Don’t overexert yourself, but maybe start being just a tiny bit more aggressive with your business plan. Jared Correia talks through the current state of law firm businesses, highlighting the fact that the hiring pool is bigger than ever, the distributed workforce is on the rise, and that even small steps toward rethinking how you run your firm and look for new talent could yield some very positive results. (1:57)
Today’s guest, Ron Godier, continues the hiring conversation with tips and tactics for marketing jobs to the right candidates and appealing to younger generations of lawyers. (7:42)
And, finally, in today’s edition of the Rump Roast, Jared’s brother, Patrick Correia, gives us an inside look at just how much of a nightmare it was to have Jared for an older brother. (23:46)
Check out Ron Godier’s Intalegent community for better insights on your next hire.
Ron Godier is the principal consultant for law and legal services at Hirewerx and founder of Intalegent, an online community for recruitment leaders.
Patrick Correia is, among other things, Jared’s brother.
This week, we talked about the present and future of work. So, we’ve got some songs about work. Work hard, rock hard.
Our theme song is Two Cigarettes by Major Label Interest.
The Legal Trends Report Minute song is I See You by Sounds Like Sander.
Our closing song is Feel It by Dr. Delight.
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Jared Correia: I’d like to take a moment to thank my mom for listening to every episode. Now my mom is the real reason you’re listening to this show right now but the sponsors have a little something to do with it as well. So I’d like to thank our sponsors too. Clio, Scorpion, Time Solve, Alert Communications.
As the largest legal only call center in the U.S., Alert Communications helps law firms and legal marketing agencies with new client intake. Alert captures and responds to all leads 24/7-365 as an extension of your firm in both Spanish and English. Alert uses proven intake methods customizing responses as needed which earns the trust of clients and improves client retention. To find out how Alert can help your law office call 866-827-5568 or visit alertcommunications.com/ltn.
Intro: It’s the Legal Tool Kit with Jared Correia with guest Ron Godier, special guest appearance by Patrick Correia for the return of Correia family stories and we share that one trick to winning your case, opposing council doesn’t want you to know, but first your host Jared Correia.
Jared Correia: The Legal Toolkit Podcast is right now. Yes the rumors are true I’m your host Jared Correia. Steve Allen was unavailable so you’re stuck with me as always I’m the Ceo of Red Cave Law Firm Consulting, a business management consulting service for attorneys. Find us online at redcavelegal.com. I’m the COO of Gideon Software Inc. We build chat bots so law firms can convert more leads. You can find out more about Gideon at www.gideon.legal. Before we get to our interview today with Ron Godier, I have something to discuss.
A lot of folks are continuing to sit idly by while the pandemic happens to them and by folks I mean business owners, but if you’re a law firm business owner which you likely are if you’re listening to this podcast. It should always be time to innovate especially because the bar is so freaking low. My rule of thumb is whenever I think the bar is too low in terms of law firm business management I lowered some more and it’s worked so far but I digress. But let’s not even talk about innovation actually. Let’s set the bar just plain being slightly more aggressive than you’re being right now. Now is actually a great time to take advantage of one market inefficiency and that’s that law firms who have recently been very reluctant to hire, what does that mean? It means that there’s a large talent pool out there. Lots of new lawyers with excellent grades who didn’t get those plum positions that they were hoping for and that they would have gotten in other circumstances, lots of experienced lawyers looking for a change of scenery and man, aren’t we all looking for a change of scenery right now.
With the number of attorneys in the market for jobs and fewer law firms hiring, guess what, it’s a buyer’s market so you should actively be looking to acquire talent but do it quick, summer’s coming and people are going to be sticking around in their jobs once the summer hits, nobody wants to do anything in the summer ever, stone cold lock, but who knows what September is going to bring honestly. With the craziness of the last year plus I’m not feeling so odd about making any predictions so yeah, expect the unexpected but lo what else has the pandemic wrought, the rise and acceptance of the distributed workforce, gasp. So while other law firms reluctantly adopt work from home, you should be leaning into it. Use it as a tactic, as a lure to require talent, as you’ll shortly learn more about from our guest, millennials especially love working from home, because they can control their own schedules in part and let me let you in on a little secret. Everybody likes to control their own schedules all people that’s not a generational thing.
While we’re on the subject of schedules while we’re talking about differences to different employees what people value, how about your location? All of a sudden it’s not super appealing to be in a big city and if you do want somebody to relocate and to work in an office setting perhaps running a law practice in a vacation destination like Jackson Hole isn’t that much more compelling now than it was?
The people are literally fleeing the cities. Let’s also do some simple math. If you’re looking at a talent pool within driving distance or commuting distance of your office versus I don’t know the whole fucking world? I’d say you have a better chance of finding the best talent within that wider talent pool. I’ve just got two more tips for you that’s all. One, hire the lawyers last, they’re restricted by jurisdiction, they are more expensive and they have more baggage, you’re a lawyer you know. Two, when you do hire lawyers and that’s only after you build out a staff and automate your other processes we’ll talk about that one some other time, talk to career development professionals at targeted law schools like maybe the ones with highly ranked programs in your practice area and then get some help, get some hot tips, those folks are really helpful, they’re willing to talk and they may have some perfect fits for your law firm just waiting to be found, all you have to do is ask. And now get out there, be aggressive, it’s a new world, take advantage of it, go higher like a boss, this is your moment.
Now stay tuned because we’re about to bring out our guest Ron Godier from HireWerx and Intalegent. I just talked about the present of work so Ron and I are going to talk about the future of work. That’s next but first let’s take a moment to listen to the Clio legal trends report minute.
Joshua Lenon: In 2020 7% of legal professionals let go of their commercial office space in favor of maintaining a virtual practice and another 12% are unsure if they will keep their commercial office spaces in the future. I’m Joshua Lenon lawyer and residence at Clio. There’s no question that beyond the pandemic clients will still look for the convenience of remote meetings and online communication already 56% of clients prefer video conferencing over a phone call. For lawyers this presents a major opportunity to reduce overhead, saving upwards of 10,000 dollars per lawyer in office expenditures. The cost savings here can both help with firm profits and be passed on to clients. To learn more about these opportunities and much more for free download Clio’s legal trends report at clio.com/trends. That’s Clio spelled C-L-I-O.
Jared Correia: Okay everybody it’s about time to get to the hot cream in the middle of this deep-fried Twinkie, how’s that for analogy. Let’s interview our guest. My guest today is Ron Godier who is the principal consultant of law and legal services at HireWerx and the founder of Intalegent an online magazine and community focused on improving talent acquisition in law and legal technology. Ron, welcome to the show.
Ron Godier: Hey buddy how are you man?
Jared Correia: Pretty good man how are you doing?
Ron Godier: I’m good.
Jared Correia: So you’re about to launch something you’re calling Intalegent and as luck would have it, that went live yesterday.
Ron Godier: Yep.
Jared Correia: So you want to tell folks a little bit about that before we dive into some of the interview topics?
Ron Godier: Sure so Intalegent is an online magazine community that’s dedicated to building a conversation around how to solve the talent equation as I like to call it. Hiring pre-pandemic was challenging and I fully expect that we’re going to return to an environment like that and I think so often there are groups that need to be communicating that don’t do that very well and they typically reside in the c-suite, in a HR leadership, talent leadership and I tend to separate talent out from HR because they’re two really different functions and then last but not least third party vendors on the outside Robert Half Legal or Spencer Stuart or whoever you’re using as your outside vendor and what happens is, those groups tend to talk past each other. So we found it Intalegent with the idea that we would create a space where you could get information, as a practitioner or as a thought leader you could get and share information in the magazine piece of this but you could also be a part of a larger global community. Now it’s going to take some time for us to get to that place where I think the information flow is what it needs to be to you know, to really have a big impact but I’m in this for the long haul because solving talent, solving the conversations that have to happen around talent particularly as Canada preferences change is really, really important to me and I think there are a lot of groups out there who are doing some great work. The Society of Human Resource Management, SHRM does some great stuff. Recruiting Intelligence ERE does some great stuff but there are very few groups out there that are combining information from thought leaders and information from practitioners with a community in forum style that you can get in and talk not only with your peers but with those thought leaders that you see on the site and there’s also a job board in there, a very niche, very specialized job board for people who are looking for impactful careers in HR and in talent.
And so I feel like we’re doing something interesting but you know how this stuff goes man it’s so hard to know if it’s going to catch because there’s so much noise out there, there’s so much noise. Exactly, exactly and so it all comes back to is your content good. If your content is good people will pay attention to you and that really kind of leads into you know, our discussion today that you and I talked about.
Jared Correia: Well before we get there I asked you to do this about a thousand times during the pre-show.
Ron Godier: Sure.
Jared Correia: How do you get to the site? How do you spell it? Because you’ve got a little play on words going on.
Ron Godier: Sure.
Jared Correia: I just want to make sure people can find it.
Ron Godier: Sure, it’s the combination of the words Intalegent and talent, so Intalegent and it’s I don’t know, maybe some people think it’s goofy I just thought it was kind of a neat way to phrase, so it’s at www.intalegent.com and if you have any trouble finding it, you can always reach out to me on LinkedIn, I’m more than willing to have a conversation with anybody about it.
Jared Correia: Well let’s talk about this talent acquisition thing candidate preferences. You’ve found a lot of interesting stuff in terms of like millennials, gen-z, how they want to work, how they do work with law firms and there’s a little bit of reticence to come in and work in a traditional law firm for millennials and gen-z, right, can you talk a little bit about that?
Ron Godier: Sure you know, if you think about millennials and gen-z their formative years were really those times when we were going through some interesting financial times and they’re also much more digital in nature. We refer to gen-z as being digital natives meaning they grew up in a digital world where they had a social footprint from a very, very early age and those are the places where they interact and research companies. When you and I were coming up and I’m significantly older than you but when we were coming up in work we looked at companies and we said hey, you know, I could see myself working there for 10 or 20 years, well nobody thinks that way anymore, right? People look at jobs and they say hey, this is —
Jared Correia: The gold watch program is dead, right?
Ron Godier: It’s gone, it’s gone and nobody’s really interested in that. In fact, you can look at the gig economy and you can see that people are beginning to gravitate to that work style because they want freedom, they want to be able to call the shots on when, where and how they work and what ends up happening in most — I say established larger firms is that they’re very mature, they have a lot of institutional process.
Jared Correia: That’s a very nice way of putting it.
Ron Godier: Well but I think you know I think that they’re —
Jared Correia: Traditional old.
Ron Godier: I think yes well, okay yeah I mean I think you can call it that I’m trying to be polite but it’s —
Jared Correia: I know and I’m not no.
Ron Godier: But when you are politically incorrect. And but I think the challenge is when you when you view a job as something that can only be done on site. You’re going to struggle with moving to new paradigms to new ways of working, and when you communicate in a very traditional way with a group that doesn’t communicate the same way a 57 or 65 year old partner does, you’re going to have problems connecting with them because you’re talking about things that don’t necessarily matter to them.
Let me give you an example. Prior to 2020 the pandemic, there was a kind of a slow continuous movement toward the gig economy, toward work that could be done remotely, toward work that could provide more freedom and more options for candidates right? 2020 flipped out on its head, it forced everybody to think differently, so you know when 2020 happened court, shut down, right? That was exactly what happened then all of a sudden people figured out hey, wait a minute we can do some of these hearings by Zoom.
Jared Correia: Yeah.
Ron Godier: Right.
Jared Correia: You have your filters turned off.
Ron Godier: Exactly yeah hopefully, hopefully right? But at any rate 2020 shifted the paradigm there. It sped up the ideas that remote work was not scary, it made it less concerning for people, it also created new desires for people coming into the workplace, they wanted flexible work schedules, they wanted to be able to work, when they wanted to work, where they wanted to work, how they wanted to work. And so you’re seeing that trickle over into the legal profession in law firms particularly smaller law firms are going you know, much smaller physical footprint.
They are beginning to look at flexible schedules as long as your work gets done, we don’t care, and there’s new models coming out. People are beginning to go well this billable hour’s really the way for us to make this happen, right? Is that really the way we want to go and the reason I bring these things up is you have to figure out how to package that in a way that allows you to talk to that attorney coming out of Michigan State or wherever, right in law school who might be interested in the partner track if they really understood everything that was involved it was properly marketed to them and they understood that they could still make that same impact versus having to go work at a social justice firm or something along that line so that they could have some kind of social impact in terms of what they were trying to do.
Jared Correia: So the way you’ve catch this is kind of interesting. So on one side, the working models have to change to fit gen-z and millennials but on the other side of the coin these generations are more suspicious of the traditional law firm partner than ever before, right? So like not only is it do you have to get people in and enjoy the working model that you have set up but the first step in that equation is actually getting them interested in the job and that seems to be a challenge too right?
Ron Godier: For sure look at your average really senior partner in a law firm, right, or someone who’s very senior in a legal tech company, right? A lot of times these people have been in the industry for an extended period of time and they’ve done business a particular way and that does not necessarily translate in terms of marketing jobs to candidates, right? It doesn’t — they look at a partner and they’re like well he’s cranky, she’s cranky, they’re constantly busy you know, and they don’t look happy at all and they’ve got all this pressure on them why in the hell would I ever want to be a partner, why would I want to do that and you see law firm after law firm after law firm talking about the idea that we can’t get people to stay on the partner track, they come in for two years and they’re gone, right? And and reason is they get in and it’s unfulfilling, you have to be able to market the candidates today, you have to be able to talk to them where they reside which is on social media. You have to have compelling messages and you have to have things that are going to be of interest to them. People say all the time millennials don’t have the same work ethic, gen-z doesn’t have the same work ethic, that is nothing could be farther from the truth.
Jared Correia: I totally agree.
Ron Godier: The difference is they value different things than you do. And you have to figure out what they value because today’s candidate isn’t like it was 25 years ago, you know, when somebody when — and I hate to drop names here but when DLA Piper came calling, you went, right? You went because that was that was your shot right, and DLA Piper I’m looking at their website, great law firm I have a lot of friends over there. They have 468 videos up on their website and the one of the most trafficked videos I saw took six years to get 50,000 views and it was a video about a new associate, a trainee walking in, so who’s looking at it it’s the people that are new. Go and look at a video about a partner or look at a video about diversity it doesn’t necessarily carry the same kinds of things. People want to understand what the experience is going to be like being there and I think law firms and some legal tech companies really struggle again.
Jared Correia: No I think it used to be that like lawyers were comfortable with the work ethic being like roll up your sleeves and work hard until you die but that’s not the case anymore I totally agree. But this is also a good reminder by the way for law firm partners out there, don’t look constipated in your website photos because people are going to see that.
Ron Godier: Yeah.
Jared Correia: I know you do a lot in terms of future of work, you think about that a lot, that’s the topic you’re interested in, what are some predictions you have coming up? Like what’s in the pipeline that people should be aware of? I’m a horrible prognosticator, I’m going to put you on the spot, you’re the of best legal hiring.
Ron Godier: Nostra Aranas(ph) would be what that is, so just so we’re just —
Jared Correia: Oh yes yeah, I love puns thank you.
Ron Godier: I know I’m all about puns, man, dad humor is my thing. So you know it’s really hard because I think 2020 upended the apple cart, right? I think it changed a lot of things. I think that candidates are going to force what happens. I think law firms, legal technology companies, technology companies are going to be forced to re-evaluate a few things. Number one, the type of work environments that you provide, does everybody have to be there, can they work remotely, you’re seeing companies now begin to move toward four-day work weeks, towards work anywhere programs as long as the work gets done, that’s number one.
Number two, I think you’re going to see all the things that people — I think you’re going to see some bigger companies really, really, really struggle to compete with smaller firms and part of that is, I think smaller firms are going to offer maybe a better culture for young attorneys. I think they’re going to have a varied practice where they can do a lot of different things and I think you’re going to see corporations move toward that which is going to in an effort to reduce legal spend they’re going to want to go to smaller firms but that creates another conundrum and that is how do small firms get themselves out there and get recognized and so I think you’re going to see law firms begin to adopt social media hopefully in a much more effective way than they have to this point, I think you’re going to see gig work become a thing in the legal space where you may bring in an attorney for a three-month contract and then they go hike in Peru, right? I think you’re going to see a lot of that.
Jared Correia: I think there’s going to be more of that too.
Ron Godier: and I just you know, whatever’s happening in the rest of the world you can count that legal will be four years behind, you can count on that.
Jared Correia: I was going to say eight.
Jared Correia: But understand I’m thinking 2020 forced people to speed up a little bit but you can look at firms like you remember — you and I were at the legal tech in New York City and we went to a presentation at Davis Wright Tremaine and they had a whole technology a group called the De Nova Group that was out in Seattle and did nothing but look at technology, that’s the other thing that I think you’re going to see law firms have to do. They’re going to have to embrace technology in a way that they never have before and have been leery of and that is going to cause partners and senior level people to have to get around and get all of the staff attorneys marching in the same direction because you’ll never be able to attract people from the younger candidate sets doing all your work in excel.
Jared Correia: Yeah.
Ron Godier: It’s just not going to happen.
Jared Correia: I think you make a lot of good points here and I think —
Ron Godier: I don’t care.
Jared Correia: No, you totally did, totally did, part of the thesis here I think is that law firms are traditionally managed by doing things that are easy or comfortable for the law firms and now I think law firms really need to start looking at like what do our clients actually want, what will our employees actually want, and I think a lot of what you’re talking about relates to that ladder component, so I think I thought this was really helpful.
Ron Godier: I appreciate it.
Jared Correia: No surprise this is always a fun discussion. So that’s Ron Godier from HireWerx and Intalegent. Intalegent is a new magazine and online community that launched yesterday so check it out intalegent.com but hang in there everybody because next we have a very special guest. We’ll take one final sponsor break so you can hear more about what our sponsors can do for your law practice then stay tuned for the Rump Roast it’s even more supple than the roast beast.
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Jared Correia: Welcome to the rear end of the Legal Toolkit, the Rump Roast. It’s a grab bag of short form topics of my choosing. Today we’re going to revisit one of my favorite recent segments of the show that we’ve done and one that I’ve actually heard a lot of positive feedback on. It’s the return of Career Family Stories.
Last time we did this I tried to caption in terms of a game show in which I asked our guest who was at that time Sarah Schaffer, if I’ve had no whether the stories I was telling were real stories about my family or not spoiler alert they were all real and they were all spectacular. So let’s just drop the charade. To that end I wanted to bring on a special guest today as I alluded to my brother Patrick Correia. Patrick how you doing?
Patrick Correia: I’m good, thanks for having me on the nepotism episode of this podcast.
Jared Correia: In some ways every episode is a nepotism episode. So Patrick Correia formally, I call you Pat, he’s going to fact check me on the stories I told previously and then he’s going to tell you a new one and if you like this one as well, we’ll come back with more family stories I got a bunch of them. My family’s kind of crazy.
So just to recap my last set of family stories were the following. Again all true, all real, all spectacular. First, my backwoods hillbilly uncle took a bath for the first time in years and his fingernails fell off, second my grandfather had a backyard zoo which included a lynx we lived in a city of over a hundred thousand people just for context and lastly my elderly aunt had sex in a bar on a pool table that I almost played on. Very traumatic, years of therapy, so Pat can you confirm that I wasn’t making those stories up and that they are in fact true.
Patrick Correia: Truth and to a certain extent yes. Yep the family member out in the woods I just kind of have to go with what we were told as kids so I imagine that that’s as correct as the story that you told was basically the one that I’ve always heard.
Jared Correia: Parents never lie to you, keep that in mind kids, okay next.
Patrick Correia: Then there is our grandfather’s menagerie, that’s very accurate I would just say that like you should have mentioned all of the other just ridiculous animals that he kept back there and just the ridiculous things, they’re like there are photos of us as children playing around what was an old steel like for making shine and we just played hide and seek around it and now going back looking at those photos it’s insane the steel is like two stories tall.
Jared Correia: Yes that’s very true, playing in the steel just like children do these days. And then I mean he probably had a liger, I don’t know, I didn’t do a ton of investigating, I was kind of afraid to do it.
Patrick Correia: I don’t think a liger would have fit in the spot that this all took place in like to give a better context of how this existed, it existed where we had a family farm that extended ostensibly a city block and at the time, the house, the main house for the farm that was on the main road was all that was left of the property and it was all partitioned out to all these other purchasers that kind of set up these sort of ranch houses, 50s style, and the area that Jared is describing is not the farm itself it’s a very small pocket like in between the garage and the main house.
Jared Correia: It is not a farm.
Patrick Correia: Yeah and then a house that now abuts it was Dickensian in how cramped it was.
Jared Correia: Imagine if you were like a neighbor and somebody’s got like a 10 foot by 10 foot box and there’s like peacocks around, which is crazy, lots of pigeons, lots of kittens, yeah.
Patrick Correia: Anything he could get his hands on, he used to catch snapping turtles with a handkerchief.
Jared Correia: I know how to catch snapping turtles now because of that, yes.
Patrick Correia: Yeah my issue though with the third story is —
Jared Correia: So like before you start there like I just want people to know not only did you confirm my first two stories but it actually turns out that it was worse than the way I told it okay, now for number three.
Patrick Correia: So number three is very interesting in the fact that we have a narrator that we can’t really trust in you, as you’re the one that —
Jared Correia: You’re saying I’m an unreliable narrator.
Patrick Correia: Of course I’ve met you.
Jared Correia: Dude.
Patrick Correia: So the way that it happened was or at least the way that I remember it happening was you had gone to the bar to get I guess quarters for the table or something like that.
Jared Correia: Correct.
Patrick Correia: And dad and I had posted up at the pool table to get ready to play a game because when you told this story initially it sounded almost like a bar patron had turned to you and then they’re like hey you know what I fucked someone that you’re related to like where you’re about to play pool which paints a very different picture and from what I remember was the reality is the bartender and a patron were discussing their carnalities and you just happened over here were curious and inquired more and then you came over and informed us of the scenario and yeah, we —
Jared Correia: That’s interesting.
Patrick Correia: We did stop playing after that, not to shame anyone for what two consenting adults do on a pool table.
Jared Correia: Hey, do what you do, right, do your thing.
Patrick Correia: But more like we shouldn’t play here right now. I’m not, it was — it’s a part of the area that they don’t clean pool tables, I don’t know if anybody does that but they definitely weren’t cleaning them overnight.
Jared Correia: No, you don’t see pool tables being cleaned regularly at a dive bar. So that’s interesting. Maybe my memory is hazy but I don’t know if I’m the type of dude if two guys are talking to be like hey, can you tell me more about the sex you’ve had? I don’t know, it’s just not maybe that type of guy but either way like the majority of that story is true.
Patrick Correia: Yes, yeah.
Jared Correia: But the only nugget that we’re not sure of is who actually relayed the information to us.
So thank you I feel good. For an unreliable narrator I don’t think I did a bad job there.
Patrick Correia: Yeah sure if that’s what helps you sleep go for it.
Jared Correia: I’ll sleep well and not on a pool table. Anyway so you’ve got a family story that involves me and kind of makes me look like a dick frankly.
Patrick Correia: Oh sure so and to help people —
Jared Correia: You answer it really quickly.
Patrick Correia: Oh yeah because I mean well you are and I’m like and to help your listeners I will just let my accent come out I think that might help people along, yeah.
Jared Correia: Yes do it, do it.
Patrick Correia: Yeah I have a — just a heads up to anyone listening I apologize in advance if you can’t understand any of this I have a bit of a thick accent so I’m just going to let that go.
Jared Correia: It’s technically a Maine Seacoast accent.
Patrick Correia: Is it I’m like I know that we sound like Herman Munster in Pet Sematary but I feel like it’s an older New England accent because I think it comes from our grandmother.
Jared Correia: Maybe I’ve heard Maine Seacoast but I could be wrong.
Patrick Correia: Yeah I mean it’s close enough where I can tell people like oh no you don’t want to go up there that’s where the Pet Sematary is.
Jared Correia: Alright, I’m keeping you from telling your story though. So this is an opportunity to broadcast to the world of lawyers how much of an asshole I am so.
Patrick Correia: Oh sure.
Jared Correia: I yield the floor to you.
Patrick Correia: All right, so what had happened was we grew up in New Bedford, Massachusetts and the closest kind of big ballpark to us was McCoy Stadium over in Pawtucket and we had —
Jared Correia: Red Sox Farm Team Triple A team played there yes. Now they’re in (00:31:35) I just want to provide context to people.
Patrick Correia: Oh the Blue Sox yeah whatever. So the — so we were going on this pseudo family trip with a family friend who we’re going to call Mr. Leblanc and his family and I try my best so it’s our father and Mr. Leblanc who are driving this old Econoline, right that was the type of van?
Jared Correia: Ford Econoline, windowless, very questionable vehicle.
Patrick Correia: With I believe four children in the back.
Jared Correia: No seats, no seat belts, just the back of the van, yes.
Patrick Correia: The back of the van just candy and I imagine soda like nothing really good for us in the back of that van.
Jared Correia: There were rugs, Mr. Leblanc was a rug salesman so we sat on the rugs remember?
Patrick Correia: I don’t, I don’t because of the trauma that comes in later.
Jared Correia: Okay go ahead.
Patrick Correia: So we’re driving to Pawtucket and that’s easily like a 30 to 40 minute drive depending on the traffic and I really had to go to the bathroom and Jared was I asked him as my older brother so it’s two families with their two sons going and I asked Jared as my older brother to kind of be that, I was like hey, could you please ask Mr. Leblanc to pull over so I can piss on the side of the road and Jared was very adamant about like well you know, if we stop then we’re going to be late and if we’re late they’re going to be pissed and you don’t want them to be pissed at you right for the entire game while sitting there the whole time so they’ll just hate you the whole time while you’re sitting there?
Jared Correia: In my defense this was Roger Clemens, rehab star but go on.
Patrick Correia: Yeah, yeah that’s a good enough reason. So Jared kind of put the fear of God into me and then I shouldn’t have to ask to go after about a 40-minute drive of kind of holding it, once we got out of the van I just unloaded and just like pissed the hell out of these — out of — because it was also like the early 90s, so that whole 80s culture had leaked —
Jared Correia: Anything goes in the early 90s anything.
Patrick Correia: And I had I had bright pink shorts that were then drastically changed to dark red and it was very noticeable and I was —
Jared Correia: It was.
Patrick Correia: I believe if I recall correctly, our father had gone to go and park the car and our friend Mr. Leblanc had stuck around with us so now this guy who is not our father has to deal with this situation, he makes I guess the best choice that he could make I’ve not familiar about that.
Jared Correia: I wouldn’t debate that.
Patrick Correia: Yeah, he decides that the best place to wash me off is in the trough urinals of Pawtucket and we had discussed this a little bit earlier, it wasn’t a trough, it wasn’t a trough urinal but not a trough urinal that goes long-wise it was a circle trough urinal.
Jared Correia: Yes.
Patrick Correia: And he just placed me in the middle of that and turned and just like splashed toilet water on my pants from the urinal to clean me off and at a certain point our father finally catching up had walked into the bathroom to catch him in this position and poor Mr. Leblanc just frantically waving going like I don’t know how to explain what’s happening we can address it later like let’s get this kid sorted before we do anything else.
Jared Correia: And for people who don’t know like I don’t know, who was who’s stupid enough to invent a trough urinal like it’s the craziest thing it’s like Roman bath house time, there’s like a circle everyone just stands around, there’s like no shields or anything, it’s crazy.
Patrick Correia: You are preaching to the choir.
Jared Correia: Trauma.
Patrick Correia: Oh yeah I’m sorry I did that to you.
Jared Correia: Yeah whatever, mostly, mostly, I’m mostly sorry, I just felt like this was an opportunity to say that. So thank you for coming on to share some family stories, I appreciate it.
Patrick Correia: Oh thank you for having me.
Jared Correia: So thanks Pat, thanks everybody. Now for those listening in Oblong, Illinois I know you’re out there. Our Spotify playlist for this week’s show covers some of the best songs about work. So listen up because you’re on the clock now.
Our guests today have been Ron Godier of HireWerx and Intalegent. For more information about HireWerx go to hirewerx.com, that’s Werx spelled W-E-R-X and for more information about Intalegent go to intalegent.com.
My brother Patrick Correia showed up for the Rump Roast and he’s a dude you definitely do not want to look up online. Unfortunately we’ve run out of time and I won’t be able to provide you with that one earth shattering tip for mercilessly shanking your opposing counsel, maybe next time.
Outro: Now that’ll do it for another episode of the Legal Toolkit Podcast where we’ll snap and crackle but we will never pop.