Jane Oxley is president of Smokeball, which provides cloud-based legal practice management software for lawyers. Jane is passionate about...
Jared D. Correia, Esq. is the CEO of Red Cave Law Firm Consulting, which offers subscription-based law firm business...
What does upping productivity actually look like for your law firm? Many lawyers find themselves at a loss when considering first steps, but Jared Correia welcomes Jane Oxley, president of Smokeball, to demystify the process. They discuss best practices for assessing your firm’s particular needs and offer tips for how to go about choosing a vendor for practice management software. They also talk about specific solutions to lawyers’ common pain points, including automatic time tracking, email management, and legal document automation.
Jane Oxley is president of Smokeball.
The Legal Toolkit
Raise Your Productivity: Picking the Right Tools for Your Small Law Firm
Intro: Welcome to Legal Toolkit, bringing you the latest legal trends and business initiatives to help you manage your law firm, with your host Jared Correia. You are listening to Legal Talk Network.
Jared Correia: Hello everybody and welcome to another episode of the award-winning Legal Toolkit Podcast here on the Legal Talk Network. If you are looking for the series finale of Game of Thrones, you might want to skip that one. Word to the wise, no spoilers here but just so you know.
If you are a returning listener, welcome back. If you are a first-time listener, hopefully you will become a longtime listener.
And if you know what bubble tea is, can you please tell me.
As always, I am your show host Jared Correia, and in addition to casting this pod, I am the CEO of Red Cave Law Firm Consulting, which offers subscription-based law practice management consulting services to law firms, bar associations and legal vendors. Check us out at redcavelegal.com.
I am also the COO of Gideon Software, Inc., which offers chatbots, a first to market Chatbot Builder and predictive analytics created specifically for law firms. Find out more at www.gideon.legal.
Last, but not least, because I don’t have enough to do clearly, you can listen to my other podcast, The Lobby List, a family travel show I host with my wife Jessica on iTunes. Subscribe, rate and comment.
I think I am the star of the show. My wife thinks differently.
But here on The Legal Toolkit, we provide you twice each month with a new tool to add to your own legal toolkit so that your practices will become more and more like best practices.
In this episode, we are going to talk about how to build a more productive small law firm.
But before I introduce today’s guests, let’s take a moment to thank our sponsors without whom there would be no such podcast.
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My guest today is Jane Oxley, who is the President of Smokeball. Smokeball empowers small law firms to manage emails and documents easily, create documents faster through clever automation and provides a digital filing system in the cloud so law firm and staff can work together from anywhere.
Jane has worked with Smokeball and LEAP since 2008, so she’s been in the legal vertical for quite a while.
And I should say, I can’t forget to mention this. This is Jane’s first podcast. So I’m very excited that she’s come to us.
Jane, welcome to the big show.
Jane Oxley: Thanks Jared. I’m really excited to be here for my first podcast.
Jared Correia: We’re going to go easy on you, don’t worry. So —
Jane Oxley: I know what bubble tea is, if that helps.
Jared Correia: Oh, can you tell me what it is, I have no idea what bubble tea is.
Jane Oxley: My 13 year old loves it. It’s like a tea that’s very popular in Asia and you basically put like, they put lumps of boba in it, which are like these little tapioca bubbles. So it had a really big straw that you suck them up through. It’s kind of weird. I’m not a fan of it.
Jared Correia: Sounds horrible. Thank you for letting me know though.
Jane Oxley: No worries.
Jared Correia: I think I will stick to regular tea. Anything tapioca, I am not a tapioca guy.
Jane Oxley: It doesn’t sound good. But anyway.
Jared Correia: Not particularly appetizing. Well, thank you. Thank you. Now, I’m never going to have to buy a bubble tea, so I appreciate that.
Jane Oxley: Pleasure.
Jared Correia: You saved me probably like 30 bucks because I bet that’s how much they cost.
Jane Oxley: Something like that.
Jared Correia: So, let’s talk about you. I always start off with an icebreaker question, so here is yours. You made what I think is probably a really poor life decision. You moved from Australia to Chicago respectfully why on earth would you do that? You know it’s cold in Chicago, right?
Jane Oxley: Yeah. Well there is a couple of reasons, and I think one thing I should say that I did not realize how cold Chicago got when I moved here. I had really no clue. In fact, I thought it only got this cold in like, at the poles basically, but the reason I did it was because I moved countries, when I was small from New Zealand to Australia and I thought it was really good for me as a human and there I thought I’d give my kids the same experience.
And then, all right the main reason was really to start something. You know, Smokeball was a brand new product. This was a brand new market and I love, I love building things.
I love starting something from nothing and watching it grow. So it was a really great opportunity to do that on the other side of the world.
Jared Correia: And so are your kids enjoying Chicago?
Jane Oxley: My kids love Chicago, yeah.
Jared Correia: Okay.
Jane Oxley: I mean we’ve been here for five years now so they’re kind of part of the 00:05:16.
Jared Correia: So you’re used to it.
Jane Oxley: Yeah, yeah, I mean they don’t mind the cold mostly.
Jared Correia: Well good, just so you know pretty, pretty cold in Chicago, but I will — so I am in New Hampshire a lot, which is just north of where I live in Massachusetts, and last year we went up and I got out of the current, it was negative 45 degrees.
Jane Oxley: Ooh.
Jared Correia: Yes. My kids are like why don’t you bring all the stuff in to the condo, and I was like great, no one else wants to volunteer, but they’re like watch out for bears, and I was basically like all the bears are dead, insanely cold.
Jane Oxley: They are frozen into cave.
Jared Correia: Pretty much. Yes, is that, have you seen that cold in Chicago yet or no?
Jane Oxley: It did this winter. It was like a — I think they called it, like a second polar vortex and we had to work from home for two days because basically you gets frostbite in a minute which seems inconceivable but yeah, so we dutifully stayed inside and did not die. So that’s a good thing for our clients.
Jared Correia: Nice work living, welcome to America.
Jane Oxley: Yes.
Jared Correia: All right, so let’s get to real questions, because this is a Legal Toolkit podcast and people want to talk about law firm stuff, right, so leaving aside your questionable geographic choices.
So let’s talk about a subject that’s near and dear to your heart, I know, productive law firms. So just broadly like why is it really important for law firms to be productive in this day and age where there’s so much competition out there for legal services?
Jane Oxley: Yeah, well because I’m a nerd I kind of got the definition of productivity which is basically the effectiveness of productive efforts as measured in terms of the rate of output per unit of input.
So I think even taking the competitive landscape off the table, if you’re not geared up to be productive as a law firm you’re basically working too hard. You are working too hard and you’re not getting the benefit out of it and as someone who works with smaller law firms exclusively, we feel that they do really important work in their communities and they’re helping small businesses and families with all of their mess and they deserve to have a more enjoyable time doing it, they deserve to make some more money doing it and they can also help more people if they are more productive. If they got more output.
So I think it’s — and then when you layer in the competitive aspect, which is that –the more productive you are the more you can compete on price and in other term it’s going to get to the point where you either need to be productively or you’re going to have to sort of more productive than you are today or perhaps you won’t survive.
Jared Correia: I know this is your first podcast because you took the time to come up with a definition for productivity, so I appreciate that. I just want to let you know.
Jane Oxley: Well thanks. Pleasure.
Jared Correia: I started prepping for this podcast in 2015, don’t tell me. So –
Jane Oxley: So you did the whole theme around productivity, so I was like well you know, what is productivity.
Jared Correia: Well there’s some prep, don’t lie, don’t – you don’t need to blow my entire spot here, so I did do a little bit of work.
So, well let’s, let’s move in the direction of talking a little bit more about productivity, because I think it’s hard for a lot of law firms to like get more productive, they don’t know what that means, is it mindset changes, it’s something else. It’s like what’s the most important first step for a law firm to decide that they’re going to get more productive and then move ahead and actualize that? Like what’s the first thing they should be doing?
Jane Oxley: I think it is a mindset change. I think you probably hit the nail on the head. I was talking to a friend a few weeks ago who’s on the board of a mid-sized law firm and finally and after she was having a conversation at the board about one of the groups in the firm saying that they needed to increase their productivity and the partner who is the head of that group said, yeah, we need to hire more people, and I think that has sort of been as long-standing thing for a lot of firms is that productivity equals headcount and that simply isn’t the case.
And I think really what it is, is about treating your law firm as a business, and as soon as you do that, you start looking at KPIs and numbers and you start to understand how productive you are and where opportunities lie, and I think as someone who is inside a lot of law firms I visit many, many law firms every month, I can tell how productive they are really as soon as I start talking to one of the owners and the clue is usually that you can tell they treat it as a business. And the difference between the best firms that work with us and the ones that struggle the most really, it’s really the same line.
If you are happy to accept that you are not only a lawyer but also a businessperson. You’re going to have a more productive business and you’re also going to be able to do a better job of doing the law at the same time. You’ll have more time to devote to the law and not to kind of feeling like you’re cleaning up messes or you’re speeding out of control the whole time.
Jared Correia: That’s great. I’m totally on-board with that philosophy like throwing staff, throwing money had a problem in just a bulk fashion, it’s generally not going to fix anything.
Jane Oxley: It’s not, but I think that’s — I think it’s how a lot of law firms grow up that and even in our industry people say how successful are you and they go how many people have you got, and that’s not a definition of productivity. If you can make hundreds of millions with three people, I think you’re doing better than if you’ve got 3,000 people.
Jared Correia: Oh, absolutely, and on that note we are going to take our first break. Here are some of the things that you should buy.
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Jared Correia: Okay, thanks for sticking around. Now that I’ve completed level 84 on the original Super Mario Bros., we can return to our conversation with Jane Oxley of Smokeball. We are here talking about productive law firms, so let’s be productive and get back to it.
So, Jane, one of the ways that law firms can become really productive is by having the right technology and we’ll talk specifically about some technology options in a second; but, how does a law firm choose the right software, which is a question I get constantly in my consulting work?
Jane Oxley: Yeah, I think it’s a really hard question, isn’t it? I think the best way to do it is probably before you look at a single product you need to figure out what you actually need, and I think a lot of law firms don’t do that and in sales we kind of call them your pain points, but I think maybe you look at it as in what are the major time sucks in your firm. So where are you spending a lot of time that you really don’t need to be spending time or what opportunities for you to do things faster? I think it’s really important that you not only look at the attorneys but also your staff or your staff to use the American term because we’re — I mean they often have a really good handle on where you’re losing time and where opportunities lie. So I think don’t start by looking at products to just kind of do a blanket, I’m going to increase productivity, look at what you need, and then make a checklist of what you’re looking for, and when you’re looking at products make sure you actually see the product doing the thing that they say it can do. I see this all the time in the wild that they said that it would do this but it doesn’t do it. So make sure you see it, you see how many clicks it takes, you see what it looks like. You can see that it’s user-friendly, all those kind of things and I can tell you that 95 out of a 100 firms that we encounter in sales don’t do this. They do not come with a checklist of what they’re looking for. They kind of like we need to make whatever it is, be more productive, we need to solve this pain point, we need to get some software and they just get the one that for whatever reason in the sales process appeals to them the most, I think you really need to look at what problem is that you’re trying to solve, and from there that’s when you can start talking to, yeah, consultants, friends, colleagues, practice management advisors at your local bar association, and then I think the other piece is before you engage with a company make sure that the company is a good company.
So service is everything when it comes to software, you need to have — make sure that you’re finding the right partner to work with, I’d say that one clue would be something like a business — you know on the best place to work with, that kind of thing, some kind of independent verification that these are good people. If they’re good to their staff, they tend to be good to their clients. It’s kind of usually a virtuous circle that happens.
So, know what you’re looking for, make sure you’re finding someone who’s going to be a partner from you and then seek verification from people that you know or people that work in a similar practice area to you because they are more likely to have the same pain points as you.
Jared Correia: Yeah, that’s great. I especially like your notion of like asking a software provided to perform a function rather than just to suggesting that it exists because I have seen that happen before as well.
Jane Oxley: Yeah.
Jared Correia: So let’s now talk about like specific features of products. So document automation I think is a great way to get more productive-like and it’s really severely underutilized in the legal industry. So, can you talk a little bit about the value of document automation so it’s just not me saying it anymore?
Jane Oxley: Yeah, well, I’m on this side with you. I’m a bit of an evangelist. I think document automation is definitely one of the low-hanging fruits for productivity. It’s pretty obvious that you’re going to increase the output for the input that you put in. I don’t know why — I mean maybe people are scared of by the fact that you do have to do some legwork at the beginning and you got to put that work in but then you definitely get it back many, many, many times once you do that work.
When I look at document automation in Smokeball, it’s not only just merge fields that fill in information so you’re not repetitively typing the same thing over-and-over again. It’s also changing — you can change what happens in the document based on the facts of the case which saves you more time. So if you’re doing a complicated trust and there’s children, it can put in paragraphs that would not be there if there were no children listed on the matter and so on and so forth.
So, I mean, we had clients who’ve told us that a trust document that took them an-hour-and-a-half previously would take ten minutes, which is a huge benefit. But even if you’re not doing trust and you’re just doing, you know, standard letters or pleadings, it just saves you a ton of time and when you look at the cost of software versus the cost of headcount — going back to headcount, software is really, really cheap and accessible and you get — there’s other bonuses, like you get the bonus of lower risk of error, which is great for any business. You get the bonus of standardization which I actually think is really, really important.
As someone who runs a business I want to know that when our staff are engaging with our clients, they’re engaging in a way that we would be proud of and in a lot of small law firms every staff member, every attorney can have their own engagement letter. They can have their own documents that they use. If I was the owner of a small law firm, I would like to know that the engagement letter was standardized that we are very happy with this professional image and the wording is important, mitigates risk for your firm.
So putting that legwork in to get a standardized set of documents is not only making you far more productive, it’s also making sure you have a professional face to the world, that you’re proud of the work that you do and you’re not sending documents out with errors which is potentially embarrassing or all worth depending on the case.
Jared Correia: I couldn’t have said it better myself. So since you talked about pain points before, let’s talk about another big pain point for lawyers, time-tracking, right? Lawyers hate time-tracking they always have. Nobody likes to be beholden to a clock.
So, I know that there are some legal-specific products out there that are offering automatic time-tracking, either as a standalone software or as part of a larger software. So how’s that work, how can lawyers become comfortable with utilizing something like that, because I think a lot of people don’t know about this even at this juncture, so if you give us a little overview and why you would do automatic time-tracking, that would be great.
Jane Oxley: I think automatic time-tracking is a total no-brainer because I’ve never met a lawyer who enjoys tracking their time. As you said, it’s not something that you enjoy at all and I can talk about it through our lens because the way we do it is it sounds like kind of like – yeah, it sounds like Voodoo Magic but basically Smokeball is a product that you use from end-to-end. So you’re creating your documents, you’re reviewing emails, it’s pulling your emails in, it’s got your calendar, you’ve got basically everything you do, your calendar events, like your meetings, your court attendance and so on. We actually kind of realize that a few years ago that we knew what our clients were doing better than they know themselves and so we just started building all these timers behind everything that we do and we realize that we already know what matter they’re working on because everything is tied to a case and we rolled it out probably two years ago, and I think at the beginning people were pretty skeptical of it, because it does seem kind of strange on some front to trust the software to do this. But it’s very transparent. You can see every day that this time doesn’t go straight onto an invoice. So we do enter the time for you. We can do that if they want to do that, but it doesn’t in a very granular way.
So, if you’re a family law firm obviously you’re at the scrutiny of the court a lot, they look at your bills and decide whether or not you should get paid for all this work that you’ve done. So it’s really important that you are granular and show every piece of work that you did and we’re able to do that.
So, look, I think, it’s a no-brainer. I feel like people often don’t believe that can be done, and you’re right, there are other tools like I don’t know, all of them but like her matter that do it as a standalone that integrates with other software.
I mean so Nancy Chausow Shafer, who is a client of ours, she is a family law attorney and she tells me that she is billing 30% more now. And I wondered how that could be, but it’s not only that she was pretty terrible at keeping track of her time before; it was also that how she is valuing her time, because small law firms, particularly again that’s my world, tend to — they are not the ones who tend to overcharge generally, they tend to undercharge, because they look at their client and they think they can’t afford this.
So they start by terribly recording their time, so they are already kind of under a lot, and then they discount it down from there. So they are not even close to the realistic amount of time they spent on the case.
And as Nancy said to me last week, she realized that sometimes she thought she was spending five minutes on a document, but she was actually spending 30 minutes, which is a big difference in a day.
Jared Correia: Oh yeah, sounds about right.
Jane Oxley: Yeah.
Jared Correia: And nice shout out to Chrometa by the way, my friend Brett Owens, unfortunately a Buffalo Bills fan. Go ahead.
Jane Oxley: And then on the other side of automatic time tracking is that there is definitely a shift to flat fee or fixed fee work, which is something as a consumer of legal services I am a really big fan of. But I think law firms are really scared of doing it and the only way to be able to understand if you are profitable on flat fee work, that’s hard to say, is if you do track your time.
And so with Smokeball or Chrometa or another service, you can actually see how much it costs you to get that work done. And in the back of Smokeball you can put in everyone’s overhead. So if you have got three staff working on a case, we can kind of put in what their annual salary, plus overheads is and then it will say look, you billed $5,000 for this estate plan and this person did this much work, this person did this much work, this person did this much work, and this is how much you made or did not make on the case.
So it gives you, even if you are not a time biller, it gives you really great tools to understand how you can be profitable and how you can set fixed fees or how you can move towards them as well.
Jared Correia: Yeah, you make a great point that lawyers are bad at billing for value and then they are also bad about trusting software, which you kind of have to do to an extent in the modern world.
So with that, we will come to our last break. Now, while I look for the souvenir popcorn helmet I bought last night at the Red Sox game, listen to these words from our sponsors.
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Jared Correia: Hey, thanks for coming back one more time. We will try to do better in this segment. So let’s get back to our conversation with Jane Oxley of Smokeball, who is talking to me about how you can get more productive in your law firm.
So Jane, at this point we have talked about different types of software tools that lawyers can use, but one problem with using a lot of different software tools is that you will quickly find that your information becomes siloed. So you have got one set of information in here, one set of information in there and you are dealing with maybe nine different sets of info across nine different software platforms.
So how can lawyers manage for that and try to make sense of all of that potentially segregated data?
Jane Oxley: It’s a really good question and it’s one that I don’t think there is an easy answer to. I think fundamentally you don’t want to have critical information in multiple places and that is why people often want to find software in the first place is to kind of streamline their operations.
And if I think about it just across the legal market, what I tend to find is that if you look at big law, they always go through the best of breed with software. So they are choosing the best document management system and the best email management system and the best billing system, and they have big teams of people who try to make sure that these systems talk together in a decent way at all times, but those resources, they are just not available to smaller law firms.
So I think you need to find a product which is going to be your source of truth and something like Smokeball or another case management system, there is a lot of them out there now, is definitely going to be the main place where you are going to have your data. And from there, there are going to be integrations and depending on the product, there could be many available or not so many available.
So if you look at Clio, for example, there is a million different integrations available. If you look at Smokeball, we don’t have a million integrations, but we try and choose the ones that we believe are the best for our clients and we do really, really deep integrations to make sure that they are really fail-safe, because we know that our clients don’t have this big IT team, and if they need help, guess who they are going to call? They are going to call us and we want to make sure that it works well.
So I think choose something that’s going to be your source of the truth, and again, just as I was saying before about that — if there is something that you need, see it in action, don’t just hear that it does it. I sort of call them checkbox features or checkbox integrations. If there is an integration that is really important to you, see how it works in action, because email management integration can be very, very different and it could be something that requires more manual work and more manual clicks, or it can be something that’s totally automatic and eliminates the whole task from your life.
So I think the first thing is choose your one systems rule, whatever that’s going to be and then make sure that’s critical — the critical integrations that you need are available to you.
Jared Correia: All right, easy question, what’s the number one problem you see facing small law firms and how should they fix that problem, no pressure?
Jane Oxley: Yeah, I mean all the easy questions. I am guessing that your audience is probably not a typical small law firm.
Jared Correia: No, they are the wisest small law firms in the country, perhaps around the globe, right everyone?
Jane Oxley: Okay. So I would say that the biggest problem that I see is that law firms can feel disorganized, a bit out of control, stressed out and worried about deadlines, which is not one problem, but I think it kind of — it’s like a general malaise of, this is harder than it should be. Does that make sense?
Jared Correia: Yes, that is — disorganization is a problem, even with the more organized.
Jane Oxley: Yeah.
Jared Correia: The more organized law firms are still relatively disorganized and I think they know it, for the most part.
Jane Oxley: They do know, and I mean I think it’s funny, because Smokeball does a lot of different things, but when I speak to people about why they love it, they will usually say it’s because everything is in one place. And I think getting your data into one place where you feel like you can put your hands on your data at any time I think is really, really important for your stress management.
Jared Correia: So that makes sense, like getting your data in one place prevents siloing, it also helps you to become more organized.
Let’s talk a little bit about a cool advertising campaign you guys recently came out with, which got some coverage in the legal media and perhaps the regular media as well, I don’t know. But Smokeball just did a couple I think of YouTube commercials featuring Calista Flockhart; many people know her more along the lines of Ally McBeal, which was a famous legal show set in Boston. So I think that’s totally unique in the legal tech world. I haven’t seen anybody get like a celebrity endorser before.
So why did you decide to go that particular route and then can you promise me that you will get Calista Flockhart on this podcast too, because I feel like that needs to happen.
Jane Oxley: So yeah, it is I think totally unique. It was definitely something a little bit crazy I think that we did, but we definitely wanted to do something different, it’s a really competitive market, believe it or not, the small law firm practice management, case management space and we wanted to do something that would kind of put us on the map and also put the whole automatic time tracking piece of Smokeball on the map, if you have watched the video, Calista talks about it at length.
Jared Correia: Yeah. Oh, I like how you are friends; you guys are on a first name basis, that’s pretty cool.
Jane Oxley: She is very nice, and I think it wouldn’t have happened if the creatives wasn’t good, it was a really good funny script and —
Jared Correia: It was funny, it was like legitimately funny.
Jane Oxley: Yeah, legitimately, and it’s crawling its way through the Interwebs and that’s what we want it to do. So I think it was a good decision, but it was — yeah, it definitely surprised a lot of people, and I can promise you that it is highly unlikely she would come up at the podcast.
Jared Correia: Oh man. This is too bad.
Jane Oxley: I am sorry.
Jared Correia: She should reconsider, Calista, if you are out there, we can be friends too, just like you and Jane.
All right, my last question to you. There’s a new segment I’ve created, it’s called Tweets you Forgot About. So I read you back an old tweet of yours and you comment on it. Are you ready?
Jane Oxley: I think so.
Jared Correia: All right, good, because that was largely a rhetorical question but I was going to ask you anyway.
Okay, here’s your tweet, from November 2nd, 2016, everyone is out on the street. Why was everyone out on the street, what happened?
Jane Oxley: November the 2nd?
Jared Correia: Yes 2016. Now –
Jane Oxley: Oh I know, I know why, I know why, the Cubs won the World Series. Is it one?
Jared Correia: Right.
Jane Oxley: Yeah, that was really exciting.
Jared Correia: Correct.
Jane Oxley: I am the Cubs’ fan.
Jared Correia: So have you become — so all right, you are Cubs’ fan, I am right, have you become a Cubs’ fan since you moved to Chicago or you inexplicably a Cubs’ fan in New Zealand?
Jane Oxley: I was really never a fan of any sport but the Cubs somehow like gets into your soul and I live probably half an hour walk from Wrigley Field, so I can stroll down on a summer evening, with a beverage in your hand and it’s a beautiful experience. So yeah.
Jared Correia: A beverage you say like bubble tea?
Jane Oxley: Or a beer maybe, I will choose my American beer, beer.
Jared Correia: Oh that’s better, that’s better. So you have become a Cubs’ fan, that’s good. I mean you came at the right time, everybody else had to wait like 108 years for a World Series.
Jane Oxley: I know.
Jared Correia: But you got to wait like three.
Jane Oxley: Yes, three.
Jared Correia: It’s pretty good.
Jane Oxley: Very lucky, very lucky.
Jared Correia: As someone who has had a long World Series out as well, for the White Sox. So, that’s really fun to break a curse like that. So –
Jane Oxley: Yeah.
Jared Correia: I hope and you’re still going to games I assume as well from time to time?
Jane Oxley: I am, I have been to three already to see.
Jared Correia: Oh, that’s pretty good yeah. They’re good team. I got some Cubs on my fantasy baseball team. All right, we can end with that. I won’t torture you any longer, sadly, sadly in particular this time, because this was fun episode. Jane Oxley’s first podcast.
We’ve reached the end of yet another episode of The Legal Toolkit podcast. This was a podcast about Law Firm productivity and we’ve been talking again with Jane Oxley of Smokeball.
Now, I’ll be back on future shows with further insights into My Soul, the Soul of America and the Legal Market.
If you’re feeling nostalgic for my dulcet tones however you can check out our entire show archive anytime you want at legaltalknetwork.com.
So thanks again to Jane Oxley of Smokeball for making an appearance as my guest today.
All right Jane, can you tell everyone how they can find out more about you and about Smokeball.
Jane Oxley: I guess the best way is to go to www.smokeball.com. Or you can reach me on LinkedIn, I am just Jane Oxley. There are a ton of us out there, or you can email me if you want, [email protected].
Jared Correia: Remember to find this Jane Oxley, and Smokeball just to confirm is a law practice management software system. It’s not a bath bomb or a type of firework, right?
Jane Oxley: No, unfortunately, not as exciting as that.
Jared Correia: That’s just, next time, that’s your next career.
All right, so thanks again to Jane Oxley of Smokeball. Finally, thanks to all of you out there for listening. This has been The Legal Toolkit podcast where we don’t need no stinking badges.
Outro: Thanks for listening to Legal Toolkit, produced by the broadcast professionals at Legal Talk Network. Join host Jared Correia for his next podcast covering the current business trends for law firms.
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The views expressed by the participants of this program are their own and do not represent the views of, nor are they endorsed by Legal Talk Network, its officers, directors, employees, agents, representatives, shareholders, and subsidiaries. None of the content should be considered legal advice. As always, consult a lawyer.
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