Sam Mollaei is a business lawyer for entrepreneurs at MollaeiLaw.com, based in Los Angeles, California. He helps entrepreneurs start...
Jared D. Correia, Esq. is the CEO of Red Cave Law Firm Consulting, which offers subscription-based law firm business...
Lawyers aren’t known for their marketing savvy, but Sam Mollaei may be the exception. He set out from law school with the goal of building a virtual law firm that would allow him to work from anywhere he chose, and his marketing strategies have allowed him to do just that. Sam talks with host Jared Correia about the importance of building online traffic for your law firm through the use of marketing funnels. He offers recommendations for specific products and tactics that help increase site traffic, gather new leads, and convert those leads into clients.
Sam Mollaei is a business lawyer for entrepreneurs at MollaeiLaw.com.
As a special treat, this episode is also being offered in video form on YouTube. Check it out here.
The Legal Toolkit
Marketing Funnels: Growing Your Law Firm with Tactical Marketing
Intro: Welcome to Legal Toolkit bringing you the latest legal trends and business initiatives to help you manage your law firm with your host Jared Correia. You are listening to Legal Talk Network.
Jared Correia: Hey everybody. Welcome to another episode of the award-winning Legal Toolkit podcast here on the Legal Talk Network.
We are also coming to you on video. You see my fancy collared shirt. I’m potentially in need of a lint brush but we’re moving forward.
Now, if you are looking for the new season of ‘American Horror Story’ it’s on FX right now, you should check it out. Watch for some crazy X-files Easter Eggs.
Now, if you are a returning listener to this podcast, welcome back. If you are a first-time listener, hopefully you will become a longtime listener, and if you are Rooster Cogburn, your real name is actually Reuben, interesting fact.
As always, I am your show host, Jared Correia, and in addition to casting this pod, I am the CEO of Red Cave Law Firm Consulting, which offers subscription-based law practice management consulting services for law firms, Bar associations and legal vendors. Check us out at redcavelegal.com.
I am also the COO of Gideon Software, Inc., which offers chatbots, a first-to-market chatbot builder and predictive analytics, all created specifically for law firms. Find out more at www.gideon.legal.
You can also listen to my other, other podcast; yes, I do have another podcast, it’s called The Lobby List and it’s a family travel show I host with my dear wife, Jessica. That’s on iTunes where you can subscribe, rate and comment.
But here, back on The Legal Toolkit, we provide you twice each month with a new tool attached to your own legal toolkit so your practices will become more-and-more like best practices.
So in this episode we are going to talk about Advertising Your Law Firm Through Marketing Funnels.
But before I introduce today’s guest, let’s take a moment to thank our sponsors.
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All right. Welcome back everybody. My guest today is Sam Mollaei. Sam is the owner of MollaeiLaw where he’s a business lawyer focused on helping entrepreneurs.
In 2013, Sam started his own virtual law firm right after he graduated from law school, that’s no small thing. And through his law firm Sam has helped over 3,000 entrepreneurs.
Sam also helps other lawyers to build sales funnels and that’s what we’re here to talk about today. Sam is based in Los Angeles.
Sam, welcome to the big show.
Sam Mollaei: Thank you so much, Jared.
Jared Correia: How are things in LA? It’s a hot out there today?
Sam Mollaei: Very good. No, it’s always good. I feel blessed to be here. I encourage all, everybody to visit LA. It’s always a good time.
Jared Correia: Just don’t fly in through LAX because the ninth circle fell, but I digress.
All right, so relatively recently I think you decided to grow beard, right, at least from my online research this is what I’ve found. So who inspires you more to grow your beard; Ulysses S. Grant, Abraham Lincoln or perhaps someone else?
Sam Mollaei: No, actually my wife.
Jared Correia: Really?
Sam Mollaei: So my wife insists on me having a beard. If I touch it she would get really pissed off. So —
Jared Correia: That’s so weird.
Sam Mollaei: So to make her happy, the first lesson of marriage always make her — keep her happy.
Jared Correia: Oh, without a doubt.
Sam Mollaei: So this is my way of keeping her happy.
Jared Correia: But usually wives are anti-beard. So your wife is very progressive, I have to say.
Sam Mollaei: Yeah.
Jared Correia: She is a very modern woman.
Sam Mollaei: Yeah, progressively. Yeah, definitely.
Jared Correia: All right. So we have gotten the facial hair conversation out of the way which is how we start every podcast here obviously. Can you talk a little bit more about how you started and decided to become a lawyer and practice law and then how you got into doing this legal sales funnel work that you’ve been doing with attorneys?
Sam Mollaei: Yeah, so I first started off five years ago in employment law, and just like every litigation lawyer, I kind of contemplating, I am like, am I doing what I love doing? So I started soul-searching talking to different people and I actually read a book called ‘The 4-Hour Workweek’, a very popular book by Tim Ferriss that talked about how to run an online business, how to kind of create automated and systematized kind of online business to be able to generate customers for yourself so that you could do what you love.
So I got inspired by that book and I basically went on my own. I created a website called MollaeiLaw and I started learning about online marketing. In the first year I didn’t really have much to do. I don’t know how to do anything, so I let that to learn everything on my own, and I had a lot of time to get on YouTube, really read a lot of blog articles to basically learn how to generate clients online.
That was good I was learning and had something to apply it to, so right away as soon as I would learn something I would go apply it to my website.
I started basically writing blog articles, started recording videos and a year later all that work that I put into create content kind of kicked in by Google whether if you guys ever want to know. It takes about — mine was literally on the calendar day, 12 months. It literally takes 12 months for any content to start ranking and start doing well. So if you do put on any contents don’t expect to get any results in the first 12 months.
Anyways, I started putting out content and it started — people started seeing it and I got to a point where I was getting a lot of phone calls, too many phone calls. I was at a point where I literally can’t catch up to the number of phone calls actually, so I went and removed my phone number off my website and I started applying kind of a virtual law firm kind of model where I didn’t necessarily — I wasn’t tied into any physical location, I didn’t necessarily have a nine-to-five. I basically would create a system for clients to come in and for those prospects to be able to talk to me through email and I would basically close them through email.
And once I would basically close these clients then the actual work also would be done virtually and this whole system would be kind of automated and systematized for it to be replicated over-and-over.
And now I’m four-and-a-half years in, 3000 clients served through a couple of different websites, through a couple of different services. I’ve learned a lot and I’m hoping to share that kind of knowledge with your audience.
Jared Correia: Awesome. And with lawyers generally who you work with as well, I know. So, clearly part of your vision here has been to great web traffic to your sites, various sites as well. So let’s talk about some specific traffic building tools. So you utilize Google Ads, Facebook Ads, YouTube videos, so can you talk a little bit how law firms can generate web traffic using those three applications?
Sam Mollaei: Sure. So it’s very important to know when it comes to online marketing there’s literally million ways and one way is to do anything to be able to be successful, but what really important is you need to apply the 80/20 Pareto principle to everything you do, especially I mean — you should definitely apply it to everything you do, but especially when it comes to online marketing.
Jared Correia: Can you tell me for what that is, I don’t know and I’m not sure if everybody has listened to?
Sam Mollaei: Yeah, it’s a very powerful technique. It’s a mindset shift I would say more than anything. What the 80/20 Pareto principle says is that 80% of your results come from 20% of your input. So from whatever — let’s just say let me give you a practical example. 80% of your revenue comes from 20% of your clients. And at the same time we could do the inverse. 80% of your time is wasted on 20% of your “bad clients”.
So it’s just a phenomenon that kind of illustrates itself in reality and you wanted to be able to spot those trends, spot those kind of actions, what are those top actions that I could do to give me 80% of my results.
So when it comes to traffic, there’s I could give you the 80/20 right now to your audience. It’s really Google AdWords, organic content marketing and videos.
So let’s talk about videos first because I think that’s the one that’s the most practical, it’s the one that most lawyers can utilize. Videos are very powerful. At this time there is no other tool, there’s no other way that convinces somebody to do something more than videos.
When people see you and they hear you talk, it kind of — it makes it into a real person, just the same way that you go and you want to talk to somebody, it’s 80-90% the same effect as that.
So that’s the first thing. Producing videos that you could distribute through different channels, through YouTube, through Facebook, pretty much through those channels and Instagram.
The second is Google Ads. Google Ads is a paid on a cost-per-click kind of basis where you get whatever you pay for. It is competitive but at the same time there’s a lot of potential that’s still left on table for lawyers, and it scales out really well, just because once you know you have a funnel that — you have something that works well then you can just basically just send Google Ads money to bring more people to that offer.
And then the third is Facebook and Facebook Ads, I would not recommend Facebook Organic, so don’t even waste your time posting things on a Facebook organically, but you could use Facebook Ads to again bring more traffic, more visitors to whatever your offering is.
Jared Correia: And so your idea is to use these tools in conjunction working together as well. This is not just like three separate pipelines.
Sam Mollaei: There are three separate pipelines but ideally obviously, you want to use all three but I would say in the beginning, just pick one, the one that you’re most comfortable with, the one that you understand the most. I would say for lawyers if you’re comfortable with being in front of a camera do videos.
If you are a little more technical then partner with somebody who knows Google Ads, so it really depends on your style.
Jared Correia: And let’s talk about another tactic for converting traffic on the web, so part of it is like generating the web traffic and then it’s great to have a ton of web traffic but you didn’t actually have to convert those folks to clients. So let’s talk a little bit about landing pages. So can you speak to the importance of landing pages for law firms and how you use landing pages to actually convert the leads once you get them?
Sam Mollaei: Yeah, so to kind of explain this whole system of funnels, you just have to understand there’s four parts to it. So the first part is the traffic, which we just discussed. The second part is to capture those visitors and turn them into leads and you do that with landing pages.
landing pages are very simple straightforward website pages that are made to turn a visitor into a lead. And what does it look like? It does not look like a home page so I see the number one mistake the lawyers make in Google Ads, they’re just sending their traffic to a website or your home page, avoid that at all costs or so what you need instead is a landing pages, it’s a designated focused page, it’s very straightforward.
Essentially it’s a logo, headline, sub-headline, pretty much a button and maybe some review screenshots, that’s it. So you basically use the landing page to direct your traffic, your visitors to this page where you’ll be able to capture their name, email address and maybe their phone number as well. And you want to do that from the get-go of this entire system. If you don’t capture the email address, then 98% of people that come on our website just end up leaving so you want to make sure to get the contact information before they leave, that’s the whole point of it.
Jared Correia: Yeah, absolutely, so I think most lawyers would definitely point to a home page rather than a landing page. I think most lawyers don’t know they need to create a separate page for this, so that’s good advice. And the calls-to-action are important, you need like very simple calls-to-action that people can execute on.
Sam Mollaei: Yeah, exactly, very good thing that you pointed that out. Yeah, call-to-action is very important. On a landing page, the call-to-action is literally what matters, it’s the only thing that matters. So the call-to-action should be whatever the end result is, so just the easy way, simple way to do it is just answer “I want to blank”. So whatever you want the visitors to kind of answer that should be your call-to-action. “I want to start my business” so their call-to-action would be “start my business”.
So, say for personal injury lawyer “I want to get my free consultation”, so it’s whatever they get the first — it’s not sort of that in mind.
Jared Correia: Yeah, lawyers are not great at simplicity as you know. All right, so let’s land here for the first segment of the podcast before we get into section two. Here are some of the things that a reasonable lawyer might consider purchasing along with the life-size Buzz Lightyear at all.
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Jared Correia: All right, everybody, thanks for sticking with us. Now, that I’ve located my thong, sandals get your mind out of the gutter, let’s get back to our conversation with Sam Mollaei of MollaeiLaw. We’re talking about building marketing funnels for your law practice. We’ve already talked about building web traffic, we’ve talked about landing pages, let’s talk about something else that lawyers do poorly, nurture campaigns.
I know a lot of lawyers who don’t even know what a nurture campaign is. So a) could you describe what that is since it’s maybe a new marketing term for people, so let’s start there and then we’ll get into how to build these out.
Sam Mollaei: Sure. So, the last part of the funnel, part number two was capturing those leads and now that you captured those leads, what are you going to do with it? So just like in real life people just don’t go from just getting to know you to marrying you. So the same way when it comes to online all those same rules apply, so you need to build that relationship, you need to show them, hey, you are who you are, you can help them.
So that’s done through a kind of like nurturing, and how do you nurture it’s through content and videos and automated email series. So those are different kinds of ways. So practical level what do you do? So once what you want to do is you want to make sure that your landing page is hooked up to an email marketing drip campaign.
There’s two tools that I recommend for this, either ActiveCampaign or ConvertKit. I personally use ConvertKit, it’s very easy to get up and running and basically what I do, as soon as the lead is captured on the landing page, they get a series of 15 to 20 emails in the next six months that automatically gets sent to these prospects that talks about pretty much how it could help these prospects.
And then actually something else that I started doing recently, I started adding videos to inside all of those emails. So imagine you got a video, a very personalized kind of video, it has a picture of me reading, it says, hey, I know you have — these are the top three questions that I could answer about this thing that you’re looking for, I’ll answer for you.
So it’s pretty much through that automated email series, the content, FAQ videos those ways that you can nurture your leads to hopefully turn them into a client.
Jared Correia: So you use ConvertKit, I actually use ActiveCampaign, that’s a good product as well, so you’re on point as far as that’s concerned. And since we are on video, I just want people to know that I found an old Rice Krispie Treat on my desk, so I guess I got to clean up afterwards.
So let’s now segue from Rice Krispie Treats to staying in touch. So there’s another way to nurture relationships with clients, and that is to stay in touch by phone, but lawyers are extremely busy. So how can they tie a content-based nurture campaign to being able to communicate with clients via phone in like a fairly regular manner, like how do you do that as a busy attorney?
Sam Mollaei: Yeah, so to keep in mind the best way to close somebody is to phone. So you always want to get them on the phone. All your nurturing and all your emails everything should direct them to a phone call directly or to a calendaring system like Calendly like Acuity Scheduling, all those different tools that you could just send them to a link say, hey, this is my schedule, go ahead and book a time to speak to our office here.
So you want to make sure to get that set up for your office and you’re going to drive them to pretty much to that calendaring page and then once you get on the phone then that’s where you could close them, retain them and do whatever you need to do.
Jared Correia: And in your experience who close this, a lawyer, a staff person, it doesn’t matter last in 2019 and it did ten years ago?
Sam Mollaei: It depends on exactly where you’re offering, ideally, you want to be, you have the highest chance of closing but at the same time, you kind of have to balance that with is that the best use of my time. I would say for most of you guys yes, but for some of you guys, you could have somebody dedicated who is kind of like a specialist or who is at least does a decent job of being able to actually retain those clients over the phone.
It’s definitely a leak in a lot of people’s funnels where they do it a very good job of marketing but they don’t realize your entire success of all the marking that you do is really reliant on that one person who’s picking up the phone call. So make sure that person is doing their job, make sure that they’re keeping track of every lead that comes in, make sure they follow up all those things, really, really, really matter.
And that’s honestly that’s one of the biggest problems I’ve seen besides the landing page issue where a lot of people are sending traffic to websites that’s the second biggest issue that I see.
Jared Correia: Right, so we’re seeing a system round into place, we’re generating traffic, we’re pushing that traffic to landing pages, we’re calling people to get them to convert that’s the call to action. So let’s talk a little bit about building the groundwork. So before a lawyer even tries to start acquiring referrals and new business from existing clients especially how important is it to underscore any selling that you do with like a clear communication of your value proposition?
Sam Mollaei: Yeah, so you need to be known and this is another huge mistake that I see lawyers making, is that you’re trying to be the jack-of-all-trades kind of be do everything. I made this mistake myself. When I started off, I did entertainment and business law, I think that was like the most general thing I could come up with, that was a big mistake.
Instead, you want to be known as the — let’s say a sexual harassment lawyer or that wage and hour lawyer or that Uber, Lyft accident lawyer, just pick a niche, be known as that one person for that one thing, that way your communication is kind of — is streamlined and also the prospect feels like, okay, I’m talking to somebody who is specialist at that exact one niche, and it’s very important I said.
It’s a big mistake. So if you haven’t already applied the 80/20 principle to — go back, look at your past year, look at the clients that you had and analyze what’s that one type of clients that I’ve had the most. Who are the types of clients that I’d like working with the most, who do I want to continue working with and just pick that one niche and just go forward with that.
Jared Correia: So it’s not only about getting known, it’s getting known in a particular niche, and I think that’s very true but a lot of lawyers overlook that, and you figured that out pretty quickly.
Sam Mollaei: Yeah, you have to, it’s a law, it’s not like whether you want to or not. If you don’t — like really I’m telling you. You guys — I’m sure there’s so many of you guys are hearing this right now, you’re like, oh, okay, yeah, I’ll do it. But I’m telling you, you will not be successful until you pick a niche and just stick with it and make all your marketing and your email signature and your website and everything about that one particular thing, specially – specially when it comes to online marketing and standing out online. Since there are so many people that are doing it.
So do yourself a favor, please take some action, pick one niche and just stick with that.
Jared Correia: Lawyers hate to turn down work, that’s the problem. They try to take everything they can get. It’s like a new way to practice still even now.
Sam Mollaei: Yeah, and that’s usually the first objection like if I want to do — I am like, that’s okay, you could do all those things but your marketing and everything is just still be about one thing.
Jared Correia: I think that’s a good place to end this section. So let’s take our last break. While I try to solve this goddamn Rubik’s Cube I’m working on, listen to these words from our sponsors.
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Jared Correia: By the way I’m really enjoying exploring the video studio space. Perhaps we can get a Poland Spring sponsorship at some point down the line. Hello Poland Spring, I’m in Massachusetts, you’re in Maine, talk to me.
But now let’s get back to the show. Thank you for coming back. You just heard from our real sponsors, may be our future sponsor, Poland Spring Bottled Water and Seltzer. We’re still here talking with Sam Mollaei of MollaeiLaw, who’s telling us all about marketing funnels for law firms. So let’s find out more.
So there’s this concept as well, Sam, that’s I think relatively new for a lot of lawyers which is retargeting or remarketing. Can you talk about what that is?
Sam Mollaei: Yeah. So it’s the lowest hanging fruit that any lawyer can do. So if you do any kind of promotion, it doesn’t matter how you do it. People are checking you out on your website. They’re Googling your name.
By the way if you don’t realize this, all your clients and all your prospects Google you like without a doubt. So I would say like 80-90% do. So make sure that your website looks decent and then where retargeting comes into play is that you need to be able to tell people who have checked you out, who show some interests in you to come back and to become your client or at least your lead.
So why you do practically is you set up Facebook retargeting campaigns, where basically your audience is only your website visitors, you’re saying basically, hey, I know you checked on my website how can I help you? Okay, go to this booking link and book a time with me.
It’s the easiest thing that lawyers can do, it’s the easiest marketing that anyone could do, and if you’re not doing this you’re leaving a lot of money on the table. It’s as simple as putting up a video or putting up some testimonials. I do this extensively and I would say a lot of my clients come through retargeting.
Jared Correia: Yeah, and I think part of the issue for lawyers is that like they have got to figure out the messaging for each of these marketing channels, because the messaging is slightly different. The message on a retargeting page is a little bit different from the message on a landing page, and I think lawyers struggle with that, like building out different kinds of content for different kinds of pipelines.
Sam Mollaei: And you could actually kind of sort that out in Facebook. You could say, hey people, who — let’s just say, I have different — four different services. So you could tell Facebook, hey Facebook, anybody who has been on these specific pages about this specific service then show them this specific video and there’s like different marketing channels and they all being kind of directed different videos based on the pages that they’ve been on.
Jared Correia: Right, and again, as we talked about before like part of this is pushing traffic in the right directions and then part of it is converting. So for lawyers in particular like how should they buttress any retargeting efforts they make by improving their intake procedures? Because even if you retarget effectively you still have to eventually convert, right?
Sam Mollaei: Yeah, the whole point of the retargeting is to convert your current people that are most interested in you. So, yeah, you either — if you haven’t captured the email address you’re going to be sending one to the landing page and you can also set up another retargeting campaign that says, hey, these are people who are my leads but they haven’t become clients yet. So that could be a different retargeting video.
Jared Correia: Nice, and then we funnel into the nurture campaign. Hey, there’s like a whole system in place here. Did you do this on purpose?
Sam Mollaei: Yeah, pretty much, I kind of conceptualized this kind of concept and I’ve done it for myself and I’m exploring — doing this kind of creating both for you kind of campaigns for lawyers that lawyers can replicate this. This thing is like funnel, they are created for myself, for themselves. It would be kind of like a plug-and-play kind of a way to be able to do this for your own law firm.
Jared Correia: Right, so the legal funnels is essentially like the brand that you’re providing to attorneys. Cool. So if you want to market like Sam, that’s where you go, right?
Sam Mollaei: Yeah. If anybody is interested in these kinds of virtual law model or generating clients online, get in contact with me, and I’ll be happy to share more information with you or I’ll be able to share kind of my legal funnels with you.
Jared Correia: Cool, and we’re going to give you an opportunity to give people some links to go to including your Facebook page, I think which is cool as well later on. But you want to have a little bit of fun. I’ve got one last segment I want to run through with you. Are you ready?
Sam Mollaei: Sure. Yeah.
Jared Correia: So this is a segment I call that social media post that you forget about. Here I read back an old social media post of yours and you comment on it. Are you ready?
Sam Mollaei: Let’s do it. I’m so excited.
Jared Correia: Good. Good, that was mostly rhetorical I was going to do it anyway.
So from your Facebook account on July 16, 2017 you linked to an article that reference the following fact. I thought this was interesting. A duckling takes anyone it sees most often during the first 10 minutes after birth for its mother. So that explains to me like every greeting card that was ever made like a duckling with a puppy, a duckling with like an elephant. So in your opinion what would be like the weirdest duckling mother pairing? I’ve got three options for you and you can also create your own, a duckling and an elephant, a duckling and Mike Trout. See I did like a whole animal thing there, and a duckling and Cousin Oliver from ‘The Brady Bunch’, or can you think of an even weirder duckling mother pairing? I think this is a good note to end on. No pressure.
You were totally expecting this, right?
Sam Mollaei: Totally, that’s awesome.
Jared Correia: That’s why we do this segment. Look at that natural reaction.
Sam Mollaei: This is totally as natural as it gets. I guess, I would go with duckling and an elephant.
Jared Correia: Yeah. I think that’s a good call, that’s a safe bet.
Sam Mollaei: I mean, whatever floats your boat, you know, and if anything that you feel like you could do.
Jared Correia: I feel like this turned into a Reddit AMA but we got through it.
So that’s where we’re going to end it. We’ve reached the end of yet another episode of The Legal Toolkit podcast. This was the podcast about creating law firm marketing funnels, and we’ve been talking with Sam Mollaei of MollaeiLaw.
Now, I will be back on future shows with further insights into my soul, the soul of America and the legal market. If you are feeling nostalgic from my dulcet tones; however, you can check out our entire show archive any time you want at legaltalknetwork.com.
So thanks again to Sam Mollaei of MollaeiLaw for making an appearance as my guest today.
So Sam, can you tell everybody how they can find out more about you, your law practice and how you help lawyers create marketing funnels?
Sam Mollaei: Sure. So you could visit me at legalfunnel.com or you can email me at [email protected]. I do have a Facebook group also for lawyers called Legal Funnel Members. Just search for it on Facebook, you will be able to find it. I am pretty much, I’m adding pretty much my goal in the next six to twelve months to add as much value as I can to lawyers to be able to create — teach and empower lawyers to create legal funnels and run a virtual law firm the same way I did, and then automate it in a scalable way.
So if you’re interested in that, find me anyway; websites, Facebook group or email.
Jared Correia: Nice, everybody, talk to this man. This is Sam Mollaei of MollaeiLaw finally. Thanks to all of you out there for listening.
This has been The Legal Toolkit podcast where our favorite Pixar movie is ‘Cars 2’. Actually scratch that, that movie sucks.
Outro: Thanks for listening to Legal Toolkit, produced by the broadcast professionals at Legal Talk Network. Join host Jared Correia for his next podcast covering the current business trends for law firms.
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Legal Toolkit highlights services, ideas, and programs that will improve lawyers' practices and workflow.
Crushendo CEO Adam Balinski gives an overview of the many challenges and changes in bar prep and exams throughout the pandemic.
Stephen Seckler describes how coaching can help lawyers build their practice and have greater career satisfaction.
Scott Brennan of Lexicon discusses tactics for increasing profits at your law firm.
Tucker Cottingham reveals the ‘why’ behind common inefficiencies in legal practice.
Steven Lando, a CPA and tax partner at Anchin, explains the ins and outs of PPP loans for legal professionals.
Timothy Bowers offers insights from his many years of successful virtual legal practice.