How do the mentally strong manage their money? with Winnie Sun

Episode Notes

Transcript

[00:00:00] 

[00:00:27] Winnie: Hi everybody. I’m Winnie sun and you might know me as managing partner of sun group, world partners, but I’m also the host of level up a television show on NASDAQ, Amazon fire Roku, the CW San Francisco, longtime Forbes, contributor, and CNBC FA council member at award winning financial advisor, and one of the most followed financial advisors on social media today.

[00:00:50] Karin: Whitney. Thank you so much for being here. This is a great conversation, first of all, we’re local to each other. So this is gonna be kind of fun to be in the same time zone. [00:01:00] But also I feel like this is a topic that not a lot of lawyers really feel super secure about. And, um, so I really wanna cover some of these great tips that I know that you.

[00:01:12] Uh, are so well known for all of these, uh, great tips and advice. So this is gonna be a great episode, because like you said, you are the most trusted advi financial advisor on social media, pretty much, you know, out there and you have this amazing tweet chat that you have out there that, that has a great following.

[00:01:32] And so today the big question that we’re gonna talk about is how do the mentally strong manage their money? Where, what kind of tips do you typically start with for people when they’re feeling like, okay, I’m a smart person. I, you know, went to law school or, you know, whatever the case might be in each case, but where do they really start with managing their money and, and thinking about it in, in really use kind of smart 

[00:01:58] Winnie: ways.

[00:01:59] So Carter, I love this [00:02:00] question because I do think that, you know, so many of us, we’re so busy with our lives. We’ve done so much. I mean, you’ve gone to law school, you passed the bar. You’re absolutely part of that 1%. So in so many aspects of your life, you’re definitely an overachiever. So the concept of money sometimes just.

[00:02:16] Doesn’t come completely natural to us, right? Yeah. You might know how to build a great practice and make a lot of money and buy that, you know, shiny new toy or maybe car in the garage. But sometimes at some point you’re like, wow, I wanna have more to show for. And you probably do, but maybe it’s just those little nuggets where you’re thinking maybe my money can work a little bit harder, maybe as hard as I do.

[00:02:40] And you just want that second opinion. And the good news is. Perfectly normal. And I would say that, you know, now being a financial advisor for goodness, over two decades, I’ve learned that, you know, everybody feels very similarly that they’re not doing enough and that’s totally normal. And in most [00:03:00] cases, what I find is they’ve done actually much of the heavy lifting.

[00:03:04] It’s just a little tweaks, a little bit of ice, and that’s where I think. That’s where the mentally strong really thrive, because the skills that you already have in your own business actually relate really well to managing your own money. But of course, you’re spending time doing what you do best, which gives me time and my team to work on what we do best.

[00:03:24] And so coming together as professionals, that’s what magic happens. 

[00:03:28] Karin: Yeah. Oh, that’s so great. There’s so many little nuggets in there. Um, so the first one that stood out, there’s a couple that I wanted to follow up on. First of all, you talked about everyone has this feeling of not doing enough. So how do you start to define?

[00:03:43] And obviously the answer is gonna be different for everyone, but how do you start to define what enough is for each person? So 

[00:03:50] Winnie: kind. I think that’s a really great question. And I think it comes of like spending the time to sit down and whether it be virtually or in [00:04:00] person, but having that discussion of what’s most important about money to you.

[00:04:04] Right. For everybody that answers a little bit different, you know, some people, it means. You know, it’s gonna give them freedom to maybe retire early. It could mean providing for their family and their loved ones. It could be that, you know, they’re reaching another level professionally that they’ve always wanted to do.

[00:04:21] So it’s really starting with a blank sheet of paper, having these honest discussions and a little bit of peace, you know, giving your. Self that time. I always say it’s kind of giving yourself about eight minutes of time and eight minutes sounds like a lot of time for some people. And it might sound like not that much time for others, but eight minutes is a good time to really put down three sort of money goals for yourself.

[00:04:44] And what that is is what’s most important about money. Like what goal you absolutely do want to meet? So it could be, I really, really wanna retire early. That’s just, I’m so burnt out this side and that’s good. And then. You know, building through that process and not just doing it yourself, but [00:05:00] also if you have a partner, if you have a spouse, having that person do it as well.

[00:05:03] And I know car and you and I have kids and yeah, same thing have encouraging them to do it because, you know, I will tell you the household that plans together is a household that not only is strong today. But into the future, it will completely change, um, the way you and your household think about money and you will be so tremendously stronger when you’re needing to make those important financial pivot.

[00:05:28] Yeah. You know, 

[00:05:29] Karin: I, I liked your mention of kind of the kids and thinking about what that means for them. And I feel like in my own, uh, kind of childhood and growing up there, weren’t a lot of great conversations about finances. It was sort of a private topic, uh, until I got into college and maybe after college, so I’m wondering what kind of conversations, how you do that differently yourself, but also how we can kind of make up for that.

[00:05:58] For those of [00:06:00] us who, uh, didn’t grow up, feeling comfortable, having these conversations. 

[00:06:05] Winnie: Yeah. You know, it’s interesting Carter. I mean, most of us didn’t, you know, really talk a lot about finances growing up and I’ve, I’ve seen that to be consistent with pretty much everybody I talk about. And of course there are some families, certainly they have some good financial habits, maybe talk a little bit about money, but probably nowhere to the degree that our kids learned math and reading and everything else.

[00:06:24] Right? Yeah. So, you know, actually LinkedIn, uh, LinkedIn in partnership with, uh, Microsoft, they approached me not long ago to create a. Uh, called and we put together a course called how to talk to your kids about money, right. How to teach your kids about money. Yeah. And it was like, basically all the things that I’ve done with my own kids as a financial advisor, as a mom, I think, you know, I was sort of uniquely positioned to do that really well, but I would say, you know, one thing we gotta get comfortable is.

[00:06:51] Talking about money now. I don’t mean talking about spending. Spending’s a big part of it. Yeah. But also just talking about money and talking about like, I [00:07:00] think going through what we’ve gone through the last few years has been actually tremendously beneficial. If you’ve had these conversations, um, with everybody in your household, with your, your partner, your kids.

[00:07:11] And just saying, wow, this is crazy. You know, inflation is at this Le this level. And maybe we should think about doing this instead and save for that. Um, but really getting to a point where money isn’t taboo is the key thing. So just practicing, it’s no different and teaching your kids how to eat broccoli.

[00:07:28] Right? Totally. Yeah. The more you can talk about money, the better, and it’s. You know, I always say, I, I, I tell my, um, my clients are doing this for the first time. I say, you know, what I would just do is pick a month and like, literally try to, you know, put a reminder in your phone that pops up, just says, you know, talk a little something about money and like literally do it for.

[00:07:51] 30 seconds to a minute. Doesn’t even have to be that big. It could be like, do you know what I remember? My dad never let me, you know, have this. Yeah. It could be really [00:08:00] simple. And then just be quiet and see where it takes you. But I say the, the one month thing, because as we know, most habits are built over 21 times.

[00:08:08] Yeah. So we know for sure there’s gonna be in that month. We’re gonna miss a couple days. And so overall those will be okay. 

[00:08:13] Karin: yeah, that’s a good one. And I feel like there’s a lot of, uh, stigma around people who either grow up, grew up not talking about money, who didn’t grow up with, uh, a lot of wealth or they just have a, a lot of really big feelings around their finances.

[00:08:31] And so for a lot of people that can really lead to some bad habits mm-hmm . And so kind of going back to the question about how the mentally strong manage their money. What are some tips that you would have in terms of like a business person who has a law firm and how they should be, um, how, first of all, they can kind of get past some of those emotions and then maybe some tips about how they can keep track of things or big picture numbers.

[00:08:57] They should be paying attention 

[00:08:58] Winnie: to. Well, Karen, this is [00:09:00] like the million dollar question. It’s just a brilliant question, but, and I love that. We talk about this. The first thing I wanna say is this to everybody that’s listening is that you gotta get comfortable with the idea. Money doesn’t define you and it can never define you.

[00:09:14] And if it does, then it’s gonna eat you up and you’re never going to feel whole. And the thing is like, money is just literally, you gotta think of it as a tool. It’ll get you from point a to point B. It’s certainly, you know, solves a lot of problems, no doubt, but the really, really big problems in life, believe it or not, money cannot solve right.

[00:09:33] Health issues. Those are big, big things, but just remember that. You know, on days that you have less money or you make more money, does it really matter? It probably doesn’t at that time, right? Yeah. Yeah. But what you gotta remember is you gotta make sure that you can take care of the big things. You can take care of shelter.

[00:09:52] You can take care of food. And medication, right? Those are sort of those emergency needs. Sure. But everything else is sort of gravy. And [00:10:00] then you gotta get to a point where you gotta realize that, um, the ins and outs changes in your portfolio or your savings account. That’s just normal. So, you know, you can’t let you know when the numbers go down a little bit, you can’t get down.

[00:10:14] That’s not healthy. And when it goes up, it’s, it’s, it’s good, but you can’t put too much emphasis on that. And you certainly don’t wanna put too much emphasis on that with your kids, cuz that’s not healthy. Instead you wanna build on patterns, meaning that. You wanna get to a point where you, you consistently add to your retirement account, you consistently add to your kids’ education account.

[00:10:34] You consistently look and you put emphasis on activity and productivity versus the number like, um, I tell my clients the same thing. It’s good. You get statements. You can look at your portfolio daily. You can certainly have statements at least, you know, quarterly or monthly, depending on what cycle you’re at.

[00:10:52] Is it important to look at it? Probably not once a year, for sure. Maybe twice a year, but those who do [00:11:00] best financially, believe it or not are those who just focus on what they do best in life. So in that, in, in your case, right, it could be practicing law and building this great practice. That is what you do best.

[00:11:11] The, the, the clients that I have, I look back at the clients that literally, that people would say, wow, I can’t believe. They earn so much and how like grew their portfolios of such humongous amounts, right. That have that financial independence and freedom, believe it or not, they were just too busy working on what they did best and they let us run the money and take care of things for them.

[00:11:32] And. And that’s truly, I think what we want to do, you wanna set things up? So things happen for you automatically, you have money going into your accounts automatically you pay off your credit cards in full, automatically, and then that way you have less stress, right? Yeah. And then, you know, people are working hard that you can trust for you.

[00:11:53] And then you just focus on investing in yourself. And most importantly, remember that. . [00:12:00] I always say one of the best things that I’ve always told my kids about is, you know, some people collect Pokemon cars, some people collect stamps, whatever they collect. I said, in our household, we collect money. And that’s what we do.

[00:12:14] We literally collect money. We don’t, um, overspend. We don’t need to have all the biggest toys and we only have everything else. But if you collect money, then that’s key. Because what you wanna do is get yourself in a position where you have financial freedom and financial freedom means that if, if bad things happen to you, right, unexpected happens to you.

[00:12:34] You have the capability to use money that. Saved previously, and you’re not completely dependent on what you bring in into the future. That’s truly financial freedom where like I could have ly be retired over a decade ago. Yeah. And I, I love to work. I choose to work and I love the relationships I have, but that gives me a lot of peace.

[00:12:57] So I’m not really stressed out about what I need to bring [00:13:00] in to sustain the household. And that’s just the bill. Exactly. Yeah. That’s what you need to do. . 

[00:13:07] Karin: Yeah, that is, that is so comforting knowing kind of knowing that you need to find those. Trust those experts. And this is the same thing. I feel like that we keep learning about in any of these topics, the clients that we work with, the ones who have the best success with their marketing campaigns are the ones who trust us and the ones who are busy, like exactly the same way you describe it.

[00:13:32] Busy being great lawyers and not trying to be a great lawyer on top. Figuring out the marketing and getting, you know, getting too entrenched in the details of every single word on their marketing campaigns and they trust us, and then we run with it and the same thing for your finances. So are there things that you’ve seen, especially, um, A lot of the people that we talk to and are listening, run their law firms, more like a small [00:14:00] business.

[00:14:00] Um, so have, are there things that you’ve seen small businesses not pay attention to? So, you know, if they’re checking in say quarterly or semi-annually, um, that they, some red flags that they’re missing, um, that they should, they should be noticing and paying attention to when they do check in and, and look at the.

[00:14:21] Winnie: Absolutely hard. I mean, before I was in the financial industry, I was in the television audience production. I owned a television audience production company, and even now I own multiple businesses. And I think as small business owners, Our focus is of course, on our business, our practice, our clients, you know, our and marketing and all the things.

[00:14:38] And sometimes we forget that at some point, we need to make sure that we’re a big piece of that priority. Now, I don’t mean getting yourself the fanciest car or the best outfit, but what I really mean is having monies put aside for you because when you work at a large company, the nice thing is. Benefits, you know, you have your 401k and whatnot, but when you’re self-employed, your [00:15:00] income is higher, but it also means you need to spend that time.

[00:15:03] So you can DIY yourself. Right. So you’ll wanna make sure you have a great relationship with your accountant, a great relationship with your financial advisor and your team there, so that there’s trust. And, um, the other thing is I would say is, you know, so often we just. Leaving all our money in our, our business bank account.

[00:15:22] That’s actually not the thing you wanna do. You wanna make sure because each year the government gives you an allowance to, uh, suck away some money for your own personal retirement and your company’s retirement plan. Um, and. There’s a, there’s a maximum that you’re able to contribute each year. There’s also like the advantage of a pension, if you’re self-employed, but if you forget, or you just don’t do these activities, you’re really leaving a lot of money on the table.

[00:15:47] There’s so many advantageous ways to invest smartly on a tax deferred or even on a tax deferred, growing to be tax free basis. That so often I’ll meet with a self-employed, um, business owner. Right. And [00:16:00] it’s not even that small business, they could have a hundred employees, they could have 10 employees.

[00:16:03] They. Too. It doesn’t really matter the size, but it remind the, the key is to start and make sure you set these goals and you contribute each and every year. So many times they’ll say, oh, Wendy, if only I had meant you 10 years ago, yes. Or 12 years ago, I just, I could have done this all along. I just, nobody told me.

[00:16:22] And I said, that’s because you do what you do. We do what we. 

[00:16:25] Karin: Yeah. Yeah. And that the idea of exponential growth, uh, that compounds, it always comes back to everyone talking about their retirement plan and looking at what happens if you start today versus what happens if you put it off for a few years and you can almost never get that difference back.

[00:16:44] And. Uh, so when I used to work in corporate and then I went out on my own, there was a lot of these kind of pieces of that puzzle that I was trying to kind of put back in place. From the small business side of it. So for me, [00:17:00] um, the, the things that you’re describing were like, okay, I had a 401k over at, you know, my corporate job.

[00:17:06] So what’s the equivalent like, and I had to do all that research and figure out, okay, what am I gonna do? So, and, and at the time, , it’s funny that you mentioned having a really trusting relationship with your accountant because we had a book person, a person who was doing our books that. So grumpy that we were a little afraid of her and so every year when it came time to do taxes, I did the least amount to have the least interaction with her that’s possible.

[00:17:33] And there would be a list of questions that I would ask. I would have asked if she was a different person, but. that’s really important and you never know what you’re, what, number one money you’re putting on leaving on the table or what risk you’re putting yourselves in by not having these, you know, boxes checked.

[00:17:51] So I feel like that’s so important have that great relationship with your person doing all your books, but also know all these questions and have yourself set [00:18:00] up in a way that you might have had. If you had that corporate umbrella that you were working under. Like, you know, for us that means having a SEP account or, you know, whatever that might mean for different businesses, but make sure you’re setting up those retire.

[00:18:14] Accounts for yourself as well. 

[00:18:16] Winnie: yeah, absolutely. And car, I I’m agree with you a hundred percent. I mean, when I look back of all the years, I’ve been doing this as a financial advisor started at Smith Barney. And one of the things I will say is my, my long time business mentor is my long time CPA. I mean, I’ve been with them since I was my early twenties, right.

[00:18:32] When I had like no money at the time, but he has been, so he and his entire team have been so instrumental whenever had a. I had any question, like, like when I had my first kid, you know, should, should I get a minivan? Should I get an SUV? And he would say, you should get this because of your taxes. This would benefit you.

[00:18:48] This is how much you could deduct immediately. Like all these questions. You have to have someone that you can go to that can ask questions. And it’s important. Also, I should mention that it’s really good. An idea [00:19:00] to have your financial advisor and your accountant always be different people because we have different goals for you.

[00:19:06] My job, and my goal is to help you build. Big wealth as I can for you long term, I want you to have as much money as you can have long term the accountant shop each year is to minimize your taxes that you pay each and every year. So we’re not always gonna have the same answer for you, but that’s actually really good because then you can take these two pieces.

[00:19:26] Um, of knowledge and make the decision that you feel most comfortable, um, for you too. So, yeah, I love it. I love this as, as I’m so glad we’re having this conversation because time and time again, people feel really overwhelmed and yet. Um, you know, it’s, if you find the right person, it’s a person where you can ask the smallest of questions.

[00:19:47] Yes. But those small questions are so pivotal. Yeah. Like, for example, I’ll give you one super quick example. Okay. Cuz I know you are all really busy, but here’s the thing. So my son has, my oldest has just turned [00:20:00] 13, you know, this year it’s a big deal. So as a, you know, a typical parent, you’d be like, oh yeah.

[00:20:05] Now he’s a, you know, 10 years. I can be like, yo, but as a financial advisor, I’m like, okay, that’s interesting. Okay. So now he’s 13. So I’m gonna get him his second authorized user credit card. I’m also going to start, um, you know, giving him jobs so that he can work. And then once he works, I’m gonna make sure that money goes into a Roth IRA and all these things so that we can build multi-generational wealth.

[00:20:27] So as a financial advisor, I actually coach my clients on this because they’re so busy. They’re not gonna think about these things. Like my eight year old, he has credit cards too. And these are things that you might say, well, why does he need a credit card? Course, he doesn’t need a credit card, but he does need to start to build credit.

[00:20:42] And he needs to, 

[00:20:43] Karin: he needs to, why is that? Cause sorry to interrupt. But, um, I, I think I know the answer to this and I’ve talked to other people about this and my kids are a little bit younger than yours, but just to clarify it and just, you know, throw the doors, why it. Why should an eight year old or a 13 year old start to build their [00:21:00] credit now.

[00:21:00] And I think the, the other kind of note here is I’m guessing they don’t actually hold those credit cards or actually go out and use them in any way. I’m guessing they’re in your wallet. Is 

[00:21:10] Winnie: that right? Actually. Okay. So you’re gonna love this. So couple things. Yes. So if you put them as an authorized user on your accounts, right.

[00:21:17] And you pay them in full every month and it does help benefit them in terms of credit. The second thing I love is it gives me a chance to talk to them about their credit cards and how to use it and how not to use it and how to keep ’em safe. And yes, they have actually used them. And how they use them is this is, um, you know, kids, especially, you know, our kids nowadays.

[00:21:35] They do a lot of like, after school classes, like out school classes, maybe. My kids go to tennis too. And so they will use their cars to pay for their. Okay. Oh, nice. So they understand that’s a cost of things that they get to enjoy and they get to make financial decisions and we talk about them and they also learn about, um, keeping your card safe, right.

[00:21:57] And not getting those, uh, take advantage of, and, [00:22:00] and, and most importantly, now they’re not afraid of how to handle credit cards at such a young. Yeah, let’s be honest. How much do you, do you, you and your family use cash in my family? It’s almost like ZT yeah, 

[00:22:13] Karin: exactly. Ver it’s like less than 1%. I mean, it’s just random only when it’s absolutely necessary.

[00:22:20] I just don’t even like carrying it around. I don’t think anybody does, but that’s a really great point. Um, and I think it’s just these little things. Um, there’s so many things to think about in any business, and it’s not that you are not smart. It’s not that you’re not thinking about these things. It’s just that there’s so many details.

[00:22:40] Mm-hmm and I really liked the, the example you had earlier about the different goals between the accountant and the financial advisor. And so. Setting out all of those goals and realizing that some may overlap and some may be in conflict of each other. And so then as you go through your decisions, you have to figure out [00:23:00] which, which takes priority.

[00:23:01] Winnie: right. And you really have to have both. And the key thing is to have people that, that know you and wanna spend time to get to know you as a human being, not just as a statement or a number and that’s key because, you know, um, they always say like cost is only even an issue, right? If you lack of value and unfortunately, um, you’re gonna, you’re gonna sense that really quickly, a good advisor doesn’t cost more and good accountants certainly doesn’t cost more, but to have one, they will.

[00:23:29] Big life changes for you like earlier you talked about, well, I’ve got a set. Well, is that. The best for you. Is there other things that you can layer on top of that? Right. Right. And, and knowing all this information like right now, there’s, there’s so much happening, uh, in government right now, changing retirement planning laws, and, you know, requirement of distribution required, minimum distribution laws.

[00:23:51] And, um, you know, the build back law was trying to get rid of the. The backdoor Roth IRA. These are all things that as someone who has [00:24:00] high income, really, you need to, you need to know about these opportunities and you need to know about these options. They may or may not be appropriate for you, but you need to have someone who’s.

[00:24:11] Who knows all these little nuances, cuz so often, um, people will come to me and say, well, what, what kind of return would I get if we move to you? Cuz I really think we need a financial advisor. I said, well, you know, obviously returns are very important and we obviously have a great reputation. So I I’m pretty proud of the work that we.

[00:24:29] We do, but I think, you know, there’s a lot of magic in the planning aspect of it, right? So if I can shelter this much more money that you have just sitting in your checking account or that’s coming in, um, and a tax sheltered basis and, and teach you all these strategies, and that could save you maybe 20, 30, 40%, right from the get go.

[00:24:50] That is a, some significant value. You don’t need to be nickel diamond. We’re talking half a percent to 1%, those things. As, as infl important, if [00:25:00] over right over 10, 20 years, you’re saving significantly more in taxes every year. These are, these are really big things. Yeah. And that can mean the difference between retire early and comfortable, or like literally never being able to retire.

[00:25:13] Oh 

[00:25:14] Karin: gosh. That’s major. I mean, that is, that is really impacting a person’s. Livelihood happiness. Um, every part of a person’s kind of existence at that point. Mm-hmm mm-hmm yeah. Oh my gosh. So many good things. Okay. So, um, I’m going to transition to the book review. There’s no kind of smooth transition over here, cuz there’s so many good things.

[00:25:36] I know we could go on and on, but I don’t want it to be, you know, a three hour episode and I know you’ve got so much good content. Um, so Winnie what’s the great, uh, a great book that you have for our audience to recommend that, um, you’ve really enjoy. 

[00:25:49] Winnie: Sure. Thank you so much. Well, let me just tell you, I’m not gonna preface this entire past weekend.

[00:25:54] Like literally all my friends and different people that I know have been calling me, cuz they’re all doing travel planning. [00:26:00] My big hobby is actually believing at points and miles. I’m like the queen of traveling for free, but I love it. So that gives you some, uh, like segue into my book. So my book that I wanna recommend is a trillion dollar coach and I love this book.

[00:26:13] It’s by bill Campbell. Okay. And bill Campbell. Famous legendary coach that coached people such as Eric spit, like the founder of founders of Google and Marcus Zuckerberg and Shel Sandberg and the founders of Facebook and all these legendary companies into it right now. And so he was actually their personal coach and this is actually, um, they dedicated and wrote this because while he was alive, he didn’t wanna write a book about himself, but all.

[00:26:40] Huge leaders that were coached personally by him. Well, they actually got together when he passed away and wrote chapters of what they learned from him and it’s in this book and I just feel like it’s, it’s massive. And so part of what I do is I really want my kids to learn obviously about, you know, these [00:27:00] lessons of business and.

[00:27:01] And mindset of putting things into perspective. That is not about all, about money, but it’s about being really confident in those financial decisions, but also, you know, having that work life balance, which is why I sort of talk about travel. Cause I do as much of talk about travel as I do about these types of concepts with my kids.

[00:27:19] Yeah. Oh, 

[00:27:20] Karin: that’s so great. I, we could have a whole other episode about travel as well, because I am a big travel officiate auto as well. Um, but I have come across that book and, um, it’s on my list and I know I’ve seen the reviews and I know that there’s some good tips. I mean, how could there not be, he’s basically this coach to all of these major, he was sort of behind the scenes in all these major Silicon valley companies.

[00:27:45] Mm-hmm and kind of pushing them. To those next levels that they might not have, have, have reached otherwise. So there’s gonna be some great, um, insight there. We’ll definitely link to that in the library and also in the show notes of the show. So Winnie [00:28:00] what’s a big takeaway, one big takeaway that you’d like people to get from the 

[00:28:03] Winnie: episode.

[00:28:03] I think one big takeaway is just that you know, that you can do it. You have to make that first decision and whatever you do, when you hear this episode, don’t just move on with your day. Take literally five minutes or 10 minutes and write down and decide that you’re going to do this. You’re gonna find if you have a financial advisor, great.

[00:28:22] Have that conversation. You know, if you don’t sit down, make sure you take the. Find one, um, and spend the time because you deserve it. What I don’t want you to do is hear this great episode and learn some of these things. And there’s a great idea. I should have me do that and then fast forward, five years and you still didn’t do it.

[00:28:39] And yes, I think that that is something that you owe yourself. You owe yourself a better life and you owe yourself less financial stress. And most important, I always say is when did you do this? When it comes to money, it’ll be calm. It’ll be Zen. And it’ll be. 

[00:28:56] Karin: that’s exactly what I was just picturing. Like kind of take the burden of all of those [00:29:00] questions off your shoulders.

[00:29:01] Mm-hmm and find the right person who you can just kind of go to and have that resource to a ask and answer all those questions and get all of those, that information and feel confident going forward in all the choices that you’re making. Um, so Winnie, thank you so much for being here. This was so good and such a great conversation and really important.

[00:29:22] I feel like there was some kind of big picture kind of, sort of easy ideas, but that are really, really important that some people are really missing and, uh, need to make sure that they’re focusing in on and, and covering all their bases. So thanks again for being here. I really appreciate it. 

[00:29:38] Winnie: Thank you so much.

[00:29:39] Carron for having me, it’s been a complete treat and I love meeting you. 

[00:29:43] [00:30:00]