PPP Loans and the CARES Act

Episode Notes

Transcript

Legal Toolkit

PPP Loans and the CARES Act

08/01/2020

[Music]

Intro: Welcome to Legal Toolkit, bringing you the latest legal trends and business initiatives to help you manage your law firm, with your host Jared Correia. You’re listening to Legal Talk Network.

[Music]

Jared Correia: Hey everyone welcome back to yet another episode of the award-winning Legal Toolkit podcast only on the Legal Talk Network. If you’re looking for a rabbit in a hat with a bat and a 6’4” impala, you want Skee-Lo, not me. If you’re a returning listener, welcome back. If you’re a first time listener, welcome home. And if you’re the US Olympic team, you’ve got some more time on your hands this summer than you usually do. As always, I’m your show host, Jared Correia and in addition to casting this pod, I’m the CEO of Red Cave Law Firm Consulting which offers subscription-based law practice management consulting services for law firms, bar associations and legal vendors. Check us out at redcavelegal.com. I’m also the COO of Gideon Software, Inc. which offers chatbot services software built specifically for law firms. Find out more at www.gideon.legal. But here on the Legal Toolkit podcast, we provide you with a new tool each episode to add to your own legal toolkit so your practices will become more and more like best practices.

In this episode, we’re going to talk about a highly relevant subject which I’ve talked to a number of law firms about, that is PPP Loans issuing out of the CARES Act. But before I introduce today’s guest, let’s take a moment to thank our sponsors.

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All right, now that we’ve done the messaging, my guest today is Steve Lando, who is a tax partner at Anchin, and is the tax leader of the firm’s services group including its law firm’s group. That fits in nicely with the subject of this show, right? Steve, thanks for coming on today. Anything you want to add to the brief bio I just provided?

Steve Lando: Yeah, so just number one, because I’m sure a lot of people out there may not be familiar with the firm, notwithstanding we’ve been around since 1923, we’re probably about 400 people, about 95% here in New York City and the other 5% in our satellite office in India, really six core focus areas let’s call it notwithstanding its middle market companies and individuals that we work with, but basically private client, real estate, financial services, consumer products, AEC, architects, engineers and construction, as well as our services group.

Currently I’m the tax chair for the services group which includes our law firm practice, our PR, media and advertising, as well as technology practices. I was actually the founding member or one of the founding members of our law firm group and I’ve co-led the group at least on the tax side with our co-managing partner Rush Shinsky for about the last 15 years. We’ve built out this group pretty well. It’s probably not only dedicated staff, but probably close to two dozen law firms which are local, national as well as international, anywhere from a handful of partners, shareholders, up to perhaps 150. And it’s a little bit different because the group handles probably about 25% of the practice is PCs, not partnerships.

Jared Correia: Yeah.

Steve Lando: So it’s an interesting mix of clientele that we get. And it was funny, when the group was founded and I went to my first meeting and it was three of the firm’s four executive partners, a senior audit partner and myself who was a young manager, and I was kind of like, “What the heck am I doing here?” I said, “Oh, forcing you guys. They need someone to take minutes.”

Jared Correia: But in any event, that’s how it goes. Yeah your duty.

Steve Lando: But I’ve actually now been with the firm over 30 years, which for some people, that may seem large. But considering the fact that I started when I was 10 and they were paying me an allowance, really not as big a deal.

Jared Correia: You get your gold watch yet or is that coming?

Steve Lando: No. We get that after 50 years.

Jared Correia: And 100 years established, that’s pretty impressive. So you’ve gone basically from like one pandemic to the next?

(00:05:05)

Steve Lando: Yeah, really close. I think we actually skipped the 1918 pandemic.

Jared Correia: You just missed it.

Steve Lando: Yeah, exactly.

Jared Correia: Yeah. Let me talk briefly about a subject that I know is near to your heart, right? So you’re not a New Jersey guy, but you’re at least New Jersey adjacent in New York.

Steve Lando: Yes.

Jared Correia: I always like to start with nice breaker questions. So you’ve got some Bruce Springsteen stories you could share with me, right?

Steve Lando: Yeah, you heard that rumor, huh?

Jared Correia: I did, yes.

Steve Lando: For public consumption only. Okay, so just a couple of quick things. First, the first two albums that I have aboard of Bruce, Greetings, as well as The Wild, The Innocent — and I remember listening to Greetings and not liking it, and put it down for years and pulled it out to make a recording for a friend of mine. And today, it’ still my favorite Bruce album containing still my favorite song, okay?

Jared Correia: What’s your favorite song?

Steve Lando: My favorite song is Spirit in the Night.

Jared Correia: Okay, fair choice.

Steve Lando: So I moved into the city very young because notwithstanding too much older sisters, my parents waited for me to graduate college, and the day after I graduated, they were gone, okay? So I moved, retired to Florida. So I moved into the city and actually Bruce’s future wife, Patti, was one of my neighbors.

Jared Correia: Oh, funny.

Steve Lando: Yes, and meanwhile after — you know, I hadn’t ever met the band, though I’ve been close to two dozen concerts, but about three years ago, one of my first cousins once removed married one of the daughters of an E Street Band member. So Bruce and the E Street Band were all at the wedding including Bruce who came in. He wanted not to be an issue. So he came in right before the ceremony started and sat down directly in front of me. So was kind of cool after all these years to actually be in the same, playground, so to speak at a wedding event with him and the E Street Band.

Jared Correia: I got to tell you, I took a total shot in the dark when I formatted this question for us. But I’d like to think it worked out pretty well.

Steve Lando: Hopefully it did.

Jared Correia: I got three stories for the price of one.

Steve Lando: Exactly.

Jared Correia: Are you ready to make the sponsors happy? Let’s talk about law.

Steve Lando: Sure, by all means.

Jared Correia: So I think most folks at this point, especially those who are listening to the show are familiar with the Paycheck Protection Program or the PPP which is offered through this Federal Coronavirus Relief Act which is otherwise known as the CARES Act. Can you kind of set the stage for us a little bit for those who don’t know briefly like what is PPP? How does it relate to the CARES Act? And then we’ll use that as a jumping off point.

Steve Lando: Yeah, sure thing. And first, I want to give a warning to the audience. If you’ve got little children in the household, try to refrain from using the PPP acronym because it just sets off an entire giggle fest if you’re on the phone.

Jared Correia: Okay that’s good to know.

Steve Lando: Yes, exactly.

Jared Correia: That’s good tip. That’s a pro tip right there from a tax advisor.

Steve Lando: Exactly. So if you think about it, let’s sort of historically, the month of March, basically from March 1st until 20th, the stock market dropped about 30%. The pandemic was moving forward at quite a brisk clip in the united states. Everybody was concerned and basically what Congress wanted to do was put together a stimulus package. And the stimulus package ultimately took the form of the CARES Act, approximately 875 pages of legislation containing about 190 sections thereabouts of which the Payroll Protection Program constitutes two, one being — well if you think about it though —

Jared Correia: Hey, easy to read, right?

Steve Lando: Well, when you think about an 875-paged piece of legislation put together in a week, understand what you’re dealing with, okay?

Jared Correia: Right.

Steve Lando: So it could have been like they just split up all the members of Congress and said, “Here’s cocktail napkins a piece, okay? Write something.”

Jared Correia: Right.

Steve Lando: So the two sections, basically the first one dealing with the process of applying for the loan, and then the second one ultimately dealing with the forgiveness.

Jared Correia: Yeah.

Steve Lando: And we basically, we had a legislation drop on March 27th, and over the next three plus months, basically Treasury in the SBA has been putting out guidance to interpret the some 50-60 pages relevant to the PPP Program.

Jared Correia: Right, so let’s talk a little bit about logistics. I want to save the discussion of forgiveness for later in the show.

Steve Lando: Yeah.

Jared Correia: So that’s a tease. Don’t leave the podcast before you hear about that everybody. But in terms of like the logistics of application, like how does that look? Is it easy for businesses to apply? Like what are the basics of that if you can go into that a little bit?

(00:10:10)

Steve Lando: Sure. The applications themselves, I believe one of the major banks was the first one to actually get their act together to have an application online which was April 3rd. So, basically a week following the dropping of the legislation. Now notwithstanding the application came up April 3rd, they actually couldn’t process anything until probably a week later and other banks started to follow suit.

Jared Correia: Right.

Steve Lando: But there were just so many questions because again, you have bare-bones legislation hastily written that just so much guidance was necessary and so many questions needed to be answered. Because let’s face it, people were truly fearful as to where they saw their businesses going and these were what could be — and not just for law firms, but even think restaurants. This could mean the difference between staying in business and going out of business.

Jared Correia: Yeah, I think that was true of some law firms as well.

Steve Lando: Oh yeah, no question about it.

Jared Correia: Especially smaller firms. So given that context, right? That like it was a very touchy time in the history of the country’s economy, are there still legitimate reasons or were there still legitimate reasons for businesses to opt-out of the program and not take a PPP loan?

Steve Lando: Right. Let’s first talk about what really the intent was.

Jared Correia: Yeah.

Steve Lando: And the intent was to be able to take this loan and avoid laying off employees and cutting back salaries drastically, okay? And if you think about Congress putting this through, keep in mind, if you’re able to keep people employed, you’re certainly making the unemployment numbers look much better, okay?

Jared Correia: Right, I see what’s happening here.

Steve Lando: Right. So when this originally got proposed, it was funded with $349 billion, billion and yet there was an unmitigated panic with regard to a rush to the gate to get that money before it expired. And fortunately, they wound up notwithstanding how quickly they burned through the 349 billion, they subsequently added another 310 billion to the program. And as of today, what’s amazing is there is still approximately $130 billion which has not yet been claimed. And keep in mind, there were companies, a lot of them which made the public newspapers saying that, “Here were these major companies, public companies, et cetera, who took these large loans and people were aghast and they ultimately wound up giving back that money.”

So as of today, there’s still 130 billion left. There is still time to even apply for the loan because it will end the beginning of August. I believe that’s August 3rd, but there has been discussion of extending that date and also trying to additionally prop-up businesses that need further propping up and Congress is meeting on that currently right now.

Jared Correia: What a timely show. So that notion about public disclosure, we’re going to talk about that after the break. So let’s take our first break as we’ve reached the end of the first part of our show. Let me draw your attention to some more words from our sponsors and we’ll be right back.

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Jared Correia: All right thanks for coming back everybody. I’ve returned from eating second breakfast because that’s what you do in a quarantine.

(00:15:05)

So let’s get back to our conversation with Steve Lando of Anchin. We’re talking about the PPP loans. All right. So Steve, before we took a break, you were talking a little bit about these public disclosures in terms of the PPP loans?

Steve Lando: Yeah.

Jared Correia: So one reason that was cited for companies that didn’t want to take the loans was this potential for public disclosure of the fact of their taking loans which obviously like can be damaging to a brand especially for a large business, and that’s come to pass recently?

Steve Lando: Yes.

Jared Correia: So can you talk a little bit about how that happened?

Steve Lando: Yeah. Law firms obviously is our focal point here.

Jared Correia: Yeah.

Steve Lando: So notwithstanding, we always knew that this possibility existed, number one. But also, there was a release I believe in the New York Law Journal or MLA, that basically indicated as to firms taking these loans. Now those are trade publications, right? But now from the point of view, I think it was the beginning of July that the SBA announced what information they were actually going to start releasing. And the information that’s now available is basically — you can get the name of the firm, their address, their EIN number, their NIACS code which, not a big deal, certain demographic data which is included in the forgiveness applications, certain non-profit information, who the bank was, what the number of jobs were that were supported, along with certain other details. But as far as the loan amount Jared, interestingly enough, they’re not giving specificity as to the loan, they’re giving ranges.

Jared Correia: Oh interesting.

Steve Lando: Yeah. So for any loan first of all above 150,000 is where that full disclosure starts.

Jared Correia: Okay.

Steve Lando: And those tranches are — you fall into a bucket, the bucket being 150,000 to 350,000, 350,000 up to 1 million, 1 million to 2 million, 2 million to 5 million, 5 million to 10 million. And if it’s below 150,000 which ultimately the average loan size did come out to be, basically what they’re doing is they’re excluding the name and address of the company.

Jared Correia: That makes sense. And I’m guessing that this has had some kind of a deleterious effect on firms or businesses taking more of the loans, right? Do you think that’s why there’s still money available or is it like combination of factor?

Steve Lando: Yeah. I think there’s a number of issues as to the availability. And then the questions that came up with regard to taking the loan in the first place in part because of ultimately what would be the public disclosure — there were some very — let’s call it draconian penalties associated with certifications that had to be included in the initial loan applications. And I will tell you that the penalties and those certifications did get some people nervous because, originally everybody I think said, “Great, free money, okay?” And then, “Yeah, hey it’s free. It’s manna from heaven. Why wouldn’t we stick our hands out and catch it?”

But I think that upon reading the certifications, looking at what the penalties were associated with supplying any false information — and really what you were certifying was that your business needed this loan in order to maintain payrolls and employment, right?

Jared Correia: Yeah.

Steve Lando: So you may have done a projection. Think of a typical law firm. So most law firms operating on a cash basis, well if this is coming through at the beginning of April, over the next few months, you’re really collecting your accounts receivable. But firms expected that businesses would have problems, that cash would slow down and that the biggest expectation and concern was that billable was going to change, right?

So most firms really when doing their projections of what they expected, I think we’re pretty comfortable with signing off on the certifications. Other firms, depending upon where your numbers are — let’s say you had a massive contingency case hit in the first quarter of the year or you knew you were going to get paid on that in the second quarter of the year — and you now know that your numbers are certainly not going to be any worse than 19.

(00:20:09)

That gave firms pause and especially if you’re a firm whose numbers are going to get released because, remember the SBA piece doesn’t necessarily include the income of the firm. But think of what’s printed on the Am Law 200. Remember, being able to tout how much your revenue has increased and how much your per partner profits, also PPP, just earlier version of PPP, your per partner profits have increased, is a massive marketing aspect to a firm in trying to attract top talent. And let’s face it, before the pandemic hit it and even to a certain extent still, everybody was out there pursuing the M&A people, the private equity people, the litigation people, as well as once the pandemic was in view, chasing all the bankruptcy and workout people.

So any firm that’s able to show — when the Am Law 200 -100 reports that their profitability, their revenue, that’s a big marketing piece for them. So you got two things that are really going against each other because at the end of the day, a law firm is still a private firm. You could have a thousand partners, but it’s still a privately held firm. However, there is obviously certain public information that gets disclosed. And if you’re a firm who’s still showing huge numbers in terms of profits per partner, it may not look so good to some of your clients or certain watchdog groups, who’s ever out there that you’re still maintaining large profits and yet you were taking this loan.

Jared Correia: Makes sense, yeah.

Steve Lando: But again, you’re using the loan for the purpose it was intended to for which was to maintain employment.

Jared Correia: Let’s shift gears a little bit and talk about the forgiveness part of this. You talked about free money before, right?

Steve Lando: Yeah.

Jared Correia: Great if you take a PPP loan and is ultimately forgiven, right?

Steve Lando: Yeah.

Jared Correia: How does that all work and what do we know now about what that process is going to look like when it comes to pass?

Steve Lando: So the applications for the forgiveness dropped several weeks ago. And interestingly enough, the first application actually had come out on Friday, May 15th and I remember that distinctly because I was giving a webinar to the New York City ALA on the 18th and had to completely redo the webinar over the weekend.

Jared Correia: Oh that’s the worst.

Steve Lando: Yes, but they now came out with two forms, an easy and a regular and the easy is a really simple form. And yet, the banks are still having major issues with both the applications and the processes themselves including the whole aspect of — the bank has 90 days to review, to submit to the SBA for the SBA to basically reimburse them, which is ultimately what your forgiveness is going to be.

Jared Correia: Got you, okay.

Steve Lando: And right now I know, I think it’s two of the major banks have indicated they’re not happy with the process. They want to change. They’re not expecting to have the online forgiveness applications available until August 15th or the middle of August at least.

Jared Correia: Oh boy, that doesn’t sound great.

Steve Lando: Well it doesn’t, especially when you consider the fact there’s potentially 150-day review period. And many firms want to kind of get this over and done with because they’re also focusing on their financial statements and they’re worried about potentially timing differences although at least we’ve gotten some guidance as of mid-June from the AICPA that provides a little bit of relief for that. They’re anxious to get through this and now we also know that under the Flexibility Act which had come out subsequently, they changed the requirements. So originally, the period was an 8-week period, it’s now as much as 24 weeks which makes it pretty darn easy to get through your loan especially from the point of even — if you’re just using it for payroll cost because your original loan was based on two months or two-and-a-half months or just under 11 weeks of payroll, and now you can have up to 24 weeks. Most of the firms will be able to certainly get through the full amount for purposes of forgiveness providing that they haven’t hit any of the other roadblocks, basically being salary reductions in excess of 25% for those earning at 100,000 or less and also a reduction in full-time equivalent employees which could ultimately reduce the forgiveness, but even there is still questions.

(00:25:30)

Because I may be spending far more in my covered forgiveness period than actually what I borrowed. And we still have a question of how that might interact with the full-time equivalent headcount as an offset.

Jared Correia: Right, and we’ll talk about some of those issues coming up. But right now it sounds like a lot of this is TBD, so watch out for new information.

Steve Lando: A good amount, there are still questions, yes and we would still like example guidance, let’s call it from the SBA and the Treasury.

Jared Correia: That makes sense. All right, we’re going to pause there, take our second break, listen to some more words from our sponsors and come on back for the last segment.

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Jared Correia: All right, thanks for sticking with us, I never left. Now let’s continue with Steve Lando of Anchin who’s been talking with us and walking us through the minefield of PPP loans. Let’s find out more. All right, let’s talk about some of these related trends that you mentioned previously. So firstly, what effect has PPP had on the current understanding of owner-employee compensation?

Steve Lando: Interestingly enough, New York Law Journal has certainly published — let’s call it the review of firms and they show — let’s say the Am Law 100, and basically who has reduced payroll, right? Who has actually laid off attorneys and staff? Who’s furloughed attorneys and staff? Who has cut back their summer associate programs, et cetera? Well, by and large, many of those firms have taken the Payroll Protection Program loans and think of where they would be if they hadn’t received those loans, okay?

Jared Correia: Right.

Steve Lando: So we would be looking at a tremendous difference because let’s face it, the M&A work has slowed. It’s fallen off a cliff.

Jared Correia: Absolutely.

Steve Lando: There’s a tremendous amount of cash sitting out there with private equity firms, but everybody right now, we don’t know where things are going to go, right? We don’t know if October means a resurgence. Will we have the treatment by the time the resurgence starts? We won’t have a vaccine potentially until 2021. What’s that all going to mean especially when you look today at 80% of the states are now spiking in terms of their cases and where is that going to leave businesses down the road? So imagine where we would be without these loans with work having slowed certainly in the second quarter and that’s work not necessarily a cash flow, but work slowing, will turn into reduced cash flow. And most of that reduced cash flow will be happening after the PPP loans run out which is why we’ve got Congress sitting there this week, currently negotiating on the next stimulus package.

Jared Correia: Right. Let’s talk about a kind of a nitty-gritty issue that I think as a tax person, you probably really enjoy, right? How about deductibility of expenses related to loan forgiveness, is that possible?

Steve Lando: So that’s actually a great question. If you think about this, let’s say you got the loan and the loan was taxable, right?

Jared Correia: Yeah.

Steve Lando: And it’s taxable and you therefore have tax deductible expenses. You got the cash, you picked up the income. It’s basically a wash, right? Taxable income, tax deductible expenses, great.

Jared Correia: Yeah.

(00:30:08)

Steve Lando: The possibility after the Act pass which many of us were talking about was basically the IRS coming out and saying, “Listen this is tax-free income. If you have tax-free income, then any expenses related to it — think like expenses for carrying muni bonds generating tax-exempt income, well expenses related to tax-exempt income are just not deductible.” But again if I have tax-exempt income and tax non-deductible expenses, I’m back to that zero wash. Well, Treasury ultimately did come out and say, “No, this would be a double dipping if the income is tax-exempt and the expenses were still deductible.” Yet it’s clear in reading the provisions of the CARES Act, Congress put in a specific statement saying, “The intention was for the forgiven loans to be deemed tax-exempt income” and if they didn’t mean for a double dipping, why would they have had to have said that? Because obviously in the two cases, two examples I gave, you’re at a net zero, right?

So Treasury comes out with this and within 18 hours, the chairs of both the House and Senate Ways and Means Committees along with several members of the tax writing sections immediately came out and saying, “No, tax authorities, you have overstepped your authority. We meant this to be a double dip. We meant this to be tax-exempt income and we meant it to be deductible expenses, okay?” Mnuchin comes out like that night saying, “Sorry, this is how the law works. So if this is your intent, you need to change the law.” Now, we’re months out already.

Jared Correia: Right.

Steve Lando: And this has gone through several proposals at this point and yet nothing has been signed off on and amongst the accounting profession. The real concern here is, is that when you look at some of these business which were seen in the public huge companies as getting these loans, Jared, I mean now the aspect of double dipping, right?

Jared Correia: Right and the popular sentiment, I’m sure.

Steve Lando: Exactly. So you’re starting to see some pushback to this in the Senate which we already were. So we’re hoping that potentially in this next round of legislation, that this will be addressed for that correction to be made as an exclusion for these purposes to continue to have the expenses as tax deductible notwithstanding the forgiveness will be tax-exempt.

Jared Correia: I can Steve, we’re in a dangerous territory. You’re making tax sound exciting. I’m a little scared.

Steve Lando: As well, you should be my friend.

Jared Correia: I have one more question for you.

Steve Lando: Yeah sure.

Jared Correia: Which you kind of just alluded to. So do you think the PPP loan program is going to continue to be available moving forward post the current deadline? And if not, do you see like other business rescue measures that the federal government might apply?

Steve Lando: Here’s the thing and obviously I’m in New York City, New York State and here, we were originally the epicenter of the United States, right? Let’s go back to March. Let’s go back to April. So we were the epicenter. My girlfriend who was supposed to come back from Switzerland was one, not getting on a plane and two, not coming back to New York looking at what was going on here.

Jared Correia: Right.

Steve Lando: Well, with the measures that in particular, Cuomo took with regard to New York State, we’re now probably in the best situation that we could be. But look at what is transpiring within the rest of the country.

Jared Correia: Yeah.

Steve Lando: And the problem we have now is, if you speak to the major healthcare providers, I believe you will find they are expecting a resurgence come October.

Jared Correia: Right, I think that is.

Steve Lando: That there is going to be almost no way to avoid that especially because of the behavior that’s being exhibited right now with people not wearing masks, okay? Dense gatherings and no masks and we’re seeing what the results of that are throughout the United States. So if you think about it, if that resurgence does fully occur and the treatment is not available until somewhere after that resurgence, you’re going to I think see another crippling effect to the economy.

Jared Correia: Right.

(00:35:10)

Steve Lando: And if that’s the case, then how could you not expect Congress to try and do an additional full measure with regard to what we already had through the CARES Act, and again, funding becomes a question. At least right now, there’s still approximately 130 billion left in the PPP Program. So that money is available. Will it get somewhat redeployed? The answer is they may change some of the criteria, but I wouldn’t be shocked if we go into a full-on resurgence that you couldn’t see an entire new program under the same parameters. Keep in mind, we haven’t spoken about the Main Street Program which was also funded with I think 650 billion, which was for larger firms, many of which would not have qualified for the PPP due to size. That program has barely been touched because of the fact of how onerous the compliance is with it.

Jared Correia: Yeah.

Steve Lando: So it may be that that gets moved out of that program into funding for a similar PPP type of situation, but I would almost have to expect that they would really — and again, let’s see what comes out shortly from Congress with what they’re looking to legislate. I expect they’re going to extend the application deadline for one thing, especially with 130 billion still sitting there and they may change the criteria. They may focus on much smaller businesses to prop them up. They may focus on minority situations. Could they focus particularly on the hospitality industry, hotels, as well as restaurants which have just gotten clobbered due to this?

Jared Correia: Right. This was a lot. I’m starting to sweat. So I think we should end the show here. So we’ve reached the end of another episode of the Legal Toolkit podcast. This is the one where he talked about the CARES Act and PPP loans and we’ve been chatting with Steve Lando of Anchin. Now I’ll be back on future shows with further Insights into My Soul, the Soul of America or what’s left of it and the legal market. If you’re feeling nostalgic for my dulcet tones however, you can check out our entire show archive anytime you want at legaltalknetwork.com.

So thanks again to Steve Lando of Anchin for making an appearance as my guest today. Steve, can you tell folks how they can find out more about you and about Anchin if they go online?

Steve Lando: We  actually, on our website which is the www.anchin website, you will actually see that we have a section which is really dedicated to COVID-19, okay? And it’s really right at the forefront when you bring up the website. But anything else that you want to learn about the firm or myself, you’ll find it all there.

Jared Correia: And that’s anchin.com. Right.

Steve Lando: Correct.

Jared Correia: Right. So thanks again. Our guest today is Steve Lando of Anchin. I appreciate him coming on the show today. Finally, thanks to all of you out there for listening. This has been the Legal Toolkit podcast where an Anchorman sequel never happened. It never happened.

Outro: Thanks for listening to Legal Toolkit, produced by the broadcast professionals at Legal Talk Network. Join host, Jared Correia for his next podcast covering the current business trends for law firms. If you’d like more information about today’s show, please visit

legaltalknetwork.com. Subscribe via iTunes and RSS. Find Legal Talk Network on Twitter, Facebook and LinkedIn or download the free app from Legal Talk Network in Google Play and iTunes.

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The views expressed by the participants of this program are their own and do not represent the views of nor are they endorsed by Legal Talk Network, its officers, directors, employees, agents, representatives, shareholders and subsidiaries. None of the content should be considered legal advice. As always, consult a lawyer.

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