How can lawyers use the power of story? with Bridget Cook-Burch

Episode Notes

Transcript

[00:00:00] 

[00:00:27] Bridget: Well, hi Karen, this is Bridget Cooper Burch, and my clients called me the book whisperer. I have a talent and a secret sauce for being able to work with people and their. And so I love to be able to coach them to put it into a book, um, but not just page also stage so that they have a way of introducing themselves, talking about their stories, utilizing their conflicts and their victories over their lifetimes, to be able to garner more clients and to really be effective in life.

[00:00:58] And. 

[00:01:00] Karin: Oh, that’s a great intro. I feel like that really gave me such a good snapshot of the kind of work you do. And then also why it matters. It might matter to me if you, if I was someone who, you know, you are possibly talking to and how that could kind of fit into the things I’m looking for. So, um, that is a nice, easy segue into what we’re gonna talk about today.

[00:01:23] I feel like this is a topic that really is gonna be important for lawyers and, um, the audience, because. I think they have an idea of how they are meant to present information that is really different from the way that you talk about it. So without kind of, you know, giving it all away and, and starting with the spoiler.

[00:01:44] The, um, so the question we’re gonna talk about today is how can lawyers use the power of story? And I feel like there’s so many different avenues that this applies. You mentioned a couple of them in your introduction where you are just kind. Introducing yourself and getting more clients and really being more compelling.

[00:02:02] But where do you usually start with people when they, when they’re trying to figure out first of all, what their story is and, and why that would matter? 

[00:02:11] Bridget: Well, that’s a great question, Karen. I appreciate it. And, and, you know, everybody is on a different journey and so some people are. Finally finding their voices and learning to speak about their stories and who they are.

[00:02:25] Other people like attorneys have a tendency to be a bit more accomplished and practiced. And yet, at times I can still find that they’re only using maybe a 10th of the power of their story that is possible. So I think I’d like to focus on that is, uh, how our own stories. Can develop into something even greater because a lot of times attorneys will focus on, Hey, I’ve got these great skill sets.

[00:02:50] I can do these wonderful things with you. And I know how to, you know, bring, a courtroom down. But if they’re not getting clients, it is, they’re not using their own story effectively. And one of the things I found with attorneys who I have worked with and who have come to me is. often a dualling ego, if that makes sense, because there’s that confidence that is necessary in the courtroom and with clients.

[00:03:17] And then there is the part of them that doesn’t wish to be over boastful or, somehow arrogant because they know that sets clients off. And so oftentimes they’ll keep quiet about their stories. And so I’d love to bring up the premise that when you get very clear on your, why. Why are you doing this work?

[00:03:38] What called you to it? And when you, when you get down to it, of course it’s a lucrative business, but there is often a negative, or excuse me, a, a, um, a push of something that happened in your life. We call inciting incident. Right. Yeah. Yeah. So on the hero’s journey, this thing that says, no, this is where I deserve to be.

[00:03:59] And so for different types of attorneys and different litigation, it may have to do with something happened to someone that you care about or something that happened to you when you were a bit younger and you, you built a fire inside of you. And sometimes it may be something you read about someone else’s story, but there was a compelling element that said, I could do this work and I wanna do this work.

[00:04:23] Well, the thing is, if you downplay it, then your clients don’t recognize that purpose, that calling and they may go, well, you know, he or she is really good, but they might not feel it. It’s like a doctor having to have a really great bedside manner. Yeah. And so this is the place where attorneys I would focus on first is tell me why you got into this business and why have you chosen to stay here out of any industry that you’re obviously well accomplished?

[00:04:52] Brilliant. Talented. Why this? Yeah. And when they dig deep, then all of a sudden it’s like, Ooh, this is precisely why I got into this. And I haven’t been telling anybody about it. And then it turns the corner in their own personal. 

[00:05:09] Karin: And it seems like that really just kind of positions them in this point of differentiation too.

[00:05:13] So if a client is looking at a handful of different attorneys and they’re all just kind of talking about the same thing and not telling those stories, then it does seem like, well, they’re all the same. It’s just a transaction that all of these other things don’t matter. And so I just, you then go down to the lowest possible cost and you know, that’s not necessarily the right, um, result for those clients depending on what kind of work they’re looking for.

[00:05:42] Bridget: Exactly. Which would bring us to the next premise too, is that. The one point of differentiation is why you’re doing this and why you would wanna work with the clients because you would have a sense of compassion for where they are. But then the second thing would be this upper level of stories, which is your case.

[00:06:00] Reminds me a bit of. You know, and of course you can’t give away explicit details, but you can say this one particular case where, and then you tell the story of how you were able to, uh, shift the judge’s perspective or shift the jury’s perspective or, um, place a story in writing so compelling that there was, it was undeniable.

[00:06:24] What the outcome would be. That’s 

[00:06:26] Karin: yeah, that was a perfect transition. Cuz my next question was when do you talk about your own story? And then when do you talk about the stories of the work that you’ve done? So it’s really more the story of your client, but it’s also sort of your story because it’s your work.

[00:06:41] And so how do you balance those or do you integrate that or, you know, what’s, what’s the right approach with that? Well, I 

[00:06:48] Bridget: think the one thing that any doctor attorney, high level business person. Really gets to hone in on is also the, the story listening. So if you take enough time to quickly listen to your clients and understand their deepest need.

[00:07:07] Then you’re gonna say, okay, I’m gonna share this aspect of my story. And I’m gonna pick from, you know, 4,700 case files. These two stories that could relate to this particular client, because they will feel heard and listened to, which is as you know, one of the greatest differentiating factors, but it also means that what you’re picking and what you’re saying is relevant.

[00:07:29] And so I would start with your own story first because that emotion. When you’re sitting across from a prospective client on the phone or on zoom or in person, it comes through, there’s an energetic level that they can tell if you’re turned on and you care about them, they can tell if you’re turned off.

[00:07:48] And you’re just another number. It’s very evident. So. Listening and then sharing from that deeper level of your why, and then picking some stories that would serve your clients will almost guarantee that they stay your client. 

[00:08:04] Karin: Yeah, that’s so funny. I, I had, when you were talking, I had this visual of a woman I recently met at the park, um, in our neighborhood.

[00:08:13] And this may sound like a funny story initially, but she has one of these dogs that she got for protection. And it’s one of these, it’s not a German shepherd. It’s a. A, uh, Belgian malam wa, which I had never heard of before, but it’s like, it looks kind of like a German shepherd on steroids and, um, she got it for protection for a lot of reasons.

[00:08:33] And so she was talking about how she had to train with the dog and all these commands, and she could say the commands and they’re all in French because, um, the dogs come from Belgium , but she could say the command to bark or bite or attack. and if the dog didn’t sense that she meant it and could tell that she was stressed and I’m sure the dog could smell the, all those things.

[00:08:56] But if the dog couldn’t tell that she really meant it, she could say it all day long and it does, it wouldn’t matter. So she was telling the dog like bark at, at me when I was standing there and the dog, didn’t it. Didn’t it didn’t do it. Cuz she, the dog could tell. There was this other story where she was in a, you know, situation where she was stressed and she did mean it.

[00:09:14] And she told the dog and the dog instantly knew and responded. So in my mind, I’m picturing this dog, this like really highly intelligent creature for being able to pick up on those really fine. Um, Tuned kind of details from, from her owner, but the SA in the same way that person you’re talking to can really pick up on, like, do you really mean, do you, are you really telling me to bark or you, are you just kind of telling a story right now?

[00:09:42] Bridget: No, that’s a, that’s a good way to describe it. Are you really telling me to bark? Are you really telling me to pull out my wallet and be you. Or exactly or not. Yes. Yeah, 

[00:09:50] Karin: exactly. That story just like stuck with me so much, cuz I was like, that is such a first of all, it’s just kind of a cool thing and I have, it’s such a smart dog.

[00:09:58] Like it’s, it’s really amazing, but it really does, you know, you really do know. In your gut, when you are setting across from someone who cares about whatever your issue is, or if they’re just going through the Reto routine and they’re just kind of calculating how much money they can make off of you for whatever it is.

[00:10:17] If it’s, if you’re buying a car, if you know, whatever the, the situation might be. 

[00:10:21] Bridget: It’s true. You think about a realtor that might be dealing in multimillions of dollars as well, but you can tell, are they after just that commission? Or is there something greater compelling them? And it’s your job to, to actually assure them that there’s a greater force inside of you and a greater story and a greater good that you are seeking in conjunction with them.

[00:10:44] And so that they believe you. Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:10:47] Karin: So then I know you also work with people, not just on their story, but also on their speech. So if they are doing public speaking and things like that, how does that also relate to how you can convey and really get that audience engaged when you know, and being in a trial or, I mean, public speaking can relate on a lot of different ways to the kind of work that attorneys do, whether they’re at a seminar or in a trial, or, you know, whatever that, you know, those are all ways of kind.

[00:11:15] Being up in front of some kind of audience 

[00:11:18] Bridget: mm-hmm well, um, it’s, it’s fascinating because I work so much in books and books are this wonderful venue, just because you can tell an expanded story and inner thoughts and motivations and a lot of details. But when you get on a stage, you have a select period of time.

[00:11:36] So what you say has to count how you say it must count. And so always, always look at, you know, what is the reason I am here and being asked to speak in the first place. Who is in the audience that I could touch, reach and impact for good. Like, not just for today, but for the whole rest of their lives. I’m always about this serving in the greater good, but because I see the ripple all the time.

[00:12:01] Yeah. Where people can really step into their leadership with their stories. If they’re thinking not about, okay. Is my hair all right. Am I, you know, do I look okay? Um, have, you know, have I compiled something that’ll at least go over instead? It’s. Okay. I’m here for this audience and they’re here because they wanna learn X, Y, or Z.

[00:12:23] And so I’m gonna give them the greatest value that I possibly can. So a lot of times too, we have so much we wanna share, especially when you’re really good at something. And so this ability to. Uh, to make sure that you have prepared ahead of time cuz they will know. Yeah. The second thing is, is to never rely on technology because when you’re asked to speak somewhere, just like today, you never know when something won’t work and you’ve gotta be prepared to show.

[00:12:59] And really show up without that technology. So make sure that you’ve rehearsed both ways. And then the third thing is, you know, honing in on that greatest value. Uh, I have a tendency to fire hose, so sometimes I’ve like, okay, what are the three greatest things? That I could give to this audience that they would walk away and it would be of great value to them.

[00:13:19] And then at the end of your speeches, you can always say, can you tell that I have so much more, that I would love to share with you? Yeah. I hope you’ll get in contact with me if something has resonated and you know, and then you leave them again with something of value before you get off the stage.

[00:13:35] that’s 

[00:13:35] Karin: so that’s so good. Um, I’ve seen so many speakers who, uh, I’m sure they’re very well rehearsed, but they, they come across as more casual and they really get that audience involved and they kind of ask questions. But to me it seems kind of risky, like who knows if I ask a question of the audience and then what happens if nobody answers, you know, or they ask a question that’s.

[00:14:01] Way out of left field. Um, do you recommend that or is it better just kind of stick to like your prepared presentation? 

[00:14:09] Bridget: Well, I think it depends on what the audience looks like. You know, if you’re speaking to 10,000 people, it’s gonna look a little different than 300 people in the room, right? Yeah. So making sure that your energy matches what’s in the room and that you’re bringing it no matter what.

[00:14:25] Yeah. Um, the other thing that I think is important, I’m just gonna pull this down. The other thing that I think is really important is the ability for you to, um, to, depending on what your content. And that could be to, how should I say this? Um, if you have something memorized and it’s a way that’s still very compelling and approachable to the audience, like the audience members go, wow.

[00:14:53] It’s like, she’s talking to me. it’s like, he’s talking to me, right? Yeah. Then something that is more perhaps memorized or rehearsed. And I wouldn’t say memorized, cuz that gets really dull for, for an audience. They can tell you memorized it. Yeah. Instead I would, I would use your best storytelling and then your best teachable tips.

[00:15:14] And do it in a way that they can relate. And oftentimes, um, some of the best presenters they’ll make sure that they give you a lot of information and then time for question and answer at the end. And that way Karen, the, the trajectory doesn’t go off the rails. If that makes sense. 

[00:15:33] Karin: Yeah, that does. So how long would you say like if you are, and this is probably two different answers, but if you’re talking to a potential client and you’re wanting, you know, to convey some story and also if you’re on stage, how is there kind of a.

[00:15:48] Sweet spot for the amount of time a story should go on. Cause I feel like, um, I’ve heard great stories. I’ve heard other ones where I’m like, okay, I get the point. Like , you know, you don’t need to build it up so much, you know? Um, but it, do you, is there a good amount of time that you should be spending on these stories where you’re explaining kind of all of this, why and all this emotion behind, um, you know, what you’re talking about?

[00:16:12] Bridget: Uh, again, it depends, you know, if you, if you are only on for a Ted. yeah. Then, you know, you’re gonna have to have a couple of stories that are really strong within about four or five minutes, and then you’re gonna be weaving your principles in and among those stories, right? Yeah. If you’re doing a keynote and you have an entire hour to make your presentation, then I would say two to three really strong stories.

[00:16:36] That could even last as long as seven to, to 10 minutes, as long as they’re relevant to the topic that you’ve given. If that makes 

[00:16:44] Karin: sense. Yeah, totally. Um, so what other details can lawyers use? Uh, just in terms of how they convey their expertise, even in their kind of, we work a lot on their websites and their kind of initial marketing presentations and messaging.

[00:17:02] Um, what other ways can they use the stories? To kind of really get to the heart of why people should initially get in, in touch with 

[00:17:11] Bridget: them. Well, that’s a fantastic question cuz a lot of times people think, well, if I just set out the shingle, they will come. Right? Yeah. But as we mentioned, there is competition and in the attorney space, depending on which particular industry you’re in there, there are, uh, there’s a lot of competition and especially with.

[00:17:32] You know, certain geographical parameters, et cetera. Yeah. So just as we were talking about the why I think it’s really important for attorneys’ offices, if they have a vision and mission that they have come up with together, and then for those individual attorneys to make sure your why is really strong when it comes to your bio and your photo and everything else, make sure that your photo is approachable because you know, a picture.

[00:18:01] Is a thousand words right there. So if you have something and you’re like, I don’t know why I’m not getting any clients , but if you know, your nose is in the air and your arrogant chin is up, but if you are looking directly into the camera and you’re just being sincere and authentic, that’s huge. The same with your words.

[00:18:20] Yeah. Why are you doing this work? Um, what are you most proud of? And, um, who are the clients that you would love to see if you spell it all out? It’s like, oh, I’m his guy or I’m her guy. Right. You know, or gal. So that, that I think is really important. Don’t expect that just because you have a name out there that they’re gonna be able to figure it out, whatever you can do to be courageously visible and bold and authentic and honest, because you know, they’re, they’re looking for your great expertise.

[00:18:53] They need it for a reason. And they wanna know that there’s gonna be return on their investment, that whatever they’re paying you for, they’re actually gonna get, you know, something value of value out of. . 

[00:19:05] Karin: Yeah, I love that you used the word bold, um, as a contrast to what we were talking about earlier with how they can kind of go off the rails and be arrogant, feeling and sounding, um, and the idea of being bold most, most clients want their attorney to be bold and represent whatever their problem or issue or concern is.

[00:19:26] But arrogant is where you’ve kind of gone way too far. So are there certain areas while they’re kind of compiling their story? Are there certain, um, mistakes that you see people, uh, make or things that they shouldn’t talk about in their stories? 

[00:19:41] Bridget: Well, I, I think that, um, you know, the difference between confident and aggressive, right?

[00:19:47] Yeah. Uh, that that’s, that’s some of the language that you’re using. And so one of the things that I would do, and we, we have people do this with their books too, is, is talk to a handful of people who would be your beta readers and say, I’m gonna ask you to preview this website or this newsletter or this pitch or whatever it is that I’m doing.

[00:20:07] And I’m just gonna ask that you come from. Honest point of view of would you hire me? Yeah. And is there anything that comes across as overconfident, like I’m untouchable or unreachable, or is there anywhere where I’m playing small and I really deserve to build it up a little bit so that you can be confident that I could do my job in the places that it counts.

[00:20:32] Karin: Yeah. Oh, that’s great. That, I mean, I feel like that is the, the checks and balances that we see. Um, a lot of times when. Clients are coming into us initially. And they’re like, you know, I have a website, I have this, I have that. I’ve put these things out there and it really just needs to be fine tuned. It’s not that it’s wrong.

[00:20:51] It’s just gone a little too far in those two areas that you talked about being overly confident or under, you know, kind of not bringing their skills up to where they need to be. So I, I think that’s such great advice for, to get that outside. Input to kind of, you know, see what other people are, how they’re reading, um, your, your site or, or, you know, your, your marketing pieces.

[00:21:16] Bridget: I would agree. I would agree. And I have, I have one client who has hired 27 attorneys in his lifetime. Oh my gosh. There is the initial story to get someone in the door, but then just as a reminder, there’s the ongoing story, you know? Yes. How do you care for your. Um, you know, there’s a, there’s a story that, that he has about calling his attorney to wish him at, uh, Merry Christmas.

[00:21:42] And then he got billed for. Oh, so, you know, are you being a human? Are you, are you paying attention? Are you being conscious? You know? Yeah. Maybe someone has you on retainer. Are you still telling an authentic story? Are you still being relatable, compassionate, um, listening to them. I think that’s important.

[00:22:04] Yeah, 

[00:22:05] Karin: that’s a story where anyone would hear that. And I mean, any normal person would hear that and think that’s, that’s an attorney that doesn’t really want that client anymore. I mean, if they’re gonna go to that level of, um, it, it is doesn’t sound very human to me. Like it’s, 

[00:22:22] Bridget: I think it was just very unconscious, but even then, you know?

[00:22:25] Yeah, it’s true. What is the story it’s telling is. You know, I don’t want you for a client anymore. Yeah. And so we’ve gotta be careful about those ongoing relationships that are so important. Yeah. 

[00:22:36] Karin: And you know, I mean, in fairness, maybe he didn’t wanna answer the phone on Christmas and, um, but then in that case, don’t answer, , you know, call him back the next day, but still like retain that relationship, uh, because that’s a story now that will stay in that client’s memory and be used as an example.

[00:22:57] You know, for going into the future. So that’s pretty funny. So, Bridget, I know you, I know you obviously read a lot and you have a lot of books that you could recommend, but what’s the book that you have been reading that you wanna recommend to the audience. That would be a good one for them to pick up.

[00:23:15] Bridget: Well, I’ve been working with a lot of professionals, uh, especially since COVID, I have a lot of high level professionals that have been coming to me. And one of the things that I’ve been hearing over and over again is how they’re not caring for themselves, you know, during COVID, um, they’re, you know, the, the lack of socialization, but also maybe working too long, too hard, too much.

[00:23:39] And needing to have, uh, more self care that has been coming up all across multiple industries. Yeah. And, uh, I have found myself in the same situation. And so I’ve been reading a, a book that Tony Robbins recently put out called life force. And I’m loving it just because it’s a great reminder. Like here is this like powerhouse machine of a man who just go, go goes all the time.

[00:24:05] But he also, um, is very intrigued with new technology and new information that helps the human body. And the reason I bring that up for this particular interview, Karen is, is the two aspects of, you know, what is the story that you’re telling yourself about you and your own. only because the stories you tell yourself are the most important stories on the planet, right?

[00:24:29] Yeah. And then the, the second thing is, is that if you’re not caring for you. Then you are not gonna be able to do a great job with stories or with your clients or with the courtroom or wherever it may be that you’re acting in your capacity. And so for me right now, I just think it’s an important thing for us to, to consider that self care.

[00:24:50] And it’s intriguing to me, like all the new developments I, I get all juicy and excited about how the human. in us is learning, you know, science and spirituality and, and, but what we can do for our bodies that maybe we hadn’t ever considered before. Yeah. And a lot of people are, are working into their seventies and eighties if they so choose to, because they’re passionate about what they do, right?

[00:25:15] Karin: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. The word I have been seeing, especially this week for some reason is burnout. And everyone has just kind of hit this wall where, you know, the news cycle and the. Everything just, it feels like we’ve all just maxed out and we’re burnt out. And this idea that you were talking about, these stories that you’re telling yourself that is going to come out in your interactions with clients, or if you’re speaking or wherever that is, even if it’s just, you know, talking to your neighbors, the, the things you’re telling yourself.

[00:25:49] Are conveyed, even if it’s just in your body language and the way that you are carrying yourself. Um, but probably also in the way you speak and talk about yourself and, you know, so it’s all important to make sure that if you wanna tell this other story about your success and your expertise and all of that other stuff that you.

[00:26:07] Are telling yourself that as well , and that you like are feeling good and taking care of yourself and doing all those great things that we, we as humans all need to do. That sounds like a great book. Yeah. 

[00:26:18] Bridget: It’s, uh, part of a library of several books, but it is, it is really important. There’s a gentleman. I can’t think of his last name, but his name is Bo and he was a, a, a football player for a long time.

[00:26:30] Did really well that he was on the stage and his whole premise too, which is great for attorneys. You know, when you’ve gotta show up, you need to be spot on. And so your physical pros also has to be spot. And so, you know, I do a lot of live events and in my speaking, we’ve been talking about stages and with attorneys you’re on stage all the time, either on paper or in presence.

[00:26:54] And so, you know, this physical prowes, that is so important for all of us to be able to have is markedly more important for attorneys, I think, and the more you take care of yourself, then the client, it’s interesting how they will think and feel that you’ll also take care of them. 

[00:27:10] Karin: Yeah, absolutely. And, and the reverse as well.

[00:27:12] If you’re not taking care of it, everything starts to degrade every little email interaction, every phone call it, just people pick up on that. You’re just, you know, kind of on edge and not necessarily being the kindest, most generous person that you could be. . Yeah, that’s a great, that sounds great. We will link to that book in, uh, on your show page as well as in the library.

[00:27:34] Um, so Bridget, what’s one big takeaway that you’d like the listeners to get from this episode. Hmm. 

[00:27:40] Bridget: I think the biggest thing is to own the power of your own story. Yeah. There’s a, an author who said the destiny of the world is determined best or less by the battles lost in one than by the stories it loves and believes in.

[00:27:56] We see that in the courtroom all the time, but in the stories we tell ourselves, are they stories of limitations or possib? So I’d like to leave you with, what are the stories you’ve been telling and is it time to perhaps shift your story and up level to a greater way of playing the game? 

[00:28:14] Karin: Oh, that is so good.

[00:28:15] I love that. Um, so Bridget cook Birch, we will list, uh, link. Sorry. We will link to your, all of your websites, your resources. You’ve got some amazing workshops that I know. Um, everyone would like to, do you wanna mention your workshops that are coming up this 

[00:28:29] Bridget: fall? Oh, I’d love to. I have a couple of inspired writers retreats that will be in, uh, both bear lake and park city.

[00:28:38] So we always choose a gorgeous, natural setting. We’re very immersed with experience. We learning for three and a half days. It’s affordable. Um, but it’s also just splendor. that’s not a right. Yeah. But we’re gonna just pretend that it is cuz that’s how glorious it is. Is. 

[00:28:54] Karin: Yeah. And so the workshops, what are the workshops covering?

[00:28:57] Bridget: So, um, in these it’s three and a half intensive days about your story and so, oh, cool. We have writers of all types that come, but generally writers who are working on their book and also on the magic of their visibility. Like, oh, being courageous and no longer being afraid to, for the whole story to be able to come out and we dive deep, really fast.

[00:29:18] We go also a full day into the business of your book. So it hits a broad spectrum. We’re we’re really pleased because people can walk out of that retreat and go and write their book. It’s amazing 

[00:29:29] Karin: whole thing. I feel like there’s so many attorneys who are at different, uh, stages in their career, but they, they most, for the most part, they’re all writing as, as a career.

[00:29:40] And they’re not writing in the way that you’re talking about necessarily, but they’ve got these amazing stories of. Number one how they’ve maybe built a business, but also how they’ve worked with their clients. And I’m sure that there are more than a handful of attorneys that all have this idea of writing a book.

[00:29:55] At some point in the back of their mind, everybody is kind of talking to that potential book audience all the time like in their head. Um, and so to. Get all of that guidance in a workshop and then the business of it and then walk out and you’re ready to go. That sounds like an amazing workshop. So we’ll definitely link to that.

[00:30:15] Um, as well as your website and all of your other resources and Bridget cook Birch is the book whisperer. And, uh, it was such a pleasure to talk to you about this today. I think this was such a great and useful topic. So thank you so much for being here. Thank you. Carrin it was 

[00:30:29] Bridget: my honor. I appreciate.

[00:30:30]

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