Eureka! — The Beginnings of Dennis & Tom’s Second Brain Project

Episode Notes

Transcript

The Kennedy-Mighell Report

Eureka! – The Beginnings of Dennis & Tom’s Second Brain Project

06/19/2020

[Music]

Intro: Web 2.0, Innovation, Trend, Collaboration, Software, Metadata… Got the world turning as fast as it can, hear how technology can help, legally speaking with two of the top legal technology experts, authors and lawyers, Dennis Kennedy and Tom Mighell. Welcome to The Kennedy-Mighell Report here on the Legal Talk Network.

[Music]

Dennis Kennedy: And welcome to Episode 263 of The Kennedy-Mighell Report. I am Dennis Kennedy in Ann Arbor.

Tom Mighell: And I am Tom Mighell in Dallas. Before we get started we would like to thank our sponsors.

Dennis Kennedy: First of all, we would like to thank Colonial Surety Company Bonds & Insurance for bringing you this podcast. Whatever court bond you need get a quote and purchase online at colonialsurety.com/podcast.

Tom Mighell: And we would like to thank ServeNow, a nationwide network of trusted, prescreened process servers, work with the most professional process servers who have experience with high-volume serves, embrace technology, and understand the litigation process. Visit serve-now.com to learn more.

Dennis Kennedy: And we of course want to mention that the second edition of our book, ‘The Lawyer’s Guide to Collaboration Tools and Technologies’ is available on Amazon. Everyone agrees these days that collaboration is essential, but now even more than ever knowing the right tools will make all the difference.

As I like to say at the start of our recent podcasts, what a difference another week or two makes in 2020. In our last episode we shared some of our best tips on capturing, sharing and developing your best new ideas, in this episode we want to talk very preliminarily at this point about a new project Tom and I want to start in a category some people are calling the Second Brain. That should grab your attention.

Tom, what’s all on our agenda for this episode?

Tom Mighell: Well Dennis, in this edition of The Kennedy-Mighell Report we will indeed be discussing our tentative steps toward a Second Brain Project which we are going to keep a little bit mysterious for just a little bit longer.

In our second segment we will again answer another question from our voicemail box, yay, leave your questions for us; remember we have got a voicemail box, we love to hear your questions, we love to answer them in our second segment. That phone number is 720-441-6820.

And as usual we will finish up with our parting shots, that one tip, website, or observation that you can start to use the second that this podcast is over.

But first up our mad scientist plans to create a second brain. To be honest, second brain is frankly just another term that we have talked about for a long time on this podcast and it’s what I consider to be the topic of personal knowledge management. How can you capture all the information that comes in; articles, notes, pictures, documents, websites, screenshots, diagrams, anything that you get during the day that you think might be useful to our future selves, how can we capture it, how can we organize it, how can we share that information so it actually is useful to us in the future.

Probably a lot more than I can say, probably more that we are going to say here coming up, but Dennis, does that about capture the concept of the Second Brain or is there more to start out with.

Dennis Kennedy: Yeah, I think it really does. I mean my notes here were that you want to take this information that you are gathering and sometimes formally gathering or sometimes it just gathers for you, you want to make it findable and actionable in the way that you need it and when you need it.

And then I think that what we are also looking at is how can we collaborate on this, so how can we share this information we have so when we are working on projects with others how can we take advantage of those things that we kept for each other for this projects so it could be pulled into those projects. And so I think that’s a key thing.

I will note Tom that I found a published article of mine from 2003 on personal knowledge management and that actually might not have been my first article on the topic, so it’s something I have been thinking about for a long time, but I have to admit Tom, there is no questioning that personal knowledge management is my biggest tech fail ever.

Tom Mighell: Well, I think it’s a lot of people’s tech fail, because there is just no time to do it, there are so many different ways to do it and it’s one of those things that always takes a backseat to other things that are our bigger priority. So I think this is an issue for a lot of people and hopefully we will get some interest in following kind of the journey that you and I are about to kind of start taking.

(00:04:52)

But this is going to be one area where I am going to maybe disagree slightly with you on this approach, because I think that at its heart you talk about collaboration and I am excited to work through these issues and talk about tools and methods and processes and all of these things, but I think that at its heart the concept of the Second Brain that we are talking about is personal to you, what information is important to you may not be important to me. What tools may work for you might not work for me.

So while I think we are going to go through this experiment together, I think it’s possible that your and my results will be very much different from the other once we come out at the other end of this.

Dennis Kennedy: Yeah, and I actually do agree with that, that it has to be very personal, but I think the portability part of it, so you say can I expose and share what I need with somebody that I am collaborating with is one of the most important features of whatever as a system that you put into place.

Tom Mighell: Agree, yeah.

Dennis Kennedy: And I guess it’s — I think that we have tried a ton of stuff over the years and I mean we will talk about some of them and I have sort of been thinking that it’s sort of like the best of times, worst of times to do this. So I think on the one hand it’s harder than it’s ever been because there are so many different places information comes into us, that we store it, that we capture it, we don’t know exactly how we are going to use something and we just have information in all sorts of different containers and just sorting them out is really difficult and it has been I would say for at least 20 years.

And so on the one hand I think it’s harder and I don’t know Tom, we might just like list some of the places that you and I have shared notes and ideas over the years. I know now we are trying to centralize a bit on Microsoft Teams, but we are sort of like in the early stages of that, but I was just thinking there is — we have stuff scattered all over the place, don’t we?

Tom Mighell: Well, do we? I mean I was trying to think about it, there was one point in time where we used Google Wave I think, long ago, and that was what we thought was going to be the collaboration tool of the future, and then it died a very untimely death.

We spent a lot of time in Google Docs. We still have stored some things in Google Docs.

There was a period of time I think where we might have shared Evernote Notebooks in the past and looked at those. As part of the Teams experiment we are probably using OneNote to some extent to share information.

What am I missing? Those to me and the Teams that we are working on right now — oh, I am sorry, Slack, I missed that we spent a lot of time, but I wouldn’t say that there is a lot of stuff in Slack other than our conversations. I mean I think that — and maybe some of our conversation stuff is useful to have, having it searchable is good, but frankly that is not a small list of places for us to have put content over the years.

Dennis Kennedy: Well, let me probably double up the number for you there. So you have left out the big one, because we don’t use it very much anymore and that’s email.

Tom Mighell: Email, what?

Dennis Kennedy: There is years and years and years of email. Not to throw dirt on Google again, but Google Reader that we had this period of time where we actually — I could subscribe to some of the things that you were looking at, that was kind of like a nice feed that I had.

Tom Mighell: I don’t even remember that.

Dennis Kennedy: We have done bookmark sharing, we have done — we tried Scrivener, like you said different Google Docs, we have done — OneNote we have played with. So I think there is just a bunch of things out there.

So I will say two things. One, these things are in a lot of different places and it’s super easy to forget these days where it was. So even in Teams, because we have like a chat thing and different channels and so the search then becomes important. So there is a lot going on.

Bo but I am not — I don’t really feel daunted that much, because I think that technology is changing and I sort of think that now might be the best time ever to try this, and so what I am going to do is that I am going to make that assertion and before I tell you why I think that, I am going to see if you agree with me.

Tom Mighell: Agree that now is the best time ever?

Dennis Kennedy: Yes.

(00:09:52)

Tom Mighell: Well, now you have caught me off guard with that question. I think that — I mean I think that dealing with this issue that every time is the best time ever. I mean I don’t know what particular reasoning you have at this point in time to say that now other than the fact that we are at home, we have the time, there are opportunities now that maybe haven’t existed the same way that they have existed in the past, but this has been something I have been trying to do for a long time. So for me it’s always the best time to do it.

Dennis Kennedy: Well, so for me I think there are a couple of things. So I think that there really is the ability to start to pull different things together. We are starting to see more of that, where you can settle on some standard platforms and pull things into it.

I think we are starting to get to the point where both search and as they like to call it a little bit of AI can help us, and it’s just that thing of cloud, powerful computers, bandwidth, all those sorts of things I think are really coming together.

So I see the potential of this over time and it’s like you said, the best time to start on this would have been 20 years ago, the second best time is now. So it’s really intriguing and I am glad that you brought this idea up, which doesn’t necessarily mean that it’s going to be easier for us, but I think we are just starting.

And I like the idea that we have because I think if we figure this out for you and me together on the sharing and collaboration then that will make it easier for us to share with other people that we collaborate with in the future and we will really learn a lot from that.

Tom Mighell: Well, I think that all of the reasons that you say that now is the best time are also arguments for why a year from now is an even better time because all the stuff is going to even be better a year from now, and two years from now it will be even better than that and AI will improve and there will be even more tools.

So I think that what’s interesting is that there are tools now that 20 years ago didn’t exist, that there are ways and processes of doing this that we didn’t know about before which make this the best time, but I just think it’s going to continue to get better. I think that there will be more and more options. What worries me about that is whether or not developing a Second Brain, whether you go all-in on what you are doing and then a year from now something even better comes out and you have to change your whole concept or is there an idea that we should be future proofing our Second Brain so that no matter what we use in the future, it’s okay. It’s something that we can adapt to easily.

I think that those are things we need to think about, because even though this may be the best time ever, it might not be the best time in two years because there might be even better things to do that we could have done a whole lot easier two years from now. So I think we are going to need to build that into our thinking when we are deciding how we are going to go about doing this.

Dennis Kennedy: Right. And even though you say that Tom, I would say that if we were working on a project, whether it be a book project or whatever we are doing and you wanted me to share information with you and all of that, I said oh wait Tom, in two years it will be even better, that’s not going to be an acceptable answer for you.

Tom Mighell: No, but you and I are thinking about still — you still are coming at this from a collaboration standpoint and for me collaboration is a side benefit of having a Second Brain. It’s a feature and not the showcase. The primary purpose for me is I want to have a centralized location or locations where I can put all the information. All the preliminary reading and research and thinking that I have been doing about this suggests that if it’s not in one or very few places then it’s not successful and that doesn’t necessarily mean that it will be successful at collaborating.

And so maybe this is a good time to ask what are we hiring that Second Brain to do because I may have a different purpose for it than what you are thinking of hiring your Second Brain to do.

So, why don’t you get started on that and then I will tell you kind of what I am thinking.

Dennis Kennedy: Yeah. So I think that there is a lot of truth in that. So I think that for me I just realized I have this stuff scattered all over the place so there is a lot of ideas, there is drafts of articles, there is articles, there is video, there is audio, there is stuff we have done for the podcast, other podcasts I have done and I am just seeing it really hard to access what I want. I have tweets of other people that I like that I would like to capture. There are bookmarks so we have started with a new bookmark tool that is shareable.

(00:15:01)

So I say here is all this stuff and there will come a time when I need to do a presentation, need to do a book, need to do an article and I would just like to pull all that stuff together. So unlike what you were saying is that I do not want to have to spend time tagging, categorizing, putting stuff in one place, what I want is for that to happen seamlessly for me. And that’s sort of my goal when I think about tools.

So hiring the Second Brain is, as you say, is to capture this stuff in a way that’s useable and by that I mean findable and actionable, and even if there is chaos underneath that, my experience of that is something that’s really friendly and helpful for me to get exactly what it is that I want and I would love to have the technology do the stuff that I am not great at, which is going to be tagging, categorizing and that sort of thing.

Tom Mighell: So my approach to this is I think a little bit different than pure knowledge management. I think I am going to want to use it for many of the same reasons that you do, but the way that it was put to me I thought that was really persuasive was having a place where all of your future ideas are waiting for you I think is probably the way that I would put it.

I was listening to a podcast that was talking about this and the way that they described it was talking about planning a wedding, that rather than spend months and months agonizing over decisions for a wedding, they sat down between the two of them, because they both were keeping Second Brains, they opened up their wherever they were keeping their Second Brains and they found all the ideas they had been capturing over the past couple of years; as they saw things, they would see something here and something there and said you know what, in case I ever get married this would be really cool.

And they claim anyway, it felt kind of smug to me and I kind of was jealous that you could do this, but they claimed that within a few hours they were able to completely plan out their wedding and decide what it would look like rather than agonize over it.

And I like the concept. I am still skeptical of the ability to do that, but I like the concept of having an idea about something and wanting to bring that idea to fruition and realizing that I have been preparing my future self for that idea by storing all this information up over time.

Dennis Kennedy: Yeah, so there is a lot in what you said there, because I think that’s one of the things that when I say I would like things to happen kind of in the unseen world of the technology, just able to say oh, these things are related to each other, here are some suggestions, surface these things, map things out, that sort of thing.

So speaking of maps, we have talked a little bit about the Value Proposition Canvas, which is something — simple tool that I like. So if we are starting to figure out what it is that we are hiring the Second Brain to do for us, sometimes called the job to be done, then the Value Proposition Canvas I think helps us because we say, if we successfully create the Second Brain, what gains do we achieve and if we successfully create the Second Brain, what pains do we either eliminate or alleviate.

And I think this is where the approach that we take will start to diverge a bit. So I think you can probably hear what I am saying is that I want to take the stuff that I have captured and then when I am creating something new, roll it to the top, show me some connections, bring everything together so I can use it and then also so I just don’t reinvent the wheel of stuff that I have either already done or already have. And that could be things like why did I do a new version of — why did I do a slide on this when I already have PowerPoint slides on the same topic, so there is that.

And then I would say the pain I want to alleviate is just a sort of waste I feel. I just feel like there is this chaos there and there should be, when I think about my hard drive and my stuff, all the different cloud services, why can’t I bring this together in a way that’s useful to me. And so those are some of the things as I look at how I do that and that will start to bring me toward it and take the first steps and then I realized that it’s going to require multiple iterations for me.

(00:20:08)

So I don’t know if that’s similar to your thinking, Tom, but that’s when I use the Value Proposition Canvas, that’s sort of how I start to organize myself.

Tom Mighell: No, I think it is. I think of the same thing, and maybe I get there in a different way than you do, but I think that what I’m looking at — and I think that maybe we’re going to talk about this more in future episodes and so we’re probably going to talk about what our requirements are once we get past that and figure out how that happens. But as I am starting to take some first steps with this, one of my temptations is to look past the process, to look past what those goals are as part of the Value Proposition Canvas and get excited in the tool.

I tend to want to say, I need to try new technology because that’s where I live in the shiny-shiny and I want to try something new, and I don’t really think it through and I start working on it and I either burn out quickly, or it’s not what I want, or something happens, and so, I think I need to be more deliberate about that, think about it a little bit more.

So my first steps that I’m doing right now, to me it’s not just about capturing that tweet or making sure that I know what PowerPoint slide that I’ve got. I probably don’t read as much as you, but I do read quite a bit and I would tell you I probably don’t retain much of what I read, and part of my preliminary reading on all of this, and my research has indicated that the ability to capture notes in books, and articles, and blog-posts and things like that is incredibly important because it gets you to a point where the argument is that whatever is in that book or that article, you’re only going to need to capture certain ideas out of it and so there is a concept that we’ll be talking about overtime that’s called Progressive Summarization where you highlight information that you think is important and then at a certain point in time you go back to that highlighted information and you begin to summarize it in a way that makes sense to you.

Take out of that what’s important to you and then get rid of the notes that you’ve made, get rid of the highlights that you’ve had, get rid of the book that you read and then you’ve distilled it to what’s important to you so that you’ve got that information in whatever your second brain winds up being, and so I think to be successful at this, one of the things I think is obvious is that we have to go back to certain productivity principles, and I don’t know if that’s similar to getting things done or other types of methods, but being able to capture the information, have it all coming into a single point of focus or if not single, very limited places that it’s being captured, maintain it in the right place or places rather than having it all over the place, being able to organize it, being able to get back to it and being able to maintain it is going to be I think critically important to kind of where I’m starting out.

What are you doing, Dennis, what are you thinking about as your first steps on getting this going?

Dennis Kennedy: Well, I’m trying to align with where you are, and sort of for us to work on this together, it’s going to be our typical thing, and you’ve identified it as that you’re ready to go like, okay, it’s going to be Teams, oh it’s going to be this, oh it changed my mind on that. It was going to be raindrop.io, now it’s going to be something else.

So we always have to do that because I’m a little bit not as quick to move to new things, and then the other thing that is always an issue for us is I would say that you — and this is everybody who kind of works with me, but I can be a little bit difficult to work with because I don’t like to stay in lanes and I kind of — so when I think of second brain, I say, oh, I just don’t want to have to go remember like, oh, this needs to go in this, this needs to be this. I just want to be able to say what I would like to have happened is, I create — wherever I create I store, and then it’s able to come together.

And so that way of thinking really brings the notion of export ability from one tool into something central and then pull it out in a way that’s most useful to me, and I think that’s going to carry through to collaboration and sharing.

So I’m okay, I think there’s a lot of different tools to start. We’ve talked about a few that we’re going to start with and I suspect we’re going to see a lot of Microsoft 365 as a base of what we’re doing and some other things like that.

(00:25:05)

But I think for me, it’s that notion of that I want to create things wherever I am and then be able to pull it back together ideally, in a fairly automatic way.

So I think that’s where we are, Tom, with this. So we’ll keep our listeners posted, share what we learn and we always welcome feedback and ideas. But on this one, I don’t know, if we’ll promise, we’ll adapt to all these suggestions and ideas that people give us because I think we have a strong start of where we’re headed.

Tom Mighell: I don’t have anything more to add to that. I think stay tuned. I think we’re both excited on where we’re headed and we will keep you up-to-date in future podcasts.

All right, before we move on to our next segment, let’s take a quick break for messages from our sponsors.

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Tom Mighell: And now let’s get back to The Kennedy-Mighell Report. I am Tom Mighell.

Dennis Kennedy: And I am Dennis Kennedy.

We love to get questions from you, our listeners at our voicemail line at (720)441-6820 and in this episode, friend of the podcast and one of the true Internet pioneers among lawyers, Jerry Lawson in Virginia, has a question for us about something often called Security Theater. Let’s hear his question.

Jerry Lawson: Hi. This is Jerry Lawson. I got to tell you, I love the podcast and I respect you guys for doing it so long and maintaining such a high quality level. I have one topic I thought you might want to address in your COVID-19 series. Security Theater, this is a concept that is a favorite of the IT consultant Bruce Schneier and I’ve been seeing in some examples of it this lately.

For example, the Property Management Company that hosts a lot of Washington, DC law firms is telling law firms that they should check the temperatures of their employees when they come to work in the morning and also check their temperatures when they return from the lunch.

Now some people may have the knee-jerk reaction then Security Theater has got to be bad. The thought occurred to me that maybe sometimes Security Theater could be good and I wondered if you might be interested in identifying for your audience the ways in which they can detect Security Theater and also decide when it’s good and when it’s bad.

Thanks, bye.

Dennis Kennedy: Tom, would you start us off?

Tom Mighell: Well, so first let’s make sure that — I mean Jerry talks about it a little bit, but let’s fully define what Security Theater is. As Jerry mentioned, the term was first coined by Security Expert Bruce Schneier back in 2009. It refers to security measures that make us feel more secure but don’t actually improve our security, and I think it recognizes that security is two different things. It’s both a feeling and it’s also a reality, and those two things can be very different sometimes, and where I think it’s more visible is actually around physical security.

So, for example, you may not know this or not, I didn’t know it until we started talking about this. You’re now allowed to travel on a plane with up to 12 ounces of hand-sanitizer, where the previous rule was three ounces.

Some would argue that the previous rule of three ounces was security theater, it was put in place because someone once was able to create an explosive with liquid, so let’s put this rule in place, but now the fact that we can carry 12 ounces of hand-sanitizer kind of demonstrates that the prior rule was theater.

I think that most valid security theater examples apply to the physical world, but it’s also possible to apply to the tech or cyber world as well.

(00:30:04)

There are a couple of examples that are interesting but I have got to be honest with you, and you too Jerry, I am not sure I completely agree that they qualify as theater. So here are some examples that I have come up with that I have done research on.

Some would argue that antivirus software is just theater because it does very little to stop malware or ransomware; true, but it stops viruses, right? So it’s only — I think that its security theater is theater as long as it gives people like false sense of security and I think that antivirus does what it’s supposed to do, it may not do more but it’s not expected to do more.

Our firewalls security theater, some would argue that firewalls are constantly getting breached at any company they are always under attack, but as a first line of defense are they better than nothing? I would say, probably yes.

Some would argue that passwords are security theater because most people don’t use password managers, they create very simple easy-to-hack passwords. So is the theater that these people are believing that they are secure or do they know better but they are really lazy?

Security training may actually be a good example of security theater where they tell you the rules about it but they don’t actually test your knowledge, they don’t test your awareness, they don’t do a good job of sending you phishing emails to see if you are really gullible enough to click on that link. So that may be one area where it happens.

I would say that another instance where I do think it exists is — and it’s more often than not is when users at a company or a firm ask IT for a particular feature and they are told automatically no and security is the main issue. I feel like that’s an opportunity for security theater, where IT can turn things down rather than figure out a secure way to give users the feature that they want.

So that’s my long-winded way of saying in a cyber world there’s a lot of aspects that don’t necessarily work as advertised but I am also not convinced that I would call them “theater” either, I feel like it’s part of a bigger picture, and while maybe users don’t fully understand that whole picture these small pieces are still doing their part to keep people secure. So that’s kind of my long-rambling way of thinking about it.

Dennis, feel free to disagree with me if there are instances that I am not thinking about.

Dennis Kennedy: Well, I do agree with you and so I have two quick examples. So one is, I think that there are some things that people do that they have the absolute effect. So I guess a lot of places have this big security thing where you have to change password every 30 days and people have generally found that that kind of forces people to go to easier and simpler password. So it works against you.

I think the other thing is where you are doing these security things and you send the wrong signal to people and that wrong signal can be a number of different things. But I remember once talked to somebody who said that they as security consultant had gone into a company and they did the thing with the spear phishing email test. It is pretty popular these days. And when the first time they did it they found that let’s say the 10 people on the Executive Committee including the CEO as I recall failed that test.

So they did a little training for all the employees, of course, not necessarily all the executives and then they tried it again in a few months and I think they even kind of warned people that might be coming and all the executives failed again or maybe all of them but one. And I said how many people got fired and they said, that’s a good point, nobody did. I go like, as an employee then why would I care about security like if you follow the model?

So I think sometimes you are doing this stuff and if there’s no consequence, we as humans learn from this stuff and we either say, oh, there’s one rule for the bosses and there’s one rule for the rest of us or we draw these conclusions, and I think so you have this thing where either you are doing something that you say is security that either clearly doesn’t work or that it actually incentivizes bad behavior. So that’s what I would add to the thought.

So it’s an interesting question and as people design their security approaches this is something that you definitely want to keep in mind, as you said Bruce Schneier has always done a great job of writing and talking about that.

So now it’s time for our parting shots, that one-tip website or observation you can use the second this podcast ends; Tom, take it away.

Tom Mighell: So I have been a — we talked about Google Reader earlier, once Google Reader shut down I moved over to Feedly.

(00:35:01)

And I know a lot of people have been using Feedly as their news reader for some years now. I like Feedly quite a bit, but lately I have noticed some comments and opinions and recommendations to look at another reader called Inoreader. And I have taken a look at it and the way that I have seen it described is that an Inoreader is more for power users or users who have specific customization preferences, saying that Feedly looks better but Inoreader works better. You can do things like have better customization, there’s more that you can do on the free tier rather than have to pay for it although there is a subscription where you get more features. There’s some automation, you can actually subscribe to email newsletters that come straight into in a reader and you can see them there. There are social features as well. It looks like a very interesting and compelling option or alternative to Feedly.

So if you are using Feedly, if you are tired of it, if you are looking for something new, if you haven’t used a news reader before, give Inoreader a try. There is a free version. There’s also a premium and a Pro plan is $4.17 a month, so $48 a year compared to a little bit more than three times that for Feedly. So cheaper and I am going to give it a try. Inoreader or Inoreader, I wish I knew how to pronounce it. Dennis.

Dennis Kennedy: Yeah, Tom, when I had looked at this I was ready to buy the Pro version right-away, so that could be part of our second brain stack.

Two things, so one is just a reminder, and Tom, you and I were having this conversation that as we see everything happening in the world COVID, Black Lives Matter, Economy, all this sort of stuff is changing, what are the things that we read, who we talk to, what we follow, and so I think my one-tip here is to really think about your own filter bubble or the echo chamber you live in these days and try to open things up. So that’s one thing.

And then we were talking about security theater. So I found this great online security guide on a website called makeuseof.com and it’s a hundredth — as they call it the Online Security Guide: 100+ Tips to Stay Safe Against Malware and Scams, believe me the number of malware and scams and other things going on is accelerating and will continue to do so as we go through everything that we are going through now, so can’t pay enough attention to security, and this is not a bad place to start.

Tom Mighell: And so that wraps it up for this edition of The Kennedy-Mighell Report. Thanks for joining us on the podcast. You can find notes for this episode on the Legal Talk Network’s page for our podcast.

If you like what you hear please subscribe to our podcast and iTunes or on the Legal Talk Network site where you can find archives of all of our previous podcasts along with transcripts.

If you would like to get in touch with us, please reach out to us on LinkedIn or leave us a voicemail. Remember, we have got — we love to hear your voicemails, we are at (720)441-6820.

So until the next podcast, I am Tom Mighell.

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Dennis Kennedy: And I am Dennis Kennedy and you have been listening to The Kennedy-Mighell Report, a podcast on legal technology with an Internet focus. If you liked what you heard today please rate us in Apple Podcasts and we will see you next time for another episode of The Kennedy-Mighell Report on the Legal Talk Network.

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Outro: Thanks for listening to The Kennedy-Mighell Report. Check out Dennis and Tom’s book, ‘The Lawyer’s Guide to Collaboration Tools and Technologies: Smart Ways to Work Together’ from ABA Books or Amazon, and join us every other week for another edition of The Kennedy-Mighell Report, only on the Legal Talk Network.

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