The Beatles, beloved by the world and quite possibly the greatest band of all time, had a break-up that left fans reeling for years. So, what went wrong? Jared analyzes the “Get Back” sessions, glories in the creativity and genius therein, and shares his take on who was really responsible for the band’s demise.
Next up, Jared brings on Jason Chan to chat about the shift to online networking brought about by the pandemic. Jason offers tips and tactics for fostering authentic connections and seeking out diverse contacts.
Finally, this time on the Rump Roast, Jared lays out a variety of team-building exercises tried by offices around the globe, and Jason must rate whether they’re worth trying… or giving a hard pass.
Jason Chan is the Principal of the Law Offices of Jason Chan.
In honor of the new Beatles ‘Get Back’ documentary on Disney+, here’s a collection of some of my favorite Beatles songs, from the White Album onward.
Our opening track is Two Cigarettes by Major Label Interest.
The music for the Legal Trends Report Minute is I See You by Sounds Like Sander.
Our closing track is New Girl by Noah Smith.
Special thanks to our sponsors TimeSolv, Clio, Scorpion, and Alert Communications.
Jared Correia: I’d like to take a moment to thank my mom for listening to every episode. Now, my mom is the real reason you’re listening to the show right now. But the sponsors have a little something to do with it as well so I’d like to thank our sponsors too; Clio, Scorpion, TimeSolv, Alert Communications. As the largest legal-only call center in the U.S., Alert Communications helps law firms and legal marketing agencies with new client intake. Alert captures your response to all leads 24/7 365 as an extension of your firm in both Spanish and English. Alert uses proven intake methods customizing responses as needed which earns the trust of clients and improves client retention. To find out how Alert can help your law office, call (866) 827-5568 or visit alertcommunications.com/ltn.
Intro: It’s the Legal Toolkit with Jared Correia. With guest Jason Chan, a round of creative team building and then spoiler warning. Jared shows how Clifford the Big Red Dog is clearly part of the Matrix Universe. This changes everything. But first, your host, Jared Correia.
Jared Correia: That’s right you all, it’s time for the Legal Toolkit Podcast. And yes, it’s still called Legal Toolkit despite the fact that my wife still won’t let me get a chainsaw. I’m your host, Jared Correia. Arsenio Hall was unavailable and I wonder what Arsenio’s doing right now. Probably in some good-ass cheese at a wine and cheese party. I’m the CEO of Red Cave Law Firm Consulting, a business management consulting service for attorneys and bar associations. Find us online at redcavelegal.com. I’m the CEO of Gideon Software, Inc. We build chatbots so law firms can convert more leads and conversational document assembly tools so law firms can build documents faster and more accurately. You can find out more about Gideon at gideonlegal.com.
Now, before we get to our interview today with Jason Chan from the Law Office of Jason Chan about online networking, I wanted to take a moment to talk about my favorite band. So I was talking with Legal Toolkit producer Evan Dicharry recently after we recorded the last show about these monologues and he suggested I try to hit some current topics. Clearly, I took offense to that. But then the very next weekend, I watched the Beatles: Get Back documentary on Disney Plus and I ran into movie theater which is a surprisingly amazing deal these days so my son and his friends could watch Ghostbusters Afterlife which starred geriatric Bill Murray and Dan Aykroyd. And I realized that the past is the present.
So I want to talk to you about that Beatles documentary which is just staggering by the way even though the footage was recorded well over 50 years ago. Get Back is a new spin on the Get Back recording sessions featuring more footage of the building of what would become the album Let It Be. And rather than writing songs separately as The Beetles have been doing more and more often after they stopped touring, they decided to come together in the studio to write an album that would culminate in a television special which eventually morphed into a live concert, the rooftop concert you probably seen or heard about.
Let It Be has a bad reputation. It’s known as The Beatles breakup album. It was in fact released about a week after their breakup. Critics didn’t like it and the accompanying documentary film that was released was kind of depressing frankly. There was this all-around bad vibe and it was painful in the way that ripping off a Band-Aid from a hairy arm would be painful hypothetically I guess. I wouldn’t know of course.
It’s kind of like a 10-minute version of All Too Well but instead of slamming Jake Gyllenhaal, the vitriol is aimed at the band members themselves. Though they have girlfriends and wives including Yoko Ono especially and Linda McCartney also came in for some criticism also, as everybody tried to figure out who broke up The Beatles, the greatest band of all time. Yeah, that’s right. The Beatles are the greatest band of all time.
I can be pretty contrarian at times but I won’t even debate that The Beatles are also my favorite bands of all time as it turns out. How could they not be? I mean, let’s face it. If your favorite band is a band that came before The Beatles, The Beatles are better than that band. And if your favorite band is a band that came after The Beatles, The Beatles heavily influenced them, and that’s pretty much the whole story.
Now I always liked Let It Be. I thought it was a really good album despite the reputation it had. I always felt like it was the most fun album The Beatles ever put out.
And the songs are awesome. Get Back and Let It Be are some of the top entries in Paul McCartney’s preposterous list of absolutely magnificent compositions. One After 909 and I’ve got a feeling of these jaunty rock songs that don’t take themselves too seriously. They could have been used to whip up the crowd at the Cavern Club back in the day. And One After 909 which is a Lennon song and Two of Us which is a McCartney song were early signs they resurrected for Let It Be to do the time constraints. And it shows, I mean these songs are full of youthful exuberance which you couldn’t necessarily say about other Beatles’ compositions of the time period.
Not to mention George coming off the top rope with I Me Mine and For You Blue, the latter of which features John Lennon on a fucking slide guitar? Yes, that’s right. Hell, Ringo even gets into the ACT, my guy Ringo composing Octopus’s Garden which would appear on Abbey Road, The Beatles last recorded album and penultimate album release.
What’s cool about the Get Back documentary was that it was largely confirming what I had always felt about Let It Be. That was a fun album because the band was back in studio together and was really having lots of fun making it. Now, the documentary is eight hours long but it flies by. Yeah, I know that sounds really weird to say and it is remarkable, honestly. Peter Jackson who directed The Lord of the Rings movies and his team have cleaned up the audio and video so it looks and sounds like the sessions were recorded yesterday. It’s like, totally pristine. Honestly, I could have watched 100 hours of this as it was I watched the entire eight-hour documentary in a weekend. Yeah, I know I need a hobby.
What was really interesting though about watching Get Back was not only seeing The Beatles interacting on this intimate level but also watching their process for creating songs. I always get the sense that they just did a couple takes that next song and moved along. Given their ridiculous output, that was the only thing that seemed to make any sense. But the number of iterations and versions they run through is truly impressive. McCartney is clearly a perfectionist and he’s the most workman like one in the entire group. He’s just relentless in ordering new takes to get it right. In fact, the film ends with Paul asking for another take because the rest of the band is killing over and exhaustion.
At one point, John Lennon is actually lying down playing his guitar because he’s so tired. The songcraft here is pretty painstaking but the results are great. Watching Paul McCartney drive through these songs are pretty terrific. He treats the whole thing like going to the office and clocking in while making a sound like that’s not how it happened at all. It really is amazing.
And probably the best scene of the whole documentary is when he’s sitting there strumming his guitar randomly while Ringo and Georgia falling asleep and he just comes up with the genesis of Get Back out of thin air just tossing off Get Back. He also apparently been in parkour because every time something goes wrong in the studio, he starts climbing the scaffolding or jumping around on the roof. I’ve always kind of gone back and forth between George Harrison and Paul McCartney being my favorite Beatles and I think I’m a Paul convert now. He just does everything right. And if anybody in the group is a genius, honestly, it’s him. He’s just sitting there at the piano coming up with these beautiful melodies out of either and he’s working out the lyrics with his best buddies. It sounds like a fun gig.
So I watched part of the documentary with my kids. They really like the rooftop concert footage and my daughter who’s six started spontaneously singing along to Dig a Pony, one of the most underrated John Lennon songs by about a mile by the way. I don’t think I’ve ever heard a six-year-old sing the lyric. You can syndicate every boat you wrote before and honestly, she probably has better understanding of the meaning than I do. My son was absolutely apoplectic that Don’t Let Me Down was not included on the album by the way. And it’s true. The Beatles just tossed off iconic non-album tracks all the time like it was nothing including also, Hey Jude, Paperback Writer and We Can Work it Out. It’s like they invented Spotify while simultaneously releasing some of the best albums of all time.
Furillo, Don’t Let Me Down should have been on the album. Phil Spector, yes, the murderer. Fuck that one up. When John Lennon and Paul McCartney asked him to finalize the Let It Be album so if you listen to Paul’s re-release called Let It Be Naked which came in 2003, Don’t Let Me Down is included on that one. There are a couple other tracks to get dropped and he rearranges the order of the other track. That’s an interesting lesson. Plus my son continues to insist that he doesn’t like Hey Jude even though he’d listen to the first part of the song and the non-app part of the song during the documentary and indicated that both of those are good songs. So there’s that.
But the one big question hanging over these recording sessions is always been, who broke up the Beatles? And canonically, it was always Paul or Yoko. Yoko Ono whose Lennon’s girlfriend at the time got the most flack probably.
But it’s clear from watching Get Back that Yoko didn’t break up The Beatles. I mean she was perfectly sweet. Most of the time, she just sat there silently listening and she doesn’t say anything inflammatory when she does say something. Occasionally, she screams into the microphone but that’s about it. At one point, Heather McCartney whose Paul’s adopted daughter, she is about seven years old at the time is in the studio and she just starts randomly screaming into the mic and everybody’s like, Yoko. That’s a really funny scene but there’s no animosity. And so Yoko didn’t break up The Beatles and it’s largely always been a misogynistic take that she did.
At one point, Paul even says 50 years from now, people are going to say Yoko broke up The Beatles because she sat on an amp in a mocking tone. That was actually pretty crushing. Paul didn’t bring up The Beatles either though even though he was the one who sued to get the partnership broken up after everybody left the group and he was the first one to formally leave when the irreconcilable differences hit. What’s clear from this documentary is that he very much wanted to keep the band together. At some point off camera before the proceedings, two major Beatles-related events happened. First, their manager Brian Epstein died at 32 from an overdose and two, Lennon seated the band leader role to Paul.
During the sessions, Paul makes the number of references to the fact that the band needs a babysitter. They do. And McCartney is far too much of a taskmaster to run a band this talented. Hey, there’s wings. At one point, after George Harrison briefly leaves the band and John Lennon doesn’t come up to work that day, Paul’s fighting back tears for a good minute before Lennon calls in to say he’s coming in to the studio that day thus, saving the day for now. But it is clear that John Lennon was the true bandleader before the events of Get Back and he was probably far more lenient than Paul and it probably worked out better because everybody in the group was so immensely talented and they needed room to operate.
By the way, it’s striking how coolly confident Lennon is in this documentary. He’s in full possession of his powers and almost everything seems to roll off his back. I’ve heard people refer to him as benevolent in this documentary and that’s kind of true. I mean, he gets a little frustrated in a private conversation with Paul and he seems a little nervous at the start of the rooftop concert because he probably haven’t performed live in six years but he’s otherwise cool as a cucumber. That’s why I can absolutely see why people gravitated to him.
Meanwhile, Ringo probably has the most chill of any human being on the planet and it seems like the best hang of the whole bunch. He’s just happy to be there watching everything go down as he let’s McCartney’s daughter play in his drum kit or his mashed potatoes for lunch and kindly lays down these unbelievable drum fills. If anybody broke up The Beatles, it was probably George Harrison. Now clearly, McCartney and Lennon view him as the lower-class of songwriter and musician than they were. Even if Paul’s more overt about it, at one point, Lennon says, when George leaves, let’s just replace him with Eric Clapton. But by 1969, it was more of a first among equals situation with George ripping off songs like Something, Here Comes the Sun and All Things Must Pass. Honestly, those tracks are as good or better than any that the Lennon and McCartney songwriting team ever wrote.
So when George walks out on the band, it’s understandable and he clearly wants to do his own thing. At one point, John and Yoko suggest that maybe they all do solo albums every now and come back together to be The Beatles from time to time. It seems like a good compromise but George clearly doesn’t want that. He wants to break off. And Paul only wants The Beatles to exist as they have and there’s a rupture. So I guess the answer to who broke up The Beatles is ultimately The Beatles. But it’s worth watching to see how it all goes down. Yes, everybody had a hard year, everybody had a wet dream and this was mine.
Now, before we get to our conversation about online marketing with Jason Chan, Principal of the Law Offices of Jason Chan, let the two of us listen to what Joshua Lenon has composed for us in this edition of the Clio Legal Trends Report minute.
Joshua Lenon: In 2020, 7% of legal professionals let go of their commercial office space in favor of maintaining a virtual practice and another 12% are unsure if they will keep their commercial office spaces in the future. I’m Joshua Lenon, Lawyer in Residence at Clio. There’s no question that beyond the pandemic, clients will still look for the convenience of remote meetings and online communication. Already, 56% of clients prefer videoconferencing over a phone call. For lawyers, this presents a major opportunity to reduce overhead saving upwards of $10,000 per lawyer and office expenditure. He cost savings here can both help with firm profit and be passed on to clients. To learn more about these opportunities and much more for free, download Clio’s Legal Trends Report at clio.com/trends. That’s Clio, spelled C-L-I-O.
Jared Correia: So let’s get to the cream in the middle of this Boston cream pie, that is this podcast. It’s time to interview our guest. I have a great guest today. My friend Jason Chan, he’s the principal of the Law Offices of Jason Chan. Jason, welcome to the show my friend. How you doing?
Jason Chan: Jared, good seeing you.
Jared Correia: Yeah, this is great. We’ve been back in touch for a little bit here. It’s been great talking with you. So you are like, you’re great. I’m going to tell people you’re great networker especially online and that’s what we’re going to get to. So let me set the stage for people. You’re there cruising along, you got your successful criminal law practice. You do in the in-person networking thing, take people out for lunch, shaking hands, kissing babies, 2020 rolls around, COVID. Everybody is stuck inside. For somebody like you, how did you adjust to that?
Jason Chan: I mean, I think that’s exactly right because in the years past, you can really be in the same room with someone, shake their hand, look them in the eye and I think that’s kind of how we all expected how networking was going to happen for the rest of our lives.
Jared Correia: Right.
Jason Chan: And when didn’t happen like that, we had to have these other things that we had to get comfortable with, right? The first time I think I heard about this cool new app called Zoom and download it on my computer and it was a really different way to network with people. It’s certainly more efficient but with Zoom, it’s definitely lot more impersonal. But there’s also other ways.
Jared Correia: Were you not using video conferencing until the pandemic hit?
Jason Chan: We we’re just in court all the time so there wasn’t a ton of time for us to talk to people. In fact, most of the times that my law partner and I was speaking with people was we’re in the car. So we’re allotting a lot of hours on the phone but we weren’t doing much videoconferencing at all.
Jared Correia: Right. So all that windshield time, all of a sudden turns into videoconference time.
Jason Chan: And I liked it much more. And the other big issue too we shared that our clients really had a resistant towards like, “Well, I don’t know about this futuristic technology. Like, how do I do this?” But then they transitioned and most of the times, we have people request on their end that can we do a Zoom instead of me driving to see you. So it was actually a big shift because of that. The people just got comfortable with that technology.
Jared Correia: Yeah. This may be an appropriate time to say I’ve had a Zoom account since 2011 which I’m pretty proud of. But in terms of the networking stuff, it seems like your referral sources, the people you talk with in business, they adjusted pretty quickly too? How soon did you start doing like the online networking stuff?
Jason Chan: They went right away. So I think there was still some resistance at the beginning of people saying, “Well, this would probably last a week or two. It should be back to banquets and halls and seminars of 500 people in a month” but it just didn’t happen. And the people who kind of went down the road and say, “Oh, wait until this whole thing is over before I start networking” and now have probably been this frozen state for about a year, right?
Jared Correia: I know. Yeah. So, for you, it sounds like you weren’t doing any kind of online networking prior to the pandemic. Is that right or is that wrong?
Jason Chan: Almost zero. I would say very infrequent and it may have been one person here and there. But really, I mean, it’s just mostly phone calls, very, very little online networking at all.
Jared Correia: So you said people were resistant to start networking initially, how did you get people to come out of their shells to talk to you in a different way? Like how did you convince them or did you have to or did they just start figuring out after a while?
Jason Chan: I don’t think it was convincing people. I think they started realizing themselves that this is going to be probably what they call the new norm, right? This is probably something that they need to transition to. And I think a lot of the lawyers that didn’t want to get into that kind of decided if they want to change jobs or if they just wanted to early retire. That’s kind of the same stuff that I hear about a lot saying, “Well, with this new world, I don’t really want to be involved with that. I’m going to do something completely different,” right? So I think that is kind of the sad part of this whole process was there were people who kind of decided that they were going to move on from the practice of law.
Jared Correia: Yeah, creating opportunities for younger attorneys too in a lot of cases.
Jason Chan: For sure.
Jared Correia: Now, you’re also involved in some online networking groups pretty extensively as well and one I’ll mention is ProVisors. You lead one of their local groups?
Jason Chan: Yeah.
Jared Correia: So for a dude like you, right, you weren’t doing any online networking at all. Now, like, a year and a half later, you’re leading a group of people in, wait for it, online networking. I think a lot of people would love to do something like that. So how do you make the transition so quickly and get to that leadership position so fast?
Jason Chan: Yeah. So I made a conscious effort. The thing about online networking is that you need to see what it is and also see what kind of like the things that’s not, right? So, there’s benefits to online networking because you can reach many people at one time in one place that you would never otherwise be able to reach. The problem with online networking for a lot of people is it’s not as personal. So you really have to be able to kind of gate that reach and then you can follow up later with one on one phone calls with in-person meeting.
Even during the pandemic, I went on a hike with someone outdoors, right? We were more than six feet away. We’re probably like 10 feet away and we’re just kind of hanging out, but that was someone that I really wanted to be. But normally, I wouldn’t have gotten to that point until you kind of sift through a lot of people who maybe once in a lifetime would get you a case, once a year maybe send you a case. But that individual I went to meet is someone that probably calls me once a week. Not something that I necessarily would pick up but there’s a chance.
So I would say probably once a month is something that would be appropriate but they think of me all the time and building that relationship was something that started on Zoom and later on can move to something more personal even in the pandemic world though. I can’t live with people who sit in two different cars or sitting across the big table from each other. It’s almost impossible to have 300 individual lunches but you could be in a Zoom room with a couple hundred people. That’s not a big deal.
Jared Correia: Hey, I mean, I think it’s an interesting analogy because that was similar to what you would do anyway. Like even if you were going to an in-person event, this fall of criteria, like you’re not — somebody’s not going to be like, “Hey, thanks for the tea. I’m going to send you a million referrals now.” You got to keep on that relationship. And it’s the same type of thing, just different. And so, how were you able to like get up into the ranks of a group like this so quickly and like take over a section of that group? How did that happen? Do you have any advice for people who want to do something like that? Were you just really active? How did you try to get to that point?
Jason Chan: Yeah, so it’s many different things. I think sometimes you look into people who kind of mentor you through certain things. A lot of the things is obviously be active but also kind of be aware. So be aware of kind of what you’re trying to do. So the big thing is just kind of, if you can help in other people to kind of grow their practice, that’s the best way to try to get people to like you, right?
Jared Correia: Yeah.
Jason Chan: It’s like, “Oh wow. These are his clients. They’re trying to think about being this way.” And also, we’re very singular focus in terms of our practice, right? We practice criminal defense. So where other people will call us regarding any other area type of law, we’ll have to kind of farm it out. So naturally, we’re good referral sources for people especially lawyers and CPA’s but people need real estate agents, people need mortgage brokers and bankers and sometimes they’ll call me and I’m like, “You don’t need a lawyer. What you need is an accountant.” But for someone who maybe hasn’t really had a lot of experience with the law or accountants, they wouldn’t know. I have no idea what I need. I have a problem, right? Jared, that’s it. They know they got an issue. They know they need help but they don’t know where to go.
So they give me a call and I say, “Hey, you should talk to X, Y and Z” and that’s why these groups have been good for me because as I expand my own network, because it in the eyes of my clients, they’re like, “Wow, Jason really is the person that knows a lot of people.”
Jared Correia: Yeah. So that’s a good point you bring up too. Let’s talk about that a little bit because I know a lot of lawyers who like they like to talk with other lawyers. I don’t know what they do. Maybe they go somewhere and speak Latin to each other back and forth. But like, I’ve always felt like you got to expand your network as an attorney because lawyers all have like the nuclear option which is like, if they want to take on a client, they can do it. But if somebody, a real estate agent who needs to find an attorney who’s going to do a closing, they got to get an attorney to do that largely. So how important is it for people to find non-lawyers in affiliated professions to network with including online?
Jason Chan: Oh my goodness. I mean you really have to figure out your own practice in terms of what’s going to be the most useful for you. So for me, when I say lawyers refer to me cases, there are particular lawyers that refer me much more often than other attorneys, right? And when you think about non-lawyers, financial planners are great people for me to meet, just anyone in a trusted position. The question is, who is that person going to call when they’re in a situation like, “Oh my God, the FBI just kicked out my door.” Who are they going to call? They’re generally not going to talk to their healthcare guy, they’re probably not going to talk to HR, they’re probably not going to be talking to their marketer and say, “Oh yeah, Bob being indicted by the feds.” So we’re all busy Jared and I think the big thing is that people need to be thoughtful about their process to say, “Okay. This is what I’m actually providing my clients.
This is what’s going to happen when my client has a problem and these are the people they’re going to want to talk to.” Then the people in turn, you want to be talking to, right? So account works for me. Yeah, accounts for me are great because it’s like people talk about accounts about all types of problems. The IRS is on my behind for X, Y and Z, right? “Oh, hold on, you may want to talk to Jason.” So I think that’s the big thing. I’m sure you get this a lot Jared that people say, “Oh, I can’t network because don’t have enough time.” And you’re never going to make more time so in order to use your time more efficiently, you need to be very thoughtful about who you’re trying to network with, what professions and then find out where they hang out and go to those networking groups.
Jared Correia: I love it man, that’s great. Now, our related topic which I think you and I are on the same page about it’s like, a lot of people like to talk to their peers in the sense of like they’re all hanging out in the same age group all the time. But for me, man, I want people above my age group who have more connections, more money, right? I want to be networking with Boomers. So how do you get out of that mindset of like I just want to talk to people who are like me because I think a lot of people have that issue to when it comes to networking.
Jason Chan: You really hit something. The guy that I told you was calling me I would say once a month. I think his son is my age.
Jared Correia: Yeah. There you go. Perfectly beautiful, yeah. We didn’t even plan this.
Jason Chan: Right. I swear to god we didn’t. But I think his son’s my age and he’s a great lawyer but he’s exactly the type of person that I want because his clients have been with him for no less than 40 years of actual practicing. So when his clients call up, they’ll say, “Well, so and so told me to call you,” you’re my guy. I don’t care. Like I have more trust in them than my own kid, right? So it’s amazing.
And that’s the big thing that people have to get out these mindsets that I’m only going to hang out with whoever and they really need to expand out on that and mentor groups are great, right? You get a mentor, these other events where there’s attracting lawyers from all types of industries but also all types of age groups but also different types of industries too overall. I mean, it may be Chamber of Commerce type of situation where it’s not just attorneys.
Jared Correia: I got one more question for you and we’ll end here. So let’s say for example, god willing, rather this pandemic at some point, in-person networking is back like it was before, how do you split your time then?
Jason Chan: Yeah, so that’s a really good question. I think ultimately, what is going to happen is it’s probably going to be either 50/50 or 75/25. And honestly, I don’t even know which direction yet. I don’t know if it’s by end of…
Jared Correia: Yeah, I was going to ask you which way.
Jason Chan: I don’t know. I assume. So what we see, right, that everyone is just clamoring to be back together which I get it but then, I’m guessing when it’s like snowing out like people are going to be like, “Working downtown really sucks.”
Jared Correia: Right.
Jason Chan: So we ultimately may see it being somewhat weather dependent and I’ve noticed that over the summertime that more people are like, “Yeah, let’s go on a picnic. Let’s go grab one shot at a park bench.” But then now as the winter is starting to roll in, there’s more and more people saying, “Well, Zoom is convenient. So do you mind just doing a quick Zoom or a phone call?” So I think it’s going to be someone’s dependent on the people that you want to network with and also, what time of year it is. New England especially.
Jared Correia: Right. So for those of you in California, just keep networking as you have always done. Jason, this is a lot of fun. Can you hang around for another segment?
Jason Chan: Would love to.
Jared Correia: Awesome. All right, we’ll take one final sponsor break so you can hear more about what our sponsors can do for your life practice. Then stay tuned for the rump roast. It’s even more supple than the roast beast.
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Welcome to the rear-end of the Legal Toolkit.
As promised, it’s the rump roast again. It’s a grab bag of short form topics all of my choosing. Why do I get to pick? Because I’m the host. Jason, I think you do a great job with your networking events as I mentioned before so I want to get a sense of what you would and would not be willing to try in terms of those sort of activities. So I wanted to run some team-building sessions by you just to see whether they will get the Jason Chan stamp of approval. I’m going to mention some of these activities and I want you to tell me how likely you would be to actually try these things in your own network groups on a scale of one to five, with one being the least likely and five being the most likely. Are you ready?
Jason Chan: I’m ready.
Jared Correia: And we’ve talked about some of this stuff before. So, I want to start with number one, and I should mention the reason I bring this up is because I think you plan really cool get-togethers for your online networking groups. I know you haven’t tried this one, axe throwing. This has become very popular across the country. People go to bars. I don’t think the bars actually, I think that’s probably a bad idea. But they get their flannels on, they throw axes and try to hit a target. What are your feelings on axe throwing as a team building or networking activity?
Jason Chan: I mean that’s a five but if it has a picture of your rump on there, that’s like a 10. So between a five and a 10.
Jared Correia: That’s fair. I’ve been known to sit on the copier here and there. All right. Let’s move on. What do you think about awards ceremonies? Are you fan of the office at all?
Jason Chan: Oh, my God. (00:31:30) done these, yeah, absolutely.
Jared Correia: Yes. So, for those who don’t know on The Office television show, they hand out these awards at this annual event every year and they go horribly wrong. Phyllis is awarded the busiest Beaver award. Stanley got the fine work award. I was just reading this. Pam from the office, she won the whitest sneakers award. Would you do something like that with a networking group and rate it for me on a scale of one to five. Is it as good as axe throwing?
Jason Chan: I it’s like four and a half. I think I definitely would do it but I think some of the race year ones we might have to kick out.
Jared Correia: That’s fair. All right, I gave you the easiest ones first. Now, I want to tell you about some team-building activities that went wrong and I want you to tell me if you could fix these. So I’m going to read you a little bit here. Number one is a juice cleanse.
Jason Chan: Oh God.
Jared Correia: Team juice cleanse has emerged as a popular office fad around a decade ago. At one point, juice companies reported that they made as much as 30% of their business from office cleanses. Now, women make up two-thirds of all juicing enthusiasts, which I didn’t know is a term, but corporate cleanses are predominantly male and they’re undertaken by hedge funds. Interesting enough, law firms and investment banks.
So, one person who participated in a juice cleanse said that in 2012, his entire team participated in a three-day 18 juice cleanse, that sounds aggressive, which was called an excavation and was meant to engage the team in a shared experience and boost productivity. The only thing that accomplished really was the excavation part. So, right after they finished the juice cleanse, everyone is in the bathroom and the guy who participated in this, so the bathroom was straight up like the line to ride the teacups in Disneyland. The whole office was just exploding with all kinds of noises and set us back a week in terms of productivity. So what do you think, man? Do you think you could actually pull off a juice cleanse? Would you try it or would that be like a one on your scale?
Jason Chan: I mean, I think that’s like a zero. I don’t think that’s going to happen unless you take out the cleanse part, maybe we’ll just drink some juice together. So that’s like a three.
Jared Correia: That’s not a bad idea. I’m a big blueberry juice fan. If you get blueberry juice happening, I’ll be there.
Jason Chan: I have not have that before but I’m definitely going to try it now
Jared Correia: Blueberry juice is excellent. I recommend it. They are not a sponsor of this podcast but Wyman says, excellent blueberry juice. Folks you should know that. We got two more for you. The next one is called horse whispering. I don’t know if you’ve ever heard of this. One participant reports, “My team did horse whispering where you work with horses to learn about great communication. I don’t really see how this is possible but one of the horses got overexcited, galloped toward the center of the barn where we were being briefed and nearly trampled one of my co-workers. It was a bonding experience to a certain extent but only because we all thought we were going to die.” Would you try horse whispering and how would you rate that on a scale of one to five?
Jason Chan: I would definitely try doing that. That sounds amazing and I will make sure the co-worker I didn’t like was at the back of the horse.
Jared Correia: Well-played. All right, you’re doing right here. I only got one more for you. I saved the best one for last.
Jason Chan: Here we go.
Jared Correia: Here’s a little story. Managers at a Swedish Telephone Company were trying to organize a memorable team building exercise for their international sales conference.
And so, they decided to turn to, wait for it, hijacking. The manager hired two men with masks and weapons to stage a hijacking of the employees taking them to another venue. The exercise was reportedly designed to test the employees’ cool under stress. However, they couldn’t quite pull it off because as soon as they kidnapped all their employees, someone called the police. Hijacking, what do you say? Yay or nay? Staged hijacking I should say, staged.
Jason Chan: Well, I mean it is staged but I’m probably going to still be a hard pass though because there seems like a lot liability issues there.
Jared Correia: And this is why we talk to lawyers. Jason, thank you.
Jason Chan: I appreciate it. Thank you.
Jared Correia: Thanks for coming on.
Jason Chan: This was great.
Jared Correia: Yes, that was tons of fun literally. It was at least 4,000 pounds of fun. Come on back one of these days, you willing to?
Jason Chan: Absolutely. Beyond as much as you would want me.
Jared Correia: If you want to find out more about Jason Chan and the Law Offices of Jason Chan, visit attorneychan.com. That’s A-T-T-O-R-N-E-Y C-H-A-N .com. attorneychan.com. Now, for those of you listening in Liverpool, we’ve got a Spotify playlist this week that covers some of my favorite late period Beatles songs. Unfortunately, we didn’t have time for me to reveal all of the connections and there are a lot between Clifford the Big Red Dog and the Matrix and Nomadic Universe. But I will have some things to say about the Smurf sequel at some point that would really blow your mind. Those little blue bastards. That will do it for another episode of the Legal Toolkit Podcast where Lovely Rita is our favorite Beatles song or at least it’s mine.
Podcast transcription by Tech-Synergy.com