Fresh Voices on Legal Tech with Ivy Grey

Episode Notes

Transcript

[Music]

Intro: Web 2.0. Innovation, trends, collaboration. Software, metadata. Got the world turning as fast as it can? Hear how technology can help. Legally speaking, with two of the top legal technology experts, authors, and lawyers: Dennis Kennedy and Tom Mighell. Welcome to The Kennedy-Mighell Report, here on, The Legal Talk Network.

Dennis Kennedy: And welcome to Episode 342 of The Kennedy-Mighell Report. I’m Dennis Kennedy in Ann Arbor.

Tom Mighell: And I’m Tom Mighell in Dallas.

Dennis Kennedy: In our last episode we talked with Tiffany Graves in our Fresh Voices on Legal Tech series. She was a fantastic guest, and you should listen to the interview if you haven’t already. In this episode, we have another very special guest in our Fresh Voices series.

In Fresh Voices, we want to showcase different and compelling perspectives on Legal Tech and on other topics as well. We have another fabulous guest. Tom, what’s all in our agenda for this episode?

Tom Mighell: Well Dennis, in this edition of the Kennedy-Mighell Report, we’re thrilled to continue our Fresh Voices on Legal Tech interview series with Ivy Grey. Chief Strategy & Growth Officer at WordRake, one of the ABA Legal Technology Resource Centers Women of Legal Tech and a whole lot more. We want our Fresh Voices series to not only introduced you to terrific leaders in the Legal Tech-based but also provide you with their perspective on the things and technology you should be paying attention to. And as usual we’ll finish up with our parting shots that Onetip website or observation that you can start to use the second that this podcast is over. But first up, we are so pleased to welcome Ivy Grey to the Fresh Voices series. Ivy, welcome to the Kennedy-Mighell Report.

Ivy Grey: Thank you so much for having me. It has been a dream to be on this podcast, so I’m glad I finally get to do it.

Tom Mighell: Oh, I’m blushing you cannot see, but I am blushing. Before we get started, can you tell the audience a little bit more about yourself, your role as Chief Strategy & Growth Officer at WordRake and how you got there may be?

Ivy Grey: Sure. So, I practiced corporate bankruptcy and restructuring for 10 years. And before that I was in advertising and public relations. And WordRake is clear and concise editing software for lawyers, and I used it in my legal practice for three years before joining the team. And that’s where I absolutely fell in love. In about five years ago, they made me an offer I couldn’t refuse. And this is usually where I joke that not only am I the president of Hair Club for Men, I’m also a client. I absolutely use the product every day, and it’s just something that I can’t even imagine living without.

So, now, I’m the Chief Strategy & Growth Officer at WordRake and in my role as CSO, my goal is to grow the company. That doesn’t mean generating demand or selling anyone whose attention I can grab. It really means demonstrating a need, educating people about that need and helping people build the foundation to grow and change so that I can solve their problem long-term, hopefully using WordRake. And in this role, I’m looking for something bigger than a sale, I’m going for change. So, there are no scraps. I’ve got to be ready to meet customers wherever they are.

And that means that I have to know about all of my favorite things, like technology competence, how Word works, how to analyze an optimized workflow. And I have to understand the substance of what we’re changing. And for us, that means legal writing. It’s really an interdisciplinary job and it’s admittedly hard, but super fun for me.

Tom Mighell: It’s cool, you know, Ivy, at sometimes people now, listeners now, I get a little frustrated with how difficult it’s still is to explain technology, both old and new technology and its benefits to the people in the legal profession and to me, WordRake is one example. To me that’s like I didn’t even have to think about the benefits of the doubt when I first ran across it. The only thing I will say about you and then I’m on record as you know for saying that you explain the lawyer’s ethical duty of technology competence better than anybody I’ve ever heard who presents on it. Would you talk a bit about your approach to communicating with lawyers and others in the legal profession about technology and its benefits?

Ivy Grey: Yes. So, you’ve got technology with substance and show how they support each other. They can’t just be in different realms and I think that believing that their separate is what keeps people from changing. No one’s going to change just for the heck of it. They have to see the value in that new proposed state and they have to see a practical impact on their life. So, I show them that clear picture of how all the pieces worked together and I make it real. So, instead of some abstract mythical thing that’s 50 years away, I try to make it a now thing and a change that they can imagine happening to them and them wanting to happen tomorrow.

Tom Mighell: So, to follow along with that because change is a hard thing in my business as well as getting larger change on things. I remember, Ivy, that you and I spoke on a virtual panel. I think a few years ago on the duty of technology competence.

(00:05:01)

I seem to remember that the kind of the vibe of the panel was that we were, I guess, simultaneously, hopeful, and skeptical of lawyers getting it together and really understanding it, and getting better about it. So, fast forward a couple years to where we are now, how do you view the – I’ll call the tech competence landscape. Are we getting better? Lori’s getting better. Is it still stagnant? I hope we’re not back sliding, but what are you seeing?

Ivy Grey: It’s pretty stagnant, which is really disappointing. People still don’t know how to do basic things that have real-world effects. They still don’t know how to use simple things like Microsoft Word and Outlook properly and pretty much every lawyer uses those. And on one hand, I blame the muddled messages for the lack of change. There are, of course, the people shouting about blockchain still and lawyers learning to code. And that’s just jumping way too far ahead and I think it’s really missing the point.

And then on the other hand, I think that things haven’t changed enough. Because a lot of the people doing the talking, they don’t connect with the people who are in the trenches, doing this work every day. And to those people in the trenches, the work that they do has the appearance of working. It seems fine. So, we have to do more than just promote our solution and tell people what they should do. We have to understand and help people understand what they’re missing out on and make them want to move forward. And just a shiny feature list or directives hand it down from above, don’t really do all of that. So, for me, it goes back to connecting technology with substance, and I’m trying to do more myself.

Dennis Kennedy: So, Ivy, during this strategy role. And by coincidence, I’m actually taking a class this summer on strategy and designing strategy. So, I’m curious about what your approach to thinking about strategy and legal technology and serve both in the profession and in WordRake. How you go — maybe talk about how you go about that? And then are there specific approaches or I guess like, strategic thinkers that you go to, or is it something that you kind of have worked on and developed on your own? I think it would be interesting to hear your perspective about kind of stepping back and take a strategic approach rather than a tactical approach to legal technology.

Ivy Grey: So, my approach is kind of boring but it starts with really understanding the definition and recognizing what strategy is. It’s not a goal, most of the time when people say, oh we got the strategy, it’s really just a goal. And the goal is, make lots of money or be efficient. I was like, okay, it’s not a goal or that’s not a strategy, that’s just a goal. So, of course, you know I can get there. So, strategy is how you get to those goals, and the key to it is alignment. And we have to align our everyday activities with our big picture action items with our goals. And if that action or that tactic isn’t tied to the goal, then we shouldn’t do it. And it doesn’t matter if it’s cheap or if it’s easy, or if it’s the hot topic, it’s not doing anything to advance you towards your goals, which means that it’s not strategic.

So, what I do to make sure that I’m thinking strategically, and this is my own method not from a class or anything is, I practice formulating questions where my goal is the answer or the solution to problem. And I figure that if I can ask the question then I can work backwards to figure out all of the steps and pain point that went into asking that question and then I can create a plan that leads you there.

So, for example, if I want you to use WordRake then I’ve got to get you to ask the question, how can I write better legal documents? But before you’d ever asked that question, then you’ve got to be convinced that good legal writing matters. So, I consider it my job to lead you there. Now here’s another example that’s like very tech competency. If I want you to use the Navigation Pane in Word, which is my favorite tool ever. Then I must get you to ask the question, how can I create and enforce a flexible digital outline in my documents? But no one’s ever going to come up that question on their own. So, before you’d ever asked that question, you got to be convinced that structural hierarchy and documents is important. And that outlines are a great way to achieve that hierarchy.

And that is again, going back to my theme of today, which is tying a technical solution to substantive goal. And here, it’s the Navigation Pane with substantive legal writing. You get clarity from structural hierarchy. So, for me, that’s how you create a long-term change and you really align your goals with your activities.

Tom Mighell: But I can see that with kind of with the average lawyer who just wants to open up Word and start working on a document, that can be a long haul to get to.

(00:10:02)

I mean, that’s where we want it. I think that we want to get there, but that’s I suppose — I’m preaching here to the choir, so I probably shouldn’t.

Ivy Grey: Well, no, we can enjoy that. I think that a lot of times tech creators, they are just like, my tool is so obvious, my solution is so obvious. Why do I have to convince you of all of these other things? And then, of course, the tech fails and there’s no adoption, there’s no traction. And I’m dorky enough that I will sit around reading about structural hierarchy for months, so that I can write one blog post explaining to you why structural hierarchy matters and why the Navigation Pane will help you enforce that structural hierarchy. And my whole goal of that is because I want to be able to go to legal writing professors and say, you can teach these things in your classes and it isn’t at cross purposes or taking away from your legal writing teaching. Instead, it’s reinforcing your legal writing thinking and your legal writing teaching because you’re scaffolding all of the different things in the tool that you’re using right now. And I think that that is a compelling argument, but most people don’t want to take the time to do it.

Tom Mighell: Yeah, well, I will say, you have now given me new inspiration to reengage with the Navigation Pane. So, I’m going to take a look at that because that’s something that very much underutilized in my use of Word. So, take a look at that. So, let’s talk a little bit about occasionally on this podcast, we sometimes tend to want to talk about collaboration, collaboration tools and technologies. And because of that, we like to ask our guests about what collaboration tools they use. So, what are some of your favorite ways to collaborate, whether you’re collaborating with customers or with co-workers, or other groups, or just anybody?

Ivy Grey: So, I’m really boring, and I have to admit that I’ve tried using some other tools that other people laud as the most exciting collaboration tool, and I just can’t get into them. And I think part of it is that I’m an asynchronous collaborator. I want to work on my own schedule and I think others do too. So, for me, the goal is to make it easy to share information with other people so that it can be like a relay race where they pick it up and run with it. So, I have to think about my thinking before I can hand it off to someone else.

So, I draw a lot of diagrams, usually abusing PowerPoint to do them, and I write a lot of project briefs. And this sort of preparation forces me to get clear on what I’m doing and why I’m doing it before I ask anyone else to do the work. That way, if they don’t understand an explicit direction that I’ve given, they can kind of backfill that information because they understand my goals and objectives. And I think that care for others and making sure that they don’t waste their time is an important part of collaboration, no matter what platform you’re using.

So, diagrams, comments, track changes, screenshots with arrows, those are just really clear ways to make sure that another person knows what you’re talking about so that you can collaborate effectively. And I don’t care what tools you use to make those things happen, as long as the other person gets the information.

Tom Mighell: Oh, no question. I mean, that’s one of our big themes is, is that it doesn’t necessarily matter on the tool you’re using.  If you do not have a good process for collaborating with people, if you don’t have that in mind, then there’s not going to be a successful collaboration. So, tool is not even an issue.

Ivy Grey: So, one of the things that I do when it’s not clear that we’re on the same page, I’ll get on a screen share with people and I will open up PowerPoint, and I’ll start drawing. And I will say, is this what you’re thinking? Is this how it works? Is this how the process fits together? Are these how the ideas overlap? And it immediately makes clear what I’m not understanding or what they maybe weren’t clear on. And when I was setting up the Department of Commerce at the transition. This is one of the things that I did to gather all the information from the lifelong employees and set up the incoming commerce crew. And I had to understand their process. And so, I would screen share, and I’d draw it all out, and they were just like, no one’s ever done this before. No one’s ever said this before. And now we actually understand the process better because we’ve seen it all on one page.

Tom Mighell: Sort of amazing when people are introduced to the themes of collaboration. All right, we’ve got a lot more questions for Ivy Grey, but before we do that, let’s take a break for a quick word from our sponsors.

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Dennis Kennedy: And we are back with Ivy Grey, Chief Strategy & Growth Officer at WordRake. Ivy, from your vantage point, and I’m sure that you’re seeing a lot what is happening right now in legal tech that’s on your radar, that excites you and seems to have the most potential. And I guess if you would, kind of talk about how those technologies might impact legal education as well as law practice.

Ivy Grey: So right now, what’s exciting for me is that people actually seem to be examining their workflows in a way that I hadn’t seen before, and they also seem to be willing to touch the sacred cow of legal writing in a way that I hadn’t seen before. And I actually think that these changes are driven by ChatGPT. People are trying to find ways to cram it into their process and that makes them re-evaluate their workflows when they never had done that before. And it also makes them open to thinking that there is something systematic about writing and that it’s not just this untouchable art form.

So, I think with that you’re getting a lot of exciting new changes and it’s just much more open than it’s ever been before. And I don’t think anyone legal tech specific product was going to capture the national attention in that way, or even the global attention in that way to get people to think in this way. So, it’s generating conversation that hadn’t been there before.

Tom Mighell: Well, let’s continue that discussion a little bit and I think the hype cycle around AI and I guess ChatGPT has really been off the charts in terms of technology. And like I have said on multiple podcasts, I am always very surprised if we make it through this episode without Dennis touting some feature of ChatGPT that he has been using. Given that WordRake is a writing tool, I am pretty sure you have thoughts about ChatGPT and the role that it is currently playing and will continue to play in the law. Where do you think this is all heading?

Ivy Grey: So right now, I’m not sure that it’s heading much of anywhere because it’s — for now, anywhere really quickly. So ChatGPT in its current iteration is still very general purpose and it still needs a lot of guardrails and I think that’s going to get better over the next few months or years, depending on how quickly we develop and where our data is. So, it’s super useful for first drafts and like getting out of a rut of thinking, but I wouldn’t just use the output, which is really how people are imagining it. Because what I found, as you said, being a legal writing company. I’ve studied the writing and the writing is wordy, circuitous, redundant. And I’ve been trying to figure out where that comes from. So, I’ve gone back to the old junior high and high school composition playbooks and classes, and I’ve recognized the patterns in ChatGPT.

So, what it’s doing is it’s applying very rigorously these playbooks where you are creating this appearance of coherence based on words. So, what it’s really doing is providing what’s called lexical cohesion, where you are using vocabulary and repeated words to make sure that they fit together. And ChatGPT has to do this because you’re just predicting one word at a time. It’s not a complete thought. And so, when you look at it, it’s like, wow, this totally makes sense. But does it really?

(00:19:58)

Once you start to get into it, you realize that it’s really the same sentence five times in a paragraph and it’s really formulaic, and it’s very much the type of writing that I was doing in 6th, 7th, 8th, 9th grade. And for lawyers, we need to write better than that. So, I would say use ChatGPT as your first draft so that you’re not staring at a blank page. And I’m an ethics person, so I’m going to add this caveat. Use generic placeholder names and generalize your request. Don’t give away the bank if you’re going to use ChatGPT for a first draft. And then after that, don’t copy and paste what GPT spits out. Take the ideas and write in your own words so that you are still using your own voice and you aren’t just transferring that repetition. And if you do copy and paste, then you’re going to need an editing tool like WordRake to help you edit for clarity and brevity so that you sound like the sophisticated writer that you are. So that’s how I’d use it.

And then in terms of what I’m seeing now that I’m actually kind of excited about with ChatGPT is LexisNexis is doing this cool thing where they’re using ChatGPT to generate answers and then they’re also using their own older based tools to generate answers. And then they’re comparing the quality of each of the answers and serving the user the best one. And that is super exciting. And I think that’s really using data in the most powerful way and guardrails in the most powerful way. And whoever can do this the best, I think is going to be the winner when it all comes down to it.

Tom Mighell: So I haven’t seen the Lexis tool, but is it better at maybe it’s not doing this yet, maybe it’s not this point yet, but I’m hoping it’s better at returning accurate, actually existing citations than the lawyer who decided to pull completely bogus citations out of it and got sanctioned for it.

Ivy Grey: You know, I was actually just reading the court transcript of that before I got on the call with you. So, yes, it definitely does better and it generates real cases because it is confined to those cases. That said, if you’re using a transformer tool like this at all, no matter how much data you have, if you are building on the data set, there’s always going to be some risk of hallucination. So, there has to be some way to compare your answer to some validated thing and then completely reject the hallucinated answer.

Tom Mighell: Yeah, there’s got to be a QC in there.

Ivy Grey: Yeah, you have to have a lot of data to get to that point.

Dennis Kennedy: Yeah. Tom has forbidden me from talking about ChatGPT —

Ivy Grey: It’s not true.

Dennis Kennedy: But will interject something here. I think it’s —

Tom Mighell: It’s just a free space on the bingo card for us and it’s always —

Dennis Kennedy: But when I taught my class in AI and the law this last semester and students, we looked a lot at it and how it would be used practically. And what I’m intrigued by is there are these very definite constraints at the moment and there are some of these issues like the perfect citations and stuff that almost seems like it’s too hard of a problem to ever solve. But when you work with those constraints, so if you say, maybe it’s okay for a first draft, I would say what’s really good is going to be an outline and other things like that kind of get you off the ground because it gives you something that you can work with. And then I’m also intrigued when you mentioned Lexus, I think of Thompson Reuters practical law that I think using a GPT type of tool that’s drawing from that practical law material is really interesting to me because it’s not as much of a moving target as case law is.

But enough of that. I guess that when I talk to students about technology and they’re trying to figure out what it is that they need to know as they go out into the world. And especially new lawyers are also trying to say, I went to my law firm, and they’re so far behind where I’m at technology, and I don’t even know where to begin. So, what are the one or two technologies and WordRake I think, is legitimately in contentions for this. Do you recommend that listeners really focus on and learn right now and what are good ways to get started?

Ivy Grey: Okay, so obviously I have to say WordRake because I love it, and it’s the best tool for editing for clarity, brevity and simplicity out there. But it works in Word. And so, my big answer is Word. Learn to use Microsoft Office, especially Word and Outlook.

Tom Mighell: Amen.

(00:24:59)

Ivy Grey: It’s where you work. It’s practically where all technology is built from and it’s all built on these frameworks and a lot of the same mouse gestures and the layering and the labels are going to transfer to any other tool that you have. So, if you learn to use Microsoft Word then you’re going to have transferable skills. And if you learn to use Excel and PowerPoint then all of those skills are going to transfer as well to Adobe and anything else because it’s a systematic way of thinking. So, if you learn to use the sophisticated tools in Microsoft Office, then you’re going to start thinking about how you label things, what your structure is, what is this thing called, what task do you do first? And it will kind of constrain your thinking so that you become more systematic and logical about what you do rather than just doing things in any order.

So, you’ll better understand how you work now, which will make it easier for you to change how you work later. And I think that’s really the key. It’s not time wasted. You’re always going to get some benefit from that.

Tom Mighell: I’m always glad to have guests on our podcast to talk about technology because sometimes I worry that Dennis and I come across as the grumpy old men yelling, get off our technology lawn. I think when thinking about how far lawyers still have to go in working with technology. So, I want you to help us get out of this rut, Ivy. Tell us what gives you optimism for the use of technology in the legal profession, and what are you seeing out there that gives you hope for the future despite what we are seeing?

Ivy Grey: So, I think that a lot of what held us back, besides the obsession with Blockchain, is that we have had a lot of solutions in search of problems, and we’re now starting to see more founder experts who have deep subject matter expertise and workflow expertise, and I think that they’re bringing better solutions to the market.

So, for example, Jackie Schaefer from Clear Brief is all about how do you know what facts are? What is the provenance of those facts? Aaron Levine really understands the intricacies of how divorce works. Haley Altman with Doxley really understood the concept of closing folders and doing those huge transactions, and they brought that intelligent deep subject matter expertise to the table and built tools around the workflows that people actually had to solve problems that people actually had. And it delivered real results, and it led to great adoption. So, for me, that makes me really hopeful to see women experts who are making tools that really serve our ecosystem and not just their egos, and it seems like there’s more of that, and that gives me huge optimism for the future of technology.

Tom Mighell: All right, we’ve got a few more questions for Ivy, but let’s take a quick break for a word from our sponsors, and we’ll be right back.

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Dennis Kennedy: And now let’s get back to the Kennedy-Mighell Report. I’m Dennis Kennedy.

Tom Mighell: And I’m Tom Mighell. We are joined by our special guest, Ivy Grey, Chief Strategy & Growth Officer at WordRake. We have time for just a few more questions, Ivy. We like to call these kind of our common Fresh Voices questions because we like the different answers we’re getting from our different guests. So, this is what I call our best advice question and what is the best advice either that you’ve been given around legal technology or the best advice that you would like to leave our listeners with before you go? Or maybe both, if you want to do both.

Ivy Grey: It’s a little bit of both and it’s the same thing. Listen to your librarians, paralegals and secretaries. They know more about choosing and using technology than most other people because they zoom out and they can see how a lot of people work. They look beyond themselves and they have this range of perspectives and professional longevity that will serve you well.

(00:30:04)

So, draw on it. And honestly, having my mother was a secretary, and she just knew so much. And learning from her and learning those tools. And giving me that deep understanding, serve me really well in practice and it’s serving me well in my alternate legal career.

Dennis Kennedy: It’s interesting because through my career, I learned so much from paralegals and there was an article came out today. I saw on Twitter or whatever, people are suggesting that ChatGPT was going to replace paralegals is the most hilarious idea I’ve ever heard. It’s like the one thing that I guarantee ChatGPT cannot do and it would be like the dumbest thing to use it for.

Ivy Grey: Paralegals the backbone of a firm. It would be terrible to get rid of that knowledge.

Tom Mighell: They get the work done.

Dennis Kennedy: It’s like you don’t even understand this business at all, if that’s your point of view. And my response was, I think that ChatGPT will replace non-equity partners, and before it will even touch paralegals. So, I like to end with the Fresh Voices that you see. So, who are the Fresh Voices for you? Like who do you see sort of new in this area that has a really fresh interesting ideas that you’ve come to rely on and wanted to read what they write in and hear what they say.

Ivy Grey: So, my two Fresh Voices are Jack Shepherd and Jennifer Marsh. So, I’ll go with Jennifer Marsh first because she is less known, which is just a shame. So, she spent years building Bloomberg’s docket stool, and before that, she spent 10 to 15 years practicing law. So, she is one of those rare breeds of lawyers who knows machine learning and natural language processing and data analytics in a really practical way. But somehow, people think she’s in marketing, and I just don’t get that because I couldn’t be further from the truth. So, I’d like more people to pay attention to her as a Fresh Voice because her expertise is just so relevant right now. And I think that she’s really underestimated for what she can do and someone who has those tactical chops and that practice experience is just out of this world.

And then the reason that I’m a huge fan of Jack Shepherd from I manage, is that he thinks deeply about workflow and he doesn’t just insist that one way is the right way. And I think that the way he presents his solutions and raises his questions, get you to rethink what you thought you knew about how you were supposed to actually accomplish a legal task and I love that.

Tom Mighell: Well, Ivy, we really want to thank you for being a guest on the podcast. Can you tell us where people can learn more about you, get in touch with you, if they want to, where do they go?

Ivy Grey: Yes. So wordrake.com is where I live and I’m easily found and you can also email me at ivyg. That’s I as in igloo, V as in Victor, Y as in yellow, G @wordrake.com and I love hearing from people. Don’t hesitate to reach out.

Dennis Kennedy: Well, thank you so much, Ivy. You are a fantastic guest with great information, great advice and great insights for our listeners. Now it’s time for our parting shots that Onetip website or observation you can use the second this podcast ends, Ivy, take it away.

Ivy Grey: All right. I can’t resist so I’m going to give to. One, Navigation Pane, learn it, use it, love it. And two, it turns out that even lawyers hate legalist, so start using plain language and WordRake can help with that. Our new simplicity mode that we launched in October is here to help you and it will not change legally operative phrases. So, get on that.

Tom Mighell: Please use plain language. All right, my parting shot is we’re at vacation season. If you are taking a vacation, if you are going somewhere outside of your office or your home network, please, please, please use a VPN. I hate that I have to keep saying this but bring a VPN with you. And we want to make sure that you’re safe and secure. A lot of us maybe going overseas, where if we want to be able to watch Netflix or some of our favorite shows, we have to have a VPN. Whatever your reason is, if you are connecting to a network that is not your own and trusted, please make sure you bring a VPN. I’m not even talk about the tools. There are a lot of good VPNs out there. We can talk about them on another podcast. Just go get one and use one. Dennis?

Dennis Kennedy: Well, believe it or not, Tom, I’ve had a lot of people lately tell me I need to share my really practical ChatGPT tips. So, one of them I have that I’ve been really playing with lately is this notion to say, if I have the right prompts in ChatGPT, how can I get good at that? Or do I even need to get good at that?

(00:34:58)

And so, what are things you can do with ChatGPT is to kind of tell it what you want and I think this is something that is going to have implications and access just as fast. But you can basically tell it what you want and then ask it, tell it to assume it’s an expert in creating ChatGPT prompts and then have it generate the prompt for you or have it generated four or five prompts and then choose the one that helps you and then you get like an optimize prompt to use that will help you get results that you want. And I’ve been playing with this and its really fascinating uses that you’re leveraging ChatGPT to help you and it’s super simple, super practical way, which is what I’m all about when it comes to new technologies.

Ivy Grey: Okay. So, you said optimize prompt? And of course, I thought Optimus Prime which is perfect for a Transformer. So now, I need a little metal toy called Optimize Prompt. Sorry.

Tom Mighell: Well, that’s Dennis is a bingo for me. So, thank you and that wraps it up for this edition of the Kennedy-Mighell Report. Thanks for joining us on the podcast. You can find show notes for this episode on the Legal Talk Networks page for the show. You can find all of our previous podcast along with transcripts on the Legal Talk Network website. Be sure to subscribe to us at the Legal Talk Network site and your favorite podcast app in iTunes or wherever you find your podcast. So, if you like to get in touch with us, you can reach out to us on LinkedIn, decreasingly on Twitter or you can leave a voicemail. Remember we like to get voice messages for our B segment. That number is (720) 441-6820. So, until the next podcast I’m Tom Mighell.

Dennis Kennedy: And I’m Dennis Kennedy, and you’ve been listening to the Kennedy-Mighell Report, a podcast on legal technology with an internet focus. If you like what you heard today, please share the podcast with your networks and on social media and as Tom said, subscribe to the podcast so it comes to you every time we release a new one. We will see you next time for another episode of the Kennedy-Mighell Report on the Legal Talk Network.

[Music]

Outro: Thanks for listening to The Kennedy-Mighell Report. Check out Dennis’ and Tom’s book, ‘The Lawyer’s Guide to Collaboration Tools and Technologies: Smart Ways to Work Together’ from ABA Books or Amazon. And Join us every other week for another edition of The Kennedy-Mighell Report only on the Legal Talk Network.

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