Legal Tech’s Second Wave, A Different Take on Diversity in Business, and The Legal Toolkit Law Review Hour

Episode Notes

Transcript

[Music]

Intro: It’s the Legal Toolkit with Jared Correia, with guests James Rodgers.  We present the Legal Toolkit, Law Review Hour.  And then, Jared gives his ever-timely review of the last episode of Seinfeld, so you can finally know what to think about it.  But first, your host, Jared Correia.

Jared Correia: It’s time for the Legal Toolkit podcast to know that Charleston shoe wrapper(ph) is not mine.  I swear to God.  And yes, it’s still called the Legal Toolkit pod cast.  Even though I don’t have any stork beak pliers accessible in my home at this very second.  I’m your host, Jared Correia.  You’re stuck with me because Casey Kasem was not available.  He was also a stoner icon Shaggy, you know, the one with a capital S from Scooby Doo, and look at that, it’s 420.

I’m the CEO of Red Cave Law Firm, consulting a business management consulting service for attorneys and bar associations.  Find us online @redcavelegal.com.  We build chatbots so law firms can convert more leads and conversational document assembly tools, so law firms can build documents faster and more accurately.  You can find out more about Gideon @gideonlegal.com.

Now, before we get to our interview today with James Rodgers, The Diversity Coach.  I’ve got another crazy theory for you.  Hear me out Mothman, no, wait, I think we already did cryptids.  Let’s talk Legal Tech, because that’s why you’re here, right?  The Legal Toolkit for legal technology and et cetera.  It’s either that or my shimmering personality, I suppose that is a driver as well.  I’m kind of a big deal in any event.  I want to talk about Legal Tech and partly tease our next guest.  Right now, I’ll talk a little bit about Legal Tech.  Next time, next time friends, we’re going to be talking with Ryan Anderson, founder and CEO of Filevine, a case management software.  We had such a fun time talking to Drew Armstrong from Lapeer that we’re doing it again with another big box legal provider and its CEO, so we’ll see how that goes.  It should be fun.  Ryan is a fun dude.

Now, let’s talk about Legal Tech and as I mentioned, another one of my theories.  I have a lot of theories.  Not many people listen to them, well, you do, I suppose.  So, in terms of Legal Tech, I kind of feel like we’re in a second wave of Legal Technology right now, which begs the question.  “What was the first wave of Legal Technology?” Don’t worry, I got you.  That’s probably not the first wave of Legal Technology.  I mean, somebody invented the typewriter, right?  But in terms of where we’re at right now, what I find interesting is that when I started doing business management consulting for lawyers, somewhere around like 2007, 2008, 2009, I don’t know, it all blurred together.  Around that time, that’s when this cloud-based software is first started coming out, and they were case management softwares.  I think there’s still a death struggle between Clio and Rocket Matter about who was first.  I don’t really care.  They kind of both came out around the same time.  Cloud-based software, systems management software.  Those companies have both been really successful in their own way. Clio has a billion-dollar valuation.  They’re a unicorn.  They have the biggest capital raise in the history of Canada.  They’re a sponsor of this podcast.  Rocket Matter just sold recently, really impressive bootstrapping company.  And so, everybody was like, “You know what, let’s just build a shit ton of back office software.”  That law practice management thing works so well.  Let’s make 700 of them.  And so when the pandemic started, the fucking pandemic in early 2020, people like had graded tons and tons and tons of back office softwares.  You couldn’t even count the number of viable law practice management software is on two hands and two feet.  Like I said, there’s probably hundreds of them at this point.

Now, what happened during the pandemic for lawyers was two things, well, more than two, but these are two I want to focus on right now.  The first was that law firms who hadn’t adopted law practice management software previously went fucking all in, because they were like, “Oh my God.  I need a cloud-based way to management software because I can’t yell at my secretary anymore because he or she is two feet from me.”

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Everybody’s working from home.  What would I do?  Relational database available for managing your practice, tremendously helpful, right?  I mean, it was tremendously helpful 13, 15 years ago, but continues to be tremendously helpful.  I’m not saying there’s not a place for law practice management softwares, I’m saying the market is a bit saturated to say the least.  Kind of like where I live in Massachusetts, we have nine law schools, which is fucking ridiculous because there’s only like 50,000 lawyers in the state, but I digress.  So everybody bought into law firm access management software.  Great.  I think people should be doing that.  Good for law firm access management software vendors as well.  They sprang up and did really well, and they crushed it in terms of revenue.  Now, they’re like many Amazons, however, there’s a big hole in the marketplace.

So the other thing that happened during the pandemic was that lawyers started being like, “Oh, nobody wants to hold my pen anymore or come into my office, or be within  six feet of me and the vast majority of law firms were running analog intake, and we’re using analog marketing solutions, including in person networking.  So, in an instant, that needed to be converted to digital or virtual methods.  Now, post-pandemic, right?  Law firms can start to utilize analog methods again, but I think it makes sense to have two pathways.  How do you build a digital pathway for intake and marketing solutions, especially intake which was the crux of this, like, how do you convert what was previously an almost entirely in-person human centered process to something that’s digital and more technology focused?  Well, you need a different type of software.  You need a CRM, customer relationship management software.  This is sort of like the law practice management software for marketing.  It’s how you manage all your leads; it’s how you build pipelines for intake.  It’s how you create client journeys.  It’s how you pull data from the intake process and run reports and figure out how to improve what you’re doing.  All good things, right?  Impossible without software, or not impossible, but really hard without software, like engraving tablets.

So, in terms of the Legal Tech space, everybody looked around, and they were like, “wow.”  They spent so much time building back office solutions, there aren’t really a whole host of viable solutions for front office work, intake, marketing.  Now I think we’re into that second wave of Legal Technology where those front office solutions are finally starting to be developed.  There are some standalone products for a CRM, but if you looked like pre-2019 2020, a lot of those were not focused on lawyers.  You’ve got Salesforce, you got HubSpot, you got Pipedrive, you have ActiveCampaign.  CRMs that are focused on general businesses, but now you’re starting to see some legal solutions crop up.  Lawmatics standalone CRM product created by Matt Spiegel, the original founder of my case, which is a good product.  And then, you’ve got this sort of associated solutions.

Lexicata was a legal specific CRM that was bought by Clio and turned into Clio Grow, Filevine acquired CRM called Lead Docket.  Now they have a CRM built into their system, and you’ve got Lidify, which is a case management software that’s effectively built on Salesforce which is a CRM.  So it’s got a bunch of CRM features.  And then you see another case management software system, like my case, for example, building out CRM Lite features like tracking of lead sources, that kind of thing.  That’s mostly manual, and you probably want to do that in an automated fashion and a really robust true CRM, but it’s a star.

I think this is largely a good thing and my feeling is over the next, let’s say, 5 to 10 years, there’s going to be a lot more intake marketing.  Put that into the bucket of front office solutions for law firms.  It’s not just about CRM, there’s going to be a lot of other tools that can either standalone as products or be integrated with CRMs, chat, scheduling, payment, signature tools, workflows that tie all those things together.  That’s the next step.  And I think largely, that’s a good thing.  Lawyers, in my opinion, in terms of business management, have been too heavily focused on clients for a long time.  I know that sounds stupid, right?  What the fuck are you supposed to do as a lawyer if you can’t work with clients?  It’s a balance, right?  You got to work with your clients, but as a business owner, you also have to generate new clients.  They have to have to dual focus.  And while for the last decade plus, there have been tons and tons of back office solutions for law firms.

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Now, those aren’t perfect, but there’s lots of them.  There needed to be more volume in terms of the front office solutions, and I’m glad we’re seeing that now.

Speaking of back office solutions, we’ll get to a very special edition of the Rump Roast in a little bit.  But for now, let’s get to this week’s version of the Clio Legal Trends Report with your host Joshua Lenon, who was recently spotted in Cadboro Bay of Vancouver Island, riding caddy, a plesiosaur.  Caddy is like the Canadian Loch Ness monster.  She’s the Gordon Lightfoot Nessie’s Gerry Rafferty.  OK, then, let’s hear from Joshua.

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Joshua Lenon: Did you know that lawyers who use cloud-based software are 29% happier with their professional life?  I’m Joshua Lenon, lawyer and resident of Clio and this is just one finding from our recent Legal Trends Report.  It’s no surprise that lawyers working in the cloud are more productive, but that are also a lot happier.  And why is that?  Cloud solutions offer the flexibility to work from anywhere, as well as, the tools to keep clients up-to-date with their cases at all times, so you don’t have to feel tied down to your office.  To learn more about how cloud technology is helping legal professionals manage their firm, download Clio’s Legal Trends Report for free @cleo.com/trends.  That’s Clio spelled C-L-I-O.com/trends.

Jared Correia: All right, that’s enough of that.  Let’s get back to the legal talk on the Legal Talk Network.  It’s time to interview our guest.  My guest today is James Rodgers, The Diversity coach?  No, not just a diversity coach, The Diversity Coach trademarked just like the Ohio State University, because that’s how we roll on the toolkit.

James, welcome to the show.  Thanks for coming on.

James Rodgers: Well, thank you, Jared.  It’s delighted to be here.

Jared Correia: I’m really excited to have you on.  I try to talk about diversity in the legal profession every chance I get, and I think you got a ton of experience in this space and I think you’ll be a great guest.  So, let’s get started.

How does one get into a field like this?  I don’t necessarily think you go to, like, high school or college being like, you know what, I’m going to do diversity work.  So, how did you get into this?  Like, what’s your story for that?

James Rodgers: Well, let me give you a brief background why I’m kind of unique in the field.  I’m not an HR guy.  I’m not a PR guy.  I’m an engineer by training.  I’m a former corporate executive.  I consider myself an operations person so I got into the field because a friend of mine from my former corporation told me that my business focus would be of added value to the field of diversity, which was just evolving at that time.  I’m going to call myself a self-described disciple of Dr. Roosevelt Thomas, who is considered the founder of the field of the diversity management.  He happened to be a friend and one of my neighbors in the county that I live in.  So, I never wanted to approach this work from the standpoint of sociology, social work, social justice.  I wanted to approach it from the standpoint of enterprise performance and that’s what Dr. Thomas’s work did.  And that’s why for the last 30 years, I’ve embraced that.  I’ve developed it.  I’ve been calling for a discipline in this field for 25 years, and we’re now primarily at the place where we can actually declare that diversity and inclusion is a discipline, which means that there’s a way to do it.  There’s an outcome you can expect, there’s a value proposition, and it can be taught.  And that’s what my last book, “Diversity Training That Generates Real Change, it’s all about that process.

Jared Correia: I think that’s awesome like taking an analytical, methodical view of that is really a great approach.  I want to kind of dive into this a little bit because you’ve got a very analytical viewpoint on this.  So where do you start when you’re working with a business?  Like, how do you get off the ground?  Do you do an analysis of the business first?  Are you trying to figure out, like, is there a baseline level of diversity in this business?  How do we grow it?  What does that look like?  Because I wouldn’t even know how to start there.

James Rodgers: Well, first of all, I already know that there’s a baseline of diversity because anytime there’s more than one human being, you’ve got diversity.  So diversity, unfortunately, has been defined a lot of different ways, focusing on differences, but diversity is about differences and similarities.  What I mean by that is that any human being that you meet on this planet, if you spend 10 minutes with them and have an open and honest conversation, you’re going to find something that you have in common with them that is part of diversity equation.

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Now, you’re also going to find out that you have some differences, and if you lead with differences, that’s the problem.  You lead with differences, they become a barrier.  They become something that’s a distraction to you developing relationships.  But if you leave with similarities, once I found out Jared, that you and I have something in common, when we discover later that we have some differences, those differences don’t matter so much because now we have a bond that says, “Gerry is my boyfriend.” You know that?  So, whatever –

Jared Correia: I hope that’s true.  I hope you’re not just saying that though.

James Rodgers: I’m not saying that, Jared.  You’re my boy now, you know?

Jared Correia: Yes, excellent.

James Rodgers: Once we have that relationship and a solid basis for having a relationship, whatever I discover doesn’t matter so much, and I’m sure we’ve all had that experience that when we in the process of dealing with people, someone may even say something that could be offensive.  If I don’t know them, I’m going to be offended, but if I know them, I know their heart, I know where they’re coming from, and there.  Like I said, that’s my boy, I’m going to give them a lot of room.  In fact, I’m going to say rather than denigrating them, I’m going to educate them.  I’m going to say, “Jared, you might want to be aware that what you just said.”  I wouldn’t say that aloud in public, okay?  But between me and you, it’s okay.  So those types of things that allow relationships to be fostered, even with significant differences between the party.  So the thing is, I go in knowing that they have diversity, even if they don’t realize they have it.  A lot of people say, “I look at the makeup of your organization and there’s too much of this and too little of that.”  Well, that’s because they don’t understand what diversity is.  When you look at it that way, you’re always going to find the deficit.  What I’m looking for is, “How do you take advantage of the great diversity that you already have?”

And so back to your question.  The first thing I do in an organization is I try to educate the leaders of the organization, because this stuff doesn’t work unless the leaders have a firm foundation about what it is.  They got to be the one to support it and most of them are miseducated about what diversity is.  And so, it’s difficult for them to lead people to something that they don’t yet understand.

Martin Luther King used to say all the time, “You can’t teach what you don’t know, and you can’t lead where you won’t go.”  So my first thing is to get the leaders to understand, “hey, folks, regardless of the first thing I say in all my presentations, whatever you thought you understood about diversity, be prepared to think again.”  So now, I’m getting them to understand what you are dealing with before what you thought you were doing is not what this is about.  This stuff has commercial value.  It’s able to move yours enterprise towards higher performance by utilizing your people more effectively, by making sure that they have the relationships that they need in order to be effective in whatever role they have inside the organization.

Jared Correia: Yeah, I love that.  I think it’s crazy.  You’ve kind of turned this definition on its head.  You focus more on, like, the inclusion than the diversity part in some ways.

Now, this may be a question that I’m asking the wrong way after what you just said, but like, let’s say you’re in an industry, like the legal industry, for example.  Traditionally, lots of old white guys in law firms.  How do you approach an organization like that that hasn’t traditionally embraced diversity or inclusion and get them to start moving down the pathway?  I know you talk a little bit about that in general, but what about an industry like that?

James Rodgers: Well, the subtitle of our book is “Inclusive Approaches that Benefit.”  That’s the word that benefit individuals, business and society.  So anytime, I’m going into any industry law just being one of them.  I said, first of all, let’s figure out why we’re doing this.  In other words, what’s going to be the benefit?  What’s going to be the outgrowth of this that’s going to make us all clearly see we are better doing this than not doing this.  So it’s all about benefits.

So, in the legal profession, certainly, I did some work with some legal consultants recently and they did a session on Law Line.  We talked about the fact that business development is a part of the legal profession.  You can’t practice law if you don’t have any clients to practice with so how do you get more clients?  And you get more clients through relationships, and what you don’t want to happen is have those relationships hindered because of barriers to relationships that we call diversity.  The differences can be a barrier and of course, let’s say, there’s a lot of emphasis now on getting women and people of color to produce inside these big law firms.

Jared Correia: Yes.

James Rodgers: And this is all about business development.  And what they have to do is get over this belief that because of the way I’m packaged, that’s an impediment to my relationships, and if we can teach them that relationships are based on human to human connection, they’ll get over that.

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My main line of work is when major corporations.  I do the idea of the world, but if they going to enter the halls of the corporate America and they don’t see anyone who looks like them, they don’t need to be intimidated by that because we have taught them.  Those are just other human beings.  They have the same frailties that you do.  They have the same hang ups that you do.  They have the same biases, prejudice, and stereotypes in their head that you have in yours.  Just treat them like your grandfather.  Treat them like mom of your own or whatever.  There’s no way to use them.

Jared Correia: Yeah.

James Rodgers: So just treat them like your folks and show them how brilliant you are.  You develop the relationship.  You get the business and that would be the value add that you get out of your diversity mindset.

Jared Correia: Yeah, that’s super awesome for a law firm.  Lawyers always focus on relationships anyway, so that’s an easy thing for them to adjust to.  I want to get a little bit more specific about what this looks like and how it launches in an organization in terms of the training.  So understanding what diversity is, is one thing, and then employing diversity training in an organization is something different and you refer to it as like a learning experience.

James Rodgers: Yeah.

Jared Correia: If I want diversity training for my organization, if I want these learning experiences, what does that look like?

James Rodgers: So, we have developed a technology based on adult learning theory, and based on the definitions that we use, and based on organizational strategy.  What it looks like in the classroom is we tell people, “you are not going to focus any of your attention on those people or anyone else.  You’re going to focus on you.  It’s going to be all about you.”  Because it’s surprisingly enough.  People have unconscious bias.  There’s a big movement now talking about unconscious bias, but that’s only one piece of the puzzle.  Only one piece of the puzzle, and we recognize you have unconscious and unconscious means, “I do things and respond to people in a way I’m not even aware that I do it or why I do it.”

So part of our process is really getting people and we always start off with some type of activity where we kind of derail those who say, “oh, this is good for those people, but I don’t need that because I’m a good person.”  Well, we all think we’re good people and we are all subject to do things that we wouldn’t be proud of.

Jared Correia:  Right.  Everyone is a hero on their own story, right?

James Rodgers: Absolutely.  I’m a good person.  Maybe you all are not and you all need this.  I hope that will provide you to think each — so we always have an exercise upfront where we allow them to find out, “well, I’m just as human as everyone else in the room.”  And once we do that, we derail all of that negative thinking and we take them through exercises where they — we don’t tell them, “here’s the lesson.”  We let them discover.  There’s a process we call “The Adult Learning Model.”  Which means as a leader of this learning experience, I’m going to give you an experience out of which you will have your own discovery, and then you will think about what that discovery means, and then you will think about how am I going to put that discovery to work?  So, it’s called “experience discovery implication application.”  And we go through that process over and over and over again in the classroom so that they don’t get distracted and lose sight of the fact, “this is really about me.”  No one had that discovery but me and I’m the only one that owns that and controls that and can benefit from it.

So we take it away from all of this other stuff that’s out there, the critical race theory and antiracism and all of that.  That’s interesting and I’m an academic so I love that stuff.  That’s important.  Everybody in my classroom doesn’t love it, and I don’t need to take them through in order for them to get value from this.  I just need them to know that you have bias because of the human condition, you have prejudice, you have a head full of stereotypes that you inherited by just being alive, and you have reactions to differences.  And that’s what we’re trying to get at.  Instead of reacting to differences, seek similarities so that the differences don’t matter so much.  Find out what I have in common with the other person so that when I discover our differences, even differences of philosophy, when I discovered that it’s a source of interest and not a source of distraction.

Jared Correia: Now, you said you run some of this through technology as well.  Is this a combo platter where people are in a classroom together?  Is there self-study involved?  Like how many different ways can you do this?

James Rodgers: This stuff only works when you’re with other human beings.  That’s why we call it the human connection, so we usually normally have a classroom full of about 20 to 25 people and they’re learning together.  They’re learning about themselves in the midst of what we all do as human beings.  Relationships are important to us so we learn in community as well as we exercise in community.

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And what’s important about it is you will get to hear a lot of other people’s opinions about things that you ordinarily could not hear, because if they’re not one of my tribe, I’m not listening to them.  But while you’re in this laboratory, we call the classroom, we are taught that everybody’s story matters.  We are taught that if you listen close enough, you will find there’s some value in hearing other people’s stories because each of us knows something that most of us don’t know.

Jared Correia: So the diversity training stuff, I have better idea that one thing you mentioned a few times now is that you view managing diversity as a competitive advantage for business.  And I think that’s a great way to put it and that’s got to be really appealing to CEO types, right?  So can you drill down a little bit more on that and what that means for organizations?

James Rodgers: Over my career, I have worked with over 300 different organizations, businesses, nonprofits, government, et cetera.  That’s always my selling point.  Let’s talk about –

Jared Correia: It’s a good one.

James Rodgers: It is.  I mean, when I’m talking to the senior leaders, this is my point.  My point is this will make you more money.  This will allow you to exercise your mission more completely, and it’s very convincing.  The problem is in execution because when it gets down below the C-suite level, now you’re going to get a lot of help with people telling you what it is.  And then this is what I just wrote an article in Leader to Leader magazine and I made the argument.  If you’re going to need something, lead it.  Don’t react to everybody’s grievance, if you will.  Don’t react to other people telling you, “oh, no, Mr. Leader, instead of going there, we ought to go here.” That’s not leadership.  Leadership is clear and committed to the direction that they’re taking people, and once you’ve get on that track, you don’t let anyone derail you until you know you should be doing something else.

In order to have that clarity, leaders have to do their homework.  They have to figure out, “how is this stuff going to help us achieve what we want to achieve as a business or as an agency.”  How is it going to move the ball down the field?  And once I’m convinced that this is going to work, I’m not going to be distracted.  I’m not going to allow anyone else to say, “No, this needs to be about races.  This needs to be about gender.  This needs to be about homophobia and type of things.”  No, this is about enterprise performance and this enterprise is made up of people.  And all of those people have some differences and they also have some things in common, we’re going to learn to take advantage of that fact, and we’re going to be better than our competition at doing that, which means that we’re going to kick some butt.

Jared Correia: That’s beautiful.  I thought this is really interesting.  I learned a lot here, and I think your take-on this is so much different from other folks that I hope this is helpful to everybody who are listening.  So I really appreciate you coming on today.  Thank you.

James Rodgers: My pleasure.  Thank you, Jared, I appreciate the opportunity.

Jared Correia: Awesome.  This has been fun.  So everybody listening, we’ll take one final sponsor break so you can hear more about what our sponsors can do for your law practice.  Then stay tuned for the Rump Roast.  It’s even more supple than the roast beast.

Welcome friends to the rear-end of the Legal Toolkit.  That’s right, it’s the Rump Roast.  We’re forgoing our normal Rump Roast session for something entirely new.  Now, I don’t think it’s fair that Clio gets to have all the fun with their Legal Trends Report.  I mean, a segment above this one is based on a measured and data driven approach to highlighting new and interesting aspects of law office management and the modern identity of legal consumers.  So, let’s do the complete opposite of that.

I’d like to introduce to you the very first edition of the Legal Toolkit Law Review Hour.  Well, it won’t really be an hour long, but it will contain lots of stupid informational nuggets about lawyers and law firms that we totally made up.  Now then, let me further introduce you to the host of the Legal Toolkit Law Review Hour, Randy Lemmon, reporting directly from Dildo, Newfoundland.

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Jared Correia: Built for lawyers known as cloud-based business banking is perfect for your solo or small law firm.  Easily set up categories to track income and expenses in a way that integrates smoothly with your practice management accounting, and payment systems.  Create instant transfers to your IOLTA that can pass any audit, print checks from your desk and get excellent service from reps who only work with attorneys [email protected]/legal.  Nota, banking built for law firms like yours, terms and conditions may apply.

Imagine billing day being the happiest day of the month instead of the day you dread.  Nobody went to law school because they loved rafting invoices for clients and chasing overdue bills.  At TimeSolv, our attorneys have the tools to achieve a 97% collection rate.  That means more revenue for the same work and turning billing day into happy day.  Learn more about how to get to your time and billing happy place @timesolv.com.

(00:30:06)

Randy Lemon: All right, guests, I’m Randy Lemon now.  Thanks for that, Jared.  Well, whatever.  Here’s a few “Did You Knows” for all you factoid minded listeners out there.

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Randy Lemon: A 107% of the associates in your law office think you’re a complete douche canoe.  Every time a bell rings, an attorney is undercharging a client.  Fully 96% of male attorneys own a bowtie.  Also, 35% of female lawyers.  Seventy-four thousand lawyers own a World’s Best Lawyer Mug, but you, motherfuckers, can’t all be number one.  Zero percent of the dogs featured on law firm websites, actually do any real legal work for the firm.  Eighty-six percent of attorneys become sexually aroused when designing an Excel spreadsheet.  Forty-six percent of lawyers just forgot their Westlaw password or Lexis, I guess, whatever.

Currently, four of every ten North American lawyers is sitting in a courthouse waiting for their case to be called.  When it could have been a fucking Zoom meeting.  One in three legal consumers would hire Saul Goodman instead of you, especially the Squat Cobblers.  Sixty-eight percent of lawyer headshots strongly resemble the main dude from ‘The Hills Have Eyes.‘  Your mentor thinks WordPerfect is the best legal software of all time.

In a recent experiment during which practicing attorneys were replaced with squirrels, legal consumers reported a significant increase in the number and volume of client communication, plus more chittering.  One of every two law firm logos contains a gavel, bookshelves, or Doric columns.  Forty-three percent of lawyers believe that the cloud is operated by a blue wizard named Tandoor.  Six of every ten attorneys are currently reviewing the 1843 Congressional Record for the session notes related to the debate on a bill during which Silas Wright, Jr., spent much of the time looking for his pomade, and they’re loving every fucking minute of it.  And with all that nonsense out of the way, back to you, Jared.

Jared Correia: If you want to find out more about James Rodgers, The Diversity Coach, visit jamesorodger.com.  That’s jamesorodgers.com.

Now, for those of you listening in Saint-Louis-du-Ha! Ha, Quebec, we’ve got a great Spotify playlist for you this week.  We’ve only got suites S-U-I-T-E-S which are songs with separate movements or parts.  This is an insanely long playlist.  It’s clocking in just a shade under three hours, so feel free to jump around like House of Maine.

I’ve run out of time here, so I won’t be able to share my feelings on the series finale of Seinfeld, so I guess, no suit for you.  Maybe next time.  This is Jared Correia reminding you that ‘Shaving Your Balls Isn’t The Solution To Everything, Sometimes It Just Seems Like It Is.‘

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