#549: A Journey into Video Marketing, with Temi Siyanbade

Episode Notes

Transcript

Stephanie Everett (00:12): 

Hi, I’m Stephanie. 

  

Zack Glaser (00:13): 

And I’m Zack. And this is episode 549 of the Lawyerist Podcast, part of the Legal Talk Network. Today, Stephanie talks with Temi Siyanbade about production and video content setups. 

  

Stephanie Everett (00:25): 

Today’s show is brought to you by our friends at NetDocuments, so in just a few minutes you’ll hear Zack’s conversation with them. 

  

Zack Glaser (00:33): 

So Stephanie, the last, I don’t know, a little while we’ve been talking about alternative fee structures, and I say the last little while because you’ve, you’ve been on a kick to kill the billable hour for 

  

Stephanie Everett (00:47): 

At least eight years. 

  

Zack Glaser (00:48): 

Yeah. But we’ve had some content recently on podcast, on our YouTube channel, things like that, about this alternative fees webinar that’s coming up on March 12th. What’s going on with that? 

  

Stephanie Everett (01:05): 

Yeah, we’re going to dig in and just help people, maybe you’ve been thinking about it, maybe you have some questions you want to understand how to get started. So come on in and join us on this webinar. It’s going to, I’ll try to make it as interactive as possible, so bring your questions, bring your ideas. I think it’s more fun than just listening to me talk for an hour. 

  

Zack Glaser (01:26): 

Well, okay, so one thing I’ll say, whenever we do some sort of alternative fees thing, even inside of lawyer slab, which I think a Labster as being pretty advanced or at least willing to walk down the path with us, we get pushback where people say, that’s great, Stephanie, but it won’t work in my practice. But is that right? I mean, I just kind of think that somebody’s probably sitting out there thinking, that’s a nice webinar, but it’s not going to work for me. 

  

Stephanie Everett (01:57): 

I mean, I love that challenge and I have from the stage been like, throw it at me and let’s figure it out. So tell me your practice and let me see, because there probably is a way, and the other thing I would remind people is it doesn’t have to be all or nothing. You don’t have to just go dive in the deep end. There’s probably some part of your practice that we could use an alternative fee structure for to get you started and get you experimenting with it. And I know a lot of lawyers, like you mentioned in our lab program, they’ve started building out a source of recurring revenue. So maybe, 

  

(02:32): 

Right? What we’re going for is maybe you’re still doing billable hour for this amount of work, but down here we got this little recurring revenue thing and it starts clicking. And by the way, it’s fun as a business owner when you suddenly see money getting deposited into your accounts and it wasn’t the result of a sales call or so of that this person’s paid up to work with you for certain services each month. And so that is super nice as a business owner and you see that revenue start coming in. And so maybe the goal, I mean maybe eventually that then replaces your billable hour. But just to start, could you supple, what would you do if you had an extra $5,000 a month from something that you built one time? 

  

Zack Glaser (03:18): 

Yeah. 

  

Stephanie Everett (03:18): 

What would that look like for your life? I feel like I know what I’d do 

  

Zack Glaser (03:25): 

Well, okay, so yeah, we use the term alternative fees and that encompasses a couple of things there because what, you’re not just talking about flat fees, we’re talking about subscription based models. We’re talking about selling productization of your legal services. I remember when I was kind of shifting from practicing law to doing legal tech stuff. I went through maybe creating generic leases online, being able to have clients of mine make leases and things like that. And that’s something that is just a productization of your legal services. 

  

Stephanie Everett (04:09): 

There’s all kinds of ways to think about it. Value-based billing. So look, we’re going to cover ’em all. We’ll break it down, we’ll get clear on some definitions. Then we’ll talk about how does this actually work and what are some steps you can take to get started, right? Because I think that’s the hardest part. And I’m sure we’ll also talk about overcoming objections and we’ll cover as much as humanly possible in an hour. I tend to talk fast, as you guys can tell, and I get on these rants and I start going, so I’m sure that it will be worth it for you to show up. I think that you’ll walk away with some good insight. I know you will, I promise. 

  

Zack Glaser (04:52): 

Yeah. Well, so that’s March 12th, right? 

  

Stephanie Everett (04:56): 

So not too late to sign up head to our website. 

  

Zack Glaser (05:01): 

Well, we’ll have a link in the show notes and you’ll be able to find in the website, we’ll definitely have a link in the show notes for you to sign up and you can probably find it through our socials and things like that. But if you can’t always, you can email us at email@lawyerist.com. So now here is our conversation with a sponsored guest, and then we’ll head into Stephanie’s conversation with Tammy. But before that, and while you’re trying to figure out which coffee option has more caffeine in it, head on over to Apple Podcasts and leave us a review. 

  

(05:32): 

Hey y’all, Zack, the legal tech advisor here at lawyerist, and today I’ve got Patrick Thomas with me from NetDocuments, and we are talking, as you can imagine, document management systems. Patrick, thanks for being with me today. 

  

Patrick Thomas (05:44): 

Thank you very much for having me, Zack. 

  

Zack Glaser (05:45): 

So Patrick, NetDocuments is a pretty heavy hitter for small law firms, but we can’t even for small and medium sized law firms, we just cast aside this concept of organizing our documents and organizing our systems in disorganize is a problem for everybody. 

  

Patrick Thomas (06:08): 

Absolutely. When you have so many documents and you’re having them stored in so many different ways, the cost of business of not even knowing where your things are and need to be relegated, you need to get that money. 

  

Zack Glaser (06:20): 

And I mean, that’s one of the first things that we kind of think of when we’re sitting down going, okay, I’m starting my law firm. How am I going to deal with these products or with these files and everything. So what types of things are we looking at as small, medium-sized businesses or even large businesses to help us get all of this stuff organized and get our client files in one place? 

  

Patrick Thomas (06:43): 

Well, I think it comes kind of in two stages. The first stage is right now you need to, as you’re getting data in, you’re going to properly tag it with metadata. You’re going to be able to organize it that way, where you’re going to know, these are my pleadings, these are depositions, these are whatever type of organizational law firm I need. But then the second kind of piece of that is being able have really amazing search with NetDocuments, you’re going to be able to have so many different methods to search. You’ll be able to be, I know I edited this six months ago and it’s only going to break down the stuff you did for that client matter six months ago. Or I know I used a phrase in this particular way, or I was against a certain judge. Even those minute little search terms, I got to get you those documents instantly without you having to spend hours and hours of those types of things. 

  

Zack Glaser (07:28): 

Yeah, because kind of beyond the concept of just taking our file cabinets and putting them somewhere digitally because we’re these documents, we’re putting a lot of metadata in these documents, like you’re saying, NetDocs is putting a lot of metadata and frankly, using artificial intelligence to put metadata into these things and making it to where we can find our documents so much easier, but it may be beneficial to use something that is specific to legal as well here. Right, 

  

Patrick Thomas (07:59): 

Absolutely. On your point of some of the things that we’re changing, what’s going to be coming out this year is we’re going to give the option to have, right now we have a very liturgical search where if you know exactly what you’re searching for, you can find it. We’re going to be using that law firm experience to actually make a search where you can ask it a question and it’ll be able to interpret it to find that in your documents. 

  

Zack Glaser (08:22): 

So kind of stepping away from that Boolean sort of searching for case law to where we were starting to search for case law through natural language, moving to something that’s a little more searching from a natural standpoint, even against our own documents and against our own client files. 

  

Patrick Thomas (08:38): 

Exactly. One of our big pushes with intelligent DMS is that we’re going to be able to have the AI tools magnify the data from your own documents to make basically the tool for you. A lot of AI tools out there, or they have their own concepts, they have their own breakdowns, but if you are running a law firm, you have your experience, we want to get your experience pulled out and being able to get that data, and that’s what our new semantic search is going to be able to let us do. 

  

Zack Glaser (09:05): 

And that’s kind of the difference between going with something that is just built to hold files and something that’s purpose built for lawyers. Absolutely. So the other thing that I think has become a new thing for attorneys, and I hope it’s not too new, is this idea of being able to collaborate on files together to say all of our files are in one place instead of taking a copy, dealing with it locally and then uploading it again, we’re dealing with one file and we’re collaborating it in one place. And that’s something that NetDocuments does pretty well, right? 

  

Patrick Thomas (09:42): 

Absolutely. We originally, were very much in that focus concept of having version control. Everyone saves their version and we all kind of bring it together. Currently right now we have online collaborative tools where both people can be working at the same time. And we’re also expecting by end of year to actually be able to have it where you don’t need to be using Office 365 online. You actually will able to do this through your desktop experience and all your desktop tools. You’re used to being able to have collaborative workspaces with, 

  

Zack Glaser (10:10): 

I don’t know if I’m allowed to say this in one of these, but holy shit. Because one of the things that I think really gets people with the online collaboration is that you have to use online Office 365 instead of being able to use your local system. And I know for us Baron at our office is a huge proponent of how much more one can do on that local app as opposed to Office 365. Now I’ll fight him for it because I like Office 365, but you can do so much more there. So having that integration into that local app and being able to share and collaborate is huge. Patrick, 

  

Patrick Thomas (10:52): 

Yeah, we are just starting the demo of that experience to some of our partners where we have it working, but we want to get it all perfect before it goes out to our 

  

Zack Glaser (11:01): 

Yeah, yeah, I understand. Okay, so before we close on time, what are some immediate wins that small firms could kind of grab out of our conversation here? 

  

Patrick Thomas (11:11): 

I would say the two big immediate wins is all that time that you are getting hunting for the right document can now instantly be spent in client work or even giving your legal team that bandwidth that’s necessary. And then the kind of second piece of that, which we didn’t really get into a lot of detail, we have the tools that those search things can actually create even new documents for you. You need to create summaries that you need to send off to your clients that would already be taking you hours of work that you would be handing off to an assistant because it might not be billable. You now can be able to just do that with an automation through our search tools and be able to get that out. 

  

Zack Glaser (11:48): 

So automating some of this knowledge transfer from us to our clients would be, that’d be a huge win. Absolutely. 

  

Patrick Thomas (11:57): 

I think the key phrase that we’re really trying to have is that the intelligent DMS is making your documents into automation. It isn’t going to get someone else’s experience, someone else’s concept. It’s taking what your law firm has created and expanding that. 

  

Zack Glaser (12:11): 

Awesome. Awesome. Well, if people want to check out net documents and all that is there, because it’s net documents, indie Max and all those things in the automations, they can go to netdocuments.com/products/document hy management or a little bit easier net documents.com/demo and they can check it out. 

  

Patrick Thomas (12:35): 

Thank you very, very much for this time. I’m Zack 

  

Zack Glaser (12:37): 

Patrick, thanks for being with me. I appreciate it. 

  

Temi Siyanbade (12:39): 

Hi, I’m Temi Siyanbade, and I am the founder of TOS Legal, a Houston boutique law firm that serves business owners, helping them with protecting their assets and establishing their legacy. And I am so glad to talk about getting into video to leverage your brand as a legal professional. 

  

Stephanie Everett (12:58): 

Hello, welcome to the show. And you know what you didn’t say in that intro, you also just published your first book. Is it your first book? 

  

Temi Siyanbade (13:06): 

This is my first official book. I had an ebook, but this is real. 

  

Stephanie Everett (13:13): 

Yes, a real book. So let’s make sure we just go upfront, what’s the book, where is it and how do we find it? 

  

Temi Siyanbade (13:20): 

Sure. The book is called Show Don’t Tell, and it’s all about how lawyers can use video to stand out, create more value and revolutionize their firm. So excited about this. And it’s available on Amazon. It’s also available via the ABAs website. And I’m just really excited to get this out into the hands of legal professionals and even non-legal professionals, honestly, to get them thinking about how they can use video. 

  

Stephanie Everett (13:44): 

Yeah, well share with us, how did you get started on this video journey and what led you to write the book? 

  

Temi Siyanbade (13:53): 

Oh, thank you so much. That’s a great question. So I actually started the book kind of getting into this story, and it all started about 10 years ago. I was a recently licensed attorney. I was one of those crazy people who decided to open up her firm fairly quickly after getting licensed. And nobody told me that you had to get clients funny once you had a business. Somebody forgot to let me in on that secret. But you find out very quickly, and I was in that position where I’d found out very quickly that I needed to figure out a way to connect with people in a unique way. And I am in the Houston area, there’s a lot of bigger law firms out there that have these significant legal budgets when it comes to marketing. And I knew that I couldn’t compete in that regard. 

  

(14:40): 

I was also really connected to a lot of entrepreneurial people who were leveraging video in a way that I had not seen lawyers do. And so reluctantly, at first, I really trying to be on camera. Many of us just want to be heads down into our work. And now it was kind of that way. But I started to ask, okay, how badly do I want it? Do I want to connect with people? Do I want to help people? And as I toyed with that and really battled with that tension, I realized I did want to help people. I did want to connect. And so I remember the day after my birthday, about seven or eight years ago, I did my first official live as an attorney, and you could still find it on social media. I leave it up there as a reminder that we all have to start somewhere. 

  

(15:27): 

And I started and I remember the reaction after that. It was a lot of people were excited to see something different. And I turned that into a weekly live show that I would do on Facebook that eventually evolved into YouTube lives and into YouTube videos. And now over 250,000 views later we’re here. And I’ve been able to speak all over the place and really help attorneys kind of get over that initial fare because I’ve been there and really figure out how can we connect with people in a meaningful way using video. So that’s a little bit about my journey into this. And I guess specifically with the book, I was asked to present at a legal tech show a couple of years ago and after our presentation where I was approached and I presented with somebody else with the opportunity to write this book based off of what we had shared. And I said, yes, nice. 

  

Stephanie Everett (16:24): 

And we’re glad you did. And you kind of started to talk about this just a second ago, everyone. I think a lot of people’s initial reaction really is a reluctance. I don’t want to be on camera. This is scary. And maybe, so maybe because of that we say, oh, it’s not really necessary, and how do you start to talk to lawyers about maybe that it’s not scary? And then we can also delve into the why, because I think there’s real value to being on video. 

  

Temi Siyanbade (16:54): 

And I think when we start the conversation, I tell ’em it is scary, but we do hard things. I remind legal professionals in particular and attorneys in particular that we survived law school, We survived the bar exam. We represent people in really deep, hard, difficult matters, and we show up every day in that regard. And we have the ability to be courageous. And so we have to bring that same mindset into this work. And in terms of why, I remember as part of that initial story in terms of me, the first day I went live, I remember being nervous. I was in the house and I was like, okay. I said, I’m going to do this, but I was like, I don’t want to. And I was scrolling on social media and there was a young person, it was somebody on a Facebook group, so I don’t know them, and they were sharing a kind of lewd conversation on Facebook. And I was like, okay, there are tons of people on social media not actually giving value in many ways, detracting from meaningful conversations, and they’re not scared. 

  

(18:02): 

They’re showing up boldly. And I was like, I genuinely want to help people. And I reminded myself and I connected to that reason. And all the times when I become afraid, it still happens, I still go through those moments where I’m like, okay, should I, is what I’m going to say? Does it matter? Are people going to listen to me? What’s the point? Those same things continue. They don’t go away. But I remind myself that I am helping someone, even if I help only one person, it’s worth it. And what I know to be true is that I’m usually not helping just one person. I’m able to help many people. And then I’ve also learned I’m helping myself. Some of the videos that I’ve created have been, if one person has that question, many people have that question. And I’m able to leverage work that I’ve done in the past, maybe even three, four years ago and say, Hey, you know what? 

  

(18:50): 

I might not be able to sit with you right now, but I have a resource that can add value to you today and send that to them. And when I look at that aggregate effect of all those little things, it makes it worth it for me. And I think it’s worth it for legal professionals to really get out there and connect with people because especially in today’s day and age where there’s so much misinformation, so much misinformation out there, people need folks to explain how this law thing actually works, not the way they hope it works, but the way it actually works according to the constitution, according to the rules that we have in place. And it’s up to us to be those brave individuals to kind of step out there and be counselors, like we say we’re. Yeah. 

  

Stephanie Everett (19:36): 

And so I wonder if you could share a little bit, so I mean you’re primarily using this for marketing, is that fair to say? 

  

Temi Siyanbade (19:42): 

Yeah. Yeah. And I should say my marketing perspective comes from before I became an attorney, I was a teacher. So the way in which I leverage video to market is by education 

  

Stephanie Everett (19:56): 

Primarily, right? And so same thing, we often, in the old days, I can sound old, it was blogs like, Hey, just go and share information. You’re not giving legal advice, you’re not trying to advise people, but you can educate some folks and get them to call you because they’re going to need your help in navigating the system and doing all the things. And so we can use video in the same way. We just get on and we’re sharing content in that form. Is that fair? 

  

Temi Siyanbade (20:24): 

Absolutely. Absolutely. And I would say that you can use video to supplement the blogging that you’re doing. You can use that as right now, shorts and reels and things like that on these different platforms are what people are paying attention to. We’re used to soundbites create a 32nd one minute video that leads them to the blog. In some of our areas, we’re in areas where people can be proactive or reactive and in areas that involve proactive preparation. So I do like business planning. People are estate planning attorneys. I do business succession. Many times people don’t even know that we have solutions that are available to them. So part of that education is allowing them to know that there is relief available, there is support available, there’s this resource available. And by leveraging video to just again, create answers to questions or bring about awareness about particular situations, all of those things add value and position you as an authority on various things so that people are like, huh, I remember seeing this person speak on it. I might not remember everything that they said. I might actually walk into their office and ask them questions about exactly what they recorded, but I remember that they were the person who spoke on this issue. 

  

(21:42): 

There’s value to that. 

  

Stephanie Everett (21:44): 

And talk to about the value of video in terms of these potential clients really getting to know you in a different way than maybe reading a blog post or looking at your website. 

  

Temi Siyanbade (21:57): 

Absolutely. I remember a particular instance where somebody came into my office and when we’re having those initial consultations, we want to build rapport. And the person was like, oh, I already feel like I know. I remember that video where you spoke about doing X, Y, and Z with your younger sibling. And I don’t talk about my family often, honestly, so I don’t even know how many videos they watch. And people are always like, oh, I mean, even this past week, it’s very interesting because even people who are in your network 

  

(22:27): 

Know one part of you, but those videos can open up another door. So I had somebody who was reaching out to me and I sent them a couple of videos and they were like, yeah, I went down the rabbit hole. And it was so informative, and then they were in a better position to make a business decision based off of that. So what it does is it begins this warming where people already feel comfortable with you, where they already have this trust in you because you’ve already shown yourself to be an authority on something. You’ve already said that, Hey, I actually do know how these things work. So you don’t have to spend as much time building that during the actual conversation. I would also say one of the things that I’ve noticed in my practice is sometimes because it takes time to go over certain things, sometimes during those initial conversations, those initial consultations, your time is limited and there’s so much you’re trying to achieve within those 30 minutes, 60 minutes that you have. 

  

(23:20): 

Well, if you implement video as part of that process, you can actually streamline that so that you can make sure that you’re maximizing your time during those consultations, doing what matters most, diagnosing the situation for that client and telling them the game plan going forward. There’s a lot of other stuff that’s just extra that you can record a video. I mean, it doesn’t just have to be about the substantive law. A lot of people when they’re working with attorneys, they’ve never done it before. They might not know about the actual procedures. So maybe you are a trial attorney. Has your client ever gone into a courtroom? Do they know how to dress? Do they know what to expect regarding that process? All of that can be covered in a video and can be repurposed and reshared and create again, that connection, create that familiarity and all of those other things. So 

  

Stephanie Everett (24:08): 

I definitely, I’ve 

  

Temi Siyanbade (24:09): 

Not seen it happen. 

  

Stephanie Everett (24:10): 

Yeah, no, I love that. And it is funny what you said, I got onto a call to someone today and they’re like, I feel strange saying this, but I know you were just in Nashville. You talked about it on your podcast, so how was the trip? He’s like, is that weird? I was like, no. But yeah, but people listen to the podcast and we have video as well, and then they do feel like they know you, but it’s fun. And then I have to remember, what did I say on the show? Oh yeah, sure, exactly. I’m 

  

Temi Siyanbade (24:38): 

Like, which video? But again, they feel comfortable and then it’s like, okay, we can get to the nitty gritty. And I don’t know, it just makes things easier. And I’ll say this, I like having the opportunity to add value without having to use my time over and over again In certain regards, it’s just streamline things for me, and that’s one of the biggest value adds. 

  

Stephanie Everett (25:01): 

Absolutely. Okay, so you said in one of your responses you’re like, are you going to do a short or a reel? And there’s all these kind of different videos coming out, and I don’t know if tiktoks still alive, but there’s, as soon as you say that, people kind of get fearful like, oh, do I have to dance and do I have to have graphics and pop things on the screen? Because if you told me I had to do those things, I’d probably be like, no, thank you. But what is your advice if people are like, okay, I want to try this. I’m going to dip my toe in this and really go for it. Where should they start and how do they start navigating all the different options? 

  

Temi Siyanbade (25:37): 

Oh, I love that. I think that they should start, so I’m personally biased, kind of in favor of YouTube generally. If we’re talking platforms, I think that YouTube has an audience that is looking for something. So if they stumble upon your content on YouTube, they’ve probably saw out something pertaining to that for the most part. Whereas on some of your other platforms, it’s a little bit more passive. It’s on a timeline that they’ve just put out so that audience member might not be looking at it. So I usually prepare content for YouTube 

  

(26:08): 

In particular because I know it’s going to live there a little in a different way. Now the content I prepare on YouTube, I can repurpose and place on the other platforms and depending on where your audience is, and I would say my audience, again, we are proactive planning business people. They’ll be on a YouTube, maybe more than a TikTok. So that is also a factor to consider is where is your target audience? Where are they getting their information? What are their demographics? So if you find that your audience is in a particular platform more than the other one, prioritize that one and then learn kind of the secrets of that platform. So TikTok, they want something short, engaging, quick. There are certain ways to do leads and hooks that don’t involve you dancing, but they’re ways I feel you, I think the most people have. 

  

(26:57): 

I think I have one video and it was the recent video where I was showing me opening up the box for my book where I’m jumping up and down. But beyond that, all my videos are talking head videos. I was like, I like to dance, but I’m not trying to dance on YouTube. That’s not what I’m trying to do right now. And I’ve still been able to gain success. And so I think that it’s, again, figuring out where your people are, understanding the patterns of the different platforms, and I would say at the heart of it, people are looking for value. One of my mentors slash besties big sisters, she teaches a concept that I share everywhere that I go, and her concept is make it your number one desire to help God’s people make it your focus to help people. So when it comes to me preparing my content for whatever platform, I’m asking myself, how is this going to help them the most? 

  

(27:47): 

It’s not about me, it’s about helping them. And so most of the time people want something that’s going to deliver value quickly, something that’s going to answer a question. And if I can pose that to them, if I can meet people where they are, maybe they’re dealing with a particular fear and I’m like, I know this is the fear, let me address it head on. That’s the way I prepare the content, and if I do it that way, it’s going to perform on the different platforms. So that’s kind of my mindset when it comes to that. But again, YouTube tends to be my number one because of the way that it functions. I’ll say this also, I think of YouTube as more of a search engine than many of the other platforms. It’s owned by Google. So I have a couple of my videos have been able to show up on Google’s firsts page has a video, which is awesome because of that nice connection. And so that’s why I usually lean towards YouTube and repurpose for the other platforms because I think you get a little bit more bang for your book on this platform. 

  

Stephanie Everett (28:45): 

Absolutely. That makes sense. How much of an investment do people need to make in terms of equipment? 

  

Temi Siyanbade (28:52): 

Great question. I really advise people to start with what they have. My first videos live streaming, were recorded on my phone and we all have these really powerful devices. Our phones have excellent quality and you can get lots of tools to, if you want to upgrade them a little bit, you can, but you can legit start with your phone and create content that connects with people and that looks great. And as you desire, you can upgrade that, but it doesn’t have to be super complicated. Again, the biggest thing is value. Of course, you don’t want your image to look grainy like it was made in 1996, 

  

(29:30): 

But if you’re using your cell phones, they’re not going to, there are little things that you can find online. If you want a ring light that attaches to your phone, you can find those. If you want audio that’s improved, there are different types of audio devices that you can include. I’ll give you an example of one. This is probably a little bit pricier, but I like this particular brand. There’s a brand called D-G-I-D-I and they have something called the Mike Minis. I’m actually going to show you, I like show and tell, if you don’t mind. I have it right next to me. I just invested in it and I love it. But this works with your fancy cameras. So if you have a mirrorless DSLR, you can do that. If you want to use it with your web camera, you can do that as well, plugging it into your computer, but it also connects with your phone. And so this is the little case for it, and it is a tiny little, this is the little transmitter. You plug it into your phone and then here is your little wireless mouse microphone, and you can put this on with a magnet onto your shirt and walk around and stuff. You can have your phone on a tripod and it makes your audio a lot better so that people perceive the quality of your video as being higher quality. The audio can make a difference in how people perceive what you’ve recorded. So just a little tidbit. 

  

Stephanie Everett (30:49): 

I love that advice. I tell people just invest in one of those in the microphones. They’re so easy. You can get ’em on Amazon, you can get ’em everywhere. And somebody once told me, so I just assumed this is true because they seemed like they knew what they were talking about, but they said that today’s iPhones are more powerful than the TV station’s cameras in the eighties. What we grew up watching that today we hold something that’s better than those big clunky things that they used to spend a lot of money on. 

  

Temi Siyanbade (31:20): 

I believe it. 

  

Stephanie Everett (31:20): 

Yeah. And so I think that’s right. I try to remind people, your phone’s pretty awesome, so just use that and just get a little microphone and you’re good to go. 

  

Temi Siyanbade (31:31): 

Honestly, it doesn’t have to be a big setup. Again, the value that you add for people, and then the funny, all these different apps, they are also, if you’re talking about if you wanted to do extra, you wanted to add to song, you wanted to add something in the background, all your social media apps kind of have these capabilities to enhance whatever you record. So you don’t need, again, all this extra, you can start with what’s in your pocket right now. 

  

Stephanie Everett (31:57): 

And sometimes I don’t know about you, but sometimes when it’s too produced, I don’t think people engage with it as much. There is something about people are used to seeing those homegrown videos now, and so there’s kind of, I think there’s a bit of an authenticity when you just show up with your phone and not have this big production. 

  

Temi Siyanbade (32:16): 

Absolutely. Absolutely not. I’m a gadget geek. That’s 

  

Stephanie Everett (32:22): 

Okay. I know we’re always comparing gadgets when we see each other. I’m like, oh, what you got in your bag? Let’s sweet. 

  

Temi Siyanbade (32:28): 

Exactly. Exactly. But there is something again to just, Hey, I’m live and I’m here and I’m connecting with you. I see a ton of people who I could tell, I’m like, they don’t have the fancy camera, but they’re connecting with people. They’re keeping it real. I would say what’s more valuable is not speaking in legalese. How are you speaking to the people? Let’s talk about the content because that’s where you start to make that difference. So it’s not just about being on video, it’s about are you actually speaking the way people understand? Are you speaking to the problems people have when someone gets on video and they’re speaking in a way where the people are like, oh yeah, that was exactly what I was scared of. And it wasn’t described in some technical legal term, but it was described in their everyday language. They’re going to listen because they’re like, oh, this is actually relevant to me. 

  

(33:14): 

Whereas if we’re speaking in the language that we speak at with our colleagues in court, then there’s going to be a disconnect and it’s going to go over their heads and eyes are going to give you glazed and we’re going to pass through. But if they can sit down and say, you helped me understand this. You engaged me from the beginning, you didn’t waste my time. I could tell you meant to help me. They don’t care if you’re using your phone or if you’re using a fancy camera. They’re just like, you are here to help me. 

  

Stephanie Everett (33:42): 

Yes. That’s amazing. If people get started on video, are there some metrics that you recommend that they can use in the beginning to see if it’s a success? Obviously you had some pretty impressive numbers for us and you’ve been doing it for a while. I don’t want people to think like, oh, if your first video doesn’t go viral, you should quit. Tell us though, what’s reasonable and what should we be tracking? Is it views? 

  

Temi Siyanbade (34:08): 

Oh, I love that question. And so I will say this, all your videos, I don’t even have, I don’t think any of my videos have gone viral. I’ve had some videos that have been a consistent question, so they’ve outperformed. But even today, if I posted a video, I think I posted a video last week and I think we’re under a hundred views, I’m okay with that now. I want to see the traction over time. That gives me feedback as to, okay, is this meeting a question that people currently have? Is this connecting with them in terms of what current felt needs are? And so I’m using it to gain data, but I will also say that there’s value in even the videos that don’t have a tons of view. I think what’s more important to track is your consistency 

  

(34:54): 

In the sense that tracking your consistency allows you to say, okay, have I even given it enough time? And it’s the consistency of people seeing you out there that makes the difference. Over time, you’ll see some of those other metrics change. But one of the things I think we should be realistic about is that it’s not enough to just put the video out there sometimes. Sometimes you want to put the video in the spaces where people can get to see it. So I might record a video and release it on YouTube, but I’ll reshare that video on LinkedIn, the link to it. I might reshare that video on Facebook because I want people to be aware that that information is out there. I know, let me be real. I remember when I first started and I would do my lives and I see that there would be a handful of people who would join, but they wouldn’t really stay for a long time. 

  

(35:41): 

They joined for a minute, maybe two minutes, maybe say hi, and then disappear. And I used to be really discouraged and I was like, what’s the point? Nobody’s even until I realized that what made the difference, which people kept on seeing me speak on this issue, it was the fact that they were like, Tammy, you are the person who keeps on speaking on business law. So then I remember having multiple people come into my office, sit down with me and say, I was looking for a business lawyer and your name came up three times. That’s happened multiple times. And it’s not because people are studying my videos and watching them from start to finish, although that occasionally does happen, but it’s really because again, I’m choosing to show up consistently. I would even say even when I look at the success that I’ve had and I’ve struggled, let’s be 100, it is hard to be consistent. I’ve struggled sometimes to be consistent, but that first year of consistency made a huge difference and I’m still reaping the benefits of that. So personally, one of my goals this year is to get back on that with at least one video a week, just to be consistent, just to see that traction, just to see that growth because I know what it’s done for me in terms of people just being aware that I exist, right? 

  

Stephanie Everett (36:54): 

Yes, it, it’s a good reminder. And look, we all have those days. Even today before we got on to record this, I was like, my hair, I’m kind of having a bad hair day. I dunno if I want to do, should I call and reschedule? And I was like, no, you just got to push through. And some days you look amazing. And some days you guys see me like this. I dunno what’s 

  

Temi Siyanbade (37:17): 

Happening. I remember one day, I remember one of those days where I was like, and for me, I batch create oftentimes the videos that I do, so I’ll create a whole set. And I remember just being like, you batch, you look. And then after the playback you’re like, I don’t like any of these videos. And I was like, do I rerecord all of them? I’m like, I don’t have time. And I just put ’em out there. And of course my mom, I’m sweet woman, but she was like, yeah, I saw that video and you were wearing this type of shirt. And I was like, mom. But I was like, you know what? I’m still out there. I’m still doing the thing. And so even if you get a question or you get some pushback or you get not everybody’s showing up, I have really great comments where people are like, thank you for sharing this. But I have a couple of other comments you might look at on the video where people are like, oh, what’s she saying? Or saying, whatever. And it’s like, guess what? For the people who I’m adding value to, the people who I’m sent to, it’s doing what it needs to do. They’re not out here judging how I look. They’re not concerned with all of that. They’re concerned with the value that I’m adding to them. And that’s what I’m concerned with too. 

  

(38:26): 

I’m not here to get people’s approval. We’re not here seeking that in terms of we’ve been licensed from the bar associations, we have our degree, we know what we’re saying. We are not online lawyers. We’re real lawyers. And being confident in that and reminding ourselves that yes, we’re putting ourselves out there, yes, it’s uncomfortable. Yes, we might even get negative comments, but who am I there to serve? And the fact that I’m showing up is value in and of itself. A lot of the people who are out there who are being critical, they’re not doing the work. 

  

Stephanie Everett (39:07): 

That is just a great reminder and maybe a great place to wrap up this conversation. And let me just thank you because I think everybody will agree. You just gave us such good value. I mean, you really practiced what I know you’re teaching because this whole episode has just been filled with great reminders and tips and practices of how to get started. So thank you for that. But also, we’ll make sure to put a link to your new book in the show notes. So if people want to really dig in and get going on video and get all the great content, make sure you check out that book. Tell us the name one more time. 

  

Temi Siyanbade (39:45): 

The name of the book is Show Don’t Tell. And if you go to show don’t tell book.com, you get the link where you can purchase it there. And there’s also a couple of free resources that I’ve also created to accompany that. So if you want a little bit of a video guide in terms of, okay, what’s the behind the scenes, how to put that together, all of that is available for you. 

  

Stephanie Everett (40:07): 

Awesome. Thank you for being with me today. 

  

Temi Siyanbade (40:10): 

It’s been my pleasure. And thank you. You encouraged me on this journey. Stephanie was like, Tammy finished the book. And I was like, okay. So thank you so much for your leadership and your support. I really, really, truly do value it and I’m grateful. Thank you. 

 

 

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