jessica by the Almond Brothers, a name song but doesn’t have any words, and it’s also like, a legitimately good song. So, like what is somebody going to do, I met you for, like, seven minutes? I feel like she skated by on this one.
Rio Peterson: I agree. I’ll give that a two, because I do feel like someone humming at you for seven minutes would be annoying, but.
Jared D. Correia: Yeah, that would be annoying my kids probably do that to me on a regular basis. So Duran Duran is Rio, that’s got to be a five for you. Five out of five. Simon Le bon heads, right?
Rio Peterson: Yeah, it is. Sometimes it’s funny if I’m in the mood for it, but it’s usually just a five.
Jared D. Correia: All right. A lot of songs like this really annoying songs that guys wrote about their girlfriends came out in the 80s. So are you familiar with Oh Sherrie by Steve Perry?
Rio Peterson: Yeah, I absolutely am.
Jared D. Correia: Oh, Sherrie, hold on, hold on, hold on. That’s like the whole song. It’s really wordsmith. Now, can we talk about the fact that if they had gotten married in real life, her name would have been Sherrie Perry?
Rio Peterson: Sherrie Perry. It’s got a good ring to it Sherrie Perry.
Jared D. Correia: Yeah. In reality, I feel like maybe that would be obnoxious, too. So let me ask you this. On a scale of one to five, how annoyed would you have been in 1984 if your name was Sherrie? You think it would have gone to five levels?
Rio Peterson: Oh, absolutely. Particularly because I feel like you would have had a lot of people being like, oh, Sherrie, every time you said anything.
Jared D. Correia: Yes. Okay, I got another 80 song for you.
Rio Peterson: Okay, let’s do it.
Jared D. Correia: 8675309 Jenny, you know the song?
Rio Peterson: 8675309, yes I do know that song.
Jared D. Correia: Excellent. I got it. That whole thing. Okay. And then this guy’s like, going out with this girl, apparently, or wants to go with this girl, and he’s like, I found her number on the bathroom wall. That’s, like, the whole thesis. I’m not sure how potentially successful this relationship is going to be like, hey, I just call this girl whose number I found on the bathroom wall. She’s going to love this story, it’s going to end in a storybook fashion, perhaps not.
Rio Peterson: It’s a quintessential meet cute, finding your number on the bathroom wall. It’s love at first sight on the bathroom wall, I guess.
Jared D. Correia: Sight of the graffiti. Yeah, I guess so. I don’t know what these guys are fucking thinking in the early 80s. Like, all these songs we talked about so far from the early 80s.
Rio Peterson: Yeah, it’s true. So I think in terms of the name, like Jenny, I’m going to give that probably a three. But I think for the person who had that phone number, it would be, like a seven. They probably got so many random calls.
Jared D. Correia: Right. Hello? Is Jenny there? Go fuck yourself. All right, this is good. I got one more. I’m going back to the 60s for this one. Help me Rhonda, do you know this one?
Rio Peterson: Help me Rhonda help me get around my heart, yeah.
Jared D. Correia: I didn’t know there would be singing involved, but this is great even better.
Rio Peterson: Neither did I. Yeah, the Beach Boys, right?
Jared D. Correia: Yes. I love The Beach Boys. So I looked up the lyrics for the song, and there are only about ten lines that aren’t Help me Rhonda. So you’d think normally that would be a really annoying song, but like the Beach Boys harmonize so well, and I like the instrumentation of this song. That doesn’t bother me. Like, I still like the song. I guess the question is, if my name was Rhonda, maybe not so much.
Rio Peterson: I imagine you’d hear Help me Rhonda so many times. What if you worked in customer service and your name was Rhonda? You’d have so many people.
Jared D. Correia: That’s a good one.
Rio Peterson: Just help me Rhonda.
Jared D. Correia: You might have been like, hey, it’s the mid-60s, I’m just trying to surf me alone.
Rio Peterson: So I would say a five. I would say a five. I think I feel bad for the Rhonda that that song is about. Because isn’t it about her helping him get over another woman?
Jared D. Correia: Yeah. Rhonda’s the rebound.
Rio Peterson: Yeah. Rhonda’s the rebound, that’s not fair. Rhonda deserves to be the main squeeze. I think especially –
Jared D. Correia: This should have done a sequel to that song that’s on Brian Wilson, honestly.
Rio Peterson: Yeah, absolutely. You really missed the mark on that one, I think.
Jared D. Correia: Rio, this was great fun, thank you.
Rio Peterson: Yeah, it was. Thank you Jared. Thank you for having me.
Jared D. Correia: All right. Thanks for coming out for both sessions and we will talk soon, I’m sure.
Rio Peterson: Yes, we will I would love that. And just a reminder to any Bar Associations out there, [email protected].
Jared D. Correia: Just make sure in any email you send Rio, mention the song Rio by Duran Duran, is that helpful?
Rio Peterson: Please make sure to do that absolutely and while you’re at it, you could even put my email on a bathroom wall, who knows? We will get lots of new partners that way I’m sure.
Jared D. Correia: That’s the next advertising campaign. Thanks, Rio. Thanks everybody, for listening.
Rio Peterson: Thanks.
Jared D. Correia: If you want to find out more about Rio Peterson and ALPS Legal Malpractice Insurance, visit alpsinsurance.com. That’s A-L-P-S insurance.com. ALPS like the mountains, alpsinsurance.com. Now, for those of you listening in likely British Columbia, Canada press predictably we have a new Spotify playlist for you. Songs about girls, including the ones we just mentioned. Now, sadly, I’ve run out of time today to talk about relative density. Mostly because I don’t know what the fuck that is. This is Jared Correia reminding you that one way to make your mark is to step in wet cement.