Life During CyberWartime

Episode Notes

Transcript

Tom Mighell: Before we get started, we’d like to thank our sponsors. Colonial Surety Company Bonds and Insurance, ServeNow, Posh Virtual Receptionists.

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Intro: Web 2.0. Innovation, trends, collaboration. Software, metadata. Got the world turning as fast as it can? Hear how technology can help. Legally speaking, with two of the top legal technology experts, authors, and lawyers: Dennis Kennedy and Tom Mighell. Welcome to The Kennedy-Mighell Report, here on, The Legal Talk Network.

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Dennis Kennedy: And welcome to Episode 307 of the The Kennedy-Mighell Report.

I’m Dennis Kennedy in Ann Arbor.

Tom Mighell: And I’m Tim Mighell in Dallas.

Dennis Kennedy: In our last episode, we did a deep dive into Microsoft 365, and we mean the “whole” Microsoft 365 stack. You will likely to find there is more in Microsoft 365 than you thought when you listen to that episode. In this episode, we’ve been noticing a great increase in the frequency and intensity of official warnings about cyberattacks by State actors. Are we living in a time of cyber war? And if so, what do we need to be doing about that? Tom, what’s all on our agenda for this episode?

Tom Mighell:  Well, Dennis in this edition of the Kennedy-Mighell Report, we will indeed be talking about the growing threats, if not reality of what is often referred to as cyberwarfare. In our second segment, we’ll take a look at whether text-to-speech is hot or not. And as usual, we’ll finish up with our parting shots; that Onetip website or observation you can start to use a second that this podcast is over. But first up, what’s all this talk about cyberwarfare, and should you be concerned about it? As we are recording this, events in the world seem to be pointing closer and closer to a war, and as part of that conflict, we are becoming better acquainted with the near certainty that, if there’s a war this time, and certainly, if there’s a war next time, it will include a cyber component to it. So, we thought we’d break down the things we do know, admit the things we’re not so sure about, and figure out how we’re supposed to prepare for a cyberwar. Dennis, let us put this on your radar?

Dennis Kennedy: Well, first, if you sort of said this time, but a disclaimer. We’re recording this in advance so when people hear it. So, it’s possible that some very relevant events might have transpired before you even listen to this. So, maybe it will look like, we’re either were very insightful or we didn’t have any idea of what we’re talking about when it comes to predicting these things. So, we will find that out. But I will say that, I did hear on the news that I was watching tonight, somebody essentially said, that we’ve been in a cyberwar several years. 

But there had been a number of warnings recently in association with Ukraine, in that situation and pointing to Russia to China, perhaps, North Korea, and Iran as being involved in cyberwarfare and of course, fingers pointing back to the U.S. But there are definitely been some warnings, and I think Tom, that the one that caught my eye was one at the official site, CISA.gov, which is, their shields up warning, which warned of expecting Russian cyberattacks. So, that’s what actually guided immediately onto my radar. So, what have you been seeing, Tom? 

Tom Mighell:  I definitely been seeing that. What’s been interesting is to I follow the news about what appeared to be some sort of preparing the ground attacks that we’re seeing that a large virus, malware went out that was defacing all the Ukrainian public, or governmental websites. It was something that was just taking them all down, and apparently that was something that was fixed rather quickly. 

The nice thing is Ukraine has got the support of other governments, and their tech people helping them with this, but it looks like there have been some things going on there. What’s kind of interesting is that, there are others who are kind of coming into play as well. Not just to the extent that Russia’s is engaged in some of these things. There are other actors who are looking to influence a potential invasion of the Ukraine. Like, a group of hackers who decided to hack their way into the Belarus train network, so that they could affect the way that the Russians use the railways to transport troops or transport other types of equipment. 

(00:05:13)

So, it’s interesting. I think it’s what we’re seeing is it works both ways, and again, there may be no conflict, but even with what we’re seeing so far, we are starting to see some minor I would call cyber skirmishes that are I think kind of testing the defenses, weakening people. starting to deal with morale. 

I agree with you, I think that the strong warning from the CISA of website, and just so you’re aware, CISA stands for — I have it here, Cybersecurity, and Infrastructure, Security Agency. It’s a part of the U.S. government that is responsible for understanding global cyber security, and they got a lot of smart people working for them, and so you should pay attention to the things they say.

Dennis Kennedy:  Yes. So, Tom, I taught a class in cyber security and data protection this fall at Michigan States’ law school, and the book I had to see this rate is from Nicole Pearlroth, and it’s called, “This Is How They Tell Me The World Ends.” And it’s great and it’s going to be a going to win some awards, but it’s as close to plain language story that you can get of what’s happening and sort of what’s going with state of cyberwarfare techniques, and a certain class of security problems known as “zero-day attacks,” and we talked about some of these things in prior episodes. This was really interesting to me and really the students of got interested in it, because it gave you some context for what’s happening, and when we say, cyberwarfare, and when we think about cyberattacks.

So, one of the things that that I talked a lot about is, and I really see there’s sort of four major cyberattack vectors:  so, there are state actors, so these are countries, the non-state actors, which can be terrorists. They can also be sort of like, rogue elements of governments. Then the third one would be organized crime, and then the fourth, I call unorganized crime or opportunity crime, vandalism in some cases where it’s just really not organized. And I think some ransomware where people are just wanting to get some money or they just wanted to deface websites come into that category.

Cyberwar, generally gets you into the world of state actors, and I think we worry a bit because those of us who are not part of this can suffer the consequences, and we’ve seen that in different, different places with infrastructure going down, and that’s, that’s what the concern is. I think the pipeline, the power systems, other things that have happened, and some of the things that you were seeing concerned about in Ukraine give us a general sense of what’s out there. So, I don’t know Tom, so that’s why I think, we really want to think about in this episode is sort of, what happens when the big guys get at it? What happens when countries are going after each other, and what do we need to do about that?

Tom Mighell:  To be honest, I think we’ve seen there have been some bad things going on, but I don’t think that the bad things that have happened so far have really affected people on a huge scale, so far. I think that they’ve limited to certain things, because when I think about things by major state actors, if you think about the state actors who are most likely to attack either the United States or its allies, we are primarily thinking about countries like Russia, Iran, north Korea, those types of things. 

But then, when you look at some of the history of cyberwarfare, some of the things aren’t what I consider to be attacks on a government. For example, the one that the United States was involved in along with Israel was, I think Stuxnet was the most one of the more famous ones, which was a bug that was designed to hamper or delay Iran’s nuclear weapons development, and was by all accounts very successful in doing that. But then, when I think about, say, a country like, North Korea, I think of the Sony pictures hack, which wasn’t exactly a government attack. It was embarrassing for Sony. It caused a lot of people to have to think about “Oh my gosh, I’m keeping all sorts of compromising stuff in my email that I need to think about protecting, but wasn’t really the type of attack that would get most people’s notice and say, “I’m really scared that they could attack us.”

(00:10:23)

Now, the last time that Russia attacked Ukraine, there was some malware. It was called Petya or NotPetya, and it was very successful in crippling a lot of Ukrainian systems. But the problem there was, I don’t know whether it was intentional or unintentional. I kind of want to think it was not completely intentional. It wound up, cascading throughout Europe and it affected the United States too, and I think the total price tag worldwide was somewhere around 10 billion dollars in damage that was caused.

So, I sort of view the history of things as saying. “Yeah, 10 billion dollars, that’s a pretty bad attack.” But I don’t think we’ve even come close to seeing the worst that an organization can do, because I really think that, the most dangerous attacks are on the most vulnerable places like our infrastructure, like our power grid, like our water systems, which to my mind are easy pickings, and there’s so many different ways to attack them. The attacker just has to be right with one of them.

Dennis Kennedy:  Right, and supply chain would be the other one. Obviously, where there is a smallish attack, and can have very outsized consequences. So, there have been some huge attacks, and I think in terms of potential, so there’s one associated with China. I mean, I’m sort of am cautious in how I describe some of these things, Tom, because I think we’re relying on information that we we’re never quite sure, like how accurate it is, because sometimes gets corrected after some period of time. 

But there’s definitely vulnerabilities in Microsoft Exchange Server, compromise of government data, personnel data, and a lot of concern about attacks that seemed to be just kind of probing for vulnerabilities. I don’t think we’ve seen just a little bit of what would happen in a sort of “cold war” versus “hot war” setting, and I see the cyberwarfare as being like, leveling the playing field. So, what are you going to do if another country attacks you? You may go after their infrastructure systems because you don’t have airpower, for example, or things like that. And so, that is kind of interesting, and I suspect that a lot of the cyber weapons are being held in reserve, and they will continue to keep evolving because as in the Pearlroth book, it says, there’s certainly, and we haven’t seen a huge decrease in the number of zero-day vulnerabilities that people are finding in systems.

Dennis Kennedy:  And for example, there was a vulnerability that was just discovered in the Linux operating system, which is probably in roughly like a zillion computing devices that has been around for 14 years, and that’s typically how these things get executed.

Tom Mighell:  So, I’m going to disagree slightly with your statement that, “cyber warfare levels the battlefield.”  I think it only levels the battlefield, if you have nations with comparable cyber power. I think that cyberwarfare actually tilts it towards the attacker, especially if the attacker has the advantage. I mean, the purpose of the state attack is primarily destabilization. It’s going to demoralize the people. It knocks him off balance. It potentially puts pressure on the governments being attacked to give up, or compromise or do whatever they can to make it stop. If you’re hitting them physically, if it if you combine a cyberattack with a physical attack, then you’re hitting them physically with bombs, but you’re also crippling their access to their banks, to electricity, to water, or whatever, that’s I think, a really powerful attack. The problem is that, the country that’s being attacked has to protect against all possible attack vectors, and the attacker really only has to be successful once. They just have to find the one way to get in, and it’s pretty simple there. So, I think that that’s why having a good defense, and being able to fight back is what allows you “to level the playing field”. I think that certainly, Ukraine probably doesn’t have the same resources that say, the United States would or some of the other larger countries, which is why I think it’s getting a lot of help from those countries in defending against what has been happening so far that we’ve seen anyway.

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Dennis Kennedy:  We’ve also seen there’s this really interesting, and maybe not in a good way, but an interesting variable and I think you saw this with anonymous, and other groups in especially in corporate attacks that, you get these loose confederations or groups that will attack things. The example you gave about the railroad system, that to me seemed like, that came from a third party that was really interested in causing some difficulties, and was not associated with either the countries involved. So, then you sort of the overlay of saying, “Here’s somebody who has access to these tools, and they start using it, and then you get into that weird situation of like, “Who’s doing what? Is somebody being blamed for something because it’s made to look like they’re involved. So, it’s really interesting. 

I got to tell you Tom, in the recent times, I just been thinking a lot about how little it took? What a small event caused World War I, but, it’s kind of interesting, and like I said, not in a good way of how many different dimensions there can be in the cyberworld, but I guess, we should bring it back to our audience, and think about, we can we can all think of ways that will affect us. The main way could be that we’re going like, “Hey why isn’t honest the water turning on this morning? Why is the internet down today? Or something like that, because that’s going to be the nature of an infrastructure attack. 

But the trouble is, Tom I think that law firms have been known as a “weak link” in the security system for years. I mean, the FBI has been warning law firms about being a weak link for at least 10 years, maybe longer, but one of the places that we would want to start beefing up our defenses?

Tom Mighell:  Well, I want to say, I want to come back real quick to what you said, and I will say that, if I’m scared about something right now. I was listening to The Cyber Law podcast, which by the way, if you don’t listen to it, it’s a great podcast. There are a lot of good people talking about the latest in cyber law, which includes cybersecurity, and there was someone there who mentioned the fact that, right now, there are 80,000 water systems nationwide. That’s 80,000 potential places that could be attacked, and water systems are one of the least funded or they are the lowest priority in getting funding for these types of things.

Tom Mighell:  So, if I’m going to be scared, I’m going to be probably less scared about a law firm getting attacked, and more scared about my water system getting attacked. But that said, what can we do? What are the steps that you can do? Gee, a lot of these sound familiar. A lot of these sounds like things that we’ve talked about in the past.

If you go to the CISA website, they talk about a lot of things that you can do; you know one, make sure that remote access to your organization requires Multi-Factor Authentication. That’s accessed by users, by vendors, by administrators. You’re making sure like, Dennis said, “You want to make sure all your software is up to date.” Because that most common attack vector is going to be out-of-date software. It is easy. It’s an easy target, and it’s easy to exploit. 

The rule about ports. Ports that aren’t essential for business need to be disabled. If you’re using Cloud services, what’s interesting is that CISA has some guidance on safeguards that you need to take including specific recommendations for Microsoft 365. But what’s interesting about it for me is, for those of you “Cloud-doubters: who are out there, this is not saying, “Don’t use the Cloud.”  It’s just saying, “Be careful.”  Make sure your take the right precautions. It’s not saying that Microsoft 365 is safe. It’s saying, “In Microsoft 365, enable these features in order to protect yourself.”

And, you know, if you’re not sure, hire somebody to come to a vulnerability test. What I didn’t know until I was looking at this, was that CISA offers its own cybersecurity assessment at no charge. So, if that’s an option, why not take a look at it, but if you’re not sure, whether your firm or your company, or whatever, is up to snuff then, see if somebody come in and make a test because we’re talking about things on a high level, on a state level and attacking the infrastructure. 

But some of these attacks can start to ask the lowest level. So, I don’t know. I feel a little bit like, we’re talking about “planting your victory garden” in World War II. But it’s all doing our part to keep safe, and to protect our country. And even though you may be an unlikely source, it’s possible that you could wind up being part of it if you’re not taking care of yourself. It just makes sense to take these precautions.

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Dennis Kennedy:  I would say that, you just need to look. It’s time to take a fresh look at your risk assessment and management practices, and say, “Okay, given what’s going on, am I making decisions about risk in how I’m protecting myself at a level that’s appropriate?” Because I’d say, if you go and you read that CISA is “shields up” site, if you haven’t read it before, you’re going to have a different feeling about your risk, than you had before you read that article. I guarantee that. 

So, I think these days, guys, we got to monitor the news, know that CISA, and those other resources are available, and other people be working on things at the same time. I think you got to bump up a notch or two, on your security efforts. And I would say, the big one for me is back up, because that’s going to help you on ransomware. It’s going to help you on other things. I’m actually, Tom believes it or not, I’m adding even a few more layers to my backup.

Dennis Kennedy:  So, I think those are the things you want to look at, and then sort of managing that approach to say, “Is there something driving you? Do your clients want you to do more? Do you have legal requirements to do more? And then, I think it’s going to be that trade-off Tom, that you sort of alluded to like, “Where are we on that line between how prepared do we want to be versus people thinking that were preppers?”

Tom Mighell:  I agree. So, along those lines, the only thing that I’ll say to add to that is, it’s not enough to have all of those things in place. You need to test it too. It’s not enough to have layers of backup that Dennis is talking about. You need to make sure that backup is tested so that the first time you use it, is not after there has been something bad that happened. So, we talked about this all the time, but it’s not enough to just make sure that “the moat is full, and that the gates are up around the castle.” You need to be able to respond quickly, and you need to be able to make sure that you can get up and running in case there is an issue. So, I think all of that applies as well.

Dennis Kennedy:  So, Tom, how on the scale one to ten, how worried are you these days? 

Tom Mighell:  I am of imminent cyberwarfare, well, as of the day that we were recording this, there’s there is news at least of a potential resolution, but I’m going to stick with about a seven or eight out of 10 of imminent cyberwarfare. Of something happening to the United States, I’m more like, a five or six. How are you feeling, Dennis?

Dennis Kennedy:  I guess, I have more concern over something unexpected by somebody sort of, I’d hate to say, “Like, those meddling hackers, but sort of something accidental to happen is my big concern.” I sort of think, at some point “that cooler heads will prevail.” But I have a pretty high rating and I think that, you know, as Warren Buffett says, “It’s better to prepare than to predict.” I’m on the preparation side, and as we were talking about, if the notion of cyberwar time as the Talking Heads song says, “This ain’t no party, this ain’t no disco, and this is no time for fooling around right now.”

Tom Mighell:  And with that, we’re going to move on. One thing that I did forget to mention is, if you are interested in keeping up with these types of stories, I found a great page on the internet. We’ll link to I in the show notes on what we call, “The Top 30 Cybersecurity Experts You Should Follow.” It’s got people from all over the country, or all over the world who are talking about cybersecurity on Twitter, YouTube, other places. Definitely some good names in there. Pleas take a look, and make sure you’re keeping up with that.

All right, before we move on to our next segment, let’s take a quick break for a message from our sponsor.

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Tom Mighell:  Now, let’s get back to The Kennedy and Mighell Report. I’m Tom Mile, 

Dennis Kennedy:  And I’m Dennis Kennedy. It’s time for another segment of “Hot or Not.” We pick a tech topic in the news and decide whether it is hot or not. We’ll probably not agree in our assessments, but it’s a fun way to hear our perspectives on tech topics.

I’ve been reading way more audio books these days, and I guess, we need to come up with a word for reading audiobooks, the more I think about it. But I’ve noticed that I have a backlog of articles and other written materials that just keeps growing. And so, it got me wondering whether the current generation of text-to-speech tools might make it possible to catch up on reading, by listening to everything. Tom, what’s your thermometer reading on this one? 

Tom Mighell:  Well, for me personally, it’s fairly cool. Not hot about this one. I have enough things to listen to already, and I don’t need software tools who are taking more text and reading to me. That would just be overload for me personally. I could see two areas where I think text-to-speech is, and can be pretty hot. I think the first area clearly is in accessibility. You can get Microsoft Word to read to you. You can get Windows to read to you. You can get your Mac to read to you, which I think is a great feature for people with vision problems, with limited vision issues. 

I think the tool seem to work pretty well for what they do. The quality of the reading tends to be pretty monotone without a lot of inflection. So, you’re getting what you pay for. I would hope that we’re going to see some AI tools to be able, and I think some of these have AI tools that will give more of a human sounding voice to this. But the quality is good. I mean, they’re just reading text, and that that’s an area where I find that technology has done a pretty good job of getting you what you need. 

Tom Mighell:  And then another area that I’m seeing that would or possibly be of more use to me, if I didn’t already have too many things to listen to are, the read-it-later apps. Like Pocket and InstaPaper. If you don’t want to read an article, you can actually have the app. read it back to you. The apps all have that functionality. Likewise, WordPress actually has a tool that will convert your blogpost into a podcast. I’m not sure if it works the other way where you could convert somebody else’s post into a podcast. But we are seeing more and more articles or seeing things like, you can turn your text into a podcast, so that people can listen to it. 

I think these tools are ideal for people who don’t have time to read or if you are out, and about a lot, if you need something while you’re working out, walking the dog, cleaning, the house, doing something where you can listen at the same time. I think it’s great. I’m not really into it. So, it’s cool for me, but I could see text-to-speech heating up for a lot of people, Dennis.

Dennis Kennedy:  Yeah, I’m kind of on the warmish-side for a couple of reasons, and so, and it sort of depends on how you use things. But I was always told, and you get this advice a lot. If you’re a writer that you want to read what you’ve written. So, you hear it, and that that helps you get it to the best that it can be. So, if you could do text-to-speech there, that’s kind of an interesting approach. 

Then also I think there are a number of times where you say, “I can’t really read.” Like, I’m driving or whatever, and if I took stuff that was printed material and it just was read to me while I was in the car, that could be really helpful because I get caught up on those articles and things.

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To me the key in that has to be that I can speed up the playback to at least one and a half pace, because I think one of the things about audiobooks is that I actually do read faster than the books can be read to me, sometimes even in an accelerated speed. So, it’s sort of takes me longer to go through books, but it actually in certain circumstances, it’s just a better way to do that.

So, I think it’s warming up, and I think it’s just one of those things that, as you alluded to Tom. I think if we take a look at the accessibility features that are built into our programs these days and services these days, we could find some things that actually are really personalized things, and make them useful for all of us in certain settings. So, I’m just intrigued by this. Like I said, I sort of bump it up to the warm level. I don’t know that. It’s hot, but I think it’s interesting area for people to look at, especially people are already reading a lot of audiobooks. 

Now, it’s time for parting shots that Onetip website or observation you can start to use a second when this podcast ends. Tom, take it away.

Tom Mighell:  My parting shot this time comes under the category of, “I can’t believe I missed this for the past two years, and I also can’t believe I’m giving a tip about Facebook, which I’m generally not a fan of these days.” But I recently discovered for particular reasons that Facebook has a Facebook Messenger vanish mode, which means that, if you want your messages in Facebook Messenger to disappear, you can configure that to happen. And you can configure that based on the timeframe. So, you can say that, “Five seconds after someone views my message. I want it to go away, 5, 10, 20, 30 seconds, 5 minutes.” You can set the timeframe by which your message goes away, and if someone tries to take a screenshot of what you send them, it actually sends you a notification to let you know. So, it’s smart. If someone tries to do something, it will at least alert you that someone’s doing that, and it allows you to block them if you don’t feel safe when you’re talking to someone. 

But I’ve come as part of this as part of learning that people that I know need to have some sensitive conversations, and are struggling to find a good way to have those conversations without getting on the phone, without using other services that people could find out about, and not that they’re doing anything illegal, but that they are just trying to have some confidential conversations. And I think this is a reasonable tool to be able to use that even though it’s Facebook, and I was interested to find that it existed, Dennis.

Dennis Kennedy:  Yes, it’s interesting as you start to think about that is how. How we can have confidential conversations given some of the tools we have with their ability to capture and store everything, and how lawyers need to think that through with certain clients, and using certain tools. So, definitely something that people should look into if they’re using Facebook Messenger just to understand it. 

So, I saw this article on, “How To Geek” by Tim Brooks called, “How To Clean a Laptop Screen.” I said, “Well, that’s interesting and that’s something that I don’t probably don’t think about often enough.” And the same day, the sun through the window caught my laptop screen, and it was – 

Tom Mighell:  It was hideous, wasn’t it?  It was terrible, wasn’t it?

Dennis Kennedy:  Yeah.

Tom Mighell:  I have the same thing.

Dennis Kennedy:  It’s quite amazing how dirty it was. So, there’s no big mystery like great secrets unveiled in this article, but it does give you some recommendations for like cloth that this person has found that are useful, and sprays and stuff. But it’s mainly a reminder that it’s worthwhile to clean those screens every now and then, because like I said, with the sun shining through the window on that, I was like, “Okay, no wonder I have trouble reading some the things on the screen.”

So, there’s that, and then as we were talking about The Talking Heads, and it’s always a good day to listen to The Talking Head’s song, “Life in Wartime.” So, let me add that as a parting shot as well.

Tom Mighell:  And so, that wraps it up for this edition of the The Kennedy-Mighell Report. Thanks for joining us on the podcast. You can find show notes for this episode on the Legal Talk network’s page for the show.

(00:35:03)

If you like what you hear, please subscribe to our podcast in iTunes or on the Legal Talk network site where you can find archives of all of our previous episodes along with transcripts. If you would like to get in touch with us, remember, you can reach out to us on Twitter, on LinkedIn. We’d love to get voicemails, so we can feature your questions or comments for our B segment. That number is, (720) 441-6820.

So, until the next podcast, I’m Tom Mighell.

Dennis Kennedy:  And I’m Dennis Kennedy, and you’ve been listening to The Kennedy-Mighell Report. A podcast on legal technology with an internet focus. If you like what you heard today, please rate us in Apple podcast, and we’ll see you next time for another episode with the Kennedy-Mighell Report on the Legal Talk Network.

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Outro: Thanks for listening to the Kennedy Mighell Report. Check out Dennis and Tom’s book, “The Lawyer’s Guide to Collaboration Tools and Technologies: Smart ways to Work Together”  From ABA books or Amazon. And join us every other week for another edition of The Kennedy-Mighell Report, only on the Legal Talk Network.

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Podcast transcription by Tech-Synergy.com

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