Your Intake Mistakes; Leveraging Modern Phone Systems; and “Kiwi Colloquialisms”

Episode Notes

Transcript

Jared Correia: I’d like to take a moment to thank my mom for listening to every episode.  Now, my mom is the real reason you’re listening to this show right now, but the sponsors have a little something to do with it as well.  So, I’d like to thank our sponsors too.  Clio, Scorpion, TimeSolv, Alert Communications.

As the largest legal-only call center in the U.S., Alert Communications helps law firms and legal marketing agencies with new client intake.  Alert captures your response to all of these 24/7, 365 as an extension of your firm in both Spanish and English.  Alert uses proven intake methods customizing responses as needed which earns the trust of clients and approves client retention.  To find out how Alert can help your law office, call 866-827-5568 or visit alertcommunications.com/ltn.

[Music]

Intro: It’s the Legal Toolkit with Jared Correia.  With guest Chelsea Aitken around the Kiwi Colloquialisms.  And then, which size of dog makes for the best attorney.  We’ve studied this fundamental question for years and the results will shock you.  But first, your host, Jared Correia.

Jared Correia: It’s the Legal Toolkit Podcast, ladies and gentlemen.  I’m your host Jared Correia.  Mike Richards is lawyering up, so he is unavailable and now his last podcast was kind of inflammatory anyway.  I’m the CEO of Red Cave Law Firm Consulting, a business management consulting service for attorneys and bar associations.  Find us online at www.redcavelegal.com.  I’m the COO of Gideon Software, Inc.  We build chatbots so law firms can grow more leads and conversational document assembly tools so law firms can build documents faster and more accurately.  You can find out more about Gideon at www.gideonlegal.com.

Before we get to our interview today with Chelsea Aitken from Vxt, I want to talk about law firm intake or the lack thereof.  Law firm intake.  Maybe I should call it “outtake” as in take out the trash because most law firm intake is hot garbage, the hottest of garbage in fact.  Lawyers spend tons of money on generating leads and even when they are not, they are expending lots of effort trying to build a network of referral sources, yeah, you know how this goes, that will pass along leads to the law firm.

Now, you’d think in that context, most law firms would work super hard or fall all over themselves really to actually engage those leads when they get to the law firm website or pick up the phone and give the law firm a call.  Only that’s not at all what happens.  One-third of the time, law firms don’t even answer when a legal consumer and potential client calls them.  That’d be cool I suppose if law firms didn’t also totally ignore voicemail to the tune of 64% of law firm voicemails being ignored.  It takes an average of 80 emails to schedule an appointment with a law firm.

Potential clients landing on a website are usually greeted by stark(ph) intake forms and they fill them out for lack of any better options, what else are you going to do.  And then what happens?  Let’s explore this.  Well, as far as the legal consumer is concerned, absolutely nothing happens.  When that intake information disappears into a black hole, you can just feel that closing opportunity spaghettifying in real time.  I’m getting goosebumps frankly.  In case this is not immediately obvious, all of that is bad like very bad and not the Michael Jackson kind of bad.  You may have noticed that there’s still a pandemic on, I know I have, and that has among other things massively accelerate the convenience economy.  But you may ask, “What is the convenience economy?”  That’s a great question.  Essentially, it means that modern businesses have to cater to the convenience of modern consumers.  Let me give you some examples.

That’s why you stream movies and television shows online instead of actually going to the movies.  That’s why you order from DoorDash instead of driving two minutes to the local pizza place.  So, quick follow-up question:  Does any of what I described as law firm intake processes above seem like they might be convenient for the legal consumer?  Nope, that’s right.

Now, it may be convenient for the law firm and that probably would’ve been able to work in 2015, but not now.  So, and all that shit happens, all that stuff that I described above.  Do you have an idea of what modern impatient potential legal clients do?  Yes, that’s right, they’re going to start looking for another law firm, and immediately.

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I can tell you what they’re not going to do, they’re not going to be waiting for your ass to call them back next week.  Seriously, you might as well take all that time, effort and money you spend on marketing instead of torch(ph).  Or better yet, just set up a store on SC.  Wait a second, do people even use SC anymore?  Below, there is a light at the end of the tunnel.  Lawyers felt latest of late adopters are starting to come around.

Over the course of the last year, more and more law firms are connecting me to talk about intake processes, intake workflows.  It’s great.  And that’s definitely a step-up from suggesting that they have a sinking suspicion that they’re not efficient, but they don’t exactly know why.  Spoiler alert, this is one of the reasons why.  Better news is that given the state of modern technology and the ability to automate more and more route tasks, it’s actually easier than ever for law firms to build and manage a client journey which is what this is called as intake “process”.

Now, a complete intake pathway is going to involve a lot of components from qualification tools to e-signature tools to e-payments and additional features beyond that potentially and legal consumers are going to want to know more about the legal process.  They want to know they have experience with their particular case type.  You can help them and that you’re authentic.  And engaging legal consumers online as part of that process can include things like click-call functionality, mobile for websites, landing pages, chat, scheduling tools and more.  How much more?  Well, shit, I charge for consulting, I’m not going to tell you everything.

Now, before we talk to our guest, Chelsea Aitken of Vxt, about leveraging phone systems and also some New Zealand stuff, let’s see what kind of status Joshua Lenon dialed up for you.  Sorry, I think my voice just crashed Bobby Brady style, but I’m persevering.  That’s right, it’s the Clio Legal Trends Report right now.  No, now.

[Music]

Joshua Lenon: It’s a fact, solo law firms tend to benefit from technology adoption 35% more than larger law firms.  This is based on data that shows how key technology solutions for lawyers help solo practitioners earn $50,000 more than other firms on a per lawyer basis.  I’m Joshua Lenon, Lawyer in Residence at Clio.

In today’s world, technology is like online payments, client portals and client intake software help lawyers deliver the types of online services that had become essential to legal practice.  But while solo law firms tend to benefit the most, we’ve also seen that they’ve been slower to adopt these types of cloud technologies that today’s clients look for.  To learn more about the unique advantages that solo attorneys have over other law firms and much more for free, download Clio’s Legal Trends Report for solo law firms at clio.com/solo, that’s Clio, spelled C-L-I-O.

[Music]

Jared Correia: Since this is a special occasion, let’s break out the hanji(ph) and talk about phone systems.  My guest today is Chelsea Aitken, Chief Customer Officer at Vxt.  Chelsea, welcome to the show.

Chelsea Aitken: Thanks for having me.

Jared Correia: So, let’s talk about this podcast that you’re on right now.  Unlike some of my other guests who shall remain nameless, you’ve actually listened to this podcast before.  What do you think of our new format?

Chelsea Aitken: I love it.

Jared Correia: Great.

Chelsea Aitken: I think it’s good.  It’s always surprising listening to it, a legal podcast and I love the games at the end.

Jared Correia: Great.  So, you listen to the podcast, you still came on, that’s great.

Chelsea Aitken: Yes.

Jared Correia: Last time, I talked a little about C.S. Lewis, he’s a 1950s author in the UK who wrote The Chronicles of Narnia.  I understand that you’ve been reading a lot during the pandemic.

Chelsea Aitken: Yes, I have been.

Jared Correia: So, you got any book recommendations for me?

Chelsea Aitken: Well, I think I’m a bit later to the game with this one, but I just finished Educated by Tara Westover.

Jared Correia: See, I don’t even know what that is, so I’m even later to the game.  So, can you talk about the book and the author?

Chelsea Aitken: Yeah, of course.  So, Tara grew up in rural Idaho and it’s really interesting.  So, she was from a very strict parenting background where they — I don’t if extremist is the right word, but where more men —

Jared Correia: You said “Idaho”, right?

Chelsea Aitken: Yes.

Jared Correia: Sorry, now everyone from Idaho is going to hate me.  Go on, please.

Chelsea Aitken: That had quite extremist views, they don’t believe in public schools, so she wasn’t really educated at all while she was young and then into that, getting her PhD from Harvard, so it’s just her journey through that.

Jared Correia: That’s cool.

Chelsea Aitken: And she’s quite an incredible lady.

Jared Correia: So, that was your best top book during the pandemic reading —

Chelsea Aitken: Yeah, it was.

Jared Correia: And she’s still ongoing.

Chelsea Aitken: Yeah, I was glued to it.

Jared Correia: Cool.

(00:10:01)

Chelsea Aitken: Yeah.  I think I finished it in a day, so —

Jared Correia: Wow.

Chelsea Aitken: I know.

Jared Correia: That’s impressive.

Chelsea Aitken: Thank you.  I’m not normally that quick of a reader, but there wasn’t really much else to do.

Jared Correia: Right, tell me about it.  All right, let’s talk about legal technology, phone systems.  Phone systems are kind of like the red-headed stepchild of technology in some ways.  I think people are just like, “Oh, the phone.”  The phone is like always here.  I’m always talking on the phone.  But I think the importance of phone systems has been really underscored during the pendency of this whole pandemic that never seems to end.

So, I know that when I was talking to law firms and everybody was all of the sudden virtual, unplanned, people were like, “Wow, we can’t answer the phones if we’re not in the office.”  And for some reason, nobody thought of this challenge before.  But the number of law firms I noticed that were switching to more modern phone systems, VoIP phone systems post-pandemic has been a real upsurge.

So, I’m wondering if you’re going to talk a little bit about that because that’s I think an important issue for attorneys like modern phone systems for attorneys, the priority of VoIP, how you manage that in this setting, which is not going away anytime soon?

Chelsea Aitken: Yeah, what you said is really interesting because that’s exactly what we found as well.  Before the pandemic, phone systems obviously weren’t great and they had their challenges, but it was a kind of like why fix what’s not broken.  There was kind of no reason to look into changing them and I think the pandemic really did there.

So, VoIP has obviously been around for a while, but I think now that the internet is a lot better and more reliable, it’s where it’s really coming into fruition.  So —

Jared Correia: Let me just stop you for a second.

Chelsea Aitken: Yeah.

Jared Correia: Just in case people are listening don’t know, can you explain what VoIP is?  And then please continue on.

Chelsea Aitken: Sure.  So, VoIP means Voice over IP, so it’s essentially just calls that happen over the internet.  So, anyway, it’s just equate into a call over using Facebook Messenger.

Jared Correia: There you go. Now, go ahead, I stopped you in train of thought there.

Chelsea Aitken: Yeah.  So, in order to actually like build our product, we interviewed over a hundred lawyers, so that’s where I got a lot of this information from and it really was going into lockdown that made people more look into flexible systems and move away from just the hard phones because I think many were in their home.  Exactly what you said though like, “Wow, I can’t call people.  I can’t receive my calls.”  So, actually, that was a big mover towards VoIP and soft phones.

Jared Correia: Now, that’s an interesting thing too, so let’s talk a little bit about soft phones because I’m not sure what that means either.  So, hard phones are phones in an office setting like usually wired phones that sit on somebody’s desk.  Now, what’s a soft phone?

Chelsea Aitken: So, a soft phone is normally an app on your desktop or your mobile phone that you make calls through.  Yeah, essentially like an app or it’s just any type of product that can be used through a device instead of their hard desk phone that we’re all used to.

Jared Correia: So, when I talk to people about this, I often say that like the biggest value of the cloud is this device diagnostic which means that like you can use any kind of app on any kind of system that has a secure internet access portal.  So, this is great for phones and I don’t think people think of it often with phones.  So, this means you can make calls on your iPad, this means you can make calls from another phone using a different number from the app, right?  This opens up a ton of possibilities for people.

Chelsea Aitken: Yeah, it does.  And it’s quite interesting because it’s not something that’s that new either.  Like I mentioned before, Facebook Messenger like we’ve been making calls through apps for a while, but I think the idea is we’ve all got it quite and clear and I heard that when we think phone and when we think calling, we say that hard telephone.  So, that’s been quite interesting working with a lot of our customers about that as some people just find it really hard to change their line of thinking of to actually see a phone is something that’s sits on your laptop or another app.

Jared Correia: Mindset change for lawyers is so hard and continues to be.  So, let’s flesh this out a little bit because I think this is really interesting and I think your company is pivotal a little bit too on this, is the idea of a phone system is so much broader than it’s ever been before.  So, could you talk to me about like what a modern phone system means versus a traditional phone system, and then what features should you be looking for in a modern phone system as a law firm?

Chelsea Aitken: That’s a good question.  So, traditional phone systems, I normally refer to them as anything that requires a hard phone.  So, when you have your telephone that sits on your desk and what we’ve all been used to for the last — for time, really and then a more modern —

(00:15:07)

Jared Correia: You don’t remember back to rotary dial phones, do you?

Chelsea Aitken: No.

Jared Correia: That’s an old school phone system.  I’ve actually used a rotary dial in my life.  Yeah, it took forever to dial, you’re just back and forth, back and forth, so —

Chelsea Aitken: And then more modern phone systems like we spoke about, so VoIP soft phones.  And what that means is I think the biggest thing is that it gives you flexibility.  You can log into your phone.  So, I think that’s a big part of wherever you are, wherever device you have as long as it’s secure, you can log in to your phone and make calls.  So, that’s one thing.

And I think of really big thing that firms should be looking for in terms of modern phone systems, and it’s the same is what you should be looking for in a lot of new tech is integration.  So, interoperability with all your software and tech that you’re already using.

Jared Correia: Yeah.  So, let’s talk a little bit about that because I think that’s one of the biggest assets here.  So, as soon as you have a cloud phone system essentially which is what this is, now you can connect to other cloud systems.  So, how do you go about educating attorneys on how and why they do that?

Chelsea Aitken: I think what came up a lot in the interviews we did, a huge pinpoint that we picked up was the lack of integrations with practice management systems.  So, it wasn’t something that lawyers aren’t aware of that that’s a pinpoint already, having to put your data and information around phone calls into your practice management system, but it’s something that we found that lawyers didn’t necessarily know that there’s a solution for that through integrations.

So, I think when we’re demoing our product or when we’re interviewing people and we’re talking to people actually showing them how that works, that this data, file notes, time recording, everything can be just automatically sent and — to Clio, your equivalent of a practice management system.  So, I think that education actually comes around letting people know that there is actually a solution out there.

Jared Correia: And so, when you think about all the different features of the law practice management software has and all the applications that a phone system could utilize, and you mentioned one, time and billing, right?  So, you can track the time of the phone call, pop it into your time and billing system and begin to generate a line item on an invoice, right?  You’re talking about specific features like that.  So, there’s features you highlight for lawyers when you talk about how well a system like this could work?

Chelsea Aitken: Yeah, definitely.  So, what we call it is phone call admin, and that’s what we found is extremely prevalent in the legal industry and also in other —

Jared Correia: Wait, what do you call it?

Chelsea Aitken: Phone call admin.

Jared Correia: Phone call admin, okay.

Chelsea Aitken: Yeah.  So, basically, we just —

Jared Correia: I’ve actually never heard that before.

Chelsea Aitken: Yeah, that’s probably because we just kind of made it up.

Jared Correia: You invented it.  Nice.

Chelsea Aitken: It’s just to describe all those extra talks that lawyers have to do around making a phone call.  If they have to take a file note, if they gave advice on — the contents of the conversation, then like I said, a lot of lawyers then have to record their time, they have to log that the phone call happened.  So, it’s all of that extra stuff and with making phone calls, we’re already capturing that data, so it’s just a matter of through that integration automatically sending it to practice management system.

And from our side, it’s not that hard to do, but it can save so much time because if you’re spending 5 to 10 minutes per call of collecting all that phone call admin, that can add up and especially lawyers that bill in six-minute increments, it really does matter.

Jared Correia: Well, it’s interesting because I think a lot of people think of phone calls, all lawyers, is like a single instance.  But you’re right, there’s a ton of data tied to that.

Chelsea Aitken: Exactly.

Jared Correia: And I’m sure talk about this with law firms as well, but part of this is also the more data you collect, the more reporting you can do, the more business intelligence you get, the better business decisions you can make, right?  That can all spring from something as simple as a phone call, right?

Chelsea Aitken: Yeah, definitely.  And that’s something we heard again from our customers a lot and have looked into launching.  We actually just launched the MVP of it that a data dashboard, that clicks all that data around phone calls, how many missed calls, how long do people waiting on hold and all that information and — yeah, it’s been quite awesome to say how well-received it’s been.

Jared Correia: Yeah, that’s amazing.  I think phone systems are so important to lawyers and yet so overlooked and I think there’s a lot of room in that space for attorneys to come in and access a lot of these features.  That’s fantastic.  Chelsea, thank you so much.  That’s Chelsea Aitken from Vxt.  Now, don’t fret because Chelsea will be right back.  We’ll take one final sponsor break so you can hear more about what our sponsors can do for your law practice then stay tuned for the rump roast.  It’s even more supple than the roast beast.

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[Music]

Jared Correia: Imagine billing day being the happiest day of the month instead of the day you dread.  Nobody went to law school because they love drafting invoices for clients and chasing overdue bills.  At TimeSolv, our attorneys have the tools to achieve a 97% collection rate, that means more revenue for the same work and turning billing day into happy day.  Learn more about how to get to your time and billing happy place at timesolv.com.

Now more than ever, an effective marketing strategy is one of the most important things your law firm can have and Scorpion can help.  With nearly 20 years of experience serving legal industry, Scorpion has proven methods to help you get the high-value case you deserve.  Join thousands of attorneys across the country or turn to Scorpion for effective marketing and technology solutions.  For a better way to grow your practice, visit scorpionlegal.com.

[Music]

Jared Correia: Welcome back everybody.  We’re here again at the rear end of the Legal Toolkit, the rump roast.  It’s a grab bag of short foreign topics all of my choosing.  This will be a fun one.  This is like my favorite part of the show.  So, Chelsea, I think everybody listening to the show can immediately tell you’re from New Jersey, right?

Chelsea Aitken: Yes, New Jersey.

Jared Correia: Wait, wait, wait.  No, I got that wrong.  New Zealand, right?

Chelsea Aitken: Yes, yes.

Jared Correia: Right, right.  Sorry, I get mixed up sometimes.

Chelsea Aitken: That’s completely fine.

Jared Correia: Of course, you’re from New Zealand.  So, we’ve talked about this a little bit pre-show, I’ve always been interested in New Zealand.  I did my fifth grade geography report on New Zealand.  I remember it well.

Chelsea Aitken: Wow.

Jared Correia: My brother-in-law actually lives in New Zealand with his wife, he’s from New Zealand and I also know that The Lord of the Rings was made in New Zealand.

Chelsea Aitken: Yes.

Jared Correia: Any other facts about New Zealand do you like to share before I jump into this?

Chelsea Aitken: What I thought you would be interested in is Narnia was actually filmed in parts of New Zealand.

Jared Correia: I didn’t even know that.  Wow.

Chelsea Aitken: Yeah.  I thought you’d like that fact.

Jared Correia: I’m just blown.  Yeah, that is a great way.  You’re bringing in the heat, Chelsea.  I appreciate it.  One thing I’m considering myself on I’m expert in though is Kiwi colloquialisms.

Chelsea Aitken: Had a feeling this was coming, yeah.

Jared Correia: I’m wondering if you might be able to walk me through some of these.

Chelsea Aitken: Sure.

Jared Correia: So, I talked to my brother-in-law who is American and he’s probably not listening to the show, but that’s all right, I’ll send him a link.  And he uses all these New Zealand slang terms now and he’s got a little bit of that New Zealand accent, so I would like to lay out some terms here and I’m wondering if you could elucidate and tell me what they mean to my American audience, mostly American audience.

Chelsea Aitken: Okay.

Jared Correia: Well, I think we’re like — I think we’ve got the number two political podcast in like Ghana, so I’m very proud of that even though they never talked about politics.  Yeah, podcast stats are weird, speaking of data.  So, can you tell me what a dairy is?

Chelsea Aitken: A dairy?  It’s like a little shop that sells just your necessities, so bread, milk, lollies, ice cream.

Jared Correia: Lollies?  Lollipops?

Chelsea Aitken: Yes.  Yeah.

Jared Correia: Just an extra one, we get a bonus.  It’s great.

Chelsea Aitken: Just a rain of lollies really.  It’s just kind of a mini shop.

Jared Correia: Okay.  And it’s called a dairy because you pick up milk there, right, as well?

Chelsea Aitken: I don’t know, but it makes sense.

Jared Correia: Okay, okay.  And I looked all these stuff up online, so I could be totally wrong here.  All right, I got some more for you.

Chelsea Aitken: Okay.

Jared Correia: I think some people know this one, but what does it mean to be knackered?  Did I have that one right?  Did I say that right?

Chelsea Aitken: Knackered.  Yes, yes.  It means to be exhausted or tired.

Jared Correia: Okay.  So, we’re recording this on Friday afternoon, I’m going to be honest so everybody, I’m a little bit knackered but we’re pushing through.  How was that?

Chelsea Aitken: Nailed it.

Jared Correia: I found this one which I thought was interesting and you can tell me if these are real or fake.  Rattle your dags, did I do that right?

Chelsea Aitken: Yes, you did.  But I feel like —

Jared Correia: Is that something that people in New Zealand actually say?

Chelsea Aitken: I feel like that could be a fake one.  Dags, it sounds more like Australian or I just might not have heard of it.

Jared Correia: Dags are like parts of a sheep’s butt, right?  Am I correct about that?

Chelsea Aitken: I don’t know that.  But it’s to do with sheep, then it probably isn’t an old saying, but it’s not what I’ve heard about.

Jared Correia: All right.  There’s a lot of sheep in New Zealand.

Chelsea Aitken: Yeah.

Jared Correia: So, apparently, like dags are part of a sheep’s butt, so it means like move faster.

Chelsea Aitken: Wow.

Jared Correia: Good.  All right, so now you’re fact checking me which is great.  This is what I was hoping would happen.

(00:25:02)

I was hoping I get some bad ones.  Okay.  What would happen if I got lost in the wop-wops?  Did I do that one right?

Chelsea Aitken: Yeah, yeah.

Jared Correia: All right, all right.  Tell me about this because I thought this was just splendid.

Chelsea Aitken: Wop-woops is like kind of middle of nowhere, so being out in the outskirts.  It could be a rural area, but it’s just like lost in the wop-wops, lost in the middle of nowhere.

Jared Correia: That’s just a better way to say it.  I’m actually going to adopt that in my everyday life.  Now, this is actually when I’ve heard a lot.  I got another one for you.  Yeah, nah, right?

Chelsea Aitken: Yeah.

Jared Correia: This one, I hear a lot and this basically means what?

Chelsea Aitken: Yeah, nah means no.

Jared Correia: Which is weird because it starts off with yes.

Chelsea Aitken: Yeah.

Jared Correia: I’m so confused.

Chelsea Aitken: It’s normally used when you could be kind of weighing it up in your mind, so you’d ask me to film this podcast and I was kind of not sure, but wanted to in the end, I’d go, “Yeah, nah.  Yeah.”  And that would be yes, but I wasn’t sure.

Jared Correia: Wait.

Chelsea Aitken: It’s all what you finish it on.  So, if I was to say, “Yeah, nah,” that would mean no, but you could do the, “Yeah, nah.  Yeah,” and then that would be yes.

Jared Correia: Oh, man, this is great.  I can really mess with my kids with this.  Okay, I guess the memo for the weekend.  All right, I got a few more for you because I find this to be delightful.

Chelsea Aitken: I’m looking forward to it.

Jared Correia: Okay.  Munted.  What does “munted” mean?

Chelsea Aitken: Broken and damaged.  So, if you crashed your car and it’s really badly damaged, you could go, “My car is munted.”  But also even more slang, some people can — when they’ve been drinking quite a lot and they’re quite drunk, they could go, “I’m munted.”

Jared Correia: That one, I might use.  I like that one a lot.  I just like went out on a Friday night and get totally munted.

Chelsea Aitken: Sounds good.

Jared Correia: That sounds good.  All right, I got two more for you.  These two, I’ve never heard of actually even knowing people from New Zealand.

Chelsea Aitken: Okay.

Jared Correia: Jandals.  This is a thing apparently.

Chelsea Aitken: Yeah, a hundred percent.  Yeah.

Jared Correia: Okay.  So, what are jandals?

Chelsea Aitken: I think do you call them flip-flops?

Jared Correia: Yes.

Chelsea Aitken: Yeah.

Jared Correia: Just sandals.

Chelsea Aitken: Yeah, jandals are sandals or flip-flops.

Jared Correia: So, where does that — like why the “J”?  Do you know why?

Chelsea Aitken: I have no idea, but I was shocked the reverse.  I was shocked to hear I think in Australia, they call them thongs and then in the U.S., it’s more flip-flops and I was shocked to hear that.  I’ve just always known them as jandals.

Jared Correia: You feel like what’s a flip-flop?  That’s so weird.

Chelsea Aitken: Yeah.

Jared Correia: Yeah.

Chelsea Aitken: I guess it makes sense because you know the noise, but yeah.

Jared Correia: I guess so.  It’s still kind of an odd word.

Chelsea Aitken: It is.

Jared Correia: That one, I had never heard before.  Never came across that at all.  This one was a new one for me also.  And this is going to be my last one.  Packing a sad.

Chelsea Aitken: My mom loves that slang.

Jared Correia: This is a true thing, okay.

Chelsea Aitken: Yeah.

Jared Correia: Only one of them was made up, so thank you, internet.  But go ahead, Chelsea, packing a sad, what does that mean?

Chelsea Aitken: Would you know what it means to like have a sulk.

Jared Correia: Yeah, having a tantrum.

Chelsea Aitken: Exactly like spitting the dummy, so like serve your —

Jared Correia: Splitting the dummy, what does that mean?

Chelsea Aitken: Spitting the dummy.

Jared Correia: Spitting the dummy?  I don’t know that one either, okay.

Chelsea Aitken: It means like, say, if you’re playing like a board game and someone lost and now being quite a sore loser and went off, you’d say, “They’re packing a sad.”

Jared Correia: Okay, as much — so, like video games playing in the U.S. like that’d be like rage quitting?

Chelsea Aitken: Yeah.  It’s more like —

Jared Correia: A video game.

Chelsea Aitken: Yeah, rage quitting.

Jared Correia: It’s more of like, “I’m depressed because I lost?”

Chelsea Aitken: Yeah.  You’re more — just like having — you’re sulking.

Jared Correia: This is when I want to use on a regular basis as well because I think this is great.

Chelsea Aitken: I was raised on don’t pack a sad as a kid when like you want to use that toy, but my sister got it.  I went and be like, “Don’t pack a sad.”

Jared Correia: This is awesome.  This is everything I hoped it would be, to be perfectly honest.

Chelsea Aitken: Good.

Jared Correia: So, let me just throw this up here too.  Are there any good ones I missed that you think people don’t know in the U.S.?  Or in Ghana where they’re listening for political news?

Chelsea Aitken: There will be a lot.  Can I think of them in this moment?

Jared Correia: So, you know what we’re going to do, I think we’re going to have to do a follow-up episode where we do etymology of New Zealand slang.  So, we’ll get the words out there and then we’ll figure out where did they come from.  Are you game for that?

Chelsea Aitken: I am game.  I can even quiz you to say if you can guess the meaning.

Jared Correia: Now, yes, we’ll have to do that, that would be really fun.  Unfortunately though, we’ve run out of time for today.  Chelsea, thank you.  You’re amazing.

Chelsea Aitken: Thank you so much for having me.

Jared Correia: My pleasure.  This episode has been joyous I think.  If you want to find out more about Chelsea Aitken and Vxt, visit vxt.co.nz.  Now, for those of you listening in Taumatawhakatangihangakoauauotamateaturipukakapikimaungahoronukupokaiwhenuakitanatahu, New Zealand —

(00:30:09)

How did I do?  Did I pronounce that correctly?  Longest place name in the world by the way.  Our Spotify playlist for this week’s show features songs with long titles.  Yeah, it’s on.

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I guess we’ve run out of time to tell you which type of dog makes the best attorney.  But let me say that I was totally shocked when I found out the answer.  Maybe we’ll get to that next time.  That will do it for another episode of Legal Toolkit podcast where I’m going to go hit the long drop.  I’ll be back next time.

[Music]

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