What mistakes do lawyers make with content? with Davina Frederick

Episode Notes

Transcript

[00:00:00] 

[00:00:34] Davina: Hi, I’m Devina Frederick. I’m a Florida licensed attorney, a law firm, growth strategist, and the founder of wealthy woman, lawyer, wealthy woman, lawyer serves women law firm owners who want to scale their law firm business to and through a million dollars in gross annual revenue.

[00:00:52] Karen, it’s nice to meet you 

[00:00:54] Karin: it’s so great to have you thank you so much for being here and you have had really great success with your own podcast. We chatted, I want to say it was maybe a year or so ago on your podcast and it’s got, I love following it because you’ve got great. Guests obviously, because you had me but it also really covers a very specific niche.

[00:01:19] so I wanted to talk to you about that. And then I will also introduce our big question for today is going to be, what are the top mistakes that law firm owners make with content marketing. But before that, I want you to spend a minute just talking about that idea of niche niche.

[00:01:35] What? I don’t know. What do you think is the right pronunciation to start?

[00:01:39] Davina: I say niching down, but I, I Nisha ain’t, you know, like, but you know, some people say niche niching, so it does not, I don’t know. I don’t know if we’re going to be grammatically correct today, but that’s what I say. We’re going to go

[00:01:49] Karin: Okay, sounds good. We’ll we’ll say niche. And I got a lot of kickback when I decided to only work with lawyers from some of my MBA friends about how they thought I was shooting myself in the foot. And so I know personally how that, can be perceived incorrectly. Uh, But I also have seen so many of my clients be fearful of that and worry about.

[00:02:12] Basically just making enough money for that to work. And I feel like it, I know personally that it’s a backwards approach, but tell me what your thoughts are and how, how that’s worked.

[00:02:22] Davina: Well, it’s worked out really well for me. but if I did start out with a women law firm owners, I started out, I I’m an attorney and I have a background in business and marketing. And so I, when I started this business, I started it under a different name and it was really about. Helping small business owners develop strategies in service-based businesses, which is what my background is in engineering and law firms and the like, and.

[00:02:46] The people attract most attracted to me were other women law firm owners, because I had started my own successful law firm business right out of law school and grown it very successfully. And so they wanted to know how I did that. And so naturally that’s who I was attracting. And I worked with both men and women for awhile off her owners, but I remembered someone once said to me that. If you’re speaking to everyone, you’re speaking to no one. And I think a cocktail party syndrome, I don’t know if you’ve ever heard of cocktail party syndrome, but that’s when you’re out someplace and you hear your name. When you hear your name. If you’re sitting here talking to somebody, you hear your name, you automatically out of all the sounds that you hear that catches your attention and you turn it into look, and he goes, who’s talking about me, he’s calling my name That is really the principle that I have applied when I’m creating the speech. When I’m saying I’m speaking to women law firm owners, that is going to be a very different More dialed in approach and conversation. There can be just things that I discussed with him in law firm owners that I would not discuss with men law firm owners, let’s 

[00:03:49] say, and it’s not that I hate men.

[00:03:50] I love men, you know, like I’ve, you know, I’ve worked with men and I love working

[00:03:54] Karin: You’re married to one.

[00:03:55] Davina: I am married to one I’m the daughter 

[00:03:57] of one, you know, but for me, it was really about when I started holding in-person. and I realized the conversations we would be having would be very different if I had men in the 

[00:04:12] room. And so it’s always about sort of thinking about not so much who’s in the room, who’s not in the room. Like I want to, I want to really call out and dial in on a specific problems of women, law, firm owners, and women law firm owners. It’s different. Women lawyers in general, you know, women lawyers in general, who might be working someplace are not going to have the same kind of questions because they’re not running a 

[00:04:34] business at least will offer business. Right. So that’s why I did that. And it’s worked out very well because people know that I’m speaking to

[00:04:42] Karin: Right. And it’s not, oh, she’s seeing 20% of things that I can take away. And then, you know, there’s 80% that could, that is more generic that could be for anyone or maybe doesn’t even apply to me. It’s all specifically for. The kind of thing I’m doing today and stuff that I can apply to the way I’m building this as a business today and over the next, you know, future of this, of this business.

[00:05:08] I think that’s really important because think people do go into it with this idea of fear and that if they go too small, that first of all, there are lots of women law firm owners out there, not just women lawyers, but people who women. Owning law firms. And every time I work with a woman owned law firm, it’s a different, completely different experience than working with a law firms that are owned by men.

[00:05:34] And they just have a different approach. They have a different approach to business and they have a different approach with their clients. So everything needs to be set up in a different way. Yes. Yes.

[00:05:44] Davina: and their team. Yeah, definitely.

[00:05:46] Karin: they also typically the core of the firm and their business is different than how a man is approaching the, the overall experience, what their goals are, what the reason for even having the firm to begin with why they became a lawyer, it’s all different women are different creatures.

[00:06:03] So of course, when you set up a law firm or a business or a combination, It’s going to be a different experience than for men. So with that in mind, these women are coming to you and they’re seeking you out. And they’re asking you all these questions because they see you as the success story and you then start talking to them about some of the mistakes that they’re making.

[00:06:26] And so tell me what, what some of these mistakes are that they’re making, especially with their content more.

[00:06:32] Davina: Okay. Great. Great. So wrote a book on the subject of marketing and it is one of the series. My wealthy, there you go. I’m wealthy or that got it behind me. And you 

[00:06:41] shut up. Thanks. Thanks for the plug there. And for my wealthy woman, lawyer’s

[00:06:44] guide to LA. Marketing and the virtual age. Right? So I wrote this as one in a series of books, I’ll also be writing other books.

[00:06:52] I have one coming out soon, a different topic, also wealthy woman, lawyer, sky. But as part of that, I try to demystify marketing because I find so many business owners. have a lot of fear around marketing. A lot of attorneys, women law, firm owners have some fear around barking. They don’t like it.

[00:07:11] Especially in this day and age, we see so much on 

[00:07:13] social media. A lot of people are using social media for their marketing. Some would say your strategies and complete if you’re gone, including social media. And it requires a little bit more visibility. So you’re having to do what you and I are doing, which is having conversations publicly.

[00:07:29] So other people can hear them and listen to that or put your face out there and become more visible on video or that kind of thing. And it can feel very intimidating to a lot of people, especially. like myself who, you know, we didn’t grow up with that. That’s not who we did it for, for marketing business before you went to networking events.

[00:07:47] and so I’m like, gosh, now I got to think about, I have to be on video. So I created this little list about what I think some of their mistakes are making and when they’re approaching content marketing. And the first thing is, is the need to over-prepare is they often feel a, need a repair as attorneys.

[00:08:07] It is those details. And the details in our work really matter. They’re very important. People’s livelihoods and lives in some cases on the line. So as an attorney, the details are really important. So we are trained, our brains are trained that way to be very detail oriented. So now it comes time for us to prepare our social media.

[00:08:27] And we’re going out and we’re writing whole papers before we go get a little live webinar, you know, like we have to feel like if anybody asks us any question that we automatically have the answer to it and we can’t stumble, we can’t be wrong. We can’t do something that’s like awkward, 

[00:08:43] you know, like we just, we feel like it has to be perfect that, that perfection syndrome.

[00:08:48] And so the first mistake I see people seem to make is, is really over-preparing. Spending too much time and,

[00:08:57] Karin: And it reduces the authenticity of it. I feel like what people really want to see is the realness of it and see the behind the scenes and see where you are also struggling and, and, at least challenged by whatever this topic is that you’re talking about. And the more you talk and the more you kind of are there and present, whether you are.

[00:09:19] Dotting every I and crossing every T you’re there and you’re top of mind. And when you are too perfect, it’s suspect, you know, it’s like when you read and you come across an Amazon product and it has 5 million, five star reviews, it’s like, 

[00:09:37] Davina: Yeah. 

[00:09:38] Karin: one person that would didn’t like it. I don’t know.

[00:09:42] Davina: Yeah. Yeah, exactly. even in this book that I wrote, it’s super like I’m, I’m a professor and I’m a trained editor and writer. And even in this book, it was like, it’s very vulnerable to write a book and put it out there. And when I first seen it happen, when I got it, it would all go onto proofing doc, press, whatever I got it, open it, somebody had made a change that there was a typo.

[00:10:02] Right there, the table of contents. And I’m like, oh my God. And freaking out, like, and I start going through it, looking for all the typos and it that’s, that’s the kind of thing we get into our head 

[00:10:13] about is, it’s really not like what’s important is the message and the people that the message is meant for we’ll we’ll see that.

[00:10:20] And they’ll, they’ll realize, you know, in the big scheme of things, this is not that big 

[00:10:24] of a deal. Right.

[00:10:25] So that’s number one.

[00:10:27] Karin: So step one, 

[00:10:27] take a deep breath and just get out there and be a little imperfect because that’s what people want to see that you’re a human and, you know, not so much that you’re kind of stumbling and making a giant disaster, but just a little, just a 

[00:10:42] little imperfect. 

[00:10:43] Davina: Yeah. Yeah.

[00:10:45] It’s okay. If you come up and you mess up, it’s all 

[00:10:48] right. It’ll, it’ll 

[00:10:49] be 

[00:10:49] fine. All right. So the second thing I wrote these down, just so that I wouldn’t 

[00:10:52] forget to the order rather then was try and do everything themselves 

[00:10:56] instead of hiring experts.

[00:10:57] Oh my.

[00:10:57] goodness. Listen. The amount of. Content let me just say that he can feel, intimidating when you’re on social media, Instagram has triggered particularly triggering to me because of comparisonitis. 

[00:11:09] Yeah, 

[00:11:10] you’re triggering and you’re seeing all these great things and you’re going, oh my God, I need to get up and not be hus.

[00:11:14] I need to start hustling because all these people are ahead of me on the hustle. And if you’re looking for Instagram, Facebook, LinkedIn, YouTube, whatever. There simply aren’t enough hours in the day to do 

[00:11:25] it all. And you’re not supposed 

[00:11:26] to because you really need to be looking as a business owner at the highest and best use of your time.

[00:11:32] The highest and best use of your time is not coming up with a caption for your 

[00:11:37] Instagram or scheduling posts on your Instagram or, you know, editing your video. Oh my gosh. If I ever have to edit a 

[00:11:45] video, it’s really not talking about it. Like there’s certain things that they would never get done if they were left to me to 

[00:11:52] do them because they’re not my wheelhouse.

[00:11:54] I don’t like 

[00:11:54] them. So surround yourself with people who are there to make you look good and not I’ll use the example of my podcast team really quick. My podcast team, for the last three years, they have just done a really great job in helping me. Manage all the details of my podcast. So I literally show up and talk with people, which is my favorite part of it. And then they’re doing the other things are helping me get good gas books. They’re helping me. They send gifts out to my prospective speakers. They, you know, edit everything, they write, show notes, all of 

[00:12:27] that. So if you’re sitting there thinking that I’m doing it and you’re feeling bad about yourself, because you’re not able to do what I’m able to do, 

[00:12:33] that’s why it’s, because It’s not me. It’s a whole bunch of 

[00:12:36] great people. 

[00:12:37] Karin: And they, they get you to the idea to the completion point and, Seth Goden, one of my marketing favorite geniuses, he talks a lot about shipping and by shipping, he means if you had a product that you actually had to get into a box and ship it, which we don’t, we are service-based so shipping.

[00:12:57] Getting to a point of completion, finishing that project, finishing the case, whatever that point of completion is, but people get stuck right before the idea of shipping. And then they think that the idea and drafting the idea and kind of getting it to 80% is done, which it’s not. And you have to get to that.

[00:13:16] Whatever is going to get you to that shipping. Is what needs to happen. And so I also have people who helped me with the podcast and I knew coming in because I had done just a fun podcast on the side years ago, and I knew how much work it was. And so I said, if I’m going to do this and on a professional level, I absolutely cannot do it on myself.

[00:13:34] And so I knew coming in, I needed to have a producer, and that was going to be part of the way that this was going to ship. If I wanted this to happen, I might be excited about it in the first month or two, which actually wasn’t even the case because the first month or two is so much more work when you’re like getting all the pieces together to launch.

[00:13:51] But then the idea is that this brings in more work or more traffic or more of something. And you should not have time to sit and edit your podcast and to book the guests and to produce those show. Shownotes that, that is not what you are doing this for. You’re not doing this so that you can have the fun of editing a podcast.

[00:14:11] Davina: So you can get yourself out another job when you can already do all the jobs that are on your

[00:14:16] plate right now. So that, the thing with marketing. Is that getting surrounding yourself with experts, you’re an expert in. Field and you may have, so for me, I have a lot of I’m fortunate. I mean, I’m belonged career.

[00:14:29] So I’ve developed a lot of skills over the course of my career. And there are a lot of things that I capable of doing and I can’t do, but the more of those good things, the things I’m good at that I take on the less opportunity I have to focus on. A great 

[00:14:44] app. What fulfills me? What fills me with 

[00:14:45] joy?

[00:14:46] Right? So hire people to help you. You want people to hire you as a legal expert instead of going to legal zoom 

[00:14:54] or getting some other sort of thing, you know, respect people at other professions by inviting them in as the experts, they are treating them because I guarantee you, they know a lot of stuff about their field of expertise that you don’t know, and you don’t need to go get a whole another degree, your 

[00:15:09] education. 

[00:15:09] Karin: Right. And I feel like it’s really a sign of success when you are rising to the level that you are bringing in those experts to raise you up to the next level. So when you’re surrounded, like you said, by those experts, Get things done and do things at a level that you wouldn’t even do yourself.

[00:15:26] And then it raises you to that level of expertise and boosts your own expertise and you just keep rising because of it. So it’s yet another sign of that success and building yourself up to be that wealthy law firm owner.

[00:15:40] Davina: Yeah. Yeah. so overestimating how much their content is 

[00:15:44] being seen 

[00:15:45] by others. this.

[00:15:46] one is something that I don’t think people. Really realize that they’re, that they’re doing that mistake just because we’re seeing our content everywhere and obsessing over it and looking at it all the time doesn’t mean that we’re getting that many other people’s eyes or ears on the content or putting things out there.

[00:16:05] And so repurpose, repurpose, repurpose, re-purpose use that, get it everywhere. Because three months from now a whole different group of people are going to be engaging with your content and you want to make sure that they are those wonderful things that you’ve done. So you don’t have to create content every stinking day of the week to try to like get stuff out there.

[00:16:24] You can create content in bulk and then. Repurposed and rerun and reshared in different platforms in different 

[00:16:32] ways. 

[00:16:33] Karin: and if the 

[00:16:33] content is really good quality to begin with. So I think that’s where the first step is to make sure that you are, when you’re putting the effort in to create that content, whether it’s a blog post or a podcast episode, when you. Make it really high quality and put the thought into it and realize that, okay, this is something that I want to ideally be evergreen, that we could come back and revisit.

[00:16:58] I had some blog posts that I wrote on Lawyerist 10 years ago that talk about the basics of marketing and the basics of how you set up a marketing plan that are still valid now because they are. Textbook articles. And so, as long as it’s quality stuff, you should be able to come back to it. So you need to start with making sure that you’re putting out 

[00:17:20] good. 

[00:17:21] Davina: right. 

[00:17:21] Absolutely. 

[00:17:22] Karin: And Google cares about that too. And Google knows whether it’s quality by how much people visit it. And so, you have to make sure that you’re putting that time and make it really great quality, and then you can come back to it over time. And I have often come back to those. And updated it and changed it a little bit and, you know, just 

[00:17:40] made it a little more 

[00:17:41] fresh. 

[00:17:42] Yeah. But then it’s still at the core, the same basic ideas. And you can continue to make that a core of your message, but also not have to reinvent the wheel 

[00:17:52] every. 

[00:17:53] Davina: Yeah. And when you’re working with a team, you accumulating those intellectual property assets. Over over time and accumulating them in a way where you can, when you’re bringing a new team member on board, you’re switching service providers to help you, being able to just share all that and say, look, that library adds up over time.

[00:18:11] And now, now your, your messages, all your core themes and your. Or in that content and you can give it to them and go here, repurpose them and stuff. I know some of my blogs have been repurposed over and over again by people. When I’m on board, I’m like go to my blogs 

[00:18:26] and, you know, like take some of that and create a carousel out of it or 

[00:18:29] something. And I don’t really, I don’t walk actively anymore because I’ve podcasts and we use the transcripts for that, you know, for SEO for my site, but all of that content. It’s still usable and you don’t have to be the one going back to our last one. You don’t have 

[00:18:44] to get lunch to repurpose all that either.

[00:18:47] You don’t 

[00:18:47] have to make 

[00:18:47] it. Perfect. 

[00:18:48] Karin: And on the same note it’s important to go back and make sure that it is some good stuff, because over the years and years that I’ve been putting content out there, there’s some where I look at it, I’m like, oh, that was maybe okay. Six years ago, but we don’t really say that or do it that way anymore.

[00:19:02] So get rid of it. And Google doesn’t want to see your blog bulked up with stuff that nobody wants to see either. So make sure you’re going through and doing a content. Every couple of years or so, and get rid of the stuff that is, kind of bulking it up unnecessarily. that’s such a good point to make.

[00:19:18] I don’t hear a lot of people talking about that. It’s very often, I, I love talking about kind of the value of the content and, and repurposing it. It’s like, you know, it’s like a good thing for earth day.

[00:19:30] Davina: Exactly. It’s, it’s very, that’s very in 

[00:19:32] right now and your sustainability and all that. We have a problem with the supply 

[00:19:36] chain, all of those things. So we’re just on we’re on trend. Uh, Karen we’re on trend. 

[00:19:41] Karin: Okay, let’s talk about, uh, what you’re reading or the book that you have to recommend

[00:19:46] Davina: well the, the issue that I have is that I’m always 

[00:19:49] reading and I’m reading usually two or three at one 

[00:19:52] time, because I’ll have something on audible and then I’ll have something on Kendall and I’ll have you can’t see all the bookshelves 

[00:19:58] around me, but I have three bookshelves in my office. So, I’m going to share with you one of my favorite books and that is the dichotomy of leader.

[00:20:07] The dichotomy of leadership is by Jocko, Willink and Leif Babin. And they are the authors of extreme ownership, which is a popular book. You may have heard of that was their first book. And it’s like as big as a phone book, that thing is, it’s a road tone. It’s a real rate, but I like extreme ownership, but I was introduced to the two of them by their second book, which is the dichotomy of leadership.

[00:20:29] So the concept of extreme ownership is that. these two guys who wrote those are, uh, former Navy seals 

[00:20:36] so what they do now is they have a, business consulting company and they help. Corporations, improve their leadership. And so what they’ve done is they wrote the book extreme ownership, and it’s about applying the principles of the Navy seals to 

[00:20:52] business in terms of leadership.

[00:20:54] And they say there are no bad teams, only bad leaders. And it’s really about you taking ownership. You are a hundred percent accountable and responsible for your team and the outcome that you achieve with your team. So if you’re not getting the outcome you desire, there’s not, there’s an issue with you as a 

[00:21:12] leader, not necessarily with your team and it may be your team.

[00:21:16] And. So there may be somebody on your team. You need to let go, 

[00:21:19] but if you haven’t let them go yet, that’s your, that’s your 

[00:21:22] issue as a leader? So that’s what I love about extreme ownership and that I cognitive leadership. I think what happened is so many people read the book and took it to extreme. and 

[00:21:32] so 

[00:21:33] Karin: Well, 

[00:21:33] Davina: took like, I’m responsible for everything.

[00:21:36] Oh my God. You know, and there’s a lot of, you know, whipping themselves and 

[00:21:39] whatever. So I think they had to come out with them and you go to them. Okay, let me, 

[00:21:43] Val, is this a little.

[00:21:43] bit, you know, like it was 

[00:21:44] not, let’s not, like beat ourselves over the head, if we’re not 

[00:21:48] perfect and doing it, so they wrote this and it’s, and so they, they talk about the ballot.

[00:21:53] So they take their principles, they talked about extreme ownership, and then they talk about the flip side and sort of there’s, there’s a balance to it. Right. so. I just love and they, uh, they’ve had other, at least another books since then, I think maybe a couple, but I just really like it. They T you know, they tell the story from their perspective.

[00:22:10] They’ll give you examples of their time in, in, country, in the

[00:22:14] military. Uh, and the action, something that actually happened where the principle They use that as an example of the principle, and then they tell you the principal and then they give you an example as applied to business 

[00:22:26] through some of 

[00:22:26] their clients. And so it’s just 

[00:22:28] really a

[00:22:28] good, very, Yeah. that’s a 

[00:22:29] Karin: love hearing the stories like that. I mean, you know, it’s like anytime you’re reading good stuff, there’s always some good stories behind it. I love Malcolm Gladwell for business, just because he’s such a great storyteller and it makes it so much more memorable when you can visualize the concept in, in the terms of that story.

[00:22:47] And then I, you know, I can repeat his stories all day long. that sounds excellent. I like the idea of the balanced version too.

[00:22:55] Davina: Yeah. Yeah. That’s how I came into. It was the extreme was the dichotomy of leadership because I looked into stream ownership and I’m like, okay, this is going to be war and peace. And I’m not sure I have the time to commit to it. So I, I went in that and I, and I, and I really loved that. It’s shorter, but I really love that. And then, uh, I did go back and read extreme ownership and kids. I was compelled after reading it to

[00:23:14] go, okay, let 

[00:23:14] me go back and, and dig into

[00:23:16] That Yeah. 

[00:23:16] So. 

[00:23:16] Karin: sounds excellent. I think that ties in perfectly with this idea of especially women law, firm owners, and kind of finding their place in, some of these mistakes they might be making, and then also just in developing their own firm and, and figuring, figuring all these things out, but also realizing how to address their client’s needs in the right way with their team and making sure their team is 

[00:23:39] all in the right place and all of that.

[00:23:40] Davina: Yeah, it’s a big challenge, the team, the team piece, but when you’re scaling your locker business, the team piece of it is a poor 

[00:23:49] challenge 

[00:23:49] Karin: yeah. And it continues to be, I like it, it never really goes away. You know, you find just the right thing. And then all of a sudden somebody has a life change. So then you have to like, make, make other changes, but you know, it’s just dealing with humans. That’s just kind of how things 

[00:24:05] go. I think. 

[00:24:07] Davina: No, I think, yeah. It’s, I think it’s important to understand the difference to. And leadership versus 

[00:24:11] management And what your role is. And so if you have a small law firm and you’re not yet, you haven’t yet layer hierarchy in it, you may be both. 

[00:24:21] You may be the leader in the manager, but as your firm grows bigger and bigger, you’re going to then need to cultivate leaders on different levels.

[00:24:30] And some of those may be managers, managers are more, the day-to-day operations, making sure things get done. And leadership is really about. The inspirational and creating that vision, holding that vision, inspiring people to galvanize around that vision. And so that’s where a lot of work a lot. We do a lot of work with my clients in, in really rising up as leaders because they’re already natural leaders. But just putting a little fuel to that fire and giving you a lot of 

[00:24:59] clarity, right. 

[00:25:00] Karin: Yeah, it’s hard to not jump down in and just get involved and get things done. When you see something that needs to be done to, I mean, I have the same problem myself where it’s like, oh, Do that in five seconds and it’s never five seconds. And in those 15 minutes that I thought it was going to be five seconds.

[00:25:17] I could have done some other significant thing that, also didn’t disempower my, the person who was working for me. So it’s hard. It’s 

[00:25:26] Davina: Yes, it is. It is What I say is that as high achieving women, what got us here is not what it’s going to get us to 

[00:25:32] the next. 

[00:25:33] Because it’s high achieving women. We got here our own willpower and our own late night studying and taking tests and applying for the business license.

[00:25:43] Not we don’t all these things that got ourselves here, but if we want to next level our business and really that point where you’re scaling it from. Halfway into a million and beyond to 2 million, 5 million is where you’re really having to layer in and rely on it. You’re not going to know 

[00:25:59] you can, you can have all the DX control of all the 

[00:26:02] details, or you can have growth, but you cannot 

[00:26:04] have

[00:26:04] both. 

[00:26:05] Karin: Yeah. And it’s a different business model. Once you get past that, you know, one man show versus the whole team and a company, that’s a completely different business model. And you have to figure out how to, you know, clone yourself and figure out how to get all those people in the right place so that you aren’t doing every little step.

[00:26:24] And that is it’s, it’s a lot, there’s a lot. 

[00:26:28] So. 

[00:26:29] Davina: And we, we’re not, none of us are, none of us are born out alone knowing how 

[00:26:33] to do anything, you know, like, so it’s a skill, like any other skill that you 

[00:26:38] can learn. 

[00:26:38] This is 

[00:26:39] Karin: Right. And surrounding yourself with the women who have gone through that, finding those success stories and connecting with all of that is, is really the way to do it in, you know, how long our lifetime is. We have to, you know, if, if we had like five lifetimes, we could probably try to figure it all out on our.

[00:26:56] I don’t know why you would want to, when you can go in connect all of, you know, to all of the communities out there and all the resources, and that’s the way you do it in a single lifetime is to really expedite your own process and your own success by finding and gathering all of the details and the resources and community that are 

[00:27:15] out. Like your book and your podcast and you know, everything that you’re putting out there. Thank you so much for being here. Devina. Frederick is the founder and CEO of wealthy women lawyer. It’s a great podcast. I highly recommend it and we will also link to her current book and the future book in the show notes.

[00:27:32] Thank you again for being here. I really 

[00:27:34] appreciate your time. 

[00:27:35] Davina: Thank you, Karen. I really enjoy it.

[00:27:37] 

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