Featured Guest
Stuart Wilhoite

Stuart Wilhoite is the founder and chief executive officer of OnMark Advisors. Beginning his career in the online world...

Your Host
Jared Correia

Jared D. Correia, Esq. is the CEO of Red Cave Law Firm Consulting, which offers subscription-based law firm business...

Episode Notes

Every online marketer out there presents themself as an expert, but not all truly give their clients the ROI they should. What should your law firm be looking for in a marketing agency? How can you make sure you’re not going to get stuck in a bad relationship? Jared Correia talks with Stuart Wilhoite about the key indicators of both good and bad marketing agencies, and Stuart gives practical advice for judging the effectiveness of your current vendor.

Stuart also offers a free link to an agenda developed by OnMark Advisors that your law firm can use to run monthly reporting meetings that will hold your marketers accountable.

Stuart Wilhoite is the founder and chief executive officer of OnMark Advisors.

Special thanks to our sponsors ScorpionNexaTimeSolv, and Abby Connect.

Transcript

The Legal Toolkit

How to Vet Your Marketing Vendors

01/21/2020

 

[Music]

 

Intro: Welcome to Legal Toolkit bringing you the latest legal trends and business initiatives to help you manage your law firm with your host Jared Correia. You are listening to Legal Talk Network.

 

[Music]

 

Jared Correia: Hey everybody. Welcome to yet another episode of the award-winning Legal Toolkit podcast, here on the Legal Talk Network.

 

We are cranking these out at a record rate lately. If you were looking for the cult classic idiocracy, I’m sorry that’s on Hulu, if you haven’t seen it yet enjoy the mic judge experience everybody.

 

Now if you’re a returning listener, welcome back. If you’re a first-time listener hopefully you’ll become a longtime listener and if you ain’t first, you’re last.

 

As always, I am your show host, Jared Correia, and in addition to casting this pod, I am the CEO of Red Cave Law Firm Consulting, which offers subscription-based law practice management consulting services for law firms, bar associations and legal vendors. Check us out at redcavelegal.com.

 

I am also the COO of Gideon Software, Inc., which offers chatbots, a first-to-market chatbot builder and predictive analytics created specifically for law firms. Find out more at www.gideon.legal.

 

Lastly, you can listen to my other, other podcast; yes I have two, The Lobby List, a family travel show I host with my dear wife, Jessica. That’s available on iTunes to subscribe, rate and comment.

 

But back to The Legal Toolkit, which is what we are on right now, we provide you twice each month with a new tool to add to your own legal toolkit. So your practices will become more-and-more like best practices.

 

In this episode, we’re going to talk about How to Vet your Marketing Vendors, something which you may have never thought about until today. But before I introduce today’s guest, let’s take a moment to thank our sponsors.

 

Abby Connect has delivered premium live receptionists and answering services to lawyers since 2006. You can try them out for free at abbyconnect.com.

 

Scorpion crushes the standard for law firm online marketing with proven campaign strategies to get attorneys better cases from the Internet. Partner with Scorpion to get an award-winning website and ROI positive marketing programs today. Visit scorpionlegal.com/podcast.

 

Nexa, formerly known as Answer 1, is a leading virtual receptionist and answering service provider for law firms. Learn more by giving them a call at 800-267-9371 or online at www.nexa.com.

 

TimeSolv is the number one web-based time and billing software for lawyers, providing solutions since 1999. TimeSolv provides the most comprehensive billing features for law firms big and small, www.timesolv.com.

 

All right my guest today is Stuart Wilhoite. Stuart is the Founder and CEO of OnMark Advisors. As founder and managing partner of an award winning Google Premier Partner marketing agency for a decade, Stuart worked with business owners of all sizes from SMB to enterprise in a wide variety of verticals; including manufacturing, hospitality, tourism, gaming, healthcare, legal and e-commerce.

 

In his position as managing partner, he recruited and managed an elite team of online marketers across all disciplines from around the globe.

 

At OnMark, he helps business owners including lawyers to vet their marketing agencies and that’s what we’re here to talk about today. Stuart, welcome to the big show, my friend.

 

Stuart Wilhoite: Thanks Jared. How are you doing?

 

Jared Correia: Great, great, this is going to be fun. So to start with like I read somewhere that you’re an ice hockey player and you still play.

 

Stuart Wilhoite: I am yeah. I’m 60 years old and actually I’m playing in a tournament this weekend and for a team from Dallas coming here to Vegas and it’s been a passion of mine since I was a little kid, I love it.

 

Jared Correia: See that’s wild. I feel like if I tried to skate, at my advanced age of 41 I would like break my hip immediately. But you’re still playing in competitive games.

 

Stuart Wilhoite: I broke my both of the bones in my leg when I was 50 — 58 and I’m back playing at tournament levels.

 

Jared Correia: That’s amazing good for you. So like if I read correctly, you’re out in Vegas now but you’re from New England right?

 

Stuart Wilhoite: I am, grew up in Hanover, New Hampshire where Dartmouth College is at and ended up moving down towards the Boston area for ten years and then moved out here.

 

Jared Correia: All right so can I test your New England knowledge. Would you be able to hum like a few bars of Brass Bonanza for me? I will make you do that but for those who don’t know, Hartford Whalers theme song everybody, Brass Bonanza look it up on YouTube.

 

Stuart Wilhoite: That’s great.

 

Jared Correia: All right, so let’s jump into stuff that people want us to talk about especially our sponsors. So let’s make everybody happy. We’re going to talk about how to vet potentially bad marketing agencies right but let’s talk about the good ones to start with. So law firms particularly, like what should they be looking for in a marketing agency?

 

(00:05:01)

 

Stuart Wilhoite: Well, I want to start this conversation by setting a really important premise. It would be almost impossible really for me to give you guys a full brain dump of what I know about this subject. But what I’d like to share is the single most important thing that I’ve learned over the last 23 years in the industry and if you get nothing else out of this discussion today, this should be your takeaway.

 

As you mentioned in my bio, the most important function that I had as an agency owner was building an exceptional team. I got really lucky in the beginning in my business. We had several Google employees who took notice of what we were up to and they actually left their jobs at Google and came to work for us. That really set the stage for me for the level of talent on our team.

 

And now as our company grew, we started to get hundreds of resumes for almost every position that we put out there. Every one of those resumes looked great. I mean awesome. The average business owner if they were looking at these resumes would think that these guys were really highly skilled people, right.

 

Now, my team had a big part in vetting these employees and we have very stringent vetting criteria, a couple of lawyers had interviews with the team, skills testing and so on and what we found was that maybe one in 40 of these incredible looking resumes really belong to someone who had any real skills, the type of people that you would want to trust such an important part of your business with.

 

Now to put that into perspective, I’m sure most of your listeners at some point learn the rules of the game of chess, right. They can play the game but there’s a huge difference between the success ratio of the average recreational chess player and the passionate dedicated masters like Kasparov or Fischer, and like chess, anyone can learn to push and pull the levers in the Google Ads platform but in the hands of a brilliant passionate online marketer, a true data scientist that lives and breathes their craft the return on investment can be two to six times that of the general practitioner.

 

Imagine getting two to three times the number of quality cases that are coming into your firm for the same budget that you’re spending now.

 

The secret to exceptional online marketing is simple. You want the finest online marketers in the world doing your digital. They’re always the most successful and the least expensive. The real challenge here is knowing the difference between the exceptional and everyone else because every online marketer out there thinks they’re an expert.

 

Jared Correia: Yeah so this is a great approach I think so let’s go searching for Gary Fisher right. So when you’re vetting an online marketing agency is a law firm like, are there specific questions you should be asking and could you maybe give some examples of those.

 

Stuart Wilhoite: Well that’s a tough one. What I can do is sort of share with you the profile of an exceptional agency.

 

Jared Correia: Oh that’s fair.

 

Stuart Wilhoite: What I would be looking for in an agency for a law firm would be a boutique agency, would be between maybe 25 and 100 employees, below 25, their agency is not fully matured and their internal processes at this point can become really challenging, many agencies at this level implode and they can’t service their clients effectively because they’re too focused on internal issues. And above a 100 to maybe 150 people they’re starting to get too big. They tend to look at you as a number rather than as a real partner.

 

You want an agency that really values your business. The agencies that I like to place my clients with are owned by thought leaders and speakers in the online marketing industry. People who inspire the brilliant young marketers to join their teams and it’s very important that these agencies service multiple industries not just legal.

 

The new skills and tactics learned by servicing a variety of different kinds of businesses is really invaluable and helps an agency get and keep their edge. I would avoid agencies who would focus on a particular industry. They tend to rest on their laurels and typically provide sort of cookie cutter marketing.

 

Jared Correia: All right I think a thoroughgoing attorney could probably turn that into vetting questions. So fair enough.

 

Stuart Wilhoite: Sure.

 

Jared Correia: So let’s turn it into a situation now where like a law firm is already in a bad relationship with a marketing agency and I think this is more of what you do in your present capacity. So what are some of the warning signs for a law firm that they’re in a bad relationship with their marketers.

 

(00:10:02)

 

Stuart Wilhoite: That’s a great question. So, first let me say that if you believe what I said might be true that one in 40 online marketers really has the skill, one in 40 agencies and in my experience has the skills you want. So the chances are if you feel like there’s a problem, you should probably trust your gut.

 

The odds suggest that there probably is. But let me share three of the top tales. First, if your agency is not having at least a monthly meeting with you and they’re providing you good reporting and talking to you about strategy, there’s a problem. You should be having a regular monthly meeting where the agency is giving you meaningful reporting that you can understand and that makes sense for your business.

 

As an agency owner, I learned that transparency and good communication is really the key to client retention. An exceptional agency or an exception online marketer is excited to show you their success every month, and those reports are how they communicate those metrics to you.

 

Secondly, and this is a big one for attorneys. You don’t know how many leads or clients your agency is bringing in each month but more importantly, you don’t even know what the cost of a lead is. So, so many of these agencies give you a pretty dashboard to look at and they claim that they’re bringing you opportunities, but they really failed to prove it empirically.

 

We’ve audited many of these dashboards and the data is often manipulated in the agency’s favor. We have the technology nowadays. Lots of attorneys will ask me well how do you know that these leads came from the ads that these guys are putting up. Well, a good agency is going to utilize highly advanced and sophisticated telephone tracking.

 

Now if it’s a form fill, that’s easy, right, the form fill comes after someone has seen your ad but when it comes to the telephone calls, which is really what happens most of the time, nobody is stopping in at a law firm, they’re calling because they want to ask questions that talk to an attorney.

 

So when somebody sees one of your ads, they’re actually there, they’re going to the website because they’re clicking on the link in the ad and behind them trails all this information like your comment as to how they found you. The keywords that were used which ad they clicked on so on and so forth.

 

And a dynamic telephone number is assigned to that visit. The visitor doesn’t know it but the phone number is changing on the website. So when they get there, they’ve got a phone number that’s assigned specifically to them. We have all the data that’s assigned to that visit and that phone number sits on a shelf for a period of time until the number is used, when the number is used, we know who used it, we know how they found you, all that data is captured and the information shows us the caller ID, it shows us the length of the call.

 

We don’t consider a call on less than one minute a qualified lead, nobody can sell anything in a minute, and also it shows all the data about the keywords that were used. This information allows us now to compare data in your CRM for instance to see what clients actually converted, there’s also call recording, so that the attorneys can make sure that the front desk staff are handling these calls correctly, right.

 

So absolutely there is very good tools out there for us to make sure that the money that you’re spending is coming through and turning into sales.

 

And finally, you want to know how much effort and hours your agency is putting into what it is that they are doing. In many cases an agency is going to tell you okay, we’re going to charge you X amount of dollars this month, might be 5K for your SEO, and a lot of attorneys being busy guys are just going to say okay, well, I guess that’s what it takes, right, and they never ask the agency, well, what are you doing for me every month for this money.

 

So we want to know how much work the agency is putting into it. They may charge you a flat fee, but there’s no transparency. They don’t account for how many hours they’re working on your behalf, what they’re doing is nebulous. If you’re paying 5K a month, but your website is not changing and you have no idea what that 5K is getting you, there’s your sign, right.

 

Jared Correia: That’s pretty good. That was like so many hot takes, like I can’t even leave through them yet, that was impressive. So one in 40, that’s crazy. So —

 

Stuart Wilhoite: That’s what I believe in and I talked to a lot of agencies.

 

Jared Correia: Yeah.

 

Stuart Wilhoite: I’ve got great relationships with some of the finest agencies in the world and they, as they’re building their teams, as an X agency owner I have these conversations with them, right, and they all pair the same kind of data that — there’s just so many people out there that don’t know what they’re doing.

 

(00:15:08)

 

Jared Correia: Yeah, no, this is great and so obviously it underscores the need to vet because you’re looking for that 1 in 40 agency, that’s good.

 

Stuart Wilhoite: That’s a great statement.

 

Jared Correia: And I think this is a good point to pause. So let’s come back in a second after the break. In the meantime, here are some of the things that a reasonable lawyer might consider purchasing along with maybe a signed and framed promotional photo of television’s Michael Gray.

 

[Music]

 

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[Music]

 

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[Music]

 

Jared Correia: All right, thanks for coming back. You’ve returned to us, we’re into our second segment with Stuart Wilhoite of OnMark Advisors and we’re talking about how to judge the effectiveness of your digital marketing agency. So I thought you gave some great tips for vetting a digital marketing agency just prior to the break.

 

So when we left off you were talking about some of those warning signs indicating that law firms are in a bad relationship with the marketing agency, but what’s the next step? So if you’re in a bad relationship you want to get out of it, how do you do that?

 

Stuart Wilhoite: Well, I think there is some things you have to take into consideration first. Communication is key here. If you feel like you’re being left in the dark and not seeing the signs of success that you were hoping for, well, the question is why not, is it the agency or is it possible you.

 

I’ve worked with many attorneys and you guys are really busy people, right. Sometimes it can be that the agency wants to communicate their value to you and their tactics, but the attorneys themselves are not — don’t make themselves available to the meetings to stay informed.

 

So they get a sense that they’re being left in the dark, because they’re not communicating with the agency and allowing the agency to prove value every month, right.

 

So to start out, I’d have an open and honest discussion with your agency. Let them give you their perspective, ask them to prove their value. If their answers makes sense and they present a clear path to making things better, great. You can give them the benefit of the doubt based upon whether you really like them and they’ve been congenial and whatnot, but stay engaged and put them on notice that you want to see clear results or they’re fired.

 

The second thing you can do and it’s becoming more prevalent nowadays is have a professional assessment done or what we call an audit. It’s really important though that that audit be unbiased. Every agency in the world will do a free audit for you right but all they want to do is trash your agency so they can steal the business.

 

It’s kind of like asking Ford if you should keep your Chevy. Every bit of data about your campaigns is out there, it’s available. An expert auditor can tell you empirically whether or not your agency is performing well or not and if they are unbiased, you’re going to learn where your agency is performing competently as well as where they’re lacking and utilizing this information, you can now have that conversation with your agency and maybe they’re going to learn something and maybe they’ll change their tactics.

 

So you really want experts in the field doing these audits not necessarily agencies, because again, they’re going to have conflict of interest.

 

Jared Correia: Yeah, I love this notion of an independent audit, which I think the first time I heard of this process being in place was from you, I think it’s a really cool niche to be in.

 

Stuart Wilhoite: Yeah thanks.

 

Jared Correia: Because business owners have such a hard time having like really effective conversations with their marketing agencies. So let’s say you get an independent audit done, you get the results of that. How do you make the decision to stay in or get out, like is there a point at which it’s worth it to continue the relationship with a vendor or to just move on? Like how do you make that call, because I think that’s probably a hard call to make for the average law firm?

 

(00:20:07)

 

Stuart Wilhoite: Well, it is. A lot of them, you know look, in your industry, a lot of attorneys have healthy egos, right, and none of you guys ever want to admit that you made a mistake, and obviously, a common business mistakes can be choosing a marketing agency and no one wants to confront the fact that they made that bad mistake. But it’s really subjective and based upon the severity of the issues really is what it comes down to.

 

For instance, when we are doing audit we use a three grade system. On audit like this, we look at dozens and dozens of elements and for each item the auditor whose specific to that discipline. In other words, we’re using some of the best people in the world who we’ve made relationships within those particular disciplines, they will grade each item in one of three ways, either par, which would suggest that the agency is doing an acceptable job. They’re doing what they should be doing. They are following best practices, right, or subpar which sort of speaks for itself, right, the agency is not doing what is expected of them. They might be missing things, not paying attention, using old out-of-date tactics, etc.

 

And finally, we give a grade of exceptional, meaning that your agency is killing it. They’re doing a great job. They’re utilizing experimental tactics, they’re just — they’re really doing an awesome job.

 

Now I’ve had attorneys and other types of businesses who’ve gotten terrible reports on their agencies, and chosen to not change, because they feel that the people they don’t know are just as potentially bad as the ones they do.

 

But again, the idea here is to find the exceptional not that run of the mill agency that could cause these same kind of problems. So it becomes pretty self-evident. If your agency is just missing on a few points and they’re open to the learning experience and you like working with them, you give them a chance. But if they don’t follow through, hey life is too short. Hire the exceptional and start making some room.

 

Jared Correia: I like that, and I like how you break it down into three buckets. So that that makes sense. So, let’s say the relationship is salvageable, right. So that relationship has got to be revised in some way. So what should be the touchstones of that revised relationship?

 

Stuart Wilhoite: Well I think it all depends on the character of the agency. I think you should set some solid expectations and hold them to their renewed promises. If they continue to miss the mark, it’s time to move on, but really that’s going to be unique to each relationship how close you are with the people, how much you believe in them and but most importantly, it’s about setting expectations.

 

If you’re an attorney, you have employees and we all know that having employees one of the best ways to get what you want for your employees is to set their expectations. So that’s my advice in this position.

 

Jared Correia: That makes a lot of sense. All right, we’re going to stop there. We’ve come to our second and last break before we return with Stuart. While I try to figure out finally how to play Othello listen to these words from our sponsors.

 

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[Music]

 

Jared Correia: Hey, thanks for coming back everybody. We’re still here and we’re still talking with Stuart Wilhoite of OnMark Advisors. He is telling us all about how law firms can make better choices with respect to the marketing vendors they’re working with. So let’s find out more.

 

So as we talked about like part of this is like law firm marketing agencies or marketing agencies generally who happen to work with law firms and maybe with other industries like holding up their end of the bargain.

 

(00:25:01)

 

They have to provide exceptional service, right, but as you have addressed or alluded to before law firms also have to do a better job of engaging vendors and holding them accountable, right. Do you want to speak to that a little bit further here?

 

Stuart Wilhoite: Absolutely, and it’s huge. Again, if you’re not on those calls every month with your agency and you don’t know what they’re up to, then again, you are relegating yourself to being in the dark.

 

I teach my clients to be fully engaged and this set expectations for the agency like we just set for them to live up to. The best thing you can do is stop being the low touch client.

 

Again, agencies pay the most attention to accounts of two different kinds. Number one, the clients who spend the most money and some of your PI attorneys might be some of your agency’s biggest clients, right. They always get the attention. But the other type of client is the squeaky wheel, right.

 

Now we don’t want to be jerks about it, but the one way that we can get the agency to pay attention to us is to stay top of mind and demand excellence. Again, you don’t want to be a jerk, but if you don’t engage and show up for the meetings and whatnot and all you’re doing and a lot of attorneys do this is just write the check every month and don’t ask questions, you’re not going to get their best effort.

 

Set real, achievable goals and make them prove their value every single month. That’s what they should want to do.

 

The ones that don’t, the ones who aren’t forthcoming and constantly trying to tell you how good they’re doing or showing you the data, those are the ones you want to worry about. I’ve seen law firms so badly taking advantage of by their agencies.

 

We audited one firm that works with law firms that that didn’t do — they were charging thousands of dollars for SEO. They weren’t doing any SEO, no activities at all. They were — they didn’t change their creative for their paid advertising in over a year and didn’t do any bidding reviews for over six months. They just set it and forget it because they think that the lawyers rather just busy guys, they’re never going to ask and hold us accountable.

 

So it’s really important that you guys stay engaged. It may only be once a month for an hour, but at least give them that hour to show you what they’re doing and for you to put them to hold their feet to the fire.

 

Jared Correia: Yeah. No, I think that’s all good and I think it’s true that lawyers get to take advantage of on this stuff all the time and part of it is their unwillingness to like spend time on business management, which is a long-standing problem for attorneys.

 

So, I think this is all great like how do you hold the digital marketing agency accountable but are there also some things that law firms should be doing outside of those regular meetings with their marketing agencies, like should they be reviewing analytics on their own, should they be trying to flesh out like the marketing programs themselves, like what role does an attorney have to play on their own outside of what they’re doing with the marketing agency to try and help move the marketing forward for their firm?

 

Stuart Wilhoite: The first thing is that monthly meeting, it’s really the most important thing that you as an attorney need to be doing. And I’m going to share it with your listeners today an agenda that we’ve developed so that when you do have those meetings each month, you can use this agenda and follow it along, just step one, step two, step three and the meeting will take a real efficient structure.

 

We’re going to go through every month. First you want to know what did you do for me last month. What have you done for me in the last 30 days and make the agency tell you right. Then you’re going to ask them to give you a supporting documentation of the data to prove that they’ve done what they say they’re going to do on this, it’s having a positive effect.

 

The third item is going to be that what are you going to do for me over the next coming month? What are the tactics and the activities that you are going to be putting in to my account next month that are going to bring me value, and then you want to discuss your successes, your challenges, your changes. They need to hear from you what you’re seeing on your side and discuss wins and whatnot.

 

And finally, there should be a list of deliverables. Do they owe you some information you’ve wanted elaboration on for instance or do you owe them some feedback or some imagery or something like that. That way everybody is on the same page.

 

The key here really is communicating and holding them accountable. The meeting should be somewhere between like I said an hour to — half hour to an hour.

 

Jared Correia: Oh that’s cool, yeah. I like that a lot and thank you for providing that document to everybody.

 

Stuart Wilhoite: I think we will put a link up possibly.

 

(00:29:58)

 

Jared Correia: Absolutely. There would be a link on the page when the podcast released. So if you’re listening to this show on the Legal Talk Network page for the podcast, you’ll be able to download the agenda there. And Stuart, I would imagine if people want to contact you to get that directly you’d be okay with that.

 

Stuart Wilhoite: Absolutely.

 

Jared Correia: Yeah and we’re going to allow you to — so we’re in a little bit, stay tuned, we’re going to have Stuart give you some contact information for him. So the last like specific question I have about this is in terms of like lawyers’ efforts versus digital marketing agencies efforts, like what should lawyers do to market their own practices, what should they leave to agencies, right?

 

So should a lawyer be writing their own content and having an agency promote that, should a lawyer be managing their own social media, like what should and can lawyers do? Like is there a good balance for that, like what you leave up to the marketing agency versus what you do yourself so that your content at least is in your own voice?

 

Stuart Wilhoite: That’s the best way to do it actually, but it’s still really subjective. It really depends on the area of practice. There’s a huge difference between the tactics of a probate and estate firm compared to a PI firm, right. The one commonality would be number one, make sure you got a good website that quickly and succinctly explains what you do and the value that you bring.

 

Everybody is researching attorneys online now and people are doing it on their, on their lunch breaks, at work, they’re doing it on the subway going home. So a website that’s easy to navigate and communicates well on their phone is also really important.

 

Now SEO, PPC and social media may not be right for every law firm, really, it depends on are you a single attorney who is doing a family, do you get a lot of referral business or you’re already pretty busy compared to someone who’s trying to generate more business and they’ve got multiple attorneys so they can really offset the cost of a bigger budget.

 

But the one thing that any firm can do like you said, so well as writing content, right. You need to write articles and blogs and do posts on your social media. These are all things that you can do that you don’t have to pay people to do. If you’ve got a bigger budget, you might want to dovetail with your agency where the agency might set some expectations for how many articles and where to place those articles.

 

And then you guys do the writing because you know the content and then they place those things. But mostly, it’s how a website works, that’s easy to navigate, that represents your brand well, and then make sure that it’s full of good content for people to find it.

 

Jared Correia: Awesome. That’s really good info, and I think that’s the best play because I think it’s important as an attorney especially to keep your own voice then if you supplement that with a marketing agency, it’s a great strategy.

 

Stuart Wilhoite: Absolutely.

 

Jared Correia: I’ve seen it work time and again, it’s just a matter of putting in the effort. All right, so one more fun question before we end. So I do a little segment on this show that I call that social media post that you forgot about. So I read you back an old social media post of yours and you comment on it.

 

Now just full disclosure, unfortunately I wasn’t able to find anything super embarrassing on you sadly, so you’re doing a good job with your web presence. So are you ready for your question?

 

Stuart Wilhoite: Yes sir.

 

Jared Correia: Yes, good, that was rhetorical. I was going to ask you in anyway. From your Facebook account, November 12, 2017, you sir posted the following. My 2005 4Runner is for sale, this is a really fun truck. So now I’m going to give you the opportunity to tell me just how badass your 4Runner was and then I’m also interested to know what did you buy to replace it?

 

Stuart Wilhoite: Well, it was great. I was that 4Runner, it was in 2005. I ended up, I sold it I think it was almost 200,000 miles on the thing, and that was great. I had completely redone it. I was going to keep it as my daily driver and I did a lift on it, put new wheels and tires on it, but I just decided, I bought a Dodge Challenger and got used to the creature comforts.

 

And so I bought another 4Runner, 2016 4Runner had the creature comforts but still had the off-road capabilities.

 

Jared Correia: Yeah, I have to say I had at least have a Jeep Commander, which was like really huge SUV, we had it for about 10 years and I ran that sucker into the ground too and then we replaced it with like a 2016 Grand Cherokee. So and it’s hard to give up like Sirius XM and heated seats and all that stuff.

 

Stuart Wilhoite: It is yeah, and with 2005 just didn’t have that good stuff yet.

 

Jared Correia: Right, right. All right, so I think that’s a good place to end on. So sadly, because this was a great conversation with a lot of good information. We’ve reached the end of yet another episode of The Legal Toolkit podcast. This was a podcast about vetting marketing agencies and when we’ve been talking with Stuart Wilhoite of OnMark Advisors, we have a lot of great advice.

 

(00:34:54)

 

Now, I will be back on future shows with further insights into my soul, the Soul of America and the Legal Market. If you are feeling nostalgic for my dulcet tones; however, you can check out our entire show archive any time you want at legaltalknetwork.com.

 

So thanks again to Stuart Wilhoite of OnMark Advisors for making an appearance as my guest today. Stuart, can you tell everyone how they can find out more about you and about OnMark.

 

Stuart Wilhoite: Sure, it’s easy. OnMark as in online marketing, onmarkadvisors.com, our website has a lot of good information, some great articles. There’s also — at the top you’ll see a link to a webinar on the nine ways to tell if you’re getting screwed by your online marketers.

 

There’s also some articles for lawyers on our site about to find a good online marketing as well.

 

Jared Correia: That sounds awesome.

 

Stuart Wilhoite: Jared, thanks so much for this opportunity and I hope it’s been valuable to your listeners.

 

Jared Correia: No, this has been really cool and now the one thing I will also mention is that that agenda Stuart talked about before for managing meetings with your digital marketing company, that will be available on the home page for this episode of The Legal Toolkit.

 

But if you’re listening on another platform, feel free to reach out to Stuart directly and I’m sure he’d be willing to share that document with you.

 

Stuart Wilhoite: Yeah, it’s just at onmarkadvisors.com/agenda, it’s that easy.

 

Jared Correia: Awesome. So thanks again to Stuart Wilhoite of OnMark Advisors and finally thanks to all of you out there for listening.

 

This has been The Legal Toolkit podcast where sorry seems to be the hardest word.

 

[Music]

 

Outro: Thanks for listening to Legal Toolkit, produced by the broadcast professionals at Legal Talk Network. Join host Jared Correia for his next podcast covering the current business trends for law firms.

 

If you would like more information about today’s show, please visit legaltalknetwork.com. Subscribe via iTunes and RSS. Find Legal Talk Network on Twitter, Facebook, and LinkedIn, or download the free app from Legal Talk Network in Google Play and iTunes.

 

[Music]

 

The views expressed by the participants of this program are their own and do not represent the views of, nor are they endorsed by Legal Talk Network, its officers, directors, employees, agents, representatives, shareholders, and subsidiaries. None of the content should be considered legal advice. As always, consult a lawyer.

 

[Music]

 

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Episode Details
Published: January 21, 2020
Podcast: Legal Toolkit
Category: Legal Marketing , Practice Management
Podcast
Legal Toolkit
Legal Toolkit

Legal Toolkit highlights services, ideas, and programs that will improve lawyers' practices and workflow.

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