Fresh Voices on Legal Tech with Caitlin McCabe

Episode Notes

Transcript

Announcer:

Web 2.0 innovation collaboration software, metadata got the world turning as fast as it can hear how technology can help legally speaking with two of the top legal technology experts, authors and lawyers, Dennis, Kennedy, and Tom Mighell. Welcome to the Kennedy Mighell report here on the Legal Talk Network

Dennis Kennedy:

And welcome to episode 374 at the Kennedy Mighell Report. I’m Dennis Kennedy in Ann Arbor.

Announcer:

And I’m Tom Mighell in Dallas.

Dennis Kennedy:

In our last episode, we had another guest in our Fresh Voices in Legal Tech series, Amy Conroy from Mishcon Dorea LLP. Check it out, it’s a great one. In this episode, we have another very special guest in our Fresh Voices series in Fresh Voices. We want to showcase different and compelling perspectives on legal tech and much more. We have another fabulous guest, Tom, what’s all on our agenda for this episode?

Tom Mighell:

Well, Dennis, in this edition of the Kennedy Mighell report, we are thrilled to continue our fresh voices on Legal Tech interview series with Caitlin McCabe, who among other things is a project manager at Barb Global in England and a visible and insightful contributor to the legal tech world. We want our Fresh Voices series to not only introduce you to terrific leaders in the legal tech space, but also provide you with their perspective on the things you ought to be paying attention to. And as usual, we’ll finish up with our parting shots, that one tip website or observation that you can start to use the second that this podcast is over. But first up, we are so pleased to welcome Caitlin McCabe to our Fresh Voices series. Caitlin, welcome to the Kennedy Tomorrow Report.

Caitlin McCabe:

Thank you. Happy to be here.

Tom Mighell:

Before we get started, can you tell our audience a little bit more about yourself? What do you do at Barbie? What’s your role, what our audience should know about what you do?

Caitlin McCabe:

Definitely. So my background is in law. I went to university to study a law degree, absolutely intent on going through the UK training cycle and becoming a qualified solicitor, but fell into the world of legal tech in my second year of university and absolutely loved it. Worked part-time throughout my third year to stay in with the legal tech company that I was in at the time, and then moved to bar to more of the education tech and legal tech space to really try and make sure that enough students and lawyers alike are educated and aware of everything that legal tech and all other skills in the legal services have to offer.

Dennis Kennedy:

Great. Caitlin, first of all, it’s so awesome to have you as a guest on our podcast. One of our favorite parts of the Fresh Voices series has been that our guests actually recommend great new guests for us, it’s a virtuous cycle. And our last guest, Amy Conroy, put us on you. So let me start by saying sometimes I get frustrated with how difficult it still is to explain technology, both old and new and its benefits to those in the legal profession. Would you talk about your own approach to communicating with lawyers and others in the legal profession about technology and what you’ve found that works well for you?

Caitlin McCabe:

Yeah, definitely. A lot of what I’ve found works really well on the communication side is really digging deep into that listening in the beginning and trying to stay away from any guiding through questions. So asking really open-ended questions to really understand what the person in front of you’s pain points are and needs so that when you’ve got a piece of technology then in mind and part of that is being really well versed into what the legal tech space has to offer and all of the products around you can then explain that tech and that application properly to whoever you are speaking to. And I think that really helps people set aside in their minds, okay, yes, that’s going to help fix my problem. So I will put aside some time to learn that or to investigate that product and to get excited about it to help me in the future. And it’s having that dynamic ability to go that might not work for your use case, but this one definitely will.

Tom Mighell:

So we generally ask, and if you’ve listened to our podcast before, Dennis and I always are interested in talking about technology competence among lawyers. It is a thing here. It is maybe not so much of a thing elsewhere, but it is definitely something we pay attention to. And I guess your role at Barber, maybe we’re not talking so much about technology competence among lawyers, but the law students or the individuals who are coming through that system, what are you seeing as far as the current state of technology competence and then maybe beyond that, what do you think a technologically competent lawyer ought to be knowing today to satisfy that requirement?

Caitlin McCabe:

It’s actually a conversation I was just having with them. Someone in our product team today, it’s such a vast space and we were trying to pinpoint it to the US or the UK and if there was any similarities or differences in that, I think as much as I’d love to say that the younger generation coming through law school now are much more aware and an abreast of that technology in a way that they are that kind of technology generation that’s always grown up with an iPhone or an iPad or anything getting with that tech. But I do think there’s a lot of fear around that as well in is that going to replace my role? So if I adopt this piece of tech and I push that forward, is that going to replace me one day? And I think some of the lack of competence in that space is really understanding that it’s not there to replace you specifically as a person.

You have a lot more to give than some of the menial tasks that this technology can come into and help with. It’s about knowing when you’ve got that value to add and those soft skills that are never going to be replaced to come on top of that. So I think a lot of what I’m trying to do and what we are trying to do with law students and in the professional development space alike is to really get that message clear cut out there is to upskill on the technology side and on the soft skills side. So when you have that working hand in hand and you’ve got that curiosity and that dynamism that we were speaking about earlier, it’s really got a lot going for you in that competence space. And then you’re not so scared when you go into a law firm and you’ve got someone from the tech team coming, oh, please try this new product. It’s trying to get people passionate and curious enough to try it. And then it’s the implementation and the adoption side because you can have the best product in the world, but if it’s not being touched by the lawyers, it doesn’t matter.

Dennis Kennedy:

So I’m really intrigued by what you’re seeing at barbri. So here in the US there’s been a lot of discussion lately about bar exams, bar exam prep, and something that gets called the next generation bar exam here, especially in law schools, including in faculty meetings that I’ve been part of recently. So as we move into or toward a new era in bar exams in preparation for practice, what are you seeing in terms of the use of technology in bar exam prep and how is technology being used to help prepare bar exam takers for eventual practice?

Caitlin McCabe:

I’ve got to say this is one of my favorite topics. This is what really got me into the learning space and going, how can we make learning better for everybody, whether you are learning in a law faculty or you’re doing it part-time around another job. So I think AI has had a lot to do with it in the last couple of years and well even before then to make that personalized experience. So you’re doing really, really well in taught law, but not so much in contract law. So that learning management system is going to then push the contract law online in a way where a tutor could in person having that kind of virtual study buddy to keep you on track, giving that blended learning experience that we’ve all got. As much as you’d love to have someone as a tutor or a teacher in front of you all the time, some of that learning has to be self-study.

So is that virtual buddy then going to come along and keep propelling you? Is it okay, just take 10 minutes now. Is someone going to come up with the schedule for you? That’s a lot of what technology can do as well. And I think we’re really seeing that come across as I remember when I was at school, if you’d want to procrastinate on an exam, you’d come up with a pretty timetable and go, okay, I’m going to spend two hours on this and then three hours on that after I’ve spent 10 hours with my highlighters. And I think some of that really takes that thought away from you and becomes short and engaging and really grasping your attention. The learning science behind that is fascinating to me. Do we do five minute lectures? Are people learning from those? Is it, do the 30 minute lectures?

Do the 60 minute lectures need to happen? Are cartoons a better way to go? What visuals? What points in that? Can you turn around and go, Hey, are you paying attention to me if it’s like you could in person, but if you’re learning online, it’s trying to keep you going and not off making a cup of tea in the background whilst you are half listening. And I just think it’s about embracing it and using it. It’s going to be personalized for everybody. And I think that’s the exciting point where you could, as a tutor, your hope is, but if you’ve got a hundred students in front of you, you can’t offer that personalized one-to-one experience. But through the blended learning you can all through all online learning, you can get that by having that AI come in and personalize that experience from the beginning.

Tom Mighell:

I have a follow up on that because as you are saying all of that and it’s actually as someone who really never, ever wants to go back into class again or learn again or do any of that again, it gets me excited, but it makes me sad for thinking that 34 years ago when I took theBar exam, I had these big thick books, just a series of massive books that we had the whole time and then flashcards. So this is not an area that I’ve paid a lot of attention to since I took my own bar exam. Is the experience now for prep, is it a hundred percent digital or is there anything that’s analog about it these days?

Caitlin McCabe:

It’s a tough question. I mean, personally, I did the SQE to the UK version of theBar. I did it all digital. I was apprehensive about this because my university experience was covid, so that was all digital, but that was a rush to digital so it wasn’t harnessed in the same way as someone who’s carefully curated it. But I think there is always going to be an element of that blended. But whether that blended has to be you in a classroom or you then face face-to-face with a tutor who is maybe remarking something that an AI has marked, but you’ve always got that human in the loop to check it, to make sure that you’re understanding, to give you that experience of going, yes, I’m an expert, I’m here to help you. I’ve been through this with hundreds of thousands of however many students you’ve taught and learned with. And I think that’s where the excitement is, how is that blended working? Are you coming onto campus? How much of the work are you doing alongside for that prep? And it will be different for different people. Some people might be working alongside and that digital really, really works for them.

Tom Mighell:

Okay. Alright. A little bit of a pivot to collaboration. Dennis and I love to talk about collaboration here and we love to hear about how others collaborate because everybody’s a little bit different. And so tell us about what your favorite methods of collaborating are, either with your team at Barber or with others that you might work outside of barbering.

Caitlin McCabe:

I think some of this depends on the situation and what you’re trying to get done internally. I love a live document. They have their pros and their cons, making sure that you can go to it if someone’s accidentally deleted bits that you definitely needed is one of them. But any kind of system that allows us to have that. For example, on our filming, we love having comments where you can do it in real time and it’s at this minute this needs to change. That can go right back to the editor, they can do it, it’s not logging on spreadsheets and then going back and forth in email. I think that really takes out some of the misunderstanding and areas of mistakes that happen otherwise. I love to look at the new different ways of a bit like the blended classroom, but the blended meetings, it’s amazing now that we could all be in different places in the world, not even in the country. And how are we making that work for meetings when some people do come into the office, how can we make sure that the people who are remote are fairly integrated into that meeting and feel like they have that space? So whether it’s whiteboard technology when you’re on meetings or how you make meeting rooms accessible for those who are in and out of the office, I think they’re really cool pieces that will have a lot to give in the future.

Tom Mighell:

That’s really awesome. Alright, we have a lot more questions to ask, but we need to take a quick break for a word from our sponsors and then we’ll be right back with Caitlin McCabe at Barbie Global

Dennis Kennedy:

And we are back with Caitlin McCabe at Barbara Global. We found in the Fresh Voices series that we love to hear about our guests career paths. And I have a suspicion already that I really want to hear about your career path. Caitlin and our audience really likes this as well. We get good feedback on this. So would you talk about your own career paths and sort of the pivot you made in law school and what kinds of things you’ve done to get you into your current role and focus if somebody wanted to do something like you’re doing?

Caitlin McCabe:

Yeah, definitely My career path has been not what I could have expected at all. I started off thinking that I was going to be an athlete and that’s all I wanted to do and all I thought my life was going to be. And then an injury turned out to make that not the case. So at 1617, I turned and said, okay, I’m going to go and study a law degree because it’s a decent degree and thought I’d go into sports law. And I remember sitting there in my first week of university and the lecturer came up on stage and she said, 50% of you are going to use your law degree and become solicitors or barristers in the uk. The other 50%, you’ll have a great degree at the end of this, but you’ll go into a different profession. And I remember looking around and going, I’m going to be in that first 50%.

I dunno about the rest of you, but I know for me my first year was heavily hit by Covid and then in the second year I was getting a bit bored with that kind of just online learning. We were still in lockdown over here, so we weren’t allowed to go back onto campus. And I kind of fell into legal tech massively and just got an internship, worked at a startup for a while and then ended up staying for a year and a half, helping to build out the sales function and the product and learning on the customer success side of things as well. And just really fell in love with that disruptor space and knowing that just because something’s done one way, you don’t have to do it that way. And I think a lot of that for me was actually, that was the first time I’d even seen a contract. I’d done a year of contract law and the first time I’d seen one

Was when I was at this company. And it just really gave that mindset to me of are we doing this right? Is there a different way to not just do the legal tech side of things but do the learning side and how can we make that better and a better experience for everybody? So that led me to Barri and at the moment I’ve spent a lot of time with our UK and our US kind of subject matter experts trying to pull all of that content in together and get that in a digitalized form that is as best to help people pass these exams. A lot of our courses are about passing, whether it’s theBar or the UK equivalent to that, but some of them are about the professional development space and how we keep people continually learning and continually excited about that. I really thought at the end of my degree it was like, don’t want to learn anything else, never want to have another exam again.

And then just fell in love with the space and how much there is to offer, how much you can learn. And then I’d say one of the main things that put me in my role is networking and make sure it’s genuine. I’m not saying you go to every single event that’s on and just try and be what we’d call a networking cowboy, just back and forth having meaningless conversations, but find genuinely genuine events that you are excited about, have genuine interest to bring to those events and have those conversations that can really spark, oh that’s really interesting. I like the sound of that job. That might be areas that I want to pull into mind. And there you can really build yourself a level of interest and a level of communication and standing in your network to go, yeah, I really like this, I love what I’m doing. You might have bits of your job that I’m not so interested in, but that’s still a learning point too.

Tom Mighell:

I keep saying I never want to learn again because I still continue to have, even at my age, I continue to have the dreams where I wake up and it is the day of the final exam for a class that I’ve never attended all semester. So I’m still having those dreams, but actually I still like the idea of learning for myself without the idea of exams and doing that online and in the way that you describe is a lot friendlier, less pressured way to deal with it than my dreams lead me to believe. Alright, we are now at the point where we ask our obligatory questions around artificial intelligence and chat GPT, and we’re going to break it into two parts really. So I’m going to ask the more generic question, Dennis is going to ask the more targeted question. So I think what I want to ask first is we’re seeing a lot of tools that are popping up. Chat PT takes up a lot of the air, there’s a lot of the hype cycle around generative AI at this point in time. This is not necessarily a learning question because Dennis is going to ask more about how this applies to learning. So let’s talk about it more in general. What role are you seeing generative AI tools playing in the legal market either today or in the future?

Caitlin McCabe:

I love this question. I mean it comes up I think every conference, every webinar, everywhere you go at the moment. And it’s such an interesting one because I really think it has many, many use cases, whether it’s helping with contract review, whether it’s as simple as being in the background in a meeting recording and then pulling out some of those summary dates. The same it can do in contracts to make sure that you are making sure that you’re not missing those specific dates and things that are really, really important. How is it going to help with legal research and getting through that? Is the future going to be that a client is going to be onboarded through an AI chat? And that might be a more efficient way of doing it and pointing you in the right department from the beginning. There are so many use cases for it, and I love the debate between do you buy, try and build yourself?

Of course it depends on the firm and your use case. I do think one of the most important things that people need to nail down is that use case. What do we want to have it solve? It’s not going to solve every single problem in the world. You are always going to need that human in the loop. So it’s what training do those people need? What regulations are going to come in in the future that we can’t really predict right now that’s going to change the way that we might be thinking about the course of it and how do we make sure that we’re constantly getting the best out of the tool and the people using it? Is it going to be lots of prompt engineering training for lawyers or is it going to be that you’re going to have prompt engineers in the firms who knows? But that’s such an exciting space to watch it and see what different firms are doing and how you learn from that.

Dennis Kennedy:

Yeah, exactly. So Tom will tell you that listeners to the podcast well know, I’ve heard many times that I’m teaching an AI in the law class at Michigan State University School of Law, but it’s really exciting this year. The students are great, we’re doing cool things and there’s changes almost every day it seems. So AI is going to be a challenge and an opportunity for the legal profession and for legal education. And I think that challenge and opportunities are heading at its really, really fast. So I’m in awe of the potential developments like personalized ai, learning assistance and AI that can help you learn the way you learn best. And one of the projects I have for the students in my class is to figure out a way to probably just using prompting, but to create some personalized AI learning assistance to help them with the class. So you’re doing a lot of things. I love this sort of multidimensional platform. You’re talking about different approaches, but what are you seeing in the trenches with AI in education especially that you think are really going to move us forward and completely change the way that we think about education?

Caitlin McCabe:

I think there’s two. For me, I’d say one would be the marking standpoint of it and where do we go with that, the argument either side of it. And the second would be the personalized learning. Like we’ve talked a little bit about from the marking standpoint, yes, it’s great, but it’s not just a money saver, it’s not just a time saver for teachers. You’re always going to have to have that human in the loop and how do we make sure that’s effective as possible? How do we make sure those scripts are being properly marked and properly generated? Is it a case of you’ll have some that you have to make very clear are AI marked and then maybe spot checked and then some that will definitely be just two to marked. Is there a mix of that just like students are probably going to have to flag in the future potentially what their prompts are when they’ve been putting it into the ai, if they’re using it to write scripts, are teachers and professors going to have to end up doing that too?

And you really earmark where they’ve used AI to say, I’ve used this to help me do X or Y and mark this. I think that’s a really, maybe not one of the most talked about spaces, but I find it a really interesting one to see how that goes in the future because I think it needs to be just as clear from the students’ point of view as the professors. And then with the personalized learning, I just think the opportunities are endless there. But it comes down to really understanding your use case and understanding what your students want. Do they want that they are the ones that are learning? And what is it for? Is it for an exam or is it for continued professional learning and how can you make that work best for them? There’s a lot of learning science and things behind that in terms of whether you learn best with those repeated breaks in between and how do you make that happen?

If you’ve got one student who wants to have that 60 minute lecture and you’ve got one who wants to have that five minute, how can we use technology to then break that up so it’s not you in the background going, okay, I’ll snip this in bits for you. It’s automatically, okay, I want five minutes, I want 60. And getting to a point of that, I want to read, I want to watch, I want questions, I don’t. And how do we make that all happen for the future? From the content side of things, it would be amazing to be able to try and do. I don’t think we’re there yet, but I think that’s the future and I really think that will make a massive change.

Tom Mighell:

You keep making me want to go do learning stuff. I can’t help it. Alright, we’ve got more questions for Caitlin McKay, but we’ve got to take another quick break to hear from our sponsors. And now let’s get back to the Kennedy Mighell report. I’m Dennis Kennedy, and I’m Tom Mighell. And we are joined by our special guest, Caitlin McCabe at Barbie Global. We’ve got time for just a few questions and that first one is what we call our best advice question, which is, what is the best advice that either you’ve been given by someone that’s helped you out with what you’re doing or maybe the best advice that you have for our listeners or maybe both if you want to do both of those.

Caitlin McCabe:

I’d say maybe the best piece of advice, and it’s a very simple short kind of be product obsessed. Be obsessed about what your product is, what you are trying to learn. And if you go from there, you’re not going to fall too far. Make sure that you are honing in on those use cases, honing in on exactly what you’re trying to achieve and don’t try and do everything in one shot. Just get that one piece right and sorted and then go from there. It’s not about trying to get a hundred percent of the way a hundred percent of the time all the time. Just be obsessed about what interests you, what product you want to work on, and that’s your starting point.

Dennis Kennedy:

Cool. I like that. So I have two questions, and you touched on this a bit when you talked about networking, but how would you encourage today’s law students and new lawyers to find career paths in legal tech and non-traditional careers in law? Because more of them are definitely thinking in this direction. And then second, who are the fresh voices in legal tech that you would like to single out and see as part of our Fresh Voices series?

Caitlin McCabe:

So answer the first one. I think just staying curious with an open mind is the first part to do. Of course you can go to law school and think that’s what I want to do and I want to become an attorney and many attorneys then turn into the legal tech departments and go to legal tech side. So there’s no one right way for your career to go. And I think it’s trying to keep that in mind, that kind of lawyer mindset. And I know there’s a lot of perfectionism around that and going, well, I’ve done all of this for so long, I’ve studied this for I should use it. You are using it, but you’re using it in a different way to have a different effect on legal provision than you might’ve first thought. Nobody can predict their career 10, 15, 20 years out because nobody can predict what’s going to go on in the world in that stage.

So it’d be my first bit of advice. And the second would be a little bit on the networking side of things. Just make sure you’re learning and listening and being open-minded to those conversations that you might have with lots of different people. You’ll never know what roles that you find interesting and where you might find bits like that. And if you start a role and it’s not for you, don’t think of it as a fail, don’t think of it as I’ve tried that it’s not for me. It’s a win because you can still go away and tick that box and go, okay, great, I did it. I’ve learned from this and here’s what I can take into the next one. And I think really having that change in mindset from failing is horrible and this and that to going, what did I learn from that and how can I improve that in the future?

And how will this help shape my career is a really important point and one that I wish learned a bit earlier in life than crying over a’s and not a Stars. And my recommendation would be Arthur Gotham Dika. She works in a law firm at the moment, really in the cutting edge of that legal technology space. Most of her role is to interface with the lawyers and make sure that the tech and adoption side of things are really going hand in hand. And I think that’s such an interesting conversation that you can bring to the table there.

Tom Mighell:

This has been just terrific. We want to thank Caitlin McCabe at Barbara Global for being a guest on the show. Caitlin, before we go, can you tell people where they can learn more about you or get in touch with you or see what you’re doing?

Caitlin McCabe:

Yeah, definitely. So probably the best place to learn more about me and get in touch is through LinkedIn. If you just search my name and Barbara, it’ll probably come up quite easily for you.

Dennis Kennedy:

Cool. Thank you so much, Caitlin. You were a fantastic guest. Great information, advice and advice for our listeners. This education space is going to be so fascinating in the next few years and beyond, but now it’s time for our parting shots at One Tip website or observation you can use the second this podcast ends. Caitlin, take it away.

Caitlin McCabe:

So I think my one tip would be to stay curious whether that’s in learning or in tech, you are constantly going to be doing that. There are many, many courses that you can go out there and learn from in the professional development space. Definitely go and do one of those. And secondly, if you’re not ready to go and do a course in staying curious, you can write down a task that takes you a really long time to do or one that you’d wish you don’t have to do and investigate from there. I’m sure there’ll be something out there that you can find or build or buy that will cut that task timing down for you and really help you add value in the future.

Tom Mighell:

So my parting shot, I feel like Dennis would be disappointed if I let too many podcasts go without talking about newest headphones, earbuds, whatever. I’m always looking for something new and interesting. It’s not that I’m not happy with what I’m using, it’s that I always am sort of looking for the next new thing. And one thing that I’ve noticed is when I’m out walking the dog in the morning when it’s dark or just getting light with my noise canceling earbuds, I never quite sure when that car drives by. It sometimes surprises me. And so I, and frankly, if those of you out there are already acquainted with this, I’m new to it, but to bone conduction headphones, which the ones I want to talk about, the ones that I’ve found that I love are called, they’re from a company called Shocks, S-H-O-K-Z. And they’re called the Open Run Pro two, and they fit around your ears. They do not go in your ears. And it is like a miracle that you can actually hear music or talking or podcasts or anything or audio books while you’re listening. So you can pay attention to what’s around you. You can listen to things. That’s a very good product. And I’ll put the link in the show notes. I’m not going to use it for everything because the noise canceling one also have their uses when it’s time. But absolutely loving these and using them on all of my walks now with the puppy, Dennis.

Dennis Kennedy:

So this may surprise you, Tom, but I actually have some bone conduction headphones that I like. And I was looking at these same shocks that you were, but I already have some. I didn’t see enough incremental benefit to go that route. So my parting shot is something that just kind of blew me away. And it comes, it’s Salmon Khan’s new book, brave New Words. So Salmon Khan created the Khan Academy, which is one of the premier personalized learning sites on the internet. And he got access to open AI’s g PT four early on, and he figured out all these things that it could be used for in personalized learning. And on the Khan Academy, they now have this tour they call K Migo, K-H-A-N-M-I-G-O. And it’s $4 a month for students and it will do that. All this personalized learning stuff and the book and this tool have just blown me away. It’s changed my thinking about how I’m doing my class and how I learn on my own. And as we keep finding, Tom thinks he’s not interested in learning and education and he doesn’t want to go back to learning and stuff, but the new ways of learning are getting Tom interested and they should.

Tom Mighell:

Yeah. Well, there’s a discussion for another day. So that wraps it up for this edition of the Kennedy Mighell report. Thanks for joining us on the podcast. You can find show notes for this episode on the Legal Talk Networks page for our show. You can find all of our previous podcasts with transcripts on the Legal Talk Network website. If you’d like to subscribe to our podcast, again, you can do that on the Legal Talk Network website in your favorite podcast app or on the Apple iTunes site. If you want to get in touch with us, you can always reach out to us on LinkedIn or remember, we always love getting a voicemail. That number is 7 2 0 4 4 1 6 8 2 0. So until the next podcast, I’m Tom Mighell.

Dennis Kennedy:

And I’m Dennis Kennedy and you’ve been listening to the Kennedy Mighell report, a podcast on legal technology with an internet focus. We wanted to remind you to share the podcast with a friend or two that helps us out. As always, a big thank you to the Legal Talk Network team for producing and distributing this podcast. And we’ll see you next time for another episode of the Kennedy Mighell Report on the Legal Talk Network.

Announcer:

Thanks for listening to the Kennedy Mighell report. Check out Dennis and Tom’s book, the Lawyer’s Guide to Collaboration Tools and Technologies, smart Ways to Work Together from a Books or Amazon. And join us every other week for another edition of the Kennedy Mighell Report, only on the Legal Talk Network.