Tips on how to strategize and grow your law firm on Facebook, LinkedIn, and more!
Andréa Jones is a social media strategist and podcaster committed to helping businesses and podcasters build profitable...
Karin Conroy is a legal marketing consultant and founder of Conroy Creative Counsel, which specializes in creating...
How do you avoid social media overwhelm? How do you turn your social media audience into a real community?
We’re discussing the power of social media for your firm in this episode.
Joining me is Andréa Jones, who has built an online business committed to empowering businesses to utilize the power of social media in a positive and impactful way, without being overwhelmed and drained by it.
With over 7 years experience in the game, Andréa hosts the acclaimed podcast, the Savvy Social Podcast, leads a team providing done-for-you service inside of her marketing agency that was named a Top Digital Marketing Agency in 2021, and serves over 200 students in her membership, the Savvy Social School.
Andrea gives listeners actionable tips on:
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[00:00:27] Andrea: Hi, my name is Andrea Jones and I’m a social media strategist dedicated to helping business owners really learn how to use social media as a tool to grow their business. So I really like to focus in on both the how and the why of social media marketing, so that um, so that law firms can create community build connection, and really make their differences.
[00:00:49] Karin: Oh, that’s so good. I love all those sub points. the creating community, especially, I think we need to come back to that for sure. So first of all, hello, Andrea. Thank you for being here. I appreciate your time and insight and all of this expertise on social media, which for a lot of my clients and people I’m talking to, it is kind of a mysterious.
[00:01:12] A black box of you know I’m not sure what’s in there and whether I should be there and you know, all of those, those kinds of scary ideas. so to begin with our big question today, and for this episode is how can you avoid social media overwhelm? Cause I feel like that’s step one is. Just being completely overwhelmed.
[00:01:35] Karin: So where do you usually start with clients who are coming to you completely like deer in the headlights. Look, I’m not sure where to even start.
[00:01:44] Andrea: Yeah.
[00:01:44] You know, that feeling is so common for a lot of business owners and it’s because there are so many options today for where you can. On social media from Facebook to Instagram, to LinkedIn, to Twitter. Should I even think about Tik TOK? You know, so there are a lot of options. And so one of the first things I want to dive into with reducing that overwhelming feeling is really understanding the role that social media can play in your firm.
[00:02:11] So, you know, how is social media going to actually. Give you that next level of your business. So for some firms, it may be, you know, directly connecting with potential clients and customers, especially if you work with a lot of business owners or something like that. For some firms, it may just be more of a showcase piece of expertise.
[00:02:30] So we know what we’re talking about. So when people research and look up, look us up, they know, you know what we’re doing, what we’re all about. So it’s really kind of boiling it down to its core essence. Why are we. Pursuing this in the first
[00:02:44] Karin: Yes.
[00:02:45] Andrea: And then from there, I like to just, you know, set yourself some parameters, focus on one or two platforms and give yourself a time limit.
[00:02:54] Um, I find that because there are so many options, it’s so easy to spend all
[00:03:00] day on social
[00:03:01] Karin: Well, and it’s kind of designed to suck you in and have you spend all day, but to go to back up to the Y uh, I feel like a lot of the people I talk to start out and they’re why is because. Somebody down the street or some of their, one of their colleagues mentioned it. It’s like the grass is always greener over there.
[00:03:24] And this is kind of fascinating because I’ve been doing websites pretty much since the beginning of website time. And that’s how websites started to they, you nobody really, especially for lawyers. Cause they’re very hesitant. Initially, they didn’t really believe that they needed one and then they kind of saw that somebody else was had one.
[00:03:45] And so maybe they thought, well, maybe, and then they saw somebody else had one and had some success. And so then they’re thinking, okay I want that. And that’s the only reason that they were kind of initially approaching me and of course, websites have come a long way, but I feel like social media for lawyers are kind of, it’s kind of in that same bucket where there’s no other real reason right now, other than sort of FOMO like that fear of missing out.
[00:04:09] But that doesn’t seem like a very good strategy. So, let’s talk about where they really should start with their, why.
[00:04:16] Andrea: Yeah,
[00:04:17] You know, the FOMO is so real because it’s so public, we just like with websites, you can just look someone up and see exactly what they’re
[00:04:23] posting that day. But you know, you’ve got to look at kind of where you are today and not really worry too much about what everyone else is doing really focused in on how it’s going to be beneficial to your firm, your business, because ultimately that’s what it is.
[00:04:38] Content creators, just, you know, dancing on Tik TOK for fun. We, we have businesses to run. Right.
[00:04:43] So it’s really focusing in on that. And honestly one of my number one platform recommendations for lawyers is LinkedIn. I see a lot of amazing connections happening on that platform. You don’t have to post as much as some of the other platforms, so you don’t have that huge content load, like hanging over your head.
[00:05:04] And the ability to kind of connect with people is a lot more organic on that platform versus some of the other platforms
[00:05:12] Karin: And it’s also nicely boxed inside the little bucket of being very professional. And so I think that makes a lot of lawyers feel more comfortable because they’re not trying to be like weird and, you know, should I do that weird tick-tock day? Probably not the answer is probably not. If you’re doing it on, on behalf of your firm, we’re not going to do that on LinkedIn.
[00:05:35] For sure. That would be weird.
[00:05:39] That’s a great place to start. I think so. In terms of like avoiding the whole overwhelm and that whole idea start with one or two platforms and where you’re really comfortable, you know, and a lot of times that’s going to start with LinkedIn and that kind of professional presence.
[00:05:54] Andrea: Yeah,
[00:05:55] Karin: Yeah, that’s awesome. Okay. So where else do you see that they get the, the general feeling of overwhelm? Maybe they’ve started and they’ve kind of got some of those platforms going, but it’s just keeping up with it. And how else can you kind of avoid that.
[00:06:13] Andrea: Yeah.
[00:06:14] so I like to build in three different habits when it comes to social media. Progress because it’s very easy. Like you said, the platforms are designed to be addictive. They’re designed to keep you scrolling. Plus you’re constantly comparing herself. So three different habits to build in one is your content creation habit.
[00:06:33] This. Typically going to be maybe once a week, some people do it once a month, where you sit down and you think about the content pieces you’re going to create, what are you going to write? What image or video is going to go with it. And again, I like a time limit here because it’s very easy to say. I want to post every day, but if you’re approaching this for the first time, that everyday pose is going to take hours and hours of your time.
[00:06:57] And you’re comparing yourself to some other firm that does post every day, but you don’t know what happens behind the scenes over there and what kind of support they have. So
[00:07:05] Karin: And if they’ve been doing it for years and years, and they’ve already got their system really honed. So where they started with each post taking hours, and now it takes them, you know, 10 or 15.
[00:07:16] Andrea: exactly. Exactly. So give yourself the space to learn something new, because this is a new skill. The second habit is checking in and typically I say you want to check in every week day but give yourself another time limit there. Most of my business owners who maybe be a solo firm or something like that are checking in about 15, 20 minutes a day and moving on from there to the million other things we have to do in our day.
[00:07:42] Karin: What do you mean by tracking and just kind of going into the accounts and seeing what is that usually?
[00:07:47] Andrea: Yeah, so there’s, there’s two like approaches to checking in. We definitely want to make sure we’re responding to the engagement that’s happening on our posts. So when we post something and someone likes it, or someone leaves a comment, they share it. We want to kind of be present and participate with them on the platform.
[00:08:03] But then you’re also spending time seeking new connections. So seeking out those new potential clients or better yet potential partnerships. So maybe it’s an accounting firm that you’re going to see if, you know, see if you could come speak to their clients about the legal side of their businesses or whatever the case may be.
[00:08:23] Right. So partially checking on your own community and partially expanding your current community.
[00:08:30] Karin: Awesome. Okay. And then once again, keep it to a limited amount of time for each of these. three things, what do you recommend is, you know,
[00:08:39] Karin: a good starting place for how much time people should be spending on each of these.
[00:08:43] Andrea: Yeah. So for the content creation about one hour, a week is a great place to start. For the daily check-in about 15, 20 minutes a day that’s per platform. So if you decide on a second platform, you’re signing up for double
[00:08:55] Karin: Yeah, no, that makes sense. Yeah. And I see people that are, you know, commenting and checking in all day long. I’m like, don’t you have work to do, you know, at some point it’s like, But like we said, it’s so easy to get sucked in and it’s so easy to, if you don’t have those kinds of parameters and rules around your own behavior kind of end up spending way too much time, kind of in the wrong direction.
[00:09:19] Andrea: yeah.
[00:09:20] exactly. Which is why I like the time limit piece. Because then we, then we don’t get dragged away. And then the third, the third case, Piece to this is also tracking the success. So this is a piece that people miss sometimes as they feel like it’s not working because they’re putting in the effort, but we got to actually look at the metrics.
[00:09:37] So once a month spend about 20, 30 minutes and look through your posts, which ones worked well, which ones didn’t, which connections turned into something for you, which ones didn’t and, you know, Three or four things that you’re going to track each month and be consistent about that, because then you’ll actually see if it’s working for you instead of comparing yourself to all of the other people have.
[00:09:58] Karin: Well, and you can’t really know, like you said before, what’s happening behind closed doors. So you may see this front account and who knows how well that’s converting. I mean, you have no idea what’s actually happening when people land on those accounts. So that leads to a great whole avenue about the metrics.
[00:10:17] How, how do you recommend. Figuring out and determining what to measure, because there are so many different numbers when you land in any given account and different platforms measure different things, and they all have different words for that stuff. So where you said to pick three or four metrics, which I think is also great, kind of like putting that box around it, like the time limit, what metrics do you think are the most important for.
[00:10:47] Andrea: Yeah, so that, to me, one of the most important metrics is if someone visits my website from that social platform, especially as a service provider, we obviously we do want to build community, but ultimately we’re all. Trying to run a business. So I want to see, you know, in my Google analytics, how many people came from LinkedIn to the website this month.
[00:11:10] And so that’s a really easy one to track for service providers. And then the second one I would look at is just overall what we call. interest. So how many people are you actually reaching with your posts? Are they seeing your posts? Cause especially in this industry you know, one of my clients for instance, is a divorce lawyer.
[00:11:27] People aren’t commenting on her posts saying, oh, I was just thinking about this
[00:11:31] the other day.
[00:11:32] Karin: right. Cause all their friends are like, oh really? Exactly.
[00:11:36] Andrea: It’s not that kind of engagement. So with her and she’s on Instagram. So with her accounts, we’re looking at impressions and reach. So how many people looked at this post? And then also on Instagram, they have the save function.
[00:11:51] So for her, we’re looking at how many. Saved this post because they’re probably not going to like it or comment on it, but we still need to track if, if there’s some interest happening here. So, you know, kind of, you know, it does vary per platform, but kind of really trying to understand your demographic and what result you’re trying to get from that social
[00:12:12] Karin: Well, and that really makes sense because it’s. Making sure that you’re keeping track of what’s realistic too, because I’ve worked with attorneys like that and also a criminal defense attorneys. Same thing. If someone’s got a need for a criminal defense attorney, they’re probably not going to comment.
[00:12:29] They’re probably not going to want their friends to see that. So to expect, to start out with a social media campaign and expect that your measurement is going to be comments and. That’s, that’s not kind of checking in with reality. So a realistic expectation is what you’re describing that whole overall reach, maybe saves things like that.
[00:12:48] That makes so much more sense. Whereas if it’s. a firm that works with small businesses and they’re talking about like how they uh, have worked with some celebrities or whatever. And that’s like really exciting and everybody thinks that’s fantastic. And they do all kinds of like cheerleading posts about building your small business.
[00:13:05] People are going to be all about like commenting and liking and you know, so then for that kind of effect, That would be inappropriate metrics. So kind of starting with like, let’s be realistic, like who are our people and what is a normal expectation for what they’re going to want to do when they engage with our social media account makes so much sense.
[00:13:26] Okay. So what, what else can people and lawyers and specifically, like what can they do to kind of. Avoid that overwhelm and just kind of the feeling of social media, just being just such a giant project.
[00:13:43] Andrea: yes. The next thing I recommend is looking at getting support and outsourcing or hiring someone to help you with this because social media is becoming its own entity and it is a full-time job. For a lot of people, myself included. So when you think about all of the things you’re trying to do, and if you want to have a bigger impact, what I’ve outlined previously is if just really to get you started, but to take things to the next level, you definitely want to consider hiring and getting support, whether that be looking at an agency or an intern or a virtual.
[00:14:16] You know, really getting someone in there who can kind of take the essence of your brand and put it on social media. And the great thing about also outsourcing is it forces you to. Really start thinking about that ROI component. So if I’m now paying someone else to do this, I have to get a return on my investment.
[00:14:35] And then it also forces you to think about, you know, how you’re showing up as a brand. What’s your message on social media? Because I work with some lawyers. I have a criminal defense lawyer who I worked with in the past and some of her language was coming across. With a lot of jargon on social media and we came in and like really revamped it so that the everyday person could understand what she’s talking about when she’s offering.
[00:15:00] And so that could really help you with that. Transactional.
[00:15:04] Karin: Yeah, I find this is one of the places for lawyers that takes a lot of education where you’ve gone to law school, you have this you know, advanced degree. You’re very intelligent group, but you did. Have marketing courses, you didn’t. I went to business school, I have an MBA. I learned a whole set of different things that you didn’t learn in law school.
[00:15:27] And so you. I assume that, you know, just because you went to law school, that you have that knowledge and I, you know, for the same reason, I don’t assume that just because I went to grad school and I’m a smart person that I understand the law. And so I’m going to hire a lawyer when I need help for that kind of work.
[00:15:44] And so, you know, for the same reason, you should hire someone who knows this and can really represent you. And can communicate in a marketing way to your audience that is not using that legal language. And it’s, it’s two totally different kinds of language. And so you’re going to find someone who understands that you’re going to find someone who can really communicate that and, and it’s going to be consistent.
[00:16:08] Let’s be honest. The goal is for you to not have time to do this. The goal is for you to pull in enough traffic and business that this, this shouldn’t be on your plate. This should be someone who’s solely focused on. And you’re busy over there with all those clients that that person pulled in doing the work that you went to school for.
[00:16:28] So, you know, that’s, that should be the end result of it. And if it’s not, then, then you’re coming back to the point you made about ROI. Then you’re not getting that return on your investment. You might need to tweak your plans accordingly.
[00:16:40] Andrea: Yeah, exactly. And when we think about the ROI component, especially, you know, some of this is more of a long-term play. Beautiful thing about social media versus say like a billboard or a radio ad is that you do have way more data. You do have way more access points, so you can actually see what’s working and you can actually kind of make adjustments in real time versus putting up a billboard, signing a contract for three months and then hoping it
[00:17:08] Karin: Right. And then like the billboard, how many times have you seen those billboards where like, it’s kind of half peeling off and like, it looked so bad or there’s like, there’s a problem. They put your phone number up wrong or something like that, you know, what are you going to do? Like that billboard is there.
[00:17:23] It’s been printed and it’s stuck. And, you know, whereas like social media. Throw in some more posts add, you know, whatever content is trending and adjust for. What’s working too. Yeah. That’s, that’s such a good point too. It’s not this kind of fixed fixed in concrete idea. You can keep. Refining and adjusting for, for what’s working.
[00:17:46] So Andrea tell me, you know, that our audience is full of lawyers who don’t have time for a book. That’s not worth it. So what’s the book that you want to recommend. That’s that is worth it.
[00:17:57] Andrea: yes, I’ve been enjoying dare to lead by Bernay brown. If you haven’t read it. Definitely pick it up, especially if you’re you’re growing right. You you’re going to have other people that are going to rely on your business for their livelihood as well. It’s just a beautiful book about how to manage those people.
[00:18:16] So if you’re thinking about bringing on a social media manager or a paralegal, How do you have them do the things that you want them to do, basically in a way that is still genuine to yourself and your business and your value. So truly enjoyed the book, taught me a lot about communication with.
[00:18:34] Karin: So what are some points in that? Because I feel like this is another area that you don’t really learn in school about leadership and how to organize a team in a way that. You know, when you’re starting a business, like you and I have started businesses, or these lawyers are starting businesses and we do things, you know, usually you’re starting it and it’s, you’re doing all of it and you’re kind of making the plan.
[00:18:57] You’re it’s a one person operation. And so you have your way and how do you get that all out of your head and into those other people’s head in a way that it’s not micromanage.
[00:19:10] Andrea: yes.
[00:19:10] honestly, I’m a very fast moving person in my business. And so I really struggled with hiring people who can move at that speed. And part of what I’ve learned in this book is the power of conversation. I used to think if I could just assign them a task, send them the task, like breakdown. It should just be done.
[00:19:27] No question. But what I learned through this book was actually having a meeting about it, having a conversation, talking through, asking them what questions they have and leaving space in silence for them to actually come to me with questions and comments and concerns, and even additional thoughts thinks I would have never thought of to actually improve that process.
[00:19:50] It requires a level of vulnerability to kind of leave that, that space open. And it’s truly made like, I, I read about a year and a half ago now and it’s made a huge difference in our team. We’ve, you know, increased our team member retention as well as improved our services, just because we now have space to have these conversations.
[00:20:13] It’s not Andrea’s way or the highway it’s, you know, more of a team.
[00:20:18] Karin: Yeah, it’s hard because this is, you know, my business is my first baby. And so I don’t want someone to come in and think, first of all, nobody knows it as well as I do. And so it’s, so it’s such a challenge to kind of hand over a piece and trust people that they’re going to be able to do it. Right. But at the same time, if you don’t offer that trust, then.
[00:20:42] It’s your, you’re ruining your relationship with that person. So it’s such a hard balance to find that middle point where you’re just kind of like handing it over and closing your eyes and like crossing your fingers. Please do a right.
[00:20:56] Andrea: Yes, especially when you’re the expert, right. When you are, and you’re the face or the name of the business, it’s so hard to, to let go of that trust. But honestly, once you do get to that spot, it’s painful to go through. But the other side feels a really.
[00:21:13] Karin: Yeah. And I think your point about there that, that open space where you can offer that space for them to come in and add things to this conversation that there’s things that you can’t even think about. So you know, it’s, it’s hand in hand with everything we’re talking about, even outsourcing your social media.
[00:21:31] Because there are avenues and. And ideas and thoughts about how to approach a social media campaign or whatever you’re handing your team that you might not have considered. And, you know, the person that you’re outsourcing it to is going to come in and offer all this, this insight that is going to take it to that whole next level.
[00:21:54] And so that’s the, I, you know, that’s the goal in the end is to have this team that does things even better than, than you could have done it all by yourself. And at some point. You know, I’m sure your team is like mine. At some point, I look at all the work that we get done in any given day, and I literally could not do that, those things myself.
[00:22:14] So you know, all of the heartache and kind of an angst in setting it up should be worth it in the.
[00:22:21] Andrea: Oh, yeah. Yeah. And it also builds so much trust with your clients as well. When they can see this well oiled operation and see how much you trust your team, then they start trusting your team as well. And it. build the business. Like we get so many more testimonials now because of the.
[00:22:41] team and it’s not just me.
[00:22:43] And so, Yeah. I I’m
[00:22:45] Karin: Yeah, Yeah, no, that’s a great book. We will link the book in the show notes on the, on the show page and you know, everything, I love everything Bernay brown does, but this is so particularly specific and appropriate for this conversation in terms of just, you know, the overwhelm social media in general, but then also how you build your firm or your business and kind of figure.
[00:23:07] Trust and kind of give that over in, in order to get to those, those levels that you’re, you’re kind of hoping for. So Andrea, what is one big takeaway that you would like the listeners to get from this episode?
[00:23:20] Andrea: Yeah.
[00:23:21] So when you’re thinking about social media, the biggest takeaway that I can give to you is to really give yourself boundaries around it. Cause if you don’t build those boundaries, you’ll get caught up in. The emotions of it, all the comparison, the feeling like you’re not enough, the overwhelm, all of those things.
[00:23:38] So build your boundaries around social media. You know, one of my favorites is I don’t have any notifications on my
[00:23:44] Karin: Oh, wow. That’s
[00:23:45] Andrea: Like for social it, even though I work in it and I live and breathe it every day, because it’s those moments where I want to be off, I need to be disconnected and spend time with my family.
[00:23:55] I don’t want a notification pulling me back into that world again. And so for me, that’s, that’s a big boundary. So, you know, figuring out what your boundaries are around social media, we’re really helping you navigate that marketing.
[00:24:06] Karin: Yeah. Oh, I love that. That’s and especially coming from someone who you know, their entire business is in social media to hear that you have all those notifications turned off. That’s, that’s a nice little piece of permission for the rest of us. Like, if you can do it, the rest of us can do that too. And so you know, set those time boundaries, set your.
[00:24:25] Your realistic goals for what you think your clients are going to do. So put the boundaries around that, don’t look at what somebody down the road is doing and then set your own personal boundaries around it. And then, and it just seems like all of those make for a healthier person, just mentally and a more realistic expectation of results as well.
[00:24:45] So that, that is some great. I really appreciate that. So Andrea Jones is a social media strategist at online Draya, and we will of course, link to all of your social media accounts and website and the book that you recommended on the, the page. But thank you so much for being here. I appreciate your time so much.
[00:25:05] Andrea: oh, thank you for having. This has been fun.
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|Published:||April 26, 2022|
|Category:||Marketing for Law Firms|
The podcast that provides the expertise of a Marketing Co-Counsel for your law firm. Where your firm gets answers and clarity to your marketing questions.