Dorie Clark is an adjunct professor at Duke University’s Fuqua School of Business and the author of Entrepreneurial You, Reinventing You, and Stand...
Jared D. Correia, Esq. is the CEO of Red Cave Law Firm Consulting, which offers subscription-based law firm business...
Making money is a pretty important part of practicing law and, as good as you may be at it, you can always do better at raking in the dough. In this episode of the Legal Toolkit, host Jared Correia talks to marketing ninja Dorie Clark about what lawyers can do to bring in more revenue in a chaotic marketplace. They discuss things like building a brand in a saturated field, using the gig economy to your advantage, and marketing yourself through podcasting or online courses. As a bonus, tune into Jared’s Tom Petty playlist on Spotify:
Dorie Clark is an adjunct professor at Duke University’s Fuqua School of Business and the author of “Entrepreneurial You,” “Reinventing You,” and “Stand Out.”
The Legal Toolkit
Flirting with Revenue How to Make Money as a Lawyer
Intro: Welcome to Legal Toolkit, bringing you the latest legal trends and business initiatives to help you manage your law firm, with your host Jared Correia. You are listening to Legal Talk Network.
Jared Correia: Hey, welcome to a new episode of The Legal Toolkit, you are on the Legal Talk Network. If you were looking for my 30s, well, you are s**t out of luck.
If you are a returning listener, welcome back. If you are a first-time listener, hopefully you will become a longtime listener, and if you are Ambrose Small, probably no one knows where the f**k you disappeared to.
As always, I am your host, Jared Correia, and in addition to casting this pod, I am the Founder and CEO of Red Cave Law Firm Consulting, which offers subscription-based law practice management, consulting and technology services for law firms. Check us out at HYPERLINK “http://www.redcavelegal.com” redcavelegal.com.
You can also buy my book ‘Twitter in One Hour for Lawyers’ from the American Bar Association on iTunes and Amazon, and probably at the Pickwick Book Shop in Nyack, New York which is right next door to Sleepy Hollow.
Here on The Legal Toolkit however we provide you each month with a new tool to add to your own legal toolkit so that your practices will become more-and-more like best practices.
Now before we get started today, I feel like it’s an appropriate time to pour out a little liquor from a dead homie 01:35 Tom Petty. So here are my top five obscured 01:39 Tom Petty songs for your listening pleasure. I am going to count them down.
Number one, Girl on LSD. This is a deleted track, unreleased track I should say, that was intended as a B-side for the single Wildflowers, what was considered too controversial by Warner Brothers to have it released, and you can probably understand why.
Number two, Kings Highway, but not the album version, the live version, which is on the Playback box set.
Number three, The Same Old You. This is like kickass rocking Tom Petty and it was a track that wasn’t released from the album Long After Dark.
Number four, Poor House. You know I had to get a Traveling Wilburys song on here and here it is. Now, this is off the lesser known Volume III, which is not to be confused with Volume I, which had all the hits on it in 1988.
Last but not least, number five, Flirting With Time, from the very unrated final solo disc of Tom Petty’s career called Highway Companion.
Now, as you all know, nobody was a bigger TP fan than Mr. 02:49, but Ms. April comes pretty close.
Back to the show, in this episode, we are going to talk about monetizing your experience and diversifying your portfolio.
But, before I introduce today’s guest, let’s take a moment to thank our sponsors.
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Now today’s guest is Dorie Clark. Dorie is an adjunct professor at Duke University’s Fuqua School of Business and the author of three books, Entrepreneurial You, Reinventing You and Stand Out. The last of which was named the #1 Leadership Book of 2015 by Inc. magazine. A former presidential campaign spokeswoman, the New York Times described her as an “expert at self-reinvention and helping others make changes in their lives.” A frequent contributor to the Harvard Business Review, she consults and speaks for clients like Google, Microsoft, and the World Bank. So that’s pretty good.
In addition to all of those tremendous accolades, Dorie is basically the Alec Baldwin of Legal Toolkit Podcast, having wrapped up the most guest appearances of anyone else to this point. This is actually Dorie’s third guest appearance on the show.
So welcome back to the show, Dorie, and how does it feel to be the most frequent guest on Legal Toolkit?
Dorie Clark: This is a big honor. This is big time, Jared, thank you so much.
Jared Correia: Early holiday gift for you. Put that one on your map though. So I feel like we have you on the show every time you come out with a book or every time a book of yours is in pre-production. So for each of your three books that I mentioned in your bio, you have been on and your latest book is called Entrepreneurial You. So can you give me a brief synopsis of that title?
Dorie Clark: Absolutely. So Entrepreneurial You is about a topic that is, I think near and dear to the hearts of any entrepreneur or small business owner, including attorneys, which is — how do you actually make a living from your endeavor?
My most recent passbook, Stand Out, was about how do you get well-known in your field? How do you build a brand for yourself? How do you gain the respect of your peers and your community? Of course, that is important, even essential but it does not pay the bills.
And so as a sequel, I wanted to write Entrepreneurial You, which is really a Brass Tacks look and how people actually bring in revenue today in an increasingly chaotic and disrupted marketplace. How can people actually build a thriving and sustainable career?
Jared Correia: I love this, so this is like the Back to the Future II of your book series.
Dorie Clark: Yes, but hopefully higher quality. I was a little disappointed by Back to the Future II.
Jared Correia: Yeah, Back to the Future II is kind of hot garbage. So yes, I think the bar is relatively low for you to jump here.
All right, so I think that’s great. That makes a lot of sense, and it’s true, like for a lot of lawyers, I think they get very well-known in their field and they kind of stop there, and they are not making very much money. So let’s talk about how they can do better.
The first section of this book though before you jump into that completely is about building a brand, which is something you talked about regularly for a long time. So one thing that I’ve always been interested in is, I think lawyers are fairly uniquely positioned to build a brand even in a saturated field as they are in. How do you think that they can go about doing that?
Dorie Clark: Well, I think that one area that you’re exactly right about is for many people who are employed by companies, they are very constrained as to what is okay for them to do in terms of brand building, whether it is formal corporate policies or feeling like, their boss might be threatened, if they are building a big brand.
Jared Correia: Yes.
Dorie Clark: Whereas, in the world of law, certainly of course if you’re self-employed, but even if you’re working at a firm that is a place where you are wanted and encouraged to build a brand. I think there’s a really keen understanding that when you get known, that’s how you get clients. It is a good thing when potential people in the community have heard of you and know who you are and what you stand for.
Everybody says, oh, well, he’s the go-to guy for XYZ, that’s the position you want to be in. And so, the ways to build a brand, I actually have created a framework for this, which I spent a lot of time working on which I call the Recognized Expert Evaluation Toolkit, and essentially, what I’ve discovered through interviewing hundreds of top thought leaders across a spectrum of different fields, including attorneys, is that fundamentally there are three levers that drive your ability to be well-known and build a brand in the marketplace.
The first is content creation, the second is social proof, and the third is your network. And very briefly, what I mean by those things, content creation is basically the idea that you might be really good but unless you are sharing your ideas publicly, it’s very hard for people that have not worked with you directly, to understand that you’re very good.
So whether that’s pieces in your local legal journal, whether that is op-eds, whether that is creating videos for your firm, whatever it is, that’s a really important way, and this podcast, for instance, is a great way of building brand.
Jared Correia: Oh yes.
Dorie Clark: Social proof is about your credibility in the marketplace. What are the brands that you are associated with? It could be where you went to law school, it could be where you went to undergrad, it could be a firm that you worked at in the past, it could be clients you have worked with, it could be having a role with your local bar association, any of those things give you important credibility, and then finally, your network because you need the people around you to know who you are and to be advocates for you.
And I will just mention briefly, that if folks are interested in actually assessing themselves and figuring out where they are on the spectrum, where they are strong and where they are weaker, I have a free tool, this toolkit, they can get it for free on my website, just go to HYPERLINK “http://www.dorieclark.com/toolkit” dorieclark.com/toolkit and you can download it for free and actually score and assess yourself, so you can figure out your own action plan.
Jared Correia: Awesome. So check that out at HYPERLINK “http://www.dorieclark.com/toolkit” dorieclark.com. So one thing that lawyers have traditionally done well, I think, almost without even trying, is to become trusted sources for their clients, and you talk about that a little bit in your book. Lawyers are great like having clients come to them for all their needs, and I think that’s one of the reasons that law firms become successful.
So given that it’s 2017, given that everybody’s on the Internet in some fashion advertising themselves, how can attorneys amplify their reach as trusted sources in 2017 that they couldn’t have done in like 1980?
Dorie Clark: Yeah, you’re exactly right. I mean in the past, we lived in a gatekeeper economy. If the editor of the local legal journal or local business journal or what have you didn’t like you or for some reason, didn’t want to hear from you, you were kind of in trouble because there was a limited number of ways that you could actually get out and spread your message.
Now, we’ve become totally decentralized and the plus side is that the gatekeepers matter a lot less. The downside of course is that there is a lot more noise and a lot more competition. So it has to be high quality, and it also oftentimes has to be differentiated, so I mean, this is which were niches for instance are really helpful because if you’re doing a podcast Above the Law and one week, you are talking about divorces and the next week, you’re talking about national politics and the Supreme Court, and the week after that you are talking about zoning issues, people are going to be like, wait a minute, this is all over the map. I don’t even know what they’re trying to accomplish.
So niching down and really getting known for a specific thing and going deep in that can be very powerful to you. Let’s not say, you have to stand that niche forever, but it’s often a very good starting place.
Jared Correia: That’s a great point. That’s why I do the only legal podcast focused on law practice management and issues surrounding 11:59Lawrence Yvonne and it has worked out pretty well.
Dorie Clark: That’s amazing. I love that.
Jared Correia: All right, now let’s show for a second, this is all the stuff you need to buy.
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Jared Correia: All right, thanks for coming back. I am still here and so is Dorie Clark, and she is talking about entrepreneurship in the modern world.
So when you read online, it’s very easy to find articles about the topic of having the courage to become an entrepreneur and to go out and to start your own business.
In your new book, you framed it in a different way, you talk about the courage to monetize. So why does that take courage?
Dorie Clark: Well, I think most people have probably experienced this, I mean, certainly if you started out at a larger firm, you didn’t have to face this, you were kind of shielded because the firm had rates and you weren’t handling the billing, you were just charged out at whatever they charge people out at and you could kind of go on your merry way.
Jared Correia: Yeah.
Dorie Clark: But the minute you opened your own practice, it’s oh my God, what do I ask for, where do I position myself? And it becomes a really tricky question of course, because on one hand, you might say, well, I can undercut the big firms because I don’t have all the overhead and so I can be the bargain choice and that will be great.
But then you realize, oh no, I don’t want to be so much the bargain choice that I have these crappy bottom dweller clients, that’s no good either. So you are kind of ping-ponging between extremes, and it can become really challenging, and honestly, it touches I think on some really foundational psychological issues for a lot of us about how do we value ourselves, how do we — how can we come to feel comfortable, articulating what our value is when — let’s face it early on, we may not totally be sure, we may be a little unclear about the value we are bringing, and so to appear certain to others is a bit of a challenge.
So there really is a level of courage associated with getting comfortable asking for money and asking for what you’re worth.
Jared Correia: Yeah, and I think that’s particularly true of the lawyers. I mean a lot of lawyers, a lot of doctors suffer from impostor syndrome generally, and it just gets ramped up when you start your own company.
Lawyers in particular however, those folks like to stay in their own lanes a little bit, or traditionally have done so. They want to do one thing, they want to maybe market themselves a little bit, but mostly sit behind a desk and practice the type of law of their choosing.
So in what ways can lawyers or should lawyers I suppose be thinking about accessing the gig economy, which is something we haven’t talked about yet in this show?
Dorie Clark: Yeah, so I think that the connotation in many ways of the gig economy is like, oh, it’s your dad driving an Uber, or it’s your little cousin in college being a task rabbit, and assembling IKEA furniture for people, and certainly that is a part of the gig economy and it can be a useful part for people that are looking to make some extra money on the side.
But, really what my focus is, in entrepreneurial view is, you can call it the gig economy writ large. What I am talking about is not a way to make an extra 25 bucks on the weekend, what I’m talking about is something that I think would be of hopefully far more interest to your listeners, which is ways to create new six-figure income streams.
I am talking about how does this play out for well-educated, talented professionals, how can we leverage these forces to benefit our own careers.
And so I think that in many ways it gets pigeonholed as this make a little extra spending money, when actually it can be really transformative for our businesses. And so that could involve everything from creating an online course to doing university teaching, to writing a book, maybe it’s creating an online membership community, maybe it’s holding mastermind retreats. There is a wealth of possibilities.
Jared Correia: Yeah, I know I think that’s a better way for attorneys to look at. I still think most, even professionals look at the gig economy as exactly what you said, making extra 25 bucks here or there, driving an Uber for a couple hours, but thinking about it in that way, there is definitely money to be made.
So do you find that even under that definition with most professionals are people looking for side hustles like solely because the economy is kind of in poor shape right now or is it partly also a function of the modern tendency that people have to want to multitask and stay busy and to be always on?
Dorie Clark: Well, I think it certainly can be both of those things, but I would argue it may even be more. One is that it is a way that Renaissance people can stay growing. I think that there’s a lot of people out there that get a little bored just doing one thing.
Jared Correia: Yeah.
Dorie Clark: And there is something pretty exciting where you say it’s not — it’s not I need to be changing careers all the time, it’s that I can do multiple things that fulfill different needs for myself. And so, I think that there is probably a lot of people who are attorneys let’s say and they would really like to do some teaching, and that can be a cool outlet. It’s a way to do public speaking, it’s a way to connect with people, it’s a way to give back, it’s a way to earn extra money. That’s kind of cool. It’s a way of trying on other selves and gaining prestige, professional reputation and money at the same time as you do it.
Jared Correia: That’s a great point. A lot of attorneys are frustrated, polyglots like, they are like everybody in Piano Man basically. Every lawyer wants to do something else.
Dorie Clark: Well, I mean, a lot of lawyers, let’s be honest, they are the Humanities majors, right?
Jared Correia: Yes, absolutely.
Dorie Clark: They are the Social Science majors and they are the people who are like — they may love being a lawyer, but they are like, hey, I am not reading Milton so much anymore, and it’s kind of a way to tap into some of the things that you might have worried that you left behind forever.
Jared Correia: Yeah, but what you are talking about is not just hacking around, doing in the systematic way and making some real money off of it, which I think is great direction for people to have.
Dorie Clark: Yeah, absolutely, and I want to be the first to say too. These strategies that I am talking about, it’s not just theory, one of the things that I did very deliberately in writing this book was I sought to make myself the first guinea pig. And so, I tried out many of the strategies in the book. I decided that I would essentially use this as my instruction manual, and so I spent 2016 writing the book — doing the research, writing the book, and I also spent that time implementing it.
And so using the strategies that I learned through these interviews, speaking to 50 really successful high 6, 7, 8-figure entrepreneurs, I implemented that largely through an online course, which is one of my big areas of activity. I also experimented a little bit more with live masterminds.
So I did that and I was able to add an additional $193,000 to my bottom-line in 2016 year-over-year, compared to 2015.
Jared Correia: It’s a pretty good year as a guinea pig, nothing wrong with that.
Dorie Clark: That’s right. That’s right, if they used to try this stuff out.
Jared Correia: All right. So now everybody is really listening. We should have led with that.
But this is great, and what we are going to dive into next is some of the specific ways that Dorie suggest folks get out there and earn some real money in the gig economy, the professional gig economy.
Now while I try to find my other pants, listen to some more words from our sponsors.
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All right, thanks for coming back. How was your hummus sandwich? Mine was sublime. Now let’s reengage with Dorie Clark again who is talking about you, the new school entrepreneur.
All right, so this is what we segued out of from our last segment. Let’s talk about some of the specific ways that professionals can promote and monetize their expertise in much the same way that you did last year.
So you believe as you mentioned that becoming a consultant or a coach is a viable additional income stream. So what makes you feel that way A, and B, how do you think lawyers might be able to leverage that as well?
Dorie Clark: Well, I definitely believe that coaching and consulting can be viable income streams. Certainly it’s something that I have done in my business and I have seen many, many entrepreneurs do it as well. Part of the reason why I think it’s a great thing to explore honestly is that there is no startup costs.
I mean, you already have a computer I’m assuming, you already have Internet access, aside from that there is really nothing necessary, for something like doing an online course, for instance. I think that is a great way to make money, but there is an outlay of time, of money, it doesn’t have to be a lot. Some people worry like, oh, it’s going to cost me $100,000 to make it. No, no, no, no. I mean, there is people of course who will try to sell you. Oh yeah, we can help you with your online course for $100,000.
I will tell you. I filmed mine myself, and the equipment that I used I bought on Amazon for about $250, for anyone who is interested I have a complete list of it, you can get it at HYPERLINK “http://www.dorieclark.com/videotools” dorieclark.com/videotools and download a list of the exact equipment that I used for it.
So I kept it really lean, but I also did a lot of the labor myself, but something you can do at no cost is start as a consultant or coach. You don’t even have to have a following. Presumably you have some kind of a social and professional network at this point, and so your coaching could be on just about anything. It could be something related to the legal profession, like for instance, let’s say, Jared, that you are really amazing at helping people figure out the business aspects of being a lawyer.
Jared Correia: Hypothetically, yes.
Dorie Clark: Just hypothetically, you could say, you run into some colleague, at a function. They will say, oh, I am really just run down in trying to figure all this out. I mean the business part isn’t going that well. Well, guess what, you could mention, hey, lately I’ve been doing some consulting about that, and boom. You don’t have to have a website, you don’t have to have a mailing list even, although, those are good things to have, but you could land a client right there and get started, which I think is — is the most key thing.
Jared Correia: Yeah.
Dorie Clark: But the honest truth is whatever people are already coming to you for, I mean maybe it’s not a legal thing at all, maybe it’s that you are — somebody who just dresses really well, and everybody is like, wow, that’s amazing, I wish I could dress like you; well, guess what, you could start a coaching business where you — whatever for $500, or $1000 you could go to somebody’s house and go through their closet and throw out all the bad stuff and put together outfits and then take them on a shopping trip.
It’s something would be fun for you, but extremely valuable for somebody else. These are all possibilities.
Jared Correia: I know what that’s like, people are always like, Jared, like how do you dress so well? Where do you find the array of pleat shirts in your closet? It is hot.
Dorie Clark: I was suggesting it because I thought it would be salient for you.
Jared Correia: It’s a tough lifestyle, but everyone has it across the pair. So let’s talk about another venue that is particularly appropriate for this discussion, and you have mentioned this a couple of times too. Podcasting as a marketing vehicle, I think it’s tremendous.
Dorie Clark: Yes.
Jared Correia: So can you talk a little bit about how someone would engage in a podcast?
Dorie Clark: I certainly can. So a podcast is good on a couple of levels, right? So one is that it is a terrific way to build your brand, simply you are creating content, you are getting known. So even if there’s no money involved, whatsoever, it is a pretty cool thing to do because it helps raise your profile.
Another aspect of podcasting honestly is that it helps your network. So if you have a show that does interviews, this is a really good opportunity and excuse even to interview all the people that you want to connect with and talk with, so that’s a plus.
But then above and beyond that, you get the possibility that once you have enough of a following, this is not something that’s going to happen your first week, but overtime, as you build up enough of a following, you are going to potentially have enough listeners that you might attract the attention of sponsors. And this is especially true if you have a niche, a niche focus and a niche audience because it may actually be hard for people to reach certain groups.
Jared Correia: Yeah.
Dorie Clark: And if you have clustered them together and they are a desirable group, whatever it is, maybe it’s your podcast for personal injury attorneys, maybe it’s your podcast for whatever, if there is a group that would like to reach your audience, maybe it’s somebody who sells services to that group, there is a lot of possibilities. You could start reaching out to them and say, hey, I’m getting — I have 10,000 listeners here, would you be interested in doing a sponsorship and you may be able to get a pretty decent rate per episode for doing advertisement, pre-roles or whatever.
Jared Correia: I am still waiting for my Rolo sponsorship. I can now hope for that every Halloween. Last question I want to ask you and this has been a great discussion. You talked a little bit about online courses, recording those, selling those and kind of the latent value of those things as moneymaking endeavors, could you explain a little bit more about how you would do that and about how an attorney could do that? And I know you referenced that link on your website as well, and if you want to bring that, I think that would be helpful too.
Dorie Clark: Yeah, yeah absolutely. So online course is something that certainly we have all seen grow dramatically over the years, and it’s no surprise why in-person education is really expensive, it’s kind of inconvenient for busy people to have to convene in a certain place at a certain time, and so there has been a real push to asynchronous learning, and that’s even true for traditional programs.
I mean, I teach for the Fuqua School of Business at Duke and some of the — not all, of course, but some of the programs that I have done have very explicitly had a hybrid model where part of what you do is in class but part of it is a webinar session, that takes place overtime. So everybody is turning to this. This is not a fringe thing anymore.
And so, if you have specialized knowledge in some capacity that is likely that people might be willing to pay for it, and there is a lot of ways to structure it. I am less familiar with this, you probably know more about this than I do, Jared, although, I know that there is some situations where you can get an online course set up for professional development certification credits.
Jared Correia: Yeah.
Dorie Clark: So that’s one possibility.
Jared Correia: That’s a good angle for lawyers too, yeah.
Dorie Clark: Yeah, so I think for people in the professions like law, that’s something you think about. But in my case, it really is about finding the balance of something that you know how to do that is a little less common, something that you offer that’s special, and what people around you are interested in.
And so, I will give an example. One of the online courses that I have created is something called the Rapid Content Creation Masterclass, and I’ve done a number of online courses and experimented in different ways, this is when it’s actually for me been surprisingly popular because they are really, I’ve discovered, isn’t anything like it. And the best place to start is what are the questions that people ask you all the time, what are the things where they’re just constantly like, how you do that, oh that’s so impressive, break that down for me.
When you keep hearing that you start to realize, oh, there is some interest here, there is some traction here, people — for a lot of us, we might feel like your skills that we have are just like, oh, everybody can do that. But the truth is, it’s not really and sometimes, what we can offer is considered special.
So for the Rapid Content Creation Masterclass, I used to be a journalist and so as a result, I have learned some tricks to be able to create content, like blog posts or articles, really fast. And they’re essentially kind of life hacks that a lot of journalists use and probably a lot of journalists would be like, oh, but does everyone use it? And the truth is no. I heard from so many of my coaching students that they’d be doing blog posts and it would take them like six hours or something terrible.
And when you would say to them, oh well, it’s important to blog, they’d be like, oh my God, that’s so horrifying, and you’d wonder, why? Well, of course if something took you six hours every time you do it, you’d find it pretty depressing too.
Jared Correia: Yes.
Dorie Clark: And so, I created this course to help people write good quality content faster, and it seems like a lot of people are pretty interested in that. And so, I think for all of us, we can ask ourselves what are the things that people are asking us about that they seemed really curious about, and then, is it something that we can create a course to transmit?
The Rapid Content Creation Masterclass, it’s not long, I actually ran at the very first time as a three-hour live webinar and then I packaged that as a recording, which people subsequently can download. If folks are interested in checking it out, it’s at HYPERLINK “http://www.dorieclark.com/courses” dorieclark.com/courses.
Jared Correia: But it couldn’t be long, right? The Rapid Content Creation course has to be short, right?
Dorie Clark: That’s right, that’s right. But there’s a lot of different ways you can do it, and even now, I will just get a nice surprise randomly, at random intervals, multiple times a week, it’s a $200 class and I will just get a notification, oh, somebody bought it, just off my website. And so, if you create something that your audience is interested in, that can become a really great evergreen asset for you.
Jared Correia: Absolutely. All right, these are some great points. Unfortunately, that’s going to do it for this episode of The Legal Toolkit. I should say the award-winning Legal Toolkit podcast, just award an ABA Web 100, I want to throw that in there. And not only that, but this was Dorie Clark’s record-breaking third appearance on the podcast.
So as you know, I’ll be back for future shows with further insights into my soul, the soul of America as well as the legal market. But if you’re feeling nostalgic for my dulcet tones, you can hear them anytime you want, by checking out our entire show [email protected]
So thanks again to Dorie Clark, who is brilliant and good at everything she does for appearing on today’s show.
Dorie, can you tell folks a little bit more about where to find information surrounding you and your efforts?
Dorie Clark: Absolutely, Jared. Thank you. So the best place, kind of a central repository for everything, including more than 500 free articles that I have done for places like Forbes and the Harvard Business Review is my website HYPERLINK “http://www.dorieclark.com” dorieclark.com, and I’ll also just mention, for folks who are particularly interested in diversifying their income streams, there is a resource that I created, the Entrepreneurial You self-assessment that actually walks you through how to do that, and you can get that for free at HYPERLINK “http://www.dorieclark.com/entrepreneur” dorieclark.com/entrepreneur.
Jared Correia: And remember, the Entrepreneurial You book is out now as well. So thanks again Dorie, much appreciated.
Dorie Clark: Hey thanks a lot, Jared. Take care.
Jared Correia: And thanks all of you out there for listening. And remember, if the Dapper Dan Pomade is unavailable, do not settle for FOP.
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