What is a buyer persona and how is it important to your law firm? with Stormie Andrews

Episode Notes

Transcript

[00:00:00] 

[00:00:27] Stormie: Hey, there’s a stormy Andrews. I am so excited to be with you today. I am the creator of the world’s best buyer persona system, and it’s technically a system to help you attract the clients that you really want to do business with as it pertains to your law firms while repelling the clients that you’re not interested in attracting to your firm.

[00:00:45] And I’m just excited to be here with you today.

[00:00:48] Karin: Thank you so much for being here. Stormy. I feel like. It’s somewhat of a controversial topic that, you shouldn’t just open the door and let anybody walk through it. So this is going to be a great conversation. [00:01:00] And I feel like as soon as we start talking about the word persona and these kinds of things, oftentimes people’s eyes glaze over. and They have no idea what we’re talking about.

[00:01:08] So I’m looking forward to clarifying this and making it understandable for lawyers. So I know we both have worked with lawyers. a lot, and so this is going to be a great conscience.

[00:01:19] So let’s get started with the question on everyone’s mind. The big question of this episode is what is a buyer persona and how is it important to your law firm?

[00:01:31] I was kind of a lead up to that, so let’s start. What what is that? What’s a buyer persona. 

[00:01:37] Stormie: Yeah. So a buyer persona is a fictional representation of your ideal client. And let’s think about this for a moment. Let’s think about all the clients that you’ve done business with that you’ve represented over the course of the past year. Some you’ve said to yourself, I know you’ve done it where you said, I wish I could get more clients.

[00:01:57] That thought like this that were very similar [00:02:00] in characteristics to that particular person, but you also had clients that you’ve done business with that maybe at the very beginning, you knew that, oh, this probably isn’t going to be the most ideal scenario, but you went ahead and did it anyway. And your instincts were correct.

[00:02:14] Think of a buyer persona, at least when it comes to the system that I’ve created, the world’s best buyer persona system, it’s a system to help you address. Your most ideal clients. So you create this fictional representation of your ideal clients and that guides you along the path to create messaging.

[00:02:31] That’s going to attract people that think that way that have similar pain points, issues, and concerns that where you have the greatest ability to step in and help. 

[00:02:40] Karin: Okay. So I’m gonna play devil’s advocate for a moment. Why is my ideal client not. just someone who pays their bill, 

[00:02:50] Stormie: Okay. And in some cases it could be, but there’s one of the exercises we go through is, is rating the [00:03:00] type of customers you’re doing with, or the type of clients that, that you do that you work with as it pertains to your law firm, there’s profitability and desirability.

[00:03:08] It’s fair to say that you have clients that do pay their bills. That fun to work with. Maybe they’re they take more of your energy time and effort where in reality, it’s just not worth the payment that comes in, but you continue down that process for whatever your motivations may be. So paying the bill, they’re supposed to do that, right.

[00:03:30] That that’s the expectation. And just having people that pay your bills or, you know, that pay their bills. Isn’t 

[00:03:37] Karin: the bar pretty low, 

[00:03:39] Stormie: absolutely. You’re definitely setting. 

[00:03:41] Karin: Yeah. And so I feel like that’s, an important distinction is to talk about. You know, the profitability part is pretty obvious. The desirability part is where when, when you first start out and I’m sure, for myself, even starting out in business, I have these clear memories of clients you [00:04:00] know, just opening the door, letting anybody in and clients saying all kinds of.

[00:04:03] things Where it’s like, well, you know, what other kinds of work do you do? And it’s like, I don’t know. You tell me, what do you need? I’ll take anything, you know, are you gonna pay me for that. That’s great. But over time there were these signals and I think what you mentioned earlier about this kind of gut instinct about I feel like our gut knows so much more than just this kind of, surface level thought process we have on a, on a daily basis.

[00:04:27] And. so how do you talk about desirability? How do you define that? And then how how do you translate that into this ideal client? idea? 

[00:04:35] Stormie: Yeah, usually it comes down to messaging. You know, one of the things where I think a lot of law firms go wrong when it comes to their marketing, when it comes to their advertising messages, Their messaging is what I consider to be.

[00:04:47] So what me, two statements. If I look at you know, this law firm and that law firm and the other law firm, you’re all saying exactly the same thing. And that’s a huge problem in why is that? Well, [00:05:00] one, because there hasn’t been enough energy and effort put into discovering the, the, the characteristics and the qualities that you want to do business with.

[00:05:10] So you create messaging that we can. And where the best law firm. And we do this, we do that. It’s so what me too, everyone saying the exact same thing,  but when you start creating messaging, that’s designed to resonate with the emotions of a certain portion of the population.  You’ll find that your messaging will do a much better job of attracting the people experiencing the same emotions.

[00:05:32] You see studies have shown that 80% of our decisions. Are based on emotions. It’s not based on logic. So why wouldn’t you have emotion-based marketing and if you haven’t spent the time figuring out are documenting what those emotions are, what potential triggering events are, how in the world are you going to create digital messaging that’s designed to attract those individuals and what that leads to.

[00:05:56] Advertising campaigns that are not as effective as they should be. You know, [00:06:00] traditional advertising campaigns, not as effective as they could be. And it’s all because there wasn’t enough energy and effort placed on the emotions, the triggering events and, and understanding the noise that’s out there as it pertains to your ideal clients.

[00:06:14] Karin: Yeah. My favorite example of this and

[00:06:16] I can’t tell you the number of times I brought this up in when talking to to firms is that the message is we are X law firm and Y city doing Z practice area. And then bam, a picture of a skyline and it’s like, what does the skyline have to do with anything? Why are we, Why are we, 

[00:06:32] putting a picture of. Yeah, who cares? I mean, Okay. They’re buildings. what does that have to do? You know? It was basically um, okay. Let’s look out the window Our offices here.

[00:06:42] Let’s do a picture of that. I, I don’t know. what else. And so it just shows a lack of depth in the overall strategy, and. my opinion. And, and then it just doesn’t work out. So a lot of firms when they initially are talking to me. They, they talk about how they don’t really know if marketing is worth it. They don’t know.

[00:06:59] [00:07:00] you know, they’ve been doing this web.

[00:07:01] Or they’ve had some kind of website or online presence, but it doesn’t do anything. And so what’s the downside you know, you started to allude to this idea, of when you don’t have this thought and you don’t have this, effort put into the clients you’re going for, you know, what’s the downside.

[00:07:17] What’s what, what happens. And I mean, I I’m leading you to that answer because you know, this is where they’re usually coming into to talk to probably URI. Because they’re like, I dunno, I don’t I don’t think it does anything. 

[00:07:29] Stormie: Yeah. And usually in many cases, it is, let me tell you why it doesn’t do anything because in many cases it doesn’t because here’s what happens.

[00:07:37] And, and, and I’m sure Karen, you can relate to this with the law firms that you’ve spoken to. The law firm says I need to do some marketing and advertising because that’s what I was told to do. So the hire some kid or some person and say, listen, I need to do some advertising. And I was told I was supposed to have a 10, 10,000.

[00:07:56] So they say, do what you need to do. So now this kid, [00:08:00] or this inexperienced person is supposed to put an ad campaign. That’s supposed to attract business to your law firm while you’re just, you’re just throwing money out there, hoping that it works because this kid doesn’t know it, that there hasn’t been any effective transfer of knowledge.

[00:08:15] And that. What the world’s best buyer persona system does. It’s a process where you go through a series of questions where you can create a narrative where it allows you to have that effective transfer of knowledge, the knowledge that you have when you’re sitting there with a client that’s experiencing an extraordinary amount of pain going through whatever issues that they’re going through.

[00:08:36] How do you articulate that into a document that you can share with the person that’s supposed to be doing your paid. Without doing it. Well, it probably isn’t effective. You may get lucky. You may have this lottery approach to marketing where you may get lucky every now and then, but that’s not the way that you want to, 

[00:08:53] Karin: It 

[00:08:53] doesn’t work crossing your 

[00:08:54] fingers is not a marketing strategy. 

[00:08:57] Stormie: Absolutely, 

[00:08:58] Karin: kind of, you know, [00:09:00] hoping that’s not a strategy. So to follow up on what you said, so how do we use. kind of put that together and get that transfer of knowledge so that it. is Clear and understandable to anyone who comes into any part of your marketing system and your marketing systems should be more than just one idea of, okay, we’re going to do some social media.

[00:09:22] Let’s just do that and cross our fingers. Or there’s a website, there should be a whole system of different approaches with your marketing, but how do you get that buyer persona? as a critical part of that wholesale? 

[00:09:33] Stormie: So typically the first thing that I do I recommend that law firms do a self-assessment and there’s something that I have called the success wheel.

[00:09:41] So it’s a, the ability of looking at your marketing, breaking it down into eight individual components. So imagine if you had a wheel or a slight, a pizza with eight slices, right? Each slice is a section of your marketing. And that’s what I call the success. And then we have you grade it because each of these areas need to have their own strategy.[00:10:00] 

[00:10:00] They need to have their own KPIs, you know, the, your definition of success and they need to have their own tools and tactics. It’s not a one size fit, all approach occurring. Can I just share what those eight areas are for just a moment?

[00:10:11] Karin: Yes, absolutely. I’d love to. 

[00:10:13] Stormie: The first area is awareness. How would you rate yourself? What grade would you give yourself in regards to awareness? If I was looking for an attorney that practices in your area, how are, where are you? And I have you grade yourself on a scale of giving yourself an, a, B, C, D, or F, right. 

[00:10:28] Karin: And what do you mean by awareness.

[00:10:29] because I know a lot of attorneys are going to take that as how, well their Google ranking is and just pure SEO? Is that what you mean? Because. I feel like that’s too narrow of a deficit. 

[00:10:41] Stormie: That is. So what happens when we think about awareness within your marketplace, if I’m a stranger to your brand and I’m looking for your goods and services or, that’s one way.

[00:10:51] So if I’m looking for your, area of practice, are you going to show up? I mean, that’s, that’s the first piece. That’s in the world of Google and [00:11:00] sometimes some law firms they’re not concerned about Google. They’re more interested in your traditional advertising. So they have, they’re running lots of commercials billboards, but the question is, if strangers are in need of your goods and services, are they going to find themselves aware of your brand when they find themselves in that place?

[00:11:16] That’s an important place to start. And that’s only one. And you hit them. All right. On the head, oftentimes law firms, they’re only concerned about that element. They’re putting lots of money into SEO and they’re like, Hey, I’m number one on Google or I’m on the first page. Okay. That’s one 

[00:11:29] Karin: Yeah, Don and dusted. 

[00:11:31] Stormie: Absolutely. And the next scenario is how would you rate yourself in terms of. So are people engaging with your brand, whether that be from your email marketing, whether that be from social media, blog, posts, videos, whatever content, whatever type of messaging you’re putting out into the universe, are people engaging with it?

[00:11:49] If not, that may be an issue and that may be room for improvement, right? 

[00:11:52] Karin: Yeah. I think this is really important. And I talk to firms a lot about this because like you said, 

[00:11:58] step one, you’ve got a pizza [00:12:00] with eight pieces and you’ve only, we’re only getting into step two so far, but step one is where a lot of people think that’s that’s it.

[00:12:07] And they focus so much on the SEO. And then I say, okay, so then what happens like SEO does not create a client for you? So then what happens? They, either need to land your website, or if they’re seeing a billboard, they have to pick up the phone What is your process for that. And, and they kind of, you know, deer in the headlights look. And so there are these critical steps that if you’re dumping all of this money into step one and not doing the rest of it, it is like lighting money on fire. I mean, it’s just such a. 

[00:12:39] Okay. So step, two engagement. Are they actually, when you are ranking or when they are seeing your billboard or your commercial, are they responding? 

[00:12:48] Stormie: Absolutely. it’s not uncommon for someone to give the, to be doing an incredible job in terms of awareness, where they have a score of an a, and then their engagement grades and F or a 

[00:12:57] D 

[00:12:57] Karin: once you kind of go through these steps and you see, okay.

[00:12:59] [00:13:00] My grade here is an a, and then it drops off here. It’s like, oh, this is where I need to be fixed. Fixing things. 

[00:13:06] Stormie: That’s correct. You hit the nail right on the head and there’s eight of them. Right. And we’ve only talked about two and you hit the nail right on the head. The next one is lead generation. That’s pretty easy. Are you generating any leads you see, oftentimes when you speak, I use the term of youngster and that may not be fair, but when you speak into the person who’s doing.

[00:13:22] Your marketing and advertising. Sometimes they have these vanity metrics are like, Hey, guess what? We’ve had 3,552 clicks or, you know, impressions or whatever number they want to throw out there. Okay. That a generate any leads to, you know, 

[00:13:37] Karin: Right. Did it work? 

[00:13:39] Stormie: Did it work? 

[00:13:39] And then the question is if the leads that are generated, what’s your definition of success?

[00:13:44] Have you even identified a definition of success because if you have it now, you’re leaving it up to someone else to define what success is. And usually you do are going to be in two different pages. 

[00:13:54] Karin: Oh, I love that. That is such an important point that I know we are going to [00:14:00] highlight when we are publishing this episode who is defining your success.

[00:14:05] It needs to be. 

[00:14:05] you. Okay. So three is lead generation. 

[00:14:09] Stormie: They’re easily. Now what about conversion optimization? Right. So you can be getting leads, but if the leads are the wrong leads or they’re just not converting well, we may have a conversion optimization problem, right? So we look at, you know, awareness, engagement, lead generation conversion optimization, the next stage, or the next area we’ll look at is something that I call.

[00:14:30] Wow. And this is an extraordinary opportunity that you have as a law. And this is that once the person comes in, they meet, with you. They write the check, give you their credit card. They become a customer. If you could imagine. And if you were to put yourself in their shoes, there’s, their tension is usually high they’re in a situation that they’re not used to being in their sphere.

[00:14:55] There’s trepidation, there’s all sorts of emotions that are going on. There’s a [00:15:00] strong possibility that even though they signed the check and they’ve given you the credit. You did win the business, but there may be other considerations. They were considering law firm, B law firms. See the person that uncle Joe recommended and with that, wow.

[00:15:15] What systems and processes do you have in place to Weill them immediately after they became a customer? So this way that tension can drop. And put them in a position where they have this warm and fuzzy to have more confidence in the decision that they just made. And that’s up to you.

[00:15:33] Karin: Okay. So what’s an example of how uh, you or one of your clients has done that Wow. thing, because that’s the kind of piece that doesn’t come natural to me where it’s like, okay, I’m eager once we’ve got a new project or a new client I’m eager to get started. Let’s just start checking things off.

[00:15:48] the list. what is that piece where we can bring them to that 

[00:15:52] point 

[00:15:52] of 

[00:15:53] Stormie: So, you know, it, it varies on your salad. My recommendation is that it’s something that feels natural [00:16:00] for you. It can be something to where you have a process to where once they come on board, it could be something as simple as just a.

[00:16:09] Check in where you say, okay, you’ve come on board today. We have a process that you’re going to have an immediate check in 48 hours from now a week from now. And during that, check-in I’m going to provide you additional added value, benefits, and resources, just something that makes them warm and fuzzy that, wow, this is different than I anticipated.

[00:16:29] And this attorney seems to care more about me, because remember, if you think about the vast majority of your customers, they feel that their situation or their, your, your clientele, they feel that their situation is unique. No, one’s gone through this experience and they want to have you because you understand their scenario.

[00:16:49] So how can you create an additional personalized touchpoint that’s predefined that happens every single time. 

[00:16:57] Karin: And feels very personal. 

[00:16:59] Stormie: Absolutely. [00:17:00] It works wonders expecially as we get into the other areas of the success will. Right. you know, so now we looked at wow, 

[00:17:09] Karin: And that’s was 

[00:17:09] number six or number seven? 

[00:17:11] Stormie: Uh, So what, what did we, we we’ve done awareness.

[00:17:14] Am I holding up my fingers here? Right? 

[00:17:15] Because you want the numbers. So there’s a awareness engagement, lead generation conversion optimization, and wow. So that’s number five. So now we’re about to go to number six, and this is the customer ladder. 

[00:17:30] Karin: Okay. That sounds very marketing speak. 

[00:17:33] Stormie: it is marketing speak, right.

[00:17:35] And it, and it’s having a process. And you know, maybe it’s a process to enhance the relationships with your clientele. So I’m going to use this definition that may not necessarily agree with your definition because as a law firm, we like to think of everyone as being a client, but for this exercise, I want you to think that if someone reaches out to you, they do business with you.

[00:17:57] The lowest level of the customer letter is a [00:18:00] customer. That definition is someone. Had an issue they’ve done business with you. They reached out to you a next level would be a client and a client is someone that if they have any legal matter, you don’t any issue whatsoever that you’re going to be top of mind, even if it’s outside your area of practice, because they have a higher level of trust.

[00:18:20] They want to reach out to you to send them to the right person because they really, really trust you. And that’s a better position to have more clients than. But in an even better position would be an advocate. An advocate is someone that advocates your brand. They tell others about you when asked, but, but the, the highest levels of raving fan, they’re so thrilled with what you bring to the table, win or lose probably better if you win.

[00:18:43] Right. But they’re so thrilled by what you bring to the table that they couldn’t imagine anyone being in the same situation and not reaching out to you because you’re in. And issue is, do you have a structured process in place that helps elevate more of your [00:19:00] customers to clients, more clients, to advocates, more advocates to raving fans?

[00:19:02] Or is it just purely organic? 

[00:19:05] Because if you’re running a good firm, it’s going to happen organically, but if you can increase those percentages ever so slightly, it makes a world of difference to the phone ringing. It makes a world of difference. Individuals walking through your door because it’s the raving fans.

[00:19:20] You’ve got a few of them. Those are the ones That are just gold. 

[00:19:23] Karin: they’re all value. And this, I feel like this is the goal of any brand. So the raving fan idea, this is how I feel about trader Joe’s. And so I don’t know if you are a trader person or you have that near you, but every, I would say pretty much every time I go into my trader Joe’s, I have.

[00:19:42] some Little experience and whether it’s finding some little treat or my regular interaction with pretty much everybody that works there and it’s something to talk And so I will tell my neighbors, I will tell my friends, did you see this new thing? Let me tell you about this [00:20:00] funny thing This trader Joe’s person said to me, and I will never not live near a trader Joe’s because it is, it stands out it’s unique. And so How can people do that? How can people elevate their customers up to the clients up to, you know, through the scales so that they can really push them up towards that raving 

[00:20:20] fan 

[00:20:21] Stormie: Well, it varies from firm to firm let me back up really quick, as a matter of fact, can I give you the next two?

[00:20:28] And then it, can I circle 

[00:20:29] back 

[00:20:29] to that question? Because that question? is so relevant, but it applies to all leaders. Because the next two are pretty easy. The next one is reviews. 

[00:20:39] you know what, you’re a stranger I’m looking to choose a law firm. Well in the area that you practice and your market, how are you doing in terms of reviews like it or not, strangers to your brand are going to check you out on different sites to see what others have said about you.

[00:20:57] How are you doing in terms of quality and. [00:21:00] That’s an important component because that also directly will have a direct impact on your conversion optimization 

[00:21:06] and your lead generation. 

[00:21:08] Karin: And depending on your practice areas, there’s a lot of practice areas where people don’t want to ask their friends.

[00:21:13] You know, if you are a criminal defense attorney, people don’t want to talk about uh, you know, I have this issue and ask their friends for a referral. So they are going to heavily depend on those reviews. And there’s a reason why reviews are. such a core backbone of the whole Amazon method and that we all look at them and we all care about what people are saying. 

[00:21:33] So 

[00:21:33] it’s, it’s 

[00:21:34] really. 

[00:21:35] Stormie: absolutely. And the last element of the success wheel, our referrals, 

[00:21:42] are they happening? Right? Are you getting referrals from your clientele in this. Is once again, the three elements that you need for all eight of these, you need to have a strategy, a written strategy. You need to have your definition of success and the tools and tactics that you’re going to use.

[00:21:57] It’s not 

[00:21:58] the same for all eight, [00:22:00] right? 

[00:22:00] Karin: Yeah, right. Okay. So all eight. And we’re going to come back to this idea of how do you move people through that, is that the customer ladder? Is that what you called it? The step Six where you’re moving them up towards the raving fan. And is it those three elements, the strategy and the tactics and having all of those pieces in place automatically pushes them through, or you have to have a separate strategy. just for that. 

[00:22:23] Stormie: Yeah. So all eight of the elements that I just shared with you may have their own strategy. They’ll have their own individual tools and tactics and they’ll have their own definition of success. And that’s how you get clarity in terms of your market. Remember, I called this a successful, even though I used a pizza slice, you know, our, our, our pizza pie as the example.

[00:22:42] But if we stick with the pizza, when you get a pizza to go, there’s that little round disc that sits in the middle of the, the, the pizza box, right?

[00:22:49] Karin: I love these visuals. 

[00:22:52] Stormie: If it were a wheel all wheels have a hub, a hub connects to the axle that allows the wheel to spin. Well, how [00:23:00] effective can you. At creating a strategy and all eight of those areas. If you haven’t put considerable attention in detail in determining the mindset, the emotions, the triggering events, creating the, the messaging in regards to why strangers should trust you, why strangers should perceive you as being an authority in the market.

[00:23:22] If you haven’t put that energy and effort into. I believe well, I know, but, but it’s going to be significantly more difficult to create a strategy for any of those areas, especially, you know, the, the customer ladder. And that’s why I create it. You don’t have the world’s best buyer persona system. It’s a system that helps you create that white disc that sits at the center of the pizza box or the, the hub of the wheel it’s connected to all eight.

[00:23:51] The more time attention in detail, you put into your ideal clients are pain points or struggles or weaknesses, their emotions, their belief systems, the better the [00:24:00] strategy you can execute and implement for the eight areas that we just discussed. 

[00:24:04] Karin: Okay. I think that makes so much sense because like you said, I mean, it, going back to the beginning of the conversation where we were talking about these firms, that just have a big picture of a skyline, Where does that fit into any of this? it? doesn’t. And so you can instantly have this whole pizza with the hub and your strategy, and look at these decisions that you have to make as you’re going through the creation of your firm revisions and, adjusting as needed and saying, okay, which of these, pieces aren’t working.

[00:24:36] And then which of these pieces have pieces, you know, like maybe a skyline picture that has no relation To this overall strategy. And so it, it kind of gives 

[00:24:45] you that framework that I think that’s a really missing piece for a lot of marketing approaches where they’re just kind of, like you said, there are people who just kind of jump in and try some 

[00:24:54] sort of tactic without the strategy in place.

[00:24:57] I think that’s great. So, stormy, as you know, our [00:25:00] audience is full of Tyrrells lawyers who don’t have time to read books That aren’t worth it. So what is a book that you’ve read that is worth it that hopefully kind of ties this all together with this idea of you know, strategy by our personas, figuring out their pain points.

[00:25:15] What’s a 

[00:25:15] good book that you have. to. 

[00:25:16] Stormie: Well, first I’d recommend my book, right. But if I have to take that one out of the equation, I’m going to give you two, right. 

[00:25:22] Karin: we’ll link to your book also. 

[00:25:24] Stormie: You okay? Yeah. So my book, the world’s best buyer persona system, I definitely recommend that in book format or even the audible format that recently came out and it’s amazing, 

[00:25:32] but, Is a book that I love.

[00:25:35] It’s not about buyer personas, but it’s a great book that I think every law firm should read. It’s called never split the difference. 

[00:25:42] Karin: Oh, that’s a great one. 

[00:25:45] Stormie: Isn’t it he was a, a FBI hostage negotiator, and the nuggets that he provides in that book, I think are absolutely incredible. 

[00:25:54] Karin: What did you take away from that book that would be like kind of a summary statement or some kind of, [00:26:00] one little nugget of good stuff that people would want to know 

[00:26:03] about that 

[00:26:03] book. if 

[00:26:04] they if they don’t have time for. 

[00:26:06] Stormie: A simple email reply, you know, asking people, did they give up on you? That’s been a very effective strategy when you send emails out to people and you don’t get a reply. 

[00:26:17] He came up with a strategy that’s, that’s effective. The replies of emails for people that have gone cold have increased dramatically.

[00:26:24] It’s something that I haven’t tracked, but it’s definitely increased significantly. I thought it was. 

[00:26:31] Karin: Yeah, there’s a in a lot of groups that I’m part of. There’s the, it’s called the magic email and there’s a few variations on it, but it’s very quick. It’s maybe two lines and it basically says I haven’t heard back.

[00:26:46] I have to assume that you’ve made other decisions that your priorities have changed some variation of that. And because of the psychology. of this Message. It just instantly triggers something and it [00:27:00] works for, 

[00:27:01] Emails that have gone cold and they’ve just completely ignored you sometimes for ages and ages.

[00:27:05] And All of a sudden they get this email and bam, you get a response. It’s amazing. Uh, So the one that I’ve seen and and use it’s called the magic email. And if you Google it, I’m sure You’ll you’ll find that version. So what’s one big takeaway that you would want listeners to get from this overall episode? Just generally talking about what, what is the buyer persona and, and you know how how it’s so important, these amazing 

[00:27:25] eight pieces of the. 

[00:27:27] Stormie: Yeah. The one big takeaway that I would want you to take from this year is to get clarity on your marketing, get clarity in regards to what should be happening, what shouldn’t be happening if you’re leaving it to someone else. That may be a mistake if you’re not involved.

[00:27:45] At least in regards to, to, to having a strategy in place, having the predefined KPIs. So this way you and whoever is helping you with your marketing can have this synergistic approach in regards to what success is. And, and, and you know what[00:28:00] Caryn that that’s prob that’s just such a big issue because oftentimes.

[00:28:04] I’ve seen that law firms and the person in charge of marketing, that conversation has never happened where one side thinks they’re winning. The other side thinks they’re losing and no one decided or made the decision to sit down and talk about it and figure it out or even know how to figure it out.

[00:28:22] And I think that’s where the success wheel comes into play, where it really helps give you clarity where you can break things down into bite-sized. And have greater clarity and greater success moving forward. I don’t know if that’s one thing to focus on, but, 

[00:28:37] Karin: I think it is. And then all of a sudden, just the clouds part and all, and you know, these challenges and frustrations that you have in whatever it is you’re trying to accomplish.

[00:28:47] All of a sudden, it’s just clear you’ve got the the path forward. And, you know, you just have to kind of, you know, drive along that path instead of sort of. meandering on this, You know, pathway that you don’t, you’re not even sure if it’s quite right or you’re doing it, but you’re just kind of [00:29:00] trying stuff and throwing it up against the wall.

[00:29:01] And, 

[00:29:02] it doesn’t feel good that way either. Well, I think that’s so valuable and stormy, thank you so much for being here. Stormy. Andrews is the creator of the world’s best buyer persona system. we will link to your book and the audio version in the episode page, and he’s also the co-founder of YOKA 

[00:29:19] local.

[00:29:20] Thanks 

[00:29:20] again for 

[00:29:20] being here. I really appreciate it. 

[00:29:22] Stormie: it.

[00:29:24]